The world lost a force of nature. We lost a dear friend, mentor and spiritual north star when longtime sportswriter and columnist Phil Jackman of The Evening Sun died at 87 last week. This is a 2003 sitdown with the reformed TV repairman. It’s two hours of his life, views on sports and the world and tales never told about Ali, Yaz, Earl Weaver and Andre The Giant.

From Nestor: The world lost a force of nature on Tuesday when my friend, mentor, sage and one-time father figure in my life Phil Jackman died at the age of 87. I have a lifetime of stories and hours of tapes of him telling old reporter tales about Earl Weaver and Yaz and Muhammad Ali. He was witty, sardonic, hilarious, stubborn and one of the best men I ever knew. I had so many incredibly good people in my life at The Evening Sun from 1986-92. Those nights driving down 295 for Caps games and the conversations we had about sports, life and hockey. I even watched him dance at a Neil Diamond concert one night at Capital Centre. He was my favorite faux curmudgeon! I wish that I could find better words but this one has gutted me for the moment. #RIPPhilJackman

Please enjoy these vintage chats with an original New Englander and a really beautiful guy.

We are also dedicating long stretches of programming on October 15 and 16 to playing The Jackman Files – all of the cool chats Nestor can find with Phil, whom he adored, admired and idolized as a 17-year old kid at the newspaper. The depth of their relationship is evident in these chats.

Phil Jackman Feb42003

Nestor Aparicio interviews Phil Jackman, a former sports columnist for the Baltimore Sun, about his career and experiences. They discuss Jackman’s wrestling days, his tenure at the Sun, and his relationships with colleagues and athletes. Jackman reflects on the decline of newspapers and the shift in sports coverage. He shares anecdotes about notable figures like Reggie Jackson and Lefty Driesell. They also touch on the lack of local sports coverage in modern media and the impact of national sports leagues on local interest. The conversation highlights the changes in the sports journalism landscape and the personal dynamics within the industry.

Transcript

https://otter.ai/u/rQ4JFXMA1fGKPacZysP_TmmnI8k?view=transcript

Action Items

• [ ] Follow up on the story about Art Schlichter’s small hands and how that affected his quarterback skills.
• [ ] Reach out to Ravens coaches to get their perspectives on the realities of recruiting high school athletes.

Outline

Phil Jackman’s Return to Baltimore Airwaves

• Nestor Aparicio welcomes Phil Jackman back to the Baltimore airwaves, joking that they only call him when someone dies.
• Phil Jackman reminisces about his wrestling career at Dundalk High School, mentioning a JV match against a kid from Patapsco.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss their differing motivations for wrestling, with Phil admitting he wrestled to get in shape.
• The conversation shifts to Phil Jackman’s unpopularity among colleagues, with Nestor Aparicio noting that even now, people still don’t like him.

Phil Jackman’s Relationships with Coaches and Players

• Phil Jackman recounts his early days at the Baltimore Sun, where he was the only person the new coach, Tank Hank Bowers, would hang out with.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the importance of getting along with people, even if you don’t like them.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with difficult players and coaches, including Judge Hendrick and Reggie Jackson.
• The conversation touches on the philosophy of managing a team, with Phil Jackman quoting Billy Martin’s advice about player dynamics.

Phil Jackman’s Political Views and Current Activities

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss their political differences, with Phil Jackman identifying as a conservative from Massachusetts.
• Phil Jackman talks about his current activities, including running chores and walking with a fireman pal.
• The conversation shifts to the challenges of being a sports writer, with Phil Jackman lamenting the decline of newspapers.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman reminisce about their time at the Baltimore Sun, with Phil Jackman noting the changes in the newspaper industry.

The Decline of Newspaper Circulation and Sports Coverage

• Phil Jackman discusses the decline in newspaper circulation and the impact on sports coverage.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman talk about the shift from morning to evening newspapers and the challenges faced by the Baltimore Sun.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with the morning and evening Sun, noting the differences in their approaches to sports coverage.
• The conversation touches on the importance of having a variety of columnists and the decline in strong opinions in modern newspapers.

The Importance of Local Sports Coverage

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the lack of local sports coverage in modern newspapers.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with covering high school and amateur sports, noting the decline in interest and coverage.
• The conversation shifts to the importance of local sports in building community and the challenges faced by high school sports programs.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the impact of national sports coverage on local interest and the need for more local columnists.

The Role of Columnists in Newspapers

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the role of columnists in newspapers and the decline in strong opinions.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with different columnists and the importance of having a variety of voices.
• The conversation touches on the challenges faced by modern columnists and the need for more diverse perspectives.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the importance of local columnists in building community and the challenges faced by modern newspapers.

The Impact of National Sports Coverage on Local Interests

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the impact of national sports coverage on local interest and the challenges faced by local sports programs.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with covering local sports and the decline in interest and coverage.
• The conversation shifts to the importance of local sports in building community and the challenges faced by high school sports programs.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the need for more local columnists and the impact of national sports coverage on local interest.

The Decline of Local Sports Programs

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the decline of local sports programs and the challenges faced by high school sports.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with covering local sports and the decline in interest and coverage.
• The conversation touches on the importance of local sports in building community and the challenges faced by high school sports programs.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the need for more local columnists and the impact of national sports coverage on local interest.

The Importance of Local Columnists

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the importance of local columnists in building community and the challenges faced by modern newspapers.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with different columnists and the importance of having a variety of voices.
• The conversation touches on the challenges faced by modern columnists and the need for more diverse perspectives.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the importance of local sports coverage and the decline in interest and coverage.

The Impact of National Sports Coverage on Local Interests

• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the impact of national sports coverage on local interest and the challenges faced by local sports programs.
• Phil Jackman shares his experiences with covering local sports and the decline in interest and coverage.
• The conversation shifts to the importance of local sports in building community and the challenges faced by high school sports programs.
• Nestor Aparicio and Phil Jackman discuss the need for more local columnists and the impact of national sports coverage on local interest.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Baltimore Sun, sports writing, high school sports, newspaper decline, sports coverage, columnists, sports fans, local sports, sports history, sports personalities, sports journalism, sports opinions, sports media, sports columnists, sports legacy

SPEAKERS

Nestor Aparicio, Phil Jackman

00:02

Music.

Nestor Aparicio  00:15

Welcome back. It is the bubweiser sports forum, the one, the only, the man, the myth, the legend, finally returning here to the Baltimore airways. Phil Jackman, back on with us. And Phil, you know, generally, with the old guys like you, we only call you when somebody dies. So nobody died today, it’s just, you know, it’s February.

Phil Jackman  00:33

I just heard the first hour of your show. I’m dying. I’m impressed. I love that. Dundalk, you didn’t play basketball for Dundalk High School. You know, a

Nestor Aparicio  00:41

listener of mine gave me the Dundalk basketball

Phil Jackman  00:44

take it off. I mean, you didn’t play basketball for them. I

Nestor Aparicio  00:47

support Dundalk basketball. I was just short. Why tell

Phil Jackman  00:50

us about your wrestling career down there? Well,

Nestor Aparicio  00:53

that you know that did you ever win a match one time against a kid from Patapsco? That was it. But it was like a JV thing. So JV didn’t really count. And

Phil Jackman  01:00

what happened to that kid? I don’t know. I didn’t wrestle to win. Locker room did he go to after the match? I

Nestor Aparicio  01:06

don’t know. Probably, poor guy, you know, I didn’t wrestle. Yeah, it’s

Phil Jackman  01:10

good to be here to answer your man, you

Nestor Aparicio  01:12

know, Ray, I invite Hang on. Hang on, if you didn’t wrestle to win, why’d you wrestle? I wrestled to get in shape because I was pod guy. I mean, I did,

Phil Jackman  01:20

that’s good answer. Get in shape for what, just to look better. Oh, I see, oh, for the beach to live longer for the beach. Were you packing steroids in those days? No,

Nestor Aparicio  01:30

I was not. Oh, okay, I wouldn’t even packing rolates, Chiclets, probably all I was packing at that point. I invite you in, and you just abused me. Look, we were talking about this topic with Sir. Often you came in here, the microphones are off and you’re rambling on about get over it already. All right, so he doesn’t like you. What’s the point? You obviously had some battles in your day.

Phil Jackman  01:53

You’re not a likable kid. May I put that succinctly? All right. Look, there’s a lot of people, when we work down the paper together, lot of people didn’t like you. Imagine

Nestor Aparicio  02:02

that they still don’t now that I’m gone. They hate me for what

Phil Jackman  02:05

a lot of people didn’t like me all the years I worked in sports writing. Now, could he not like you? I couldn’t understand that either. But I mean, you know me and weave me and the weave did not get along

Nestor Aparicio  02:16

ever. Was there ever a point where I was

Phil Jackman  02:19

the only guy he could hang around with the first couple of years he was here, because he was brought into tank Hank Bowers place, and the coaches wouldn’t hang around with them. And a lot of players had played for him in the minor leagues, and know knew his personality, so he had to hang around with me. And then when he got successful, I don’t think the guy could ever handle success, really. I you know, you never think you change. You think the other guy changed. Well, I’m convinced he changed, but, you know, you get over it. He didn’t talk to me for seven years. So what, you know, I don’t think I really missed anything. You know, seven years. We did not have great philosophical debates or anything

Nestor Aparicio  02:56

like but isn’t it nicer just to get along like we walk in, even if you don’t like somebody, you don’t have to even pretend that you like them. Just become vivial. I don’t want anything, you know, just hey, how you doing good to see you. All right, that’s how hard is that? That’s not hard at all. It’s not hard at all. And when you’re an adult like I am right now, you you turn the cheek, land you are right now. You take the higher road, you try, at least that’s all. Did you ever have a player that you like watching play that you were a fan of until you met him? I mean, a lot of that, be careful what you wish for, and don’t get too close. Because, I mean, I know some rock stars that I like their music, and I’m like, you know, I was on the rock and roll beat down at the paper when I first met you. And, you know, you go and you interview him and you meet him. You’re like, what an a hole.

Phil Jackman  03:41

I dislike anybody who’s a moron, but for I’ll give you an example. Remember judge Hendrick? I know John George. Yeah, absolutely, yeah. Judge wouldn’t talk to anybody. And then the only time he did talk you, you got the idea that judge is not the brightest guy in the world. So who really goes needs to go in and talk to him after. So, you know, you enjoy watching him play, but there are 24 guys in that ball club. There are days that Reggie Jackson was a pain in the neck. So you don’t talk to Reggie. I’d rather talk to Sal bando anyway. And then there were time where Reggie would carry you for a month. Would, as he would put it, good quotes, but

Nestor Aparicio  04:17

he was the straw that started the drink. 20. Yeah, yeah,

Phil Jackman  04:20

there’s 25 guys. And, you know, I think it was, I think it was Billy Martin that said this, 10 guys are gonna like you. 10 guys are gonna hate you. He says it’s the other five guys, which dictates whether you have the ball club with you or they’re against you. If it’s 10 and 15, you’re gonna get fired sooner or later, he’s talking as a manager, or maybe it was the Rocha who said something to that effect. But 25 guys are never gonna like you, so who cares? Just, just move on.

Nestor Aparicio  04:50

I try to get along with everybody, Phil, you know, but some guy even get along with you. All the people that hate you, I love you publicly, you know. And I. Even know why. I don’t know you’re a curmudgeon. Well,

Phil Jackman  05:04

yes, that that was the act that I put on. But I mean, there are several things that you learned from me. I hope you probably didn’t, didn’t realize it at the time, all right, and they are, and I feel sad that that you have turned out to be as morose sometimes and as it’s crude, I heard some of your crudities coming in. Difference

Nestor Aparicio  05:25

is that you’re conservative and I’m not. That’s all,

Phil Jackman  05:29

oh yeah, maybe that’s it. Yeah, I’m a Republican from Massachusetts, right? I’m conservative. Are

Nestor Aparicio  05:35

there any Republicans in Massachusetts? Six, yeah, they’re always governor. They washed them out in the 50s, didn’t they, right around the Kennedy time? No, we didn’t need them.

Phil Jackman  05:45

We didn’t need them at all. You know, just like we really don’t need the Republicans now. But you know, that’s, that’s another be nice

Nestor Aparicio  05:52

to Bob Ehrlich. He’s gonna let me play the slots at the racetrack.

Phil Jackman  05:58

What year is that? In his eighth year? Yeah, I

Nestor Aparicio  06:00

don’t know, somewhere in there, yeah, we’re trying to push that thing through. Phil Jackman, formerly of the evening sun here. How do you feel about that, formally, of the evening sun, like people always ask me, What’s Jackman doing now?

Phil Jackman  06:10

So just, well, I don’t even type. You know, you miss writing when you write every day for 40 years. You’re gonna miss it, but it’s

Nestor Aparicio  06:17

about you write something once you write a book or write something that you could put online, or I coach high school.

Phil Jackman  06:21

And, you know, I This may sound funny, but I run chores every day. I have more chores. Your professional grandfather, yeah, that too. But I mean, you know, I don’t get up in the morning wondering what I’m going to do. And, you know, it’s a, it’s a wide open day. Well, I just went over to the workout club, and for some reason, I’m walking with a fireman pal, and unbeknownst to me, we walked for an hour and 20 minutes. Now I didn’t plan on doing that. You know, that’s why you were late coming the show. No, then you say three o’clock. No,

Nestor Aparicio  06:55

I didn’t say anything. Ray does this. Ray does this. You wonder, why

Phil Jackman  07:00

Booker? You have a booker on this show. We have to, we want to know what I do all and you’re looking for a guy right Phillip, air with you. Why don’t you call yourself? You know, I this, this going through. I did

Nestor Aparicio  07:12

that for four hours yesterday. Are

Phil Jackman  07:13

you this big? Are you this big in this business that you don’t have to call people anymore?

Nestor Aparicio  07:17

I don’t know, you know, I once had somebody, it’s Ray’s job to call you. So

Phil Jackman  07:21

if I do it, then it’s his job, then you’re stealing his job, right? I

Nestor Aparicio  07:25

try to let him do have their role around here. Stand you never understood that. I thought you really you wanted to be the writer, the editor. You wanted to be, you want to be the publisher. Well, yes, well, right? I

Phil Jackman  07:35

thought, I thought you were a little embarrassed, embarrassed to call you no because, because of the this is, this is strictly out of the goodness of anybody’s heart, that you will come here, that they come out here in the middle of the sticks. You don’t even, you’ve never even given me a hot dog. I remember one time, Ray, bring

Nestor Aparicio  07:52

the gift certificates in. We’re sending you to loonies, over to della roses.

Phil Jackman  07:57

I know you had a bad pizza in here a couple of years ago. We did a bad pizza in here. Yeah, that’s about it. Yeah, I’m

Nestor Aparicio  08:02

sending your daughter, Sheila and her family over to the loonies up Bel Air. They still live up there, right? Yeah, sure. Well, you okay? Well, I got a gift certificate for you up in Bel Air for your daughter. Hey, I got a gift certificate in white Mars for you.

Phil Jackman  08:13

I cannot be bought. My wife, I cannot be bought. Yeah, it’s exactly, it’s like, I’m

Nestor Aparicio  08:16

gonna get better radio out of you because I give you a sandwich, I throw some crab chest and feet down your throat. Phil Jackman, here, we’re having some fun today. 41 1570, we’ll take some phone calls for Phil a little later on. And I got two minutes at the top the hour I came in today, and I was gone all last week. And you know, I don’t know about you when you’re on vacation in your day, and used to go down the beach and whatnot, but I don’t even know now whether you read the sports page every day or not. I’m not, you know, I don’t know what you’re into. I know toward the end, you were more into Olympic sports and amateur sports and running than you really were into mainstream professional sports. But when I go, I don’t read anything, and I try to catch up, get on the treadmill and catch up when I get back. I didn’t know about the lefty Gizelle thing on Thursday night for him coming back. You sort of, you had the column and all that stuff during all the lefty Gizelle years. Any comments on lefty from you? I mean, after 20 years of doing what he did, that his legacy, I guess, is what it is. But now Gary’s come in and national championship final for all the things that lefty wanted to do that never got done.

Phil Jackman  09:18

Yeah, I remember, we myself and another guy used to do a pro and con on various subjects. And, you know, we flipped the coin. So if you mean, you were actually for something, yeah, I was for the Army Navy game. Okay, and Jim Hawkins was against the Army Navy game. He and I used to run on a Friday and his con after one edition, we took it out of the paper. He submitted it to best sports stories of the year, and it made it no but I remember on the lefty routine, I went down there and I was I drew a con on that. And I remember one of the very first games he ever had. He have a coach down there. They army came in, you know, with all these guys, five, 510, with the with the with the jawhead haircuts and all that other business. And after the opening tip, Lefty jumped up, took his coat off and slammed it to the floor, and the whole place went crazy. What they were used to seeing was the coach, before I forget about the name of that guy with but side of a dead guy he he coached it like it was a PE class or something rather. I want to get,

Nestor Aparicio  10:26

I’ll get some more stories from his top the I gotta go take the break here. Phil Jackman in studio, it’s three o’clock. You’ll see wnst Taos in Baltimore,

10:35

down to one opening in the NFL. Hello again, everyone. I’m Doug Russell, and here’s what’s happening currently, at least officially, there are two NFL head coaching vacancies. That number could be cut in half soon, but likely not today. The Detroit Lions, in a published news release yesterday, said they’re quite close to agreeing to terms with Steve Mariucci regarding his becoming their new head coach. But today, both the lions and mariucci’s Agent tells Sporting News Radio, nothing is official and nothing is imminent. It has been reported that a deal would be made for $20 million over five years to have Mariucci returned to his native Michigan. Last week, team president Matt Millen fired coach Marty mordenweg, in part, he admits because Mariucci was let go in San Francisco. Meanwhile, New York Jets defensive coordinator Ted Cottrell in San Francisco, 40 Niners General Manager Terry Donohue will meet tomorrow for a second interview. Yesterday, Donahue spoke with bears defensive coordinator Greg blasch For the first time. Romeo Cornell, defensive coordinator of the New England Patriots, was informed today that he’s no longer under consideration for the post. Also, both Tampa Bay’s Monte Kiffin and Philadelphia’s Jim Johnson were candidates as well, but both withdrew their names from consideration, staying with their own teams. Instead, LeBron James, attorney asked a court today to block a ruling that barred James from playing the rest of the season. James was declared ineligible on Friday by Ohio High School Athletic Association Commissioner Claire mascara for accepting two free throwback sports jerseys worth $845 from a clothing store. James, who is expected to be the number one pick in this year’s NBA Draft, sat out his first game of his career on Sunday, former NFL lineman Alonzo Spellman has been sentenced to 18 months in federal prison for threatening the passengers and crew on an airline flight last summer, a judge also ordered Spellman, who has a history of psychiatric problems, to spend three months in a rehabilitation center after his release from jail, he must also undergo psychological counseling and is also barred from flying on commercial airlines without approval. Game of the night tonight in the NBA, 830 Eastern Time, Dallas place, host of Sacramento. That’s the latest Sporting News Flash. I’m Doug Russell.

12:33

How good is world champion football handicapper, Wayne Allen route, for the last three years as host of the winning edge on fox sports that Wayne has won a documented 67% of his best bets. That’s live on air. He won 70% of his college picks for the year on air. He won 15 of his last 20 college bull picks for his private clients, Wayne’s that good. His expertise available free at 1-800-922-7668, but basketball is Wayne’s biggest winner by far. Last year, he hit the Triple Crown with the highest documented winning percentage of any handicapper in America in college hoops, pro hoops in the college tournament, he’s that good and available to the betting public at 809 to two. Route Wayne’s a living Las Vegas legend. His picks are in demand by CNBC, Fox Sports net and Fox News Network call Wayne now for his two biggest college hoops plays of the day, Florida, Kentucky and Providence pit, both nationally televised conference showdown winners are absolutely free at 809 22 root, that’s 800-922-7668 call now and win tonight with the best Wayne Allen Root, 809 20 2r,

13:31

o, o, t,

13:34

w, N, S, T, Valentine’s

Nestor Aparicio  13:36

Day is coming soon. Why not spice up your relationship with an adult gift from Express video with locations in Bell camp and falls. Express video has Harford County’s largest selection of adult toys and novelties for men and women, plus a great selection of adult magazines. There’s a huge selection of current adult movies with 1000s of titles in stock, plus many of the adult movie classics, my favorites for purchase or rental. Stop by either of the Express videos two locations today, and check out the special Valentine’s Day Sale. Buy any two adult DVDs or VHS tapes and get a third of equal or lesser value, absolutely free. That’s right, buy two, get one free. Express. Is it sad to you as a guy, and I don’t, I don’t know I’ve ever talked to you about this, but as a kid growing up, I’m sure that you idolize sports writers, and you probably wanted to be, I wanted to be you. I wanted to be John stebbin. That’s all I ever wanted to be when I was a kid in the 70s and early 80s. I got to feel like, if you grew up to be a sports writer, probably that’s what you wanted to

Phil Jackman  14:29

do, right? No, actually, I wanted to be a sportscaster. Oh, okay, right. What’s the difference? You know, you’re in the you’re in the sports business. I knew that going off to college what I wanted to be, because my older brother was and blah, blah, blah, I’ll tell you, when you’re working in the newspapers, and you knew and you saw what was going on. There was a certain inevitability about the whole thing. Afternoon papers were folding in every market. Now, I got here in mid 60s, and when I got here, the morning sun didn’t have a big circulation. This is a. This is a strange newspaper town. You know, for a good morning paper, you’re supposed to cover about 40% of the metro area in circulation. So if you’ve got a million, you’re supposed to be selling 400,000 Yeah, or some other but the numbers that stick with me is the news American at one time, and I thought they fudged their figures a little bit. They got around 222, 25 excuse me, we were 210 and the morning sun was only 180 185 this is early 70s around that time, right? Okay, well, the explanation, everybody always says that explanation for everything. A morning paper, about four or five people read it. Evening paper, only one or two. You know, it slaps down and on the on your doorstep at three, four o’clock in the afternoon, and you get around to reading it at eight o’clock at night. Well, a lot of people who are going to work early their morning sun, they didn’t read it until they got home anyway, but they read it at work. You know, if you go into any any bathroom, in any business, the the morning sun has been laying there on the floor, and 35 people have been reading, and

Nestor Aparicio  15:58

you get it for free, like I come in at 155 and Haney buys the paper and I read it for free. But

Phil Jackman  16:04

we held on. The evening, Sun held on, and with such a money maker in its heyday, Wednesday and Thursday, you can hardly pick the thing up. It was, you know, the big advertising days and things like that. Well, the powers that be, I guess, did blame it on the LA Times, or maybe even before then, they wanted to go to one paper, and I guess our circulation wasn’t tumbling quickly enough, so literally, they went in a campaign to drive it into the ground. Now, as opposed to the same paper at the end, it was because all we used to do is change the masthead and change a couple of stories. There were only about five or six of us working for the evening sun.

Nestor Aparicio  16:43

You’re talking much later. After I was gone, I left in 92 Yeah, and there’s still two

Phil Jackman  16:47

different staffs around that time. No, no, we lost everybody in 92 The only, the only three guys on the evening sun were myself, Bill Tanton and John Steadman. Everybody else was gone. So we used to pick up from the morning sun. You know, we wouldn’t even rewrite the first three paragraphs or anything like that. Just go with it and replay and change the masthead, and if that didn’t do it. But in our heyday, and I’m talking about the evening sun, now, I always thought we were much better, and we got along with people a heck of a lot better than the morning sun. The morning sun had this, you know, it was an attitude with them. You know, this is what you will do. This is how you should think, and that data and, you know, they have, they have arguments, people with people and things like that. And they never, they never smooth it over. It seems to me, if you don’t like the morning sun when you’re 10 years old, you’re not going to like them when you’re 70 years old. It just seems to foster itself of a fester and and go on and on like that. But in our heyday, I remember the one of the ad campaigns, and you were there at the time that we had was on the box that said the smart one, which I don’t know what we were indicating, but that was, I guess, that seemed at the at the News America, news American. But I always considered it was, it was aimed at the morning sun, because, as I said, in the glory days, or when it was really fun to be down there, we weren’t. I never got the impression that we’re in well, we were and we weren’t. We weren’t in competition with the we were both the both afternoon papers were in competition with the mounting paper. It used to be funny. We go into a colt locker room, myself and Neil Eskridge of the news American. And we used to have a game plan. You know, if you went and talked to a player, say it was Marilyn Olson or or whoever, you know, Roman Gabriel or something. Rather, they would always be a morning sun guy on your on your arm listening to the same quotes. In other words, what they they were sent out there to shoot down any afternoon stories, you know, because they used to blanket the thing with about that way people beat you on the story, yeah, supposedly. So what me and myself and Eska used to do is that where the

Nestor Aparicio  18:55

word beat writer comes from, no, I don’t know, say on the beat, you know, like in the newspaper parlance, I guess the idea is to beat the cop, beat everyone else to the story, right? That would, that would be what a beat writer would No,

Phil Jackman  19:06

no, no. It goes more From NewsBeat. That used to be the word. You’re on a news beat, right? Cop to walk in the street. You’re going to the news places and things like that. But anyway, myself and Eskridge would I’ll say, Neil, I’m gonna go over to Marilyn Olsen. You get you go get Roman Gabriel. So, you know, I wouldn’t end up writing about Marilyn Olsen and your competitors, yeah, but we were baseball writers too, okay? And, you know, not really competitors. They both the same. People who read the evening sun are going to read the evening sun, and the people who read the news American are going to read the news American. And the only thing that changes that is personalities. And for years and years down at the sun, you almost weren’t allowed to have a personality. You know, they didn’t like the idea of some guy getting popular. I guess I’ll jump.

Nestor Aparicio  19:59

On this, because I find this to be interesting. As a kid, all I did was grow up wanting to be, you know, Stedman, or wanting to be a sports writer, be a columnist. I loved Vince Bagley when I was a kid and that sort of thing. Jack Dawson watching the sports and Chris Thomas was the young guy when I was a kid, and I went to work at the sun all, you know, the news American was always such a fun place to work because they weren’t making any because they weren’t making any money. They didn’t pay me anything. They didn’t take anything seriously. And they were so not serious that I was a 15 year old kid, and used to see me in the capital’s press room at 16 covering hockey, and that’s when you first noticed me, and you’re like, basically, what the hell are they doing? They’re sending 16 year old kids at the cover NHL games well,

Phil Jackman  20:42

as opposed to not sending anybody at all. Well, I thought it was a move in their direct in the right direction by them.

Nestor Aparicio  20:49

Well, I clearly had a passion for doing it, and part of that passion was brought on by the fact that at the news American, it was fun, and they liked having this spunky kid around who knew everything and was a wise ass, and the kid from Dundalk, who was 16 and had a kid they liked all that stuff. Then I got to the sun, and it was, it was morose. I mean, everything about it for the six years I was there was about beating you down, keeping you from being enthusiastic. And I’ll never forget when I got to the University of Baltimore in my senior year of college. And I guess I was 21 it was probably about 1989 1990 I had this wonderful history professor whose last name wasn’t Jack min, it was Jack Lynn. And he taught, I taught a class on the history of Baltimore, and he just thought it was the coolest thing in the world that I was a sports writer, and he would I was his student, and I was a kid, and I’ve been in this for five years, or whatever, six years at the point, since I was 15. And he picked up the evening sun and he’d see my name, and I was one of his students, and he just got a charge out of it. And he pulled me aside one day, and I took a special interest in history, because I thought it was cool the history of Baltimore. And he said, and he just had a funny way about him. And he was from upstate Pennsylvania, not Erie, but the Talmud Sharon, Pennsylvania, and he just had a funny accent about him. And said, Oh, it must be the greatest thing in the world to work down at the newspaper. You get to be a free spirit. You get to do your thing. When I think of the sports writers, I think of, you know, HL Mencken, and I think of these people that were aristocratic and different and eccentric. And I said, What the hell are you talking about? I said, if you’re not Clark Kent, you can’t make it on Calvert street, you know, if you don’t wear a tie and wear your hair just so and have the fair haired boy thing going on. Or if you’re not African American, or if you’re not a woman, or if you didn’t go to Harvard, forget it. You’re just not going to get a job at the Baltimore Sun. But he was fascinated by that. And I guess I had my enthusiasm. Everybody listens to my radio show. You know how I am. I’m pretty out there. And I say, what’s on my mind? But that’s the way newspaper people were in the fit 40s, 50s and 60s. Everybody wanted someone who was a little more eccentric, a little more outrageous, because that’s what sold newspapers. Am I correct?

Phil Jackman  22:59

Well, half you’re half correct. It wasn’t always like that. You’re right about, you know, I used to like being the guys on the city side thought where, you know, that’s why they call it the toy department. Things like, that was the toilet, you know, you get on the elevator, get on the calf for a coffee down there. And there’ll be two or three guys, and they’ll be arguing about placement on the front page, those guys that wear bow ties and things like that. And, you know, they might have, they might have, one of them might have gone to Harvard for a year and get thrown out or something, but they not act up buddy, you know. And at that particular time, you know, we’ve had three guys from Yale, three guys from Penn, you know, and Hopkins and Doug Brown went to Dartmouth and Columbia and on and on and on and on. And I used to love it when these guys would would not outwardly treat us in that manner, because they get slugged, they get flattened, if they did. And I always walked around with this and sort of laughed College, Providence, Providence, okay, I used to set a laugh at this until, you know, later on, I got to know guys that would be in the building when I’m there at midnight and after and things like that. You know, custodian staffs and all that. And they told me, geez, I love you guys. It’s what’s because you’ll talk to us, you’re normal guys. Well, why wouldn’t you be a normal guy? Well, he says, those guys in the city side, they never are, you know, and it’s not like they’re making a lot of money of the big decisions being made and things like that. And I know why there, was a certain amount of jealousy on the whole thing. My brother Frank explained to me, to me one time, he says, a guy has been working on the international desk all day long, and, you know, they’re rewriting and they’re and they’re redoing the paper. All of a sudden, at 515 if he’s working for the evening sun, he comes walking out. This is when we had, later did. Actions. He gets on the bus going up Calvin Street. He watches somebody get on the with the evening sun. So every section away, but it was, it’s so self defeating. So they, so they, in a way, sort of sort of disliked you for that, for that thing.

Nestor Aparicio  25:19

I can tell you this, I mean, and this is from and I used to admire you because you traveled the world and you’ve been everywhere and gone to Olympics. That’s one of the things I love talking to you about, and anybody else who’d ever been anywhere that I hadn’t been or and now that I’ve covered 10 Super Bowls, now that I’ve covered 10 World Series and 10 all star games and Final Fours and traveled around the world and all that stuff. Being in an airport, anywhere I am in this country, you walk into an airport, you’ll see a newspaper sitting there, and you’ll see the life section, and you’ll see the business section, and the comics will be there, and the front, the front page will never be open. The a section is pristine, and the pages are stuck together because they haven’t been open yet, but the sports section will be missing, right? And usually can, and you sit down on a stall, and you look under stall number three, and it’ll be sitting

Phil Jackman  26:09

there, either that or it’s on the plane with the guy. And now, now think you you got your master’s degree from Columbia, you go to work for a newspaper, and this is what you have to run into for the rest of your life. You’re

Nestor Aparicio  26:26

a guy that reads the whole newspaper, though. I’m a guy that, honestly, 34 years into this thing, I’ve read a newspaper, I want to say legitimately, every day of my life, except when I’ve been somewhere like vacation last week, where I don’t want to read it. But I every day from the time I was two or three years old, from the time I could read, I learned to read reading a newspaper, and I remember being kindergarten and reading the sports section. That’s how far back, because I learned to read early. I don’t think if I counted percentage wise, how many times I’ve opened the A section beyond the front page, percentage wise, it would be well under 1% so that would be in a calendar year of 365, days if I open the A section and read any of the terrorist bombing in Israel, any of that stuff, less than one day every three months do I read the A section? And the only time it happens when there’s nothing else to read, when I’m trapped on an airplane and I’m just, I’m reading the safety instructions on the Boeing 757, well, flipping reading, I’m

Phil Jackman  27:25

going to predict something here. The a section takes me the longest, especially the editorials Thomas Friedman on the Op Ed page and the letters Metro takes me the second most, because I want to know what’s going on around here. Business, you just read the headlines and check for the tribune stock sports takes me no more than 10 minutes, and most of that is AG, at high schools and the the feature section 15 years for you when you were so you absorb the but

Nestor Aparicio  27:59

I remember sitting with you at games, and you’re famous for this at the Capitol center. And you would have the New York Post, New York Daily News, Philadelphia inquire, Philadelphia Daily News, if you could find it, the sun, the evening sun, the news. And you would clip sports stories all the time you you read, you were a voracious sports newspaper reader, more so than anybody else that I ever knew. So now that’s Cha, I see you well. The

Phil Jackman  28:23

reason for that is, if you’re in this business, you’re supposed to know more than other people. You know, I walk around saying in Baltimore, it changes a little bit. Often. We want the readers to know more than we do. You know, what I’ve always found here in town is if, if a guy is local, he doesn’t have a lot of interests. You know, for years, I used to keep tabs on the on the on the columnist in town, and they wrote pretty much, I guess, what they thought the people wanted to read. But if you were a columnist, just to write Orioles, colts, Terps and horse racing for a couple of weeks. Okay? No, no. Well, how many? How many basketball games do you think John Stedman went to Maryland games? Yeah, not many, not many. You’re being very kind. Did you ever see him at a hockey game? No, but John was very popular around here because he wrote quote, and this is what John thinks, what people want to read. You know, I once asked John why he why he only had about six subjects. And he said, Well, his mentor, Roger PIPP, once told him, if it’s worth writing once, it’s worth writing several times. So John used to get on these kicks where, you know, name the stadium after Babe Ruth, and the football field after buddy young and things like, and he would go on and on and on about it. Now, the comment you made about the woman from New York who came in here from Seattle, you know, you come into a town, and if everybody, all they’re doing is going to the football game and writing that, you think. Well, the the sports page should be balanced, right? Olympic sports. Write Title Nine, write this, write that, right? You got to write ravens too. You can’t ignore the Ravens here. When the six you don’t think we have enough ravens coverage in the newspaper,

Nestor Aparicio  30:13

I don’t think they’re even educated opinions about the Ravens. I think, first off, there aren’t enough columnists in newspaper. They have two columnists, one who doesn’t want to work ever, and the other who doesn’t know anything about what’s going on locally. To me, is a problem, especially coming from my youth, where there was Maisel Goldstein, you tan Steadman, Bernie miklas and any number of other people that the news American had at any different point. Coward was a column when I got to the evening sun in 1986 there were three there were three of you. The news Americans still had a variety of people doing different columns, as well as Stedman. The sun still had Maisel then Litwin, but there were nine columnists. Now there’s two. Thank God I got a radio station around here and nobody would ever have a point. Well, they cut garsota into a minute and a half at night. Now, is it that much? Well, whatever he gets, but he doesn’t get any editorial time. The only editorial we have in this city is this radio station. That’s it. That’s the only place where people can be heard. And myself, Bob Haney and the morons warning say what’s on their mind, even back

Phil Jackman  31:15

in the days when you’re talking about there were, there weren’t many guys with with strong opinions, strong meaning, my this is my opinion. In other words, I’m not going to write here’s what I thought happened. Yeah, exactly.

Nestor Aparicio  31:28

So you think the morning after a game in 1978 there probably were at least, at least four columns on a colts and I’d have to go back and look on a colts Raider playoff game in 77 I bet there were four columns. I mean, you were probably one of them, but they’re probably in the morning sun, probably both guys. How

Phil Jackman  31:46

about a September 28 game against Atlanta? The Atlanta Do you think anybody ran out there? And, you know, I

Nestor Aparicio  31:54

think the morning after the game there are three columns. One of

Phil Jackman  31:57

the bosses, when you were there, was Jack Gibbons. Jack says, When are you going to do some Orioles? I said five guys went to the Orioles like, yeah. But they want, they want to know what you think about. All right. All right. Well, I want them to read the other five what? Why are we sending all these people out there? What is this? When I covered baseball, I was alone, and which is fine with me, because I always wanted to write two or three stories. Another guy comes out. There’s another story. You know, at one time, the car the Orioles used to be covered by by a game, story and notes. And now people call up as much Orioles or ravens as is in the paper. Some way to call up or write a letter saying you don’t cover the team at all. What do they want? Page after pay, if you look at the morning sun nowadays, I’ll be at somebody who call up and say, you do a lousy job on college basketball. You know, each day in that paper, they have topped 25 women. You got to

Nestor Aparicio  32:56

be kid. How about this? I mean, we see this every day, and I jumped on this. Let me, let me take a breath, take a break, and we’ll come back. We’ll get into this thing because Phil Jackman is here, and I want to stay, stay right on my breaks. Phil Jackman, formerly the evening sun. We’re talking newspapers, we’re talking sports sections, we’re talking love and hope and sex and dreams and politics and anything else that comes into our mind. Back for more. I’m nasty. Nestor Aparicio, this is the Budweiser sports forum, and it is a phenomenal Tuesday edition, and we’re getting through it. Stay with us all around.

33:28

WNS cabin

Nestor Aparicio  33:30

fever. Get out of the house and get over to the barn. Wnst hang out on the corner of Hart. Java Rhodes in Kearney, the fattest media scraps each and every day, the bar is the place where the Ravens players come the roost on Monday nights during football season for the Coors Light Monday Night Live show, plus there’s great live music from bands like crushing day and my band, Ridgemont High, if you like the stretch the vocal cords. Try Roberta’s karaoke every week at the barn. I love Roberta. Drive by and see Jimmy, Joe, Mr. Frank and the gang over at the barn. The barn. The barn is at the corner of Joplin, Harvard, Rhodes in Kearney, a quarter mile outside the beltway. Give them a call. 882, 6182 make sure you check out their wings. Make sure you order the crabs, home of the big fat crabs, great desserts and the Coors Light Monday night live show with ravens, players. It’s the barn. Give them a call. 882, 6182 home of politicians. Wnst. Listeners, everyone comes to the barn for Steve Krabs, Pepsi,

34:26

blue, the new fusion of berries with a splash of cola, presents the blue mix. Track number three,

34:33

I am blue, a product of two, son of berry, daughter of cola, all together, different, but not all together, the same I am blue, a fusion, no confusion. Barry is the star. Cola gets second villain. It’s for anyone, but it’s not for everyone. I am blue, not the same as the same old, same old. Open up and embrace our not so sameness. Open up and let go of that which closes you out. So if I said I am blue, would you know? Who I was, or if I said, open your mind, let your heart go the real you’s, but lock behind your routine for too long. Would you do it? Are you down on that? Are you down with that? Man? It’s time for change. Tick tock, times have changed. Tick tock, drink to that. Yeah. Drink to that.

35:19

Discover the taste of Pepsi blue, fusion of berries with a splash of cola. Pepsi blue, it’s a blue thing.

Nestor Aparicio  35:26

If you don’t already know about the upscale atmosphere, the variety of great food options and full liquor bar, you need to know about Razorbacks in Towson, Razorback numbers dollar draft specials for all college and pro basketball day games with 25 cent wings and half price skins. Razorbacks, located at the lane Valley shopping center, directly across the 1000 mall, Razorbacks features an array of food and drink specials with happy hour four to 7pm Monday, Friday, check out Razorbacks grill ready ribs now available for takeout, and now you can take Razorbacks own barbecue sauce home. Razorbacks now serves Sunday brunch, featuring all of their specialties. And also new at Razorbacks is the weekend basketball specials like dollar drafts, 25 cent wings and half price scans during all college and pro basketball day games, including Terps games, ditch the same old pride bar food. Razorbacks features towson’s best food menu, and Razorbacks offers the upscale charm you’re looking for. Razorbacks into the Delaney Valley shopping center, directly across the Towson Mall. When ordinary is out of the question. You need Razorbacks, 8219550, for Razorbacks in Towson, remember

36:25

the time you spent listening to Sports Talk, 1570 wnst,

36:32

nobody covered the University of Maryland. Terrapins, like we do. We are Baltimore sports voice Sports Talk, 1570 wnst, our coverage is made possible by the charred rib, by dead Freddy’s, by Loyola College athletics and by Toyota. This is Sports Talk, 1570 wnst.

Nestor Aparicio  37:00

Welcome back. It is the bubweiser sports forum. Phil Jackman in studio today. I’m nasty Nestor Aparicio. Phil, of course, former columnist for the evening sun, longtime sports writer at the paper, and talked about a variety of different issues getting into things. I don’t want to use today’s newspaper as an example or any but Your will is no but I’m not going to, because today, I mean, obviously you’re here, and one of the reasons you’re here is to fill our air time, because February is the slowest month of the year, and it’s a great month to look at everything that’s not happening this weekend or last weekend, but just take on an issue. We’re

Phil Jackman  37:34

going to do well, there’s too much of that in sports. Number one, the typical sports fan cannot wait for something to happen. Why? What’s the big rush? You know, you know what I’m talking about, anything. What do you hey, I remember, there’s a guy who did a radio show in town for years around here, and in the middle of winter, somebody call up and say, What do you think the the Orioles pitching rotation would be? And he’d do 20 minutes on it. Why don’t we wait until the pitches go to spring training in February? Why don’t we suffer through those spring training stories during my when we wait for things to

Nestor Aparicio  38:09

happen? It’s important, I think, for the marketing of sports from if I own a sports franchise, and the NFL has become phenomenal at this, is making a year round sport, the NFL, I understand that plays a total combination. If you’re a fan of the ravens, They have played 48 hours of football the entire year, really 16, but they stretch an hour football game over three hours, right? So they have played 48 hours of football an entire year, and we spent 365 days a year here dissecting things, because they figured out that having the the middle of the week off is a good thing. They figured that having an injury report is a good thing, not only for them. They figured out, even though never say it the gambling is a good thing, and that waiting on the free agent period is a good thing, and having these these college combines and the draft and the mini camps, it’s a year round thing. Just like baseball, when you started covering baseball, nobody thought about baseball, November, December? Did it? Winter meetings? That was it for a weekend, right? Was it what

Phil Jackman  39:07

you what you hope to do is hot stove league is what they used to call it. And that expression come from. You have any idea? Yeah, the guys, a bunch of guys, gathered around a hot stove during the winter time and talk base, dreaming of summer, okay, and but since baseball was the sport, you know, you wouldn’t remember it, but the the biggest sports where, and it wasn’t that long ago,

Nestor Aparicio  39:30

boxing, horse racing, in baseball, not us,

Phil Jackman  39:32

raising no college football, Baseball and boxing. And that’s that probably got almost that went into the 50s. Nobody cared about pro Well, pro basketball was fairly new. It for 1946 pro football was still, you know, those ruffians playing on Sunday afternoon. And

Nestor Aparicio  39:54

pro football didn’t take off. To the early 70s, really take off, correct? No,

Phil Jackman  39:58

50s, you. Yeah, you know, I’m not, I’m not going to say the championship game. I mean that that opened it up. Opened it up. But pro football was very important in the major cities in the country, because there was no college football when you think about it, New York’s not a college football town. Washington, Detroit, Philly, la la was the only one they had. The two big teams, no, Pittsburgh was pretty good, and that Penn State was out in the sticks, and the University of Pittsburgh, Cleveland had Ohio State. Chicago was okay because of Notre Dame, because of the Big 10 and Notre Dame, but for the most part, any other city it was. It was no big deal. Chicago’s

Nestor Aparicio  40:36

an interesting town altogether, because people from the Midwest grow up on a farm in Iowa or grow up in the backwoods of Wisconsin. They all want to be in Chicago. So when you go to Chicago, any sports bar to this day you go in Chicago has all the Big 10 helmets around, right? And there are bars that are Illinois bars or Michigan bars. You know, what’s

Phil Jackman  40:54

amazing about Northwestern is a very small school and a very, very good school, but it’s, it’s slightly amazing that they’re not better year after year. Now they say, well, these kids can’t get there. Have to be a lot of good, smart football players around, you know. But Chicago, for instance, high school football is not great, but it’s, but it’s awfully good, and they support so many teams in the Big 10 and Notre Dame. And they say, well, Northwestern can’t get well Chicago did. University of Chicago was one of the original members of the Big, Big 10. I think it was a big nine then, or some other until Robert M Hutchins just took him out of the business and got out. Well, steadmans

Nestor Aparicio  41:32

quote about Baltimore being the first great pro football city was that there was that the Colts were the college team for Baltimore, exactly, and other places they caught on to that in a way that in New York, where they had the Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Yankees more of a baseball type of thing, that other cities adopted that and that Rozelle sold that, that, hey in Buffalo, the bills are your team. Why

Phil Jackman  41:57

did the Kansas City Chiefs leave Dallas? I have no idea. Nobody cared. Okay, you know, because it was college football in SM you in Texas, and Texas, well, at the Southwest Conference, and that was a that was a league under its own. If Do you remember, did you read the book or see the movie junction? Boys? I did not, but you got to read it. It’s fantastic. It’s, it’s when Bear Bryant left Kentucky, went down to Texas, A and M, he’s out in the middle of nowhere. And he drags these 110 111 kids out to Junction City, Texas, and puts on the worst boot camp, boot camp type thing. 35 guys come back and and all they’re worried about. They were one and one and nine that first year. And by the time those guys are seniors, 35 there’s probably 16 and were seniors, they win the Southwest Conference. As you’re reading this book, it’s by the announcer down there, Jim. Jim, not, not Pete chant. Jim, somebody was the movie, any good? Yeah, made for television. It was, I mean, Behringer played the part. Yeah, it

Nestor Aparicio  43:03

was made in Australia. And, I mean, three months of promoting the damn thing I never did. Well, I didn’t watch it on principle, because I wasn’t sick of hearing

Phil Jackman  43:10

about, well, read the book because Bear Bryant, you know, bear started here, and I started telling people that, and they say he did, yeah, he was at University of Maryland, and he left there, and he went to Kentucky, and Kentucky was as good as anybody in the country. This is around the time of babe, really. And I always thought it was an apocryphal story. The thing about was rough there at the time. Yeah. What a university that must at the awards. At the awards ceremony, Sloan burger played for them, and the other the other end was Steve mylington and pirilli was the quarterback, and they were terrific. The two best teams in the south southeast conference at that time were Kentucky and Tennessee. Johnny majors was down at the majors brothers, there’s about six of them were at Tennessee, but they were the strength of the whole thing. And at the awards banquet at the end of the year, I thought somebody made this up, Baron Rupp got a Cadillac and what’s his name, Bear Bryant got a lighter. So he’s out of there. So he goes down to Texas A and M, and in four years, picks them up to the point where Alabama wants him. Now. Alabama had been down for a long while, and you can’t be down in Alabama football because, you know, but anyway, and that’s where he went to school, you know, he’s an Arkansas guy. Ironically, what happened this year? Gene Stallings did the same thing. He was one of his best players on the junction boys. He’s a Texas A and M with John Crow and Charlie Kruger and guys like that. That’s why they got good because Bayer Bryant could get any kid to come. If you can get anybody, it’s an it’s a nice place now, but you can imagine what Texas A and M, what college station looked like in 1950 you’ve been to West Texas,

Nestor Aparicio  44:56

Tumbleweed.

Phil Jackman  44:58

Yes, exactly the battles. That’s what, that’s what the place was. And there were no girls. So no girls, no was a boy school. Yeah, it was a military school. Oh, come on, every class you went to, oh, every class you went to, you were in military uniform.

Nestor Aparicio  45:12

I knew a bunch of guys. I might as well be Siberia without women. Well, that’s

Phil Jackman  45:15

what college. Colleges used to be. You know, when I, when I see what goes on, I’ve got a niece that goes to Providence now. She’s a junior and she’s a biology major. I didn’t go back to Providence until the day that Rick Pitino took the job, and there was some sort of NCAA sub regional March Madness there. And I said, I think I’ll walk up see it was a reform school. When I went there, it had no room, no buildings, no

Nestor Aparicio  45:38

no nothing. No wonder you turned out the way you did. I

Phil Jackman  45:41

go up there and I’ve got a got a new hockey arena they own the top of the hill,

Nestor Aparicio  45:47

you know? Well, you at Providence. You must have gotten razzed a lot because you weren’t Brown, right? I mean, it was that part of the gig when you were in college in the 5060,

Phil Jackman  45:54

well, who told him I didn’t go to brown? You went to school in Providence Brown? Well, I don’t correct them, if they, if they want to think I’m from the Ivy League, fine, but,

Nestor Aparicio  46:04

but at that point though, they were the they were the stepsister to brown, and I guess now they’re brown, still Brown, but I mean, Providence is much bigger

Phil Jackman  46:12

school now, correct? Well, they let girls in see there were seven, I think a great move. 1700 guys there when I went there, and on Friday afternoon, I only had one year of Sadi classes. Can you imagine that? How many kids that go to a college that had Sadi classes? But we had them until noontime on Saturday, and then, after the first year, now it was five days when they did the three o’clock bell on Friday afternoon. You should have guys were running out of there if they didn’t have a car, they were running, you know, cars and trucks. And it’s the type place where you bring your car back to campus, you pass your keys in. You don’t, you know, you don’t use your car during the during the week and things like that. You need to know, of course, nowhere to go. Nobody had any money, you know, that data, you know, and the whole bit. And now I go walking up there the day Rick Pitino takes the job. And 80 234, and I guess, okay. And the one year that the one thing that happened when see it reminds me of Loyola College, when I was coaching over at Loyola College, and one of my girls was going there, what they used to do at Loyola is announce they’re building a new building. They would put a shovel into the ground, turn the dirt over, and nothing would happen. Three years later, they’d do it again. They’d do it again. Well, when I was coaching there and she was going there, finally they got going on the student center. So you spent the last couple of years stepping over cinder blocks and piles and stuff. It’s not like going to school. But, you know, at Providence, you know, they didn’t have the money to do this. They stayed within their budget and things like that. But it made college wasn’t this, this marvelous time of life. It’s something you went through. It’s like training. My brother, Bill once said he went to zavarian Brothers, all boys went to Notre Dame. Then he was in the Marine Corps, and like he said, I’ve been training all my life, but I don’t know what I’m training for. It’s it’s like boot camp over and over and over.

Nestor Aparicio  48:11

It’ll make college more palatable. The next guy down the block, you had to now, I got girls, and the next guy down the block says we have a beautiful Student Center. Next place says we have air conditioned and all of a sudden you’re not going to go to boot camp. No one chooses the tough life. Not not judge Rogers

Phil Jackman  48:26

down the paper. He was running his kid around, very smart kid, and looking at Ivy Leagues and and judge went to Williams, and he looked down south Duke and places like this. And finally says, Okay, I think his name was Adam. Where do you want to go? And he mentioned Duke or somebody or other. He says, geez, I was sort of hoping you’d want to go to Williams. Well, Williams is in Williamstown, Massachusetts, way out in the middle of nowhere. And the kid says, it doesn’t have anything. And Judge says, What do you mean? It doesn’t have anything. It had exactly what it had when Judge was going there in the 60s, you know, which is sort of dull. And this that, you know, and, and that’s not all trees, yeah. That’s, that’s not what kids are looking for nowadays. Of

Nestor Aparicio  49:11

course not. Phil Jackman in studio, formerly the evening, some are talking about love and hope and sex and dreams. I think where we left off before the last break was the the the sun papers coverage currently of sports, and you say that you spend 10% of the 100% of time that you have reading sports, you said, Maybe, yeah, what about at this point in this point your life? I mean, having been everywhere, done everything, and been close to it. Is it part of being close to it that makes you not want to be closer to it.

Phil Jackman  49:42

No, it’s, it’s having gone through all this. And like you say, I used to read seven newspapers a day, and when I sit down and analyze it, a lot of the times I was reading the same story seven, seven different ways of seven different times. You know, that’s why

Nestor Aparicio  49:57

the need for columnist is there. Phil, I mean, when I. Don’t need to read the Sun paper when I can just go online and get my scores and get my statistics and get my agate. The reason I pick up a newspaper is to get an opinion, and this paper doesn’t give me that. And that’s that’s unfortunate.

Phil Jackman  50:11

You. You mentioned Mike Preston. I stat Mike every day, and as soon as I know where he’s going, I don’t I don’t have to read. I’ve known Mike as long as he’s been in newspapers, and I like him, and he does a good job. And rarely do I have to go to the end to know where Mike is going. And if I don’t have any idea where he’s going, I’ll finish, I’ll finish the thing. But for the most part, you know, after a while, you can look at a story and I know where this is going, all right, I’ve seen the guy’s opinion and things like that. Now, for instance, the woman wrote a story about that Phelps, the swimming kid. Last I was going I read that whole thing, because I haven’t read a Phelps story in maybe two years. You know, when he was at the Olympics, huh? You’re just looking, yeah, what’s he up to? Now, I know he’s turned pro and things like that, but you know, I’m not, I’m not trying to skip through the thing. But then, if you look at the paper, it’s all little type anyway, and you know, you have to get the Magnify. But this, this thing, you know, the

Nestor Aparicio  51:10

the Wilson women’s college basketball game. Why would there be a full box on that? The attendance was 145 local. That’s what they call, they call the attendance 145

Phil Jackman  51:24

it’s estimated. Oh, of course,

Nestor Aparicio  51:26

why would that take precedence over well,

Phil Jackman  51:29

somebody said anything in this, you know, at one time in the 60s, any Tom dick, a Harry could show up at the back door, at the Sun with a box score for an amateur sports baseball game? Beer leaks all day and would run it. And then, if you remember what Sunday Frank Lynch used to write that column on the news American information, all you had to do is put up whatever it cost is to roll a string and throw the ball down the alley. Call a news American, and you’d be in the paper. But that’s what they we used to cover, which was information. This is what you have to do when you’re when you’re, you know, working in a town like Chillicothe, Ohio or something, but usually in a major metropolitan newspaper, you really don’t have a chance to run on raise

Nestor Aparicio  52:17

153 at pinland Dundalk last weekend. You’re saying that doesn’t belong in the sun.

Phil Jackman  52:23

I used to, I used to love it when a guy call up and say, I got a hole in one, say, and you shoot him down immediately and say, so what you know? You know. And I wouldn’t take the information until he went, unless he went back to the clubhouse and bought around. You know, that’s what you’re supposed to do when you score a hole in one. He said, The guy says to me, I didn’t know that. I said, Who are you playing with? You know? And now he’s playing alone, but he makes up three names. And I said, Well, you better call those guys and tell them, you know, because he’d give me a, you know, it’s a, it’s 110 yard hole, and I used a two iron for

Nestor Aparicio  52:59

you growing up in Massachusetts and seeing this city for the last 35 years. What is it about Baltimore that makes high school sports so insignificant to the mass populace? And you’ve been here through a poly program at Augie, why will put out over there that was, as you know, as good as any the Dunbar program at Bob Wade that for a dozen years,

Phil Jackman  53:25

the Baltimore rolls does exactly okay, but they were

Nestor Aparicio  53:29

teams that had some national notoriety and sent players on to some good things. What is it about Baltimore that people call me all the time. Want you a high school show because nobody listened to and the reason nobody listened to it is because nobody sees these kids play. They’re never on TV. The crowd at most of these games is about 145 even in the heyday of Dunbar, they played downtown where, I mean, let’s let’s call what it is, white people didn’t go to watch Dunbar play. And basically, if you got 30 seconds of their highlights. I’m talking about Reggie Williams, Muggsy Bogues. They didn’t play at the arena or at the Towson center for the most part. They played against Walbrook at Walbrook, and nobody went to Walbrook in 1984 at eight o’clock on a Tuesday night to watch a basketball game. So most people hadn’t seen Muggsy Bogues, but I remember going to see Sam Cassell play against Southern down at Dunbar. And I walked into the room and it was I was the only white guy. Me and Keith mills were the only people that were there. And I’m thinking to myself, this is a phenomenal game. Ron Lucas is playing. Went off and played at Kansas State, wherever he went. And Sam Cassell has now been in the NBA dozen years, won championships. Nobody saw these kids play. So to do a show about whether SAM CASSELL could have had a good crossover dribble, or whether he abused the officials, which he did, and whether Pompeii put up with it which he did, there’s no conversation about it because no one sees it happen. And I think that’s the unfortunate thing, that nobody watches. These kids play. So therefore there’s nothing to talk

Phil Jackman  55:02

about. Well, sports fall into different categories. A lot of sports are participation sports. You know, you asked John McEnroe, Jimmy Connors, how much television, how much tennis television they they watch, and they say, Are you kidding me? Because they’d read rather be playing. If you’re a runner, you’d rather you don’t want to read about it, that, you know, you’d love to run the Boston Marathon, you don’t want to read about it really, you know, not more than a paragraph or two. What you were talking about. I first heard the name skip wise. And I said, is that good? This is from a referee friend. And he says, yeah, there’s a pretty good game Friday. And it was Loyola. Loyola was going down to play at Dunbar. And Loyola had a heck of a guy who went up to Penn State and had a good career. I forget what his name was, but the game is, I think Loyola is two to four points ahead starting the fourth quarter. And skip wise has Larry Gibson with them and a couple other guys and honey dip, or whatever they used to call him, in the first four minutes of the last quarter, and they played eight minute quarters. I don’t know what they play nowadays. That is that what high school basketball ends now, 10 for 10s

Nestor Aparicio  56:14

or 12, but

Phil Jackman  56:15

that long since I saw before eight, but in four minutes he got 16 points. I’ve never seen anything like it. So I go back and I’m writing about, you know, I don’t care what Dicky Kelly does, and you can give me all this. There’s nobody in the country that’s better than this kid. Well, anyway, he ends up going down to Clemson the next time I well, I saw him play two or three times, and in the famous game downtown, Adrian Dantley, they beat the math, or 8981 or something. I think skip got 40 then, but he goes down to Clemson, and as a freshman, and this never happened, ever. He ruled the ACC as a freshman, you know, a point guard coming down, he was just like Oscar Robertson was. I can imagine Oscar Robertson at Christmas Attucks High School in Indianapolis. I mean, this guy was so fantastic, or something other. And the first game I go to is a big referee. I know, you know, Bob, somebody or other, Bob, go ahead and as he’s going by out of the, you know, he takes a whistle out now, the corner of his mouth saying, What are you doing here? Because I’m only, the only white guy. Well, they just didn’t go down there. What’s going to happen here, you know, but the word gets passed around. But to answer the question about about how big, why is high school such a big deal? And if you talk to some coaches, they don’t think they get enough or something or other. But this is the parents and friends are interested. And I always thought, until I get back into coaching, that kids in the school were interested come to find out they’re not. You know, at a school that we both know that has more than 2000 kids, you go to a football game, and I don’t care how bad or how good the team is, you know, there won’t. Most

Nestor Aparicio  57:59

of the kids in school, come the razz, the kids to play on the team. No, that’s okay, as long

Phil Jackman  58:03

as they come and then do. But nobody shows up. And you know this, this foolishness of I, you know, you drive around and you see all these athletic facilities. Athletic facilities at most high schools, certainly out in the county, are about four times as impressive as the academic building, you know, but you drive by on a Sunday afternoon, and as the fields empty, nobody ever plays on sandy Don’t they know that football is an afternoon game on Saturday? Well, something happened way back when, and, you know, and they hide City Games. City games are played at three o’clock in the afternoon on Thursday. They don’t want anybody show up? Because somebody’s carrying a Rosco in this big fights and all this other business, you know? I think they should get back onto the Friday night and the sad the afternoon. That’s when high school football came

Nestor Aparicio  58:50

here from Cleveland. You know, he, he would always ask me, you know, what with the Ravens? He said, what’s going on around here Lee, you know, why is college? Why is high school football not a big deal? Because you were, you know, in Ohio, Friday night, nobody would do anything. If you live in Perry Hall, you go to the Perry Hall game, Towson. You go to Towson or delay in your Calvin Hall. That’s where you go. It got

Phil Jackman  59:13

so big this, this is how it is in the Midwest, Detroit, you go Columbus. Forget name it, right? And all that. The to protect themselves. The high schools played on Friday night, because Saturday is given to college football and Sunday is given to the pros. So, you know, they sort of got pushed off the Sadie because, you know, Ohio has a million Mid America conferences, about six or seven schools, and they’re good, you know, the bowling greens Miami and of course, Saturday is the buckeyes, you know. And everybody lives, and you know, that’s a religion.

Nestor Aparicio  59:49

Phil Jackman in studio, formerly of the evening. So we will take some phone calls next hour, 41 1570 we had a couple phone callers call in here, but we’re rolling right now. We have. Trying to slow down. Ray is here, and Phil is here. We’ll step out. We’ll take a break. Phil doesn’t think he’s getting anything, but we’re gonna give him dinner for two over della roses and up at looney’s Pub, up at Bel Air, since he’s a northeast guy, Hey, yeah, I got my own applause. I got my own applause back for more of the pub, larger sports forum with wnst Right after this,

1:00:20

by the grace of God, 24 hours a day Sports Talk. 1570

1:00:28

looking for affordable and casual dining in Ellicott City. Try the blue point grill on Baltimore national Pike, a unique three story rustic cabin. Sit by the fireplace and dine on a selection of entrees like hickory grilled lambs stuffed Gulf shrimp and vio Marsala. For all you meat lovers, try the 24 ounce prime rib, 16 ounce filet mignon. Porterhouse or New York Strip. There’s fresh seafood, daily pasta, overstuffed sandwiches and a $10 chef’s menu every Wednesday. One of Howard County’s BEST restaurants is the blue point grill. 9445 Baltimore national pike in Ellicott City, 410-461-4990, that’s the number for the blue point grill. Check www blue point grill.com, for details for 10461 4990 check out the stone cellar. In the basement of blue point grill, there’s live music five days a week with Brian Jack every Thursday, and karaoke on Sundays at the stone cell. 9445 Baltimore national pike in Ellicott City, 410-461-4990, the blue point grill.

1:01:26

Who keeps the wnst Studios looking spotless? Why It’s Daisy maids of Baltimore. They are the residential and commercial cleaning specialists from a small home to a large office building. Daisy maids has you covered? Call them today, 410-592-5690, Valentine’s Day is coming up. Let Daisy maids pamper your honey with a gift of a nice, clean home buy a gift certificate for a two hour house cleaning, and you will get $20 off the regular price. Now that’s a gift your better half will truly appreciate. Call Daisy maids today at 410-592-5690, and use the folks who make the wnst Studio sparkle for yourself, reliable, professional and reasonably priced. It’s Daisy maids of Baltimore serving the Baltimore metropolitan area. Call them today at 410-592-5690, the number one cleaning service. It’s Daisy maids of both. By

1:02:24

the grace of God, 24 hours a day, Sports Talk. 1570 we

Nestor Aparicio  1:02:33

got about 90 seconds to the top of the hour here. Phil Jackman, hanging out with us today, and the lifetime supply. Bub, wiser for Phil, you have a drinker? Film,

Phil Jackman  1:02:42

I haven’t had a beer since 1980 you

Nestor Aparicio  1:02:44

will be, you will be before it’s all over, and we’re gonna just continue our conversation. You’re watching, we’re watching Olympic highlights here. You’re digging this, right? Yeah, you’re an Olympic guy. Well,

Phil Jackman  1:02:57

it just went by the downhill. And I used to think, you know, I’m at the Calgary Olympics in 88 and myself and Ken danglinger of The Washington Post, good man covers the Ravens. I said, Let’s go up the chair lift. We take the end to the chairlift, to the scale, to the tree line, and a quarter mile above us is where they start on the downhill. And as far as Europe is concerned, it’s all downhill. The Olympics is over as soon as the downhill. Well, now we said, Let’s go to

Nestor Aparicio  1:03:29

that’s why Alberta Tom and those guys became rock stars. Yeah, well,

Phil Jackman  1:03:33

he was a see the skiers. Don’t think that much of you know he’s a slalom guy, okay, but the downhill is straight. If I don’t win, I’m gonna die. So we go up that thing, and we’re going straight up. And finally they send the first guy down, and he went by us. It looks like he’s skating the wall. I mean, the degree of the West’s, he was going 75 miles an hour. Well, I’m gonna talk more

Nestor Aparicio  1:03:59

about it. Phil, here’s talking Olympics four o’clock. You’re listening to WNS. Wnst Towson,

1:04:06

Detroit welcomes a new Eminem Show. Hello again, everyone. I’m Doug Russell, and here’s what’s happening. Mariucci and mill in a match in the Motor City today it became official Steve Mariucci multi year, multi million dollar contract with the Detroit Lions to become their next head coach. They’ll be introduced at a four o’clock Eastern time news conference tomorrow. Mariachis deal is said to be for five years and $25,000,000.15

1:04:29

70 wnst, nobody

1:04:31

covers the University of Maryland. Terrapins, like we do, we are Baltimore sports voice, Sports Talk. 1570 wnst, our coverage is made possible by Budweiser, by della roses Avenue tavern, by executive tickets and by tullys. This is Sports Talk, 1570 wnst.

1:05:03

It. Everybody get nasty. Come

1:05:08

on. Everybody get nasty. Let’s operate Come on, come on, come on. Get nasty. Come on. Everybody in the house, come

1:05:13

on, come

1:05:17

on. Check it out. Check it out. I said, and I’ll do and I’ll check it out for no particular reason, just to have

1:05:26

one simple fact that I came along the brother

1:05:32

trying to play

1:05:37

back to the Lord looking at me, well,

1:05:41

I’m not the type to wrap to a crow, so I figured it’s your boy. Then she got to let me know. And at that moment, she comes over and says, Hello. I says, hi there. And then silence.

1:05:52

Don’t tell me that you’re quiet. Yeah, you can say some of the time, cause only got one thing on my mind, I’m gonna lie

1:06:02

on the would

1:06:08

you

1:06:09

like to come over, sit back, relax.

1:06:13

There’s a couple of things that I like to show you. Maybe we can get lit well, how

1:06:16

do I know that I can trust you? I just met you,

1:06:20

and I am supposed to

1:06:22

go to your and

1:06:25

I have some things. Go to your crib and

1:06:32

let you get close to me. Come on, now or later. What’s the difference? Welcome

Nestor Aparicio  1:06:38

in. A fantastic start to hour number three. It is a Tuesday edition. 408. Here in the afternoon. Phil Jackman, hanging out. We’ll get back. Get some more with Phil momentarily, but right now, I gotta go get Meredith. Wnst Traffic brought to you by Comcast SportsNet coverage. We get 630 tonight on Comcast SportsNet, the wizards taking on the lowly Cleveland Cavaliers, waiting around for LeBron James, afterwards, you catch the wizard post game live. It’s only on Comcast SportsNet, and Meredith is only here right now, but you can put on other stations. Listen to her later. What’s up,

1:07:09

Mayor, what’s up? Hi.

Nestor Aparicio  1:07:10

How are you fine? How are you all right? Is everything going okay? There with the dog and all that. You’re rotten. Girl. Is Joe millionaire tonight? Or what is that? I

1:07:18

don’t know, but I saw that the the dark, curly haired jacket

Nestor Aparicio  1:07:22

knows more about Joe millionaire. You watching? Joe millionaire, Phil?

Phil Jackman  1:07:26

No, all right,

Nestor Aparicio  1:07:27

I think so. Phil, Phil. Phil Jackman, who’s now, there’s another one doesn’t know who you are, Phil.

1:07:34

I told you. I told you, Phil,

Nestor Aparicio  1:07:38

Phil. Phil is my assertion. Joe millionaire, No, he doesn’t know. Isn’t American Idol on tonight.

Phil Jackman  1:07:44

I was going by looking for isn’t that on the same time as First watch? Talking about you people ahead. No stuff.

Nestor Aparicio  1:07:53

It’s good for you. We don’t watch that.

1:07:55

Watch American Idol. It’s laugh at people. Get a laugh out of it. Yeah,

Phil Jackman  1:07:58

Bachelorette, give

Nestor Aparicio  1:07:59

me some traffic.

1:08:00

Thank you. This report is brought to you by Grant Lido San Susi, a super clubs resort in a vine. When warning,

Nestor Aparicio  1:08:07

I want you to say that, right? Yeah, exactly. I’ve been there too.

1:08:19

Sounds like San sushi. All right, we have one warning posted at Area bridges also building up on the envelope between Charles Street and Providence road. No problems at your tunnels. Watch for a few problems out there, though we do have some accidents out there. Falls Road at japa Rice’s time. Road at Gore’s. Mel McElderry at North Washington and blocked because of a fallen power cable York. Road at West settlers church. Road into a Caribbean luxury where golf, scuba, gourmet meals, spas, weddings and room service are included. Call one 800 go super your travel agent or book online@superclub.com on air, the marks, the nasty traffic on Sports Talk, 1570 wnst, thank you,

Nestor Aparicio  1:08:53

darling. Check back in with Meredith about 10 minutes. Will educator on who Philippe is? Phil Jackman in studio today, formerly the evening sun. We’ve had a wide variety of topics and scopes and different things, and I got so many more things. I want to I want to talk to you about the Olympics, and I want to talk to you about tennis and Wimbledon and boxing and horse racing and all these things that have been relegated into oblivion and obscurity in American sports journalism. But we got some phone calls. You’ve been patient. They’ve been hanging on. They want to talk to you and being you are such celebrity star here today, and we brought you back onto the sports map here. After those they must be old guys down a Calvert Hall. Kick the Calvert Street. Kick you out. T bones here. T bone, welcome in.

1:09:31

Hey guys. What a beautiful Friday. I love it late and windy, late Tuesday, Friday,

Nestor Aparicio  1:09:40

soon. Don’t worry about it anyway.

1:09:42

Listen, you mentioned all those other sports. I think we’re kind of like in a phase in the development of our society where you know the sport.

Nestor Aparicio  1:09:53

Whoa, you’re getting deep now, go ahead. All right. I want to hear this. Well,

1:09:57

okay, if you go back to turn a century at. Baseball and horse racing and boxing, and then slowly you add basketball and football into the mix, right? And those were the big five. Hockey to a lesser extent, you always had track and field. Always. Everybody was always interested in track and field. And they kind of ruled the rules there for a long time, but now, I mean the major sports, they’re not trying to cultivate a younger baseball surely is not trying to cultivate young kids anymore. They, I mean, they might, they can,

Nestor Aparicio  1:10:30

but it’s run by a bunch of old guys who don’t know anything about being a kid, right? And it’s mainly run by a bunch of old guys who never even played

1:10:36

baseball. I mean, it’s getting run by a corporate a kind of a corporate thing too. It used to be that they didn’t let corporations own teams. Did Peter

Nestor Aparicio  1:10:45

Angelo’s ever stand on a sandlot and play Bay? I wonder. You think he did? Sure he did. I don’t know. Wrong. Did his kids? I have a feeling John Angelos probably throws like a girl, that if I took him out there and gave him a mitt, he could not play catch with me. I have a feeling about that.

1:11:03

It’s happening all in sports. It happens in entertainment too. And if you, if you look into the newspapers, like, Okay, you want to bring up Bessie right? As a sports columnist, she writes a good style piece. I mean, basically that’s what she’s doing. She’s writing flops and and. But the thing is, is that they can’t afford the Sun paper. Can’t afford to bring in. They can’t have four or five columnists on staff anymore. Oh,

Nestor Aparicio  1:11:32

for 50 grand and a cup of coffee, and they put up with Jackman’s nonsense. He come back tomorrow.

1:11:37

First of all, they don’t need to, because there’s no other newspaper competition. Okay, it’s not like they’re completely stop

Nestor Aparicio  1:11:44

with that. Phil, agree or disagree. Let’s go point counterpoint with you. Well, I

Phil Jackman  1:11:47

haven’t heard the whole thing, but doing well so far on the on the competition thing.

Nestor Aparicio  1:11:52

Do you think the paper is not as good because there’s not competition? Would you agree or disagree with that?

Phil Jackman  1:11:58

I don’t know if they want to be good. I don’t think the morning sun ever really wanted to have a an outstanding sweats page? I don’t think that ever, ever kind of, the managing editor, the publisher, they were just happy with no stare. We pretty much trying to, pretty much run of the mill. That’s

1:12:15

surely how they’re running it now. I mean, they could, they could care less whether they have a good sports page now

Nestor Aparicio  1:12:19

or not. Do they honestly think that if their sports section was better, that they would sell more newspapers? I mean, I have no reason to pick up the news pack. I mean, I wish that there were two or three good reasons every day to spend 50 cent. I mean, it’s only 50 cents, but I want three solid opinions most days on whatever, on LeBron, James on the ravens, on on PJ ser off. I couldn’t understand.

Phil Jackman  1:12:43

The thing I couldn’t understand all the years I was there was why the Sunday sons works page wasn’t why they didn’t try to be like the Boston Globe, the Dallas Morning News. If you look at their Sunday you have to read every word for and usually the sections 28 pages of some rather, you’re reading that Tuesday and Wednesday. You know, they give, they give Peter Gammons a page for baseball, and you read it.

Nestor Aparicio  1:13:10

But in 1980 that’s the only place you could get information on the Minnesota Twins, if you were in Boston, was to read that or on the farm system. Now, with the internet and with ESPN, anything that’s in the Sunday paper that’s not a scoop or a real story. You read about it on Tuesday. I mean, let’s be honest, Phil, you wrote these kind of things most Sunday papers in America as of the 1980s those Sunday notes columns, the thing that Ken Murray now does on football or whatever, right? All these doing is picking up what was in the Green Bay paper on Wednesday, yeah, plus

Phil Jackman  1:13:41

putting the top on it right? That’s why I read and wrote calling notes all the time. I’m a sports fan. If I’m interested in this, everybody’s you know? I know you’re gonna try to appeal to two guys, you know? I

1:13:57

love notes columns. I still do. I like, I like the little snippets, and I like stuff coming from out of the country. I like sports illustrated where they take little quips out from, you know, and give a paragraph to a quirky little story. There’s some things that that’s all it’s worth, right, but right, and because exactly that’s why, that’s why novelists put out books or short stories every once in a while, because the story is only that big. But you know, I get my my column is now come from ESPN page two. That’s where I pick up. That’s where I get a chuckle, that’s where I get a laugh. That’s where I get my notes. That’s where I get my lists and things of that nature. Espn.com, page two is probably the best sports thing, as far as what I’m looking for in the country. And it’s fun to read, and it’s free, and it’s every day. Where’s the Sun paper? You know? Hey, The Washington Post is 10 times

Phil Jackman  1:14:54

better. Only stuff I read. I used to read. I used to write a column called reading time, two minutes. And guys, I love reading. It’s terribly funny, and they’d say, You mean preparation time? Two minutes. No, that used to take quite a while. And I’ll tell you why. There’s a knack is for writing a good notes column. A lot of people try it and they can’t do it, but it’s something that you polish and you work on, and after five years or so, you know where to go, where not to go, how to keep people’s in. A lot of people write a Notes column, and they’ll have one featured thing, and they’ll start out, and they’ll read, and they’ll read and they’ll write seven inches on one topic. That’s not what a Notes column is, three dots, right? Keep it moving. Keep it moving.

Nestor Aparicio  1:15:40

It’s like, what if you got seven paragraphs on a topic like today, don’t put

Phil Jackman  1:15:45

it in the notes column.

Nestor Aparicio  1:15:49

As a guy that does this 11 years, four hours a day, I can’t do four hours on one topic I got on any given show. Basically, my show is a four hour Notes column. And what it is. Here’s what I think of LeBron James in two minutes or less. Here’s what I think of Phil savage being promoted in two minutes or less. Here’s what I think of the Maryland situation, which is a far more serious thing for yesterday. So I talk about that for two hours yesterday. Here’s what I think of Bj sur off in the oral signing. So right there alone, if I’m a columnist in today’s newspaper, if I don’t have 15 or 20 inches of good stuff, four topics, five inches each, or just a whole column, like Preston did on Maryland, and I save Phil savage till tomorrow, or BJ sur off, or anything else that’s going on. Why the newspaper can’t do that? I have no idea. Well,

1:16:38

here’s the thing, the Baltimore Sun used to have some of the best writers in the country, and they’ve lost them in recent Hunter gone, Bill Carter gone. I never liked lit when he’s gone.

Nestor Aparicio  1:16:52

I never like JD. Considine is a rock music Rolling Stone. Liked him, yeah. I mean, I thought he was

1:16:57

absolutely brilliant. Jamie Considine was one of my favorite writers of all time. What is he? Now, you know,

Nestor Aparicio  1:17:03

because you never met him, but that’s another story. It has nothing to do with

1:17:08

a lot of people you don’t know, but they they read great I’m sure PJ works a terrible person to me, but he’s and Hunter Thompson, but they’re enjoyable to read. Now, I look at the Boston I look at the Washington Post, and they’ve got, they hold on to their writers, I guess because they have to. They have a big competition, and

Nestor Aparicio  1:17:27

Boswell and corn eyes and SALLY JENKINS have been there a dozen

1:17:30

years. But they’ve got great other writers too, and they’re in there. And the Sun paper, they’ve got the best writers, Candace Thompson, they bury her on Sunday 10 times the writer that Laura Vesey is, she’s fantastic, but they bury her deep on Sundays with it, with the outdoors. Now maybe that’s all she wants to do, but I’d much rather read Candace Thompson to twice a week than read Laura Bessie. And then I was calling this in that paper. I mean, I like Greg Kane, but again, he’s not the greatest writer in the whole world, Michael or lesker. He’s there by default, because I think you know, if they got rid of him and Roderick, so I don’t think either one of them are top notch writers. They don’t have great columnists at that paper anymore. And like Phil said, I don’t think they want to be a successful paper. I think they like losing money. It’s a Tribune Company, right?

Phil Jackman  1:18:24

Yeah, Chicago Tribune. I

1:18:26

think it’s flying. Baltimore can hemorrhage and they can wipe Baltimore off.

Nestor Aparicio  1:18:30

How weird is that when the Cubs come to town this year, the Orioles would be playing the team that owns the sun. You start to, when you start to get this, this interactive commingling of corporations, and that’s all strange. Most people,

1:18:44

again, the old timers and people that are over 30, they still like to have a newspaper in their hands and read it and fold it and bend it and move it everywhere. I

Nestor Aparicio  1:18:52

absolutely do too. It’s because they go to the bathroom twice, right? But

1:18:55

the bottom line is, is that you can get all the news you want, and you can get the Sun paper for free online. Now, how much longer that’s going to happen? I don’t know. You get the Washington Post, even if you didn’t and you were interested in good sports and news and Washington Post now covers the Ravens go in there and you pay 35 cents for it, some paper, the sun papers days are as a great paper, and it used to be a very good paper, although I thought the evening sun was a superior than the morning sun. The days when the Sun paper is a paper that meant something in this country have been over for 10

Nestor Aparicio  1:19:33

or 15 years now. Team on anything else for me now

1:19:37

that’s all. I can’t wait till summer gets here. But you know what? It’s not the same anymore. In part, because we’re getting older, I can, I can understand what Phil said, in part because I can’t comprehend the got the salaries and these, what these guys make, and the money that’s being made, and the guys that are playing with them, skip wise would have been a multi multimillion. Be in there. Eddie. Eddie, had he not been born 20 years too early or 30 years too early, he’d have been Kobe Bryant. He’d have been Kwame Brown. He would have been LeBron. James,

Nestor Aparicio  1:20:11

appreciate it. Yep. Thanks. Tebow. All right. Any comment there? Phil, any rebuttal? Are you done with him?

Phil Jackman  1:20:17

Wait. He covered too many subjects to nothing. Leaps to mind immediately. But you know the thing, you know, Alaska is a heck of a city columnist.

Nestor Aparicio  1:20:34

How are they getting rid of Michael ESCO tomorrow and replacing him?

Phil Jackman  1:20:38

How’s that gonna happen? Nobody, it’s he’s not. He doesn’t write in the style of Mike Rico or something. He’s a city guy, and he knows what’s going on on the city, and he writes the people who are interested in what’s going on, and they’re silly a city now, who this is, Dan Rodricks, is a completely different type, type guy hits and but every once in a while, he go on one one subject, and really does a good job. But

Nestor Aparicio  1:21:04

I find also, as a guy who has a voice in the media in this city, I’m not passionate about everything. I’m passionate about the things I’m passionate about. And that was one of the problems that got me in trouble doing a national show, is they would come to me every day and say, get passionate about the NBA today. Just at that point, it is contrived. And I think it sounds

Phil Jackman  1:21:22

those three guys he mentioned as a reader, an everyday reader. I read them every day. And the only time that Greg Kane, for instance, drives me up a wall is when we have to do the City College wrestling and the good old days. And he remembers the city poly game from that’s fine, every once in a while, but it’s always City College. And of course, Alaska went to City College. Also, you know, we’re gonna get a guy who went to poly, or a Loyola, or somebody else in there. And you know, he doesn’t do it too much. I’m kidding when I when I say that, but he went into great detail about some you should know the wrestling terms. They just went over my head. You know, if it’s not Hulk Hogan, forget it, right. There

Nestor Aparicio  1:22:08

you go. Or Andre the Giant. I’m not going to make you tell the Andre the Giant urination story. I’m not going to make you tell, oh, good 424, time to get some traffic. Wnst traffic is brought to you by Essex Jewelry Exchange. Valentine’s there at a corner. And you know where I’m going for my girl, Meredith, I’m going to Essex Jewelry Exchange, and I’m getting her $99 pendant, because I’m a cheapskate, and it’s going to look like I spent $999 but I’m getting in for less than one bill. 526, Eastern Boulevard in Essex 238, 2202 he asked for John. He asked for Ken, dad at the Essex Jewelry Exchange, Meredith to take off the cones of silence. Meredith, how about that beautiful, $1,000 pendant that I’m buying you? Well,

1:22:46

you know what? As you missed my birthday last year, you missed our one year anniversary this year, and you’re going to miss my birthday this year again. I should say that you should owe me a Valentine’s Day gift, and I would like that otherwise.

Nestor Aparicio  1:22:59

Yeah, of course, honey,

1:23:02

of course. Yeah, early birthday present, Valentine’s Day present. You can make it all in one you know, I’ve

Nestor Aparicio  1:23:07

got my kiss back, my sound effect. You want to hear it right now? Yeah, there it is, right there. Thank

1:23:12

you very much. Also

Nestor Aparicio  1:23:13

got that forever is going to marry you. What’s your boyfriend’s name? David? There it is, right here. I’m going to give you this too, to give to him. You not all bad. He gave me, gave me back my instant replay unit. Thank God for that.

1:23:28

Least he does something around there. What do you got? It’s reported the service of mid atlantic motorcycles. So we have wind warnings posted at Area bridges building up on the interlock between Charles Street and bravadan throat. Also have a bunch of accidents. McElwee at North Washington, York Road at West establish church. We have fallen power cables there. And also when West Benfield at seven crest drive for fallen trees on her traffic lights to be out best gate at Admiral drive over in the parole area. The big Mid Atlantic motorcycle show roars into the Timonium fairgrounds this Friday, Saturday and Sunday. See everything new the 2003 motorcycle industry has to offer, plus hundreds of custom and antique motorcycles, plenty of free parking. America Fox with nasty traffic on Sports Talk, 1570 WSC, thanks,

Nestor Aparicio  1:24:10

Mayor. All right, break it back. Add to the phone lines here and Miles been holding forever. I want to bring up one thing with you, Phil, the problem I have, not only with this newspaper, but with the media in general, and as and I, you know, I noticed this every time I get with large groups of media, and excuse me, coming back from the Super Bowl, I always aspired to be a sports writer. Never really aspired to be a radio guy. At some point my career, I aspired to be Scott Garcia or Chris Thomas, you know, doing the two minute newscast back when that was a big deal. But I’ve never, ever wanted to work on SportsCenter or any of that kind of stuff. It was, never been my goal to be Dan Patrick, but I go to these events now, and I see the top of the top, the cream of the crop, the best in our business, the highest paid in our business. And I see so little passion or love. Four, one or one, a pick one either their job, which is being a reporter or sportscaster, whatever it is the act of being a media member, a journalist, or the love of what they cover, be it football, basketball, baseball, hockey. And I like to think that any success that I’ve had has been that I do have a passion for a couple things. I have a passion for our city, and I have a passion for the sports teams that play in our city, and I think I have some sort of a passion for justice in sports in our city, that the team gives something back, they do the right thing, that the players aren’t a bunch of jerks, and when they are jerks, I call them out on it. And the problem that I have with the media, and a big way, is that there’s no passion left for it. I knew you from the mid 80s. I’ve known you about 20 years. I still sense that you have an agenda, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, but you have a soapbox that you want to get on, that that’s been taken away from you because you don’t write anymore, but you still have something to say. You have a voice, maybe curmudgeonly, or as your your mug says grumpy, or whatever it is, but it is a voice, and that’s something that I don’t see in Mike Preston. It’s something I don’t see in Laura Vesey. I don’t see an agenda. And God bless Steadman. And now you get your differences with John. I love John and I John did go too far with Buddy young stadium and with the Babe Ruth stadium thing, with a bunch of other things. But you know what? He had a stump, he had a soapbox, and he got up on it. And whatever that is, I respect anybody who does that, but I want to see some passion. I mean, Mike Preston should get down on his hands and knees, along with Milton Kent and Laura Vesey and anybody else that has a pen down at that newspaper. Because as little boys or little girls, that’s all they wanted to do. They grew up wanting to do this. And the day I don’t want to do it anymore, and it’s coming before the age of 40, probably for me, that I will get tired of doing this and I won’t want to do it anymore, and the last thing I want to be doing is hanging on doing it when I don’t want to do it anymore. And they take a guy like you who still would love to do it, if they’d leave you the hell alone, and go do it, and they replace you with people who are well paid, well compensated, to do what they grew up wanting to do. And then they go and do it. All they do is bitch about it and are half hearted and disinterested in doing it. And I think that that’s a shame. Do you have any Well, it all

Phil Jackman  1:27:19

comes down to training. I remember Lee Montville once wrote a column in the wassing Globe before he went to Sports Illustrated. And it was sort of an apology. He said he hadn’t met, you know, this is when girls were making their their mock they were coming in. And the first 10 women he saw writing, they were doing it because on a whim or something. And then a girl, I forget who they’re doing

Nestor Aparicio  1:27:42

it, because somebody let them do it, yeah, not because they, you know, oh, you’re a girl. We need one of them in sports come over and do it. And we had 10 of those at the evening sun. Then

Phil Jackman  1:27:51

he met somebody who and I did that. At that point, I hadn’t met any girl that took sports as seriously is life and death. As so many guys you come from, you can come from a generation of I mean, I played high school football with a bunch of guys who who could care less and anything about football I wanted to learn, you know, but these guys, it was a way to get a letter or a girlfriend or something, rather than, I couldn’t understand that approach. Well, that’s what, if you go to the Super Bowl and you see 1200 guys or something or other, it’s a bunch of guys, because it’s an easy job. It’s, it’s glamorous and in some respects, or something rather, but their training was, well, yeah, that that’s, that’s pretty good. You get to travel around and things I never thought of that. I, you know, what? Used to watch every pitch of a baseball game. I wasn’t there to, you know, to be a guest on between innings. You used

Nestor Aparicio  1:28:43

to get on a train at two o’clock in the afternoon and take a train to New York City to watch a Rangers capitals game in the middle of February in a 20 degree day. Nobody at the newspaper cared whether or not you filed your 12 or 15 inches on a capitals Rangers game, but you felt compelled to do it because it was still fun for you. No, it should be in

Phil Jackman  1:29:04

the paper. See, we seem to be kicking but you want out of the morning sun. There’s so many things. A split spade should be balanced, and whether they know it or not, the Stanley Cup playoff should be in the paper when guy Lafleur comes to the capital center and is chasing the scoring title, remember, at the end of the year, correct? He got three goals and two assists, and the five points wasn’t enough. He must have lost a Lemieux or somebody or other. You know, that has to be in the paper. Whether anybody’s going to read it on sooner or later, they will. You know, years ago, I came back from a capitals game, and the capitals game stunk, and I stuck around after, and I watched Mount St Joe play de Mathur, I think it was, and it was for something called the MSA Hockey Championship. Now, something nobody in the city knew existed, probably. And I was amazed at how good the hockey was. They were as good as college teams were. 20 years ago now, all these kids didn’t learn how to skate and stick handle and things like that in 15 minutes. They had been going to expensive. So I come back to the paper and I said, you know, I know we don’t want to take on a great deal. We’ve got enough sports now, but once a month we should run the standings. So finally, this is 10 years ago, more than that. Finally, we are doing something. Mike Frannie does a Notes column on hockey and things like that. But you know it’s coming. And you know if you if you’re a hockey a mother or father, you know you have to buy an extra car to just transfer. If the kids are goalie, you have to transport the kid around.

Nestor Aparicio  1:30:39

Tom Cat, my dear friend, his kids are goalie in it. You know, he didn’t even like hockey. Did he go to summer camp? Yeah, he goes to summers. What did you ready? Oh, you know, half his mortgage. So,

Phil Jackman  1:30:49

yeah. So this is, and I said, you know, let’s get in on the ground floor here and at least run the standings. How about this? Ever since the bandits left, have you seen one word of the standings in the American Hockey League ever? You know, I’m saying you don’t run them every time they come over the wire, but on a Sunday, you could slip in the American Hockey League because at one time, there were six major league teams, and the six best minor league teams were the American Hockey League, and Baltimore was a big part of it. And there is a hot not a huge hockey tradition. So

Nestor Aparicio  1:31:23

you know, more hockey fans in this city than there are hood women’s college basketball fans. Hood played Wilson last night, and hood 176 to 54 and the paper says there were 145 people there. Now that takes about as much space in there as running the HL scores. And I guarantee there’s more interest in the Hershey bears. Well, if you run the run local team, it’s college basketball. If

Phil Jackman  1:31:46

you run one local team, you got to run them all, you know, and they’re not local. I mean, state, you know, Frostburg State and Salisbury state. And you know, there’s, there’s a million little schools. And if you, if you treat, I’m surprised, you know, we run a full box score, as opposed to what they do in high school, which is just a line No, no, they do line score. And you know what? I the last month I worked down there, I used to take box scores over the phone, and I’d always want to have five people, because it’s a five person game. And they said, Well, they didn’t score. And I said, so what? We’ll put zero in there. But if you look at some of those, if only three girls score, three boys scores, we only have three names. And now a guy’s reading along, and he sees the team gets clubbing, and he says, No wonder they only had three players,

Nestor Aparicio  1:32:31

433, we’ll get back to Owings, Mills burial. We’re coming to get you. Hang in there, everybody. I’m gonna take some phone calls here. Phil Jackman in studio having a lively debate today, Here on a Tuesday, stay with us.

1:32:47

Wnst to

1:33:00

have. Wave audio now offers jingles from solo voice to 100 voice, choruses, from acoustic accompaniment to full orchestras and effects. Wave audio can make it happen. Wave audio now produces jingles that have your business jumping off the radio in four four time, 60s rock, beach music, folk, hard rock, whatever best suits your business. Jingles give your business an instantly identifiable sound, but people remember and of course, jingles get everyone’s toes tapping. Why just say it with words when wave audio can sing it with music. Call us today at 410-820-8088, wave audio really can make it happen for you.

1:33:45

Have we make it happen?

Nestor Aparicio  1:33:48

Nasty Nestor Aparicio here to tell you one more time about my favorite Dundalk eatery. It’s squires on Halliburton Avenue. You can enjoy squires great lunch menu, the sandwiches, the subs, the outstanding buffet, including the legendary pizza pie. Stop by, grab your best girl and head on over to squires for dinner. Check out the weekday specials. Monday is steak night. 25% off all steaks on the menu, served with salad and bread. Eat it only. Tuesday night, pizza night. That’s my favorite. All cheese pizzas, just 699 for the best pizza in the land toppings are extra. Wednesday, jumbo steam shrimp night, the biggest, baddest steam shrimp for just 1295, a pound, 695, for a half pound. And last, but not least, there’s pasta night on Thursday. Just like my mom used to do, all you can eat spaghetti, syrup with salad and bread. Just 695, you can eat out every night at Squires. You can afford to deliver your sit down. Donning, there’s only one place to remember a true classic, Squires, dad, dog, hon,

1:34:47

here’s your pizza. Man,

1:34:48

great. How much do I owe you? Wow. Man, nice

1:34:51

pad. Hey, how much you pay for this place? A month? What?

1:34:54

Listen, I’m

1:34:55

in the middle of a game, and I look at these vaulted ceilings. Killer. Hey, you’ve. Got a huge deck. Hey, wait, you can’t just come in and walk around my place? Whoa. Nice view. Thanks. I

1:35:06

think I can see my mom’s house from here. Hey, Mom, the Pizza. Yeah, here you go, dude. Where

1:35:11

are you going?

1:35:12

Oh, man, look at the size of this tub.

1:35:15

Is this a Jacuzzi?

1:35:17

What are you doing? Will you get out of my tub? Can I just pay my bill? Oh, yeah, sure, do no problemo, Hey, where’d you find this place anyway? Apartmentguide.com

1:35:28

they have complete listings, photos, floor plans and toll free numbers so you can get a hold of a leasing manager quick. Maybe you could find one. Yeah, across town, way, way across

1:35:40

apartmentguide.com

1:35:41

you know how to live. We know where to live,

1:35:47

by the grace of God. 24 hours a day, Sports Talk. 1570 Unst

1:36:14

21st century is yesterday.

Nestor Aparicio  1:36:33

Welcome back. It is 438 we are the Bubba Ajah sports forum for all you do this, Bud for you. Phil Jackman in studio, formerly of the evening sun, currently, of the perioele high school athletics, I think, and probably of the Jackman garden association or something like that. You do a lot of gardening now. Phil, gardening, no, no gardening.

Phil Jackman  1:36:53

I don’t grow things that live. So, no, I don’t, God, I do a lot of landscaping, landscape that, oh, I worked like, I got three calls of an acre PAL and you were talking to me. You don’t want to do that. Come do mine, you know, yeah, when you roll how much, you know, I’m not a slave. I work it out. I don’t work up a price.

Nestor Aparicio  1:37:15

No, but to jaded athletes, that’s

Phil Jackman  1:37:16

a lot of fun. I never, I never realized it was a younger man. But you know, now it’s no, you know, everybody in my neighborhood, so you got to get a riding. Well, why would I do that? You know, I go to go to work out for a while, and they come. I, you know, you go to the you used to go to the club valleys. Yes, right. Do you still go? Not to that guy? I have a gym in my house, actually, okay. But anyway, you walk in there and people will wait a minute and a half for a parking space right at the front door, and then they’re going into where I always

Nestor Aparicio  1:37:45

think that’s the fighting for a parking spot. Close.

Phil Jackman  1:37:47

What’s going on? 439

Nestor Aparicio  1:37:50

we’re gonna take some phone calls miles. Get back on the phone. I want to get you in here Perry Hall for Ed. Ed, welcome. Say hello to Phil.

1:37:56

Hello. How you doing very well. Thank you. You know, I also live in Perry Hall and Phil, you know, I might be mistaken, but, you know, I believe that, you know, around two weeks ago we had a, there was a show that they talked about Eddie Murray, and that was really, you know, upset about the show with Eddie Murray, and the fact that they were talking about him, and that, you know, certain people who wrote about him. And I do believe that you were one that did next very, very many negative comments about him. And I believe that Eddie Murray was other than Frank Robinson, the most important, you know, person in the Oriole you know, including, you know, Brooks, Robinson, Cal Ripken. And I mean, do you have anything to say about that? Am I wrong about what that you were very negative about and the fact that he left town. No,

Phil Jackman  1:38:44

you never said a word about him. Really, the only, the only dealing I had with Eddie Murray was I was coming out of the DuPont Plaza down in this is after I was done baseball. And

Nestor Aparicio  1:38:57

what did you wrap up baseball was your last year as a baseball feat. Pardon, seven,

Phil Jackman  1:39:01

the playoff, 7374 Oh, okay, so you done that early? Yeah, I’m doing columns, but I’m going out to the, you know, 79 World Series. Fine, but after that, um, but come on, walking out of the hotel, and he’s going out to the ballpark, and he’s got his car, and he says, You want to ride out to the ballpark? And I said, No, unless you want to take me out to the airport, because I’m going home to Baltimore. And he says, Well, I wish I was so that’s where was this? It DuPont Plaza in Miami, Miami, when they were still down there. No, I wasn’t

1:39:31

well in any event, Phil, I apologize. You know, I thought it was you No, and you know, I called, you know, just for that purpose. And obviously I’m wrong. No,

Phil Jackman  1:39:39

I’ll tell you one thing that Eddie forgets is all those years where Eddie, Eddie, yeah, there’s a lot of there’s a lot of jerks, and I can see where, you know, to blame it all on Dick young and what he wrote during the World Series, and I don’t even remember the article. I remember reading it at the time, and Dick went into family matters and things like that. It. But you know, you It’s like being in the entertainment business. You don’t pick up the star or the inquirer and, you know, get hate everybody. You get upset about everything they’ve written about you, because they’re going to continue to do it. And if they know they can get your goat, they’re never going to let up on the thing.

1:40:17

Obviously, that happened to him. I mean, you know, personally, I mean to me again, I think, I don’t think anybody can say that he’s not one of the most you know important person as far as baseball in this town ever. And you know, the fact is, I do believe that the you know, the newspaper writers, whatever you know, kicked him out of town.

1:40:35

Why don’t we, by the way, I

1:40:38

apologize, and you know, obviously it wasn’t, you know. Why

Phil Jackman  1:40:41

don’t we blame it on the owner to remember when the EBW, why don’t you get your eyes checked or lunch, get in better shape? All of that, all of that, all of that stuff should have, should have just gone off Eddie’s back. You know, in many respects, he was obviously too sensitive. In some areas, Brooks is awfully sensitive, too, and one of the main reasons for it was the fact he never got blessed. He never got criticized. Well, there was no no reason to ever criticize him. You know, he he was mad at Neil Eskridge for years because Neil said one time that he was hitting a scintillating 175 or something brother, and Brooks just didn’t like the word scintillating. So forget it. I mean, he didn’t. He didn’t make a big deal out of it some other but it hurt him, you know. And if, if you’re in the public eye, glad, you gotta have a thick skin. I

Nestor Aparicio  1:41:31

think athletes today, and it’s just my experience being rat. Most athletes are. They can look down and see they’re hitting 175 and they know they stink, and they’ll gladly fess up to you. I mean, I just from my experience, like with the ravens, for instance, the offensive line stinks in a game and they give up three or four sacks, and they’re just getting their ass kicked all over the field. I’ll give an example, the Tampa Bay game this year. They didn’t score, they didn’t move the ball. They stunk. Tampa Bay, just Tampa Bay looked like World Champions today. They beat the Ravens. Here, I went into the offensive line, and Ogden and Flynn and Molotov right down the line, they all said, I stunk, and they’re almost laughing about it, because they they know they’re gonna have to watch the film tomorrow, and they know how bad they’re gonna look, and they know they’re better than that, and they know they stunk, and they had a bit they’re willing to admit, Hey, I just I wasn’t very Good today, and I think maybe 20 years ago, because writers didn’t criticize the way they were on the trains with the players back in the 50s and 60s, or whatever, the players were maybe a little bit more sensitive to criticism then than they are now. But I also find that I’ve criticized Ray Lewis one time in seven years. I didn’t even criticize him in a murder trial. I defended him in a murder trial, and I criticized him one time, about one week, about holding effort camp. And now he doesn’t speak to me because Ray Lewis has never been criticized about his play or about it, and I find that the guy, the premier guys, are twice as sensitive to the criticism. Eddie Murray had never been criticized for Freddie was Eddie. Eddie, Eddie, autograph. Eddie. We love you. Eddie. Can I and then Eddie gets criticized, and Eddie doesn’t take that. You said Brooks was even that way. Who was

Phil Jackman  1:43:09

the toughest guy historically on radio in this town? Reputation, Ekman. Ekman, you know, he had the thinnest skin, and late in life, Charlie realized he had probably Can you imagine an NBA official and a coach and an ACC official going down and doing all those games down Tobacco Road, and I never knew this until I was on a million shows with him. He had a thin skin. It’s amazing. Everybody has a thin skin, but you can’t let on that you do. Nobody

Nestor Aparicio  1:43:41

likes to be criticized, even me. I love it. You love to criticize me. 445 wnst traffic brought to you by tullys in Parkville. Tullys restaurant over the putty Hill shopping center is not only the best place in the world deal Thursday nights, but it’s also your NASCAR home every Sunday, beginning with the Daytona 500 next Sunday saw you. I used the word hillbillies in a loving fashion. Cheer on your favorite driver every Sunday with great food drink specials during each race only at Tully you know tullys is so good. Ray one Sunday, I’m gonna go over them and watch NASCAR tullys. I’m gonna do it 665, 9100, course would be a day when college basketball is on. I’ll just be pretending to watch. NASCAR Meredith is here with the wnst Travis Go ahead, Mayor. Thank you

1:44:26

very much. The support is a service of fourth President’s Day sales event. You’re gonna find wind warnings posted at Area bridges heavy on the interloop between 95 in the windsome mill overpass. Same on the outer loop from 70 towards 95 no problems at your tunnels, looking pretty good northbound. Watch for a few problems down the area, though you’re gonna find a late Eastern Avenue at 10. Eastern Avenue at South High Street for police activity. West Benfield at seven crest. Drive for fallen trees. Also watch for disabled vehicle. West on White Marsh Boulevard at lair road. President saves time. Honor the nation’s greatest leaders, and Ford is leading the way with America’s best selling cars and trucks. Visit your Ford dealer for huge cash back or special loads. Anything? Hurry to your local Ford dealer. I’m Meredith marks with nasty traffic on Sports Talk, 1570 wnsc, thanks

Nestor Aparicio  1:45:05

a lot too. It’s all right. We’ll check back in Meredith a little later on right now. 447 we’ll take a break. Phil, hang on. Nasty Nestor Aparicio, we’re live here on the Budweiser sports forum on a phenomenal Tuesday edition. Back with more. Phil Jackman, right after this.

1:45:23

Next up,

1:45:25

by the grace of God, 24 hours a day Sports Talk, 1570 wnst.

1:45:33

Hey, Terps fans, you’re looking for a place in Parkville to watch the games, just head on over to dead Freddy’s on Harford road. You can watch a defending national champion meadow and terrapins on the monster screens. Get $1 domestic drafts and $1 Terp shooters during the games. Come on in hungry and feast on sandwiches, salads and burgers for lunch or dinner. Grab some buffalo wings and a few cold beers. A dead phrase. On Hartford Road in Parkville, there’s food and drink special seven days a week, like a pound of shrimp and a pitcher of domestic beer only 895, on Mondays, half price hamburgers and two for one domestic bottles on Thursdays, dead phrases open daily from 11am to 2am dead. Freddy’s, 7209 Harford road call 410-254-8373, that’s 410-254-8373, for log on to www.deadfreddys.com. For info about upcoming promotions or directions and visit the brand new dead Freddy’s in Bel Air at 660 Bolden Street, right behind the Harford Mall.

1:46:34

Would friends or family of yours ask you to get Baltimore colt or Baltimore oriole autographs when you went to work? No, they knew I wouldn’t do it broadcast Hall of Famer and Baltimore legend Chuck Thompson for Robbie’s first base of timonia.

1:46:46

No, I never bothered the players unless something very special came along that, let’s say, a child in a hospital bed or something like that. Then I would go out and make sure I could get it for them. For great

1:46:56

sports memorabilia, Robbie’s first base will be your first choice. Robbie collects the biggest names in sports, especially Baltimore sports. That’s quite a collection.

1:47:04

He has an outstanding collection. It really is even more than the collection is the man himself. He’s a very, very nice person. He’s just a good, solid, down

1:47:14

to earth person. Turn to the man. Chuck Thompson does for great sports memorabilia. Robbie’s first base of Timonium at the corner of York and Ridgely roads, 410, 560, 3200, Robbie’s first base.

1:47:33

Looking for a sports bar on the west side of town. We’ll check out Toms sports Tavern in Randallstown. Toms has 15 TVs and a monster screen so you can watch the Terps and all the college hoops action starting on February 5. Toms will have comedy shows and open mic night every Wednesday night. Call Toms at 410-922-4489, for more details, Toms has weekday food specials like seafood on Mondays. 25 cent wings on Tuesday 799, a pound shrimp on Wednesdays and 50 cent tavern burgers on Thursdays. Packaged goods are available 365 days a year, and the kitchen is always open late. Toms now delivers lunch to businesses in the Randallstown area. Call 410-922-4489, for a menu, toms, sports tavern, 9307 Liberty Road in Randallstown, four and a half miles outside the Beltway next to the Ford dealership. 410-922-4489, it’s Tom sports tavern,

1:48:31

by the grace of God, 24 hours a day, Sports Talk. 1570, wnst, 450,

Nestor Aparicio  1:48:42

welcome back. It’s about it’s Bucha sports for Phil Jackman in today, and we’re having some fun. And tomorrow we’re doing some hockey. I got the hockey Meg’s coming in at two o’clock hour. We’re gonna play the Hartford Whalers fight song tomorrow. Phil, do you remember Hartford Whalers fight song? The whale you remember that?

Phil Jackman  1:48:56

No, I remember the announcer. Copy of it here. Guy with that fierce French accent. Kenny

Nestor Aparicio  1:49:01

Albert’s gonna join us tomorrow. We got a call out to Commissioner Gary Bettman. He may be joining us tomorrow, Baltimore, blasting studio. Bobby mcavan will be here. Two blast members named to the M, i, s, l, all star team will cover all of that and more. Tomorrow’s a little hockey program tomorrow. Phil, you know I was talking about earlier, you know, obviously slow week in sports, and the sports sections tiny and all that stuff, but it gives me a chance to stretch out. Bring guys like you want to do just something a little different, little off the beaten path, some shows we’ve been saving up, some articles I’ve clipped out that have ideas and book authors and all that kind of stuff. And you were watching the downhill skiing, and I know we’re talking about an hour ago. What is your opinion on some of the sports that I guess in my youth took on more significance, probably because I had more time in my day. I mean, I I loved watching Wimbledon. I loved watching Bjorn Borg and Jimmy Connors and McEnroe and Martina and Chris Everett and I mean, I followed tennis as. A kid in a way that I don’t now, perhaps horse racing, which has gone the way the Edsel in our whole state, and the Olympics seem to have less significance in our country than they’ve ever had before. And I don’t know why that is. I mean, I was in Scandinavia during the Winter Olympics last year, and I couldn’t go anywhere in Oslo, Stockholm, Amsterdam, without people everywhere tuning in to every event, it was like the World Series of the Super Bowl. Even the World Series doesn’t have the significant significance it had in the past, but I’m going to Wimbledon this year, and I’m excited about that, but I can’t tell you that I would sit and watch Wimbledon if I were home, because I haven’t that much anymore, not the way I did, at least when it gets to the quarterfinals to watch all of the last few matches that are going. What is it about the minor events that have become more minor in our country?

Phil Jackman  1:50:55

Professional sports, you know, amateur sports, there wasn’t that much professional sports, going way back in amateur, amateur sports, as if, and then I’m telling you, at one time, college football was big in baseball, college football was it. And boxing came in a little bit, because you had glamorous, you know, when they had eight divisions, glamorous champions, and there were good guys. And it wasn’t strictly a money thing. And it was, you know, a big fight was on radio, not until, you know, the the or close circuit, the Billy Khan and Joe Lewis fights. Everybody within earshot of a radio was listening to that, especially in 46 when he almost beat him in 41 and they don’t fight for five years. It’s after the war. It’s the first big fight after the war. But the

Nestor Aparicio  1:51:45

big fights the last 20 years, the problem is the big fights haven’t been made. Tyson never fought Holyfield when they both were good. Tyson never fought Lennox Lewis when they Lewis never fought Holyfield when they were both good. They purposely, over the last 20 years, they don’t make good fights anymore. The

Phil Jackman  1:52:01

the worst part of boxing is when the boxer became secondary to his management to promote it, you know. But also

Nestor Aparicio  1:52:12

the shamble alphabet soup, that’s

Phil Jackman  1:52:14

the only way they could protect themselves, you know. And there’s four or five alphabet soup and all that other business. What it comes down to is Aram versus King, and now Showtime and HBO come into it, and the whole thing gets away from two guys getting into the ring and the manly odd of self defense. There’s no such thing in boxing nowadays if a guy’s 17 and oh, he’s got a shot at a title, and the champion will give him a shot at the title because he doesn’t want to fight this guy when the guy has learned his business. And none of those guys learn get a chance to learn their business. If you look at the record, pick up the the ring record book sometime and look at common Basilio. Are all those great middleweights of the 1950s Welterweights sugar before he fought sugar. Ray Robinson, and he had a chance at it. You know, he’d probably gone 85 fights. I remember Basilio. I use him as an example. He didn’t have a punch his first 50 fights. So the poor guy was going to decisions. And, you know, he’s fighting 10 rounds all the time before he can stature guy and get the hell out of there in two or three rounds. He learned his business. LaMotta, Graziano, all of those guys. Just look at any of the old time fights and and, you know, these guys know how to take care of themselves. You know, they don’t bleed all over the ring. They don’t get one in the stomach and genuflect and get out. You know, out of the ring they were, they were in it. They learned the business. It all came down to training. They’re not trained nowadays. They really, you know. And you talk to trainers, and they said, this kid doesn’t have this hot in it, you know. But I use them, you know? I use them anyway, because this is all I get coming in

Nestor Aparicio  1:53:55

mid 80s, I meet you. You become sort of a fatherly figure to me and a mentor. Many ways. We spent a lot of time going to hockey games, doing stuff you always had a fascination with the Olympics and with amateur sports, with track and field. What about the Olympics? Should people 99.9% of my audience listening right now has never been to an Olympic event in LA and Atlanta, Calgary, Seoul or any Albertville, you name it, Innsbruck, wherever you’ve been to several of these. What about the Olympics? Hold your attention in a way that it, quite frankly, never did for me. I didn’t know if it was a generational thing. I don’t know if it was Munich. I don’t you know. I don’t know what it is about the Olympics. Well,

Phil Jackman  1:54:36

in the old days, the Olympics were a track meet, all that other stuff went on. And they didn’t have 27 sports, like they have no it was about finding the fastest man in the world, yeah, and that, and the track meet the second week was the big deal. I asked, what’s his name, Greenspan? But Greenspan, when, you know, and he’s the greatest put puts out seven, you know, 16. Days at Sarajevo and 16 days here that he’s the, you know, the the the guy who produces the the film for the for the Olympics, the official film, and all this other but he’s been doing this, Steve sable of the Olympics, right? Okay. He’s been doing it since 1492 and I said, What was your favorite Olympics? And he says, the last one. And I said, What do you mean by the last one? He said, The Last time it was fun, it was Mexico City in 68 because it’s commercial. Now it’s so big, and in this country it’s always been. We’re interested in the Olympics. The two weeks at the Olympics are on. We’re interested

Nestor Aparicio  1:55:35

also when United States people do well, and in the Winter Olympics, we general other than figure skating. We generally

Phil Jackman  1:55:40

don’t what you were talking about Oslo. And were you there for the summer? I was in Oslo for the winter. They got a chance to win. They they’re no different there than than you know, I can assure you. If you were in Oslo or somewhere like that, in 1924 when they had gun to Haig and Willie rotola And they were winning all the time, they’d be going crazy during the winter a Summer Olympics. You probably have to shout to tell them it’s going on. Europeans love that. As I was telling you about the about the downhill, we go to this place, 55 miles west of Calgary. And now you will put in Banff with the second new Banff, okay, Lake Louise. And number one, they put, they put the they put the ski resort on the wrong side of the mountain. You know, which that? That’s Canada. Anyway, permanza brigand was the guy. Never forget this guy, because he was going to win three races or something. They ended up didn’t win any. But as I said, Me and dange went above the tree line, and this guy came by us at 75 miles an hour, and there’s none of this doing a little J to slow down. Some rather, those guys are going down this mountain. And as soon as that was over half the people who were interested in skiing from Europe left, you know, they weren’t into the slalom or the other by Athlon and things like that. That is the to them. That’s the greatest athlete in the world, the guy that can go down the mountain the fastest. And now I see we have this, it’s a main event now, where? Well, it’s almost like

Nestor Aparicio  1:57:11

a game of chicken, because that’s what it is. You know, to be the fastest, you have to have not a care in the

Phil Jackman  1:57:17

world. Well, that’s why I mentioned it, because on it’s Evil Knievel was what it is my ESPN here we saw our guy go down and go over one of the lumps and lose his horizon, or something. Rather, he landed right on the top of his head, you know. So it’s very dangerous. And all you have to do, I was on the mount one day at Mount Allen, and a guy, a girl, who was on television doing color. She’s a former really good skier for us, and she came down and she was taking a right into a, you know, coming down a hill, and you can quit a third of the way down, or something or other. And she’s coming in, she’s taking a right under here. You’re not supposed to take a left from another trail. Well, a guy, a volunteer, came winging in. He took a left and he was 215 pounds, and he he almost split her in two, broke her leg. And this, that the other thing. So, you know, you see stuff like that. Now, that same Olympics, a guy fell under a snow making machine and things like that. I don’t know what I’m what I’m telling you all this gory stuff about, but, you know, being at the Olympics, it all goes down to who’s going to win medals five o’clock

1:58:25

Mooch and Millen in the Motor City. Hello again, everyone. I’m Doug Russell head. Here’s what’s happening. It’s official. The Detroit Lions and Michigan native Steve Mariucci are a match. The two sides agree today to a reported five year $25 million contract. Mariucci will be introduced at a news conference at four Eastern tomorrow at Ford Field as the lion’s fourth head coach in the last four years. Mariachi has quite a history, by the way, of tutoring young quarterbacks like Joey Harrington, given a lot of credit by packers quarterback Brett Farr, from their days in the early to mid 90s during Mariucci stay in Green Bay. Midwife jets defensive coordinator Ted Cottrell and 40 Niners General Manager Terry Donahue will meet tomorrow for a second time regarding what is now the lone head coaching vacancy in the NFL so far, Cottrell the only candidate to be invited back a second time. Yesterday, Donahue spoke with bears defensive coordinator Greg blasch at Donahue, Southern California home. However, today, New England Patriots Defensive Coordinator Romeo Cornell was informed that he is no longer under consideration for the post, leaving only Cottrell and blush as candidates, both Tampa based Monte Kiffin and Philadelphia’s Jim Johnson were candidates as well, but both withdrew their names from consideration, staying with their own teams instead. In other football news, the Denver Broncos and kicker Jason Elon today agree on a new five year, $9 million contract extension. That contract would include a signing bonus of just over two and a half million dollars. LeBron James attorney asked a court today to block a ruling that bars James from playing the rest of the season. James was declared ineligible on Friday by the Ohio High School Athletic Association for accepting a pair of throwback sports jerseys worth $845 from a clothing store. And a Houston judge ordered former National League MVP Ken kamenetti into a state. Run drug treatment facility today, giving him one more chance to avoid jail time for cocaine use came in any turned himself over to the court today and was to stay at the Harris County Jail in Houston until arrangements are made at the rehab center just north of the city of Houston. That’s the latest Sporting News Flash. I’m Doug Russell. You

2:00:24

it for every time someone said you couldn’t do it, but every time they said you didn’t have what it takes, prove them wrong. In the US Navy, we’ll challenge you, but more importantly, you’ll challenge yourself. If you’re ready, check out the life accelerator@navy.com or call one 800 USA, navy, it’s the shortest distance between where you are and where you want to be. Navy, accelerate your life.

2:00:54

Gee, Scott, you finished your dinner so quickly I know. Let’s hurry over to the sofa. My

2:01:04

way, hold your horses, take it slow with extended pleasure, latex condoms from Trojan, the only condom with a special climax control lubricant so you can go the distance clear

2:01:14

the calendar. Great job is done here. Trojan,

2:01:17

extended pleasure, latex condoms. Trojan, the most trusted for longer lasting pleasure

2:01:24

Sports Talk. 1570

2:01:25

Is it a performance car? Yes.

2:01:27

Is it a multi purpose carry our car, costly if you’re buying a used car. Is a car? It’s the remarkable

2:01:33

new matrix from Toyota. It’s cutting edge transportation, and it’s all Toyota. Stop and Stare. Good looks, standard air conditioning, up to 180 horsepower. And matrix is full of possibilities. With a rear cargo track system with eight adjustable tie down hooks, 212 gold outlets and more. Matrix is designed to be whatever you want. Get the feeling Toyota.

Nestor Aparicio  2:01:55

I’m cruising around Baltimore a hot, new fully loaded 2003 matrix. The Matrix is cutting edge transportation with up to 180 horsepower, a rear cargo track system with eight adjustable die down hooks to 12 volt outlets and more. Check out one for yourself at WWW dot buy a toyota.com take a look at Toyota’s line of SUVs and trucks, including the Forerunner that adelius Thomas is driving and the sequoias that John Ogden and Michael McQueary right around town in test drive a 2003 matrix truck or SUV at your local Toyota dealer today.

2:02:27

Let me tell you about a great place to eat and watch the ball games. It’s Rocky Run, tap and grill with three locations in Baltimore, rocky runs, locally owned and a laid back place with 10 beers on tap, including their own. Rocky Run, tap and grill micro grooves. Check out the great happy hour from four to seven, Monday through Friday. Drop by any of the three Rocky Run locations and sample the delicious steaks, pastas, fajitas, sandwiches and the signature crab preps. Or check out some of their great weekday dinner specials and tempt your taste buds with some of the 50 varieties of hot sauce. Catch, college hoops, the NBA, NHL, O 20 televisions, look for great food and drink specials during all the games. Rocky Run has three locations in Baltimore, 31st in St Paul in Charles village, near Johns, Hopkins, Marley station mall in Glen, Burnie and route 175, in Dobbin Road in Columbia. Great food, big portions, easy on new wallet. It’s Rocky Run, tap and grill. I

Nestor Aparicio  2:03:25

gotta tell you about the Orioles. Last summer, we took over 1500 of you crazy wnst listeners to an OS game that was back in June. In December, we told you all about the new junior Orioles dugout club, and more than 300 people signed up in six hours. We haven’t steered you wrong yet. Baseball is right around the corner. Spring training. You can order your O season tickets now. They have 1329, 81 game plans. They’re still available. Lower box and upper deck seats, starting as low as 149 bucks each. My boy, Matt dryers down and waiting for your phone call. Give him a call, 685, 9800, and you’ll have the option to buy seats for opening day. You get a package and get opening day seats. That’s Monday, March 31 and it’s always hard to get tickets. So call 685, 9800 during normal business hours. You talk to Matt dryer, any of the sales reps there about O season tickets, make sure you tell the folks in the warehouse that you were sent there by us. Maybe we’ll give you a wall clock or something. So mention wnst When you call the Orioles 685, 9800 for season tickets. 685, 9800 for season sports. Talk,

2:04:25

1570,

2:04:42

nasty. Master. You wanna.

2:05:00

Get nasty,

2:05:05

that everybody get nasty. Come on.

2:05:11

Everybody get nasty. Let’s stop everybody

2:05:13

in the house.

2:05:14

Come on. Come on. Let me count it

Nestor Aparicio  2:05:21

off. Check it out.

2:05:21

Y’all. It All.

2:05:24

Check it out. Check it out for no particular reason, just to have one

2:05:30

simple fact that I came

2:05:37

along the brother trying to play back to the moon woman. Welcome

Nestor Aparicio  2:05:42

in. It is our number four the Budweiser sports forum. Phil Jackman, formerly of the evening sun, kind enough to hang out with us here for a little while longer. We’ll see how it goes. Let’s go get some let’s go get some wnst traffic here. Figure out what’s going on. 507, wnst traffic brought to you by dead Freddy’s watch Terps basketball, the monster screens get $1 domestic drafts dollar Terps shooters during the Maryland games dropped by 7209 Harford road just inside the beltway. That’s almost Jack Jackman, Bill over there. Is it not Phil? 7200 Harford Road, south today, right?

Phil Jackman  2:06:15

Not anymore.

Nestor Aparicio  2:06:16

We used to be old school. Hamilton.

Phil Jackman  2:06:20

Hamilton east.

Nestor Aparicio  2:06:22

All right inside the beltway. You check out the new location. Also up in Bel Air behind the Harford Mall. Meredith joins us with wnst traffic. Good Mayor. Thank you

2:06:30

very much. And this report is a service of venture food markets, the new low price leader. We have an accident leaving the shoulder blocks on the inner loop at bark ice Avenue. Also when warnings are affecting high centered vehicles. So definitely drive slow on those main bridge spans. You’re going to find a few accidents out there. Liberty heights and North Rogers Avenue, St Paul Street at East Pleasant Street. Also fallen trees hunt Ridge at triadel Road towards Ellicott City, and fallen trees West Benfield road at seven crest. Drive so pretty windy out there. You could see some crazy objects on those roadways. Compare and save every day at Metro Hall, boneless center cup, four coins. 168, a pound and boneless chicken breast sold in a four pound bag. 125, a pound. No card needed only at Metro food markets. I’m Meredith marks with nasty traffic on Sports Talk. 1570 wnst.

Nestor Aparicio  2:07:11

Thank you very much. All right, Phil’s in studio, we’re hanging out, and I still feel bad. Miles didn’t call back. So miles, if you’re out there calling 4115 seven to take a few phone calls and and rap a little bit. You’re telling me a story during a break. And I made you stop because, I mean, one of the things I do when I bring in a couple times years talk some stories, but you haven’t necessarily taken to the Ravens in the way. Maybe a lot of people your age say, well, it’s for the younger generation or whatever. When you arrived here the Colts in the mid 60s, I’m led to believe were everything, and they were the thing, and then the Orioles became another thing, but never really rivaled what the Colts were. And you came on and talked about McNally when he passed, but I never thought to call you and talk about Unitas, because you weren’t here in 58 and I guess few of those who were here in 58 are still here with us, but you were here in 84 when they left. My man, Ray over here, is 28 years of age. Full blown man got kids of his own. He doesn’t really remember the day the Colts left and or remember the Colts as more than something their father told them about. I remember it. I mean, I was at the Colts Raiders game in the 70s, and Bradshaw with the Steelers and kroner into the upper deck. I was at all of those games. I was a young kid, but I was there, and I have my own memories of Linhart kicking the ball in the fog in the mid 70s. I don’t remember the 50s and 60s colts, but I remember 1984 and I remember the Mayflower vans and all that stuff. And you had to sort in your own mind, how

Phil Jackman  2:08:41

about hunting in the floor? No, I

Nestor Aparicio  2:08:42

don’t remember all that. But no, no, you don’t remember five touchdowns, but the Colts in 84 when they left. I mean, you were a full fledged columnist at that point, and probably one of the premier columnist in the city at that point. Not some Johnny Come Lately, just coming off the boat. Some thoughts for you on the Colts leaving. I think that’s something we don’t talk about.

Phil Jackman  2:09:01

Some thoughts from you know what happened that night was the Celtics were playing down the capital center. That’s the Celtics. So whenever burden, no, no, no, 84 was he was sure they play in the championship. 8586

Nestor Aparicio  2:09:16

87 they’re sure. Okay, bird, it got there at 80

Phil Jackman  2:09:20

he must have thrown a three pointer in at the buzzer to win the thing. He always did that. Okay, I think having to check he had three

Nestor Aparicio  2:09:27

pointers in 84 Phil didn’t, I don’t know, we’re dangerous.

Phil Jackman  2:09:31

Always played three pointer. I thought you think, yeah, have to look that one up. Okay. Anyway, we’re down there, myself and cowherd and after the game is over, you know, they used to just about drink, you know, all the beer in the in the cool they wanted you to, because they didn’t want to come out and take it out and refreeze it or something or other. So we had a couple of beers, a couple of us, and we. Came back to the office and we’re sitting there, not ready to go home, and somebody had the scanner on police or something rather, and they go walking by and they say, hey, the Mayflower is up at up on the Colts complex. So me and cowherd look at each other and immediately jump in the car and go out there. And it’s sort of like a party going on. You know, Curtis Thomas was there, and I remember, was snowing, yeah, sort of a cold and Bria and breezy night. And, you know, now we can’t get in, so we do the bit about, well, let’s, let’s tunnel under the fence. And, you know, there’s nobody there except guys loading the Mayflower. I mean, the halfbacks, when in there, taking their shoes out or anything like that. And it’s, it’s about, it had to be midnight, or even a little bit later, you know, under, under cover of darkness, they were sneaking out of the whole thing. And I remember thinking the media took it very lightly, because if this wasn’t predictable, if we didn’t know this. The only guy that was completely in the dark about all this was Schaefer, you know. And I remember,

Nestor Aparicio  2:11:07

well, it had never been done like that before, in the middle of the night in a major Well,

Phil Jackman  2:11:11

you know, Schaefer shafa thought that this guy was a very honorable man. And then everybody think

Nestor Aparicio  2:11:15

there was gonna be a press release or so. I mean, that that’s the way it was gonna happen, not

Phil Jackman  2:11:19

really. And the biggest kick I got out of that whole thing, after even this happened, even before they left, he went out in and was selling the 10, and was, you know, showing the team out in Phoenix, I think he was and, okay, call it. He comes. He comes and flies into BWI and they and they gas up to go to Chicago. And I said, Wait a minute, I think that’s a way where you can go from Phoenix to Chicago without coming to Baltimore. But anyway, they have an impromptu press conference down, down the airport, and channel 13, it’s live on there, and that’s

Nestor Aparicio  2:11:59

Gordon beard when he say you’re a bad man. I’m not gonna answer your questions. Yeah.

Phil Jackman  2:12:03

Were you a part of that? Yeah, sure. Everybody was down. See, that’s legendary handle. And what I got a kick out of his. Guys were coming up to me for weeks after that, saying, you know, all that stuff you were writing about this. I didn’t know this guy was loaded half the time. And I said, when a guy is loaded half the time, you don’t know what acting normally. We had a radio show at that time, and Bob I Beck used to call him and get him in in a semi inebriated state by any time after 10am apparently, right. Well, you know you what you figured with him. Bob worked from early in the morning till about 1130 quarter or 12 in any break for lunch, and if he came back from lunch, it was to get his car to go home. He went to bed very early. But we figured out after a while what you have to do with their say to get through to him is we always used to say, call up and say, This is the station manager at wcbm, which was on the air with them, had him on the air at the time, and you’d be a blinking light, and it pushed the button. And he was a polite man, so he wouldn’t hang up on you. You could always get to him, and in you get him, you know. You can imagine how he used to pronounce a his name, you know, and things like that. There was stuff we got. We get tapes of him that ISIS Bob. We can’t put that on the air. Why not? It’s him, you know, and all that other business. But anyway, the thing is, guys on the air created, why wouldn’t they put him on Well, he was doing that on his own. You mean, the night he got,

2:13:38

oh yeah, he

Phil Jackman  2:13:38

went for 35 minutes or so. And the Harry Shriver, well, he called in, but, I mean, the engineer wasn’t going to take him off. And I was that was pretty brutal stuff going down to a Maryland game that night. We’ll listen to this, and it says, Oh, Charlie, you’ve done it now, dude. All

Nestor Aparicio  2:13:56

right, back to her saying,

Phil Jackman  2:14:00

playing down the Orange Bowl. This is a week that went down early Saturday because Penn State was playing Miami, and somebody was number one, and they got beat by the other team. I think Penn State was number one. Miami might have a vice versa, anyway, so we’re there, and they used to play as play be out on Key Biscayne, the semester Beach Hotel, or something. But anyway, a colt game, and Vince Bagley has has Bob on at halftime, and he’s talking about and the draft. It must have been late in the season, somehow the draft come up. And that particular year they had the second and the fourth choice. And, you know, instead of McMahon, they went for shalista. And instead of, I forget the second guy, there was a great linebacker, they went for another anyway, I’m outside the booth, and chuck, chuck Thompson has come out to go get a coffee, and he says, this should be pretty good, because Vince is in there, struggling. So. Struggling to try to get something out of out of Bob. And he keeps on talking about, oh, they took Johnny cooks. It to Johnny cooks, and they put he was an art schleister at four, right? Well, the two guys that were supposed to take, or should have taken, is Jim McMahon as the quarterback and a linebacker from Southern Cal who ended up in Cleveland, great pass Russian cousin. Oh

Nestor Aparicio  2:15:23

no, no,

Phil Jackman  2:15:24

he ended up with a giant, I think. But anyway, they took giants. No, yeah, yeah. Oh, thanks. Okay, all right, all right. Now they took cooks. It was a great middle age from Mississippi State, right? Yes, tackles, everybody on Earth, well, they’re going to make him an outside linebacker. And yes, the people who run the show, why would you take it’s like taking, they take a running back and immediately make him into something else. And, you know, pros are always like that, like, like they know something we don’t know. I remember one time judge Young took a tackle from Doug, from Oregon, I think was Tom drugas, and he goes on and on about quick feet and all this other business, and he never missed a block. And, you know, Oregon was one and eight that year, or something rather. And I said to judge, Judge, if he is so good, how come he wasn’t a God? And he says to me, what do you mean? I says, If a tackle is really good, they move him to God. All the best linemen in college football, the blockers, the guys who pull out, they’re gods. They’re not tackles, tackles, the fat guys, they might be okay, but you don’t really expect much from them. They don’t lead plays that the And now, for about three years we had, we had a big to do about that. He’s, oh, you’re going to tell me who played football. You know, this is just accepted stuff. Maybe it’s not true.

Nestor Aparicio  2:16:43

Well, that was the year 82 they had gone two and 14 under McCormick the year before, and 82 turned out to be the strike year. But that was the year Kush took over, and they went from two and 14 to Oh, eight and one.

Phil Jackman  2:16:53

All right, cushion, one of Kush things I’ve never seen a guy so proud. He comes walking into the room. Thanks, by the way, one Carl banks, Chip banks are he comes walking into the room and he says, Boy, we got one for you. And everybody says, Ron stock. You know, we know he was going to take that Panda.

Nestor Aparicio  2:17:10

They took Ron Stark in the second round with the 34th pick.

Phil Jackman  2:17:13

Yeah, who was good pick? I mean, it wasn’t Ray Guy. They

Nestor Aparicio  2:17:17

got that pick for Burt Jones, by the way. That’s it. That was LA’s pick. They got. They got a 34 overall for Burt Jones. Oh, they got the first then a second. They got schir too. That’s how they got the number four.

Phil Jackman  2:17:28

But the best story, and schleister I ever had, I ever give me

Nestor Aparicio  2:17:33

a Schleicher story? And 19 7980 was the first year they did three pointers. So I got that, and we’re gonna take Bob over Medfield a minute. But give me a schlestra story, by the way, it was a great schliester story today in the USA Today, you may read you because we were talking about these kids at Maryland yesterday, the kid getting paid the money, and all the problems they had there today, the USA Today runs an absolute gem of a story, and it is basically just cumulative stories of recruiting things that happened behind the scenes to, uh, to bring kids into the fold. And they it was a funny story about schleister because, and I can give you your story, then I’ll read this. Go ahead. Well,

Phil Jackman  2:18:13

going out to practice there at Goucher at the time, and the guys they drafted were schlees. There’s number two in the whole draft. And then about the seventh round, they took Mike Pagel. And I know that, you know, you go out every day and you notice something that paygal took all the snaps in the morning session. And then in the afternoon, when more people showed up and a lot of people,

Nestor Aparicio  2:18:32

pay was in a fourth round pick. Okay,

Phil Jackman  2:18:36

you know, shalisa was doing taking the morning, and pay was taken the afternoon, and I cornered Bruce Laird, and I said, What’s that all about? He says, Come out early tomorrow and watch arch Leister. And I did. And I said, Boy, he fumbles a lot. He says, you know why his hands are smaller than yours? You know he used to come back and the ball just flip out of it. He had amazingly small hands. He was a heck of a quarterback at Ohio State, but he used to have to balance the thing on his hand and throw the ball, you know? He almost, yeah, he got, like a little kid has to do it, you know, he can’t muscle, push the muscle thing, but she’s the, you know, he goes to Ohio State, and to get him there, I can’t imagine Willie Hayes giving up the three clouds and what’s this? But they became a passing team. Actually was a good runner and passed just enough or completed just enough of the things. But that’s, that’s what it was. He would go back, he’d go to throw the ball and then drop on the ground, and everything about the guy was wrong on number one. You know,

Nestor Aparicio  2:19:40

I got a good Schleicher story was in the paper. Now I’m gonna read to you 521, wnst traffic time. This one brought to you by the Baltimore Orioles spring training starts in less than two weeks. I’ll be live in Fort Lauderdale next Friday. Owes regular season ticket plans available starting as low as $149 call the Orioles 685, nine. 800 lock into a great seat location, 1329, 81 game plans. You lock in now they give you an option to buy some opening day tickets as well. 685, 9800, tell them that wnst sent you shake Matt dryers tree, and here’s Meredith. Wst traffic, good Mayor. Thank you very

2:20:14

much. And the support is a service of Metro food markets, the new low price leader. We have an accident the shoulder block from the interlock Park, heights Avenue, watch out for wind warnings posted in area. Bridges also delays on the interlock between Charles Street and perring Parkway. You’re also going to find no problems at your tunnels, but watch out. We do have a water main break west on Northern Parkway, between Falls Road and Rowland Avenue. It is not shut down, but it is going to be very busy in that area. So try to wait it out. If you can. Also going to find your quote at West damper church. Road blocked because of fallen power cable. The parents safe every day at Metro homeless center, cup work lines. 168, a pound and boneless chicken breast sold a four pound bag. 125, a pound, no car needed only at Metro food market. I’m Eric marks with nasty traffic on Sports Talk. 1570 wnsp, thanks,

Nestor Aparicio  2:20:56

Mayor. All right, get back out to the phone lines. Your one quick story to tell today’s paper USA Today, and Phil yesterday, the whole Maryland thing came down with a $300 greasing of the kid from Gilman and all that stuff. And I was trying to think maybe I could call some ravens coaches to tell me some tales of how recruiting really works. Because unless you’ve been a coach or unless you’ve been a player, I don’t think you have any idea of what this is all about. When these coaches come and blow smoke up your backside, about coming to university, page 10 c today, USA, today, coaches have plenty of tales to tell. Those are stories about Ray golf and Phil Fulmer and Pete Carroll and all stuff. Western Kentucky coach Jack Harbaugh was a longtime assistant to Bo sham Beckler, Michigan. He recalled the time he and Bo went to quarterback art schliesters house. This is a Michigan coach. We started talking, and finally, art’s dad said, Oh, Woody Hayes was in here yesterday and promised that art would be the starting quarterback next year at Ohio State. And Bo says, Hold on a second. If I’m not mistaken, Rod Gerald was only a junior, and he’s going to be the starting quarterback. And the father said, Woody said, no, no, no, he was going to move my my boy, to quarterback, and Gerald the receiver, and art was going to be the starting quarterback. And woody said it was no longer going to be three yards in a cloud of dust that Woody was going to open up his offense, and he was going to throw 25 to 30 times with art as a quarterback. Then the father tells us how art loves basketball. And woody said, for the first time in his career, he’s going to let art play basketball at Ohio State. So finally, Beau took his fist, slammed it on the coffee table, and he said, Let me tell you something. When we start our season next year, a guy named Rick leach is going to be our starting quarterback. Now, if you’re going to buy into this stuff that the old man up the road is giving you in Columbus, then you send your boy to Ohio State. Could we have our coats please? We get outside, we’re walking along, and he kind of nudged me and said, What do you think of that show? And I said, I don’t think we’re going to be coming back to art schleuser’s house anymore. And he said, No, we’re not going to be coming back, and he’s going to Ohio State. And the interesting thing about it all, schlester went to Ohio State. He started the first game, Gerald moved the wide receiver art threw the ball 25 or 30 times a game, and he did play basketball. So everything that Woody promised he did do. And last, final story, another solution. Says another time they were making a home visit Jack Harbaugh and Bo schambeckler and Woody Hayes that left Ohio State, and the subject turned to a proposed movie about woody Hayes’s life is after he slugged the kid down in the bowl game. Somebody wonder whether, who would play Woody Hayes? And the consensus is, what was that it should be George C Scott and Harbaugh recalls, somebody says, well, Bo, you’d have to be in the movie too. You’re the Michigan coach. So who would play you? So the grandmother, the recruit sitting in the corner, hadn’t said a word during this visit. All of a sudden, out of blue, she says, Well, Bo, the only guy I could see playing you would be Robert Redford. And Beau thought for a minute, looked up and said, You know what? I think that would be a good choice. 526, to Bob in Medfield. For Phil Jackman, Bob, welcome in.

2:24:00

You listen when I called up, I was going to ask Phil a whole bunch of sports writing questions, but since you started talking about the Colts, you know, you brought up art schliester, and I remember we had arch Leister and we had Mark Herman. And these were two guys, believe me, I have no football background outside of being a colts fan, okay. But these guys, they couldn’t play. One guy couldn’t take a hit because he was, he was, he was like a basketball players, rail thin. The other guy, you know, for all the criticism our schlietz, because he’s the worst quarterback ever seen, he was a tough guy. He could take a hit. I mean, he got hit, and he’d get up, but he could,

Nestor Aparicio  2:24:38

I heard he would hit on 17, on 18, on 19. I heard he hit on all those numbers.

2:24:44

Well, anyways, I’m at a Cole Packer game. And of course, this is after the glory days. I think it was the strike year of 82 and Randy McMillan, I believe, was on the team and the or whomever, he got behind the defensive back, and he was open and all. It could not hit him. And I’m just sitting there when I when I wasn’t watching soleister, they have Mark Herman play, and I remember thinking, I remember a handful of years ago I watched a guy named Burt Jones. He could throw the ball. I mean, when Burt Jones played, I never seen a guy throw the ball as good as Burt Jones. I know the guy that played for Washington, now, Doug Williams and Elway later, these guys had arms similar to him. It’s not better, you know, too. But I mean, I saw Jones in before a Monday night game against yours Houston Oilers, and he threw a pass to dowdy before the game, and it had to be on a line. It had to be 5060, yards, just on a line. So as a long suffering Cole fan. I just, I was just, I had my head in my hands watching Herman and schleister and these were, this was Bob Earth, say, because he lived out in the Midwest, even when he owned the team, and he saw these guys lighting it up in the Big 10, we had to have these guys

Nestor Aparicio  2:25:56

to light up Northwestern, probably one.

2:26:01

But anyways, how about when, when Earth say, called the plays down, when Mike McCormick was coaching the team, and we had Jones, and of course, Jones was, was probably damaged goods at the time, and we had Greg Landry, and they were rotating the quarterbacks, and Earth Day was calling the plays from the press box. I mean, I really thought I had died and gone to football hell that day.

Phil Jackman  2:26:24

You know, that reminds me of Sunday, Bloody Sunday up in Philadelphia. Joe Thomas is running the thing, and he doesn’t know how, really, I mean, he can run a franchise, but he was going to get the coaching job now because I described it this way that ursay went down to get rid of schnallenberger as the coach, and he took the Express elevator, and Joe Thomas took the the local, the local. So by by the time he’s walking into the locker room, the first player on the right hand side says the coach just got fired, and Joe stats, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? You know, he’s sort of a nervous type guy. And ursay passes him as he’s going out of the room, and he says, who’s going to coach, Bob, who’s going to coach? And he says, you are. So this is Sunday afternoon up in Philadelphia. So he comes walking in to the offices. And the Monday, he says, what do we do? And they said, well, the guys come in for what says, but they didn’t practice on Monday. He comes out Tuesday, Tuesday. And he said, slippers, and hug slippers. This

Nestor Aparicio  2:27:33

would be a September 29 1974 and

Phil Jackman  2:27:35

he has no idea how you know, you break up. This, this, the linemen go here they, you know, it’s they do this for 20 minutes of whistle blows, and they do this, and they do this, and they do this. He had no idea. So after about three days of that, I’m talking to Lydell Mitchell and Mitchell, and by

Nestor Aparicio  2:27:52

the way, the Orioles are going through the playoffs that week too. I mean, first week of October, 1974 the Orioles are playing the the A’s in the playoffs.

Phil Jackman  2:27:59

A million or more. Did I draw a million that? Yeah, I don’t know anyway. Is he’s walking, I’m talking to Lydell Mitchell, and he you know, Penn State, glorious career, good coaches and all that. And he says, Joe Thomas is the best coach I’ve ever had. And I said, You got to be kidding me. He says, no, no, we’re out of here 45 minutes every day. You know poor Joe, you know that just that just speeded up, that his heart wasn’t going to wasn’t going to last too long. Bob,

Nestor Aparicio  2:28:27

what did you really call about? Well,

2:28:29

I want to ask Phil about some sports writing stuff. Now, when Ted Williams died last last year, I believe will McDonald, who also died a couple weeks ago, I believe he said something negative about Ted, in a sense that he said the guy was, I’ll try to do the New England accent. I think he called him a jerk and and he said, but he’s a great ball player. And I remember reading the Ted Williams story in Sports Illustrated. This has been a years ago when he was right before he became the Washington manager. And after reading that, and I know it’s Ted, that’s his side of the story, but the Boston writers, I mean, you talk about a bunch of, I don’t know how to describe them, but they were after this guy because he didn’t conform. He didn’t he wasn’t going to take criticism from reporters or fans. And they were, and I think they were jealous of a big, handsome guy who was was a fabulous ball player, and they just ripped him every chance they got. And then I remember reading Phil, and I, you know, Phil was a great writer, but I remember in the sun papers, all the guys were, they were Homers. And I like that, you know, because I’m a Homer, too. And when I’m reading Phil, I’m going, Jesus, this guy’s he’s critical. But then, after reading the Ted Williams thing, I said, Oh, I see where he catches from. I guess up there. It’s like an adverse, adversarial thing. Am I right about that? Phil Well, Ted,

Phil Jackman  2:29:51

Ted, when he was in Boston, was a pretty tough to get along with. Prickly would be. And the thing about it was, it was a.