Longtime sports business and media insider John Ourand of Sports Business Journal talks crab cakes and the future of sports media with Nestor as the regional sports network model implodes around Major League Baseball.
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John Ourand, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
W and S T Towson Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively taking the Maryland crabcake back out on the road the tour begins on April 5 And we’re gonna go on all spring I got I’m lining stuff up man I got people Captain Larry’s on the list. We’re going on April 27. Data Federal Hill. We’re gonna be doing some stuff near the ballpark as well at fate. Lee’s my favorite shirt on top brought to you by the Maryland lottery is the throwback the 50th anniversary we kick it off on April 5 at costus in Dundalk, I’ve got great guests coming that day as well. And our friends at window nation 866 90 nation you buy two you get two free 0% financing for two more years. And that is good stuff. What’s incredible right now is there’s so much going on in the business space, sports business space I talked to Marty Conway about and often bring other folks on. This guy sits sort of at the top in the Sports Business Journal for many, many years. And a guy that comes out and honest because he’s got his own crabcake tour coming across the border because they don’t they don’t put them in Virginia. You gotta come over to Maryland to get them longtime business reporter and covering all the comings and goings of regional sports networks and leagues and franchises and and XF ELLs and USF ELLs and W t FF ELLs and John Randy’s here he is our defending champion best crabcake you’ve had lately. Where was your did you go to Costas recently? Or was it cost
John Ourand 01:24
us? You know, unfortunately, it cost us it was January 2. So like, it was very good, but it wasn’t a proper crabcake time. I unlike you I I rate the crabcakes to perfect scores, one families which was fantastic.
Nestor Aparicio 01:40
My wife would agree with you. My wife loves it and she doesn’t have a favorite but the families is mustardy. So you know, and it’s the only one that’s like a family’s crabcake that’s the Amaze. I’ve had
John Ourand 01:51
totally unique taste. Absolutely. Yes. And number two is Coco’s Coco’s pub. I just thought that it was a little pub, you wouldn’t expect there to be really good crab cakes in there but boy that knocked my socks off. I one thing I found you put me in Virginia, I’m in DC, don’t put me in Virginia. And that’s the, the farther you get away from the Bay, the worse the crabcakes come. And it’s just a truism that I that I figured out
Nestor Aparicio 02:20
I figured that out when I went to Frostburg and I went to well, Cumberland and I want to recap some legitimate service Frederick as well. You know, I guess coming out and honest for you, you are a national writer and international write about media and all that, but really at heart, you’re really local sports. I mean, you’re a big wizards guy, you’re big Terps guy you’re always sort of buzzing about DC and Baltimore, you come up the failures and get a crabcake go to an Oriole game from time to time. There. There really is something going on here right now with this Lamar situation. The Orioles Ascendance the Terps played last week still Preakness come in here. It feels vibrant to me again in some way that maybe the plague took away I don’t know what’s going to happen with Lamar I don’t know if everybody’s ever going to come back to Oriole games or not, but it feels like sports is relevant again in a way here.
John Ourand 03:12
Yeah, you know you mentioned the plague taking away and I think that definitely plays a part of it but man I’ll tell you just having hope not what I almost said on 33rd Street having hope with the with the Orioles is it’s just it makes things so much more fun and makes things like so much more optimistic. I mean I’m I’m telling you right now the Orioles this year have to future Hall of Famers on there and addley rushman and Gunnar Henderson I mean they’re going to the Hall of Fame. I’m calling it right now even though they’ve played
Nestor Aparicio 03:43
a little early for that John when we said that about Fred Lynn back in the day to you know I remember you know I don’t want it though combined we said that about KanCare heart at one point maybe by the way, man you’re an old newspaper head I’ve been having a lot of fun with this I went into a an antique store and a weapon at Springsteen State College and I scored old school John Steadman predicting that the Orioles when the 66 World Series before they want it, I had the sections I you know, I have the iconic this I’ve only seen this on like on mugs and on Copson on like, you know, howls and things like that actually have the real one now. So this Oriole thing and baseball season to your point for guys like us. It’s the heartbeat of everything when this thing begins and they have no chance to win before the season begins. But the game is about to change so much and more than anything on the media side that you cover. This regional sports network with my Sinclair buddies up the hill here. We’re about to see a media D evolution D revolution. I don’t know what the word would be. But things are about to change. And I don’t know if John Angelos is really equipped for that it Masson here.
John Ourand 04:58
Yeah, Masson isn’t really a Masson has its own set of struggles. That’s totally separate from what’s going on with with the Sinclair RSN, which are now called Diamond sports RS ns. And diamond sports runs 19 regional sports networks across the country. They just filed for bankruptcy. The problem with diamond sports is that they are they have more than $8 billion, billion with a B worth of debt. And the company itself is worth like, less than $2 billion. That’s so it’s a totally unsustainable business right now. And they have creditors that want to get paid, they have teams that want to get paid, and they had to file for bankruptcy. There there are the NBC Sports Group, they own a bunch of regional sports networks in Philly and up in New York, all up and down the West Coast. They’re doing fine. They’re
Nestor Aparicio 05:53
performing better that’s I haven’t read every piece of making profits. So it’s they also have other entities other than a baseball team, right?
John Ourand 06:03
Oh, absolutely. Yeah, but but even even like the the yes network is very profitable for the Yankees. Nessun is doing very well the Cubs channel the Dodgers channel, moustache and
Nestor Aparicio 06:16
should be doing should be doing well.
John Ourand 06:19
Matson isn’t where diamond is certainly isn’t where yes, network is or nessun is either so it’s it but it’s it’s not about to Masson is not about to file for bankruptcy. And if you want to watch the Orioles, this summer, you’re going to be watching them on mass or mass until
Nestor Aparicio 06:37
well, not, not in March. You’re not you know, despite training thing, John, you’re an Oreo fan dude. Like it’s such a breach of trust that you’re in the baseball business. You bilked every old lady who’s now dead for $3.54 a month for years and years who didn’t even know your baseball games were on everybody in the state that cable television was funding this like a utility literally through six or seven states. At one point, you could add an eggs and cereals games in the 90s before they built the Nationals and all of the money that the Angelo’s family is sucked out of profits in the team profits and the RSN screwing over the learners, all of this stuff. And then John shows up on Martin Luther King Day and doesn’t want to take questions about the relevance of not having a lease. I mean, I’ve written this many times and I’ve probably written it flippantly on your Facebook page incompetence doesn’t take a day off ever. And the lack of competence these people have shown here all along. But the promise of mass and and what it could have been and other than the Nationals fighting with the Orioles and no news departments, you know, bass channel fishing and hunting and I don’t even know what every time I put it on. There’s guys and hats playing cars, you know, in the middle of the night, right? Like it’s it’s never pretended to be anything that nest under the yes network was although, you know, John Angeles flew John FOSS around and they were gonna have a real network and all until like, oh, there’s a news department. We don’t do news around here. We hate the media. So they never did anything modern. They had old equipment, they didn’t HD, they don’t stream games. They don’t stream games in market. I mean, they don’t show spring training games. But the sprint training thing to me, has been for fans even worse, because it involves the fans, and it involves your primary product. It’d be like a band saying Come see us play. We’re not gonna give you the album. We’re not gonna you know what I mean? Like it’s the come on for the season that I would be watching the game right now the game would be on Adley rutschman will be on the replays would be on all night. And you would have a conduit to Hey, call the Oregon orioles.com Buy tickets, buy the plan by those special do get the bobblehead like they’ve lost all of that they lose they lose six weeks of momentum and then they roll out of baseball on a cold day next week. It’s it’s so poorly run and you know this because you see all the other teams are run.
John Ourand 09:10
Well, so there are two there are two things that to go here one is like if I take off my Oreo fandom hat and just put on my my business at the spring training games, don’t make money for any of the RSNs the even you’re a hardcore fan, you work from home, you’re gonna have it on I would too. But the viewership numbers that tune in that doesn’t make it worthwhile for the network to do it. What the RSS Do you remember I’m certain that the best damn sports show John Salley and our RSS used to try to make all make themselves 24 hour channels with high quality programming and to keep people all throughout the day. What Every RSN executive has figured out over the past several decades, is there’s only one thing that fans come come to see. It’s not the pregame show. It’s the live game. And if our team wins, they stay for the postgame. If our team loses, they turned it off right away. And so and so what the Angeles universal threats are 30 teams, that’s 30 teams, and it’s baseball, basketball, hockey, everything. So what the Angelo’s is figured out is with Masson people come for the live games. So we’re just going to focus on the live regular season games and and that that actually makes a lot of business sense to do that. The other side of the coin is what you talked about when you run a local sports network. And when you buy a team, you enter in a social contract with the people of Baltimore Washington area, so I’ll still put Washington up even though I’m the lone remaining Washingtonian that likes the the Orioles probably, but I’ll put both Washington they’re like suffering
Nestor Aparicio 11:05
John. Hey, we’re gonna be good for a while the nationals are gonna sell for now to
John Ourand 11:10
avoid the Nationals or where the Orioles were several years ago. And but there’s a social contract. And sometimes you do have to do things that maybe don’t make financial sense, like show a spring training game or to like, like a couple, you don’t even have to show every single one. But I would love to start to get my excitement building up the opening day by watching you know, how they can
Nestor Aparicio 11:32
put a camera in centerfield and have three camera ops and no broadcaster or just a radio guy and stream it on the on orioles.com. So people can watch it, maybe not even an HD if like I that’s kind of the fact that I can put my frickin show on the air on Zoom live. And they can’t, they can’t put a camera in their ballpark.
John Ourand 11:52
With an iPhone to Periscope, it is insane.
Nestor Aparicio 11:55
It’s insane. It’s embarrassing. I mean, it speaks to, they think that their spring training product is shit. And you know what I mean? And they don’t they, they’re not proud of it. They don’t want to show it. But they don’t even have the sense to understand that this is the dress rehearsal for the season. And this is the album for the band. This is this is the press conference that leads up to the season. This is the thing that builds momentum that can help you sell tickets and get people into the soap opera. This is how you feature your talent. Like it’s, they don’t even understand that. And like it’s fundamental that all these 18 years into having this network that they show to spring training games. It’s beyond frustrating. It’s mine. It doesn’t it doesn’t make business sense. It it’s hiding your brand. I mean, like it’s crazy.
John Ourand 12:46
Yeah, again, they know that they’re the audience’s that they’re giving up by not showing the the those games like even if they were to take, let’s say, you know, we’ll have NES and cruise to the game when when the Orioles play the Red Sox and spring training and we’ll we’ll take nescens feed, even that satellite link, they’ll lose money on it just because they’re not going to get the fans and they’re not going to sell the advertising extra wood and the cable operators and satellite companies. They already have the channel they’re always already paying for the channel so you don’t like again, there are two different ways of looking at it. strictly business it makes sense. You’re gonna lose money off of it. For the social contract track that comes with owning the RSN and owning the team. You should be catering to your hardcore fanbase, I think well, you would
Nestor Aparicio 13:32
make a decision in this offseason to say we’re gonna put eight or 10 games on because we’re good. You know, people want to see God. It’s this is it. Four years ago, we didn’t have anything anybody wanted to see. I mean, people are you are interested. I am interested everywhere I went today we’re Terps fans we’re in Ravens fans, we’re they’re interested because you’re telling me they got to future Hall of Famers? Well, I’d like to see him play. You know, it’s pretty fundamental. John Moran is here a Sports Business Journal, longtime insider for all things business. That the Orioles stability and the lease and the future and ownership. It’s fascinating to watch these NFL people. And again, I would be at the NFL owners meetings this weekend. If the NFL hadn’t illicitly taken my I’ve been 15 and last 17 owners meetings, John, so I’m not going to be at the Biltmore this week. But this execution of the execution of removing the commander. Everybody seems to think it’s some foregone conclusion. I’m thinking. You haven’t seen how the bad guy in the movie really acts Right? Like, this is an amazing thing to witness. And I don’t know where the Angelo’s thing ends, but I know Sparky thinks he’s going to own the team. Like it’s very apparent John thinks he’s going to spend the next 25 years in his mind, the way that the way he’s showing it that he feels like he’s gonna own this team forever. I don’t know that the people in Major League Baseball feel that way about him or his mother or their infighting The whole thing’s been bizarre. I mean, the fact that the old man is eating pudding, and every dirty, dirty secret that the Baltimore Sun or some media guy like you would have gotten a hold of, they put in a court document and they, they put their laundry the worst of worse stuff out into the world last year and then walked like, Oh, my God, and they got good baseball players. That’s but I don’t, I don’t know what this means for lease. And I don’t know what this means for 2028 or 29, or 30, and how the things going to be run.
John Ourand 15:34
You know, you mentioned, Dan Snyder, you’re selling the commander’s, and you’ll believe it when you see it, and it’s you see how you how he’s acted throughout the entire his entire ownership of that franchise. And it’s what the Orioles you know, everybody has waited, like everybody is waiting to see, see for the day that Peter ends up dying. And then once that happens, we’re going to know, then whether John is going to step in and say like, I want to be the long term owner, and you know, and trust me with his franchise, or whether he and his brother and and mom end up, you know, bringing in somebody to sell the team, I do know that there have been people that have been kicking their tires on the team, you know, and, you know, nothing can happen. While while Peter is still alive has been what I’ve been told on that. So it’s right now you’re just trying to, you know, look into into the crystal ball and seem like you just don’t know what’s going to happen. But those are going to be one, it’s going to be one of those two, either they’re going to turn around and sell and make a make a windfall off of it. Or John Angelus is going to say, like, you know, I am responsible for for building up a team right now that is going to be competitive for you know, at least the next decade, like, I want to see this through.
Nestor Aparicio 17:00
Well, John’s run around with Governor Moore and you know, run around Atlanta and take a pee pee in Sarasota and we’re gonna build the kingdom of baseball, just like they did on the beltway, they took it out to the beltway in Atlanta, and we’re gonna have this in that shot, like, okay, dude doesn’t even live here. You know, as a guy that’s vested in the community, right? Like, I’m wondering what the future of all of sports is here, because I’ve been on the air 31 years, and I remember we almost lost the baseball team, like and it was always predicted that ever better we’re just gonna take that team to DC never did Camden Yards happen. And then we had to go fight for the football team. And they just gave the football team a bunch of money to that, this anchor for our city. It’s so important. And more than that, as we learn with Machado, and you know, whatever that thing was with Joe Walter a few years ago, that it’s fleeting, you know, the beginning of this hall of fame run you’re talking about with Gunnar Henderson and Adley rutschman. It’s fleeting if people don’t come to the ballpark Adley rutschman turns out to be a great player. He needs to go get paid. We’re where we are with Lamar Jackson. And John, I’ll tell you, this Lamar thing. It is so thick and I haven’t even got it’s fascinating. I get it this far into YouTube. We don’t spend three minutes here not talking about Lamar Jackson, because everywhere I go, it’s the biggest story in the history of Baltimore sports my contract standpoint, it was never fear Ripken was leaving. You know, the rate lowest murder trial was certainly something that was there. But this Lamar thing isn’t on the field thing. It’s a franchise thing. It’s a race thing. It’s a quarterback thing. It’s a union thing. It’s an agent thing. It’s just all of that and I don’t know where the out is and this I I’m getting the vibe he’s going to come back and play here because I don’t think any other team wants him to the tune that he wants to be wanted.
John Ourand 18:44
When you talk when you go out in the market and you talk to to Ravens fans, do they like Lamar Jackson is tarnishing his reputation and they wouldn’t mind to see him go if they get somebody fall. I’d
Nestor Aparicio 18:55
be lying to you if I didn’t tell you it was based along racial lines, much like Trent Dilfer and Tony Banks was 20 years ago here when I took those phone calls and they weren’t pretty either. You know, I It’s there are Lamar fans. And then there are Ravens fans, I think if you’re a Ravens fan, and you think like a salary cap ologists and you think like he hasn’t played the end of the last two years, I think like a reporter in that. He was like team doesn’t like him very much. And I’ve been around there and I know for a fact that coach was pissed last year. I know for a fact that coaches was last year when he didn’t show up at OTAs. And I know for a fact the owner would be pissed that he’s holding signs up pay me and his Twitter is pay me and and then he doesn’t come to the playoff game. And there’s all sorts of dust about Harbaugh’s demeanor at the end of the year. What they said the NFL Network in their own media voice. And you know what Chad steel in their communications department was communicating to their league partners about his availability to come back and play and then him out on Twitter. The Aaron perform fellatio tweet to the kid from Pennsylvania side then there was the I was grade two, almost three. He’s his own doctor, and he’s his own agent. And this isn’t played well and he’s cost himself a lot of money. So it’s, there’s so many things you can say about it. Will the Ravens be a better team without him next year? No way. Will they be a better franchise without him over the long haul by not giving him $200 million and having him be somewhat mercurial here at this point, as a fan, you know, there was life after Trent Dilfer, there was life after Joe Flacco there’ll be life after Lamar Jackson. And I know the the way Bushati into Costa Well, we found him we draft him 32nd Will draft another guy. Well, there’ll be another quarterback here. They’re just not going to make a mistake and give the money to the wrong player. That’s been a philosophy they’ve had forever. But that’s really hard, I think to explain to people that love the excitement of Lamar.
John Ourand 20:50
Yeah, for the longest time, I thought he was gone. And I thought he’s gonna leave. And then when the Ravens put that bizarre franchise tag on him what’s called non exclusive. Yeah, not an actual franchise tag, but a non exclusive where you could still go and the fact that nothing’s happened since then, suggests to me that that the market for Lamar isn’t as high as as Lamar Jackson wants it or expects it to be. And so I’ve come one, I’m not covering this but I do follow this I do follow the business and I so I have an opinion on it. But I’ve come one at from thinking that he was going to you there was no chance he was going to be a small chance he’s going to be wearing a Ravens uniform next year to now i It looks like he will, barring something like that. And I have circled the NFL Draft, because that’s when all these deals get made. And if something something something he gets through the NFL draft and he’s still with the ravens, he’s gonna suit up again and September. I’m pretty certain
Nestor Aparicio 21:51
you assassinating me, John, Randy’s here from Sports Business Journal, I saw the current bad and housing routes, whatever the Forbes does the valuations. You guys all do valuations and different stuff. But the valuation of the Golden State Warriors has like, like, I looked at it, and I’m like, they’re like worth with, like the cowboys and the Yankees and like, so I’m thinking about this. And I’m like, the cowboys were the Cowboys, America’s team Yankees, the Yankees, you know, so you get the value on these franchises. And the the other Patriots won for 15 years, and they’re in a big market. I was sort of blown away that one player, one coach, one little era, that a franchise could take on a stratospheric raise in regard to a player and a thing doing that. And I guess Lemieux with for the penguins. I mean, we could go back through history and Tony Gwynn kind of saved the padres, right. So there’s things we could say these players did that. But when I saw that valuation, I thought in the modern era, wow, that’s an amazing statement that when you see a franchise value go up in that way, because of the play on the court, or on the field. I didn’t think that happened anymore. I really didn’t.
John Ourand 23:02
It beyond the play, though. They just built that that new arena. And that the new arena is right in San Francisco, and you saw it when Camden Yards opened, you know and it was like right off the highway right by the Inner Harbor. Like all of a sudden that raised the valuation of the of the Orioles way back when in the mid 90s, early 90s. And I think that also plays a big part of it because as the 40 Niners left San Francisco and like the Warriors, they’re the only one that they’re still the San Francisco fortynine is of course but they went to San Jose to play their games. The Warriors are the only ones in what is one of the richest cities in America right in the middle of Silicon Valley.
Nestor Aparicio 23:46
I’m gonna say concert there at some point for I see a basketball game. What are you covering what’s on your mind as you know, we enter spring and the thumb in the iris and thing I know you’re covering that because a baseball but the F ones kind of come from nowhere. I don’t get it. You know, I mean, the money and NASCAR and moving wheels and guys beating the hell out of each other. I mean, there’s so many things that are vibrant and profitable in sports right now. And you start to cover all of them. Where’s your mind?
John Ourand 24:16
Well, it’s in my mind is really on how people are going to be watching these these games moving forward. And, and so you’re seeing, you know, the when Netflix and Disney plus we’re going crazy. Everybody was spending all this money to try to get streaming subscribers and build them up and they were losing all these media companies were losing billions of dollars on that. And all of a sudden Wall Street. We said we don’t like that. We care about profits. And so now you’re seeing all these big companies retrenched. So at ESPN, they’re going to they just paid you know more than $2 billion a year for the NFL. They’re about to go and do a NBA deal. It’s going to possibly triple you know what they’re what they’re currently paying certainly double. Well, they
Nestor Aparicio 25:04
bet right on the NBA. Right? And, and I guess in the end, they bet right on firing all of their talent, right? You know what I mean? Like ESPN was the original sort of blood gang,
John Ourand 25:13
right? It’s all about the live games. And all these networks have figured out like that, that’s where our bread is buttered. And so the big story that I’m watching is that they’re gonna that we’re creating haves, the NFL is a have that MBAs or have baseball looks like it’s have, and the have nots, and, you know, Major League Soccer, it couldn’t get a TV deal done. So when it went to Apple, the PAC 12 is having some struggles right now. So where that line gets drawn, and who falls below that line, and who’s able to stay above that line is going to is going to be the most fascinating story on my beat for the next three, four or five years.
Nestor Aparicio 25:53
And then how that money at the big 10 level and to all these teams, how that affects their basketball programs and the volleyball programs and the NFL. I mean, there’s so the business of sports has evolved dramatically, right? Remember back when used to be a sports business? What is that? What did it? What do you do? You know, like that now, it’s, gosh, it’s an every minute of every day, and the people that don’t understand that when they fly in, and Lamar Jackson says he’s representing themselves. And they’re like, Well, that sounds right. And you should represent yourself, right? I mean, it’s amazing how much money he’s cost himself by not doing the business well, and the business is at the heart of all of it. And I think for all of us, seeing ticket prices go up and seeing where we are and seeing, like, I paid a lot for Springsteen, this whole model of ticketing where you one night it’s $5 The next night, it’s $100 to go sit in the same seat. People are, you know, they’re focused on the business because it’s affecting them. The business or sports affects how I can find my baseball game, or whether I can find my baseball game or not, especially in this market.
John Ourand 26:59
And you know that variable ticket pricing, it’s going to happen in media too. If you also you cut the cord and you don’t have cable, but the Red Sox are coming to town, maybe not the Red Sox, or they’re going to be awful this year. But the Yankees are coming to town or the all of a sudden, if you want to watch that game, not this season, this is like three to three, four or five seasons away, you know that that game is going to be maybe $5 for you to say like that’s a game I want to watch. Whereas if the Indians come there, the Guardians come to town, it might be like $1.99 or something along those lines.
Nestor Aparicio 27:30
Be very interesting to see people are going to pay to watch watch games. I am wondering when the NFL now that they throw me out of my seats, well documented you go read about that, John, but I paid for my seats for all these years. They threw me out I get a couple grand back at some point. They’re gonna put the barrier up and say it’s five bucks to watch the game this week, I guess. I mean, all this money from Apple and all this. It’s still free and we’re getting ads but at some point to your point, you want to watch the Orioles play the Blue Jays tonight it’s $1 and a quarter whatever it is, I don’t know what the market will bear but I think they think it’s gonna be a lot more than it is. I remember talking to the owner this this kid and people were gonna give them money to watch minor league nothing Shepherd indoor football and like they were gonna pay for a minor league apps and stream it. And I’m like, I don’t know, do you better just get people interested in your sport? You better just get people interested in baseball. You know, again, because it is a soap opera. It’s 162 games. You’re an old guy. I’m an old guy. I spent an hour talking about the 1973 season here yesterday. So you know what I mean? Like, I’m a baseball guy. Right? But my kids not and I don’t know that his kid will be. And I think for all of them that just think arrogantly because you’ve you have smelled this arrogance all these years. Oh, it’d be 10 bucks a game and elders were first place no all by it. I don’t think so maybe they’ll go to the sports bar. But remember when the sports bars had to pony up all the money for the fights and stuff? I I’m fascinated to know what this model is because it all feels much like the newspaper business, right? restrictive. It feels very much like a paywall. And every time I see people in media, nobody wants to pay 50 cents for you or me or anybody else to open a paywall. And I’m thinking, yes, do this for games. Be careful. They might just not care about the Hershey bears anymore. You know, literally
John Ourand 29:16
the one thing though, that I always point to in 2033. The only way you can watch the NFL is not the only way. But if you’re going to be able to watch every NFL game on broadcast television, the World Series going through the I think that ends in 2030. That’s always going to be on broadcast television. Every single NHL, every single NHL playoff game is going to be on traditional television traditional linear television either cable or broadcast. You know that Southeastern Conference, a big 10 Those are deals that are predicated on big TV distribution that goes
Nestor Aparicio 29:55
but what happens when the network goes bankrupt?
John Ourand 29:58
I think I feel Got pretty confident that Comcast, which owns NBC and Disney, which owns ABC are going to be able to keep those. Keep those up and running.
Nestor Aparicio 30:08
You got Nike baseball teams, you better figure out how to games coming on a couple weeks. So
John Ourand 30:13
diamond is a different pace than than the peers from big broadcasters.
Nestor Aparicio 30:16
I’m sure there’ll be over here to sit my suit. Hey, I get your podcasts, man, you do your thing with Marshawn. And you have one of my like, I have such a crush on Rebecca Lobo, I can only have her husband on and I’ve admitted this to Steve. So I never I would I would be a fan of Rebecca Lobo. And I’d be like this, you know, but you had Rebecca on this week. You have a lot of great great guests on your pod. Yeah, she
John Ourand 30:38
was our guest this week. He was fantastic. Just talking about the rise in women’s sports and how she covered the WNBA. And women’s college basketball got great. She’s talking about how she met Steve, which was, which was a great story, but it’s a podcast that we post it every morning, every morning, once a morning about 6am on everywhere. You can find a podcast but it’s a Marchand or in sports media podcast. I have a lot of fun doing it. Nestor it’s a hell of a lot more work than I ever thought it was going to be. I thought I make it look easy, don’t I? I bet you do. You sit down for 45 minutes to talk and then you get out right? Yeah, I wish
Nestor Aparicio 31:17
Well, I’m glad you respect my work. John are tours visit turtle find him if you see a guy looks like I’m sitting at a crab cake someplace. He stolen my stick. It’s okay. I you know, I stole the stick. Right.
John Ourand 31:29
So let me I just have a quick question. So where’s your go to place in Montgomery County, Maryland.
Nestor Aparicio 31:36
I don’t have a go to montgomery county. I I’ve been to places. I don’t have a go to. I don’t want to be mean I had one of I don’t. I don’t use the W word. I had a very unorthodox crabcake in Montgomery County last year, it had celery and they made it like chicken salad. It was really, really really weird. And they shipped them they had that shipping sign I’m thinking oh my god, it’s like people I used to talk to baseball players and this is no disrespect to the brickies people okay, because they have their they had their joint down at the airport, the family name. I had never eaten no brickies in my life and eon from East Baltimore, right? East Baltimore is spicy the crabcakes it cost this. They taste different than the crab cakes it fade these because they’re the crab cakes at Pappas are different. They’re creamier. They’re more Country Club. They’re there. They’re sweeter. In East Side crab cake is salty, and it’s Old Bay. And it just is it’s I grew up on the east side. So I go to a brickies all these years later, 15 years ago downtown before they they closed up down there and I got crabs. They put white pepper on the crabs. So like they brought the crabs and I looked at them and like legit all the ballplayers. I go to a brickies from my crib, dude, you ain’t even need a crab if you’ve gone no break. You don’t even know what a crab is. Like it like it’s not bad. It’s just your fingers don’t smell like Jay Oh, your feet you know, like your fans have no smell. You don’t smell like even eat crabs, like and there’s a little milder fine like white pepper. I like Asian food, you know, but like I just couldn’t get over that fake prepared the crab completely differently than I had ever seen it done. And I was 40 years old when I found this crab. So I would just say for you with the crab cake thing. My best advice to you would be to try them all, which is like and I’m not even being coy but like the Cocos crab cake that you love so much. That is a sweet Country Club style crab cake. Pappas is going to be similar that GnM is going to be spicier than that because they have Tabasco sauce. You know, less of crabcake very similar to that barytes On the pike has a delicious delicate crab cake. I will tell you over on the Eastern Shore if you go to suicide bridge.
John Ourand 33:52
You sent me to suicide bridge and I guess we only had the crabs I didn’t have the crab.
Nestor Aparicio 33:58
Well, I said your crab cake place and you didn’t get a crab cake. Well, we got like, what are you like a wizards fan or something?
John Ourand 34:06
We got a dozen crabs and I was like, You know what, I’m just gonna do the crabs. But they were so good. I’m going back there. I’m going back to it.
Nestor Aparicio 34:13
Oh man, I mean, I’m not going to send you down to the fishing creek down to well hold salties and so listen, I would just say to you on the crabcake thing. Keep trying keep going. You’ll find the flavor palette. I keep getting different ones. And every time I go I’m like there’s five or six styles. You know for the most part about how creamy it is how much mustard is in it how much mayonnaise is in it. What the slurry tastes like that the slurry is sweet forward or mustard forward or even worse, the Shire. I’ve caught a little bit of that in certain crab cakes. So
John Ourand 34:52
you know what? They’re delicious. You know, part of my scoring system though, is certainly about the taste about the Presentation of it. But it’s also like, you know what I loved about Costas, if I was driving, I was driving down the street, there’s no chance I would have pulled into that restaurant that looked like such a normal just like, you know, family restaurant, I totally, I would have expected I would, I wouldn’t have expected one of the greatest crabcakes come out of a place, Coco’s just a neighborhood bar, like another one that’s like, just looks like someplace that, like, even the suicide bread, like it’s right on the water, but it just kind of like you have to, like happen upon it so well. And it’s been
Nestor Aparicio 35:32
a search for me through my home state. I have, you know, there’s still places in the state I haven’t been yet that I need to go to. So this year is our 25th anniversary on August 3, I will have had the radio station 25 years on August 3. So we’re going to celebrate in September, I’m doing 25 oysters in different ways in different places. And I’m going to try to go to 25 places I’ve never been to. So I want to go to places that are even because I’m, I’m I’m a variety guy, you know what I mean? Like I like doing and seeing new things and new places. And this tour has just been phenomenal for that and meeting new people and seeing things in the state that I never knew exists. Beautiful. I mean, like Blackwater refuge, beautiful, Deep Creek Lake and they didn’t play football, baseball, basketball or hockey there. So I didn’t go right. It’s like Sacramento. I never been there. Yeah, Austin, Texas. I had never been there. So I’m trying to go to places and do things. But here in Maryland, doing this crab cake tour, it is taking me on roads. If you want to go on a beautiful trip, I’m going to give you a crab cake. That’s I don’t wanna say to greatest crab cake I’ve ever had. But it’s it’s in the conversation. And I would say I’ve never had a better crab cake than this crab cake. It’s a place called Old salties. It you have to drive you go to Cambridge and you just go south. And what you want to do is you want to take extra time, don’t be in a hurry. Eastern Shore. Okay. And you’re you want to go to Blackwater refuge and make time to do that. And you want to do the Harriet Tubman trail. They’re right next to each other. And you can get a little history. deep history. unbelievably beautiful birds, fish creatures, eagles, flying creatures, herons, people fishing, low line water, you’ll think you’re in Louisiana. When you’re there to some degree, it’s swampy. And then you go all the way down to the end, old salties. It’s in an old schoolhouse everything in the in the room is baseball motif. The owners of baseball fans and lots of old Yankee stuff and old Oriole stuff in the room old salties. But it’s a destination complete destination crabcake it’s not on the way to anything.
John Ourand 37:43
This spring. This spring. I’m doing it. And
Nestor Aparicio 37:46
when you get there, you’ll see the oyster shell the shells piled as high as the salt is when you go into the harbor tunnel, like and it’s the oyster recovery program. And part of the education that I’m going to have this summer during Restaurant Week is that the oyster shells feed the grasses and the marshland were the crabs. Without oysters. There are no crabs, the oysters oxygenate the water. So healthy oysters are the most important thing in the world for healthy crabs, no healthy oysters, no healthy crabs. So I’ve had to learn all this last couple years. So it’s been educational for me too, because I like learning stuff. So I just told you something. Okay, well
John Ourand 38:28
salties I’m doing that in the spring and for the tour when it comes to recovery County. Let me know I’m going to find I’m going to find a place fly.
Nestor Aparicio 38:37
I had a really bad crab cake and I had a really good crab cake at a place called Crisfield seafood.
John Ourand 38:42
Oh Crisfield in silver spring. Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 38:44
it’s right on the border. It’s just it’s a rock in the McHenry County. That was the first crab cake. I went with John Allen from Trump city devils and stone horses. It was really good but it was during the plague. I mean, the plague plague like mass front door shot. Two people in had to order it and bag and take it with you. We ate it in a park with a beer that we got upstairs a brewery right above it.
John Ourand 39:05
Right? Yeah, no, no, Christina. Christina. It’s great. My parents used to go there all the time. So
Nestor Aparicio 39:09
I’ve had a crab cake there. And I’ll give a thumbs up on that. The other place I don’t want to be disparaging. Let me say this. All right. And I say this with all the heart of a Baltimorean it was too close to Daniel Snyder’s house. Okay, to have a good crabcake Daniel Schneider. Thanks. crabcakes have celery and are treated like his chicken salad. That we’ll tell you what part it was. It was in Potomac. I had I had a upscale Maryland.
John Ourand 39:39
That’s funny. That’s funny. Yeah. Hey,
Nestor Aparicio 39:41
I love you. I appreciate it. Give me a plug. Tell me what they can do with you put a urine inside or I mean, you know the people that subscribe to what you do or people like me that are a part of the business. But what sports business journal does is so important.
John Ourand 39:52
Yes, sports business journal.com. I’m on Twitter or n underscore SBJ and I do the podcast with Andrew Marchand. In the New York Post, we cover everything sports media, we just geek out on sports media. It’s a lot of fun.
Nestor Aparicio 40:05
All right, well, I geek out on sports media because I used to be part of it totally threw me out. John Moran is here he is all thanks for speed Business Media. He is a crab cake lover, a Maryland fan and Oriole fan. At least if a Cavs fan, you’re not a raving fan. You’re your commander fan at all. I’m not
John Ourand 40:20
around that. It’s hard to be a Dan Snyder fan. I’m not a Ravens fan. But I grew up without a team. So I’m a big Orioles fan. Graduated from Maryland. I grew up with the like atomic Milam and Lenny Elmore. Like, you know, I’m a big term fan. Love the wizards caps. I’m a Washingtonian, except for when it comes to the O’s
Nestor Aparicio 40:41
in my Baltimore accent accent I would say he’s almost local. Oh, yes. We appreciate you man. Thanks for always making time to fade these get a crab cakes that you love that so much. And a shout out to Marcel over Coco’s for doing it right. I’ve known Marcela for 30 years, Marcel and I used to watch the Houston Oilers play together at the Emerald tavern at the beginning of my career. I found this Warren Moon throwback online so I’m showing a lot because I’ve been in collector mode lately, because I’m getting old and just the old memories. It’s kind of like you being a bullets fan. I am Nestor we are wn sta and 5070 Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking. Baltimore positive stay with us.