Author Joel Poiley returns home to Baltimore from his retired sportswriter life in Florida to discuss watching the Orioles implosion from afar and sharing some sports nostalgia and his book on the life of Tom Matte and what ails the Birds on and off the field.
Nestor Aparicio and Joel Poiley discuss the Baltimore Orioles’ disappointing season, their current last-place standing, and the team’s recent struggles. They highlight the Orioles’ poor performance, injuries to key players, and the lack of a clear direction under manager Brandon Hyde and GM Mike Elias. They also touch on the ownership issues, noting the absence of key figures like Jim Henneman and the lack of community engagement. Joel promotes his book “Last Man Standing” about Tom Matte, emphasizing its relevance for Father’s Day. They also compare the Orioles’ situation to other successful sports franchises, stressing the importance of community engagement and effective management.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, Tom Matte, Baltimore, sports nostalgia, injuries, pitching, Adley Rutschman, Mike Elias, ownership, community engagement, Jim Henneman, baseball history, Tampa Bay, Lightning, sports writing.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Joel Poiley
8
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore. Positive. We are getting the Maryland crab cake tour back out on the road. I have the Back to the Future scratch offs. We’re going to have these on Thursday, green mount station in Hampstead. I always love coming up there. They have a delicious crab cake the ball games on I was trying to do this around the mariners game on Thursday. Did not know the Orioles would be in last place, but I booked this back in April. We’re going to be at fade leaves next Friday. The oils will still be in last place next Friday as well. And the Angels of Anaheim, of La of Orange County of California will be joining us next Friday. Had a lot of different names. This guy is only had one name, but he’s had a couple of residences. You know what? The Father’s Day thing coming up? And I feel bad I didn’t, I didn’t promote Eisenberg’s books for Father’s Day. And I’ve had other authors on this week talking baseball, and even Rick Vaughn. I had, last week’s written a book on St Petersburg baseball. But this guy is an author. He was a friend of Tom Mattie, he has lived in Tampa as a sports writer for many, many years. He Chronicles Orioles spring training, and is still very much up on watching the Orioles. He is a Baltimore positive listener contributor from time to time out on my socials. Joe pointly joins us now from all things south and Dude, my wife’s been in South Florida for like, the last two weeks with her family. She is down in the Sarasota area. I mean, it’s been 90 there. It’s been 50 here. It’s been like November here. And finally, we get sunshine, and the Orioles are playing in the middle of the night, and they’re in last place. I mean, this is it’s disappointing to us here in Baltimore, but you’re sort of a displaced Oriole fan. You’re kind of hitting me once a week. Really bummed out about all this too, right,
Joel Poiley 01:44
right? And you know, knowing I was coming on, I made all these notes about things I wanted to touch on. It is such a mess. Look, even though they won those three games this weekend, they could have easily lost all three. They’re still not playing that well, the pitching is a little better. I don’t know which direction you want to go in. I mean, we can start with Elias and kind of, look,
Nestor Aparicio 02:09
I’m a slave to my guest, Joel. You know this time that he’ll do, I’ll do whatever you want. Man. All
Joel Poiley 02:15
8right. Well, let’s start with the book. Let’s get that out of the way. It’s selling really well. But as you know, if you’re going to make any money on a book, I mean, I wrote it as a passion project, but now that it’s out, you’re in the marketing phase, you want to make a few coins, if you don’t get into the 1000s with books. And I’m sure other authors have told you this, because of the percentages that you make on the book and be that they’re so small you really don’t make a lot, but it’s doing well. I guess I’m in the upper hundreds, six, 700 books. So write it for
Nestor Aparicio 02:50
people to read it. You know what? I mean, yeah, like my mind was done. They’re both online. If anybody wants to go read Purple Rain one or two, they’re there. If they have a copy, I’ll sign it. If I haven’t already, I see them on eBay sometimes for 20 minutes, you know. And and all I’ve ever wanted as I sat there enslaved and doing it twice in my life for printed books is for people to consume it. That’s all same reason I sit here and I make this every day, because I feel like the history of the Orioles, the history of the ravens, the history of Tom Mattie in the Baltimore Colts, the history of our city, really is up to the storytellers. And when we lose someone like Jim Henneman, which we did last week, which spurred you to write to me. You wrote to me because we lost Jim meneman, right? Like, literally, sort of a North Star, Guiding Light of authors and writers, because all of us in this sports space, it’s not just we consume each other’s stuff, it’s we’ve lived the same history, and we’ve all viewed it through different prisms. I think
Joel Poiley 03:50
we definitely have. I mean, I didn’t know Henny, and I almost hesitate to use Henny, you know, because I really didn’t know him. But when I was covering the O’s for the Carroll County Times in 85 and 86 and he was always there. And you always heard that booming voice in the background in the press box. But I read them for years, you know, and like I messaged to you. I loved his notes columns. And you learned a lot from people like that. And you held them in regard, you know, with all the great writers I grew up with, you know, Alan Goldstein, Phil you know Jackman Hatter, all those guys,
Nestor Aparicio 04:30
Bob Maisel in there, because Michael Lester brought his name up at Jimenez funeral last week too. And how was the names alive? Well, they had him in funeral. Was, was an amazing baseball tribute to him. And, you know, everything was kind of orange, right? And like his life in the Orioles and that crazy Louis Aparicio picture from 1963 where he was the Bat Boy, and, you know, and it was the no one had a definitive and. Answer about it, other than Bill stecken knew a little bit about it. Vaughn knew a little bit about it. And then I found that Baltimore magazine story from like three years ago, and I shared that Jim had written at length about it, but at Henneman thing, and this is such a beautiful tribute to John Steadman, to some degree. And I reached to Ernie, of course, he this week, who consumed me at stedman’s funeral and fathered me Ernie. Of course, he led a very broken, 28 year old version of Nestor at the side door at the funeral home down in York Road to console me. So some of these funerals, I mean, I went into the room where Jim Henneman was, it’s where Vicki brick was six weeks ago, and it just broke my heart again, because it’s just like that. Hennemans was a real celebration of his life in baseball, and people talking baseball and thinking baseball, Jim Palmer’s in the room and Tom Dave, you know, just Who’s Who was it was, everybody was there, right? But, but more than that, that crazy Louis Aparicio picture that we all sort of gathered around and we looked at and nobody could really identify and Curtin didn’t know much about it, and schmuck didn’t know anything about it, like, literally, Craig heist. I mean, I was gathering people, and I’m googling trying to figure out what it is, because we’re all baseball heads. We’re looking at a picture. We’re seeing bunting, we’re seeing the stadium. We’re seeing Louie, we’re seeing all this stuff, and Henneman was the Bat Boy. And I said Steadman had to been behind this at the news post, because Steadman was a carny and and sure enough, John Steadman put him up to it and said, write a story. Be a great angle. You get to be a bat boy for a day. It’s an angle. And as it turned out, that he was a childhood friend of barber who said to him, everything’s off the record here today. You can’t be talking about this. And Henneman was the Bat Boy in front of John Kennedy. So I mean the rich tapestry, and you ask, like, what hanneman’s funeral, just these incredible stories of a life well lived in and around the Orioles in baseball and the press box being named after him in Camden Yards. And I had Charlie Steinberg, unless we talking about him sobbing in 1991 and that 91 day at Memorial Stadium, for any of us that were of that age, that that is as memorable as winning a World Series, really, that last day in 91 that’s how rich the franchise is. And then they’re in last place. And it becomes a whole lot more fun to talk about Earl Weaver, you know, honestly,
8Joel Poiley 07:37
yeah, and it hurts, and like you said, the last 30 years. I mean, you know, the buck years were almost like a blip in the highway. You know, it’s been a struggle. And, you know, I’m watching what’s happened this year, and I’m, you know, I’ve been following the Orioles in baseball since 64 I can’t think of a team that has fallen this far, this fast, that was expected to do this well. And you know, you try and examine it from all these angles. And I mean, you can start so many different places, but I’ll just start with, like every bad team. And I think you mentioned this last week, they invent new ways to lose. I mean, even in yesterday’s game, remember that play where Carlson makes that sliding catch and then they have the guy dead to rights at first on the other end of it, whether he didn’t see the runner coming because he was sliding, but he lobs to throw in to Jackson, who drops the throw, even though it wasn’t a good throw. When you hear Palmer, and I’m listening to the highlights, you hear Palmer sighing like, Oh no, and it’s like even in a good play, they do something wrong. And high took the fall for Elias off season, but they came into the season. They weren’t sharp. But, you know, I’m trying to give Elias a little bit of leeway, because some of the guys he’s brought in have worked. You know, Carlson’s a player. Laureano was helping out, but he didn’t, obviously expect Eflin to be out pretty much the first two months. Gray rod, unfortunately, and I’m just spitballing here, but I’m gray rod, to me, is becoming Hunter Harvey, 2.0 great arm, great potential. His body can’t stand the rigors of a major league season, of a major league life. Can you count on the guy for 30 starts a year? I don’t think so. I mean, he’s probably not going to be back, if at all, until August. And obviously I don’t have any inside info. Yeah, I’m glad they won, but they they played a horrible team that if they could hit with rutters in scoring position, because, believe it. Not they were worse than the O’s. They could have won all three games, just like the O’s did. So let’s see what happens. I mean, they go to Seattle, and the big difference there is, and I know Luke has mentioned this, they have a hitting coach that knows what he’s doing. It’s easy to blame these hitting coaches, but one thing I’m seeing with Elias by bringing somebody like John Mabry in, not that he’s the end all, he is looking at the whole picture. He’s realizing that maybe their philosophy is the problem. And, you know, we can go into Adley and all that. But,
Nestor Aparicio 10:36
well, I mean, the ruchman thing, like trying to define what that is last year was the foul tip. And, you know, maybe he’s not right. And I don’t, I don’t know. I mean, it’s very, very difficult to play any professional sport at 85 or 90% when everybody else is at 100 no matter what it is, and the mental part of that, being a catcher, being a one one, it’s starting to feel like it’s getting heavy, the losing part, but me just the body language, or what that kid looked like three years ago. And I don’t know, fake hustle, whatever. You know, Luke is referred to different things and but it just all the Mojo. And you mentioned the fall guy, and being Brandon Hyde and all of this, I don’t know how they could have sustained the injuries. And had they spent a billion dollars on pitching, maybe they’d be more in it. But cows are Westberg Henderson didn’t begin the season healthy. Richmond, I don’t know what this is. And Jackson holiday maturing. Great. O’Hearn, I mean, you can have a couple of players that are going to be all star caliber, but if they’re going to win it, the pitching just not good enough. And we really did. Dave shining on it. Peter John’s back in March before the season began, we have Viviano at fade least. We were talking pitching and all that. We were all a little concerned about the pitching, but not like last place 15 games under 500 that that’s that’s a confluence of a lot of really bad things that’s happened on the field and mistake all along. I mean, runners are scoring position, batting average, left handed can’t hit, left handers. We just go down the list of all of this that makes a last place team, but you have a general manager that wasn’t even hired by this owner. You had an owner that thought he had something he doesn’t have. You have a manager that’s been fired. You have an interim manager, right? This is Joe i By the way, Joe poorly is our guest. He’s down in Tampa. He’s an author, but from Baltimore, and we’ll get to the Tom Matty book and all that. But long time sports order, I look at this and say, What can I measurably look at the Rubenstein thing, and we’ll get to his bobble head and all that, because you were in Tampa for lousy ownership forever and ever and ever. And I talked to Rick Vaughn about that last week, right? I what’s good? I mean, like, you’re in Tampa as a fan, as a reform media guy, and like baseball head. You look at this and I’m like, Jackson holiday is good. I’ll give you that. Henderson, okay, what if I’m an owner? What else do a Camden Yards, we’re getting $600 million and we’re going to figure out a way to make our own little bird head thing and throw all the media out into left field and start to charge 12 grand to sit behind home plate. I I’m looking at this and saying what they stream now, which is good for guys in Florida that want to get it for 12 bucks
Joel Poiley 13:27
a month, right? Right, right, right. I mean, let’s take a step back here. The injuries confound me in the sense, and every team has them. And, yeah, the Dodgers can overcome it because of the money. I mean, they literally have two starting pitching staffs that they can draw on, two seven man staffs, because they have all the money to do that, but they have 14 pitchers, I think on the i L right now, you can’t account for the injuries. But what I don’t understand this is these guys don’t work during the off season. They have personal trainers, personal chefs. The first time gunner goes up for a line drive February 27 he strains the intercoastal, whatever the hell that. You know, it’s like, they can’t stay healthy.
Nestor Aparicio 14:16
8Isn’t that the bridge between St Pete and no, I’m sorry, I know
Joel Poiley 14:20
you’re joking, but it’s like, is it the trainers? I mean, everybody’s coming under scrutiny here, and it’s Charlie Morton, 41 years old. He’s thrown a million curveballs in his career, and he, all of a sudden, he developed Steve blast disease and doesn’t know how to throw a curveball. I’m glad he’s found it, but he’s as big a reason they’re in this mess right now as anything. But you
Nestor Aparicio 14:47
were asking Charlie Morton to be Corbin burns. Man, look at burns. Burns
Joel Poiley 14:52
is now probably looking at potential Tommy John, you saw that pulls himself out of the game the other day. With tightness in the elbow. So then you’re saying, all right, maybe Elias kind of knew what he was doing, not spending but then and again, I’m from afar, but I follow. Elias did
8Nestor Aparicio 15:11
not know what he was doing. They’re in last place, so okay, whatever they did didn’t work, and that’s usually not good when you’re left over from the old guy’s management team, like, I’m just saying, and they’re about to draft, I’m really asking, Are you going to allow michaelias to do this job? And then I saw him fire the manager you called it. Was it scapegoating or whatever the word you use for it? And then he hid for three and a half days. There’s nothing about this that I’m like, I I’m not. I don’t like the smell of this. Joel,
Joel Poiley 15:43
well, you were talking about Rubenstein, and I agree with you that, other than Cal, is there anybody in that new regime who knows Jack about baseball? So he’s got to leave Elias alone, because the draft’s coming up. You can’t fire your GM a month for but he better draft some pictures, but, and you probably have to give Elias the off season to correct this. The thing about Elias that I’m trying to figure out is, I know there was that story that came out in the off season about, and, you know, there was controversy who wrote it, or whatever, that he’s trying to build a team without spending a lot of money. And I’m thinking, well, Rubenstein said, go ahead and spend some money. And you know, we spent some money, just not the right type of money.
Nestor Aparicio 16:30
Doubled the payroll right, but certainly haven’t doubled the output, if they’re bean counters and they are right.
Joel Poiley 16:36
8But when you looked at his off season, maybe there’s some credence to that. And then you start thinking, okay, he’s a good builder again, though we’re looking at these guys who aren’t panning out the way. They’re all just falling apart. And here’s the thing, if you look at the guys, he’s drafted, cowser, even Stowers, Mayo, kirsted, the two guys that are big hitters down in the miners now, beavers, and I can’t remember the other guy, Fabian, well, bisayo, we don’t know as much about but they were all high power, big strikeout guys. And then you always read Matt blood, the scouting director, saying, oh, you know, we have the system to correct that. Uh, dudes, it ain’t working. And these guys are like, going backwards. Okay, let’s get to Adley a little bit. I looked at film of him last year, from April, May and June, and then in September, and you’re right back injuries, hand injuries, those are debilitating injuries for any of us but a pro athlete. It’s tough, and you’re never going to get Adley to say anything, because he goes to the Derek Jeter School of interviewing. Give them something, but say absolutely nothing. Maybe that’s competitive advantage, but I looked at those films of him in September. Remember both right and left, he’s fallen backwards on his back leg like he doesn’t have any strength anymore. He’s trying to lift everything, you know, and he has that horrible second half, okay? And the only quote that was useful to me from him the entire rest of the season was after they were eliminated, he says, I have to get my body right. So was he hurt? Was he overweight? Did he need? Need to eat better. Who knows? He’s never going to tell us, and neither will the team come to spring training. Has a great spring training, but as we know, spring training numbers don’t mean anything. I mean said hit 150 in spring training, and look how he came out of the gates. I went to a spring training game March 18, so I always tried to go late in spring so I can see what looks like the real team that was the game. Povich pitch five, no hit innings against pretty much Toronto’s a team Adley homers, Mount Castle crushes, two home runs, one over to center field. I you know batters. That’s pretty much what happened on
Nestor Aparicio 19:10
opening day when Luke and I went to Toronto. It was just like, boom, boom, boom, six home runs. And rush into the whole deal, right? It felt like, here we go. This is going to be something, huh? Yeah, the
Joel Poiley 19:19
second Homer Ryan hit that day went over boogs barbecue into the parking lot. I mean, he’s crushing it. And then you see what happens. So you can’t put anything into spring training. Numbers other than hopefully guys are healthy, and Adley seems to be that, you know, opening day, Adley, he always hits couple Homers. Knocks him five. I mean, exaggerating, but he always has a great opening day. He looks a little better at the plate, but the other thing that went haywire last year was when he got called up in 22 even though we didn’t hit for the first 20 or 25 games, he had an advanced batting eye that really impressed me. He walked a lot. He contributed. Then he started getting a. Hits. You know, I’m not a big analytics guy, and I know Luke buys into that somewhat. I don’t care that his hard hit rate is pretty good right now, there’s a lot of green grass out there. Hit the ball hard, and like Chuck Thompson said, The brakes were weaving out over the course of a season. There’s something going on with him now. The other day, struck out three times when he came back from a concussion, and I’m thinking maybe he shouldn’t have come back so soon. So I’ll give him a pass. I just
Nestor Aparicio 20:28
think there’s a press on him in a general sense, and then he did take the ball. I mean, he’s a guy doesn’t have a lot of rope right now in regard to his career. I mean, this isn’t a a a blip a week a month. It’s over two seasons. It’s a full season and a body of work now that is, you know, going to cost him a job, cost him opportunities, and certainly the bisail thing and coming along, and, you know where they are. I mean, we went from a year ago, Mr. Moneybags is buying the team, and we’re going to give Richmond 400 million. We’re going to give Anderson 500,000,004 give Anderson 500 million, and we’re going to sign him up for a million just to try to figure out holiday might be the best player of the whole bunch of westburg. Might be the best player of the whole bunch of them, and he hadn’t played
8Joel Poiley 21:11
at all. I love Westberg. I mean, I hope he comes back healthy and well, he was the best they had with runners in scoring position. He gives you a good at bat. He doesn’t strike out as much. He’s a gamer. He reminds me of the old time guys going back to Adley for a sec. If he wasn’t a one one, he may have been sent back for a reset. And a lot of times, look at kirsted. I mean, he doesn’t deserve to be in the majors right now. I mean, making mistakes on the bases he bumps into and you know, he and Mateo in the outfield is a Alphonse and Gaston. It’s
Nestor Aparicio 21:43
well, then they bring Mayo up, and he’s in the middle of a brawl with another last place. It’s like, What the hell are you guys doing?
Joel Poiley 21:51
I know. I mean, I know what he was trying to do, you know, create interference. But it was so obvious.
Nestor Aparicio 21:57
8It was bush league, and now we’re emptying benches with the White Sox in last place you want me to throw down and get injured in a fight when I when I’m hit 206, I mean, she just all of it, all of it. I mean, that that’s Tony mancellino. Is their manager. That’s not the way they drew this up. They’re working on an interim manager too. I’m wondering where we’re going to get some sort of solidification, and I’ll hear you. By the way, the draft is July 13. Because somebody asked me that the other day, July 13 is the draft. So think all star All Star week. They’re trying to sort of group it all together and whatever. But it is. It’s not a time to be firing your management team. That’s for sure. You
Joel Poiley 22:44
can’t Okay, so I’ve asked you this before, what is Cal’s involvement? Because I don’t know, because, like I said, he’s asked Luke, I mean, because he’s got to be the only one that I see in that new group that knows anything about baseball, and he could be guiding Rubenstein regarding what to do with Elias. We don’t know any of that, but
Nestor Aparicio 23:08
I have no idea how involved Cal Ripken is or isn’t, and no one has been forthcoming. And that’s a real problem, in a general sense, with these people that own the team, and like, I keep going on and on, no one came out to really, uh, there was no David Rubenstein or Katie Griggs representing themselves at Jim henman’s funeral last week. And that was pointed out to me as well. And I’m thinking like, Jim henneman’s written more about your baseball franchise than any human on the planet, and, um, even if you didn’t know, even know him, you would build trust with people who did. And and we’re community here, man, and you’re down in Florida, by the way, Joe Poley is our guest. He is an author, and we’ll get to the Tom Matty thing, because it’s a Father’s Day thing and a great gift if you like books. And you’re an old colts person. You’re an old Baltimore person. Tom Matty transcends the Colts and me, for crying out loud, he’s Baltimore and Ohio State and whole bunch of other things. But you know, for me, with this, this ownership and what I had hoped the next thing that would come after Angelo’s would be, it wouldn’t be about making fake videos about how involved you are, and funny funnies with Cal Ripken this time last year, and this time this year, you’re in last place, and Cal’s hiding. Your hiding. The general manager takes three and a half days to answer questions. Takes questions in Milwaukee, it’s chicken shit. I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s bush league, and they’re in last place, and the stadium is empty and and here’s where the rubber meets the road Joel. And this has nothing to do with nasty Nestor radio or this or that. This has to do with me being a Costas and up at Greenmount station, where, there I get real Oriole fans. And out at the pool in Vegas, where was more of a country club set, but I get real Oriole fans who fund this, whether it’s sky boxes. Sponsorships, advertising on mass and whatever it whatever it is, my buddy, who I had crabs with last week, has enough money that he can give him two grand and buy tickets and do an account. He doesn’t buy ravens tickets. He’s off the grid. He’s much more like you collecting that beautiful Oriole banner you have behind you in a colts banner, and collecting Brooks Robinson cards and whatnot, right? But he loves sports. He’s just sort of like, wasn’t going to give Angelo’s money. Went down once or twice a year when he wanted to go right, whatever. But got into this Birdland thing, and he gave him money, right? He’s like, hey, I want to be I want to get in. I want them to have the money to sign Adley rutchman, I want to be a stakeholder. I’m going to be a good community dude. And I think he might have done it through business. I’m not even sure I think he did. I’m going to ask him. I’m not going to out him, but he’s this could be anybody? This could be anybody in my audience that said, Yeah, I’m going to give me 100 bucks, 1000 bucks, being the gold club. I don’t even know what they what it is, but you give them the money, and then you go on your app, and you basically just buy tickets off of the money you’ve given them. And for that you get the discounts you get, the cheaper this, you get, the reward point, all of that, right, right? He gave him a couple grand, and now he doesn’t want to use it, and he’s watching all of the lack of all of this, right? And just saying, What are you people? He sees how they’re treating me, and he’s my friend, yeah. And he’s like, Dude, I thought that these new people would be, like, human. They have not been. They have not I mean, the general manager hid for three and a half days from answering questions. I mean, that’s so bush league that I don’t even but it’s the same Angelos got away with that. I mean, like with the stuff they got away with for 30 years, is why the place is empty. And the 30 seconds that I have with the owner, I spent my whole night. I went out to bet the fellow, I stood, I did the whole deal, and waited to the end of the end to have 30 Seconds to him. And I told him the crux of the whole thing, if he hired me, there’s been a lot of trauma here, a lot of trauma for Baltimore sports fans, as I look at your cold Spanner behind you, and anytime I talk to the Rick Vaughn and the Charles Steinberg’s, or if Jim Henneman were here, any of those people in the 80s, you were here cover. You were in the press box in 85 and 86 you thought they were moving the team to DC.
Joel Poiley 27:22
We were hearing quite a bit of that. Yeah, grown ups
8Nestor Aparicio 27:25
believe that. So for all that the truck, we lost the bullets. I mean, you mentioned Jim Henneman. Jim henna was the PR Director of the bullets when they left Baltimore, 7172 right? So, like all these pieces come together, and if you have no emotional intelligence as the owner. You have no emotional intelligence as the team president, coming in from Raleigh and Atlanta and Seattle, and you don’t know anybody here, and you’re trying to build trust with the community. That’s what’s lacking, is trust. And my buddy gave them two grand on a credit card. He ain’t going to give it to him again. And that’s man, that’s really, I’ve waited 30 years to give these people my money. I swear to God, you know this, Joel, I went to the whistler Chris Ullman last year, and I’m like, I’m dying to get back in and like, let’s do the right thing. Right be the right kind of people do the right thing. And they, they haven’t done that, they haven’t done that. They they’re not even doing that. When they’re firing their manager, like it’s it’s very, very problematic for me. It’s very concerning for me.
Joel Poiley 28:30
Would you said surprise me? You’re telling me nobody from the organization was at henny’s funeral. I think Bill
Nestor Aparicio 28:37
Stecker was there because he and blood brother I’m talking about from the top. I’m talking about, that’s what I mean. There Jim Palmer was there, right, you know. But like, I’m talking about, like, management, ownership, like, no, the man, you know, Tony, I didn’t see Tony man’s leader. Like, I’m not doing roll call on a funeral. I’m just saying, like, the Orioles. I mean, he Jim anneman was the Orioles. That’s
Joel Poiley 28:59
8the point, though. That surprised me, that you told me that, and it just adds another layer to Yeah, I mean, I hope this isn’t another Angelo situation, but you’re right. It’s been over a year now, and I haven’t seen
Nestor Aparicio 29:15
signs. By the way you said, you hope it’s not another Angelo situation. The Angelo’s lieutenants are still in charge. You’re
Joel Poiley 29:22
right. Bader, I know
Nestor Aparicio 29:23
Bader, Jennifer, granddaughter. They’re still running. I mean, Mike Elias is an Angelos hired business representative, right? Like literally. So I’m wondering. That’s why I don’t think he’s long for wear and if that, that’s just what my tea leaves would tell me. But all the Angelo’s people are still here. Then they’re still running things, important things like the television now, really important things, yeah,
8Joel Poiley 29:50
and like you’ve said, the one thing that they did not expect was for the the product on the field to go south, and especially. Because that’s all they had in terms of the marketing, since they weren’t really getting that involved in the community, from what I’m understanding, and now they don’t know how to fix it. I mean, as far as the team and the product, I mean, the one thing about manzalino I have liked a little bit is at least he gives his pictures a little more rope, but he still seems like Luke said, like a junior varsity manager, like he didn’t expect to get it. He’s he’s just happy to be there, but he seems to be growing into the role.
Nestor Aparicio 30:33
I mean, some games, I mean, they’re not winning them the way we want them, the runners position and all that, but they’re getting better at pitching, right? And
Joel Poiley 30:41
that’s, that’s always going to be the key. And, you know, if that can continue on a positive trend, they can maybe break 500 or get the 500 but like you said, I don’t think there’s enough of it for them to get back in this thing. I mean, they were nine and 18 in May, and you know, until the end of May, God, they hardly won anything. They’re not going to go 18 and nine in June. They’re just not. And the other thing people tend to forget is, okay, it’ll be great when cows are gets back, although he strikes out too much. Westie, I was never a fan of O’Neill. I hate these muscle bound geeks, man, because baseball is about flexibility and quickness, and you know, you’re never going to get more than 100 games out of O’Neill now, if he hits 25 dingers the rest of the season, then correct me, and I’m wrong. But the point I’m getting at is, as these guys come back, they still need to ramp up a little bit so they’re not in most cases, they’re probably not just going to make the lineup look better and all of a sudden, you know, we’re going to be the team that we were the first three months of last year. So look, we’ve both seen pennant races decided late. So I’m not saying anything’s out of the realm of possibility. I remember when Steinberg was talking last week, about the 74 season, they were to hitless wonders. They were two games under 500 on Labor Day. But look at their pitching staff. I mean, McNally was near the end, but he could still pitch quite are was still winning 20 games. Palmer was in his prime. Rudy May was pretty good. I don’t remember who somebody the other Bob Reynolds, yeah, they pitched a week’s worth of shutouts. That’s not going to happen with this crew. So, yeah, things can happen. We’ve seen I go back to 64 to fight in Philly’s five up with 10 to play, and they lose on the last day of the season because gene Mark blows out his pitching staff. I mean, anything’s possible, but I just don’t see a clean, crisp product that where they can even run off more than three or four in a row. Now they take two or three from Seattle. That would surprise me, because I think Seattle is a better club than they are right now. Well, look as
Nestor Aparicio 32:58
8comprised in February. If we would look at them and say Westberg wouldn’t have an at bat. This year, cows are wouldn’t be a factor. This year, ruchman would stink. This year O’Neill would be a problem. Just curse that would be unproductive. Mayo wouldn’t be here yet. And when he is, he’s starting fights. Sanchez, the money they spent on him, no bueno, like just, just down the list, yeah, you know, holiday and O’Hearn, a great story. Oh, Hearn. I mean, where he is in his career, and what he went through was a first round, a failed first round draft pick. Holiday showing all the the lights that, quite frankly, ruchman showed two years ago, right, and Henderson showed as an MVP candidate two years ago. So they have these pieces, and if they could put together health I will hear all along. If Mike Elias is pleading for his job at the end of this with Rubenstein, the excuse would be, my pictures, all got hurt. My hitters all got hurt. You know, I was lousy about signing free agents and stuff like that, but we had young talent that got injured, not other than Richmond, not failed. And like to your point, he might be injured as well. It has been an unbelievable spate of injuries. And the sport itself, if you’re identifying it from the outside, statistically, like David Rubenstein, would be inclined to do all these guys arms falling off. It’s and believe me, it’s not lost on Jim Palmer, you know, when he talks about it, in regard to all of those teams that made you the Orioles fan that you are, Joel poily, and made me the fan I am. You know, 60s, 70s, 80s, all those pictures you mentioned, they all pitched. You know, I remember Flanagan getting hurt in that crazy basketball game in the off season. And, you know, I’m trying to think of some freak injuries where players, I remember Louie broke his thumb or finger. Her late in his career, sliding in the second base. He was a much old 7172 red sox late in his career, and he missed like, if you look in the back of his baseball card, you’ll see only played 90 games or something. And but if you on the back of baseball cards, you can always look and see how many games people played in me at bats they had. You don’t build Hall of Fame careers in the hot tub, you just don’t, and that’s part of B to your point pliability flex, you don’t hit like Tony Gwynn, if you can’t play. And, you know, if you can’t play every day, and even though he was always sort of out of shape and doughy and whatever. And I talked to Tony Gwynn about that at the end, at the end of the end of the end of his career, I did a long sit down. You want to listen to something cool? Joel, go listen to Tony Gwynn. And I cut it up. I asked him about his weight, like, candidly, like, in a way that I don’t think you could ask players that stuff anymore, but I asked him about that, and he, you know, Hey, man, I, you know, I got 33,000 hits because I played every day, you know, like, period, I was ready to play. So you say whatever you want about me, but I played 600 at bats every year, all the time. That’s the pathway to any Hall of Fame career in anything, and it’s sort of in load management in the NBA. Meanwhile, I got Ovechkin coming back to score 900 right?
Joel Poiley 36:18
And the thing is, the way Look, I know I sound like an old curmudgeon, but the game, the game was so much better when your cousin played. I love Louis, the great player, man and but if you look at the back of their cards, all of them Brooks, boo, even boo, who struck out a lot. I think he struck out 100 times, maybe once in his career. The game now is just home run, Derby, home run or nothing. I saw an interview a couple years ago. May have been Palmer interviewing singing when singing was still broadcasting for the Yankees sing. He said we were embarrassed when we struck out. You would hang your head when you’d walk past Earl, especially if you got called out on a third strike. Now, strikeouts are okay. Look, I’ll take a hard hit double play. You know why? Because the Orioles and a lot of teams do, but we’re just talking about the O’s. They strike out so much. Think about this. That is in action in a game, you strike out 10, 1215, times. The defense doesn’t even need their gloves, you know, parenthetically speaking, but you know where I’m at here, the Orioles don’t create any action to get you out. There was a game last week. It was a game Povich pitch, and he blew up in the fifth inning against the Cardinals. They were leading three. Nothing. Sadly, they down a bunt, which he should do so much more of. He and Mateo, the pitcher gets it. And no matter how much pitcher fielding practice these guys do in the spring, most pitchers can’t feel their position because they’re not used to it. Palmer Musina, they were the exceptions. Cardinals pitcher, I think, was miles Nicholas, gets it, bounces the throw to first O’Hearn is able to score from second. You know, said got his bun hit. Why he and Mateo could avoid slumps all year. Think about this. If said, would get five more bun hits in a month. That’s 30 more hits in a year. Instead of hitting 230 he could hit 270 and for him, you might command a hell of a lot more money in the off season. So I’m just kind of, you can tell I’m kind of fed up with the game itself now, but the Orioles are in that, that mix where you got to look at how they play, they don’t create enough action for the other team to even try and make it hard on them to get them out. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 38:43
the White Sox wanted to throw it around like the bad news bears. Yeah, hey, let’s get to your book. Here it is, Father’s Day. Joe, poorly is here author and a friend to Tom. Mattie, give the little synopsis of how this all happened, because the books a couple of years old, but still great storytelling. And, you know. And everybody here loved Tom. And I, you know, I remember when Tom passed me, telling you that story about him coming up to me and out at the Ravens facility in right front there, where Tony Lycus was underneath the art modes thing, and saying to me, Hey, man, people calling a radio station. They want an old colt to come sit with him, give him a number. Tom, Matt, he was a special guy, dude.
Joel Poiley 39:20
It’s in the book, and that’s, that’s when I contacted you. The book hasn’t been out of here. It came out last August, so this is the first Father’s Day It’ll be around. I
8Nestor Aparicio 39:30
mean, I knew why. The reason I reached you, it feels like your book’s been out five years, but, well, you’ve had me on so much. Oh, I’m sorry. All right. So the books new. I feel that John Miller on this week too. They wrote the weaver the weaver book, yeah. And everybody, by the way, somebody came to me the other day and was Raven about how great the book was, right? I was in Henneman spheres, like, you gotta read John Miller’s unbelievable Weaver. I got it, yeah. And I’ve been having him on for five years too. And the book just came out, like five minutes ago, but it feels like it’s been out for a while, so,
Joel Poiley 39:56
but, yeah, I would think this would make a great Father’s Day gift for people. People out there to, you know, love the old Colts. Remember? Tom, yeah, I cherish that relationship, you know, even though it ended up only being a couple months and I got told I still keep in touch with Judy Maddy and, yeah, but what’s really been interesting for me, and it’s made me feel good. Have been the people that maybe were outside of Baltimore that picked it up and they contacted me and said I didn’t know that. I didn’t know how great a player he was. I didn’t know the connection to the city. I kind of remembered the Colts left, but I didn’t remember all the madness with her. Say, I learned a lot. So you know, if you lived a lot of that, that’s fine, but it’ll bring back a lot of good memories, some painful memories. But, you know, we love those old guys. That’s why I wore this shirt. There you go, being on today. And yeah, it would make a nice father. And great voice, yeah, yeah. So, yeah. I mean, I don’t play that in the kazoo, no, but I’ve appreciated anybody up there that bought it. Um, John zeman’s been great. I know he’s pushing it with a lot of people. So yeah, you can get it on Amazon, orange noble books, a million. It’s out there,
Nestor Aparicio 41:25
Last Man Standing. But when you call it
Joel Poiley 41:28
8up, just make sure you put in Tom’s name, because there are other books out there titled last man standing. There you
Nestor Aparicio 41:34
go. All right, make sure you get the right book. Exactly what the other last man standing. You can make me google it. Joe Boyle is here. It’s P, O, I, L, E, y. He is down in Tampa Bay via Baltimore. He is one of us. Was a sports writer here and became a sports writer in Tampa. He is now a recovering author and struggling, struggling mightily. Orioles fan down there. You know, I had Vaughn on last week just talking about in your area of what the Tampa Bay Lightning have become there, in regard to a brand, it really, I mean, for you being down there, if I would ever told you 25 years ago, when you went down there, that hockey would own Tampa Bay, no one would believe it. And people here don’t, but the future that baseball team down there sticky, right? Oh,
Joel Poiley 42:16
definitely. I mean, look, the Bucks have won, what, four straight divisional titles. This is a hockey town, and it’s because of ownership. They treat the fans well. They the pregame and during the game. Presentation is wonderful, and they’re winning team. You know consistently, you know you’re not going to win the Stanley Cup every year. The baseball situation is a mess. I’m sure you went into that with Rick. Yeah, you got this group now in Orlando that’s wanting to bring the team over there. I think the biggest hope here, and Rick may have mentioned this, DeBartolo, who used to own the 40 Niners, and Joe Malloy, who was part owner, I think with the Yankees at some point, apparently they’re trying to put together a group to buy the rays from Stuart Sternberg and keep them here. But I mean, this whole season’s a joke. The Yankees come here during the regular season to play, and they’re the visiting team at basically their stadium, Steinbrenner field. But what was so funny about it was they had to use the visitors locker room, and they spend millions of dollars last all season, upgrading the home locker room, and they couldn’t even use it when they were in town playing the rays. I mean, this whole thing’s a mess, I mean, but supposedly they’re going to be back in the trop next year, but they’re spending a lot of money on that. Sternberg, the owner, lost me a couple years ago when he he and Manfred proposed that split season with Montreal. I mean, that was a direct slap in the face of everybody down here. Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 43:54
people in Jacksonville accepting that their teams playing in London a couple days like, I don’t know, man, I like, we’ve just really lost the ball of what community is and what these teams are, and the lightning in your community have won the hearts. And the baseball team that’s been there longer, trying harder, they’ve won as well, and had Joe Madden and did all of that. And you know, the thing about Tampa was, you say it would work. There kids in Florida can play baseball 1213, months a year if they want to, right? And hockey wouldn’t work because it’s too hot. And Florida’s playing three, four more games here this week down there. And the Stanley Cup Finals, Stanley Cup Finals, six years in robe in the state of Florida, right? Exactly.
8Joel Poiley 44:33
So it comes back to what you’re saying. I mean, if you treat the fans, right, you give them a quality product, and you get involved in the community, even if you come in from Seattle or wherever. You know it can happen no matter where. Joel,
Nestor Aparicio 44:51
I shared this picture here because my wife and I went down when and I had Barry Trotz coming on a little while trots is coming on when the caps won the. Cup back in 18. This is May 11 of 2018 my wife got sick as a dog. She was visiting her family down there. It was Mother’s Day weekend, right? May 11. We went down. I think this was game five or seven. I think it now it’s one of the early games, maybe because they won game seven down there to go to the Cup finals and but my wife had a front row seat, and everybody behind her swearing lightning Jersey. She was she had the greatest time, but that arena was electric, and that was a playoff game, and we went down together. We had the best time, and we got out on the plaza and drinking beer, and there’s bands, and it’s just a big, giant tailgate already downtown Tampa. I’ve been there for Springsteen and I’ve been there for the Eagles and I’ve been there for lightning games. But that’s what when, when I talk about owning a community the Orioles can’t rely on old school Joel and Brooks Robinson and the streaming package, and I know good baseball is the foundation of that, but it’s not, and I treat keep trying to tell all my sports heads. It doesn’t begin with that. It begins with people in the in in the front office who have a vision and a strategy for where the money’s coming from, for the humans that are pulling out their credit card who are the ATMs who are going to support this? And I don’t know why all look, I’ll show you this picture again. I don’t know why all of these people back here were paying $200 that night to sit up on the roof and watch hockey at a playoff game, but I know one thing, the lightning weren’t selling them on Gordy hall or Bobby Orr or Phil Esposito, even though I saw him that night and gave him a hug that night, he was alive and well. And I, I, you know, Espo and I got it on because ubriaco and he were from the Sioux, that’s right, they’re from the Sue. So when you, when you talk hockey with those guys, feels great, you know, espos pinching my cheeks before I left. Once I started telling them, ubriako took care of me so but that was the hockey community, and that’s what ubriaco would say to me, you love my game. I’m going to teach you my game. And that’s what they went down to Tampa and did. They taught everybody their game the way the skip Jacks wanted to do it here. The Clippers wanted to do it here, and they failed. The Orioles made it work here. The Colts, I’m looking at your Colt thing, it made it work here, until they started mistreating people when the earth says came in. And I just want the Rubenstein thing to be better than it is. And I don’t know that, I don’t know that I like this right now, Joel, any of it really? Go
Joel Poiley 47:42
back to Jerry hoffberger. Go back to Carol Rosenblum. I mean, it’s in the book. One of the first things Rosenblum told Tom when they drafted him was you got to treat the fans right, and they’ll treat you right, and they’ll support us. But don’t ever forget, they are your bread and butter, and you’re right. I mean, we haven’t seen it well. We up there for a long time, and it plays well in any community like you look at St Louis. I mean, they’ve always respected their fans. You don’t win every year, but they have a long history there. And the owner, you’re right. Look, it’s fun talking about Brooks Frank Jim. That’s a long time ago, dude, you know, and you’ve got to continue to do that. And it’s really just seemed like
Nestor Aparicio 48:32
8Palmer’s games.
Joel Poiley 48:35
What is the deal with that? So that wasn’t his
Nestor Aparicio 48:38
will. That’s what the deal is. I don’t know. Call Greg Bader if you can get him on the
Joel Poiley 48:42
phone. Yeah. Phone. Yeah, I read that, but I didn’t see anything from Jim, so it was against Jim’s will. That stinks, man, if that’s what they did, you know, and that’s just why, because they’re paying them too much. So I love Ben McDonald. Don’t get
8Nestor Aparicio 48:57
when I heard the news, I thought Jim’s ADM wants to cut down. That is, that is not true. It would be it would, I would be lying to you. Okay, if I reported to you that Jim Palmer wanted his time cut. He did not want his time cut. They cut him. See, you don’t want Jim Palmer doing your games. Yeah? Then you don’t love the
Joel Poiley 49:19
Orioles, yeah. I mean, hell, Jim should be the pitching coach, but I know he doesn’t want to get that involved, and you probably get disgusted working with those guys. Alright,
Nestor Aparicio 49:27
look, listen, they’re still going to be in last place in a couple of weeks. I’ll reach back to you at football season here, and I hope to get down to Tampa and enjoy some sunshine down there and see some of my buddies, like Pete Williams and Rick Vaughn. Look me up, man. I had a great a good time when I was there. My mother in law’s down there, so maybe I get down there and get some my favorite turd ducking down there on the tamiyama Trail. He is, Joey. See, I know my way around Sarasota a little bit. You know, I was hoping that they were going to be nice to me, Joel and I could come down there, get a condo with you every March and kind of hang out the way Jerry Coleman does, and just. Run around and act like a baseball goof and do my show and whatever. But I don’t know. I was really hoping, after Angelo’s all of that would be my destiny. I could be an Aparicio again, but it that’s not, that’s not been what I’ve been greeted with, and it’s very, very unfortunate, not just for me, but for my audience. And I know you’re one of them, and I love you, and I appreciate
Joel Poiley 50:19
8that, man. I appreciate you having me on promoting the book. And again, hold
Nestor Aparicio 50:23
up your book. It’s Father’s Day. Let’s sell some books, damn it. Let’s go and in
Joel Poiley 50:27
letting me vent, you know, because I am, I’m a fan, and what’s happening with the o’s really, really hurts
Nestor Aparicio 50:33
when you start naming a 74 rotation and get Rudy may in there. Man, I mean, Torres wasn’t here yet. Holtzman, none of that had happened yet, but, I mean, you know what? So, so I’m going to give you this piece before I go without it. I hope I don’t cry when I say it to you. But I attended two funerals last Thursday, Jim Henneman in the afternoon, and I was close with Jimmy, you know, 40 years ago, and I hadn’t talked to him much in recent times, but my rock star buddy Mike Peters died from the alarm. And one of it was the most beautiful funeral I have ever I couldn’t stop sobbing. And I sobbed three different times because I had to stop it on the stream to go to Henneman funeral. And I went up watching it later at night, over over a margarita and and I caught the dust in the air all over again, but the beginning of his, of his funeral, it said, in life, you find your people. This was the minister said this in Wales. And you know, in that Welsh, you find your people. And I’m like you find your people. So, you know the Orioles we it’s who we are. I’m an Aparicio you’re a baseball head. Find our people, right? Exactly? Tom Maddie, we find our people. I
8Joel Poiley 51:46
know, I know we got to go, but I’ve thought about this, we could have worked together under John, because you were already there when they were you there when they folded or you left. I had
Nestor Aparicio 51:58
left. I left in May. I they folded in May. I left in January of 80
Joel Poiley 52:01
because remember, I told you he had interviewed me, like six months before they folded. So you would have been the young buck. I would have been the young vet, and we would have kicked some reporting tail. Brother Hurst would have funded
Nestor Aparicio 52:15
it. No spot, all right. He is Joel poily. Um, if you can go get some citizen, Kane, you got plenty of time on your hands if you’re watching the Orioles out on the west coast as well. Uh, Joel’s written the book. Last Man Standing on Tom. Matty, please go buy it anywhere good books are sold. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. I wish they’re in first place, but they’re in last place. Change thyselves. Orioles, fix this so we can talk better things in the future. Yeah.
