Back in his #AlmostFamous days, Nestor Aparicio was the music critic of The Evening Sun in Baltimore. A more subdued version of him asked Tom Petty’s favorite guitar player about making rock and roll music and touring.
Mike Campbell discussed his role in Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, noting that despite changes in the band, his contributions remain significant. He detailed the creation of “Boys of Summer,” which was initially intended for Southern Accents but was later used by Don Henley. Campbell also explained the collaborative process behind “Heart of the Matter” and “Running Down a Dream.” He mentioned his current project with Patty Smyth, describing her music as soulful pop, and shared insights on balancing touring with family life. Campbell emphasized his passion for songwriting and producing, despite the challenges of being on the road.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Tom Petty, Heartbreakers, album recording, songwriting process, Boys of Summer, Don Henley, Heart of the Matter, song collaboration, guitar riff, touring life, Patty Smyth, music production, Woodland Hills, family time, guitar practice
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Mike Campbell
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Oh, trying to reach my Campbell. This Mike, Hi, this Nestor Aparicio, from evening sun in Baltimore. How are you? Hey, Nestor, you got a few minutes to talk. Yeah, okay, because I was called a few minutes ago and you were on the line. I wasn’t sure what the situation was. Has to work on the long gone, great, going, great. So after every night,
Mike Campbell 00:15
well, not every night for most of them. Yeah, it’s
Nestor Aparicio 00:18
tough, tough market right now at the summer. So to have the recording of the album, guys, seems like to get right into it here that your role is sort of maybe not diminished, but there are other people participating in what Tom Petty and heartbreakers do. How does that make you feel? Well,
Mike Campbell 00:36
I had fun making the record, if that’s what you mean, you know. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 00:41
it seem like from, say, hard promises to now, there’s a big difference in your role, within what goes on in the studio and how recordings are done,
Mike Campbell 00:51
not really, no. I
Nestor Aparicio 00:52
mean, Jeff Lynn hasn’t taken a bigger
Mike Campbell 00:54
role. And, well, he can’t. He took a big role, yeah, but I mean, as far as my working with Tom is pretty much the same.
Nestor Aparicio 01:04
So what is it like when writing a song with someone else? Tell me, like, how do you go about doing this?
Mike Campbell 01:11
Well, for me, my talent is mostly in music, not necessarily in words. So most of the stuff I write, I will work out a piece of music first, and then get together with someone and see if they can put words to it
Nestor Aparicio 01:29
the way that things went with Emily. So how long have you had boys of summer in the can before you even took it to him?
Mike Campbell 01:36
I had it, I don’t know, about six months. I guess I’ve been hashing it around a little bit, and Tom wanted to use it, but we were working on this album called Southern accents at the time, and it didn’t really seem to fit into that album. So Don just happened to want a track at that time. I’d never met Don before, but
Nestor Aparicio 01:57
how did you get in contact with him.
Mike Campbell 02:00
Well, this producer, Jimmy Ivan, that we had worked with, knew Don, and he called me one day and he said, Do you have any any tracks? Because if Jimmy called you or Don called you, Jimmy, Jimmy called you okay, and he said, Don Henley is looking for a track for his album. And then I remembered that track that I had, and I called Tom and said, you know, we’re not going to use this one, right? And I have a chance to show it to someone else. He said, Yeah, that’s fine. Go ahead. This doesn’t fit this record anyway. And so then Don I took it over to Don’s house and played it for him. And he kind of sat there and frowned. He frowned a lot. I’ve written the best song I’ve written in two years. So that the
Nestor Aparicio 02:52
way it happened. What about heart of the matter? Well, which is, by the way, like one of the nicest songs of all time. But I couldn’t believe it took a year to get that song off the record, because Don’s first tour, when he came around, he’d even play it right. And I said, this is the best song the album. Why did they wait to put it last on you? It looked like almost a throwaway for a little while. And I’m like, people have got to hear this song. Well, he
Mike Campbell 03:18
I had worked on a couple of other things with Don but I was real busy with Tom and stuff, and I he had recorded most of his album, and then he called me and said, Do you have any more tracks? And I said, No, but I’ll put one together. So I did one that night and sent it over, and that was that track. And we had to say, he came back and said, Well, can you change the key? And so I did it again, a different key, and brought the tape in, and we just over dubbed on it, and that was it. She had nothing to do with the words at all. No. John writes all the words. He had already had the words. And then, I don’t know if he, you know, I really don’t know. He might have had some of them, but I think he wrote, I know he was having trouble finishing them because there’s, there’s a lot of words in it. I think he got the track and then built the words around the track.
Nestor Aparicio 04:06
Did he ever ask you to play guitar for him on the road or because I know he, he,
Mike Campbell 04:10
well, no, I mean, he knows I’m busy and I wouldn’t be able to do it
Nestor Aparicio 04:17
anyway, right? Okay, what happened with our running down a dream? How did that get put together?
Mike Campbell 04:20
A dream was I had the riff, and I headed over a different set of cords for a while, and I guess Tom and Jeff heard it one day, and they and they said, Well, we can take this riff and we change this bit and we can make it a lot better, which
Nestor Aparicio 04:37
they did. So where did that riff come from? The riff you’re talking about the beginning, right? Yeah, I
Mike Campbell 04:41
just, I don’t know, I was just working on, I was trying to come up with a, you know, so hard to think of those risks, you know. And I don’t know what I was thinking about
Nestor Aparicio 04:51
that day. Seems to me like a couple of beers would help out with something like that. Yeah,
Mike Campbell 04:56
I don’t know I was, I just picked up the guitar and did it, you know. And. Then I thought, Well, that may be something, you know, when I put it down on tape, you just never know how many of these things, what’s the time you do that? And you think I’ve done it, I’ve written the best riff turn the radio the next day, and it’s like some old Led Zeppelin song or something that you didn’t realize. Then you have to ditch it.
Nestor Aparicio 05:14
Right? What do you have? Like, 50 or hundreds just sitting around taping your house? I have
Mike Campbell 05:19
a lot. Yeah, you know, I’m working on one right now,
Nestor Aparicio 05:24
right like today. You mean, or Yeah, so this is what you do when you’re on the road. You sort
Mike Campbell 05:29
of sit around your my mission.
Nestor Aparicio 05:35
So, I mean, after all this stuff coming out of Florida and, you know, the Heartbreakers and 15 years ago, and Tom putting his hand through a wall and all. I mean, you guys reach the pinnacle of your success. Seems, it seems like, or I guess, you could get bigger, but as far as now, you’re just really riding a wave of good fortunes. Here, is it as good as you thought it would be being a big star?
Mike Campbell 05:56
Yeah, I don’t consider myself a big star, but being a successful musician is what I always what I thought it would be, and more. I mean, being able to write like you said, like a writer riff, and then have someone write words to it, and then have a lot of people like it, you know, it’s a big thrill, just what keeps us going? Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 06:14
I’m not sure if something like running down a dream, whether it’s the riff or whether it’s the words, or same thing with heart of the matter, or boys of summer, for that matter, just sort of like you hear the songs and a lot of people don’t associate you with, I mean, you sort of anonymous outside of music circles.
Mike Campbell 06:28
Being a rock and roll star is not my goal, you know. I mean, it’s sort of comes with it. I mean, I don’t, you know, I don’t think about it that way. I’m a musician and a songwriter, and that’s, that’s what I that’s what gets me off, you know, like being on a magazine or or whatever, you know, that’s not really very thrilling. I mean, to some people, it might be, but
Nestor Aparicio 06:49
you can still walk through a mall without getting mob, right? Oh, yeah,
Mike Campbell 06:53
I don’t get mobbed. Well, Tom does, yeah. Well, Tom is, yeah. Tom is much, more visible than I am. You know, he has blonde hair and highly visible person. And I think sometimes that can be a drag for a person, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 07:09
I’m sure it could be a drag. So I guess won’t be seeing my Campbell solo out anytime soon, unless
Mike Campbell 07:16
I learn how to sing and dance like Prince.
Nestor Aparicio 07:21
So what’s up with Patty scalp? Now, how did that talk come about?
Mike Campbell 07:24
Well, I got a demo tape. There’s one of the I got several tapes, actually, last summer after the tour. And are you friends with Bruce or with her?
Nestor Aparicio 07:33
I have met Bruce before. Bruce played with you guys, like last year. Something Right? Yeah, we have bumped into
Mike Campbell 07:39
Bruce over the years. I think the first time was the non nukes. Hold on a second. My foods
Nestor Aparicio 07:47
here, sure. So you don’t want to make enemies with the food, food service people.
Mike Campbell 07:53
So the thing with Patty is I got, of all the tapes, I got, hers is the only one that seemed to have really good songs on it, and I have little free time. So I contacted her. Actually, you know who it was? It was Roy orbison’s wife, Barbara, called me one day because she knew them real well, and she said that, you know, Patty has been having trouble finding the right producer. And she actually that’s what happened, and she sent me the tape over, and then I called her back, and she brought Patty over one day.
Nestor Aparicio 08:26
Is it really kind of thing where she’s running the show and Bruce isn’t having a lot to do
Mike Campbell 08:29
with it? Definitely, she actually had her record deal with CBS before she met Bruce, okay? And she had started an album and then got bogged down with the producers, or whatever. What kind
Nestor Aparicio 08:41
of music is, sort of country fried or fried or No, it’s
Mike Campbell 08:43
not country at all. It’s kind of
Nestor Aparicio 08:46
kind of pop, but it’s real soulful Bonnie radish or something that
Mike Campbell 08:49
kind of, well, it’s more like Ronnie Spector, okay, it’s real intelligent words, and she’s got a great voice, like Ronnie Spector, when she can use that vibrato when she needs it, and she sings a little heart. She writes, I think people will be surprised at how good her songs are. They’re really good stories, good characters. These aren’t Bruce didn’t contribute with any of these, or just I asked her, after we done about three or four things, I said, Did you write any of these with Bruce? And she said, No, you know. And she really wants to do this. I mean, she had begun this before she met him, like I said, she wants to do this album without tagging that onto it, you know. But she’s going to be associated with it anyway. But, I mean, he may have helped her with some ideas here and there, but basically, I think she’s written all the songs herself. Well, I wrote one song with her, but mostly she just wrote, wrote it all herself.
Nestor Aparicio 09:45
How far into it are you?
Mike Campbell 09:46
We’re about 98% done. Oh, really, they’re just actually finishing up some of the stuff with Bob clear mountain. I think since I’m on the road, how
Nestor Aparicio 09:56
much do you work?
Mike Campbell 09:57
I work all the time.
Nestor Aparicio 09:59
How. Mean, how many weeks off a year do you take for yourself? And what do you do on your vacation? Kind of thing just seems like a guy like you, you’re behind the scenes. I mean, they turn up on album credits all the time. You just never turn up on the MTV News, you know, kicking over a hotel room or anything.
Mike Campbell 10:14
Well, you know, it comes in skirts. It’s sort of like you’re real busy for a long time, then all of a sudden, you’ve got two weeks with nothing to do, right? I like to work. I’m a workaholic. How long’s the tour run will be done? I think around December 1, and then we might go to Europe in February
Nestor Aparicio 10:34
to live in LA now, yeah,
Mike Campbell 10:37
12 years, 1215, area called Woodland Hills.
Nestor Aparicio 10:42
Woodland Hills. I was just out there about two weeks ago. I go out every couple years. I’m just intrigued by why people want to live there, you know, sort of, it’s just tough, you know, stressful.
Mike Campbell 10:55
We came from Florida originally, yeah. I
Nestor Aparicio 10:57
mean, what’s the difference? I mean, there’s, there’s
Mike Campbell 10:59
got to be huge difference, culturally, tremendous difference. Well, I
Nestor Aparicio 11:03
mean, just in living arrangements and sitting in traffic forever and, you know, well, we
Mike Campbell 11:08
don’t go and, you know, we don’t go to work at nine o’clock in the morning, so we don’t usually get into traffic.
Nestor Aparicio 11:13
Well, even if you want to go to a ball game or you want it’s
Mike Campbell 11:17
a mess, you know, it’s a lot of people, but I don’t know. There’s something about the energy of the music business. You know, there’s a lot of musicians live there, and there’s a lot going on the air. Is pretty bad most of the time, but on a clear day, it’s a beautiful place. You know? Why so many people have moved there, right? Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 11:38
and it’s just too many people live there now. I got a big party. Everybody wants to go, right, right? So is your future in production or what do you Well, production, I
Mike Campbell 11:46
don’t know. You know, production is just, it’s something that I enjoy it, but something I sort of backed into between tours and stuff. It’s nothing that, I mean, I don’t know if I’ll ever do that as a full time. I mean, I really writing songs and playing the guitar is much more fun than sitting there and telling someone else to do it.
Nestor Aparicio 12:03
Is getting on stage still fun for you?
Mike Campbell 12:04
Oh yeah, I forget how much fun it is until we get out out there. You’re
Nestor Aparicio 12:12
still enjoying the hotel touring and all that stuff. Or is that the worst part? Well,
Mike Campbell 12:16
I’ve learned to tolerate the boring bits between the show. You know. I’ve learned how to like, I’ve got some gear out to record with and write with, and keep myself busy constructively for a change. And it’s really, you know, it’s
Nestor Aparicio 12:31
not so bad. What else is there to do? I mean, hit the tennis ball around, or stuff like that, or,
Mike Campbell 12:35
well, yeah, you can do that if you’re in so inclined. You know, sometimes we go to movies or go to a bar and see a local band, or there’s not a whole lot of free time. I
Nestor Aparicio 12:47
cover sports too, and I’ve been on the road with hockey team, and it’s just brutal. I mean, the worst. I mean, Sam’s glamorous to hop on airplanes, but, I mean, I’ve only done it to a limited, you know, limited amount, but to do it all the time, which is truly be a drag.
Mike Campbell 13:03
Well, the worst part for me is, like missing my family and stuff. I can cope with this. I can play the guitar, right? Or I can go out and look for go to I go to pawn shops and try to find old guitars. You can get worked on. You can make things for yourself to do. You don’t just sit there and look at the TV for 40 hours, but that I can, you know, but the hard part is, when you’re away from home a long time and you miss your kids and stuff, you know, that’s to me, that’s the only downside to the whole thing.
Nestor Aparicio 13:30
Yeah, I still think people like look at a guy like Eddie Van Halen or something. He plays the guitar so well, and they think he must not practice. Why? Just you have to wonder how many hours in the day it takes to become that good or or to keep up your licks at least. How often do you go away from the guitar for a few weeks? Or do you play it every single day, no matter what?
Mike Campbell 13:51
Rarely a day goes by without playing the guitar. But you know, sometimes I’ll just, I’ll get busy with something else, and, you know, forget about it for a
Nestor Aparicio 13:59
few days. Was ever get to a point where you start losing your licks? You your list, you lose your shops? I mean, you
Mike Campbell 14:06
play all the time. It comes back pretty quick if you sit down with it and work out rust. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 14:13
I appreciate your time today, and I guess I’ll see you next week when you come to town. Thanks a lot. Mike. Thank
Mike Campbell 14:18
you. Take care. Bye.
