As the team continues to sink on the field and shrink in the MLB standings, Luke Jones and Nestor assess the real talent of the Baltimore Orioles and wonder what the future of franchise will look like at trade deadline on August 3rd, And, of course, when “ownership” will get involved in this mess and relieve Mike Elias of his duties, which feels inevitable.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ current state and future prospects, focusing on the trade deadline and the performance of key players like Adley Rutschman, Gunnar Henderson, and Jackson Holliday. They highlighted the team’s struggles, including a 7-game losing streak and a record of 10 games under 500. They debated the potential trades of these players, the impact of ownership, and the need for a new general manager. They also discussed the broader issues of team management, ownership involvement, and the challenges of rebuilding a competitive baseball team.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Plan and execute the closing of this episode by giving Luke his ‘parting shot’ before transitioning into the wrap-up segment ahead of the next live recording together.
• [ ] Write an article this week exploring the scenario in which Orioles ownership is more engaged behind the scenes and discusses potentially shaking up the young core, using insights from this discussion.

Orioles’ Current State and Upcoming Events

• Nestor Aparicio discusses the absence of Leonard and his upcoming trip to Philadelphia for the All-Star game.
• Nestor mentions the Maryland Treasures giveaway and the support from GBMC and Farnham and Durham.
• The Orioles’ home schedule and the upcoming series against the Kansas City Royals and the Cubs are highlighted.
• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss the challenges faced by the Orioles, including pitching issues and the need for a trade deadline strategy.

Reflecting on Past Performance and Future Plans

• Nestor recalls the excitement two years ago when the Orioles were 20 games over 500 and the untouchable status of players like Gunner Henderson and Grayson Rodriguez.
• The current state of the team, heading towards 10 games under 500 at the All-Star break, is discussed.
• Nestor and Luke talk about the importance of managing assets and making strategic decisions at the trade deadline.
• The conversation touches on the potential value of players like Adley Ruchman and Gunner Henderson and the need to reassess the team’s future direction.

Ownerership and Management Challenges

• Nestor expresses frustration with the current ownership and management, questioning their ability to turn the team around.
• The discussion includes the potential impact of the upcoming CBA and the need for a new general manager.
• Nestor and Luke debate the effectiveness of Mike Elias and the challenges he faces in making the right trade decisions.
• The conversation highlights the need for a clear plan and leadership from the ownership group to address the team’s issues.

Player Performance and Trade Assets

• Nestor and Luke discuss the performance of key players like Adley Ruchman, Gunner Henderson, and Jackson Holiday.
• The potential trade value of these players and the impact of their performance on the team’s future is evaluated.
• The conversation includes the importance of making the right trade decisions to improve the team’s prospects.
• Nestor and Luke consider the potential impact of trading key players on the team’s long-term success.

Ownership’s Role and Future Plans

• Nestor and Luke discuss the role of ownership in making key decisions and the potential impact of new leadership.
• The conversation includes the need for a clear plan and strategy to address the team’s issues.
• Nestor expresses frustration with the current state of the team and the lack of progress in recent years.
• The discussion highlights the importance of ownership’s involvement and support in turning the team around.

Impact of Trade Deadline and Future Draft

• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential impact of the trade deadline on the team’s future prospects.
• The conversation includes the importance of making the right trade decisions to improve the team’s long-term success.
• Nestor and Luke consider the potential impact of the upcoming draft and the need for a new general manager to make the right decisions.
• The discussion highlights the importance of a clear plan and strategy to address the team’s issues and improve its performance.

Ownerership’s Commitment and Future Investment

• Nestor and Luke discuss the commitment of ownership to invest in the team and its future.
• The conversation includes the need for ownership to support the team’s efforts to improve its performance.
• Nestor expresses frustration with the lack of progress and the need for a clear plan and strategy from ownership.
• The discussion highlights the importance of ownership’s involvement and support in turning the team around.

Potential Trade Scenarios and Player Value

• Nestor and Luke discuss potential trade scenarios and the value of key players like Adley Ruchman and Gunner Henderson.
• The conversation includes the importance of making the right trade decisions to improve the team’s long-term success.
• Nestor and Luke consider the potential impact of trading key players on the team’s future prospects.
• The discussion highlights the need for a clear plan and strategy to address the team’s issues and improve its performance.

Impact of Injuries and Player Development

• Nestor and Luke discuss the impact of injuries on key players and the need for effective player development.
• The conversation includes the importance of addressing the team’s injury issues to improve its performance.
• Nestor and Luke consider the potential impact of player development on the team’s long-term success.
• The discussion highlights the need for a clear plan and strategy to address the team’s issues and improve its performance.

Ownerership’s Vision and Long-Term Strategy

• Nestor and Luke discuss the vision and long-term strategy of ownership to improve the team’s performance.
• The conversation includes the need for a clear plan and strategy from ownership to address the team’s issues.
• Nestor expresses frustration with the lack of progress and the need for a clear vision and strategy from ownership.
• The discussion highlights the importance of ownership’s involvement and support in turning the team around.

Nestor Aparicio 0:01
Welcome home. We are W N S T A M 1570 Towson Baltimore. We are Baltimore Posit. I’m wearing my Raskin Global gear here. Leonard’s been AWOL here last couple weeks. We’re wishing him a get well soon. He’s been hanging out, but he’ll be back next week. Promises, a promise, just like I’m Philadelphia next week for the Constitutional Christ, excuse me, the All-Star game of 250 No, not all baseball, oh, but right, it’s the 30th anniversary of Cal Ripken with the elbow to the Roberto Hernandez. There, all that’s brought to you by the Maryland Lottery. We get together on Friday, we will have some All-Star game memories. Luke will be joining me at Fade Lee’s. We have the Maryland Treasures to give away. Also, our friends at GBMC, putting us out on the road, and Farnham and Durham are keeping us very comfortable this week. We had Zach at a Green Mountain Station two weeks ago. We’re back at Fade Lee’s this week, and if your AC blows up, my God, they can help you like instantly. Same day service, 410 36777 hopefully. we’re through the 102 degree days and on to some 80 degree baseball. The Orioles are home all week. Camden Yards, I will be at the All Star game next week. Luke’s on vacay. We’re meeting one last time at Fayette Lease on Friday. The Kansas City Royals will be in town. The Cubs are in town. Luke, we’ve talked about all the problems, the pitching, the World Cup, you know, all the stuff that bakes into this, but where Mike Elias has to be, as the guy still operating this for now, and you know, I’ve seen some other not widely read columnists behind paywalls writing that, like, they need to fire him if they’re going to make this, I, you know, I, it is sticky thinking about the draft and the All-Star game, and what this week represents, and you getting to eat Max Pizza in Wildwood, and me getting to go to the All-Star game, pretend to be a fake media member for a couple of days, and sniff around as to what the All-Star game is going to look like here in 2013 when we get it, 2030 the value and the assets of these players, and you and I, and I held up my Maryland lottery, the horse series, and said the pitchers are like they’re all like horses, they’re assets, they’re like it’s like Preakness Week, and saying, How much more do we have on Ruchman, where are we on Henderson, I mean, holiday, which it’s he’s here, but it’s a trade asset if you’re not in love with him, and somebody else is, so this is the month to look at all this and say who’s untouchable. I remember two years ago when they were 20 games over 500 and we’re all lathered up, and Mike from Canada, who wrote me a beautiful letter that I will share with you a little later on in the segment. Two years ago, all these guys were untouchable. They were aircraft carriers, right? Gunner Henderson and Radley Ruchman and Jackson Holiday. They’re going to lead to the next, maybe they’ll resign Santander, maybe they’ll sign Corbin Byrne. I mean, all of that, and then where they are right now, which is heading on 10 games under 500 all-star break, trying to get the all-star game pro about that work stoppage at the end of the year, and managing these assets the next three or four weeks, whatever they’re going to do with it, trading deadline or not, and letting it pass, and saying none of this is for us, and we’re just going to hang in, or whatever they’re going to do, but this is a time we have to start looking at the back of the bubble gum card, Luke, and saying, what do we got here?

Nestor Aparicio 3:29
And I know you were really pissed off about it a week or two ago, you went through this and it didn’t smell good then, and now we’re into July, and you’re about to disappear. This is our sort of long-winded, let’s take a deep dive on what we actually have here, and what’s dealable, and what they can do, and should do by the end of the month to either stay in this, hang in this deal forward, but do something that looks like the next movement for their next championship, which doesn’t appear to be in 2026

Luke Jones 4:01
Yeah, it’s pretty sobering. It is when you consider where they were two years ago, three years ago. At that point in time, there was a thought of, man, look how good they are, and not even the entire young core isn’t here yet, right? I mean, that was the thought, and I said things like that. I know you said things like that at various times, a lot. Everyone did. There was a lot of excitement for they put

Nestor Aparicio 4:24
a couple of guys into the All-Star. Right? I mean, you know, Westberg, Ruchman, you know, Henderson, that felt like perennial. It felt like JJ Hardy, Adam Jones, you know. It felt like, okay, now we’re somewhere, you know.

Luke Jones 4:38
Yeah, and it just.. we’ve seen how it’s gone for two years now. That’s why it’s really tough for me to look at this team as it stands right now, which is seven games under 500 going into the final homestand before the All-Star break, and to sit here and talk about them being buyers. Now, you know, you fire off six straight wins to go into the All Star break. Game under 500 Okay, then we’ll revisit that, but until this team does something like that, it’s tough to talk in those terms, right? And that’s why I was so underwhelmed by the weekend series win in Cincinnati, because while you could have swept them, then the Reds stink. Now the record’s similar to the Orioles, but look at the last two months, they stink, so you bring it back to the present. You look at where they are right now. You ask me, in terms of, you know, what’s what’s nailed down and what’s hypothetically for sale. Look, if you’re doing your due diligence as any general manager in any situation, you should always listen, right? You should always listen to what’s out there. You never know how a team might value someone differently than you do, and it might be something that can be done that you make a move and it sets you up very well, right? I mean, look at the White Sox a couple years back, it looked like their version of what the Orioles are trying to do had crashed and burned, right? They, they had been good for a year or two, and then they were really, really bad again. And they make a big trade with Garrett Crochet, you know, they deal him to the Red Sox, and not saying that that’s the only thing that they’ve done, but look where they are right now, and look how much better they’re feeling about their direction and where they are in the Al Central, so I think it’s important to keep an open mind about everything, but well, nobody’s going to get their feelings

Nestor Aparicio 6:30
involved at this time of the year, right? Like, especially not Elias, who’s fighting for his job, and these guys have let him down in a lot of ways, as he would see it, saying, you know, this hasn’t – this has really been a tough year, like to say who has hit their potential. Sure, yeah, like any of these guys dealing, any of these guys to think like maybe Rochman, right? Ruchman, and I don’t even know that when you compare him to Bobby Witt, and we start, it starts to fall apart, right, especially as Bobby Wit’s coming to town on Friday, when you and I sit in a fatally, but the what it used to be, and what the asset was, and what the hotels on the boardwalk used to be worth, and now what they’re worth, right, like in the Monopoly game, you know, Michael Eyes might be going to jail here, you know, before it’s all over with, and I don’t know, it’s really about Araghetti, and I don’t want to be that guy that played the Jason Lock and Foreign game here at WNSD, but it really is about what ownership, how they view this, and their neophyte nature, or their over the top. I mean, haven’t heard anything good about Araghetti, and I don’t believe anything good about Rubenstein. Next time I see him, I’m going to ask him how his name got in the Epstein files. Um, but they’re running a baseball team here this month with assets and letting Elias make this call, and I think at the beginning, that’s the beginning of the beginning. Is he the right guy to be making the call? At what point do you, but he’s about to draft a whole new round of baseball players this week, too, so this is this is a really sticky month for this franchise with this labor issue with an empty stadium, an empty soul. Even you’re pissed off, Adam. This isn’t about Nasty Nestor and Free the Birds, and this is the current people, the Birdland insiders that are mad and talent that isn’t working out, and all of the stadium renovation, and money, and blah blah blah blah, like on and on and on, and their core products stinks, and I don’t know that they know how to solve it, and I don’t know that you and I are going to solve it next 20 minutes either, but like nobody feels like they’re on top of this, I don’t, I don’t have a whole lot of confidence to think like they’ve got a turnaround in them, or Money Bags is going to get up with the next Mike Elias and sell his boojah to me, that he knows what he’s doing, that this guy here, or this girl here, is Eve here, or this Mike here, this Sager, that he didn’t know what he’s doing, he’s a buffoon in that environment, he’s a buffoon. He doesn’t know his role as an owner. No one sat him down. The Whistler didn’t know his ass from his elbow, quite frankly. And for me, these are the.. this is how this is going to get decided. We could talk about Rochman taught, and we will, and who’s going to make the decision? Elias, for now, and probably not going to do much, right? Like, yeah, let’s get serious here. They’re not going to do much, are they? Are they? It doesn’t feel that way. I, that’s what I keep coming back to. I mean, and part of that

Luke Jones 9:30
is, like, what do you want to be, right? I mean, Michaelias, we’re a little over a week removed from him talking about them being buyers at the trade deadline, and look, let’s be very clear, anytime you have a team that isn’t 30 games or 20 games under 500 at this point in time in late June, you’re still going to be talking in terms of having the hope to be a buyer, throw in the

Nestor Aparicio 9:53
towel, exactly, exactly,

Luke Jones 9:55
so, but but then you also had a four game losing streak, a me. Like, literally, immediately after that happens, and, and that’s where you just look at it. If you’re Elias himself, and you know, not that I’m gonna sit here and play the violin for him, but there had to be a thought of, I just gave you guys a vote of confidence, and you go out and you lose four straight, then, like, what, what are we doing here? You know what I mean. So, but to go back to what you just said, I mean, that, that was kind of going to be my greater point. Let’s be very clear, it is rare where a team is going to quote fix itself at the trade deadline in any shape or form, right? Okay, for every CC Sabathia going to the Brewers kind of move, or Randy Johnson going to the Astros, kind of move. If

Nestor Aparicio 10:43
all they needed was a closer or a third baseman, or you know what, literally kind of look, I look at it. You wanted more depth in the bullpen, man. I’ve heard you say that in six weeks. I need more leverage, you know, like I

Luke Jones 10:57
mean, I’ll continue to say it, but yeah, but I’m just way down on the list

Nestor Aparicio 11:01
of things that are their issues right now.

Luke Jones 11:02
I mean, it’s there, but like it’s not, it’s not their exclusive issue, you know what I mean? Like, there’s just.. that’s why I kind of look at this thing, and the

Nestor Aparicio 11:10
exclusive issue is, do they have a heart and a soul and a leadership and a fire, and do they have pile divers? And is Mike Elias the pile diver, and is Michael Araghetti as the new mr. Big, is he going to be a pile diver owner in this community? And are they going to ramp up business? Are they going to ramp up baseball? Are they going to ramp up humans? Are they going to get rid of the Angelos era and Massin and all the creepitude that has lived within the DNA like termites in this organization, that have allowed it to be like this, and is anybody going to step up and make a real change in that department? I don’t think so. And for that, it leaves me wanting to watch the World Cup this week, Luke. Right, literally. And what? And wait, bye to you, and let you go on vacation, and I’m going to go up to Philadelphia and sniff the, you know, the roast pork and the cheese steaks and the pretzels, and and sniff around at what baseball smells like up there at an all-star game for a couple, three days in convention centers in the city, and the hotels, and riding shuttles, and you know, eating water, ice, water, I say it right, water,

Luke Jones 12:22
water, yeah.

Nestor Aparicio 12:23
I call Eskin, figure out how to say it this week. I should do that. Call those guys and find out, like, what’s an all-star game? What’s the value of an all-star game in Philadelphia to Philadelphia this week when they had had World Cup games in Paraguay, and France took over the other day eating Croco’s Dame. But I digress. This is really these assets in the micro over the next three four weeks. Okay, you know, I don’t think they’re going to do much. I think they’re a little frozen in the headlights. I think to your point, they still think they’re a contender, they still think they have talent, they still think that their talent’s going to show, like that’s the way they’re talking, and Albert has never want to throw anything in, because it might be the last job he gets, right? I mean, Elias is going to get fired. I’ve said that, I’ve been saying that for eight weeks, and if you’re going to fire him, fire him yesterday, and you’re like, well, we got to pick players next week, yeah. And now, now they’re really into the muck, because I don’t think they’re going to get great value out of any of this, and I don’t know, dude. I just feel like they don’t – I don’t have any confidence to think they’re not going to muck this up, all of them,

Luke Jones 13:30
in the big picture sense. I mean, I’m not going to sit here and express great confidence in anything right now, as far as it pertains to ownership. Would Elias

Nestor Aparicio 13:38
be your GM right now? Can I start with that, with right

Luke Jones 13:41
now? I mean, look, I, I think sometimes that that concept’s a little overblown, from the standpoint of he’s not going to sabotage a team, right? I mean, he’s.. I’ll continue to say there’s for even those who have been down on Elias for a couple years now, there’s still things to like. I mean, look at the Blaze Alexander trade, for example, right? I mean, go look at what Cage Stroud hasn’t done for the Diamondbacks and see what Blaze Alexander’s done for the Orioles. He’s been one of their best hitters since may 1, right? So, and let me be clear with him, pick in the next round of players, though. And for now, yes, I think so. I think so too, because Eric Getty and Rubenstein wouldn’t know that’s literally, and like, okay, could you, could you have, if you really wanted to, could you have made a move, and then you make Eve Rosenbaum or Matt Blood, or whoever, the interim general manager? It’s going to be the same thing, right? It’s not, they’re not going to zig while the organization was going to zag under Elias, right? I mean, so I’m not as concerned about that part of it, you know. And that’s not me saying that I’d keep him, you know, moving forward, but I’m not convinced he was the wrong guy for the job when he fired the manager and hid for four days last year.

Nestor Aparicio 15:00
Like to me, we’re 15 months past that, we’re a lot of losses past that, we’re a couple of Blaze Alexanders and a couple of Corbin Burns’s, and a couple, but we’re also a cupboard full of one ones, a cupboard full of one ones and one fours and one threes and one eights, and like and and Tyler O’Neill’s and money spent and just on all of it, right. So the body of work speaks for itself. I mean, I’m not going to fire Michaelias and put the flag up and put memes up and all. I’d said my piece eight weeks ago, right, but here we are. He’s picking the players, here we are, they stink here. We are he’s in charge of the trading deadline, so he is going to shape the future of this organization, even after they fire him, and they will. Well,

Luke Jones 15:54
and so you have the draft. I’m not as concerned about that, right. For one thing, I mean, you know, they.. it’s not as though everything they did was horrible in that, in that department, right? I mean, I’ll continue to say, whenever the Michaelias era ends, whether it’s going to be in August, whether it’s going to be in October, or whether he sticks around for another year or two, and that surprises everyone, right? I mean, I will continue to say I will view that through two different lens, one being where he, where the organization was in November of 2018 up until they were ready to contend, the building, the rebuilding part of it, and then I will view it through the lens of what he did when they were, when they had built something, and when it was time to then go for it and be a contender, right? I still to this day will have higher marks on the first half of that tenure than what we’ve seen since then, and if you recall, that was kind of, you know, the trade deadline of 2023 that was kind of the first time for me where I kind of looked at Elias and said, not, not, not your best work, right? I mean, so, so, so, looking at

Nestor Aparicio 17:13
Flaherty,

Luke Jones 17:14
yeah, yeah, Flaherty, and what Fuji, the reliever that they got, who wasn’t even on the postseason roster, and obviously that was, you know, they didn’t throw

Nestor Aparicio 17:25
strike one,

Luke Jones 17:26
they didn’t know they were going to lose Felix Bautista, but even before they lost Batista, there was a thought of, you know, can you add another high level, they

Nestor Aparicio 17:33
were good, man, like that was fun,

Luke Jones 17:35
and that, but but that right there, what was the rationale at that point in time, it was, you don’t want to trade away all these great prospects you have. They ended up hugging their prospects for the most part and holding on to mostly everyone. They traded some, right? I mean, they made the Burns deal, they, they made the Kyle, the Kyle Stowers and Norby for Trevor Rogers deal, which two years later I think it’s worked out fine. They

Nestor Aparicio 18:02
traded the prospects they didn’t, that he didn’t like. That’s fine,

Luke Jones 18:05
right? Exactly. So, so, anyway, you know, and I’m kind of, and guys have a block

Nestor Aparicio 18:10
too, like Ortiz was blocked

Luke Jones 18:12
for me. What they’ve done down below on the farm, I’m not, I don’t have so much angst that Mike Elias is going to quote ruin this draft, right? I just don’t, and some of that is also go look at some of the picks the Orioles made, and look at what some of the alternatives were. For every okay, you could have taken Bobby Witt and said Adley, Rachman, and going again, gone against the grain of the consensus in the industry at that point in time, but go look at the other players that were picked around Colton Cowser, go look at some of those others, you’ll find that there are lots of players that don’t work out. This isn’t like the NFL draft, right, where, where if you bust on a top five or a top 10 pick, like that’s a really bad boy. I

Nestor Aparicio 18:52
did baseball for years, where Jeffrey Hammonds was the only player that ever right put a uniform on,

Luke Jones 18:58
and he was so highly touted, if you recall, what kind of prospect he was, and Jeffrey Hammonds ended up having a decent major league career, but he was never what anyone thought he was going to become, right? I mean, so, so there’s that. He’s going to be

Nestor Aparicio 19:10
Willie Mays. Yeah,

Luke Jones 19:12
oh yeah, I mean that expectation, but, but the idea, like that, he was going to be Eric Davis. There were lots of people outside of the Orioles, you know, outside of the organization, who thought he was plenty of trade

Nestor Aparicio 19:22
value, and I’m asking you right now, what is Adley Ruchman’s value? What is Gunner Henderson’s value? If they were to deal them, they’re not going to deal them, just.. and then what are they going to deal, and then what are they going to do, and then what’s the real plan here? And it always comes back to this with Elias, who’s been hiding from me for seven years like a coward, and everybody else, what’s the plan? What are you guys doing? This is a good time to ask that right now. What are you doing?

Luke Jones 19:48
Well, and that’s, and that’s where I think it’s going to be very interesting. For I’ll continue to say, I don’t think a lot’s going to happen at the trade deadline. I disagree. I don’t think they’re going to be. Big time buyer, and I also don’t think they’re going to be a big time seller. I mean, I, I look at two assets right now. If they’re going to sell, like let’s say they continue, not even that they crash and burn, let’s just say they continue to play 500 ish, which is what they’ve done for the last six or seven weeks, right? They were eight games under going into that end game home stand, may 22 and they’re seven games under now, going into the final homestand in the second week of July. Right, I mean, they’ve been 500 a 500 team for the last six weeks, seven weeks, you know, one game better than 500 right? To be accurate, so that’s where I look at this and say, okay, I don’t think you’re necessarily going to trade anyone that’s under team control through next year, and Ruchman’s the most notable in that bunch. I mean, even Gunner Henderson, you’re still having a couple more years of control, right? I mean, Gunner’s not going to be a free agent after next season, putting aside the CBA and lockout, and who knows what’s going to happen with that, right? Because don’t have it been hard on him, dude, if he was a Met, he’d be getting green for Baltimore Sanders. I think fans have been hard on him at this point. I mean, okay, it’s not New York, it’s not Philadelphia, but at the same time, I don’t think anyone’s sitting there blindly supporting Gunner Henderson, that that this season has been remotely acceptable, right? I mean, I don’t think I don’t think Orioles fans are are in that boat at this point in time. Well, they

Nestor Aparicio 21:23
boot the team last week, right? Yeah, but that was a move in a, like, whoo, you know? I mean,

Luke Jones 21:28
well, I mean, I’ve said this for a while. I mean, it’s forget about you and me, right? Just Orioles fans, and Orioles fans who have been engaged, and I don’t just mean blindly supporting, right? I don’t mean like someone that’s shilling for the, let’s just say, people who listen

Nestor Aparicio 21:43
to us. How about that?

Luke Jones 21:44
People that watch every night, people that go to a handful of games a year, even if they’re not, you know, a season ticket holder. People that are invested, at least emotionally and from a time standpoint, are invested in this team. There is a lot of disdain and disgust with where they are right now. I think there is a feeling of betrayal, and that sounds a little dramatic, but I think it’s looking through the lens of what Elias and Sigma Idel and this front office was selling when they arrived and understanding, hey, we’re going to be really bad for a few years, like, and frankly, that’s part of the plan, you know. They, they didn’t say it quite in those terms, but we all knew what was happening, and the thought was, okay, we can accept being lousy in 19 and 20 and 21 if that means the next 678, years after that. Look, that doesn’t mean 100 win season every year, that doesn’t mean going to three world series, but it means being competitive, moving in the right direction, feeling stable in success, right? Whether that means in any given year 87 wins or 90, or maybe a big time year that goes your way, 98 wins, or 101 which they, they did, but for it to be about two calendar years of feeling like stable success, playoff disappointment aside, for it to then go in this direction that it’s gone for two calendar years now. I think there’s very much a sense of, you guys didn’t hold up your end of the bargain here, you know, you, you were still charging, you’re still charging major league prices for a less than major league product for a few years there, and obviously the COVID season, kind of, you know, you throw that one out in terms of ticket sales and all that, but the idea wasn’t distinct for three years, and then you’re good for two years, and then you’re very mid after that, like that wasn’t that’s not what you guys were selling, so I think that’s where fans feel very much a sense of frustration, and like you guys didn’t hold up your end of this, so I think that’s where people are really ticked, but to go back to your point, you know, your question, as far as where they are right now, where are they going to me? I look at two assets that are the most interesting at the trade deadline. If we’re to assume that they’re not within sniffing distance of 500 like they’re not one game under 500 on July 30-first or August, what’s gonna take a hell of a week for that to happen? Right? Yeah, I mean, and that was again, that’s kind of my point about this red series, right? That was a chance to win, you know, finally have your first four game winning streak and your first three games sweep in over a month, and to build some momentum to, and then you lost on Sunday, right? A very winnable game, and that’s, you don’t, you’re running out of time to drop games like that, right? I mean, you still have time, but you’re running out of time to drop games like that, where it’s a lesser team, and I do think the Orioles are a better team than the Reds, even though the records right now are very similar, but the last two months the Orioles have been a better team than them, but you know, I just, I look at this and I just say one. What moves can you make that are really going to move the needle to in order to make those moves? What do you have to give up? You know, this farm system is not the same that it was three or four years ago, in terms of, you know, shiny prospects that are really, really appealing. I mean, and don’t get me wrong, it’s, you know, you have Trey Gibson, you have Nate George, you have like some different guys that that you can look at right now. They’ve got some, they’ve got some interesting arms at Triple A and Double A. I do think the state of the pitching in their system has gotten better.

Luke Jones 25:36
Now that doesn’t mean that they’re going to become the Atlanta Braves in the next five years, and you know, in terms of, I mean, the Braves of the 90s, I’m not saying that they had those kind of guys in their system, but there has been, and you’ve heard me say this, the last couple years, they have made more of a concerted effort to add pitching to their system, but the point is, are there moves to be made on the open market that are really going to move the needle to the degree that they’re going to need it to, to really put themselves in position to make the playoffs. I don’t know,

Nestor Aparicio 26:07
and the deal out of the bottom of their hand, yeah, deal out of their organization at this point. That’s what I mean, like, and it’s not to say that it makes sense, dude. Like, I, how are we going to go on the radio the day after that and make sense of that? I mean, seriously,

Luke Jones 26:20
I mean, and that’s the thing, I mean, like, are you going to be a buyer if you’re five games under 500 on august 3? I mean, and look, I’ll hear it, I get it, the American League wild card picture is blah, I get it, I understand that, but at the same time, that doesn’t mean that you should start making moves that aren’t going to be ideal for the next few years, for a blast situation, right? I mean, I, I just, this team is blah, if we’re going to talk, you know, like that’s that’s what it is. So, and on the flip side, even Adley Ruchman, yes, he only has one more year left at the same time, if you make the decision that you’re going to trade him, and if you’ve exhausted all efforts to try to sign him, if you want to sign him, I still, I still think that’s debatable, whether you want to do that, because yes, he’s had a nice bounce back year, but I’m also not going to ignore the previous year and a half, right? I think that was the thing that got the Orioles in trouble when they extended Chris Davis, right,

Nestor Aparicio 27:20
dude. I don’t think the last year and a half even matters. It’s the next three years that matter what you believe in, that right? Like, that’s..

Luke Jones 27:25
I mean, he’s gonna be.. he’s 28 years old already. He has been on the IL what, four different times over the last 13 months, I think. I could.. and

Nestor Aparicio 27:35
you got another catcher, so you deal him august 3. What do you get for him? Seriously, what do you.. what are you getting at this? I think

Luke Jones 27:41
Adley Ruchman’s getting you nice, I think. Well, then you better consider dealing him. Then

Nestor Aparicio 27:45
what you’re saying to me is you better consider signing him or dealing in one way or another in the winter. 78 million into the other catcher at this point, who’s hitting the hell out of the ball, right? So there’s a thought that you could live with that,

Luke Jones 28:00
but if I’m Araghetti, I’m not that specific move, I’m not necessarily making Michaelias, I’m not letting Michaelias necessarily make that move, that might, that might be if I’m, if I’m Araghetti, if I’m ownership, and I’m looking at this through the lens of he’s my all-star, by the way, this week, too, right, sure, but but if I’m, if I’m looking at it through the lens of I am most likely moving on from this regime at whether it’s the day we fall out of the playoff race or whatever, whatever the timing is, or it’s the day after the season ends, right, whatever you decide to do, I might look at that through the lens of that Adley, Ruchman chip, that can be one of the first things that our new general manager does, in terms of maybe he makes, maybe he says, ‘Hey, we need to resign this guy, and we do that, or we move on, and we trade them at that next winter, because you know, obviously, if we’re resetting our front office, we’re not necessarily saying, ‘Oh, we’re trying to win a World Series, realistically trying to win a World Series in 2027 right? It might be you take a half step back to hopefully take two steps forward over the next year or two. I don’t know, right? There, there’s lots of.. there’s lots.. there are lots of outcomes in between going for it and saying, “Oh, we need to tear this down to the studs, like, like we did back in 2018 I don’t think they need to do that, necessarily, either. Right? I mean, I’m not saying that. I hope not. My goodness, I don’t want to sit through another multi-year rebuild at the same time I do look at this thing and say, okay, what are you hanging your hat on right now? Same, while Besayo signed, I’m excited about him, right? He still has some, some, you know, the note, the natural maturation of a young player, and, and all that, but boy, you see him hit home runs the opposite way, and how about the fact that the glowing words that Trevor Rogers had for Bisayo as a catcher? Right, I mean, I think you and I might be a little too. Quick to move him off of catching, and I don’t mean necessarily that that means he’s going to catch 135 games, but you know, you hear some of these pitchers talk and they go out of their way to say they like throwing to him, and I don’t think it’s like, oh, we like him better than Rochman or anything like that. I think it’s just, hey, he’s 21 years old, and considering how much he has on his plate, he’s actually doing a pretty decent job back there, I think. There’s some of that that comes from the pitching that I, at least, am listening to more so than a year ago, where I kind of thought, okay, well, like this guy’s not a catcher, like this is like Carlos Delgado catching at the beginning of his career, right? I mean, so, so I don’t know, but regardless, he’s an asset, I think we all see that, right? You see the power, you see what he’s doing at age 21 so you have him, you have him under contract for eight years, right? So he’s not going anywhere. Peter Lonzo is under contract for four more years after this year. You have Shane Boz under contract. Whether Boz is ever going to become an ace, I don’t know. At the very least, Boz gives you is even this year has given them a pretty high floor. Go look at what he’s doing. It’s rare when he’s not at least getting through five or six innings, which isn’t, isn’t the definition of an ace, but it’s at least someone you can pencil in and depend on in your rotation.

Luke Jones 31:12
But, but yeah, I kind of look at the other young guys, and you know it’s a lot of I don’t know, right, but for this specific trade deadline, you have Trevor Rogers, who you haven’t extended to this point, are you going to do it now, are you going to do it after the season ends, or do you view this through the lens of, you know, this is probably not a guy that’s going to profile as a number one or number two starter, but he’s also pitched really darn well here of late. Can we parlay this into getting a couple assets for the future in the way that we tried to trade for Trevor Rogers two years ago, and you know, so you have him and the other guys, Taylor Ward. I mean, like, look, I love Taylor Ward’s ability to walk. He’s slugging 353 this year.

Speaker 1 32:10
It’s not we

Nestor Aparicio 32:11
signed up for, though, right? Yeah, I mean, like,

Luke Jones 32:15
I, again, I just don’t want to be a hypocrite here, because I’ve talked so much over the last five years about wanting to see Orioles lineups that walk more, and they have walked more. Go look at their walk rate, they walk quite a bit, and Ward’s obviously a big part of that, but at the same time, you know, is he someone at age 32 you know, go, you know, going into his age 33 season next year that I’m going to extend. No, I don’t think so, regardless of the fact that you traded Grayson Rodriguez for him, and whatever Grayson Rodriguez does or doesn’t become with the Angels at this point. So, you know, I look at Rogers and I look at Ward right now, and I realize if you trade those guys, then, then, then that’s signaling, yeah, you’re being way more of a seller than a buyer, but you know, I, those are kind of the two guys, the rest of these guys, I mean, you know, I look at the Rochman thing, you know, do you, do you really want Michaelias trading him, or do you hold on to him, hope he finishes the year well, and then if you are making a change at general manager, as so many people anticipate, hope, want, whatever, whatever, wherever you fall in that, you know, in those descriptors, you know, that feels like that could be the the first domino that falls in some shape or form for whoever the new guy is, if you’re, if you’re doing that, but you know, I just, I go down the list, and you know, position by position, you know, Jackson Holiday, I get it, he’s, he’s 22 he’s coming off of a tough injury, you know, the ham ate bone injury is, you know, his rehab was choppy, and he’s come back, and when he’s hitting 187 right now, he’s got a 658 ops. I’m not saying to bench him or anything crazy like that, but have we seen enough from Jackson Holiday to really think that he’s going to become a big time difference maker? I would say no to this point, top

Nestor Aparicio 34:19
of the list to say, like, all right, if they dealt him for something, something, something, something, do you flip out, or does he have that kind of value? Three players back for him, does somebody else value him? And more than that, how do they feel about him?

Luke Jones 34:36
Yeah, yeah, how do they

Nestor Aparicio 34:37
feel about him? What do they think his ceiling is? Not what are you and I looking and saying, well, he’s only 22 maybe,

Luke Jones 34:44
yeah, and that’s where that’s where I’m so fascinated and intrigued by the idea of a new regime, because one is it just, you know, at the top, and obviously Michaelias isn’t instructing these guys on a daily basis, but. He sets the philosophy right, he and Sigma Adele and Eve Rosenbaum and Matt Blood, and like, go down the list of all the movers and shakers that in the front office, right, they set the tone, they set, they deliver the message, they are saying, what, here’s what we prioritize, here’s what we’re going to be about, here are the things that we aren’t going to emphasize quite as much, right, and all that, but you know, my, my question, one of the first things I would say, and this is, this goes for anyone, whether it be Elias staying or a new general manager, this, this needs to be shaken up, right, and I don’t, and I don’t mean that that means the trade deadline, I just mean in general, and that could be probably more of a winter thing, and if you recall, I even talked about this last winter, the idea of maybe you need to trade someone from the young core, maybe you need to trade a couple of those guys, and I don’t mean the Kyle Stowers guys that were never part of the club, you know what I mean, you know what I mean, like, would that be,

Nestor Aparicio 36:02
that’s Henderson, Ruchman, or Holiday, or Westberg, and they can’t deal him, right? It’s kind of, but

Luke Jones 36:08
it’s kind of tough to talk about Ruchman in those terms, because he only has one more year of control left, anyway. I mean, like, this would be like trading someone like Holiday, or you know, trading a couple guys, you know, and really, really giving this organization a facelift, like big time, you know. Frankly, I mean, I’m not overly warm and fuzzy about any of these guys at this point in time, right? I mean,

Nestor Aparicio 36:35
that’s what I’m saying. So, if you feel that way, then if dealing is inevitable, right? I mean, here at this point, because they’re not going to win. This is the time to do that, whether you agree with Elias being the guy or not. This is when it’s going to happen. That, that to your point, shaking up the ship is something we have not really ever seen done around here, even in the Angelo serum. Maybe there’s that time they stopped off Surhoff and a bunch of guys in Messenia had to walk in the locker room, said, “Where is everybody? 2001 and we’re talking about 25 years ago, right? I just like that’s

Luke Jones 37:09
more of a winter thing, though. Like, because, like, what buyer is trading for Jackson Holiday at this point in time? You know what I mean? Like, Jackson Holiday is more likely to be another team that’s kind of like the Orioles, right now, making a move for that, you know what I mean, like in a, in a way, in the winter, almost like you would say you identify some other team’s prospect who hasn’t necessarily lived up to expectations, but is still young enough for the Orioles version of that, right? I mean, it’s just, I hate to sound so flippant, because it’s a really interesting exercise, but I’m just, so I’m just down on this collective group here, pretty, pretty substantially, right, and I’m just, you know, I, I, I said this to you about a week ago, and I say this mean this with any, to try to diss Adley, Ruchman, he’s had a nice bounce back season, he has, but I’m, I’ve been a little surprised at how much chatter I see, even from Orioles fans who are really frustrated with where they currently stand about this notion that you have to resign him, I don’t see. Like, let me be clear. If there was a reasonable three or four year deal to be made to keep him in Baltimore, fine. I’m not, like, I’m not saying he’s a bad player. He’s not. That would be dumb to say that on my part. At the same time, this is like the Adley Richmond that we’ve seen is not the guy that they dreamed of when they drafted, right. This has been way more along the lines of Matt Wieters than Johnny Bench, or you know what I mean, like, so I guess for me, I’m, you know, when I hear, and I don’t think too many fans are saying this necessarily, but I’m not giving him a blank check to keep him in Baltimore, just not, and that’s part of that, is how he played last year in the second half of 24 part of that is his age, I mean, he’s going to be 29 years old going into next year, and you know, I, he’s had more injuries here, of like, you know, the hit, getting hit by the errant throw, like I’m not blaming him for that, that was a freak thing with a, you know, that landed him on concussion protocol, but he’s had, you know, he had two oblique injuries last year, he had an ankle injury earlier this year, I mean, if I’m making a bet that he’s gonna be, you know, even what he’s been this year, for the next three or four years, I don’t feel that said, you don’t feel like dealing by the

Nestor Aparicio 39:46
end of the month, you just, you’ve gone through pros and cons, and I think the conservative nature of what we’ve seen here lends itself to, could they deal holiday, sure, would they deal Henderson, nah, well, you know, will they deal. Watchmen, probably not like you know to your point, Ward fine, maybe Rogers, if the right deal comes along and you really are, I’ll

Luke Jones 40:09
give you another guy that comes to mind, like if you’re, if let’s say they’re 10 games under 500 on august 1, so they’re definitely selling, right, they’ve been a few games under 500 over the next month or four weeks, whatever it is, by the way. If I get

Nestor Aparicio 40:24
on the poly market, I would do that, because, like, I think that over the next, they’ll be double digit under 500 I believe. Post

Luke Jones 40:32
post all-star break, they’re on the road quite a bit. I mean, you, you look at their post-all star break schedule, it’s at Houston, who is playing way better here over the last month at Boston, who the Red Sox, you know, we haven’t even mentioned this. The Red Sox are playing better, and the Orioles go into this homestand, I think what they’re half game ahead of the Red Sox at this point. As you and I are speaking in real time, they come home for Atlanta, I mean the Braves, even though they’ve haven’t been as dominant, they’re still in first place in the NL East, and then they go to Detroit for three, and then they play Philadelphia for their final series. They better bring

Nestor Aparicio 41:08
their big boy pants in those series. So,

Luke Jones 41:09
so let’s say they are going to be series,

Nestor Aparicio 41:12
it’s about 20 games,

Luke Jones 41:14
yeah, yeah, some somewhere in that neighborhood, but all against good

Nestor Aparicio 41:17
teams, not against the Reds.

Luke Jones 41:19
If they’re going to be sellers, though, could they, could they trade Yen Your Canoe, could they trade Rico Garcia if he’s pitching better at that point? I mean, sure, you know, so there’s, you know, there are things you can do, but even if you trade those guys, like you’re not getting something back that’s changing the trajectory of your franchise, right? So,

Nestor Aparicio 41:36
so, yeah, I mean, it’s just, well, the thing that would change the trajectory of the franchise, some of these core guys, as you call it. If they deal any of them, it would feel like a shake up any of them for anything. And, but what you know, I mean, for Elias, is you’re allowed, I think, that make these trades, and to me, he’s still the lame duck in all of this. Sure, and the questions about the ownership and the off season in labor, and how they view the labor issue from a cash standpoint, from an asset standpoint, and all of that being said, these guys, I talk about this stuff because I concern myself with it when I have people like Marty Conway and Eric Fisher’s coming on this week, and I’m at the Major League Baseball All-Star game next week, talking at 100,000 feet about all this, but that, that is the reality. If you’re not talking about it that way, you might as well be doing, you know, little league radio here today, because the big picture really is about these billionaires and how they perceive all of this, and they’re checked out, you know what I mean. They don’t care, you and I care. We’re going to spend a whole lot more time on the Orioles today in this conversation, and the folks listening, than they are. They don’t care about this. They’re not breathing Oriole baseball.

Luke Jones 42:51
I mean, they, they can prove it to everyone or not, right? I mean, it’s, it’s that simple. The ball is going to be in their court in that way. I mean, they’re, you know, it was very easy for them to arrive in 2024 thinking they were inheriting something that was already coming off a 101 win season and looked on paper like it was set up to be something at least good if not special over the next five to six years, and certainly that’s changed dramatically, right, dramatically, dramatically. So, yeah, How are you going to respond to that? Here’s, here’s the other scenario, and I’m going to write

Nestor Aparicio 43:33
about this this week, by the way. Here’s the

Luke Jones 43:35
other scenario, my

Nestor Aparicio 43:36
enthusiasm, the day that the Whistler pulled me up on opening day, and the day after the bridge went down, like from that day to today, oh my god, dude, we’re talking 27 months, 28 months,

Luke Jones 43:49
yeah,

Nestor Aparicio 43:50
and they’ve made bobble heads of themselves, he’s in the Epstein files, nothing’s the only thing they’ve done is fix the sound system and put a television in and made the place look like a friggin dungeon behind home plate, like

Luke Jones 44:05
I mean, I will say, and look, I’m not going to sit here. Well, they kicked you

Nestor Aparicio 44:09
out of the press box and put $400 seats in there, they can’t give away.

Luke Jones 44:13
I will say this, I mean, they’ve spent money the last two off seasons, have they? Has Michaelia spent it well? Have they spent enough? Like, like, we can, we can debate that, but they’ve clearly, you know, the, I mean, the payroll couldn’t have gone anywhere but up compared to where it had been, but they’ve spent money, so you know, I want to be fair. But here’s the other scenario I’ll lay out for you, and I’m, I’m guessing most people listening right now would hate this, but since we’re talking about all the different things that could happen, hypothetically, let’s say they are more engaged behind the scenes than what you or I or anyone is speculating about. Let’s say that Araghetti, and you know, whether Rubenstein. They’re not ownership, right, and Cal would be part of that, you know, not that he’s a decision maker, but he would be someone that clearly has an opinion, and in a more informed opinion than others that are in the ownership group. Let’s say they’ve talked with Mike. Let’s say Mike has said this clearly, like this young core is not as good as we thought it was going to be. That’s pretty evident now, couple years into us being a sub 500 baseball team. Is there a scenario where Mike acknowledges himself we’ve got to shake this thing up? Here’s my plan. Here’s where we’ve already pivoted in terms of things that we’re focusing on down in the minor leagues. We’ve started drafting more pitching over the last couple years, so we’ve acknowledged that we’ve made some adjustments, and keep in mind when you make changes in the minor leagues, it’s like planting seeds, right? You plant a seed, you’re not going to harvest that two days later, right? I mean it’s gonna be a while before you even see a sprout, let alone whether you’re going to reap any true benefits there, so and this might frankly, this might be the hail mary play for this regime, would to be, would be to frankly to acknowledge that this young core has disappointed, take their part in ownership of it, but also saying, hey, you know, some of these guys just haven’t performed, you know, we were wrong about this, or we were wrong about that, we thought this guy was going to be this, and he’s not that, you know, and it would be Elias in this regime shaking things up, and, and doing some of what we just said, maybe they, maybe they would have a bold trade deadline and trade a couple members of the young core. I don’t know, do I think that’s the likely scenario? No, not really. You don’t

Nestor Aparicio 46:48
care, you’re gonna be eating pizza in Wildwood next week. I care. I will be at the All-Star game, and we’re just gonna like.. I just don’t.. this happens. It happens at the end of the month. I mean, I’m out,

Luke Jones 46:56
honestly. I just.. I don’t.. not gonna move the needle. None of this is

Nestor Aparicio 47:00
buying me any confidence in Araghetti, Rubenstein, Elias, Albernaz Henderson, Watchmen, a lot. I don’t have, I don’t have confidence in most of this, to be honest with you. That’s fair.

Luke Jones 47:11
And let me, let me ask, I certainly don’t have any

Nestor Aparicio 47:13
confidence in Katie Griggs or Mark Fine or Don Rovak to have integrity or, you know, credibility in how they deal with human beings that are locally here, like this whole thing stinks. I can’t think of much. I gave Ben McDonald some love. I’ll give Balmer some love. Kevin Brown’s good at what he does, you know? I mean, I’m okay with the Alonzo signing in a vacuum. I’m okay with letting Holiday bake as a one one, let him play. I’m okay with them not feeling anybody, letting all these guys bake and play at this point, but it’s not good enough.

Luke Jones 47:48
Yeah, and that’s not good

Nestor Aparicio 47:49
enough.

Luke Jones 47:51
I’ll ask you the question that I’ve struggled with, and I think you can tell over the course of this segment, because at times I’m exasperated. Dude,

Nestor Aparicio 47:57
you need to go on vacation, eat some pizza.

Luke Jones 47:59
No, I mean, I wouldn’t say I’m exasperated, but I’ve just.. I’ll go back to what I’ve said now. For the better part of two years, I’m just kind of baffled at where this went wrong and how it’s gone wrong, and just.. it just feels so mediocre. And I’ll ask you, what.. what could possibly happen, other than just like, okay, it’s the movie Major League, and these guys just rip off 19 of 21 or something like that, and suddenly you look up and they’re eight games over five, basically doing what the Phillies have done over the last two and a half months, right? But what

Speaker 2 48:33
could

Nestor Aparicio 48:33
other

Luke Jones 48:34
than that, what could they possibly do? Like, what move could they make where you have confidence? And look, I know anyone listening right now is probably screaming at their radio, ‘Fire Mike Elias. Okay, who you hiring, and who is this ownership group going to hire? Who are they going to hire to head up a search committee? I’ve seen what

Nestor Aparicio 48:54
they’ve done with the president, I’ve seen her, so that’s where, and you know, I, and I’ll say this

Luke Jones 48:59
broads, and let me be clear, that’s not that’s not reason for not firing Michaelias, because Lou Angelos and John Angelos hired Mike, Michaelias, and I will continue to say, for the early part of the job, I think Michaelias did a perfectly fine job, right? He, they might, they modernized the organization, they updated things, they built an academy in the Dominican, all kinds of things that they absolutely had to do, and they did that, and the organization as a whole, from a baseball ops standpoint, regardless of what the standings look like at the major league level, is in a better position than it was eight years ago, but that said, that’s not that’s not the end all be all of the job, right, and that’s why I said when they had to flip the switch, you know, the quote liftoff moment that we all think about that Elias talked about four years ago, that’s where I’d say, yeah, they’ve done a substandard job since then, so but I just I don’t. This really lends itself to what you just said. I don’t even know what they could really do right now that makes me feel all, wow, I am really excited about that. Even if they fire Michaelias, and whether you think he should go, will go, whatever. I’m also not, I’m not confident that they’re going to hire someone who’s going to do a better job than him, right, and that, that’s, and look, you could say that all the time, right now.

Nestor Aparicio 50:27
Well, that’s really was the problem, because Angelos was here for years, and I’m like, I mean, it really was amazing that he lucked into McPhail and Showalter, you know what I mean, like at some point it got kept, which really didn’t, that shocked me, you know what I mean, given the fact that how people like Mike Flanagan turned out, and you know, a lot of people I met, Frank Wren, lots of people that worked there told me lots of things, Davey Johnson, the late great Davey Johnson, by the way, I want, I want to wrap this with something, but I want to give you a chance to get, get your, you know, your parting shot, because we’re gonna get together, fatally, is on Friday. We have football, we might wind up talking football, for I don’t know, but you’re gonna be gone next week. I’m gonna be at the All-Star game. You know, how much is it gonna change here with the Cubs in the Royals next couple days? Three and three, four and two, two and four, five, or whatever it is. They’re still gonna stink at the All-Star break, which I think was your point, by the way. Barstool Sports gave you big retweet. I don’t know if you saw that or not. They did see that they shouted you out, so they love you. That’s good.

Luke Jones 51:27
I did see that, but

Nestor Aparicio 51:28
my hair’s too long.

Luke Jones 51:29
But I definitely, I guess I just keep coming back to.. I don’t.. I don’t really know where they go from here. That gives me great confidence that that this is going to be figured out, like that, that it can be a quick fix, and that’s the part that’s so sobering to me, because they’re pushing the boulder up

Nestor Aparicio 51:47
the mountain again

Luke Jones 51:49
from being good. I would agree with that. I mean, unless, unless there truly is just that much, I don’t know if incompetence is right, sure, incompetence with the front office and the coaches that they’re hiring, and then you bring in someone else who, let’s face it, they’re going to hire someone else that’s going to be another Mike Elias, right, and let me be clear about that, that doesn’t, I’m not saying that necessarily means that’s going to be bad, but unless it’s someone who just has has really been able to focus in on on something that’s a market inefficiency that you can exploit,

Nestor Aparicio 52:30
you know, and that’s what we, you go all the way back to Billy Bean, the market inefficiency that they exploited was on base percentage once this is where Lock and Ford gets up into him, because lock and four’s actually met him, um, like some of this is literally, but, but it is about him taking this gig, knowing he’d have less money. This is Norway playing Brazil, dude, you know what I mean. No, it’s Cape Verde, you know, not that bad, but knowing he was going to have less resources and less assets to compete with the Yankees and the Red Sox, and then the Blue Jays, right? Just in our division, just knowing that taking this gig, his whole mindset was like me being a guy from Dundalk, I’ll sit closer than you and spend less, watch me, and I do it three times a week at concerts, so like he feels that way, so therefore that’s why he took this job, so somebody else taking this job has to feel that way, because you’re always going to be fighting that with this job.

Luke Jones 53:31
Yeah, well,

Nestor Aparicio 53:32
unless they fix the sport, you know, I was just gonna, I was just gonna say, I mean, we’ll see what the next CBA

Luke Jones 53:36
looks like, but I think a big part of this is eight years ago, you know, they were coming off of the Astros, and obviously that was a team that had had a lot of success, not all of it on the up

Speaker 3 53:49
and up,

Luke Jones 53:49
obviously, but success nonetheless. I mean, it wasn’t solely about sign stealing, right? I mean, they had lots of really good, talented players, but the thing is, and this is, you know, I just mentioned Billy Bean in the A’s 25 years ago. You know, you come in and you have secret sauce, right? There’s something that you do that you feel you’ve got an advantage, and reality is in this day and age with stat cast and everything that there is with baseball, right? Data for everything, there are very few secrets at this point in time, and those advantages are really just on the margins at this point in time. Now, I’ve said for years the team that figures out injury prevention, some kind of breakthrough that can help keep pitchers healthy, and I don’t know if that’s ever going to happen, but if it does, that team is going to have a massive advantage, massive advantage, but if the Indians

Nestor Aparicio 54:42
GM took over our draft picks and swapped out, he would pick different baseball players.

Luke Jones 54:47
Right. Sure, sure. I mean, like,

Nestor Aparicio 54:48
that’s just your fact. I mean, your assistant, the system GM of the Indians, consensus Guardians. I keep getting that wrong, but you’re trying to pick an organization that, but every organization at this,

Luke Jones 54:59
every. Organization is going to have certain things that they value differently than others, right. And we’re all intimate with the NFL draft to realize that with the cost, right? Needs Tam, Tampa is a great example of this, right. Tampa is very analytic-minded, but they don’t play baseball the same way that you’re seeing lots of other teams that are analytically minded play it. So, so I guess, for me, the saving grace that would make me feel great about the direction of this organization a year from now would be if they hire someone who has some secret sauce that gets Jackson Holiday playing like a one one and gets Gunner Henderson playing like the MVP candidate he was a couple years ago again, and if you do those things and you’re back on track, and then you still have the support of ownership to go out and spend money, and this new GM spends money differently than Michaelias, and it works out better, then great. But if not, and it’s just like another Michaelias, and you’re going to sell me on, okay? Well, these players just aren’t good enough, and that might just be the case, right. Period. And you’re talking about another tear down, even if it’s not as extreme as the one eight years ago, man. That’s just that, that’s such a sobering thought. But at the same time, I’m just.. it’s not a whole lot, Bisayo, couple others here and there, you know, there’s not a whole lot that I’m excited about as it pertains to the big picture for this organization, and, and that’s where I look at this thing, and so I am not enthusiastic about the trade deadline one way or the other. I don’t feel like there’s a quick fix, and I don’t necessarily feel like there’s a way to quickly reload, either, if that makes sense, you know, selling, but then putting yourself in better position for next year. I mean, and that’s just, you know, they’re kind of just stuck in between, and that’s that’s the absolute worst place you want to be. All right,

Nestor Aparicio 56:53
exasperated, often confused with exacerbated, which would be like, you know, when your blister gets worse, exasperated was the word that Jack Gibbons always used for me when he was my boss, and I was 17 years old. He was exasperated with me, so I had to look this word up when Jack said this to me, and I’m like, “Shit, this isn’t good. I’m really pissing him off. Being exasperated, as Jack Gibbons would say, means feeling intensely irritated or frustrated, he would do this whenever I screwed the lottery numbers up, specifically, usually after facing repeated unresolved problems, might have been hammer jacks. It describes that point where your patience runs out and you’re ready to give up or scream because the situation will not improve, and if you will not admit that you’re exasperated by the Orioles, I will. I’m Nestor, he’s Luke. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with