Yeah, this pic is Steven Tyler and the interview is with Joe Perry but the modern Toxic Twins were in the middle of a glorious second run as one of the greatest bands in the world when Nestor Aparicio was the music critic for The Evening Sun in Baltimore. This is the story of how the train kept ‘a rolling on the best comeback in the history of rock and roll.
Nestor Aparicio reflects on his early career in journalism, recounting his first interview with Aerosmith’s Tom Hamilton in 1985 and later with Joe Perry in 1990. Perry discusses the band’s comeback, sobriety, and the impact of drugs on their career. He highlights the success of the “Pump” album, the challenges of touring, and the evolution of their setlist. Perry also touches on the creation of the song “Fine,” collaborating with Desmond Child, and the band’s efforts to avoid writing another “Angel.” The conversation also covers Aerosmith’s fan base, their physical demands, and the role of their manager, Tim Collins, in their resurgence.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Aerosmith comeback, Joe Perry interview, sobriety journey, Pump album, Desmond Child, power ballads, tour challenges, fan base, physical performance, drug issues, band unity, Tim Collins, financial struggles, setlist changes, rock industry
SPEAKERS
Joe Perry, Nestor Aparicio
8
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Welcome back wnst TAs in Baltimore and wn st.net. It is wnst Rock week. Appreciate you checking out some of my audio vault stuff of music over 25 years on radio, we’re celebrating our 25th anniversary in December, and before I ever did radio, I talked to rock stars for a living, back in the 1980s and early 90s at the first Baltimore news, American and then the Baltimore Sun. This next interview sort of spans the time and the time frame and one of the iconic, great bands of all time, Aerosmith. And this interview is with Joe Perry, the guitar player from from Aerosmith, but at one point I want to give the beginning of my music fandom and career. I was sitting in the Baltimore news American newsroom in the summer of 1984 I was 15 years old. I had been working there for about eight months, and sports first had folded, and I because the sports department was so large and there was a whole separate newspaper being put out by sports people, the interns and the low leaves like the 15 year old kid working for free and answering the phones in the newsroom and running copy up and down steps and getting lunch for editors over at the new harbor place That was only about four years old at that point. And I was in the entertainment area, and a guy named Scott LaBar, who was a long time editor at the Sacramento Bee, been there now 30 years. Been there, ever since he left at news American. And he turned to me, and he just took a shine to me being a kid who liked music. And he said, Have you ever heard of Aerosmith? And I said, Yeah, he said, guy named Steven Tyler is going to be calling here in about an hour. You think you could work some questions up and put together a little story on Aerosmith? And I said, Yeah, I can do that. Of course, I can do that. And as it turned out, an hour later, when the phone rang, it was not Steven Tyler, it was Tom Hamilton, the bass player from Aerosmith. And I did interview Tom Hamilton, and the pictures that you have seen on the hashtag wnst Rock week. And if you follow me out on Facebook or Instagram or Twitter, Snapchat or anywhere and LinkedIn, even, there is a picture of a an incredibly young version of me standing backstage with a drink with Steven Tyler, and that picture was taken at the Baltimore Arena in early 1985 I was 15 years old at the time, and I guess that’s where the almost famous parts of my references come. And sometimes I use that hashtag for the movie that Cameron Crowe made famous. But if you’ve seen those pictures of that era with Kevin Cronin from REO Speedwagon or Gary rich with from REO Speedwagon, or Brad Whitford from Aerosmith, as well as Tom Hamilton from Aerosmith. But the Steven Tyler picture is pretty cool. It’s one of my favorites. I was a chunky little monkey, or, as Steve Hedgepeth used to write in the news, American and oval teen. At that time, that was 1985 by 1990 Aerosmith had dried out come back. Angel was a hit, and the album pump was a massive, massive album for them, with many, many hits, and still to this day, more than a quarter of a century later, many of those songs played they had famously sobered up during this interview. Joe Perry talks about sobriety and the importance of sobriety for Aerosmith and how drugged up the band was. This is a very, very frank conversation, and, quite frankly, much better than I thought it was in my memory. You know, it’s taken me 25 years to listen to any of these interviews, so I’m doing it for the first time, 25 years into my radio career. This, I think, is one of my better ones. It’s still as awkward as all of the rest of them. It was very awkward thing. I was 21 years old. This is the summer of 1990 july 28 1990 Aerosmith played at the Capitol center on the second time through on the pump album. You know, pump had probably had six hits at this point, and there really I love the song, fine. If you want to Google the acronym, acronym for F I N, E, effed up, insecure, neurotic and emotional. Everything about you is so f i n, e, fine. And I had to ask Joe Perry about that song. And I did, because I love the song. I asked him about Desmond Child who dates back to kiss, and I talked to Desmond about Desmond Child at length with Jon Bon Jovi in our chat. At that point, I still have never met Desmond Child or Adam on the show. That would be a dream of mine to have talked to Desmond Child in his prime. And I guess the thing that stands out from this Joe Perry interview is his accent, his incredible, incredible knowledge of the radio industry and terms like AOR and CHR, which contemporary hits radio and AOR was out more oriented rock and radio airplay. And it’s amazing to me that even at 21 I really steered this conversation toward the business of being in a band and the the emotions with. In a band, and the drugs with being in a band. And so the interview with Tom Hamilton happened in January. They played the Baltimore Civic Center at that time, January 7, 1985 and then this interview was about five and a half years later, and they were one of the biggest bands in the world. They had made a full comeback from the Toxic Twins era. And I’m very, very proud of this conversation with Joe Perry. I think you’re going to dig it. It’s an incredible chat about drugs, about going away, about drying out, and about being great. Joe Perry wanted to be great. We also talked about power ballads at that time in the song, what it takes that I still love and pump is a comeback album. So I never interviewed Stephen Tyler. I met Stephen Tyler and have a picture Tyler, but I did interview Tom Hamilton in 85 which I don’t have a copy of. And I did interview Joe Perry in 1990 and I hope you take this conversation about The Joe Perry Project and many more things pump from the summer of 1990 with Joe Perry of Aerosmith, yes.
Joe Perry 06:03
Joe Perry, Hey,
Nestor Aparicio 06:04
how are you good? Probably little late. You got a
Joe Perry 06:10
8million to do today. This is the only one I have. But I have,
Nestor Aparicio 06:16
I can imagine show days usually, what are you in some great place in Midwest, or something
Joe Perry 06:21
Chicago. We plan in
Nestor Aparicio 06:24
Chicago the horizon, the new
8Joe Perry 06:27
place called the world.
Nestor Aparicio 06:32
Oh, really. So how are things going on this second Leg Sweep here? Well,
Joe Perry 06:38
I actually going pretty bad, because every time we play outdoors, it rains. It’s been one of those summers. Seems like you wake up and it’s sunny out. We must be playing indoors. You know?
Nestor Aparicio 06:52
8We had the same problem here. I go to Merriweather a lot, and it’s just rain there all the time. Yeah, I guess it’s good for the farmers. Yeah,
Joe Perry 07:01
it’s great for the farmers. Bad for the shows. So we’ll probably be doing, I’m glad we’re playing in Landover.
Nestor Aparicio 07:08
Well, a lot of the bands have shows, I think there this year, for some reason, as far as the show, what kind of things you doing differently than you did
Joe Perry 07:20
in December recently? Let’s see. What are we going to do different? We’re going to do some different songs.
8Nestor Aparicio 07:27
I know that what have you dropped and what have you what have you kept you drop any like, how
Joe Perry 07:31
long has it been since Virginia eight,
Nestor Aparicio 07:33
almost seven, seven and a half, eight months?
Joe Perry 07:35
8Oh, well, definitely was. That’s different, way different. So I don’t know what we’ve changed, but you know, we’re doing other side now and young lost and love me two times,
07:49
the doors love me two times. Yeah,
Joe Perry 07:50
we’re doing, I don’t know, like every night we do some different old songs, like last night we did two nights ago. We did one way street. Still
Nestor Aparicio 08:01
do mama can and rats in the cellar and that kind of stuff. Well, we do sometimes
8Joe Perry 08:05
we do my can. Sometimes we do same old song and dance. Sometimes, you know, it depends on what we did moving out the other night to last child. No, we didn’t. We’ve been doing the last shot a lot, so we, we’ve dropped that from the set. But, you know, I don’t know. We have the basic thing, you know, and we’ve got we do it almost every song off in the record.
Nestor Aparicio 08:27
You do Angel now or No, you’ve never done that on this
Joe Perry 08:31
tour. No, we do it. Sometimes we change it around. You know, I
Nestor Aparicio 08:34
8just remember you guys had a thing like at the end of the tour last tour, where you weren’t doing it, yeah,
Joe Perry 08:38
we got tired of playing it. You know, we’ve done it. We do it once in a while on this tour, enough people ask us to meet and greet before the show, we put it in. Hard
Nestor Aparicio 08:49
to get motivated at this point. I mean, when you’re so far into a tour, no,
Joe Perry 08:53
because we’re throwing in new stuff. I mean, we just started doing take me to the other side about two weeks ago, and we started doing love me two times last week, and we keep putting in the old songs. You know what? I mean, you know, just doing the songs off the new record, it’s still gas, you know, I haven’t gotten, you know, they haven’t gotten played for me yet. So it’s in the band’s playing tighter. I mean, I swear it’s getting better. You know,
8Nestor Aparicio 09:19
you think you’d have so much same power with his album? I mean, well,
Joe Perry 09:27
taken to the other side, just went number one, right? Number one in AOR, and that’s four for the album. That’s more than anybody’s done, I guess. And you know, we’re hoping it’ll get in the top 10 in CHR, and that’ll be, that’ll be great. And then after that we’re doing, they’re releasing me two times the single because of that movie. It’s coming out in that Air America movie. I didn’t know that. Yeah, it’s gonna be, gonna be in the album. So whatever happened
Nestor Aparicio 09:57
to fine? Why did it get buried the. Far as, as far as radio play. I mean, what last time I saw you here? I remember they were playing it a little bit, but it was the time when Jamie’s got a gun was, yeah,
Joe Perry 10:07
8you know, what happens is CHR, whatever CHR is playing. Usually AOR has already played it, you know. So they like to do, like a two prong thing, you know, the AOR station something to play when play when the CHR thing is cooking. So and also, finally, I don’t think would have ever made it to CHR, just too hard, you know. So I think we had a good run on that. It did get released as a signal,
Nestor Aparicio 10:36
as far as putting us all like fine together, how do these things happen? Just Just, just just elaborate on that song in particular, because I think that’s, that’s the song that pretty much brings you back to where you were in 1976
Joe Perry 10:46
well, that song basically started on this guitar that I have that has a kind of weird tuning, and that riff was just something that I the basic core of the song is something I had for This album. You know, I was one of the first things I wrote, and then exactly where that’s, you know, that’s just some, you know, stream of consciousness stuff, you know, he just kind of went loose with and then we had, we had been working with Desmond Child on just some different songs, you know, that we were doing during the course of that, we wrote this chorus, you know, just a really good hunk of chords, you know, and it really made a really good chorus. And we needed a chorus for fine. So we took one of those bits, plugged it in, and it worked out really well. Desmond wasn’t even there when we wrote it, when we put it into fine and everything. So he didn’t even know we used it until we called him up, you know, and said, Hey, by the way, Desmond, you know that course we had for blah, blah, blah. Well now it’s the course and fine,
Nestor Aparicio 12:02
inevitably, I’m going to write a story on Desmond Child, because I was just talking to Paul Stalin last week. We had dinner and we were talking about Desmond Child, and I said, here’s the guy’s name who pops up on every rock hit the past 15 years, and no one even knows what he looks like. Tell me about Desmond Child.
8Joe Perry 12:20
Well, he’s definitely,
Nestor Aparicio 12:26
can you hang on? I have a son at the door. Okay, okay, I’m back. I’m back. Just talking about Desmond. Well,
Joe Perry 12:35
he’s in the 60s, you know what? I mean, wow, a child, but he’s really got a he’s really got a real gift for songs. I mean, he’s one of those guys that I think will eventually write really, you know, great movie scores and stuff. He’s really got it in here for the hooks and the choruses. You know, how old is he? He’s
12:57
8my
Joe Perry 13:00
age. He’s in his late 30s.
Nestor Aparicio 13:03
Okay, well, I had no idea, and I’ve I want to talk to him. I don’t even know how to get in touch with him. But besides that, on what it takes, did you guys plan to write a ballad or
Joe Perry 13:13
Well, what we did was we wanted to write a rock and all song, like, you know, when we sat down, because we didn’t want to write another angel, because everybody’s been doing those commercial power rock ball, rock ballads, with the full blown production and all that stuff. But I think Desmond’s forte, I mean, what? He can write rock songs, and he’s good at it, but I think his best thing, I like the ballads, you know, the kind of like the move, you know, soar and he so we kept falling back into this thing, this groove, that, but it was, but we kept on keeping it like really simple, you know, and the sound of it, In fact, the demo sounds like a country in western song a lot, you know. And we made it not quite so country for the album.
8Nestor Aparicio 14:10
Well, I think the one thing impressed me about is, when I heard it, I said, here’s a song that that’s one of those power rock ballads without being one and without ever having any intention. I just have a feeling that when these bands come out, the in the white lines, all these other bands, I’ve heard, these ballads, they go in and say, well, let’s write the ballast of the album. It’s going to be the first release that’s going to make us stars. You know, yeah. Well, it’s
Joe Perry 14:31
funny, but that used to be in the old days when we when we were in that position, I was just about the only way you got on am radio was you had to have a ballot
14:40
stream on, yeah?
Joe Perry 14:42
8Well, that was like your token ballot that, you know, everybody played hard rock, but you had to have a token ballot that would get you played on the radio, you know. And now, fortunately, I think it’s why it’s opened up, you know. But. Know, back in those days, it was, it hasn’t changed a lot. There are a lot of bands that come out, and they feel they have to have that power ball, because that’s what’s selling, you know. But for us, we just didn’t want to do another angel. I mean, we had done it and, you know, and now we have a whole bunch of angels. What it takes is really a lot of fun. I mean, I really like playing.
Nestor Aparicio 15:30
So as far as going from Done with Mirrors to vacation to pump, why do I see such a big difference there? And there’s three albums, and why is pump? So Aerosmith, when Done with Mirrors, really wasn’t done
Joe Perry 15:42
with mirrors. I think was closer to was pretty close, but it still was. It was us in our second childhood. You know what I mean, our second infancy. You know it’s like we started to learn how to write and work again when we started doing Done with Mirrors. And and I think that it’s just been a really, you know, the process of getting closer to what we’re about. I mean, really, getting our getting our act together, is what it’s been, what’s been happening, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 16:14
did you not trust each other when you had gotten back together? I mean, I saw you guys on the back in the saddle tour when you didn’t have the album out, and Stephen was still, like, having some problems at the time, I think. And I had interviewed Tom, and, you know, we’d done the backstage thing and all kinds of cool stuff. But it just seemed to me that these guys, I don’t know if they’re gonna
8Joe Perry 16:37
make it, still a lot of the old going on, you know, I mean, we we’d hit our bottom, like on the outside a career bottom, but I think that back in the saddle tour brought us, you know, brought us to be really aware that the drugs really had to go, you know. And it was really good that we did that, and then we did it and and when we did done with some mirrors, we were still in that process, you know, of realizing, I mean, we were still, I mean, I was still trying to, like, not drink. I was just drinking on weekends, that kind of, and it still wasn’t working, you know, like, you have to, like, just completely let go of it. We had to let go of it completely. And when that happens for us, then we were able to, like, really start to touch down to what the spirit of the whole thing was. You know,
Nestor Aparicio 17:26
did you guys get help, or was this this cold turkey on your own?
Joe Perry 17:30
Well, we’ve been cold turkey and often on all the years, but I think that to really learn how to stay sober and off drugs, you know, we had to go away. We each went away at different times.
Nestor Aparicio 17:45
8You know? I mean, a lot of people will point to the drugs to say that’s the main reason they got rid of the drugs. Now they’re great again. Do you see it that way?
Joe Perry 17:51
I definitely think that it was big part of it. I mean, 90% of it. I think that, I mean, it was us taking the drugs. It was, it was us, you know what? I mean, it wasn’t like, you know? I mean, it’s easy to see that it was, that it was because we were taking the drugs that it and drinking to excess, that it was keeping us from moving on. That is definitely true, you know. But I think that once you move the drugs, then you have to, like, use what you got, you know? I mean, I see a lot of people that give up, and they have this real woe is me attitude about it, and they don’t move, you know, but I think that that’s where, like continuing the process really helps,
Nestor Aparicio 18:33
knowing that this thing is all publicized, and everybody knows that you guys have had drug problems, that people ever offer you shit again or now. Yeah, well,
Joe Perry 18:40
you know, it’s funny how it’s funny, you know, like we driving by, you know, kids will go, Hey, want a beer, you know, that kind of stuff. You don’t drink beer anymore. Then No, for the most part, most people that are in the business know that no, and we, you know, nobody comes around.
8Nestor Aparicio 19:01
So as far as your fan base, you’re saying kids and stuff like that. How has this changed since 1975 has just broadened? You think here, I
Joe Perry 19:09
think it definitely has broadened. There’s so many. I mean, we have fans that saw us in 1975 and there are fans that are out there that don’t even know what Get Your Wings is. You know, they’re aware of the last two records, so we have a definite crossover. So
Nestor Aparicio 19:32
coming up on 40 How are you going to feel in September?
Joe Perry 19:36
8I don’t know. I’m going to be on a plane on the way to Osaka, so I’ll probably be jet lagged.
Nestor Aparicio 19:45
You’ll feel like you’re 40. Probably,
Joe Perry 19:49
when I get a jet lag, it feels like I got the worst flu going. I just
Nestor Aparicio 19:51
think it’s amazing how I see 42 year old guys who have lived pretty normal, you know, I guess, sort of sedentary lifestyles and and they’re. They look 42 and then there’s Steven, who has lived the life of 10 drug addicts, probably, and and he can still do all this energetic things on stage. What does he do to sustain this? And what do you do to sustain all
8Joe Perry 20:11
this? Because a lot of it, a lot of what we do is a physical. It’s physical, you know, I’ve seen guys. I mean, I watch, was watching PBS the other day, and there was this 90 year old tap dancer on and he was still doing, he was like, 87 or something. You know, he wasn’t like, all over the place, but he was still moving. And I think that, you know, I think that the human body is really designed to like to do a lot more than people, you know, they move a little and like, oh, I can’t do that. That’s too much. You know what I mean, that’s not, I mean, the human body was made, you know. And I think that, you know, I think that’s a big part of it, you know. I mean, we’ve always been physical, you know, even when we’re, you know, up. And even more now, you know. And I think that has a lot to do with it. A real lot. You ever
Nestor Aparicio 21:02
listen to those old shows when you’re up and to say, Oh, that was bad. I mean, how does, how does a song? How do you do songs now that make it sound so much better than when you were on drugs? I
Joe Perry 21:14
mean, we all play together. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 21:16
8did you ever rehearse and stuff like that when you were, when you were, you know, not sober,
Joe Perry 21:20
oh yeah, all the time. We were using all the time. Wake up in the morning and have a beer. You know what? I mean, it was like that. Or you wouldn’t wake up in the morning because you’d been up all night and you’d see if you could make it through the show the next day. I mean, that’s what we used to do.
Nestor Aparicio 21:37
Well, I guess you go into these arenas now, like Landover, and I’m sure you were completely up there at 1.0 yeah, one of your tours. What is it like going into these places with memories of memories, of memories? That’s one
Joe Perry 21:50
of the things that very, very rarely remember. Remember shows from those days. You know? I mean, I don’t even know if I’d remember if I was sober, but that’s like 10 years ago. You know what I mean, 15 years ago. My memories, you know, once in a while, I remember being there from long ago, but it’s more like what’s going on now.
8Nestor Aparicio 22:10
So when this reunion all happened and, you know, getting back to the back in the saddle tour, and they’re done with mirrors, I mean, what held this thing together? You know, who was the person telling the line saying, look, we got to get together here. Who was the one that started this whole thing, as far as well. I mean, who told you to get sober? I mean, like, and who told Steven to get sober? It just all these people. It’s all up in five different areas. I mean, how did you guys decide to do it?
Joe Perry 22:39
Tim Collins, guy who was managing me when we when I was in the project, I
Nestor Aparicio 22:45
remember Collins brass was your management, or something like that, in 84 Collins, and
Joe Perry 22:50
8he went out and he saw, I mean, he was just as bad as the rest of us, you know. And at the end of the back of the saddle tour, actually, it was the end of Done with Mirrors tour
Nestor Aparicio 23:04
with Ted Nugent. You went on that
Joe Perry 23:07
one. He just talked with a few other people outside, and he said, you know, going to go one way or the other. It’s either going to go up, it’s going to go down, you know. And he kind of like brought the reality of that to our attention, you know. And he’s always been kind of, like the rallying point, you
Nestor Aparicio 23:30
know, kind of the father of the situation, keeping you in line. But not really, you
8Joe Perry 23:34
know what I mean, he’s, in fact, he’s younger than I am, but, you know, he’s the one that went out and searched out the people that we needed.
Nestor Aparicio 23:47
Where were you at the point when you came back to the back of the saddle tour? Me, as far as like financially and back in the saddle tour. I mean, did you have any money at that point, or had it all been pissed away?
Joe Perry 23:59
That has been long gone. It’s like that was my girlfriend, who’s now my wife, was actually paying the rent at that point.
Nestor Aparicio 24:11
8So everything you’d have in the 70s,
Joe Perry 24:14
just about I had a few guitars left.
Nestor Aparicio 24:17
It’s funny, because I kind of equate you with Kiss, because I grew up with you, you know, these two bands with the eight tracks, old eight tracks. And just talking to Paul last week, I just said, you know, could that money have dried up? And he said, you know, ask some of the other bands, 70s, if it could dry up. And Donald Trump could dry up, anybody can dry up. So
Joe Perry 24:37
it’s just just funny. You know what? I mean, you just want, especially when you’re making, like, really stupid decisions, and spending so much money on limousines and having limousines drive your drug dealers around. It’s stupid and it finally, you know, just doesn’t work.
8Nestor Aparicio 24:59
Well you are. Now you’re all right now, then that’s good. All right. Well, I guess I’ll bump into you at some point next weekend, and I appreciate you talking today. I couldn’t get to you guys back in December. Thanks a lot, Joe. Take care. You.
