It’s very personal with Will Hinman, a peer counselor at the Maryland Center of Excellence on Problem Gambling, who shares his personal journey and the high risk of suicide among problem gamblers with Nestor. We all know about the number – and might even know someone who needs to use it – and we explored exactly what happens when someone seeks treatment. Hinman stresses the availability of free counseling and support groups in Maryland to help those struggling with gambling addiction.
Nestor Aparicio and Seth Elkin from the Maryland Lottery discuss responsible gambling and the impact of gambling addiction. They highlight September as Responsible Gaming Education Month, emphasizing the importance of understanding game rules and odds. Seth mentions the $1.8 billion Powerball jackpot, with two winning tickets in Texas and Missouri, and local winners in Maryland. Will Hinman, a peer counselor at the Maryland Center of Excellence on Problem Gambling, shares his personal journey and the high risk of suicide among problem gamblers. He stresses the availability of free counseling and support groups in Maryland to help those struggling with gambling addiction.
Action Items
Introduction to the Show and Segment Topic
- Nestor Aparicio introduces the show, mentioning it is football month and crab cake month in Maryland.
- Nestor talks about the Maryland lottery and the new Raven scratch-off ticket.
- Seth Elkin joins the conversation, discussing the recent $1.8 billion Powerball jackpot and local winners.
- Seth mentions the Maryland lottery’s efforts to educate players about responsible gaming.
Responsible Gaming Education Month
- Nestor highlights the importance of responsible gaming, especially with the legalization of gambling.
- Seth explains that September is designated as Responsible Gaming Education Month by the American Gaming Association.
- Seth emphasizes the importance of understanding the nature of games, rules, and odds to prevent harm.
- Will Hinman, a peer counselor at the Maryland Center of Excellence on Problem Gambling, is introduced to provide insights on responsible gaming.
Will Hinman’s Personal Experience with Gambling
- Will shares his personal journey with gambling, starting from his early 20s.
- He describes his introduction to gambling through a bookie and his first casino experience.
- Will explains how gambling became an escape for him, leading to financial and personal problems.
- He emphasizes the high risk of suicide among problem gamblers and the importance of seeking help early.
Challenges of Identifying and Helping Problem Gamblers
- Nestor discusses his experiences with people he knew who had gambling problems.
- Will explains that by the time someone calls for help, their situation is usually severe.
- He highlights the importance of prevention and early intervention in schools.
- Will shares his approach to helping callers, including empathetic listening and providing resources.
Support and Resources for Problem Gamblers
- Will discusses the various support groups and resources available for problem gamblers in Maryland.
- He mentions the importance of no-cost treatment and support for family members and friends.
- Will explains the different forms of treatment, including residential treatment, intensive outpatient programs, and one-on-one counseling.
- He emphasizes the need for a growth mindset and the importance of finding new hobbies and interests.
Educational Efforts by the Maryland Lottery
- Seth Elkin talks about the Maryland lottery’s educational efforts to raise awareness about responsible gaming.
- He mentions the series of videos produced in collaboration with the Maryland Center of Excellence on Problem Gambling.
- Seth highlights the importance of providing rules, understanding, and help for players.
- He discusses the voluntary exclusion program and its role in helping players control their gambling habits.
Personal Stories and Coping Strategies
- Will shares his personal story of relapse and the importance of support groups in his recovery.
- He explains how he found hope and a new mindset through talking to others who had been through similar experiences.
- Will discusses the importance of changing one’s mindset and finding new sources of enjoyment.
- He emphasizes the need for a comprehensive approach to treatment, including addressing underlying issues and finding new hobbies.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
- Nestor and Seth discuss the importance of responsible gaming and the resources available in Maryland.
- Will provides the contact information for the Maryland Center of Excellence on Problem Gambling and the national helpline.
- Nestor shares his personal experience of gambling at the Maryland State Fair and the importance of setting limits.
- The segment concludes with a reminder to watch the games for entertainment value and to avoid chasing losses.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Responsible gaming, gambling addiction, Maryland lottery, problem gambling, treatment resources, peer counselors, gambling helpline, financial impact, mental health, addiction recovery, gambling prevention, educational programs, gambling laws, support groups, gambling statistics.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Will Hinman, Seth Elkin
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 task of Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive. This is a football week. It is a football month. It’s crab cake month, Maryland. Crab cake tour back out on the road beginning Tuesday the 16th. We’re going to be at the Beaumont in Catonsville, where I have overlooked the lamb chops during the tastiness countdown, brought to you by curio wellness, but I have not overlooked the lottery because I saw the handful of pressure locks and lucky sevens. But on Tuesday, I will have the new Raven scratch off their in house. It’s all happening. Roz has gotten me all hooked up. John Martin is run off trying to get the Guardians into the playoffs. Meanwhile, Seth Elkin has come in here, crowing about the Steelers. Want to know victory, but I do have an Oriole pirate story for Seth, and we have a very special segment this month, because September brings on football, and football brings on gambling, and gambling now that it’s legal. And as I always say to John, I say to you, Seth, on the up and up for everyone here in the state, it’s so easy to do. I go back to maybe 1973 74 when I saw my first Flintstones episode. And bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. So I never had the betting thing. But I’ve had so many people in my life battle with this when they were dealing with Louie, the bookmaker who made the salads then a little Italy. And certainly problematic. Seth, I want to welcome you and Seth Elkin is our Recurring cast member here. He does all things communicating for the Maryland lottery. We have a good time. We talked about games, we talked about promotions. Certainly, it was a lot of fun watching my wife trying to hit that $1.8 billion last week. Seth, but we’re going to welcome, will him, and in we’re going to be talking about some things, but I want to give you a little bit of oxygen, because this is an important segment I know to you. But $1.8 billion we had local winners here. You know, at least somebody around here won a million bucks, right?
Seth Elkin 01:53
Yeah, we had a long Powerball jackpot role that lasted for three months, that came to an end with winning tickets, two winning tickets, one in Texas and one in Missouri. Splitting that jackpot that came in just shy of $1.8 billion was the third largest Powerball jackpot that there’s ever been. So a big deal for for Powerball, a big deal for us, and we had, as you mentioned, plenty of prizes we had during the course of this jackpot rule that lasted for three months, 37 winning tickets that won at least $50,000 on Powerball during that time, including three $1 million winners, one of which was just last week in Pikesville. That prize has not yet been claimed at the Pikesville BP on Reisterstown Road. It was sold. So we’re waiting to greet that winner and have some fun celebrating with them. But lots of lots of sales and lots of prizes. There were about $13.4 million in player prizes that were won in Maryland during that jackpot role, and we estimate about 14 and a half million dollars in contribution to the state just from the sale of Powerball tickets during those last three months. Doesn’t count any other type of ticket that we’ve sold. So it’s a win all the way around when a big jackpot rule
Nestor Aparicio 03:04
happens. Well, I want to welcome will him and into the conversation here with Seth Elkin from the Maryland lottery. Uh, September is responsible gaming Education Month. Big mouthful of things, just to say that, you know, everybody knows somebody who has had a problem or was gambling a lot long before all of this became available on an app with all sorts of propositions and prepositions and percentages to win, all of which were broken on the opening game where the Ravens played the Buffalo Bills, where I can’t imagine having money on it, my heart was involved in it, and everybody I’m a writer doing Purple therapy on Monday morning, um Seth, talk about this. What you do every September, and we’re only a couple of years into this, and I’ve been doing sports radio 35 years here, right? And I did point spreads, pick EMS. I did it on national radio. I did a television show with Buddy Ryan and Lawrence Taylor, many years ago where pigskins and point spreads were a thing. But from the Maryland lottery’s perspective, this is very, very new. Online wagering in this country is new. I remember when the Costa Ricans were always trying to call me, get me to do ads that would cost me my FCC license, many years ago. But from the state’s perspective, and taking care of people who have problems, this is where we step in, right here, right now, after a bad beat in week one, although the Steelers won on your behalf, that we step in and we talk about being really responsible about this and being grown ups about this right
Seth Elkin 04:31
now, as you mentioned, September is designated as responsible gaming Education Month. It’s a program that’s sponsored by the American gaming Association, which is the trade organization that represents casinos and sports betting operators, and it’s intended to be an educational opportunity, which is something that we’ve embraced year round around here. We certainly shine a light on it right now because of RG Education Month, but it’s something that we’re always emphasizing in. All of our interactions with players, we want people to understand the nature of the games they’re playing, understand the rules, understand the odds. It’s always a lot more fun any kind of game that you’re playing, even if it’s a board game, you’re going to have a lot more fun if you understand how it works, and understand the potential harms that can happen when you gamble. And that’s where will comes in, as you mentioned, will Hindman is one of the five peer counselors at the Maryland Center of Excellence on problem gambling, and he and a couple other members of the team there came in a number of months ago and did a presentation for our communications team to talk to us about these issues and educate us about things that we can be maintaining an awareness of as we’re talking to people, and a really valuable opportunity for us and and will. And the other four counselors are providing a tremendous resource for the state. So it’s a great opportunity to have him on it and have him provide some insights about the things that they’re hearing and the things that that they can impart to people, it from an educational perspective. So really glad that he was able to join us today. Well, I
Nestor Aparicio 06:02
join us today. Well, I love this, and, you know, do this over crap. Kick with you at the Beaumont if you wish, in future. Will, because it’s an ongoing issue. And it’s, it’s sort of like my colonoscopy segments with GBMC. It’s an ongoing issue for dudes. You need to keep, keep the awareness out there for people. But I’ll say this, I’m not a gambler. People to listen to me. Know, but I know a lot of people. I took a lot of phone calls from a lot of people that. And when I met you, even before we came on, we’re talking about the football game this week and how crazy the ending was. And I said to John Martin, over the last couple of years, and Seth as well, and Carol before that, hey, you call this 800 line, what do you get? You know what I mean, I sometimes I have a hard time getting a hotel reservation or calling an 800 line to think that I’m going to kid on, put on hold to get whatever Right. Um, we get someone like you don’t we will him, and
Will Hinman 06:54
exactly, um, like Seth said, I’m Will him, and I’m the peer supervisor at the Maryland Center of Excellence on problem gambling. We currently have four peers. We actually just lost our fifth peer, he retired, so we are looking to hire, actually, two peers. If anybody has two years in recovery, lived experience in recovery from disorder gambling, they’re welcome to reach out to us, because we are hiring two more peers. But we are all people with lived experience in recovery from a gambling disorder. I started gambling at around the age of 1920, years old. I was a student at the University of Maryland. Got introduced to my first bookie. I took my first trip to the casino at 21 years old. If you could place a wager on it, I would put money on it, like the way I looked at it back then, if you didn’t have money on the line, like, what’s the point in doing it? You know what?
Nestor Aparicio 07:40
I mean, I knew 100 guys like you, brother. I mean, I’m the sports guy. I was in every sports bar. I was on busses back and forth, hearing the chatter, taking the phone calls like and I was always like Marvin Lewis, whom I’ve been communicating with regularly lately, because we’ve just been friends forever. Taught me football in 1996 he took me in to try to teach me. We were trying to teach Raven fans to not cheer on offense like literally, we had a new team. And you sound like you’re a local guy. Maybe you remember all this when the Ravens came to town, and Marvin would watch film with me every Friday, and with Jim Schwartz, who was his assistant, who went on to do his own thing, he’s gonna try to beat the Ravens this week. And they would have to film up on the the old projectors and the old pull down the thing that’s literally 1996 and we’ve watched games, and I remember him vividly. The 1996 ravens were they would either they’d score 40, but they give up 50. They had no defense, and they had all sorts of turnovers. Was slinging Vinnie throwing the balls up in the air, and it was a play where, like Steven Moore about the ball, this moves like a football. Follies move, and the ball moved, and the ball bounced, and the ball bounced, and Marvin looked at me. He’s like, I can’t believe people bet on this. He’s like, it’s just like, I don’t know what’s going to happen. And I coach these guys every day, and I wouldn’t bet on it, but because I have no idea where they’re going to win or lose week to week. And once I heard that 30 years later, and having been around the game in that way, I’ve met so many regular people who think I got an edge. I know something. I you know, I called this guy the 800 number with the stuff in his hair back in the USA Today, in the 90s. And I remember all of that. And it’s just been something really foreign to me, until someone has a problem, until it wrecks their life, it wrecks their marriage, wrecks their employment status. With me, you know, I’ve had things happen where I just identify it as they’ve got a problem, and they call you and I’ve asked All right, so they call you, what happens I call you and my problem is my marriage, my credit card, my house, my life, my job, my kids, my my mental health. It. Frankly, that’s what happens. That’s what you find, by the time somebody calls you, they probably have a bigger problem than they’re even willing to admit they have, right?
Will Hinman 10:09
Yeah, it’s usually gotten real bad. And a lot of people don’t know that disorder gambling has the highest risk of suicide of any other addiction. They say 50% of disorder gamblers will have thoughts of suicide. One in five were actually put in a plan to take their life. So it’s pretty serious, and I’m one of those people, and the end of my run, I had a plan in place to take my life. Casino gambling is what took me down. There was a casino 13 minutes from my house. I was struggling with alcoholism, separated from my wife, and I turned gambling into an escape, which turned to a complete disaster, which is why we tell people not to gamble. If they may be at high risk, you know, struggling with loneliness, free for loss, substance use, you know, mental health, or if they’re, you know, going through a major life transition, or, you know, struggling financially, don’t gamble. Don’t turn to gambling as a solution. Gambling is not intended to be a solution. It’s intended to be a form of entertainment, and that’s always stress. We don’t oppose gambling at the center. We just want to make sure people are keeping it fun and safe, and that they know that their resources available. Should it become a problem. But yes, if they call the one 800 gambler helpline number, they stabilize the person. First thing they ask them is whether they’re suicidal. They put a plan in place, you know, a safe plan if they are suicidal, and they get right here, right now, when the minute they call, yeah, they’re asking them all the screening questions, what medications are on? Is there a history of mental illness? You know, history of trauma? You know, they’re screening them for us and make sure they’re stabilized. And then what they do is they say, Would you like to talk to someone with lived experience in recovery from a gambling disorder, and that’s when they warm trans for them to one of us. So I cover Southern Maryland, which is Howard County, Prince George’s, Charles Calvert and St Mary’s County. If somebody calls the one 800 gambler helpline number from that region, they will warm, transfer them to me, and at that point, I’m able to have the conversation. And you can almost hear them breathe, because, you know, first they’re answering those screening questions, well, then they get to talk to someone that understands the lingo, understands the language, understands what it’s like to just lose their paycheck, to be chasing their losses, you know, to be separated from their wives, or their spouses, or whatever, you know, or if it’s a child that’s, you know, they’re getting heat from their parents, whatever it is, I’m able to relate on all those levels, you know, and I struggle with mental health, I struggle with substance use. So I can understand on a lot of different levels. And usually gambling doesn’t happen in a box. There’s usually a dual addiction, or a co occurring or a history of trauma or something major, some major life transition going on in that person’s life. That’s why they always say addiction is usually just a symptom of something else going on. You got to get to the underlying conditions.
Nestor Aparicio 12:43
And then there’s, I God, I mean, you’re sitting here talking, and I swear over a cup of coffee here this morning, I’m just thinking of this person and that person and that guy and that guy and that guy and that guy and that like, and it’s all guys in my world. Over 35 years, um, I took a lot of phone calls. I made a lot of pics. I had a lot of people calling me, hey, nasty, who you like, who you got, who you think. They thought I knew something that maybe they didn’t know, and maybe, maybe I did. I mean, I, I guess I was perceived as an expert on the radio, that if I gave them a tip or something like that. And look, I, I grew up around the horse track thing too, right? Worked at the paper in the 80s. I glorify Charlie Ekman and Clem Florio, but that whole I know something more. I can read the form. I can get an edge. I’m going to have an edge that nobody else has. And then the thought of doing it every single day as an obsession in some way. I don’t know how many days of the tracks, too many, four days a week. I don’t know how many days at a casino in a row. Or you get back from one and you’re thinking of going to the next one, or if you’re chasing losses, I remember Monday Night Football. I’d always hear a lot about that. You’re not the first trauma counselor I’ve had on in 35 years of radio, but this is certainly something different. When it’s become legal, and we do it on behalf of the Maryland lottery, and it benefits people here, I often wonder this, the modern part of this, and the part where the apps tell you to slow down, right? And the apps are built this way, and there’s so much awareness, and we’re going to talk about it, that by the time somebody calls you, they’re, you know, they’re not just doing the betting the way I was when my dad would bring a pool card home and I’d circle five, give $5 trying to win 30 bucks or something. That was just a goof. It wasn’t going to change my life. It was just gave me a reason to root for Iowa on a Saturday afternoon or something like that. But I have experienced in my line of work over 35 years, just people that I looked at and thought, Oh, my God, I wouldn’t want to think about this the way you do, because it would just lead to I had two alcoholic parents and you know, but by the time somebody calls you, what are you seeing and hearing in the mind? Or an era where all of this is set up to to create slow down. I tell people to slow down. Everybody. There’s signs everywhere telling people to slow down. You can’t, you know that, right? You can’t like when an addiction. I’ve learned that about addiction in in any whether it’s opioids. I I do lots of educational with the, you know, awareness and trying to educate myself, trying to become smarter as I get older. To say, What could I have done for any of that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy, that guy, because they weren’t going to listen to me. I promise you, when I think of these names and faces of these real humans in my life that definitely needed to call you at some point, probably still do that, once this thing opened up. Oh, my God, I I shudder to think, how I get that person there before they’re desperate enough that they’re calling you in darkness? Yeah.
Will Hinman 15:52
I mean, prevention is the answer to that. And we’re trying to get in the schools and educate, you know, the high schoolers now, you know, before they get to that age where they really start gambling, because I think college is a lot of times where they find it. But to answer your question, by the time they get to us, usually they’ve been chasing their losses, you know, and a lot of times they’re calling after they just ran out of money. And you’ll hear, most gamblers will say that it’s really easy to stop when we have no money, when we just blew our paycheck, but what happens two weeks later when we when we get that next paycheck and we’re behind on our bills, you know? Do you try to chase your losses more and try to get back that money so you can pay your bills, or do you call it quits? And I think that’s the hardest thing for a gambler to do, is to accept their losses, you know, and that’s what I really try to have that conversation. And I say, Look, I know it’s the toughest thing for us to do, is accept our losses. Who wants to accept the fact that you gotta dig yourself out, you know, sometimes 1000s of dollars in debt, you know what I mean, but that’s the answer. Gambling in any form should not be considered a solution, and the sooner you accept it is not a solution, the better off your life is going to be.
Nestor Aparicio 16:49
What kind of calls I want to go ahead Seth, I’m sorry, actually
Seth Elkin 16:53
follow up on something that you said, Nestor, where you’re you’re talking about people that you know, that you have have relationships with in your life. You know needed to make that call, and you don’t. I think one of the most difficult things is a lot of people probably are in that situation, and they don’t know how to help that person that they know may be struggling. And I wonder will if you’ve got insights, because I’m sure you’re getting calls I know, in fact, I’ve heard from you that you’re getting calls from parents of young people, of college students, how do and even if it’s not a college student, when you get a call from somebody who’s trying to help someone in their life, what guidance do you have for them? Because I imagine getting that conversation started has got to be one of the most complicated things. If you go about it the wrong way, they’re going to dig in their heels and and it’s going to be counterproductive, isn’t it. What do you say to those people?
Will Hinman 17:40
Thank you so much for mentioning that set. Because I want to talk about the parents too. And a lot of times it is the parents these days reaching out and and they’re, you know, it’s usually moms, a lot of times, because they want to fix it, and it’s usually young adult males that they’re trying to fix. And they think they can fix the problem, you know, but they have to first of all accept the fact that a gambling addiction is just like a drug addiction once we lose the ability to control it. I mean, it is a cunning and baffling addiction. So accept that. Fact, a lot of people get angry with the gambler, thinking, you can just stop. Why don’t you just stop? Can somebody just stop doing drugs or drinking alcohol when they’re you know, in the graphs of the addiction, it’s the same thing with gambling, once we’ve lost the ability to stop and once we’re chasing those losses, it gets really, really ugly, and a lot of times it’s way worse behind the scenes than we’re admitting. You know, we’re concealing the losses. We’re trying to hide them. We’re trying to finagle any way to get money to try to win back those losses. And you know, we don’t want to tell people. We don’t want to be honest with it. I think that’s what makes gambling addiction so dangerous too is it’s much easier to conceal than a drug addiction or an alcohol addiction, because we’re not slurring our words. We’re not stumbling. So a lot of times, there’s no physical signs. You know something’s going on, but you just don’t know what. And I think that’s why it’s got such a high risk of suicide too.
Nestor Aparicio 18:56
Well, by the way, will him and see her. Seth Elkin is here from the Maryland lottery. Seth is a recurring cast figure here, and we, we always talk lottery issues and serious issues. And Will’s over at the University of Maryland. Give him a chance to give the number we talk. You know, we one 800 gamble. We give the number all the time. But I wanted to say this because I’ve been out with a lot of people with alcohol issues. I was Bud Light sponsored, and Coors Light sponsored, Miller, light sponsored, and I’ll be at Union brewing this week with the 75 colts, just to just, you know, let everybody know that I’m still old school. I’ll just say this. I’m at a bar. Somebody’s had four drinks, five drinks. They’re getting off the rail. They’re going to have a hangover. They’re doing stuff they shouldn’t saying stuff they shouldn’t. I’m that guy now, at 56 that would be the guy. And probably always was say, Hey, man, get a glass of water. Slow your roll a little bit, you know, I can see it. I can feel it. It’s a little Hey, it’s 10 o’clock, man. We get, you know, you’re driving, you know what? All of those sort of things that protect friends right when you’re out. And even. When you’re in Ocean City and you’re walking back, I’m just sort of like, Hey man, you know, gotta get up tomorrow with the kids or whatever it is, slowing people down, the gambling thing. For me, I have to pause for a minute, because I’m thinking of these humans. They are. They’re all real humans. To me, they’re people I knew. I don’t necessarily know them all at this point anymore, but like, I wouldn’t even know where to have started as a friend, as a boss, or a potential boss, or a potential client, and a lot of clients, my God, I had clients that you know, were advertisers here, and their whole jam was, it’s all they talked to me about, was gambling. And that kind of tells me, like we got a lot of things we could talk about in life, about the ravens, especially, too. I talk about offense, defense, especially. But when you come up to me, and the premise to talk to me is about gambling, I’m assuming you’re doing a whole lot more than I’m doing, which is still none on football so but I didn’t know where to even begin, and these were people really intimate in my life at various points, to say, Dude, watch. Can you get your jam in any other way? Can you just watch the game without having money on it? And most of the time the answer to that was no. I mean, like, literally, now, do does that? Do I call that an addiction? Do I what do I call that and, and how do I present to a grown ass man? You know, when I say to him, Hey, dude, put 100 bucks on the Indiana Pacers tonight. It’s Tuesday, and you’re doing this three times a week. Yeah, man, I’m, you know professional Google, you know what? Whatever they would I know more. I know you you know a lot. Yeah, right, sure, right. I don’t know where I would touch that across. And I’m 57 now, and even examining it if it came in the door. Right now, I tell them to call you because I don’t know what I’m doing, right? That’s what I would do. But making them call you is different than telling them to call you absolutely.
Will Hinman 22:11
I mean, they have to be ready. And you know, you hit so many you both you and set the hit so many great points. I used to wake up every single morning, print out my lines, do my research, circle my plays for the day.
Nestor Aparicio 22:25
God, I knew you. I knew you. I knew you. You know what you wanted to do in life. Do sports radio. You wanted to send me a resume and get a gig with me, and then I would meet you. I would meet you, and you’d have a notebook full of gambling stuff, and I’d say, I can’t put you in a locker room. Now, here’s the thing, you know, I mean literally, that’s the first thing I’d say, I can’t put you in a locker room. No, you can’t talk to Joe Flacco this week. You just can’t.
Will Hinman 22:51
Sorry. But I really did not turn to gambling as a financial solution. Okay? I was adrenaline junkie. My friends used to call me an adrenaline I was an action junkie. Okay, I love the action. I love playing the board. I tried for 24 years to find that outside angle. Just like you said earlier, what’s the
Nestor Aparicio 23:08
biggest win you ever had? Did you win 50 grand in a day? 100 grand a day? Because when you can win like that, because I got horse racing guys like Dick Girardi and like serious people have been in my life, my whole life, every year I asked him, you’re behind, right? And they’re like, No, I’m ahead. And these are horse racing guys that have done it for 40 years, and I’m like, but they’ve hit Trifecta to 1.3 million, you know, they’ve done pair, they’ve done all of that. And they like, really, kind of know horses better than anybody I’ve ever met, because they studied it all of their lives. But this is a different level. I haven’t met anybody that tells me they’re ahead from football gambling.
Will Hinman 23:44
Well, you know, I was a professional blackjack player, and my biggest win was the last day at the casino when I was going to kill myself, you know, and I lost it all back. And less an issue, you know what I mean, because we’re all going to go on our hot runs. But what happens when our runs go cold? Do we have the ability to stop and you know, and a gambler is always pressing their bets, thinking it’s going to come around, it’s going to come around, and by that time, you know, there was not going to be a big enough winning to make any dream come true for me. You know what? I mean, there was not enough money and there was not enough time. And I want to really stress to gamblers too, not just to think about the money. But also think about the time, because I destroyed my first marriage, not because of the money I lost. It was the preoccupation on sports gaming. Like I said, I was you love gambling more than her. Absolutely, I was preoccupied with it all the time. I was a raven season ticket holder for 10 years. I was a Washington, Washington wizard season ticket holder for six years, when Michael Jordan came back, I was at the games all the time. If I wasn’t at the games, I was up at the bars watching the games. If I wasn’t up at the bars, I was down in the basement watching the games. You know, it’s like having an affair. Basically, tell me
Nestor Aparicio 24:53
about your life with your bookie. I’ve never had a bookie. I don’t think I’ve really known a bookie, although I probably. Have, you know, I mean, through life, but I didn’t, I didn’t have a guy. If anybody would have said to me, I want to make a bet in 1998 2000 368, I I literally, if the FBI asked me, I would, I literally didn’t know that guy. Still don’t know that guy, but I’m thinking that guy’s got a gun. I mean, I’ve always thought that, and I always thought like that’s not a guy you want to owe $500 to if you don’t have
Will Hinman 25:24
it. So there are bookies like that. My bookie actually ended up being my best friend. I had two bookies, actually three over the years, and they were all three friends of mine. So most, most bookies aren’t going to break your legs. They’re going to accept their losses. You know, they don’t want to go to jail, you know what I mean, but they’ll do everything they can to try to put heat on you to pay. And I know it got a lot, a lot of guys that bet over their heads, and then I’m not being able to pay in the book. You just had to accept that. But my book and I used to stay up till five o’clock in the morning playing NBA Live 98 this tells you how, how far back it goes. And we would play for $100 a game. I’d be the Utah Jazz with John Stockton. He’d be the bulls with with Michael Jordan, and we would go at it till five o’clock in the morning. And I got my first condo with my wife. I got it right in the same apartment complex as my bookie. So you can imagine how well that worked with my marriage. Not well
Nestor Aparicio 26:15
at all, dude. It’s bad enough. You’re betting on the real Indiana Pacers and the real Washington watching the Washington Wizards. I’m sorry about that. That was the worst bet you ever made, probably on that but will him and is here, and I mean, your life experience, it clearly begets the kind of experience you would need for any of these men that I’ve known that if they call me tomorrow, on there in desperation. And if you’re out there and you know who you are, call me. I’ll get you help. I will, I will. You know, I mean, believe me, like, I know people who either have called or should have called, and I don’t think they could ever stop. You know what I mean? Like, that’s the thing, 1015, 20 years later, these humans, I knew them well enough around me, around sports and around their habits and what was important to them, You know what I mean? Like it was that important that it was the most important thing that they talked about most of the time. And let
Will Hinman 27:15
me answer yours and Seth’s questions. I don’t feel like I really have. So if you’re trying to have the conversation, first of all, listen empathetically. Choose the right time to have the conversation. You probably don’t want to talk to them in the middle of the game, when they got big money on the line. Talk to them after loss, when they’re open to talking. Talk to them empathetically and let them know there’s resources available. We are very fortunate to live in a state that is very wealthy and resources for problem gambling. We have no cost treatment in Maryland for any Maryland resident that’s negatively impacted by problem gambling. So that includes family members, spouses, parents, at least, we can get them in the hands of a counselor, that they can get the support they need until the gambler is ready to address their gambling problem, and obviously it’s available for the person with the gambling addiction as well. We have peers that work with the family members as well. Because, like I said, a lot of times it’s the it’s the families reaching out, or the supporter, you know, the person trying to help a friend like you reaching out first, but let them know. There’s a lot of resources available. There’s no cost treatment. There’s lots of support groups now for problem gambling. There’s even a young person’s meeting 35 and under preferred meeting, there’s two of those available every week for the younger person is trying to
Nestor Aparicio 28:25
get into those online, or that you online, you’re online. Okay, it’s zoom.
Will Hinman 28:30
And there’s meetings across the state available in person, if they prefer in person. There’s a women’s preferred meeting available. There’s a newcomers meeting available. There’s all kinds of meetings available, depending on, you know, everybody’s got their own flavor for recovery, but we introduce them to all the options, you know. So there’s a lot of and there’s if they need financial resources, or they’re behind on their taxes, or if they’re about to get, you know, evicted from their apartments or or their mortgages, you know, getting foreclosed on. We’ll introduce them to all the resources we can to help them on the road to recovery, so they don’t have to turn back to gambling as a solution.
Nestor Aparicio 29:05
The Maryland Center of Excellence a problem gambling will him. And is here, Seth Elkin is also riding shotgun here, and I’ll bring Seth back into Seth from the lottery’s perspective in the state, and where John Martin sits in this chair, and you sit in this chair, I remember you were trying to get this out right, and all the gamblers were yelling, because you can do it in this state. You can’t do it here. Get it online. The casinos rolled it out. I mean, I’ve been at this a long, long time, trying to just get slot machines in the race tracks. I mean, through all of this, we’ve been at this 30 years, waiting to put it on when Will says that this state is rich with resources to help, I think that this was sort of every politician’s nightmare. And anybody that was going to vote for it, yay, nay in Annapolis, you know, whether they were on the side of righteousness, this way or that way. And that could be for any of the vices, be it at. Alcohol, cannabis, any of these things. What’s the downside, and how are we going to have treatment, and how is it going to be set up? And I want to give you some oxygen to talk about it, because, like, you’ve been around the lottery a long time. John’s been around there a long time. All this sort of rolled in. And I know this was a big, big part of, yeah, we’re going to make money on it. Yeah, it needs to be in the up and up. Yeah, we’re going to have operators, and a lot of them are going to have licenses and this, and we’re going to have all these, but then there’s going to be this part of this. And you guys did not go into this blindly Correct,
Seth Elkin 30:27
yeah, we wanted to make sure that that the treatment component was there, the educational component was there. And there’s been a long history, even before sports betting launched, a long history of of interaction between the lottery and the center of excellence on problem gambling. So a lot of cooperation and collaboration that’s happened there. In fact, we just earlier this year, produced a series of videos that are aimed at shining a light on vulnerable populations and will and some of the other peers appeared in those videos. You can find them on the responsible Play page of the lottery website. They’re aimed at raising awareness about how gambling can impact youths and seniors and veterans and rural communities. You know, these four were communities that I think the Center of Excellence identified as areas that they really wanted to target and make sure that the message was getting out that the help is available. As will said, there is free counseling available. There’s free free services available to anyone who’s a Maryland resident. So that was something that was always very important to us. And then, of course, the educational component, component is very important to us as well. We try as best we can when, when people are contacting us, we’re trying to make sure, you know, here’s where you can go to find the rules. Here’s where you can go to understand how these things work. Here’s where you can go to find help. Here’s where you can go to enroll in the voluntary exclusion program, which is available, something that we run, that you can enroll in and use it as a tool to incentivize yourself, to ease your the amount of gambling that you’re doing or to stop gambling. It’s not intended to be the one and only tool that people use. It’s intended to be a one tool of self help. That’s part of a broader package of things that you do if you’re trying to gain control over your gambling, but it is something you can do to enroll in self exclusion, to incentivize yourself to say, Hey, I now have a reason to stay away from this, because I know I need to to slow your role as the phrase that you use quite a bit. Well, go ahead. Yep, no, I just think that there’s a whole package of things and something that that we are increasingly paying attention to as time goes on.
Nestor Aparicio 32:36
Well, the word treatment, you know, I mean, like every drug addict and alcohol addict I’ve ever known other than, you know, AA meetings, they go away, they hang out somewhere, in a little house in the woods somewhere, and they sit and think about things, and they get educated, and they dry out like, right? I think we’re all kind of familiar with that treatment in one way or another. We’ve all had a friend who’s had a friend, or known someone, or even just seen a movie. You know about what that’s about? I don’t know about this. Like, I don’t know. Like, I Okay, so they call and you help them get their taxes, and you they’re not suicidal anymore. You know, the Ravens play the Browns have won on Sunday, so the game’s on, and that’s what they do, and that’s their that’s what they like to do. They don’t like walking in the woods. You know, they’re not going to find a new hobby. You sound to me like you still watch sports. Hope you don’t watch the wizards anymore, for your sake, or, or, or the pirates for you. Seth, but none, except on the tutorial for that, except on the nights when skiing, just pitching, so but, but that like, I love sports, and my wife came in here in the freaking 11th inning of the Here, I’ll hold them both up for you Seth, just because we have a little fun here, the pirates are playing the Orioles. But it wasn’t 1979 let Uncle Nestor tell you a story. Um, we, uh, family so, so they’re playing. It’s 11th inning. My wife comes in here. It had him in 10 o’clock at night on Tuesday night, the game’s tied, and she’s like, glued to the set, and I’m and they’re loading the bases, and beside you is about to hit his chalk, walk off, and like, we’re watching the game, we don’t have money on the game. And I said to my wife, I’m like, you do know these are two serious last place teams in the 11th inning of a September game. But you know what? We like baseball. You know we like sports, but I don’t have money on it or what like I don’t even know why I’m watching it. Doesn’t it’s insignificant. I’m still watching it, and it’s because it’s what I do. I cannot imagine a life where some of these gentlemen that I knew at one point in my life with notebooks full of every bet they ever made and why they made it, and all this meticulous thought that they had an edge, that you take that away from them, tell me what treatment is, because it isn’t a little house where you stop the sauce, or you stop the needles, or, you know, drug addiction that i. Don’t know what treatment even is other than, you know, you have to stop associating to sports in that way, and maybe associated to, maybe closer to what me and my wife do, which is just the game’s on, which is way, the way it’s been my whole life. I hope we win, whoever we are, you know,
Will Hinman 35:19
you know, that’s a great question. You know, at some point in time, you know, our mindset does have to change. You know, I don’t crave those highs anymore, because behind, behind every high is a low. There’s always a low around the corner. You know, I want to be somewhere in the middle, but treatment looks like so for me, you know, like I said, I was suicidal, I had a plan in place, so I ended up in a psych ward, and I ended up in another psych ward, and I ended up in a 28 day rehab program to address both the substance use and the gambling. That’s when I was introduced to the Maryland Center of Excel problem gambling. They had a gentleman by the name of Michael Rosen that came in and spoke to me. So I was introduced to, you know, the support groups and treatment and but I relapsed. I relapsed on alcohol, out of treatment, because I was still hopeless, you know, my marriage, you know, was over, you know, I was losing my house, you know, things just seemed completely hopeless. I lost my business, you know, but um, all
Nestor Aparicio 36:12
because of gambling. Literally, I had alcohol too, right? Yeah, the
Will Hinman 36:17
alcohol led to serious marital problems. And then, like I said, I turned to the casinos and escape, and that turned into major financial problems. You know, it was a combustion of things that just turned in to a complete disaster. You know, my life just
Nestor Aparicio 36:30
exploded. So what fixed you like what saved your life will, and that’s
Will Hinman 36:35
a great it was support groups. It was talking to other people that had been through what I was going through and were able to share their lived experience. For me, I got a lot of hope from that, you know, I got just that little seed of hope to believe that recovery could work for me. And then, like I said, you know, they say, if you stick around long enough, a psychic change occurs, our mindset changes. Now I have a very growth mindset. To me, growth is the high now, you know, I want to become the best version of myself I can be. I wasted 42 years, or at least 25 years, of my life, you know, chasing highs. I want to, I want to spend the rest of my life trying to be the best version of myself I can be. And I don’t chase those highs anymore, you know. But if we stick around long enough, eventually that happens. So there’s lots of different forms of treatment. There’s residential treatment. We have at least four residential treatment centers that accept problem gamblers at no cost. We have IOPS, intensive outpatient treatments if they just want to do, you know, three or four hours a day in treatment. Or we have just counseling, one on one counseling, they can do one or two sessions a
Nestor Aparicio 37:37
week, and let’s make sure we’re not making a bet today, like, really, right? That, like, one day at a time, right?
Will Hinman 37:43
They can continue gambling. You know, we can’t tell someone with the gambling. They have to stop completely. Maybe they just want to stop going
Nestor Aparicio 37:50
to see with booze that, you know, you wouldn’t. You know people I’ve known had a booze problem, don’t ever offer them a drink. A big
Will Hinman 37:57
thing in the substance use field to do. They believe that saving lives too, medication management, things of that nature. Well, there’s the same type of thing with gambling. Maybe they just don’t want to go in the casino, but they still want to be able to buy their lottery tickets, but they have to be careful, too, not to jump addictions. Because I know people that all of a sudden were, you know, big casino players, and the next thing you know, they had a sports gambling addiction, or a big lottery it gets they’re buying scratch offs, but it’s up to them. So they can work towards just reducing the amount of harm the gambling is causing, limited amount of money and the limiting amount amount of time they’re spending on gambling per week. And they can see whether or not they’re reaching their goals, and maybe over a period of time, they see that they’re not able to control it, and they can work towards total absence. Or maybe they do learn to control it. You know, that’s up to them. I know I personally can’t control it. Once I open up, and once I start stimulating that area in my brain, I’m going to want more just like if I take a drink, I’m going to want more alcohol. You know, that’s the way gambling works for me. But some people can, you know that, and that’s up to them. They get to choose what their goals are.
Nestor Aparicio 39:00
I gambled this month, Seth. I went out to the Maryland State Fair. I went to Costas, and my wife got that, you know, bad, bad, bad. She saw the horses. All she loves the ponies, you know. So I bet on speedy Alex in the ninth, because Alex is my cousin. He wasn’t so speedy. $5 exact the box. $5 to win. I lost 15 bucks. I’m fixed. There you go. I don’t need to call one 800 guy. I don’t need any of that. I’m good, and I can watch the game. So will. You’re watching sports, though, right? Like you still love sports.
Will Hinman 39:28
It took me three to four years to be able to enjoy sports again and entertainment value.
Nestor Aparicio 39:33
You didn’t. You stopped watching the games to some degree. I had no interest, honestly, because you couldn’t bet on it. You weren’t interested in it. Okay? I had
Will Hinman 39:41
bigger things to worry about, you know? I had to turn my life around, and it took a lot of work get my life back on track. I was working a lot of hours. I was a single father, you know, but eventually I found myself just being able to watch the games again, like I did as a kid, for entertainment value, to enjoy the athleticism, and that’s a gift. I can turn off a game and. I don’t have to worry about waking up in the morning and seeing what kind of damage I did to my account. You know what I mean, it’s
Nestor Aparicio 40:06
Seth and I are Oriole pirates fans. We don’t need to bet on this to feel bad about it, believe me, right. Well, um, give everybody the number and how to get in touch with you. Um, I’m gonna have classic churn, but you’re gonna have to come out and have to come out and have a crab cake. Could be at some point, somewhere along the line, talk more about this, because, you know, we’re not one and done, you and me. I have a feeling, you and me.
Will Hinman 40:29
So yeah, one 800 gambler is The National number now, regardless of the state you’re in, they can also go to our website help my gambling problem.org. There’s a self assessment on there. They can take nine questions. We’ll give them a severity score if they question whether their gambling may be a problem. There’s lots and lots of resources on there. There’s a list of all of our counselors that provide the no cost treatment on there. I think all of our peers direct cell phone numbers are on there too, if they want to call us directly, rather than calling the one 800 gambler helpline number. So help my gambling problem.org. Or one 800 gambler are the two ways to get in touch. And they can also text and chat with the helpline as well. They don’t have to
Nestor Aparicio 41:09
call All right, look, I’ll get you back out, maybe during the holidays. Seth, you’ll make that all happen. Seth, my wife didn’t win 1.8 billion, so I’m still going to be here next week for John Martin still going to be here for you, no matter how this this Brown’s ravens thing in the state. By the way, Aaron Rodgers looks good, Joe Flacco looks good, at least for one week. So I’m worried about football. Here’s too much to bet on it, that’s for sure, right?
Seth Elkin 41:36
I’m not sure what to think from from one week of play, so I’m reserving my judgment,
Nestor Aparicio 41:41
I’m laying low as well. I hope that this was educational for people out there. We’ve helped some people out there. Certainly has been educational for me, because I often wonder, all right, I call 100 gambling, what happens? Who do I get? Do they put me on hold? I hope not. So. There it is in long form, some ways to help everybody, because everybody knows somebody that’s now gambling, because it’s on the up and up, it’s easy to do. Just slow your roll. Have some fun with it this weekend. Watch the games, and as we all learned, late into the evening on Sunday night, be careful betting on this. That’s all I’m saying. You know? I mean, it was a 15 point lead with four minutes left to go. I am Nestor. We are wnsd. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, we never stopped talking responsibility and Responsible Gambling and Baltimore positive. Stay with us. You.
