Yankees sweep at Camden Yards continues to bury Orioles’ October hopes

We keep saying the season is still alive because the math isn’t broken just yet. But are the Orioles after four losses in a row this week? Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Yankees sweep of the Birds at Camden Yards and picking up the pieces of a broken American League Wild Card race.

Luke and Nestor assessed the Orioles after a Yankees sweep and concluded the team looks more mediocre than legitimate playoff caliber.

Series Breakdown

• The Yankees sweep reinforced concerns about the Orioles’ offense: only 14 hits in three games and the leadoff runner reached just three times in 27 innings.
• Luke said poor situational baseball and weak defense, including a key Gunnar Henderson error, deepened the problem.
• Kyle Bradish was also criticized for not limiting damage after the error and for showing signs of fatigue.

Team Outlook

• Luke argued this result was consistent with the team’s season-long pattern: brief runs toward .500 followed by immediate regression.
• Both agreed the weak Wild Card race keeps the Orioles mathematically alive, but neither expressed real confidence that they will break through.
• The remaining schedule, AL East struggles, and another road trip were cited as reasons optimism is fading.

Open Questions

• What does the club’s outfield plan look like for next season?
• Is Jackson Holliday a long-term second baseman, shortstop, or possible outfielder?
• Should the organization shift from chasing this season to evaluating which players fit the future?
• Can ownership still justify confidence in Mike Elias after the roster build stalled?

• Host the Maryland Crab Cake Tour event at Koco’s on Wednesday, including celebrating the Best of Baltimore award, welcoming guests Max Weiss and Ron Cassie, serving crab cakes and related menu items, and having Raven scratch-off tickets available for giveaways. (@Nestor Aparicio)
• Begin tracking an upcoming Indianapolis-related topic or event for potential coverage starting on September 13. (@Nestor Aparicio)

Yankees Sweep

• Discussion centered on the Orioles being swept by the Yankees at Camden Yards.
• Offensive failures included 14 hits across the series and very few innings with the leadoff runner aboard.
• A Gunnar Henderson defensive mistake and an uneven outing from Kyle Bradish were highlighted as key moments.

Wild Card Outlook

• Nestor argued the series may have effectively ended the Orioles’ push.
• Luke said the team is likely still mathematically alive because the AL Wild Card field is weak.
• Both described the club as stuck in a repeating cycle of small recoveries followed by immediate setbacks.

Roster Evaluation

• The outfield was identified as the biggest roster weakness, with uncertainty around Dylan Beavers, Colton Cowser, Leody Taveras, and Tyler O’Neill.
• Jackson Holliday’s defensive home remains unsettled.
• Samuel Basayo’s bat is valued, but his long-term catching role is still unclear.
• Current roster construction was criticized for weak defense and poor positional depth.

Pitching Questions

• Bradish and Shane Boz were still viewed as useful core arms, but workload and support remain concerns.
• The rotation, bullpen, and veteran-pitcher strategy were all described as unresolved offseason issues.

Ownership And Front Office

• The conversation ended with strong skepticism about Mike Elias and the broader regime.
• Luke said ownership ultimately has to decide whether the current baseball operation deserves to continue.

Nestor Aparicio 0:01
Welcome home. We are WNST AM 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We call it Baltimore positive. We’re positively into a weekend here where the Orioles are home, but I’m not sure that it matters. The Ravens are in Minnesota playing more football that could get more guys that might be starters hurt. We’re going to be at Koco’s on Wednesday doing the Maryland Crab Cake Tour. I’ll have the Raven scratch-offs to give away. We had a great, great show at Fishmonger’s Daughter. I’m wearing my Fadely shirt because I haven’t had it on in a while. I do not have a Fishmonger’s Daughter shirt, but I will have one soon. We we had some fun over there this week. All of our friends at GBMC also Farnan and Dermer, Zach Dermer came out. We had our old pal Dennis Kalatzus came out and visited with us, and Bill Cole’s stopped by. We did some work with the Catonsville emergency assistance folks over there as well. And I thought the baseball season was picking up, Luke. It felt like on Tuesday we were going to play some big games, and I’m going to tell you what, like I don’t know where they’re going to get up from this. I don’t know how Elias is getting up. I don’t know they’re going to play baseball next April, May, June, whatever. I’m going to be doing our 35th anniversary and doing rock and roll around here while they’re holding up spring training in February and March and April next year after the Ravens parade, of course, with Lamar and he gets extended. But this Yankee series in these three games and 14 hits in three games and just the Yankees kind of put them in a sleeper hole and put them put them 90 night. They’re six under now. You’ll you’ll say mathematically that 79 wins is going to win the win the wild card race and whatever, but might yeah might go ahead. No, I mean it’s you’ve been out there the last three nights. I want to give you all the oxygen because I’ve only wasted time on television watching this. You’ve actually gone to to witness it.

Luke Jones 1:50
I’m not going to act like I’m surprised. You know, I wasn’t nearly as enthusiastic about the Tampa Bay series, while fully acknowledging it was a really good series. It it was a really good series and every team in baseball plays some really good series over the course of 162 so but I’ll give you a stat you know beyond talking about the number of hits the number of runs scored the numbers with runners in scoring position about three they got the leadoff runner on in an inning three times in the entire series,

Nestor Aparicio 2:22
27 innings.

Luke Jones 2:23
27 innings. They got the leadoff runner on three times, and one of those was Dylan Beavers with with the home run last night. You know, on Thursday night. So let’s use a football analogy. The best offenses, as much as we tend to focus on third down offense, what do I always say? And what have you? You said it a lot last year. I

8

Nestor Aparicio 2:42
learned this with Lamar. It’s Lamar’s lesson to me. You

Luke Jones 2:45
need to be good on first down, right? When you are constantly no outs or one out, nobody on. That’s akin to Derek Derrick Henry running into the line and stuffed on no on first down, as opposed to

Nestor Aparicio 3:02
the four out innings that Gunnar Henderson keeps giving the other team. Yeah,

Luke Jones 3:05
sure, sure. Or you throw an incomplete pass on first down. It’s like being in second and 10, and we know the number. Give me

Nestor Aparicio 3:12
five downs, I’ll make first downs, right? But if you only give me three, I got a problem, right?

Luke Jones 3:16
So, so they didn’t really have all that many opportunities. I mean, Pete Alonso had two of their four hits. As I mentioned, Dylan Beavers, the the one instance where they did it on Thursday night, it was a solo home run. Now I’m not I’m not begrudging Beavers for hitting a home run there, but it just speaks to how many batters came up with not just no one in run in scoring position, but no one on base. Period. It’s really really difficult to mount much offense when you’re in one out, nobody on base. Hard to have a three-run homer with nobody on base. Exactly, exactly. I mean, it it sounds like you know, like like we’re being obtuse here, but like it’s it’s very true. So they just didn’t hit the ball at all. And I mean, look, the Yankees they throw the ball well, extremely well. This is a Yankees team that doesn’t have Aaron Judge or Cody Bellinger, Bellinger or Giancarlo Stanton, right? I mean, like, and they haven’t had Stanton all year. But point is, as always, they are $5

Nestor Aparicio 4:11
million a player, right?

8

Luke Jones 4:12
Right. They are way less than full strength right now, but when you pitch like they pitch, and Gerrit Cole was really good on Thursday night, I’ll give them full credit. This is this is what there’s another 40

Nestor Aparicio 4:23
million. And

Luke Jones 4:24
then when you have a situation like the top of the third inning, where Bradish gives up a couple hits to start the inning, bottom of the order, and then Gunnar Henderson off a play that Jackson Holiday made a really nice play to get the force or what should have been the force at second, and that’s a play where Gunnar Henderson just needs to recognize I’m not going to get Jose Caballero at first base. I’m not going to double him up here. I’m just not. I mean, it’s we’re not. He’s too fast, and that play was a little bit too long developing to expect that. Get to sure out, make the catch. Put it in your pocket, and then you live to fight the the rest of the inning. Instead, it leads to a run and no outs, and then the Yankees score two more runs after that. And when your offense is struggling to score and you’re going up against one of the best pitchers in baseball, three nothing in the top of the third inning, it’s not over at that point, but you’re in a hole. You’re in a pretty substantial hole already. So, and then you make the first out on the first pitch of the next inning, or whatever, and

Nestor Aparicio 5:31
you’re in the hole. I mean, they have really quick innings when they come up for their Ikes.

Luke Jones 5:36
Sure, and well, and the other factor that was at work there specifically on Thursday night, that inning. It’s not just that Bradish gives up three runs and two of those are unearned. Then he threw 38 pitches in that inning. I mean, that completely transforms the first couple innings where it’s looking like maybe this is a night where Kyle Bradish can go seven innings for you. Because we’ve also talked about the current makeup of the bullpen and how guys are miscast and current

Nestor Aparicio 6:01
makeup of Kyle Bradish. If this is going to be a playoff team and their money invested in him, where all the announcers who are tied to the team are all talking about we’ve shut him down in September and like you know protect him, protect his arm and all that. Well, they’re six under 500 right now. They shut him down now. Yeah, like I mean, like I don’t. I’m not waving the white flag for them, but it starts to feel like this is the week that’s going to happen. Yeah, this was the week where I went back and looked at our own website and the way we talked about this at the beginning of the week, and really this 10 game stand beginning last week, and they got off to such a good start. Now it’s upside down already, and exactly what you suspected might happen, what I feared would happen, but was optimistic about keeping the season alive, so we’d have games around here when the before the Ravens play, that there wouldn’t be that lull around Labor Day where they’re nine under and it’s just over, and you’re waiting on final cuts, and we’re trying to figure out who the center of the Ravens is on september 3, which is still 1012, days from now, right? Like I just thought there’d be two more weeks of season. I don’t think anybody’s staying up late in Oakland, Sacramento, Las Vegas, wherever the hell they want to play next week. The Redwoods, they can play wherever they want next Friday, Saturday. Nobody’s staying away with this next weekend. I think they’re done.

Luke Jones 7:19
I mean, maybe maybe so. I’ll continue to say the the math is going to say otherwise, probably. And unless they really like, if they get swept this weekend, if if they, you know, if you have a two and seven home stand on the heels of an 0 and six or a one in five kind of home stand, then yeah, I’m not going to sit here. But

8

Nestor Aparicio 7:39
dude, they get swept at home by the Yankees in Lady Augustus. Nestor, I understand that. Like that, that to me is it’s poignant almost, right? Like it’s. I understand, but sort of like the way it should be for Mike Elias. This is the way he should go out.

Luke Jones 7:52
I, but but I’m I’m also going to say they’re not eliminating the third wild card spot in the American League.

Nestor Aparicio 7:58
I just don’t think they’re going to get up and give a fight now. I don’t think they’re going to get the 500. You know what I mean? I don’t think they’re going to do that thing that we thought they were capable of doing four or five days ago. This Yankees thing was very telling to me. Okay, and I think telling me honestly this was four or five days ago for 30 years too. So I agree, dude. I already talked. Look, I’ve kissed your butt every time the Yankees have beat the Orioles. This is three days in a row that I’m saying you’re right, but I’m

Luke Jones 8:22
just saying, like I’m, I’m not surprised by this. Like this is who they’ve been all year long. They they get to two games under 500. I mean they’ve done it five times since early June, where they get to two games under 500. And what they’ve done now, those five times, I’ll recite it once again. They lost four straight. They lost three of the next four. They lost the next two. They lost three straight, and now they’ve lost four straight. Right? I mean, this has just been the pattern. Now, what’s going to happen now? They will probably inch their way closer to 500 again, just enough to maybe kind of sort of pique your interest. You know, it might not be as dramatic to

Nestor Aparicio 9:00
talk about that next Monday because they won six in a row in St. Louis and in Sac. I’ll I’ll be happy to do that. Sure. I’ll work on Labor Day morning with you if you want to do that. I

Luke Jones 9:08
will basically say I won’t be surprised whatsoever to get the if if if they’re back to two games under 500 at some point in the not too distant future. And then you know what I think will happen? They’ll fall back a few games because that’s just that’s it’s who they are. For for as much as people have used the word inconsistent in describing them, they’ve actually been remarkably consistent in their inconsistency. If that makes sense, I mean that’s just that’s what we’re talking about here. But but all these other teams stink also. I mean that’s just it’s where we are, and right now Minnesota, who was swept by Philadelphia last weekend and looked pretty bad in in doing so, they’re leading the wild card picture. I mean, it’s just none of it none of it really makes any sense. None of it’s terribly inspiring. And and oh by the way, Minnesota’s going to San Diego to play a Padres team that. Has been, you know, pretty on fire of late. So, how’s that going to go for them? I mean, it’s just it’s what we keep talking about, though. Any one of these teams that are still hanging around look good, look like they have a pulse, play really well for four or five days, and then they just fall back to the pack, and I’m guessing that pattern’s going to continue. I’m guessing, I’m guessing that the Orioles aren’t truly done done in the mathematical sense. I’m guessing they’re going to have one more run in them that we’re going to be people are going to be talking about them in the terms that they did this past Monday. But that said, do I think they’re going to break through? No. As I told you, I’ve been out on this team for about two months now, but it’s where it is now. The issue is more specifically the remaining schedule, the fact that they’re going on another long road trip, the fact that they still have games against the AL East and they have not played well against the AL East, and oh yeah, you’ve got a Toronto team that has suddenly come to life. A Toronto team that sold off parts at the trade deadline, although they did more of a sell and buy combination. So, you know, we could keep talking about the wild card race. They’re last place in their own division right now by a game and a half going into this. So, I mean, we’ll see. Maybe they are truly, truly done, and they get they lose two out of three this weekend and they’re about to have a two and seven road trip against you know one good team and two other teams that are certainly nothing special. But that said, I mean this is Yankees team that was at less than full strength and has really struggled, really struggled to score runs at times of really over the entire summer since Judge went out of the lineup, and you know, not that the Yankees they weren’t scoring 10 a game against them, but you know, it wasn’t good enough. It’s that simple. And you know, as far as Thursday night, even though the defense let them down big time in the third inning, I was I was disappointed in Kyle Bradish. You know, Kyle Bradish still could have gotten out of that third inning without giving up two more runs, and he gave up the two solo home runs in the sixth inning. Right? I mean, when Beavers had hit the home run to close the gap, and then he gives up two home runs, the sixth inning homers felt like fatigue. It felt like it. It probably and it probably was, but well, but he’s he’s a guy that you just invested in. He’s he’s one of your you know he’s supposed to be your ace. That that was a case where you needed to go out there and hang a zero on the board, and instead he gives up a home run on the very first pitch of the sixth inning. So so I was disappointed in Bradish too. I’m not I’m not giving him a total pass. I mean the Gunner era was very critical. There’s no doubt about that.

Luke Jones 12:38
But I’m not going to sit here and say that I’m not going to feel sorry for Kyle Bradish in the way that I didn’t Shane I have for Shane Boz for so much of the season where you know he’s had these starts where I think he pitched very very well and you know Bradish is having a good year like it’s not like he’s been I just didn’t think he was very good on Thursday night and his post game comments at his locker you could tell he wasn’t very happy with how he pitched. He wasn’t. He said, “Look, some errors are going to happen sometimes. Like you, that doesn’t give you license to just completely fall apart after that. And again, it was a 38 pitch inning that he still had opportunities to get out of it even after that. They pitched a what five more batters in that inning, and still gave up three more hits after that. So you know, it’s just it’s another example of this team not being good enough. They’re not awful, but they’re not good. I mean, just point point blank, they’re not good. And beating the sear, beating the Rays in a series, or going out to Dodger Stadium and winning a series. I mean, those aren’t those aren’t calling cards of a good team. That’s those are calling cards of the ebbs and flow of a 162 game season. I mean, this team has some stretches where they play better baseball. That’s true of every team. Like last year’s team had some stretches where they played well. Last year’s team was worse than this year’s team, the the rebuild era. Now, not as many of them because the rebuild era type teams are especially terrible. But even those teams have some stretches where, you know, they win a few series against some some good teams. I mean, it’s not it’s not like football, right? I mean, there’s there’s a lot of variance that that goes into it, and I’ve said it as as cliche as it sounds. If you really look at how they profiled this team, has done it all year, where it is one or two steps forward, immediately followed by two or three steps back, and that’s just been the pattern, and that’s why they’ve been under 500 since early May. Like it’s not, it’s not any like big secret. They’re just they’re not that they’re not good enough to sustain success for more than a series, a week. You know, they’re they had a two week stretch in late May and early June, and every single time they fall back to being this, which is. The mediocre to you know slightly mediocre to below average, not slightly below average ball club.

8

Nestor Aparicio 15:07
He is Luke Jones. We are covering baseball for a little while. We got some football this weekend as well. We’re doing the Maryland Crab Cake Tour presented by the Maryland Lottery in partnership with GBMC and our partners at Farnham and Derma. They are the comfort guys. Zach Dermer was out with us this week. We’ll be at Koco’s next Wednesday, celebrating my best the Baltimore Award and reinvention. I’m going to reinvent the tail with Max Weiss and and Ron Cassie on Wednesday, as well as have some crab cakes and hope a little coconut shrimp and a Greek salad as well. Um, I looked at the standings, like right, like National League, you know, teams that are coming on a little bit. The Cubs are coming on. Padres are going to make the playoffs, right? We know the Dodgers, Yankees, Rays. All of this. This next couple of weeks for them and the somnambulance after the weekend of going to St. Louis, going out to I keep want to say Oakland, but Sacramento, whatever it is, to athletics, the former home of Charlie Finley. At what point do do we start looking at some of these players, and you and I start saying, “Where’s Beavers for next year? Who’s on the team next year? And I don’t. We can’t even talk about next year without talking about labor, really, unless we’re doing fanboy booja. Yeah, you know, like literally, like sizing this up to say what are what are they trying to do except quote unquote win tonight, but like the evaluative part of Gunnar Henderson of the guys they don’t have under contract, like wrapping Bradish and Boz up in bubble wrap and making sure that their arms don’t fall off. Okay, got a lot of money in them. Pete Alonso, a lot of money in him. Pasayo, let’s get him right. He’s young. Get him moving around a little bit. Let’s hit him. Hit the ball. I saw he had a warning tracker the other night. Hit the ball 404 feet, just dead center. You know, so I’m buying into whenever they play baseball again, whenever that is May, June, maybe March, but probably not. I mean, I haven’t met anybody that’s you’re not optimistic. I haven’t met anybody that’s optimistic about this labor situation. And you know, I saw Kyle Goon’s takedown of Rubinstein. I mean, the people that run this place right now, and I and I throw it at Katie because she was so disingenuous with me that I don’t mind saying her name. Being an out-of-town person that has nothing to do with this organization, and being the people around here who’ve supported this organization, and speaking to someone whose logo might be on the screen, whose group had $120,000 in tickets that they’ve just decided. Nah, I’m wondering how many nass they’re going to be on the business side, but then there’s the baseball side that you focus on, and we talk so much about well, the Rutschman deal was going to lead to you know Aaronson or Evanson and these these other guys that might come up and pitch, might be a part of the Red Sox thing. Maybe this is the Scott McGregor, Rick Dempsey deal that’ll spur them on three years from now to say, look at what we got for Rutschman and Elias might be running the Cubs by then, right? Time passes in baseball for all of these guys, but the younger players and what’s going to be on the field next year. You alluded to the outfield problem, dude. They have a lot of problems. They don’t know whether Holliday’s a second baseman, a shortstop, or third baseman. Pretty sure Henderson’s not going to ever be a great shortstop. Pretty sure he’s not going to be here. Not going to sign here. The catcher’s already gone. Pretty sure Besai was not really a catcher. Like not the guy you won 130 games the next five years, even though you paid him. You don’t think you have the catching thing solved? Probably at this point. Man, man, a man, a man, a man. I I watch the lineup every night and say Leodi Taveras is not a part of the future. So it’s one thing to sell some of this stuff as prospects were coming up. I don’t know what Kobe Mayo is at this point.

Nestor Aparicio 18:53
I don’t know if Westberg’s ever coming back at this point. Right? Like I look at all of these guys and Batista. You’re trying to figure out whether he might have eight innings in him three weeks from now, what is your value to have part of this? Especially if you’re going to get fired, if you’re Mike Elias, or the sport’s going to shut down. What are we going to be seeing? I was going to say once this thing gets really sloppy, but if they go nine under this weekend because they can’t get out of their way, you and I are reading rights on them Monday morning, or they go one and whatever they go. They’re not whatever they are. We better start talking about what all these relief pitchers coming in. Who’s going to be a part of this when they win again? Who are the pile divers, as we see it?

Luke Jones 19:37
I mean, I think that’s a fair question. I mean, for me, I mean, look, it’s hard for me to not begin with the state of the outfield. I mean, this is not a major league contending club outfield. Like it’s just not.

Nestor Aparicio 19:53
They don’t have a starter out there for next year. If as I look at it, right? I mean, you wouldn’t want to say, “Well, we’re going to pencil Beavers in. We’re going to pencil Cal. They don’t have any.” Anything to pencil in, like at all? I mean, I’d

Luke Jones 20:03
I’d really like to see a version of Dylan Beavers, who homere back-to-back nights. I’d like to see a version of Dylan Beavers that plays really well over these final five weeks of the season, and you can say you’re writing him in in pencil, let’s say, at a corner outfield spot, but he’s got to he’s got to show more and show it more consistently than he has this year. And obviously, he had an oblique, and he’s a he was a rookie this year. And I’m not going to be too harsh on him. At the same time, the idea that you’re just going to hand him a starting job unconditionally is not, you know, that that’s where they’ve that’s one of the many reasons they’re in the spot that they’re in right now, right? Counting too much on the young core, but the rest of this outfield picture, I mean, Colton Kauser is a fourth outfielder. I I think it’s apparent at this point in time. I mean, maybe maybe if he’s traded and he goes somewhere else and some other team gets their hands on him in terms of rebuilding him, approaching the hitting in a in a different way for him, maybe that makes a difference. But the idea that you’re going to trot him out there on any kind of a regular basis, other than because you need his defense, is not a plan. And to your point, I mean, God bless him. Leodi Taveras had a really good April. Go look at what his numbers have been since then. And this is a guy that’s getting regular daily playing time. I mean, it speaks to where they are. I mean, for for an organization that for a while there felt like they drafted nothing but college hitters and more specifically outfielders, quite a few of them. So it’s just, yeah, I kind of look at that picture. Enrique Bradfield at Triple A. One, he’s had trouble staying healthy himself. Two, I’m not sure there’s enough development there to think that he’s going to be anything more than a fourth outfielder type. So, you you have some redundancy there between Kouzer and him in a big picture sense. So yeah, I kind of look at this thing and say, I’m, you know, Tyler O’Neill’s going to be in the last year of his contract. I mean, Tyler O’Neal’s been a better hitter over the last couple months, but you’re not getting what you thought you were going to get for three years, $49.5 million. Are you going to have a

Nestor Aparicio 22:15
roster spot on him? Yeah, for

Luke Jones 22:17
for at least the time, you know, is there a move to be made where you pay down, you you trade a bad contract for another one one year left into the deal. That’s plausible. Um, you know, not likely, probably not, but it’s plausible at least if you take on, you know, some other position. You know, someone has a bad contract and you say, hey, we we kind of like this guy. Some other team says, hey, we have a need for someone like Tyler O’Neill, especially if it rids us of this contract, right? So, but it’s tough. I mean, the outfield, like who who’s going to be the pillar at least with some of the other issues that you laid out there, and they obviously have other issues. It’s why they’re below 500 and have been for four months, but at least in the infield, you have Pete Alonso, right? And even though Jackson Holidays had a disappointing August on the heels of a great July, he’s going to be, I assume, unless they move him to the outfield. And and look, that that could be honestly a talking point. I, you know, I I know there have been people that have opined that Jackson Holiday probably make a pretty good center fielder. I’m probably not, you know, not saying he’s going to be the best in baseball, but have kind of wondered if he would be better in the outfield than than as an infielder because, you know, that doesn’t really show great range as a second baseman, let alone any thought that you’d move him back to shortstop, if and when you trade Gunner Henderson, the

8

Nestor Aparicio 23:46
word is he’s a natural shortstop, and if they felt better about his shortstop, he’s a natural playing stop.

Luke Jones 23:52
Yeah, I mean

Nestor Aparicio 23:53
they would move Henderson to third base, and it’s he’s a natural when they had third base open. I would

Luke Jones 23:57
right. I would say he’s a natural shortstop in the way that he was drafted as a shortstop, but Kobe Mayo was drafted as a shortstop. Ryan Mountcastle was drafted as a shortstop, right? I mean, most most hitters are drafted as shortstop, center fielder, or catcher up the middle, right? I mean, like that’s that’s just a scouting thing, right? Because if someone’s a shortstop, the thought is you well you can move them elsewhere, right? They’ve already moved

Nestor Aparicio 24:21
well. Shortstop-it’s not any further in the big leagues than it is in the in the minor leagues or the little leagues. You know, well, little league, but but you know, making a distance of shortstop in the hole, whether you’re doing it in Charlotte or whether you’re doing it in Salisbury or you know the or the Montana Pena League, it’s the same throw. So the defensive part of fielding ground balls that are hit hard and moving around and being athletic and like I don’t know about Holiday at shortstop. I haven’t seen him. I’ve seen him at second. I’m with you. I’m like, I mean, I just don’t think that doesn’t look natural to me hit second base. It looks natural to me because he’s smallish. He’s not a six foot seven. Lumbering, maybe I’ve never stood next to him, but he he feels small to me. I like when I when I look at him on television next to the rest. He’s not

Luke Jones 25:07
tall, you know. But I mean, he’s got. I I wouldn’t say he’s tiny. He’s not tall, and in the way that Cal Ripton six four was six four. But his natural

Nestor Aparicio 25:19
bill would be more like Brian Roberts than like Cal Ripken.

8

Luke Jones 25:23
That’s you know right yeah yeah more like a

Nestor Aparicio 25:26
second base especially for talk

Luke Jones 25:27
especially if we’re talking about middle of his career Brian Roberts wink look Louis was

Nestor Aparicio 25:31
154 pounds like me and five eight and played shortstop that was 100 years ago you know what I mean shortstops are supposed to look like Kobe Maya they’re supposed to look like Gunner Henry but 6465 like that’s what Earl Weaver would say. I mean, more, but more so than the past. Sure, second base

Luke Jones 25:45
arm. Like the arm strength. I mean, I just here. And how was he a shortstop in college? You know, that’s what I’m asking. No, I mean that. But he was a kid when they drafted. That’s what I just told you, though. Like all these guys get drafted as shortstops. You know, like because when they’re in high school, or maybe not quite as much in college, but still even in college, they’re still the best player, right? The best player plays shortstop. So in the way that so many NFL players today, you’d find many, many, many of them played quarterback in high school. You know, at least they might not have been their primary position, but they played it at some point. Like that’s that’s kind of how it works, you know, for skill guys, but I think with Holiday, you just-I’ll give you a perfect comp. Look at how Jackson Holiday turns the double play and throws it back to first compared to Jonathan Scope. Jonathan Scope had an absolute rifle. Now he didn’t stay at shortstop because he was slow and just the footwork was not indicative of someone that was going to play shortstop, but there was never any question about Jonathan Scope’s arm. I mean that he could absolutely rifle that thing from second base. I mean, you know whether it was Machado at short or J.J. Hardy at short, you saw them turn the double play. I mean it was a thing of beauty, but a big part of that was Scope just had an absolute rifle of an arm. Jackson Holiday doesn’t have that kind of an arm. Now that said, because it’s funny because we brought it up, would that arm play in the outfield? I mean, good enough. Like he’s not going to have a, you know, you’re not talking about someone with a 60, you know, on the scouting scale not having a 60 throwing arm, but I think he could. It could be good enough, or or you do a prudent thing for once, and you just say no. We’re committed to him playing second base, and we think he continues to get reps there. This kid’s had a really bumpy start to his major league career between the idea that he was called up at age 20, and in hindsight he wasn’t ready, and then having the ham eight bone this year, right? I mean, there’s, I still have some optimism and hope for Jackson Holiday becoming a better player than what we’ve seen. Now, is that ever going to live up to one-one MVP kind of performance? Probably not.

Nestor Aparicio 27:56
You do, right? But

Luke Jones 27:57
right, exactly. But do I think there’s another level for Jackson Holiday to hit. I think that’s very plausible, you know, because again, he is only 22 years old. We’re not talking about, you know, Adley Rutschman, who’s going to be an. I think he can be an All Star at second base. We don’t believe that’s going to happen at shortstop or third base, given his bat. Yeah, I mean, literally, right? I mean, I’d hate to, I’d hate to move him to third base, right? I mean, you’re talking about already someone who’s been moved around. Already, someone who didn’t get a lot of reps at second base in the minor leagues. They’ve already done that. They’ve already played him. You know what I mean? I mean, they’ve already they’re already they dabbled very very little. But but I mean, like in terms of like suddenly saying, oh well, we’re committed to him playing third base, right? I I I don’t see that. I think he’s a right side of the infield, you know, he’s second baseman, or I would explore the possibility of seeing what it looks like in the outfield, and that would be an off-season project, right? Not something you do on September 13th. That would be, hey, Jackson, we want you to work out as an outfielder all winter, and we’ll see what it looks like in spring training, you know. But at least going back to the the original point, as far as assessing the roster and what it where you’re going in at least next season, at least you have some semblance of pieces in the infield. The outfield just feels feels very bare in terms of what you like, you know, you know what projection you have there, all of that, right? I mean, how telling is it, Nestor, that Heston Kerstad’s still sitting at Triple A right now? I mean, you’re telling me there’s not opportunity for him, and and it speaks to me that they just don’t see a guy that’s a legitimate major league outfielder. Now, defensively, I mean, we-I don’t like his defense at all. But even offensively, you look at his numbers at Triple A for a league where the offense has, you know, it’s been a little, little offense heavy. You know, his numbers are very unimpressive. I mean, he’s fine. Like he hasn’t had a horrible year at Norfolk, but. The fact that they haven’t even brought him up, and instead guys like Christian Franklin and Leo Divaris continue to be on this roster. I mean, I think it speaks volumes about where they feel he is. But but that’s the thing. You kind of look at it and say, okay, what exactly is in their system that’s really really close? And even if it’s guys that are further along-is it anyone that you’re really going to count on, right? So that-that’s where I kind of began. I just look at the outfield, and I’m just like, man, for all the promise, all the talk that there was about the outfield a few years back-you know, going back to the latter years of Hayes, Mullin, Santander. I was going

8

Nestor Aparicio 30:39
to say, yeah, that class was supposed to be usurped by Kowser Kerstat, right? That’s what this was supposed to be.

Luke Jones 30:47
I mean, Beavers. I mean, and and again, Beavers. I’m not. I’m not ready to throw in the towel. And then the kid that they drafted, that was

Nestor Aparicio 30:52
a speedster, that Enrique

Luke Jones 30:54
Bradfield,

Nestor Aparicio 30:55
right?

Luke Jones 30:55
Yeah. So, but but yeah. I mean, it’s like okay, they just drafted Eric Booth. I mean, he’s not going to be ready for at least a couple years, right? I mean, Nate George has has been hurt, you know, slash sick all year. You know, okay, there’s there’s like Irish, but but again, I’m not looking at guys that are going to be anchors for you out there at least in the near future. So you look at that, the rotation. I mean, look, my disappointment in Bradish Thursday night aside. I mean, I’m still excited about Kyle Bradish. I still think Shane Boz, with more representative run support and a better defense behind him, would be much closer to 13 and 4 than 4 and 13 this year. I mean, I think Shane Boz has been solid. You know, he’s got a four ERA. I’m not going to sit here and say that he’s been amazing, but I think he’s been pretty good. And I do think his team around him has not helped him at all. It’s been a little more disproportional in terms of the lack of run support and good defense behind him. So, so you have those two, Brandon Young. You know, is Brandon Young getting tired wearing down at this point in the season? I think that’s a fair question. I don’t mean that in the way that they need to shut him down today, but I do think it’s something you need to be mindful of the last month of the season. At least be really looking at it and asking him how he’s feeling and looking at the biomechanic data and all of that, but you know, are you going to re-sign Trevor Rogers? If not, are you going to go out and get another pitcher? Are you going to continue to try to go to this well of signing veteran pitchers, basically when it’s too late? Right. I mean, Chris Bassett’s the latest example of that. They they gave Chris Bassett a lot of money to not do very much for them this year. Same with with Zach Efflin, right? So, are you going to continue to go to that well, or is there going to be a bigger move made as a starting for a starting pitcher? Or do you look at some of the arms that you do have at Triple A and even at Double A and say, you know, we we don’t want to make a long-term commitment because we like those guys, or do you go out and trade a couple of those guys for a legit outfielder, right? Because that’s something you really need. So, point is, and I think you can tell, and I’m kind of bouncing around here. I haven’t even talked about the bullpen, but the bullpen is is an issue or a question or an area to address every off season, and I think that’s, in fairness to the Orioles, that’s most teams if if we’re being honest. But point is, they got a heck a lot of heck of a lot of work to do, and that’s bringing it back to the big picture question in terms of what is going to happen with the CBA and with the lockout, and when you’re actually going to be able to build a roster, and what’s going to change potentially with the CBA in terms of years of club control or rules, and how you’re, you know, even able to handle your own, let alone going out and signing or acquiring other talent. So, yeah, they’ve got a lot of work to do, and that’s not to say the cupboard’s entirely bare, because it’s not. But they’ve got to figure that out. I mean, Samuel Basayo, I I love Basayo. I I think the upside for the bad is very evident. But what is the catching situation going to look like? You know, they.

Luke Jones 34:16
I think on on paper, the fact that they went out and got Carlos Norvayas, I thought that was actually a nice piece that they were able to get within the the bigger scope of what they got for for Adley Rutschman. And if you look at Novaya’s, I mean, last year he actually did some nice things with the bat. Like, go look at his numbers. He swung the bat okay last year. If you can get him back to that, then your catching situation actually doesn’t look awful, right? By any means, you know. Still, questions as far as how much, how much beside your Sunday

8

Nestor Aparicio 34:52
catcher hitting 178, though, right? Well, of course,

Luke Jones 34:55
but that’s what I’m, but that’s what I’m saying in terms of what. Let let me pull it up because I. I don’t want to just go off of memory, but I want I want to point this out. Like Carlos Norvayas, who is 27, he’s younger than Adley Rutschman. Last year, you know, go go back to 2025. He caught 118 games for the Red Sox, 446 plate appearances. He hit 241 with 15 home runs, a 306 on base percentage and a .419 slug. I mean, he had a .726 OPS. That was league average offense, which you don’t get from many catchers around baseball. So I’m not saying he’s going to be that, but is there a version of him that’s in between what he’s been this year and last year? And if that’s the case, then you might have a combination of him and Basio. You know, Basayo’s not going to catch 130 games a year, right? I think it’s this is whoever it’s going to be with him. It’s much more of a one in one A kind of situation, not a one and a two, right? This isn’t, you know, this isn’t. I’m trying to even think what a Matt Weeters and Taylor Teagarden, right? Where Matt Weiders is catching. You

Nestor Aparicio 36:03
see Basayo as 108 games of catching first base and 30 games of DH. Probably

Luke Jones 36:10
a lot of DH, right? I mean, I’ll say this. I mean, we say it in passing because Pete. You want to see him

Nestor Aparicio 36:15
play 154 games next year? Yeah, you know, in and out of catching and playing, which and hit 31 home runs, maybe hit 256, right?

Luke Jones 36:23
And the thing is, if he’s going to play 150 games, because you want his bat in the lineup, that can’t be 130 as a catcher, right? We’ve we’ve seen that we’ve seen that story too many times. Adley Rutschman wore down, Matt Weider’s wore down, right? You if if you want to keep that bat, which is, you know that that’s his biggest attraction, right? I mean, at least with Adley Rutschman, or even what Matt Weiders evolved into being, the defense really was prominent, right? I mean, Adley Rutschman, the biggest thing he had going for him this year, other than the fact that he had a big April, was his defense was way better than it been the last couple years, so that’s still a big part of the calculus as far as what he what his valuation is. Whereas Paso is it’s the bat first, you know. So if you want to feature that and keep that prominent and keep him as fresh as can be, then it’s probably going to look more like him catching 80 games, him playing some first base and getting Pete Alonso off his feet. And by the way, we didn’t talk about it because you know it wasn’t the highlight of the game. But Basayo played some really good defense at first base the other night. That that looked good. Like he, it was funny. Albernaz was was asked about that, and he said when he talked to him in spring training, when he was getting to know him as a player, that he asked, “So, how do you feel about first base? Is that a spot where you feel like you really need a lot of work on the regular to stay sharp there, if if the need arises, or are you comfortable to just like go there? And he kind of said, “He can just play it, right? I mean, it feels like that’s kind of a natural fit for him at first base, as far as his abilities. Now, again, that doesn’t mean you’re going to banish Pete Alonso to the DH spot, but I do think as Pete Alonso gets older here over the next few years, he’s the other first base. He he, you know, you probably behooves your him and your team to DH him a little bit more often. This is why you don’t want a team full of Kobe Mayo’s, right? Like literally. Well, yeah, and that goes back to the roster. Well, don’t forget Ryan Melcastle was supposed to be on this team too, you know. So, so that’s where you yes, and that’s where I come back to the big picture questions as far as does this current regime have the ability to put together a roster that makes sense? And I really question whether they do. Quite frankly, I mean, how about the fact right now? And this is just more of a footnote for the moment. But right now, Nestor, the Orioles do not have a backup second baseman on their roster. They optioned out Jeremiah Jackson, and I get it. Jeremiah Jackson hasn’t hit since April, right? I’m not saying in isolation that I disagree with that, but think about this: as they’re playing the Rays this weekend, if Jackson Holiday turns his ankle and has to leave the game, who’s playing second base? I mean, is it Encarnacion Strand, who’s never played second base in professional baseball? Is it Kobe Mayo? Is it Leodi Taveras like how he played third base in Anaheim a couple a couple months ago? Now that’s a one game thing, right? I mean, if something happens, you you you bite the bullet that night. You do whatever you have to do to get through the game, and then when they put their

Nestor Aparicio 39:33
starters out there for defense, it doesn’t look great. So just find somebody out there that’s never played starts. I don’t know, you know. It’s just, but it’s just

8

Luke Jones 39:39
one. It’s the latest about of the punchline that is how little they value defense, but it also just speaks to how crazy this roster construction is. Now Blaze Alexander should be back in the next 10 days or so. He solves that problem, right? Because Blaze can play six different spots, so you get your super utility guy back, then you can do that, but. Right now, they don’t have a backup second baseman, and oh yeah, Jackson Holiday is the backup shortstop if something happens to Gunner Henderson. So if Gunner Henderson turns his ankle, you slide Jackson Holiday over to short, and then you’re still asking who’s my second baseman going to be for the rest of the game. So, I mean, that’s just that that’s that’s craziness, right? I mean, that’s just, and I understand why they want to do it because it makes them more flexible from a catcher usage standpoint, but that’s not ideal, right? That’s that’s that’s suboptimal at best. It’s

Nestor Aparicio 40:34
just as sloppy as the notion that you’re going to win baseball games with no defense.

Luke Jones 40:38
Yeah, I mean, sure, I’m not gonna. I I don’t disagree with that at all. So, but that’s just that’s just the latest example of, you know, you look at the roster construction and you just you scratch your head about this. For what this is supposed to be now, in contrast to what we thought it was going to be three years ago, right? We think about in 2023 when the Orioles were on their way to winning 101 games and having the best record in the American League, and thinking what it would look like three years down the road. The idea at that moment in time was, man, look how good they are, and the and the young core hasn’t even fully arrived yet, and now three years later to be looking at what it’s become. I mean, PU, and it’s why for me it’s really, really, extremely difficult to really take this seriously and just say that Michaelias is going to continue to get more opportunities when this thing has been botched as much as it’s been the last couple years. I mean, it’s just

Nestor Aparicio 41:40
last thing for you, because this is important. We’re heading into the week. Do you have anything on the on the Rubenstein thing? I mean, I know you don’t love talking about the ownership side of this, but everything you just said is Elias, Elias, Elias, and I get the feeling when we really evaluate this. As I’ve done this for 35 years, the owner’s everything, and I tried to explain that about Angelos, and that was the hope that this guy wouldn’t be a goof. This guy’s goofier than Angelo’s because Angelo’s lived here, ran around, blustered about. This guy runs around in the shadows and says things as a billionaire that get caught on tape. Let alone Epstein. Let alone whatever drilling he’s doing in Alaska that’s pissed off the you know the the the people that protect the earth, but just what a kook this guy has come off as. You’re gonna write a book on sports ownership. He’s got a bobblehead. I have zero confidence in these people. Like in a, I’ve met Katie Griggs, I’ve met Mark Fine, I’ve met their emissaries, I’ve seen them give Elias a vote of confidence. I’ve seen him sit behind home plate, looking like mr. Magoo, and then disappear to show up in D.C. and say he’s embarrassed by the baseball team. Like just the silly things he says. How are they going to deal with this work stoppage and front face this while we’re on the radio talking about Lamar maybe winning a Super Bowl. I

Luke Jones 43:02
mean, look, the body of work speaks for itself, right? I mean, okay, have they spent more money than John Angelos did at the end? Yes,

Nestor Aparicio 43:11
but just a guy at the Mets, right? Yeah, I mean, you can

Luke Jones 43:15
spend money. You can spend a lot. There, there have been plenty of teams in baseball that have spent a lot of money very foolishly and got road as little.

8

Speaker 1 43:20
Yeah,

Luke Jones 43:22
so. I mean, it comes down to this. I’m a yes. I did. I do speak about it in terms of Elias Elias Elias because he’s the head of baseball operations for for this ball club and has been for eight years now.

Nestor Aparicio 43:33
Only one thing’s going to change

Luke Jones 43:34
that. But who does he answer to ultimately? Ownership. And so if you if you have issues and if you have a vision that has short circuited, which this did, the rebuild worked for about two years and then it stopped working, right? I mean, their processes that that they had in place that seemed to work at one point in time don’t work. Yeah, Yankees would stop

Nestor Aparicio 43:57
working if Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams, and Mariano stunk. You know, I mean, this is where it’s at.

Luke Jones 44:02
So. so I look at this thing, and yeah, the buck stops with ownership, right? If you’re not going to have an ownership group that has the the requisite discerning eye to at least say, okay, we don’t know every detail, and Mike can tell us this, and Sig can tell us this, but what they’re telling us is not translating to success. So at some point in time, it’s one of two things, or more likely, the combination of things. Either their process has kinks in the midst of it that is leading to failing failing to fully develop, and you know go through the list of various processes of building a roster, building a bullpen, and all the all the different things that you need to to be a good baseball team. So you’re either having breakdowns there, or the original evaluation for players on which you were counting heavily ended up being a poor evaluation, and those players. Ended up just not being as good as you thought. Either way, that still goes back to the root of we’re not sure that the current regime is getting the job done. And then, as ownership, you need to make a change, right? It’s that simple. So, if they’re, you know, if if David Rubenstein couldn’t be more pleased in the way that he said that about Mike Elias at Kyle Bradish’s contract extension press conference. What a week before the trade deadline, or six days before the trade deadline, whatever it was. Then, I mean, okay, then Elias is going to stay in place, and I’m guessing a lot of these things aren’t going to change, and we’re going to continue to see a a half baked product that isn’t horrendous, but isn’t good enough. And being stuck in between is the worst place you can be. I I’ve mentioned this, and I actually heard someone say this. You know, I’ve some interview. You know, where they were talking about the current state of the Orioles and where they are. Where you look at them and you say, okay, they’re not a heavyweight that spends like the Yankees do, yet they’re not as good at Tampa as building and developing and doing things that way. They’re kind of, you know, the the idea was they were supposed to be the the best of both worlds in terms of the sweet spot, right? They were going to develop as well as Tampa, but spend, you know, be able to spend more money. And okay, they weren’t going to spend quite as much money as the Yankees, but the the Orioles were really like their secret sauce when it comes to development and all of that. So they don’t have any advantage. Like, what is their identity? I’m shifting to

Nestor Aparicio 46:39
think about the money when they start being counting, when Katie gets there and starts really being counting, like what is coming in and what’s going out, how they’re going to react

8

Luke Jones 46:49
to that in the off season, I’m interested in that. Sure, and obviously attendance being what it is, and attendance isn’t getting better, and a lockout presumably is only going to hurt attendance, as I would expect it’s going to just about anywhere, other than maybe Dodger Stadium. But I mean, it’s just there is a path for them getting this back on track. I think there’s enough for them to get this back on track, but I just my confidence level in the current regime is just not there anymore. It’s just not, and that doesn’t mean they’re going to make a change, especially when you consider the pending lockout and what that’s going to mean and the challenges that would present for bringing in a new head of baseball operations. So that might buy Michaelias an extra year. Some of these trades that have been made that have been well regarded for for the moves that he’s made. When I look at them in isolation, he got good value from for Adley Rutschman. But ultimately, getting good value in trades and having a good minor league system is not the full job. That’s not the full scope of the job. And when you look at the full scope of the job, which is ultimately being judged on wins at the major league level in a much different way than how he was judged in 2019, 20, and 21. Then how can you look at this thing and say that you have confidence that this is they’re

Nestor Aparicio 48:11
in last place again? By the way, right? I mean, like literally, they’re they’re going to finish in last place again. So so

Luke Jones 48:17
so to put a to put a person finish in last place and piss away 150 million dollars and have all your prospects fall apart to say, well, I made a good trade to get rid of our one one to get more. You lost 118 games getting that guy to get more prospects. Well, well, the previous regime lost 118 to get Rochman, but but yes, your point’s well taken. And but but the thing is, it’s you can say okay well you’ve got a top five farm system again it’s like okay what’d you do with the last top five farm system if if I’m ownership it’d be one of the first things I ask and just I’d want to hear what’s why is it going to be different this time seriously why is it going to be different this time and unless Michaelias would have an uber specific. Here are the things that we’ve identified that broke down and caused this to happen. Here are the five things we’re doing differently now. Unless you hear that kind of plan, and he’s not certainly not going to spell that out for anyone publicly because he just he doesn’t talk in those terms ever publicly. But if if your ownership, man, I better be hearing an incredible, extraordinary plan as far as what you’re going to do differently to get results. Well, it’s also

Nestor Aparicio 49:29
you’re selling that to your customers, whatever that is, whatever that is. I

Luke Jones 49:33
just I don’t know how you run it back in that way and get anyone excited about this team, especially coming out of what will be some form of a lockout, whether whether they end up getting lucky and it’s just during the winter, or maybe just you know bags a couple weeks of spring training, or if you have a COVID-like season where they’re not playing ball till June or July, right? The idea that you’re going to stand pat and maintain the status quo with this front office-I mean, I just don’t know how many you’d have to spend a whole lot of money to get people remotely excited about the idea of Michaelias and and everyone in the front office staying in place after what’s happened the last two years. I mean, I don’t think I’m being un unreasonable there. I think that’s just calling a spade a spade. I mean, I don’t know. Pete Alonzo’s been great, right? You and I haven’t given enough oxygen to just how how great and how as advertised Pete Alonso’s been in every way. Whether we’re talking about his personal, especially

Nestor Aparicio 50:36
this time of the year when when you know when the big yeah, he’s

Luke Jones 50:40
waiting at his locker. He get he gets all the things that it take that it takes to be a leader on the field and off. But Pete Alonso alone isn’t selling tickets for you. I mean, it’s just not the case. Can’t play

8

Nestor Aparicio 50:52
shortstop either, by the way.

Luke Jones 50:54
So I mean, it’s just all

Nestor Aparicio 50:55
right. We’ve had enough of this. We got we got fake football to talk about until they take until they

Luke Jones 50:59
take two or three this weekend, and then everyone’s excited again because they’re only a game out of the wild card. Because the American League wild card race is zombie baseball where no one’s any good. So, can you put on a

Nestor Aparicio 51:08
few pounds next few weeks and play center for us?

Luke Jones 51:12
I don’t think anyone wants me at center.

Nestor Aparicio 51:14
Yeah, not even long snapper. He’s Luke Jones. He’s Baltimore Luke. We’re going to be doing the Maryland crab cake tour at Koco’s. Even though wearing my Fadely shirt, that’s fine. We’re fishmonger’s daughter this week. We love all the crab cake places around it because they’re all locally owned businesses, and they’re all supported by places like the Maryland Lottery, our partners at GBMC, as well as Farnan and Dermer. Put us out on the road. I will have the Raven scratch offs with the Kiss Face Bird at Koco’s on Wednesday. If you haven’t heard, I won best of Baltimore. We’ve reinvented ourselves, even though you all hate it, because I’ve read about it on the internet. But at least there’s millions of you that hate it these days, instead of just dozens. And my mom listening, so appreciate everybody listening out at AM 1570. Follow along. We’re about to start a football season with some promise. We’re wrapping up a baseball season that we thought had promise, and I certainly have some promise with the crab cake tour. I’m looking forward to getting Ron and Max out next week. We got some great guests coming on as we get into football season. I’m going to start tracking that thing for Indianapolis on September 13th. And in the meantime, Getty Lee is two hours away this weekend, so is Alex Lifeson. So all is well in the world. The spirit of radio is alive. I am Nestor. He is Luke. We are WNSTAM 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking. Baltimore, positive.