The Orioles long, perilous road back to being a serious contender with lousiness of Team Mike Elias

We don’t think much about this Baltimore Orioles “program” is working as intended. After another season where most things went wrong and not enough went right, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the franchise’s long road back to the field with the Major League Baseball labor crisis about to ignite and what fans can expect with another Mike Elias “rebuild” that feels extremely unwarranted and unwanted by everyone but the ownership.

The discussion assessed the Orioles’ disappointing season, roster outlook, and uncertainty surrounding the organization’s baseball leadership.

Season Assessment

• The Orioles are nearing elimination after a last-place season, with major concerns about leadership, fundamentals, defense, and attendance.
• Luke and Nestor agreed that the team is not close to contention without substantial improvement, particularly in the outfield and infield structure.

Roster Outlook

• Encouraging developments include Pete Alonso’s performance and leadership, Kobe Mayo’s recent offensive progress, Brandon Young’s emergence, Trevor Rogers’ strong performance since Memorial Day, and a deeper pitching pipeline.
• Major questions remain about Gunnar Henderson, Jackson Holliday, Jordan Westburg’s health and position, Samuel Basallo’s catching workload, and whether the team can add two starting-caliber outfielders.

Organizational Questions

• The future of Mike Elias and manager Craig Albernaz remains unresolved, although Elias indicated he expects to return and the manager is expected to remain.
• Would a new general manager have sufficient authority and job security if Elias remains president of baseball operations?
• Will owners David Rubenstein and Michael Arougheti make meaningful baseball-operations changes before or after the expected work stoppage?

• Participate in the Baltimore Positive baseball broadcast at the State Fair on Thursday morning with Casper Wells and Alan McCallum. (@Nestor Aparicio)
• Appear at Pizza Johns next Friday afternoon for the scheduled baseball event and broadcast. (@Nestor Aparicio)

Season Status

• The Orioles are approaching elimination after a poor season and have little meaningful baseball left to discuss before the offseason.
• The expected work stoppage creates uncertainty around player communication, roster development, and the timing of next season.

Positive Developments

• Pete Alonso has delivered strong production and clubhouse leadership.
• Kobe Mayo, Brandon Young, Trevor Rogers, and several emerging pitching prospects were identified as encouraging developments.
• The bullpen has performed better than expected, with Félix Bautista, Ryan Helsley, Seranthony Domínguez, and other internal options affecting the outlook.

Roster Problems

• The outfield is considered the most urgent positional weakness.
• Catcher, infield alignment, defensive execution, baserunning, and player availability remain unsettled.
• The futures of Gunnar Henderson and Jackson Holliday were discussed as major evaluation questions.

Leadership And Ownership

• The conversation examined whether Mike Elias should remain and whether he can attract a strong general manager with meaningful authority.
• Luke questioned whether the ownership group is sufficiently engaged with the team’s condition and operational needs.
• Nestor emphasized the contrast between the organization’s current state and the accountability he has sought since Free the Birds.

Nestor Aparicio 0:01
Welcome home. We are WNST AM 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We call it Baltimore Positive. We’re calling this Rio Week. It’s Copa Cabana will be on the beach. I love that AI thing I put together with Luke and me and Raskin on the beach. Raskin will be there. He’s our representative. Luke and I will be here lamenting a lost baseball season. It’s all brought to you by friends at the Maryland Lottery. We’re going to be at State Fair on Thursday morning doing some baseball. Casper Wells will be joining me as well as Alan McCallum. I don’t need to drag Luke down because we’re all getting ready for Rio and Ipanema and Carnival and beating the Cowboys and all of that stuff. I’m getting ready for some French fries and gravy next Friday at Pizza Johns. That’s the second. Some baseball teams will be eliminated, half of them, by next Friday. On the second, we’ll be at Pizza Johns in the afternoon eating pizza. And yeah, Luke, I got to tell you, man, you wear your Pizza Johns hat, and I’m glad we didn’t wear our same Farn in Derby. We didn’t dress as like orange twins because I put this one on because this is sort of our requiem for the Orioles. We’re gonna do some Oriole baseball here, but I went to Pizza John’s on the download the other night because my wife was craving a cheese steak and like whenever got some cheese steaks. And this has been going on a lot, man. It happened to Costas the other night. Hi Harrison, appreciate you listening. People are kind to me. I don’t know what the hell’s going on. Maybe it’s the 20th anniversary for the birds. I maybe they realize it was really right about Angelos or whatever, but I’m walking out of Pizza John’s and I was disheveled, like I was in sweatpants. We had just come from yoga, like I was a mess. I’m like planning fitness stuff. My hair’s all over the place. My wife didn’t want to get out. I’m walking. I sneak in a couple bags. I’m walking out. Dude stops me. He’s like, hey, hey, Nestor. Like, yeah, yeah. He’s like, you don’t even carry a pizza. What are you doing walking out of? You walking out of pizza, John? You don’t even have a pizza. And I got like four bags. I even got a cannoli, dude. Like I got. I never had a. I got a cannoli, so I had a bag with a cannoli, a bag with a salad, two bags with cheesesteaks that weighed three pounds. And dude’s yelling at me. He’s like, “You don’t have a pizza. And I’m like, don’t I look like I have enough food? Look at me. So anyway, how are you, man? Welcome in.

Luke Jones 2:05
Good, good. It’s funny you mention that because my brother’s birthday was this past week, and he and his girlfriend went to Pizza John’s, and they got pizza, of course, as you know. Living in Southern Pennsylvania, you you don’t make that many drives down to to Essex. And let’s be honest, there’s

Nestor Aparicio 2:21
nowhere you’re getting that pizza in Shrewsbury. Correct, correct. I

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Luke Jones 2:24
mean, we have a couple solid places, but you know, most pizzas just pizza, right? Pizza John’s is an exception to that, but but it’s funny, ancient pizza. I was talking to his girlfriend about it because I asked what they got, and she just said, “Well, pizza, of course. You know, got meat sauce, pepperoni, and I said to her, “You do know, contrary to what Justin might tell you, Pizza Johns has lots of other good stuff. In case you’re ever going with him and you want to get something different, and I rattled off the four or five other things that I know are good. I mean, many more than that, but the things I’ve had specifically. So it was just funny that you mentioned that because I just had a a conversation literally three days ago about yeah they they they have more than just pizza I mean the pizza’s unbelievable but there’s plenty of great things to try there now let’s talk about

Nestor Aparicio 3:12
the baseball team where the pizza is well not well done dude I don’t know where to go and and I I will excuse you from State Fair on Thursday. We’re gonna get together. Casper’s coming out. Alan’s coming. Alan’s got a lot of his mind. A lot of his mind. I don’t know, man, dude. We’ve been talking about this for like 810, 12 weeks since it went into the hole early in the year, and it didn’t feel good. Albernaz, get on the bandwagon, you know, like, and the injuries and the this and the that and the Gunners and the All Star Games and the Adleys and the trades and the trading deadlines and the fire alyses and the like all of that and we knew we’re going to come to this like I don’t know how many more of these we’re going to do this is the last in season piece I think we’re going to do pending elimination we’re going to watch baseball because you and I love baseball I mean we’ll probably text each other something funny next week on a Wednesday when something weird happens in the Phillies game or whatever, right? And you and I will get together, but we’re not going to do like Yankees beat the Red Sox last night. We might throw it in as a cheap shot if the Ravens lose to the Cowboys this week, which they can certainly do in Rio. But like, I don’t know what’s going to compel you and me to talk about the Baltimore Orioles as a functioning unit in any positive way other than the amount of menor I am about to pile on their effing heads in my columnists about Elias Griggs Rubenstein Ariguetti saving it the strike the warehouse their payroll watching other teams play in October on and on and on and on is Cal Ripken running like all we’ll go all night on all that I’ll get ready for that. But at the end of it, you want to talk baseball and about the team. Yeah. And as we get to the end of this, this has been a really ugly look. Like it’s almost like don’t watch because it’s it’s it’s it’s it’s not Major League Baseball this week, and it’s a hell of a way to go out on all. This for me, and and give me my Los Orioles jersey whenever I get it. Thank you.

Luke Jones 5:03
Yeah, I mean it’s just it’s all very very disappointing. I mean the only thing to watch this week specifically beyond when they’re officially going to be eliminated in terms of combination of another Oriole loss, another White Sox win or two, right? I mean that that’s where we are at this point. As you and I are speaking in real time, let alone as the week goes on. I assume when they

Nestor Aparicio 5:24
listen, they’re eliminating. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Luke Jones 5:25
I mean, even with Monday night’s comeback win, which Pete Alonso hits his 40th home run, I mean, they’re they’re. I think they improved from like 0.2% to 0.4% or whatever it is. I mean, that’s what we’re talking about in real time. So that being over, and everything you just mentioned-that is the massive black cloud hanging over the organization in terms of leadership, in terms of the lockout, in terms of what that all means, in terms of your ability to improve your roster, in terms of your ability to maintain contact with your young players from december 1 on, right until whenever it’s over, right? All that, those are so many unknowns, and those are so many things that, like you and I, can sit here and talk about it. We can criticize elements of it. We can even talk about elements of it that might not be so bad, but those are are all the unknowns, and those are all the big picture things that you and I can sit here and speculate and opine, but when I do try to just look at the baseball team, the roster, where they are right now, what the hypothetical off season looks like, what next year looks like hypothetically, again not knowing whether it’s going to be February, March, or July, or not at all in 2027, right? We just don’t know. I kind of went through and I looked at, I tried to make a list of okay, what am I encouraged by? What’s a positive? What are the negatives? And again, I’m trying to speak strictly in terms of the roster, where they are from a baseball team standpoint, right? And my positives, I’ll go through those, and then we’ll probably spend way more time on the negatives. But I mean, Pete Alonso has been everything they could have imagined in year one. He has been fantastic. You could make an argument, and I get it. His first year, he had 53 home runs in the major leagues, right? But beyond just the the raw home run total, you you could make a compelling argument that this is Pete Alonso’s best year in the majors. It’s certainly one of his two or three best years in the majors, and you’re talking about someone who’s had 40 plus home run seasons. You’re talking about someone who, the baseline COVID year aside, the baseline’s been he’s a 35 home run hitter, right? So we’ve talked about his defense. We’ve talked about for all the lack of leadership from top to bottom in this organization, on and off the field. Pete Alonso’s absolutely been a leader. I mean, you see it. You see it when he’s talking to teammates in the dugout or in the on deck circle about hey look out for this this is what this pitcher you know this is what I saw in my first at bat I mean that’s all of that kind of stuff that are intangibles but it very much factored factored into the math of giving him the deal that they gave him last winter. What helps being

Nestor Aparicio 8:18
all of that if you’re Kevin Millar and you’re hitting 14 home runs at batting 221 on a Cowboy off team. It’s all different thing when you’re the best player on the team.

Luke Jones 8:26
Right, it carries more clout. We’ve talked about that. You don’t need your leader to be the absolute best player on the team, but your leader better be one of the best players on the team. Otherwise, it’s what you said. You can have some guys like Kevin Millar. You just mentioned him as an example. You can have some guys that are, you know, just kind of guys that you view as glue guys in your clubhouse, in your locker room, and I’m talking any sport, right? But if your best player or your best players aren’t going to be those top leaders for you, that that can be that can be tricky. I mean, it just can be. I think anyone, if you’re looking at it from a sports psychology standpoint, and I think look in the business world, look anywhere where you are talking about people that have to work together, that dynamic needs to be there. So by far and away, if everything else had gone well or even reasonably well, that they needed to go well for this year, and we were we were getting ready to talk about the Orioles being in the playoffs, whether it was winning the division, whether it was being one of the wild cards. We would be singing the praises of the organization for signing Pete Alonso because it’s worked out that well. Now, the rest of it, as far as things that. By the way, I had Mike

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Nestor Aparicio 9:38
Vacaro on this week to promote that to talk about Ernie Accorsi, and obviously he’s New York Post and covered Pete Alonso. He’s like, from the outside, he’s like Pete Albernaz went to a place where he had another awful season, just like everything that happened for the Mets, and that can’t be a nice vibe for him going into this strike where he’s going to be one of the guys saying we’re not taking the deal, we’re not. Making the deal because the owners are going to blame it on the players in April and say, “Hey, you know, we got all this money dangling for these millionaire players, and they’re going to put their Chad Steeles in front of it, or whomever whoever their people are, their Katie Griggs’s in front of it, and you know, the Pete Alonso is going to have to be the prick because the money’s his money’s in the bank. He’s going to have to be the guy, the leader guy with the union guys with the the Sam Bassayos to say Sam, you don’t want your $78 million or 50 Shane Boz, you don’t want you’re with us. You’re you’re and you talk dude. You’ve been through this and you’re old enough because you’re kind of half old now. By the way, today’s my son’s birthday. I know yours is next week too. So both of you have a birthday right around now. So my son turns 42 today. I’m just doing the math on it. 264. Yeah. And you know, I think about like a Pete Alonso being the leader in this whole thing and how these strikes work and these work stoppages work and how the text machine would work, and how the FaceTime would work now, where it used to be phone calls like from Florida to Arizona to Dominican to Venezuela, trying to hold these guys together. Dude, you and I talking about everything but balls and strikes, and who’s doing this, and the spin rate, you know, like all that. Once the World Series is over, because it’s really going to be like guys like Pete Alonso, who are going to f this up for the owners by getting the young guys to buy in, and that that’s where the war is really going to be is because of the strength of those relationships of the players, and a guy like Pete they’re going to rue that Pete Alonso came in and galvanized these young players around in this clubhouse in the way Bryce Harper’s going to do that, and like that’s what they’re counting on as they all go to war. And they brought in, they didn’t bring in some Adley Rutschman softy nouveau guy that’s going to run. You know, I have a feeling Pete Alonzo will be the guy from the players’ association standpoint to galvanize all young players here because that’s the direction the war is going in at this point, and you’re right. Alonso is you know going to be all that in a bag of donuts, and I’m sure on the players’ association side very much so.

Luke Jones 12:10
Yeah, I mean that part aside because like I said, I wanted wanted to take a few minutes here to talk about the on-field stuff. I mean we’re going to have plenty of time to talk about that. I mean there’s no doubt, but because from especially december 1 on, I mean, there’s not going to be anything else to talk about. I didn’t

Nestor Aparicio 12:24
try to lead you into temptation, but I don’t. I’m not done with Pete Alonso because I think there’s a real special thing going on that all the specialness you’re talking about with him. Will

Luke Jones 12:33
at the same time he’s to my knowledge he doesn’t have a formal leadership position in the MLBP. Now Chris Bassett did you know has been that kind of guy, but he’s not under contract beyond this year. But as far as positives, as far as looking at this team right now and looking at what’s under club control, what’s under contract, right? I’ve been very encouraged by what I’ve seen from Kobe Mayo over the last couple months. I think we we’ve talked about the defensive element to that. I’ve said on a number of occasions, and I even had a couple people tweet this to me the other night, which I thought was funny because it’s absolutely the the thing that I’ve been saying. And this is where another element that’s complicated by the idea of having a blackout of communication come december 1. On you know, I’d love to see Kobe Mayo spend all winter working in right field, and just tell me what. Let me see what it looks like whenever spring training starts, right? Because you know Trey Mancini, right? Trey Mancini can do something like that, where Tre Mancini, at least for a year or two, and Trey was wasn’t a great outfielder. I’m not going to sit here and say he was. I mean, at times it looked, you know, borderline cringe. But Kobe Mayo, being the athlete he is, the fact that he has a strong throwing arm? The fact that he-I mean-I mean, the bat-he’s starting to hit right-handers, right? Go look at his numbers the last six, seven weeks. Where I mean, he’s been playing every day as he should be. So I’m encouraged by that. It’s not-he’s

Nestor Aparicio 13:52
making the most of this dark time of this young

Luke Jones 13:55
core. You know the guys in the way

Nestor Aparicio 13:57
that it’s Trevor Rogers and and Bradish did last year during the dark time. You know that August and September is like, hey, sure, we’re finding our game, which is what we were hoping Jackson Holiday would be doing right now. Right, we’ll get to Jackson Holiday in a moment,

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Luke Jones 14:11
but but so Kobe Mayo, I’m really encouraged by what Brandon Young’s done. I think at I think at a minimum, I feel pretty good about him at least rolling into the Dean Kramer role in this rotation, right? Whether he’s going to, you know, I I don’t know if he’s going to be a guy that’s going to miss enough bats and strike out enough people consistently over the long haul to to profile as more than a back end of the rotation guy. But there’s still value there. I’m really encouraged. I mean, if someone had told you back in March that Brandon Young was going to make as many starts as he did for this ball club, you probably would have said, “Oh wow, that’s not a good thing. And in some ways, you know, you could kind of spin the argument because of Efflin getting hurt, Bassett missing so much time. But you would have said, “When did Efflin or Bassett or Kramer get hurt? Is what the thing. Is Brandon Young has been one of their very best starters, right? I I already said to you I voted for him second on my most valuable Oriole ballot, right? And I know that’s not that’s not you know that sounds like kind of, but but he’s he’s been worthy of some praise, right? So excited about him, Trevor Rogers. I mean he’s he’s gonna be a free agent. Are they going to qualify or qualify off for him? Are they going to find a way to re-sign him? I don’t know, but he’s pitched from Memorial Day on. Trevor Rogers has been excellent, right? And you’d love to add him to what you already have, which you know for next year you have Bradish penciled in, you have Boz penciled in. Of course, those guys are signed long term, and you have Brandon Young, who has years of club control remaining. So you have that. I don’t know what’s going to happen with Trevor Rogers. I’d like to see him back. Right, he’s finished. He’s not just finished. I mean, from the last four months, he’s pitched at a very high level. Right, and there have been very few hiccups along the way. So you know the the the rotation I just mentioned there. Could they add another starter? Of course they could. Could they add two starters? Of course they could. They do have some some arms that are advancing through the system, including some of what they acquired at the trade deadline. When you look at someone like Ironson, obviously, that you know these are individuals that could be a factor at some point in next season’s, you know, the hypothetical timeline of next season, right? So, I think the rotation still needs some work. But look, their rotation, even if it even if it wasn’t the names that we expected, their rotation from Memorial Day on, I think was good enough, at least in terms of what the vision was to begin the season, right? What Michaelias’s vision would have been as far as how this team was going to win 90 games. Sure, they

Nestor Aparicio 16:53
could win 90. I think

Luke Jones 16:54
that you know. I think you would have taken what the rotation has given you over the last four months. I mean, give them three runs every night and boss pitches over the course of the year, right, right. I mean, I mean, even look at look at Monday night. I mean, Boz gives up three runs early on, and you say, “Oh no, he settled in and got six and two thirds, you know, or six and a third. You know, pitch into the seventh inning. So, so you have that. I’ll say this: I have been so so critical of their bullpens over the last few years, at least in terms of what they’ve done philosophically, right? In terms of feeling like they didn’t do enough to the bullpen, they’ve made it work. Even post deadline, when they traded Tyler Wells, go look at their numbers. Their bullpen has pitched well. Now, I get it. They’ve been on the fringe of contention. They haven’t been in a position where they’re in do or die, must win games in the way that you’d like to think about it. Not this weird zombie-like wild card race that I’ve coined it as over the last couple months. But you do look at the rotation. Helsley’s going to be back because of the health picture, right? I mean, he’s going to be healthy. Felix Batista just pitched for the first time the other night. That was good to see. You’ve got Cano under contract. Rico Garcia, Anthony Nunez. You’ve got Walker and Wolfram. You’ve got Luis De Leon, who I don’t know how close attention some Orioles fans have been been paying the last couple weeks. De Leon’s got a good arm. I I like him, so you’ve got Hoppy, you’ve got Cam Sanders. Are all those guys going to be stud shutdown relievers for you? No, of course not. But I think you have a deeper inventory of interesting arms to go into the off season. Could they add another high leverage arm? Yes. In fact, I would still bang the table to add someone, you know, to kind of replace Kittridge in that hypothetical hierarchy that you had going into 2026. Point is, I think you’ve got some interesting arms that maybe you didn’t have the last few years. We’ll see how it shakes out, right? Bullpens are like the stock market, you know, it looks great, and then five minutes later, part of this is the trade

Nestor Aparicio 19:02
deadline and the way he moved wells and the way he moved chairs. Sure. And you know, look, we’re 1015, minutes into this. We haven’t said the words Mike Elias, right, in regard to this and belief. And you and I talked about this in the aftermath of the Ravens loss on Sunday in a long form about he believes he’s coming back. He believes Albernaz is coming. It feels like they’re going to roll part of that back. Part of that would be Elias saying, “I helped the bullpen dramatically during the trading deadline. Right? He would say that.

Luke Jones 19:36
I mean, dramatically might be strong, but has enhanced some of the, you know, you have options. You you’ve added more options to the bullpen. I I would go along with that. You know, I’m trying to be as fair and objective as I can be. Well, much more so

Nestor Aparicio 19:51
than Nunez and Garcia looked in March when you’re like a converted position player and a dude from Hawaii who’s a journeyman who was pitching in the the. You know, whatever league it was like, there’s a little bit of that for you and me coming out of March, but they’re for them, for the professionals, smarter than me, and I’ll give that away to Michael Iz. I wish he would share some of that great wisdom and and some of the integrity that he probably lacks to sit here and explain it to me. But they would say if we were down in Sarasota, they would say to Rock Cabaco, they would say, “Hey, it doesn’t matter anything that happened five. It’s where they are right now. Juniors isn’t a infielder anymore. He’s a guy throwing well enough to get major league hitters out in spring training ball, and we’re going to go north. You know, like that’s what the what it would have been where you and I were like, ‘All right, find me something that’s an is, not a might be. They would say this is an is because we’ve been working with this guy, and you know, French kisses have been going on, and we’ve been talking to this and that, and we’ve been working on this, and um, and by and large, hey dude, we’re five and a half, six months that we’re we’re 150 some games into this, and we’re giving I don’t even left-handed praise. We’re giving him some praise on this, right? On the bullpen.

Luke Jones 21:02
Yeah, and and that’s why I’ve said it’s not all bad, but you know, and and we’ll get to the last

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Nestor Aparicio 21:09
place though. Oh, sure, sure, sure.

Luke Jones 21:11
No, I’m providing the caveat before the, but it’s not all bad. Like for example, one of my positives that I noted and I alluded to it a couple minutes ago. You know, you do have a farm system that is more pitching rich and and pitching centric than it’s been at any point during the Michaelias era. Now, part of what part of what I think their risk aversion was once upon a time was how much volatility that can still someone people that are way smarter than me in terms of evaluating farm systems and value evaluating organizations, evaluating what you need if you’re truly going to develop your own pitching. I mean, they’ll tell you that you need four or five prospects to have one come out of that, right? You know what I mean. So there’s a little bit of that going on, but you have Anthony Iinson, you have Joseph Jerwa, who they drafted and looks like a guy that could be in the majors at some point next year. They have Caden Hunter, right? I mean, they have De Leon in the bullpen. I we’ll see what they do with him, right? I mean, will he stay in a bullpen role? Do they just say, “Hey, we’re going to do that, or do they still entertain the possibility of him being a starter? Right? I mean, that Michael Ferret, they got back in the Tyler Wells deal. He’s, you know, there there was a scenario where he might have pitched for the Orioles at the very end of the season, right? I mean, hypothetically, I guess he still could, but the point is they do have, you know, and I just named like I’m looking at their top 30 list on MLB.com. Those guys, I those names I just mentioned are all top 10 in their system right now, for whatever that’s worth. So you have that, and Carnacione Strand has been a nice little find for them. Am I am I willing to pencil him in as an everyday player next year? No, but I certainly am taking him the spring training and and liking what I’ve seen and all that. Feel better about him than I did about

Nestor Aparicio 22:58
Jorge Leteo two years ago. Sure, sure.

Luke Jones 23:00
Yeah, yeah. I mean, maybe maybe Matteo three or four years ago, but certainly what Matteo had been the last year or two. So, did you notice something though in all the positives I just cited?

Nestor Aparicio 23:12
Gunner Henderson’s not one of them.

Luke Jones 23:14
I named one guy, one guy that was in their quote young core.

Nestor Aparicio 23:21
Yeah, that’s PAO, right?

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Luke Jones 23:23
Yeah. When I get into the negatives, when I get into the negatives or the question marks, and again, I’m putting aside Michaelias, I’m putting aside Craig Albernaz, I’m putting aside ownership, putting aside the lockout, just the baseball part, the on-field part. Gunner Henderson and Jackson Holiday. What are you doing with these guys? How are you? If you’re keeping them, how are you fixing them? In the case of Holiday, I don’t know if it’s fixing them as much as how are you tapping tapping more potential out of him? Because as I’ve said to you, you see, I mean, Gunner’s already shown his ceiling in the major leagues. Jackson Holiday. My big question is: Is this all like? Is this all it is? Because you can refine what you’ve seen, but I don’t see elite traits. I don’t see traits that tell me, even as he gets older, that he’s going to be much more than a solid to okay ball player, right? So, what are you doing with those guys? Do you trade one of them? Do you entertain the possibility of trading both of them? Right? It’s a different dynamic because Gunner is much closer to free agency than Holiday. But what are you doing there? Their outfield’s terrible, absolutely terrible. You need at least two starters. You can sell me if you can go land two starting quality outfielders via trade, via signing and free agency, however you want to do it, you can sell me on the idea of a spot, kind of being a you know a spot being there for Dylan Beavers, Colton Cowser, Tom. Tyler O’Neill, if you want to throw Enrique Bradfield in there, you could you could sell me on that plan if you have two bona fide legitimate starting outfielders that you’ve added to the to the roster. Otherwise, that plan’s DOA. And I, frankly, I you know I’m not going to sit here and say that as much as I still have some hope for for Dylan Beavers, I I don’t know if the plan I don’t like the plan of oh I’m just going to hand him every day starts right. Colton Kowser ideally as much as I like his defense, I’d rather him be a fourth outfielder because he just doesn’t hit enough right. He’s he’s not nearly consistent enough to pencil him into the lineup every day if you’re talking about trying to win. So the outfield is a disaster right now, right? That I mean, we’ve seen it. I don’t. I’m not trying to be personal here, but guys like Reese Hines belong in the major leagues on a team that’s even even in a position the Orioles have been the last few weeks, and I get it. Luis Robert got hurt. Tyler O’Neill got hurt. But if this is supposed to, you know, Elias eight years ago, remember the buzz term that he used, an elite talent pipeline. If you truly have that, you should have something at Triple A that’s more useful than what we’ve seen. Instead, it’s been Reese Hines and Christian Franklin, which again, nothing personal. Those guys, you know, they didn’t ask to be caught up to the majors when they don’t really belong here, right? So the outfield’s an absolute mess. Besio, I’m not down on him. Like I, I would have put him, and I should have mentioned him. I’m still encouraged by the upside with the bat, but the health picture, the dynamic of what they’re going to do at the catcher position, like what, where is that going? You

Nestor Aparicio 26:51
really think he’s 121 game catcher next year? Not not 120.

Luke Jones 26:56
You can sell me on the idea that he’s the number

Nestor Aparicio 26:59
two

Luke Jones 27:00
co-starter, or or even co-starters, you could sell me on the idea of Basayo catching 80 games, right? But you can’t sell me on the idea that Narvaez is going to catch the other 80, because that’s not good enough, right? So what are you doing there? I mean, so much of this is-it’s messy. Good enough. It’s it’s me. I mean, it’s at best it’s messy, and at worst, it’s very discouraging. And oh yeah, I’ll throw this out there: Caden Bodine, who they drafted in 25, was in the was in the Shane Boz deal. A little bit of homework for you. Just you know, go Google and see what he’s done, even at the triple A level, to the point where the Rays kind of have him in an on-call position, just in case, you know, you know, he’s not. I’d be shocked if we see him play in the postseason. But if if they would be in a position where something happens, they traded him as part of the Boz deal. They gave up a lot to get Boz, and look, Boz had a really solid year. Is there another level for him to hit? To you know that he’s a number one or a number two? I don’t know if it’s there because he’s just not striking out enough people. But the point is, Caden Bodine was someone they drafted, and at the time you kind of thought, okay, this kind of feels like well, Adley Rutschman’s probably not going to sign long term. This feels like a guy that you’re going to maybe pair with Basayo, or is Basayo going to play first base? Because keep in mind, Pete Alonso wasn’t in the picture at that point. So, but man, Bodine’s been really, really good, like really, really good this quickly. And you look at that and say, “Man, it’d be nice to be.

Nestor Aparicio 28:43
Well, they identified that he was going to be good. They drafted. I mean, they

Luke Jones 28:46
drafted him, right? I mean, and and and again, like they deserve credit for identifying him, but they also traded him away. And well, Shane Boz

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Nestor Aparicio 28:53
went to Cy Young two years. He’s now.

Luke Jones 28:55
Well, I guess for me, I don’t. I’m not buying that that Shane Boz is going to become that guy. If I’m wrong, hey, it won’t be the first time, won’t be the last, right? So, like, gave

Nestor Aparicio 29:04
him a lot of money. But I’m just

Luke Jones 29:05
saying, I mean, Bodine at look, and and I pulled up his numbers. He started the year. You was

Nestor Aparicio 29:11
dealing for Shane Boz. You dealt him for Shane Boz for the right to give Shane Boz $80 million. And if

Luke Jones 29:16
they also traded other players in that deal for Shane Boz, right? It wasn’t just Bodine, but he was at. He’s been at three different levels this year. Bodine. He started out in the Carolina League. He was in the Sally League. He was in Doubleway and finished up at 22 one. He is 22. Right. I mean, he was he was in. He was a college player, but he is. He will be 23 in December, but at Triple A, in it’s and it’s only been 15 games, 61 plate appearances. He has a 970 OPS over four levels this year. Keep in mind, this is his first year in full year in professional baseball over four levels, batted 342. A 410 on base percentage, a 927 OPS, 17 home runs, 99 RBIs, 27 doubles, and also, you know, he was kind of considered a guy that good behind the plate, right? I mean, the the the bigger question on him was how much would he hit, and the hitting part has looked really, really encouraging. So, anyway, a little bit of a tangent I just went off on, but I just wanted to speak to as we’re talking about guys like Norvayes and Pozo playing behind the plate down the stretch here after the Rutschman trade. That’s someone they traded away last winter. So you have that picture. I’m still optimistic on Basio long term, but man, they’ve got to figure that out, right? What’s that going to look like? And you know that that’s also with Kobe Mayo not having a a nat you know a a set position, right? So there’s kind of that complication of okay, you can kind of share DH at bats for those two, but you Pete Alonso can DH a little more, especially as he’s getting a little bit older into this contract, but you know, there’s still like a little bit of a unknown there for me. Just in general, the defense, the base running, the fundamentals, poor, poor, poor. Right? I mean, just let’s call it what it is. It’s been very poor. That that’s you know that’s not something that you’re necessarily going to fix overnight, but boy, you better get to it because that cost them a lot of games this year. There’s no doubt about that. You know, I’ve already mentioned the catching picture, leadership beyond Alonzo, and obviously that’s kind of getting off the field. But that’s ownership, that’s GM, that’s all that, right? So, and then the other factor, and I alluded to this a little bit with Gunnar Henderson and Jackson Holiday, like the infield picture in general, like what does it look like? Okay, Alonzo is going to play first. Basayo and Mayo can fill in if Alonzo needs a day or is going to DH. But what’s third base shortstop second base going to look like? And obviously, if Gunnar Henderson is going to be here, if Jackson Holiday is going to be here, what’s said on this

Nestor Aparicio 32:05
team? Like, as we sit here, what’s real? Like, what’s what right now would you be willing to like big Poppy and bet on that? What really is going to be on the field next year? I would say Bradish is going to be the open day starter, like I, you know, I give you that. Okay, I mean, you know, I mean,

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Luke Jones 32:24
I, I name a handful of guys

Nestor Aparicio 32:25
that we think, okay, no,

Luke Jones 32:27
no, I, I don’t mean that to be down on Bradish, but I’m also like, can you go out and get a a more established veteran starter that can be the one going into the season at the very least? And I’m

Nestor Aparicio 32:39
convinced Elias is going to run this team, so I would bet against that. But I don’t know anything about Rubenstein and Arigati. My point is, I’m not terribly

Luke Jones 32:47
encouraged to give the. I’m in. I’m still encouraged about Bradish that you you extended him and he’s going to be here and he’s going to be part of the rotation. But at the same time, I am a little discouraged how much he wore down at the end of the season, not necessarily even in the context of like that. I’m concerned that he’s injured, but you know he had a he had a solid year back from Tommy John, but he wasn’t the guy he was pre injury. So for me to to just hand him the ball in opening day and say, we’re good, not you know for for one thing if if they re-signed Trevor Rogers I’d I’d make Trevor Rogers the opening day starter quite frankly if it came to that and that maybe that’d be like the little sweet in the pot like way of uh saying to him hey you’re our guy you know if if they do find a way well the way they make

Nestor Aparicio 33:35
him they’re the guys are paying the most money

Luke Jones 33:37
sure sure sure paying more well and he and he’s he’s going to get more than him. I mean, a lefty that pitches like that, Trevor Rogers going to do well for himself wherever it ends up being. I I think he’s going to get a nice contract. I’m not saying he he’s going to you know become one of the very highest paid pitchers in baseball. Let’s not get nuts, but he’s going to do well for himself. So whether whether it’s in Baltimore or elsewhere. So, but to answer your question because you asked, and and and it’s fine. Right now, the rotation: Bradish, Boz, Brandon Young. They have some other internal candidates that are interesting. That you know, I’m not necessarily going out and signing two pitchers to long-term deals. You know, to to kind of put it in, look at it through that lens. The bullpen. I already rattled off all those names, there’s a lot of inventory there. Could they, could they have an opening day bullpen of guys that are already on their roster right now, and maybe it’s good enough? I guess hypothetically, if you if you tell me Ryan Helsley and Felix Batista are going to be healthy all year next year, then okay, you could probably sell me on that. I would still like another high leverage arm to throw into the the top three, let’s say. So, but then the position players. I think Elias would tell you Westburg can be back and fine. That’s what he would think. I mean, he’s going to be back. Is it going to be fine? I don’t know that. And and here’s a real question. Okay, even if you sell me on the idea that he’s healthy enough to play 130 plus games, you know. Say there’s one IL stint or two IL stints, but nothing major, and he’s back. And let’s say he’s ready to play infield by the start of the season, especially especially if it’s delayed to May or June, then then he definitely should be ready for the start of the season. Is he a third baseman or is he a second baseman? Does the arm dictate him needing to be a second baseman more so than a third base. By the way, I’m looking

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Nestor Aparicio 35:21
at his stats. He’s never stunk.

Luke Jones 35:24
You know what I mean? I know.

Nestor Aparicio 35:24
Like of of all the guy, I just forget availability has to be pardoned. I liked him and how much I like him as a player. You know, apparently I he he and I wouldn’t get along very well at all politically. But but from a player standpoint, you know, he’s more of an is to me than Jackson Holiday, maybe not Passio, you know, but like he’s he’s an is to me, Jordan. See, I see, I

Luke Jones 35:49
can’t I can’t put him in that con in in that category because availability is paramount, right? I mean, he’s got to stay on the field. I’m, don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying you know this isn’t me releasing him or aiming to trade him, or anything like that, but I don’t know what that what it looks like. Is it possible with coming off of Tommy John, even though his arm’s healthy, is going to be as strong as it was before? And if not, or if you say you’re trying to keep him healthy, do you kind of kind of earmark him to be a second baseman moving forward, and then what does that mean for Jackson Holiday, right? Is Jackson Holiday someone that you could say work out in the outfield all winter, right? Because I I know other people have suggested that he’s got speed. You know, could he be a center fielder? I don’t know. I mean, we’ve seen other middle infielders in the history of the game become a center fielder. That’s not unheard of. I don’t know if he can do it, right? But but the Westberg thing that that could be part. You know, I’ll give you another name, Blaze Alexander. What are you going to do with him? He hit at a level from May on. He hit like a guy that should be in the lineup just about every day. Now I don’t know if he’s got to prove he continues to do that, but if he’s going to hit 300 and and hit like he did, I don’t want him to just be my utility guy. Now you could you could morph into a Melvin Mora super you know Melvin Mora Ben Zobrist super utility kind of role of you know and get well somebody’s going to get

Nestor Aparicio 37:20
hurt around here. To your point, sure,

Luke Jones 37:21
sure. So, but, but you have those guys. You have Encarnacion Strand. We’ve already talked about Mayo. I mean, what’s going to happen with Gunner Henderson? I assume if you’re keeping Gunner, you’re probably not moving him off shortstop, even if you should. You know, that’s just a lot of names there. But man, that’s there’s just a lot of questions there. So

Nestor Aparicio 37:43
the biggest thing for me is Elias, right? Because whoever’s making the decision, sure, we know what a lot how Elias feels about all these players. He’s invested in all of them, and he’s where he is, and he’s he’s chose they’re his chosen players. This thing gets real different if, and again, this thing’s not getting solved february 10, and they’re coming to Dayton and having any sort of normalcy. So everything we’re talking about here is boujee right now because it’s nothing. Oh, but but

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Luke Jones 38:08
speculating about that’s also boujà. So like they are going to play baseball again at some point. So yeah, there there is. But when they do,

Nestor Aparicio 38:15
and the amount of time that the next general manager would have if there’s a next general manager in whatever way. If you don’t hire him by december 1, I don’t think you fire Elias in the middle of a labor stop. I mean, no one’s fine. Dude, it’s it’s un it’s uncharted waters for the modern era of how any of these places are going to run with billionaires running them that can afford to pay the ticket staff and pay the the you know the rank and file workers there for eight months during a strike, but while they’re not paying Pete Alonso anyway, so I mean a lot of weird stuff’s going to go on here that I’ll have my eyes on. But part of this really is how invested in Elias are these billionaire cats that own this team that are absentee? Because if he’s the guy running it, I think we could be a lot more predictive, right? And maybe not fully predictive. He did deal Adley. I was just going to

Luke Jones 39:06
say. I mean, he he just you know he just traded Grayson Rodriguez and Adley Rutschman within a seven month period, right, or eight month period. So I I don’t know if we can say that. I mean, I look. One thing I know,

Nestor Aparicio 39:17
he doesn’t value defense. His outfield stinks. He there’s a lot of things that we clearly just look at and say he doesn’t have he does not value these things because he doesn’t spend his money that way doesn’t spend his time that way doesn’t spend his draft picks that way yeah so like but I would think he basically you know what you’re gonna get when you get him though he you know that’s what it is well

Luke Jones 39:36
yes and no because I would think at the very least I would hope he has the self-awareness that he’s getting closer. If if he’s not on the hot seat and he’s not going to be fired next week, I think even he realizes if this thing doesn’t look markedly better next year, new owners aren’t going to give him forever either, right? You know what I mean? So so I think that’s where there is a little. Bit less of a predictive quality because, you know, he he has already traded Adley Ruchman, as I’ve noted going back to the trade deadline. You kind of look at their system; it’s it’s more pitching centric than it’s been at any point during his tenure. So whether it’s going to work or not is a different story. But you can see different qualities. But you know, I there was enough chatter within the industry that there were there was a sentiment out there that there was a non-zero chance that Jackson Holiday was going to be traded at the deadline. I don’t I don’t think it was ever likely. I don’t think it ever got to the point, you know, where where it was more likely to happen or not, and then there was a change of heart on one side or the other. Like I’m not suggesting anything like that, but I think there was a recognition there of, oh, maybe this guy isn’t going to be an aircraft carrier for us, is not going to be a pillar for us. And if so, if we’ve identified that, is there another team out there where we can extract surplus value compared to what we think Jackson Holiday is going to be over the next four years, right, or the next three years. So, you know, I I hear what you’re saying, and believe me, I’m not going to sit here and say with a high degree of confidence that Mike Elias has seen the light and everything’s going to be different and everything’s going to be hunky dory moving forward if he keeps his job, I’m going off of what we’ve seen. He had a 19-minute session with the media on Saturday, in which he said the manager is going to be back, and he said that’s my assumption when he’s asked if he’s going to be back. If you let if if your ownership and you’re planning to fire him and and you let him say that a week before the season ends. I mean, that’s that’s not a good look, and I’m I’m not even you know that. And that’s speaking as someone who thinks they should make drastic changes at the top and you know start over at least in terms of baseball operations, right? And and bring in a new leader in that way. So we can only work on under the variables that we recognize right now. And Mike Elias on this past Saturday said that’s my assumption when he was asked if he expects to stay in his role next year. So unless David Rubenstein and Michael Araghetti have gone dark on Elias and and haven’t said anything to him, and and you know we’re gonna have a much different conversation a week from now, where they’ve fired him, they’ve relieved him of his duties, and you know even though he’s let people go, he’s reassigned others, right? I mean, like doing that whole thing. I mean, I assume he’s gonna be back. So even if he is back, and again, whether you like that or not, you do kind of try to look at, okay, where where do they go from here? Then even does he hire another? Does he hire a general manager? Right, because he’s technically the you know he’s the president of baseball operations. They’ve talked about hiring a general manager, but here’s a question with that, and I’ve seen a couple other people make note of this, so it’s not. You know, I’m not the only one throwing this out there. Let’s say Michaelias saw the light to the degree of saying, “I have some strengths, you know, trade, restock the farm system, whatever. I have things that I’ve done well, and I would agree with him on that. I think Michaelias has done certain things well, but his deficiencies have been, frankly, catastrophic the last couple years in terms of how this thing is flaring apart. I mean,

Nestor Aparicio 43:27
from a leadership standpoint, describing the fact that he fired his manager and hid for four days. Sure, sure, no doubt. But even from a baseball standpoint, below the bar of anything that I would allow to run anything in my company, fair enough. Life, I’m not my personal life in any like in any way, it’s it’s just gross. By the way, he and Araghetti are both Yale guys, so there’s probably some you know some some some some some some you know relationship there. Maybe maybe not. Yeah.

Luke Jones 43:51
Um, but Araghetti’s

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Nestor Aparicio 43:53
going to be the one making this decision more than Rubenstein, who doesn’t know anything about baseball.

Luke Jones 43:56
I mean,

Nestor Aparicio 43:57
Arigetti thinks

Luke Jones 43:57
I would think at a minimum whether he’s truly officially finally making the decision or not, he would be the catalyst pushing for a change much more. I would wholeheartedly agree with that.

Nestor Aparicio 44:08
My my, but sources told me he was the catalyst in in Alonso, the money part of we need that kind of guy because Arietti watches baseball and he likes the Mets. Fair

Luke Jones 44:16
enough, fair enough. Yeah, yeah. I mean, he he definitely as much. I mean, not that Rubinstein, you know, has you know throwing the caps and all that. That’s all gone by the and and you know you see him pop up for these extensions, which makes it even

Nestor Aparicio 44:31
more phony. Makes the whole thing. No, the buying the beers. I I don’t want to let these guys. Now I’m not going to gloss over these guys being fine. I was trying to make part of it. They’re the ones going to make all these decisions. I mean, everything we’re talking about. Understand, I was trying to make the point led by them. Yeah,

8

Luke Jones 44:45
I was in the middle of a point. That’s why I’m trying to. But I made mention of the idea, the hypothetical idea of Elias hiring a general manager and recognizing, okay, I do well with A, B, and C, but X, Y, and Z, I’ve been. Bad, like we’ve been bad at this. Well, that’s my

Nestor Aparicio 45:02
point of the Yale guy sticking together and him wanting to say, “Hey, look, let’s. If if you’re a real management thing, you say, “Look, Mike, you’re great at this, and great. We we love you. We’ll keep you here. Do you want to go work for the Royals? Okay, go. You know, like that might be part of this. I think you’re onto something here. If they’re going to solve it, if they’re going to solve it by like Mike’s got the keys keys to the car. Well, I do think it’s the most important thing.

Luke Jones 45:26
It’s not the point I was trying to make, though. I’m I’m talking about the the scenario where Mike Elias hires a general manager because it it’s it’s the Dave Dombrowski, Preston Mattingly structure that they have in Philadelphia, right? Elevating

Nestor Aparicio 45:40
himself and sticking around. Well, he he

Luke Jones 45:42
he’s already been elevated because he was given the the title of president of baseball operations, right? I mean, I mean that that’s what we’re talking about here. So, well, I mean,

Nestor Aparicio 45:49
the titles and Matt Blood and all that. Keep going, but you’re you’re just a title instructor. I got you.

Luke Jones 45:56
But here’s the issue: you can go out and try to identify whoever from Tampa Bay, or whoever from Milwaukee, or whoever from Cleveland, or whatever, whatever team you want to you you identify someone. Is that individual going to look at the current state of affairs in Baltimore, knowing that even if Michaelias is around for another year, and and that’s the assumption we’re working under. Are you going to be quick to jump to become the general manager, which isn’t really the general manager, even though it would be added responsibilities, right? I mean, I’m not not saying that it wouldn’t be a promotion, but if you’re with one of those other organizations and you have a good thing going and you’re stable, are you necessarily going to take that opportunity in Baltimore, knowing that one more lousy season like the last couple, you might be looking for a job a year from now, right? So I think that complicates that plan of if you do want to bring in outside voices, as Elias alluded to the other day, to what degree are you going to be able to do that in terms of identifying someone that might be a really talented individual who’s the assistant GM for whatever team that you fancy the way they do things? Is that individual going to jump out the opportunity or say, I don’t know. You that feels like that could be way more lame duck than I’d like to be going into. So that’s that’s a job that

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Nestor Aparicio 47:26
Eve Rosenberg Rosenberg takes, right? Like that’s that’s the junior assistant to the Dombrowski thing that you’re there, but you’re not really Eric DeCosta under Ozzie Newsome, sort of, but not really. Yeah, sort of. But

Luke Jones 47:40
at the same time, Eric DeCosta had more responsibilities as he became the assistant general manager, right? Keep saying

Nestor Aparicio 47:46
responsibilities, but then there’s the the person that makes the decision.

Luke Jones 47:50
Of course, but but I’m but but again, if we’re still would be Mike

Nestor Aparicio 47:53
Elias in this scenario you’re talking. Sure, I mean he’s and this would be him selling it up the river to Aaragetti, his Yale buddy, and saying, “Look, maybe I wasn’t over my head. Let me, and we’ll do this because it’s pretty clear in him firing a bunch of people and stepping out in front of us this week. He’s got at least you believing that he’s sticking around. Me too. You know that that like he’s going to survive this, and if he’s going to survive this, you’re listen. I tip my cap to you on all of this, like what you’re saying, but I still think, like at the end of the day, I’ve been here a long time. The billionaires that are running this thing are completely wildly unpredictable in all of this. Who knows? I think, and during this war that’s going to happen, it’s just such a weird time, dude. Yeah, I mean, and I think this isn’t a normal end of the season baseball conversation about do you keep the GM or not was it good enough or was it not? We all know it wasn’t good enough. Place is empty, dude. You know I’m saying like it’s it’s it’s moribund. But I asked myself as I sat in Costas listening to Nick praise Pete Alonso on Monday night. Is Pete Alonso at number 39? And my wife looked up and all the smoke was on the TV. She’s like, “Look, it looks like it’s foggy down at the ballpark. I’m like, “No, he just hit a home run and let the bombs off and there’s nobody there and the smoke’s blowing in. And I’m thinking to myself, “All this is great, and the place is empty in Moribun, right? I mean, like literally. And I’m thinking, the only two guys that need to be watching it. Katie doesn’t want anybody watching it. Don Rovey. Nobody wants anybody watching this, right? Especially now with the manager being a jerk over the weekend with Jackson. Just on and on and on. But if the two owners are in on their yacht right now or preoccupied with a family matter or a business, this or Donald Trump’s giving them the rose garden or whatever, whatever these guys do, they’re not in the stadium feeling it being empty and crappy and awful. They feel their spreadsheet and they feel this war about. To happen, and the last thing they want to do is f with hiring. No offense, Luke, a baseball guy. We’re not worried about that. Let’s worried about we got fund. We’re going to go to war. We got fundamentals. We got television. We got to go. They’re not worried. They’re not worried about who the first round draft pick, Bradford from three years ago, whether he’s going to be Al Bumbury or not, like they’re just not the stuff you and I talk about doesn’t matter to the. And all I could think about sitting at Kostas is like place is empty. It’s disgraceful. It’s embarrassing. It’s last place. I still ask them to put it on. I’m sitting in there watching the pregame show. Everybody in there’s bet on Harbaugh or bet against Harbaugh. They’re doing warm-ups. Van Pelt’s on. The you know mascot’s over screwing with the meathead guy with his arms up and ESPN’s on. And Major League Baseball’s ring delay. And I’m like, put the Oriole game on, dude. He put the Oriole game. It was three nothing. Bosary gave three runs in the first two seconds of the game, and I’m watching it and I’m thinking, I’m embarrassed. It’s disgraceful. It’s awful, but I bet Arigetti and Rubenstein don’t even know it’s happening, and that’s the part of it that really is discouraging for me. Because as much as Peter was a jackass and his kids were Fredo, they at least were paying attention. They did have a sense of embarrassment about it, which is why they never showed up. It’s why they never showed up with me. It’s why they never showed up at a bowling event. It’s why they never showed up because they were so embarrassed by how awful it was, and they were making so much effing money on it that it didn’t matter that they were serving Sanka and calling it baseball, Rio Ruiz, and all the years of awfulness and 20 years ago to free the birds.

Nestor Aparicio 51:37
So Luke, I just continue to come back to. I’ll say this: We’re all you’re watching it. I’m but Aaron Stein, Eric Getty and Rubenstein watching, or they like Cal’s watching it for us. Or I have no idea, and I know this. I wouldn’t bet my money on it, on any of it, like literally to say that they’re going to play next year or not, or what the war is going to be like or whatever. But I don’t have a whole lot of confidence. We just spent an hour, you and me, even fighting about nuances about Michaelias. I don’t have any confidence in any of this. That’s where I am. I’ll start in with that. I sat at Kosters the other night and said it’s effed up. It’s awful. It’s terrible. Who’s gonna fix it? And then my next question: Who’s paying attention? Because I’m not doing a walkout again. I’m done. 20 years in, like I just sit here and get the popcorn, like I did with Harbaugh. I don’t even stay awake watching him get his ass kicked Monday night because I don’t care that much. I kid around about it, but I’m not up all night like sticking needles into the John Harbaugh pin. And with the Orioles, it’s exact opposite. I want to see them thrive. That’s why I did free the birds 20 years ago yesterday. It’s why I put so much effort into it. It’s why I still sit here and get out of bed at six in the morning and talk to you about it and try to get new sponsorships with new to pay you to talk about their baseball team. And they’re going to just screw everybody over the next six months. And these two guys that own it who are going to be ready to charge you $22 for a beer once it opens up? I’m not sure they care enough about anything that we’ve talked about in regard to Mike Elias that we care so much. Alan’s going to gather. Caspar Wells gave his life to it coming out of Schenectady. That I, I just don’t. I’m not convinced these guys care about anything other than the war that’s about to happen. And that’s why Elias is sitting in the seat. Because if they were really paying attention, dude, dude, I’ve already said, I’ve already said he would be poop canned at 6 p.m. in the third quarter of the Cowboys Ravens game, and you and you would have to send a text out in the third quarter while they’re playing in Brazil, doing whatever they’re doing on whatever sod that they’re putting down Americana this week, but I keep-I don’t mean to be the jerk, but like they’re two billionaires that own this. I hope they’re embarrassed. I hope they want to do something about it. And if Mike Elias is still here next April, I’ll know it’s just like that creepy guy that cornered me on opening day two years ago, making me cry about being real about the authenticity of what they’re trying to bring the people of Baltimore and the baseball fans of Shrewsbury, and your mom over in New York. She’s still in Shrewsbury, but all of us, all of us. That’s what I stand in front of. 20 years ago, it’s what I stand in front of now. It’s why I asked the the bartender at Costason to put on the game Monday night, and I thought to myself, I hope they want to change this. I want it changed. That’s all I’ve ever wanted. I know how the old guy, the other guy, treated me when all I did was say, “Can you just? You don’t have to lower the beer prices. You don’t have to make the traffic better. The part. Can you just effing be nice? Can you just be good people? Can you just show up and be accountable and be authentic and be be of be one of us? Make me care. I I don’t see that, Luke, and I’m. It breaks my heart because I did. Free the birds.

Nestor Aparicio 55:00
The whole point of free the birds was the next ownership group. That was the whole point. The whole point was get me something in here that’s better than this. Get me somebody that cares. They care less. And and the fact that Michaelias is coming back, or if he is, and they’re about to go to war, these these guys don’t care. It doesn’t affect what they do today. It doesn’t. If they don’t,

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Luke Jones 55:22
I mean, if they think the ballpark’s empty this week, I mean, wait for a year from now when if they’re in a third straight losing season and on the other side of what we all expect to be a lengthy work stoppage, right? It was the New

Nestor Aparicio 55:34
Yorker that was throwing the beers out to everybody on the bar two and a half years ago, bullshitting me. Where’s that guy? Where’s that guy? Where’s that guy?

Luke Jones 55:41
Ruth will be in the pudding. And look, I mean,

Nestor Aparicio 55:45
I’m sorry, I’m chippy, but last place again, 20 years after Free the Byrds, Mark Viviano was right when when he stood in the top of Arlington and said, “F those people, three years ago. I mean, but but

Luke Jones 55:57
I mean, it comes down to like, what are you going to do about it? How are you going to fix it? I mean, it’s but like I said, even if even if you you can humor me on the idea of Michaelias being back and and saying you you want to bring in outside voices or hire a GM that’s going to have some teeth to his power, not necessarily having the final say, but like I said, you can have dynamics where there’s some of that at work. Who’s looking at this in the industry, within the industry? Who’s looking at Baltimore as an attractive place to go work right now? If you’re talking about the possibility of it being potentially a lame duck president of baseball ops, and I don’t mean that contractually, but I mean in terms of the the idea that even this ownership group, if you do bring back Michaelias and it’s more of the same next year, like I don’t see, I can’t fathom that you don’t make a change next year, right? I mean, but but I think everyone else in the industry, sees that and sees the other limitations of you know it’s not a big market. You’re in the AL East, right? All all those factors we’ve talked about for decades, right? And that’s where I say, are you going to be able to actually hire some people, some outside voices that are actually going to be quality outside voices that actually are willing to butt heads a little bit in in the name of good discourse, constructive discourse, or are they just going to be some paper moves, right? So and so that’s going to come in.

Nestor Aparicio 57:30
You know, the more you say this, the less confidence I even have three years into this that it feels like these people have stepped up. Other than the right checks, which God bless them, that’s good. They have

Luke Jones 57:40
spent money. They haven’t spent it well for the most part. The Alonzo contract, a year in, and by the way, even if you look at the scenarios of the Pete Alonso deal not being very good, year one and year two figured to be good, right? Better money than giving

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Nestor Aparicio 57:55
money to Santander would have been. No question. I’m not. I’m just saying the hypothetical of it, and the money they haven’t given to Gunnar Henderson and Adley Rutschman when everybody was smelling the roses, and they they wanted to give them a lot of money. Now they’ve given that money to Besaiwin, Boz, and Brad. You know, like there’ve been some real investments this year. That as you and I sit here, like you’ve already said, you’re not ready to go to war with Bradish as an opening day starter. You’re not ready to Boz. You’re not ready to elevate him. You didn’t strike enough guys, so you’re already sorry. Chip at their guys that they spent money, but they didn’t. But they didn’t give them number one starter money. I don’t disagree, but it’s money on the books. Sure, no question. And

Luke Jones 58:33
and let me be clear. I’m not saying that Bradish and Boz aren’t in my rotation next year. I’m just saying, I don’t know. It’s a tough sell for me to to say that. Oh, you’re going to be the number one starter, right? The opening day starter. So, a lot of work to do. Even you know whether whether Elias is going to be the guy or it’s someone else. It’s a heck of a lot to do. And yeah, you ask me if I’m encouraged by what I see strictly from a baseball standpoint, no, I’m not. It doesn’t feel like they’re on the verge of being able to build anything special, and when you’re stuck in between, man, that’s just it’s a lonely place to be, regardless of all the other variables that we will continue to talk about that are very, very concerning from a big picture standpoint.

Nestor Aparicio 59:19
Not only did I did Free the birds 20 years ago. I just went like 15 minutes longer than I thought we should or would go at this point. I think I just screwed Jonathan Shock. I I got to go go grab actors and and people. But like I I just I am passionate about this, but like I am also discouraged, almost distraught all over again 20 years later, when I think about what I did with Free the Birds and what it cost me, and just all the way through the last 20 years of trying to make this better and having whatever my reputation is, or people that would hear me on the day I die or when it’s all over with for me, is to say like all I ever did was love that. Team and it never loved me back, and you know what? It never loved anybody else back either. And I guess until that changes, it’s not going to be Brooks and Boog and Frank, no matter how much they win or don’t win. Because part of winning is going to be those kind of people. They’re going to have better people. They’re going to have to have better people than what they have. Better people than people that fire their manager and hide for four days. Better people than raise prices and send out a brochure. Better people than fake bull job buying beers on opening day, acting like they’ve done something when they’re a billionaire. Who’s just going to scatter when the team’s in last place? Again, I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us.