Longtime Sacramento Bee sports editor Tom Couzens comes home to Baltimore to talk Orioles and newspaper history as his baseball team has finally made it to him after leaving Ocean City and Maryland four decades ago as a one-time colleague of Nestor’s at The News American and Sportsf1rst.
Nestor Aparicio, host of WNST AM 1570, discusses the history of Baltimore sports and his personal connections with longtime sports editor Tom Couzens, who now lives in Sacramento. They reminisce about their time at the Baltimore News American and Sports First, a short-lived tabloid newspaper. Couzens shares his journey from Baltimore to Sacramento, where he worked at the Sacramento Bee for many years. They also discuss the current state of Major League Baseball, with the Oakland A’s playing in Sacramento due to stadium issues. Couzens expresses his excitement about the upcoming Orioles series in Sacramento.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, Sacramento Bee, Baltimore sports, newspaper history, Tom Cousins, Jim Henneman, sports first, Ocean City, major league baseball, real estate, sports editing, Baltimore Sun, sports journalism, baseball stadium, sports media.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Tom Couzens
8
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
This meeting is being recorded. Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 task of Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. We are positively into summertime in last place, or what we call Baltimore baseball. Here, over the course of my 35 year career, we’re going to be out doing the Maryland crab cake tour, because they taste good. It tastes better than last place. Back to the Future scratch offs from the Maryland lottery will be available. We’re going to be green mount station in Hampstead, where they have a delightful crab cake. It is the Angelina style recipe that I loved and grew up with so much. I don’t get the Hempstead often, but I’m looking forward to getting up there. I got great, great guests. My buddy Howard shares coming out. We’re going to learn about Carroll County Youth, my friend melody barons, gonna come out, and we’re gonna talk about LinkedIn local as well as the racetrack and gambling and OTB and all that good stuff. Also next Friday at fade, Lee’s at Lexington market, and we’re gonna be down there with Luke, amongst others, in the halos of Anaheim, of La of Southern California, of formerly of Shohei Otani angels will be in town. This guy here is one of my oldest Kimo sabes. I don’t know what’s going to come out of his mouth. I have no idea. We have only really connected once or twice in 41 years. I left the the Baltimore news American to go to the sun on January 6, 1986 so that’s now like 39 years ago. The death of Jim Henneman last week brought back so many sports writers, so many people. I’ve talked about it, written about it. You’ve heard me and socially opined in the Louis Aparicio picture, and Henneman is the Bat Boy in 1963 Tom Cousins is about to join me, and I’m going to give the whole backstory here as best I can and cause I’ll let you jump in here. Tom Cousins was an editor at sports first and the Baltimore news American on South Street in Lombard when I was 15 years old. And I walked into the newsroom in January of 1984 41 years ago, I was a 15 year old kid, a guy named Tom Robinson, we called him Robbie, who went on to be the sports editor in Binghamton, and then the Scranton newspaper, still my friend, um, took me and put me on the hockey beat with Gene ubriacco In February of 1984 is 15 years old. So Tom Cousins was among uh, several people that we worked in the what was the commissary, which is sort of like a dining area, an old dining, old cafeteria that they turned into the sports department to create a tabloid newspaper Hearst called sports first. It was America’s first daily paper. And they did this under the guys. We had the Colts. We had the the Orioles. The Orioles were about to win the World Series. The Colts were about to leave, and you know, only God and Bob Ursula knew that, and William Hudnut and the paper failed after a year. But in that year of 1983 and 84 and the paper failed and folded on the day of my son’s birth, September 22 1984 I did the math on this changed my life and my career. On that day, Tom Cousins was I don’t want to have a boss, a big brother, an editor, him, Ron, when Stan, Rappaport Bob Paston, just a whole bunch of people. Rappaport Bob Nestor, my God. How can I forget him and Tom went on to work in Sacramento and make a life in Sacramento. Because I never knew you were from Ocean City, Maryland. I never knew what an Oriole, bleeding heart you were. I lost track of you for 30 years out in Sacramento. I knew you worked in Sacramento at the bee, but then Facebook happened. And I guess Facebook gives and it takes and it brought, it’s like The Godfather brought you back to me, and you’re out in Sacramento, and the Orioles are coming out there this week, and you’re wearing all your Orioles swag. I hope I did you justice. You are the one time, long time sports editor of the Sacramento Bee. You made a whole life with Scott LaBar, who gave me my first Getty Lee interview and my first Aerosmith interview, and all my first Paul Stanley interview in 1984 when I was a kid. You knew me when I was was a puppy, dude. So you can tell any story you want about me. I love you. It’s good to have you on and the oils are played at Sacramento. What the hell, man,
Tom Couzens 04:11
yeah, we have major league baseball in Sacramento.
Nestor Aparicio 04:15
Have you been
Tom Couzens 04:17
8I’m waiting for the Orioles.
Nestor Aparicio 04:18
Oh, so you haven’t been to the ball. You’ve been to that ballpark. I’ve been to the ballpark. It’s
Tom Couzens 04:23
a triple a ballpark. It’s hosted for 25 years. Our triple a team that’s was affiliated for many years with the A’s, and that was when they their peak. And now they’re affiliated with the giants, and ironically, now the A’s are playing there with a Giants triple A affiliate alternating days, basically, there’s baseball every day in Sacramento this summer. I
Nestor Aparicio 04:47
had never been to Sacramento in my life, and I knew I needed to get there. And you know, when I got there, the first thing I did was have coffee with you. I came into the newsroom. Was teary eyed for me, I saw Scott for the first time in 40 years. And you know. Like it clearly meant a lot to me to drive in to visit with you. I did this about a year and a half ago. I did it the week the Ravens were in the championship game and the 40 Niners were hosting a championship game that week, a year ago, a year and a half ago, and I hadn’t seen you in 40 years. I don’t know what you make of my radio like, how whatever I’ve done here has gotten to you all these years later, and Scott as well. Facebook’s been two decades of doing this, but like Sacramento, explain it to me a little bit because I drove in looks a little bit like Harrisburg. It’s a little bit of like a small city for something that you’ve heard of, where Arnold Schwarzenegger lived, and Gavin Newsom runs the state, like all that stuff. But I pulled in, you were a heartbeat of a hearse newspaper that kind of went out of business, kind of like it’s so small now, like the whole business shrunk, right? And you’re a victim of all of that, of all my editor buddies and all of that. But Sacramento, to me, why didn’t they steal the A’s just a year? I mean, like it’s been sitting there, and they have the NBA franchise that I guess never has won anything. But you love the kings and you like, I always see you like, it’s a, it’s a civic entity, but like, why didn’t they steal the A’s? I just don’t, I don’t understand the Oakland A’s being this lame duck for this long and Sacramento taking him in as like a stepchild for a week or two. You know, well,
8Tom Couzens 06:20
going back way back in the 70s, even before I arrived in Sacramento, 1984 a gentleman named Greg lukenville. Now, you may know that name. You may not. He’s the one that brought the kings from Kansas City to Sacramento. Put him in a makeshift 10,000 seat warehouse for a couple years. He had a vision for a major league baseball in the 70s, in the suburbs, what was really the country back then, of Sacramento, it just never came to fruition. There was a property designated right off highway 50. You know, highway 50, same highway anyway, didn’t work out. He did eventually build a concrete hole in the ground that was going to be for a baseball team next to the previous arena that the Kings played in arco.
Nestor Aparicio 07:08
We called it now California, you’re never getting any money from the state, though, right? Like, no, no.
Tom Couzens 07:13
And once that happened and he couldn’t get him, yeah, they just stayed in Oakland all these years as a as that stadium fell apart, I’m
Nestor Aparicio 07:21
8thinking anything got publicly funded in California, like, I think a Petco Park, and what a show that was, and it wind up costing the chargers and and then the 40 Niners thing in Santa Clara that took forever and ever. Mean, I remember going to Candlestick Park, even after the earthquakes, you know, and seeing the cracks in the foundations of like the I’ve been the upper deck. You could see through the upper deck. It’s insane. And it finally got done. And then Oakland didn’t want to play there, and and Al Davis is nuts. And, I mean, in the end, everybody’s going to Vegas and all of our lives, there was pressure to not even put the the line spread, you know, on the agate page, in my scoreboard page in the 80s and 90s, because of gambling, and they, they’ve made the A’s this wayward home in Sacramento. They’re there and you, and you love baseball, and you haven’t even
Tom Couzens 08:09
been not yet. But, uh, well, it was very expensive, so I bought the three game series this weekend, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. We’re only 13 miles out of downtown from the stadium, but we’re going to stay in town for the weekend and go through you’re
Nestor Aparicio 08:24
gonna walk around all weekend, and you’re gonna launder up that oriole ornithologically Correct, 1989 at 54 hat too, my jersey. So give me life in Sacramento. You moved out there 40 years ago. You’re a sports nut. You’re you’re an Oriole nut. You’re from Ocean City, Maryland. You’re all you wanted to do like me was be Oscar Madison, right? All you wanted to do was be a sports writer at one point,
Tom Couzens 08:44
right? Yeah, Nestor, let me correct you there. I was born at St Anne’s Hospital in Catonsville. Oh, so I was born in Baltimore, okay? And in the late 60s, people recall, maybe the people of my age, there was this great flight out to the suburbs. We lived in the city. We lived by Lincoln Park in 1968 great flight out to the suburbs. We went to Ocean City, Maryland. I was third grade, and I spent the next 1012, years there. There’s
8Nestor Aparicio 09:16
no nothing in Ocean City in 1970 Right? Like in the in the like in Yes.
Tom Couzens 09:23
1968 no condos, no high rise condos. You
Nestor Aparicio 09:26
saw every carousel. You saw everything north of 59th Street go up basically, right?
Tom Couzens 09:31
8Yeah. We lived at 47th Street oceanfront. My dad was an architect. He helped design this townhouse development. So we got the winter ocean front off season. Spring came, they said, Sorry, you got to go
Nestor Aparicio 09:47
ocean pines over the bridge with your ass.
Tom Couzens 09:52
My I was born in Baltimore, and to let your people know that you. Jim Henneman is my mom’s cousin.
Nestor Aparicio 10:03
Oh, you’re even family with Henneman. How about that? Yeah,
8Tom Couzens 10:06
I never really knew him well, because by the time I was doing newspaper work, I was in California, how
Nestor Aparicio 10:12
long did you work at the news? American in sports first, and now, what was your pathway to that? Because I’ve never asked, you know, you know where SIG comes on all the time. So for anybody out there listening, it’s part of my mafia after 35 years of doing the radio sports, first was this tabloid newspaper. It was an offshoot of the news American. Was produced by the same people, John Stedman, Bernie Michels, Jeff Gordon, just go down the line. Barry Levine, I can go through these names. Dick Gerardi comes on all the time. Was a part of that. These are foundational people in my life, we recently lost a man named rich Petro who lived in Dundalk. His daughter and sons are all friends of mine forever. And we used to go the racetrack with Pete and just a legendary cast of humans. I mean, John Hawkins went on to be a legendary golf writer. So all of these cast of characters, oh, there you mean we go down the list, like Tim kirkian told me at hennemans funeral that he worked at the news American for two months in 1981 or 82 and then went down to Dallas and came back to the sun here that he said he met lefty drizzle, and he was supposed to be on the Terps beat, but he didn’t stay at the paper long enough. He got recruited to Dallas by Dave Smith, so, I mean, Dan Shaughnessy worked in Baltimore. Clark judge me, I’m just going through all of these. Peter pastorelli, yeah.
Tom Couzens 11:29
Gito stelino, of
Nestor Aparicio 11:30
8course. So, so you worked where before the newspaper, because I don’t know anything of this about you, because all of you were like adults to me, and you can speak to my audience of what a 15 year old kid look what a 15 year old version of me walking in that newsroom. You remember me as a kid because I look like I was 11, right? I mean, I look like child labor. You were
Tom Couzens 11:53
pretty young. So let me tell you how that happened. In I found myself I graduated from University of Maryland in 1982 and somewhere along the way, I have a Cal Ripken story from the University of Maryland. But let me tell you the story how I got to sports first. And we called it sports first, because sports came first in the publication. Then there was the weather in the or the weather was in the back, and then there was business and news. But we but sports what came first? So I was working at the montgomery Sentinel in 1984 fresh out, pretty fresh out. Excuse me, 83 and we did our paste up. People don’t know what that means. We pasted up the galleys of the text
Nestor Aparicio 12:36
wax on the back. It was hot wax. Yes, the same way we did the Dundalk eagle and the eye when I was a kid in Dundalk, yes, the place where we did the paste
Tom Couzens 12:45
up in the printing for the Montgomery Sentinel newspaper. Montgomery Sentinel, by the way, was where Bob Woodward got his start before he went to the Washington Post. Anyway, we I was up at the shop where they were doing the pay stub, supervising the sports pages, and the person pays it up said, Hey, we’ve had some people in here, all secretive. They’re doing us starting a new sports paper in Baltimore. And here’s the guy’s name. So I call up Bob Paston at the Baltimore news American. He says, I don’t know what you’re talking about. There’s nothing going on that’s
8Nestor Aparicio 13:19
past. Voice, me that’s past and being a really, you know,
Tom Couzens 13:24
they said nothing going on. I sent him a packet of information. Anyway,
Nestor Aparicio 13:28
that’s the kind of reporter Paston, once somebody take no for an answer. 11
Tom Couzens 13:34
8months later, I get a call. I was so ready. I had accepted a job at Fort Myers, Florida, to go down there in August of 83 to help them put out their huge, giant football Preview section. I get a call from Bob passing the news. American said, Hey, you want to you want to come work for me in Baltimore? I was 23 I didn’t want to leave Baltimore. I said, Hell yeah. So I went and joined the staff at the sports first.
Nestor Aparicio 14:04
Well, that was three days, September of 83 it launched. September 15 of 83 it died. You know, September, September 20 of 84 and in that time, the Orioles won the World Series, the Redskins won the Super Bowl, and the Ravens left Baltimore in that period, and Len, Len bias was on the team, but then not dead. He didn’t die to 86 but like that one year snapshot, because last year was the 40th anniversary, and I invited you on, and I invited everybody. We did a whole, like, hour and 15 minutes about the legend of that newspaper. And I even brought out tear sheets and all that kind of stuff and and layouts. But you know, I met you and met so many people, and when that thing imploded on the day of my son’s birth, September 22 1984 I wound up getting staffed onto the news American as a 16 year old, a senior in high school. But all of you lost your jobs, and. And there was a whole Sacramento contingent. So I want you to tell the story of Mari mock and and Scott. LaBar. Scott was the guy, if anybody ever has seen my documentary, any of the Rock and Roll stuff. Scott was the guy I was out in the newsroom, and he said, Hey, kid, a guy named Steven Tyler from Aerosmith, is going to be calling. Will you? Can you put some questions together, do a story on Aerosmith? Yeah, Mr. Lebar, yes, I can. And then it was rush, and then it was Paul Stanley, and then it was, I can get Paul Stanley on the phone. What I was 15 years old, so, like, the newspaper thing was eye opening for me, cause, you know, but all of you by then were like, scrambling with your livelihood, trying to get a job, right? And in a shrinking even then Sacramento called, and all of you went
Tom Couzens 15:46
to Sacramento. I’ll give you that story for real quick, a Scott LaBarge story. So I don’t talk to him a whole lot. He’s still working, even though he’s like 70 now, he still worked at Sacramento Bee. I texted him, and I said, Scott, you want to go see the Orioles. He said, Only if Jim Palmer pitches.
Nestor Aparicio 16:05
Jim Palmer will be there, I don’t
8Tom Couzens 16:07
know, but I said they need him to pitch right now. They need Palmer right now pitching with that staff anyway. Well, I
Nestor Aparicio 16:15
hope you have a good time at the games this weekend outside, you know, let me tell
Tom Couzens 16:19
you how we all ended up in such a group of people end up in Sacramento. So I got laid off. 23 years old. I don’t give I don’t have a worry in the world. I tried to get on the sun. The Baltimore Sun said, No, we’re not hiring you. I put out a bunch of resumes. I got two job offers, Rochester, New York and Sacramento, California. Rochester would allow me to be within a 10 hour drive of home. But when I the day I interviewed, they had a story on the front page of the winter snow forecast. They were going to get 112 inches of snow that winter. And then I went interviewed with Sacramento, and they’re, you know, they’re talking about how your two hour drive to San Francisco, two hour drive to Lake Tahoe, we have two rivers running through town. We don’t get snow. You can drive to the snow. Plus we’re going to pay you $150 or more a week. That was a lot of money in 1984 dude.
Nestor Aparicio 17:11
8I remember those union books and scale and wage, and you know, when I was 17 at the sun and I knew what every newspaper paid, and I sent, you know, letters out to the Sacramento Bee sports. I have the rejection letters in a box. I I should have grabbed the Sacramento Bee rejection letter I had, yeah, but I got rejected by everybody.
Tom Couzens 17:31
Oh, well, I I sent out when I got out of college, I sent 100 resumes, and I heard from two people so, well, you got a gig. My first gig out of college was at the Maryland Coast press twice a week in Ocean City, Maryland. That was the only a job offer I got. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 17:49
I just hope, if I would have grown up to right at the Dundalk Eagle, my father would have been proud of me, you know what I mean, and I was doing that when I was 15. I’m in the newsroom with you guys. I’m doing stories, and then you guys just disappear to Sacramento. I always found that to be really romantic. When I was young like I, I sent out hundreds of resumes. I had job offers. I got a job offer at the anchorage newspaper to cover their hockey team in 1989 and I own that paper. I own. It was McClatchy paper. I I have, I mean, I have all of the rejection letters, all of the acceptance like I have everything I ever you know, Playboy Rolling Stone Time magazine. I tried to get a job everywhere. That was the scramble for everybody get landing in Sacramento and spending a life there as a kid from Ocean City and from Baltimore, and you loving the Orioles, and you know you love the Colts when you’re a kid as well? Like, give me the Sacramento thing, because that newspapers and sports really took you on a journey in life that put you in a different you do real estate now I see you out there having a good life, and the Orioles are in sacrament. It’s the most unlikely thing that the Orioles are coming to Sacramento this week. Right? For you, right? We’ve
Tom Couzens 18:59
been able to see them every year in Oakland for one series, and every other year in San Francisco for one series. But going to Oakland, San Francisco, that’s it. That’s a hall that’s almost like for you going to New York. I mean, not quite, but it can be three hours with traffic. It’s a whole day. It’s a big deal to go to the San Francisco to watch a game. I will be there August 31 to watch the Orioles. But back to Sacramento. I came in 84 and in the next three years, Ron Winnick from the sports department came, Wayne Davis from the news desk came. Mari mock from the news desk came, and Scott LaBarre came. So we had five, you know, news American employees at the Sacramento Bee newsroom, which probably had about 200 employees at the time, and five were from the same newspaper work
8Nestor Aparicio 19:47
and not uncommon, almost like in sports, where you bring lieutenants with you. Bob Paston went to St Louis at the Post Dispatch. He took Bernie Mick with him. He took jeff gordon with him, right? So like that. That was kind of. Of how it worked. I mean, in the industry, and even when Jack Gibbons came to the evening sun, he brought Philadelphia and Baltimore had a little bit on skates with editors too. Once you went to Sacramento, I never heard from any of you. It felt like you guys were living the good life bad California. That’s all I knew, man and Nestor,
Tom Couzens 20:17
you’re like this. I was planning to be there maybe three years. I got, I got job interviews and a couple job offers, but I it was, it was good to stay. And I got a famous now this before email, blah, blah, blah, I sent a letter to Vince story at the Boston Globe, and I met him to Bob Paston, and I said, Vince, I’m getting these offers. I’m getting these things. I’m pretty young at that time. I’m 2526 and he said, lot of guys will have layout pad, have layout pad, will travel layout pad. Was where we we sketched up the paper on our layout pad. And he said, and then the, you know, they go to three jobs in 10 years, and they’re doing the same exact thing. So is that what you want to do? So maybe it’s best to stay where you are. That was Vince Dorian
Nestor Aparicio 21:06
sent me a rejection letter in Boston with a dangle that something could be happening, and then he sent me a rejection letter from ESPN. Is a legend. I I’ve never met Vince Doria. I’ve never, I never met him. He I, but I definitely talked to him on the phone, and I definitely got rejected by him, right? So, yeah. So anyway, well, here we are, sports writer, man, life is a sports writer, right? So you were the editor of the Sacramento Bee. I am correct in saying that. Correct. Sports editor, sports editor. I did a lot of jobs here. How many years were you the sports editor of the Sacramento Bee. That’s a big
Tom Couzens 21:41
8thing. Well, I had, I was like number two for many years, and then I went and worked in news for a while. I was a Sunday editor for the whole paper. I was a news editor for the whole paper for a while, sports editor, probably five, five to eight years. Unfortunately, I wasn’t the sports editor at The heyday when then, when the Sacramento Bee had 40 employees just in the sports department. I think they have three. Now. That’s how things have changed.
Nestor Aparicio 22:09
Yeah, and I, you know the the shrink, and they’re not
Tom Couzens 22:12
covering the A’s. They don’t. They don’t have anybody covering the A’s. Is like a beat,
Nestor Aparicio 22:15
listen, I see you. Make political post. I see you, by the way, Tom Cousins is, is my guest, my friend, my one of my bosses, and I’m about to kiss your ass, if you don’t mind this at all times out in Sacramento. He worked at the Sacramento Bee for a long, long time, and he’s now in real estate. He’s from Baltimore via Ocean City, if you just got here, but he was one of the people. And here’s where I’m gonna I’m not gonna get weepy because I did with Jack Gibbons the other day at Jim Henneman funeral. But, you know, I walked into that funeral last week, and there’s Tim Kirchen, there’s Peter schmock, there’s just all these people that I were Bill steca, who was one of our colleagues, who’s American, just all of these people. I didn’t know that Henneman was the bullets. PR director, I knew Stedman had been the Colts. PR director, it’s amazing the swimming of sports and media and curiosity, and which takes the common that does not, and what’s capitalized and what’s not in the English language and facts, and who, what, where, why, when, and all of that, I cannot begin to tell you. And I know I told you this over coffee when we had coffee, and there’s delicious eggs in Sacramento last year. And I know I told Scott LaBarre this, but I want to say it publicly, I am so blessed that you guys all took me in and taught me right from wrong, and that I had, literally, I have had a bullshit detector attached to my soul that was installed by Bob Paston, by you, by John Hawkins, by Bernie Nicholas, by every tough love editor, NASCAR Molly, all of you. I was so fortunate, so fortunate. Uh, Stan Larry Harris, once I got up the street. Mike Marlowe, my God. Mike Marlowe was like father to me, mentor to me, and Jack Gibbons, all of these amazing people that help me know right from wrong to build whatever I’ve built here for better or worse, all these years, and anytime I get one of you, Oh, geez. On. Part of the reason I bring you on talk about Sacramento and and all that. But I just want to give you love and say like that has served me so well in my life that I asked questions and God answered and demanded truth.
8Tom Couzens 24:28
Yep,
Nestor Aparicio 24:29
that’s all you got for me, cuz,
Tom Couzens 24:32
thank you. Yes, you’ve done well. No,
Nestor Aparicio 24:34
8it ain’t even about that. It’s just about knowing right from wrong. And like being trained in a newsroom, I just think there was something about being in that environment where you
Tom Couzens 24:44
took a lot of us. Oh, I Well,
Nestor Aparicio 24:47
I was 15, you know? I mean, you know, I mean Ron wedding specifically tell him I didn’t invite him on a show. Yeah, okay, tell him that. So you watch the Orioles every night. Are you? You like you’re no soap opera. And. Now
Tom Couzens 25:00
I can’t watch it every night, because we don’t get, you know, whatever it is, they are broadcast on these days. But of course, I got the ESPN app you can, you know, you can follow along, and I know they’re having an awful year. So this weekend is going to feature two last place teams for the weekend series. I bought these tickets. Soon as they were announced, I said, I don’t care what it cost. You know, it’s not a bad seat in this house, because that only seats 12,000 or 14,000
8Nestor Aparicio 25:28
what you pay? Because
Tom Couzens 25:32
I paid $100 a ticket,
Nestor Aparicio 25:34
what could you say this weekend? I’ll get on C kick and find out. But right
Tom Couzens 25:38
8now, there’s, Well, right now they’re just, I got an email yesterday that they take tickets for this weekend are 20% discount from from the team,
Nestor Aparicio 25:47
and they’re probably sports columnist for me, they’re they’re there for a year or two. How many years are they there? Three years, three years. Okay, that’s
Tom Couzens 25:54
the deal. Now, who knows. But if that well, if that stadium will ever be built in Vegas. Viveca Rana, dv, who owns the Sacramento Kings, saved them, built the beautiful golden one center in downtown. He bought the Sacramento River cats and the baseball stadium out in West soccer they’re actually in West Sacramento, right over the over the river and with a great view of the iconic tower bridge in the background anyway. He bought that river cats team, and he’s the one that negotiated to bring the A’s here. He is one guy that would, would have the money, should the opportunity present itself to bring the A’s. Would
Nestor Aparicio 26:34
Sacramento support the A’s like that? Would they get 40,000 people enough that like and I don’t even know what baseball is anymore, they’re going to take half the upper deck. Upper Deck here. They’re going to spend $600 million making the stadium
8Tom Couzens 26:46
smaller. It seems like to me they will. Right now, they’re basically selling out every game, but it’s already 12,000 something. We are the second lowest attendance in Major League Baseball. Who’s the worst?
Nestor Aparicio 27:03
Tampa Bay? Oh, Tampa Sure, yeah. I mean the Yankees show up and play well. This is because you’re old baseball man, and you were at the news American in sports first when the Orioles were dangling and teetering and might be moving to DC and like all of that. So like, well, and also in Sacramento, you’re like, hey, we tried to steal teams we I mean, we began the conversation, talking about why it didn’t happen 40 or 50 years ago. And for all of the Denver’s and the Arizona’s and the Tampa’s and the Miami’s that have come online, and even the Montreal Washington thing, the dangling of these teams, like the Expos playing in San Juan and Tampa trying to dangle to be played in Montreal a couple of years ago, and now the roof blows off and the A’s don’t have a home. They’ve been playing in squalor for a decade and more, and it’s just so half assed. And I don’t know how the Sacramento people would react to high price tickets for low end Major League Baseball. That’s temporary, and like you’re the old sport Senator there, what is the columnist and you write about that at the Sacramento Bee?
Tom Couzens 28:12
Well, they overcharged because they thought they could fair enough market value all that stuff. I don’t regret paying what I paid. I wanted to see the Orioles, so I am going to see them, and I got a great view. I’m in right field, row two, and ironically, it’s two sections away from the lawn. Now, I think it’s the only major league baseball team plays in the stadium with lawn seating. I
Nestor Aparicio 28:40
8love lawn seating when I’m in Arizona and Florida spring training. There’s nothing better than lawn spring training march
Tom Couzens 28:45
for a regular season game. I don’t think anybody has lawn seating. The lawn seating started at $85 imagine paying $85 for a chance to sit in the grass out in right field when when the river cats came to Sacramento, those long tickets were two bucks. Anyway, they’re not getting 85 now. Every day, there’s an email that goes out. You can buy a lawn seat for tonight’s A’s game for $25 that’s still, you know, that’s a nice deal, alright? Well, that’s
Nestor Aparicio 29:14
the major league baseball that they’re borrowing out, like, like, with movie tickets being whatever a movie ticket is, baseball wants to get 25 bucks for you to walk in. That’s kind of like, that’s their per cap. That’s where their head is. And the discount thing here is the Birdland package with cheaper drinks and, like all of that. But, but they’re trying to sell into the history of the Orioles and the future of the Orioles, who allegedly are still going to be here in 2029 the Oakland A’s aren’t going to be in Sacramento, allegedly anymore. So I it is. It is a little bit of a cab ride, right? It is a little bit of a hey, come get Kim. Get the circuits while it’s in town. It’s a barnstorming, yes, yeah, right. But
Tom Couzens 29:55
keep in mind that as far I was in Vegas in December, I. The Tropicana is gone. There’s a mound of debris. When I was there, there’s no sign of a stadium being built, so let’s see if they build it well.
8Nestor Aparicio 30:10
And I keep coming back. I was in Vegas three weeks ago too, and, you know, like sort of the Mirage is all boarded up. It’s crazy, but I looked at it and I thought, they got a football team here. They got a hockey team here. Wayne Newton’s here every night, the spheres here every like, like, I don’t know where the passion or energy is going to come for baseball, or the baseball is going to bring tourism. The Tigers fans are going to go to Vegas because they want to sit in 110 degree heat and watch a lousy A’s team take on their tigers. I mean, because I’m a baseball guy, right? My name is Aparicio, so I come at it honest. I did that crazy baseball tour back in 2015 at the 30 ballparks in 30 days, because I wanted to see them all. I remember, right? I haven’t been to Atlanta yet, since they built the battery. So, I mean, maybe I’ll get there. I probably have been, and I’ve Kevin Byrne and I used to do this the old PR Director of the Ravens. We used to talk about how many stadia we had seen NFL games in, because I seen a lot of them, right? Because I’d seen all the old ones, a lot of the new ones, and some weird ones. And I’m going to use one of the weird examples for what you are in Sacramento. I went to, I flew into Memphis, Tennessee in 1997 to see the Houston Oilers play the Baltimore Ravens in Memphis, Tennessee, as the Tennessee Oilers that were about to move to Nashville, right? And they were there five minutes they played in the Liberty Bowl. There were 4400 people in the Liberty Bowl. Like, you know, it’s like, there was, there was literally, I mean, I have the pictures, right? It was literally 5000 people, maybe in Liberty Bowl, and, um, and they didn’t stay. They were supposed to stay a couple years. They were living in trailers. They were still training in Houston and moving the net. There was this disaster for an NFL franchise, and I saw it, and I’m like, If I lived in Memphis, why would I come see the Houston Oilers play the the Ravens at $150 because they were trying to scalp the tickets. They weren’t. Hey, what 10 bucks stop by and see the game. And when the Steelers came in, it was 50,000 Steelers fans that went into Memphis. And now we’re rolling dice and Tunica, you know. But I like I’ve seen these temporary huts in these, these little circus village things get built. Buffalo had it with the Tampa, with Toronto during the plague, and you couldn’t let fans in and like all that. So I could have gone up there and seen a major league game in the Buffalo stadium or whatever. I don’t know. I I love you, and I love the Orioles. I don’t know why I didn’t fly to Sacramento this week, because I I really should have, you know what I mean and what you’re telling me, I got two more years to be able to be able to do this, right? So next year I’d come and go to time three years like through that, they
Tom Couzens 32:52
have a three year deal with a possible fourth if the stadium’s not built. Now that’s not to say you know how the sports world works. Maybe this A’s owner who is not part of the problem with trying to draw people to the A’s right now is A’s fans in Northern California do not like the owner. I don’t you know whatever you know, so they don’t want to give him money. It comes down to so I can see a possibility in the first season, if they’re if they’re 12,500 that they might get an offer to go somewhere else for two seasons. See, that’s what I’m saying. It’s just a mess.
Nestor Aparicio 33:29
You know, we don’t see
Tom Couzens 33:30
8it happening. But meanwhile, a diva who has a lot of money, I’m sure he’s angling, he doesn’t talk to the media. Doesn’t talk to the public. We don’t know what he thinks. You know, when they fired the coach, Mike Brown, he didn’t talk to the media, but I can bet he’s working behind the scenes to try to rest this team away from John Fisher and and
Nestor Aparicio 33:56
figure one competition for the Kings there. It’s
Tom Couzens 33:59
synergy. I don’t think they look at this competition. They’re different. Seasons, he bought the river cats, and I thought the same thing. Why would he want to buy a triple A team? Well, he wanted the stadium so
Nestor Aparicio 34:11
well, I mean, when you’re wealthy, I mean, why would Rubenstein want this baseball team? He just wanted to make a bobblehead of himself and feel good, you know? I mean, like, if you feel like he’s doing something philanthropic or something, it’s like, and now they’re in last place, and he’s disappeared. See, how about owners? You’re out in front of it when it’s good. I mean, that’s the that’s the definitive 40 years of my sports them like, it tells me all I need to know is when you’re hiding when you’re losing, like when he was losing. You know what I mean? Like, I grew up in a generation. Johnny Oates didn’t hide when he lost. Cal Ripken didn’t hide when he lost, you know, I mean, Mark Andrews drops the ball. And, you know, next time you hear from spring training like I it’s, it’s bizarre to me that we’ve lowered the bar, but that’s, there are no columnist. I mean, the players used to sort of fear, you know, the organization sort of feared the media, a little bit of like. We don’t want the media writing bad stuff because it’s true. You know what I mean? Like, the bad stuff that was written by the media in Baltimore was true, not untrue, and
8Tom Couzens 35:09
they did another on Bob Irsay, right? The media had a field day with Bob Irsay, well,
Nestor Aparicio 35:15
and didn’t he deserve
Tom Couzens 35:17
it? Oh, of course, when he came back from Jacksonville on a on a mission to relocate the team there. He came, arrived at the airport, at BWI Airport, drunk and gotten a shouting match with the great late John Steadman that was broadcast live. I’m
Nestor Aparicio 35:33
8not talking to you. You’re a bad man. You’re a bad man. I’m not talking to you
Tom Couzens 35:37
on news broadcast because it happened to be like the noon news or whatever.
Nestor Aparicio 35:42
Check the towers, I’ve been azarona, and he said
Tom Couzens 35:44
I didn’t go to Jacksonville to try to take the team there. Yeah, whatever, yeah. It’s
8Nestor Aparicio 35:49
funny, man. Tom Cousins is my guest. Long time editor, sports guy, news guy, newspaper guy at Sacramento bees now in the real estate space out in Sacramento, enjoy
Tom Couzens 36:00
life
Nestor Aparicio 36:01
out there that may be winding
Tom Couzens 36:02
8up soon, because I’m ready to just keep traveling.
Nestor Aparicio 36:04
You know what? Every time you come back to Ocean City, I want to take you across the bridge and take it in. A Hobbit, get a crab cake, or get some fishers popcorn or something. You should be I should go to Ocean City with you and show me the history of Ocean City through your eyes, having grown up, french fries. Thrashers. French fries, the first thing you do, well, I
Tom Couzens 36:24
I’m not a big fan, but that the line, even in April, when we were there 100 people deep in line to get Thrashers french fries in April. All
Nestor Aparicio 36:31
right, so you’re a kid grow up motion city in the 70s. My my Aparicio uncle, my dad’s brother. His name was Omar. Everybody knew Omar. Omar was the wine sommelier at at the Chesapeake restaurant that and all the sports writers, Vince badly, they used to have the media lunch back in the 70s. Every week at the Chesapeake the media would get together and just talk. It was like a fun, friendly thing that Steadman put together and whatever. And Omar was the wine dude there. So he knew everybody, and He then worked at, are you ready the bonfire? Okay, so summer of 70 567, maybe 78 in those summers, my father was a stock boy at Mars supermarket, pantry pride. He was the overnight manager of of all the he he stocked the shells my father, but he was a manager of all that. And so he only he had weekends off. So on weekends my my uncle worked at the bonfire. He was the general manager of the bonfire, and then later the flaming pit, uh, right above Ordell bracey’s Flaming pit here in padonia. And
8Tom Couzens 37:39
at the time by Sam toston. He was a pretty well known, you
Nestor Aparicio 37:43
know that Cole tossed in his grandson runs blue in Ocean City. So we’re gonna get, I’m gonna go to the beach with you. I’m gonna have to do, I’m gonna grab Tom perlazzo down at Ocean City. We’re gonna do this. So my uncle was the manager of the bonfire, and my father, his brother, would put me in his Torino, and we would drive down the Ocean City. Listen, no, see, no, no, no, we you. Here’s the music We’re listening you ready? This will tell you the summer it was love. Love will keep us together. So, so it was like Captain and Tenille summer, and it was Paul McCartney and Wings doing let him in. So driving Ocean City, we would get down there. My My uncle had a place on 27/28 behind jolly Rogers, that long stretch of road with the apartment complexes. My uncle had the bed, right? So I spent my summers, parts of my summers of 7567 watching Charlie’s Angels, right? You know my all my my cousins were there, all my Aparicio cousins were there. And so I remember Ocean City. And when I have al Hondo handy on to talk about his book, we talk about softball diamonds down on Fourth, Fifth Street, where the water tower was, and all the softball games that got played down there with Phillips and all the crab houses and the embers and all of that. So I have some Ocean City
Tom Couzens 39:05
the most was a good team.
Nestor Aparicio 39:09
8But you spent your life down there, that period of time, right? That was year round,
Tom Couzens 39:13
growing up. Yours was amazing. And nobody cared about work permits, you know, stuff like that. We’re busting tables at 1213, years old, renting umbrellas on the beach. It was a great life. So
Nestor Aparicio 39:24
it gave you work ethic, though, too, right? Of course, yeah. People had money in their pockets, and coming down to the beach, and little Tom was going to get it
Tom Couzens 39:32
right, trying to I sold the Baltimore Sun papers when I was 10 and 11 walking on the beach. Check this out. It was 10 cents, and I got three cents. They got seven. But they people felt sorry for me. They might give me a buck or 50 cents. I still only had to pay the vendor seven cents. I got the rest of it. You
8Nestor Aparicio 39:51
know, I never lived at the beach. I chased girls down there. I tell all these stories Senior Week this week, it was legend, right? It was great. And my 40th anniversary, getting out of high my 30. 40th graduation was yesterday, so I’ve been sharing these senior week memories and all that. But my kid went down there and lived for five years and worked at Secrets, taking the scopey pictures. So my kid became a scoping guy, right? You know? So indoor bar, scopey guy, where people had money ready to give you, where on the beach it was always
Tom Couzens 40:19
like pictures. Do people know what telescope pictures are? Oh, my
Nestor Aparicio 40:23
God, every in my audience, everybody knows what scopeies are, of course, man, you know, I have
Tom Couzens 40:28
8one from 19 we lived, we check this out. So my dad must have been doing okay that year because we rented, uh, my family rented a cabin in 1966 at 82nd street that was way up north. I believe it was a two bedroom, one bath. He looks like next.
Nestor Aparicio 40:45
Probably nothing, right? Yeah, the whole
Tom Couzens 40:49
summer we spent there, my mom and she had five kids. My dad came on weekends, and my fondest memory is Joe the lifeguard. He was probably 21 but I looked him like he was a legend. He was as he was as big a figure to me as as Brooks or you know,
Nestor Aparicio 41:08
well, you know your your life takes you from Ocean City, Maryland to Sacramento. Tom Cousins will be at all real baseball this weekend. It is a bummer there in last place before we go. I love your stories. Tom cousin, of course, the one is
8Tom Couzens 41:22
so I went to University of Maryland graduate in 82 I’m going to say it was the spring of 81 it could have been 82 because I don’t remember what year Cal came up. But the Orioles came to University of Maryland to play the Terps in an exhibition game. And I’m working at the paper, so I I cover it. It might have been 8081 I can’t remember the year, but anyway, Cal wasn’t up in the bigs yet, but, man, the girls knew him, right? And after the game, he was just signing autographs, probably giving out phone numbers, whatever he was doing
Nestor Aparicio 41:51
early, wise and potential, right? I mean, he had hair
Tom Couzens 41:57
and Earl Weaver yelled some really choice language to get, you know, basically, we got to get out of here, kid, let’s go. And it was just funny. And he just stood there signing autographs. It was, I just took it all in. I said, dang, all the women, all the women loved him.
Nestor Aparicio 42:15
8You mentioned Earl Weaver. His name’s come up so much this week, I had John Miller on who wrote the book on Earl Weaver, the last manager, by the way, I know like other John Miller, yeah, the other John Miller. And, by the way, rave reviews on that book. So I read
Tom Couzens 42:29
the book. Well, excellent. I read it, yeah, I loved it. You
Nestor Aparicio 42:34
know, you’re the fourth person this week that’s told me that they read the book and loved it. And I told John that. And one of my lawyer buddies told me last week, over some crabs. Hey, I read the book. It’s fantastic. And I’m like, and I have the book, and I said, I want to do this on a beach. I don’t want to do this here, there. Last place, you know, I’m going to do a beach trip. At some point, I’m going to get to your beach. We’re going to be broadcasting Ocean City, Maryland, third week of August for Mako down there. We do that every single year, Tom Cousins. Spent his childhood in Ocean City, Maryland. He’s from born in Baltimore, but spent his life out in Sacramento, chasing the Sacramento Kings and Sacramento sports at the Sacramento Bee. At one time in 1984 he was a big brother. I looked at all of you like the way you looked at Joe the lifeguard. You know when you were my big brothers? You know when you would pull me over any of you and give me any like help with the English language, or tell me what to do or what not to do or how to do it, I took it all as gospel, man. I just drank it all in. So I am grateful to you. I I’m apologizing. I
Tom Couzens 43:36
was only 23 so it wasn’t like I was a grizzly veteran. We had John Steadman in the room. That was fun, yeah,
8Nestor Aparicio 43:44
but all of you were you, you were there working, you were had the job. I wanted, you know what I mean, and I wanted to study what you were doing, whether it was layout, whether it was editing, whether it was making sure the facts are right in this again, making sure we got it right. Because it was going into paper, my dad was reading it. It had to be right. It had to be correct. It had to be honest. It had to be truthful. It had to be factual, like those were basic standards of my life that we’ve just issued in our society at this point, that I can’t thank all of you enough for holding me to that standard. I mean literally, Nestor
Tom Couzens 44:17
in the summer of 84 to share this, the connection with Baltimore and Ocean City and all that. We worked at the sports first, we worked from 6pm to 2am Sunday through Thursday. Friday morning, 2am I get off work. Instead of going back to my apartment in Ellicott City, I go right to the over the bridge down to Ocean City. I have breakfast at like 5am with the fishermen. I spend the weekend there. I get in the car like at two o’clock on Sunday and make it back to my Sunday night shift. I did that all summer of 84
Nestor Aparicio 44:51
I did that this summer 86 and 8788 you know why? Because I worked at the evening sun, and my shift was I had to report to work when I first. Took the job. Well, that was Jack wanted me in it 1am every night, we moved it back to 11 to seven. I took an 11 to seven shift, except in the nights, when I went to hammer jacks, that one o’clock was fine, um, when I was when I was working, but, um, but we got off Friday morning and our paychecks, Mike Marlowe and I would walk from Calvert street, down Guilford, through the block. We never stopped at the pleasure palace, nothing like that. Oh, sure. And we went to Nick’s, Town and Country, which is now a kebab joint next to Uncle Lee’s. And we would get breakfast sandwiches at 6am we walk back and the woman that gave our paychecks, it’s before direct deposit, the woman that had our paychecks 8am the cage would open on the sixth floor, and we could get our paycheck at 8am on a Friday morning. So we would wait for our paycheck unless I didn’t need it, and then I’d say to Marlo, dude, I’m going to Ocean City. I’m getting off at 4am and my girlfriend Sandra would pick me up, or my buddy Rob would pick me up 4am on a he would cop out of work at Friday at the poop plant, and at 4am I would get back to Eastern Avenue, pack my bag, and we would beat all the traffic, and we would be in Ocean City watching the sun come up on Friday morning without a room, without a room, showers on First Street out on a boardwalk, right? I mean literally, division tree and without a room, and hat in hand and say, Dude, we’re gonna find Batman tonight. We’re gonna find girls. We’re gonna walk the boardwalk. We’re gonna eat bad stuff. We’re gonna chase girls. We’re gonna listen to music. We’re gonna look at girls. We’re gonna get a tan, we’re gonna play girl, we’re gonna look at girls. And that’s what we did. And I went back to work. I needed to be back to work Sunday night at 1am sort of, right?
Tom Couzens 46:42
8And I had to be back, yeah. So
Nestor Aparicio 46:45
Ocean City in 72 hours, you know, in 1986 8788
Tom Couzens 46:50
on a weekend semester, you talk about paychecks, and I do remember a time at the Baltimore news American when you got your paycheck. I forget, I don’t remember time or when it was available. And I went, I went immediately to the bank on the next block and and deposit it or cast it and put cash in your pocket. Well, we didn’t know how, how long the checks were going to be good. Oh, of course, at the Hearst, oh, yeah, yeah, right, yeah. So we had, we went fast get it in there while the ink was
Nestor Aparicio 47:18
nice and wet. I know what you’re talking about. Tom Cousins and I were co workers in 1984 at my first newspaper. It was not his first newspaper. It was called sports first. You kids can look it up. I did a huge piece last year on the 40th anniversary of its closing, which was September of 1984 which was the day of my son’s birth. Also the weekend that Michael Jackson played, played RFK Stadium. So it was a and the weekend before, Springsteen brought the board in the USA tour. So I mean good times in life. My son’s well, your life has worked out well. My thoughts to you and your real estate, the thing and all that. And I just hope you have a good time. You spent a lot of money seeing the Orioles playing Sacramento. You waited your whole life for the Orioles to show up at Sacramento. Jim Palmer to be there on Friday
8Tom Couzens 48:01
night for you. I’ll look for him. All right. Hey, one more one more quick one. I love your stories. Cause Go ahead. So as a kid, we didn’t have TV really, right? You didn’t have the game on every night.
Nestor Aparicio 48:14
How the hell did you get TV in 19 Well,
Tom Couzens 48:18
we had, we had cable TV in 1968 Yeah, what? And we got all the Baltimore channels, yeah, I did not know that it’s called ca TV, and we did have one Salisbury channel.
Nestor Aparicio 48:33
8Listen next time I if I work something, I want to have you come to Ocean City and sit and tell me these ocean city stores, because I am absolutely fascinated by someone that spent the 70s like I got back in the Torino with my dad in 76 and went home, you know, I had to go to school Colgate, you like, got to live in Ocean City, Maryland. To me, that’s almost as romantic as growing up on 33rd Street and being able to walk to Memorial, you know, like that. The next best thing would have been like, I, I grew up on 48th Street Ocean City in the 70s. I’m like, well, that must have been fun. I guess it
Tom Couzens 49:07
wasn’t until 1969 when the Orioles got clobbered by the New York Mets. As you you know the history of that that I didn’t it was 1969 when I realized that Brooks Robinson and Frank Robinson were not related because I didn’t have TV. You
Nestor Aparicio 49:26
had never seen them play
Tom Couzens 49:27
correct and we didn’t. You didn’t get baseball cards. Nobody cared about black and white. Then, I mean, it wasn’t I, you know? And I said, Oh, damn, I guess they’re not related. At nine, I knew I recognized that Robbie was my favorite player growing up,
8Nestor Aparicio 49:43
but you knew of him from the radio only, yeah, yeah,
Tom Couzens 49:47
gets a little transistor in one, one earbud,
Nestor Aparicio 49:52
all right. Well, I’m gonna have you back on. Um, well, you know the good news is we can do this. We can be like Alan Alden the movie same time next year, because he always gonna play in Sacramento again. Next year, I guess, if this is successful, right?
Tom Couzens 50:02
8Every year the American League comes to town, we only get the national teams every other year. So this year we don’t get say the Dodgers,
Nestor Aparicio 50:09
because they’re every other year. So you’re an old schooler like me. Let me tell you an old story that that I will end this one with, because I don’t get to tell this one much my the first team I ever hated was in 1973 Oakland A’s. I was five years old. They beat the Orioles, right? So the A’s of Rudy, bandeau, campaneras, Reggie, Richmond, all you know, catfish, all those blue moon Odum, all those guys, they were the original bad guys to me, you know? I mean, like, so the like, Charlie Finley was the original, was going to rot in hell, kind of guy when I went to church on Sundays. So Charlie finley’s daughters coming on the show this week. And, you know, Charlie Finley and what the A’s were, what the A’s became, and Billy ball, I mean, the A’s have this incredibly weird the elephant. I mean, just weird, weird history all the way around. And this is another piece of that rich tapestry, right? Like them playing in Sacramento, and you spending 100 bucks to come see him play this the A’s have been a circus all throughout, literally, from the colors that they wear. No offense, that was my high school colors, Kelly green and gold. So it’s not too circusy, but it was kind of circusy. I mean, yeah, the Oakland A’s and the A’s the athletics back to Kansas City, it’s been a circus 10 franchise. Well, think
Tom Couzens 51:20
about it. Nestor, they moved to Oakland 1960 1968 and by what 72 they were the best team in baseball. That was pretty, pretty good. Gives them hope, gives the Royals and the A’s hope,
Nestor Aparicio 51:36
yeah. I mean, I hear you. There’s nothing better than those 7273 jerseys and stuff, the golds and the whites and the spandex and, you know, the gold cleats, perfect. You know, hey, enjoy yourself out there. You’ve adopted the A’s Tom Cousins. Was my one time sort of boss, mentor of 41 years ago at the Baltimore news American and sports first, he went on to a life being a sports editor. You’d have been a hell of an editor for me, right? You there? You to crack my knuckles, wouldn’t you? I’d have been a good columnist for you, though, right? Tom, yes, I’m sure you would. You know I’m going to do when I get off here, I’m going to go grab that box and I’m going to find the rejection letter from the Sacramento Bee, and we’ll take a picture and send it to you so you can tell me who did it to me. I am Nestor. We are wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. Enjoy the baseball this weekend from Sacramento, California, a lovely Burg and hello to you. Scott LaBar, it’s.
