John Harbaugh gets the last laugh and a $100 million honeymoon in New York – for now

Longtime columnist and football author Ian O’Connor attended last week’s coronation of John Harbaugh as the new head coach of the New York Football Giants and tells Nestor why Big Blue has high expectations and a low recent bar for the former Baltimore Ravens leader. A fresh start for Harbs in The Big Apple leaves many questions on this side of the ball.

Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss John Harbaugh’s transition from the Baltimore Ravens to the New York Giants. O’Connor highlights Harbaugh’s success with the Ravens, including two Super Bowl wins, and his potential to revitalize the struggling Giants. They note Harbaugh’s preference for reporting directly to ownership rather than a general manager, reflecting his desire for control. O’Connor believes Harbaugh’s track record and leadership will be crucial for the Giants’ success, despite the challenges of New York’s media and the team’s recent poor performance. They also touch on the importance of analytics and player development in modern NFL coaching.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Run the five-day ‘cup of soup’ charity shows beginning next Monday at Lexington Market for the Maryland Food Bank, including coordinating candy cane cash giveaways and promoting sponsors (Maryland Lottery).
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Write a personal ‘Dear John’ exit letter addressing experiences and issues described with the Ravens organization.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Schedule and produce a segment to ‘get together’ with one of John Harbaugh’s mentors (to discuss Jesse Minter/Harbaugh and related topics) for a future show.
• [ ] Research and potentially write a book covering the New York Giants’ five-year period from 2007–2011 (two Super Bowl victories), as a possible future book project.

John Harbaugh’s Transition to the New York Giants

• Nestor Aparicio introduces Ian O’Connor, a longtime New York columnist, and discusses the recent changes in the NFL, including John Harbaugh’s move from the Baltimore Ravens to the New York Giants.
• Ian O’Connor mentions his tenure in New York, starting in the 80s, and the impact of coaches like Parcells and Coughlin on Giants fans.
• Nestor Aparicio reflects on the history of the Giants, mentioning notable players like Eli Manning and the team’s recent struggles.
• Ian O’Connor highlights the Giants’ poor performance over the past 14 years and the team’s decision to hire John Harbaugh, despite his past playoff disappointments.

The Giants’ Desperate Need for a Coach

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the Giants’ desperation for a coach, noting the team’s recent poor performance and the lack of success with previous head coaches.
• Ian O’Connor explains the Giants’ willingness to hire a coach with no head coaching experience, contrasting it with the decision to hire John Harbaugh, who has a proven track record.
• Nestor Aparicio questions the Giants’ strategy, suggesting that the team needed to win the press conference to boost ticket sales and fan confidence.
• Ian O’Connor agrees, noting that the Giants fan base is accustomed to poor performance and would sign up for Harbaugh’s issues over their current struggles.

John Harbaugh’s Deflection and Media Reception

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss John Harbaugh’s tendency to deflect questions, a trait that could be problematic in the New York media.
• Ian O’Connor compares Harbaugh to previous coaches like Brian Daboll, noting that Harbaugh has smaller shoes to fill in terms of media presence.
• Nestor Aparicio shares his experience with Harbaugh, mentioning the coach’s privacy and the challenges of covering him.
• Ian O’Connor reflects on his relationship with Harbaugh, noting that he has to criticize him as a columnist but remains professional.

Harbaugh’s Power Struggle and New York Media Dynamics

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the power dynamics in the Giants’ organization, with Harbaugh insisting on reporting directly to ownership rather than the general manager.
• Ian O’Connor explains the significance of Harbaugh’s demand, noting that it reflects his desire for control and the respect he has for John Mara.
• Nestor Aparicio compares the Giants’ structure to other NFL teams, highlighting the importance of ownership in the success of a coach.
• Ian O’Connor predicts that Harbaugh will eventually gain more control over the team’s operations, similar to his role in Baltimore.

Harbaugh’s Vision for the Giants

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss Harbaugh’s vision for the Giants, including his focus on analytics and player development.
• Ian O’Connor notes that Harbaugh has the support of John Mara and the Mara family, which is crucial for his success in New York.
• Nestor Aparicio reflects on the challenges Harbaugh faced in Baltimore, including ownership issues and the need to adapt to a new market.
• Ian O’Connor believes that Harbaugh’s experience and success in Baltimore will translate well to the Giants, despite the different challenges he will face.

The Impact of Ownership on Coaching Success

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the importance of ownership in the success of a coach, noting that Harbaugh’s move to the Giants is a testament to the respect he has for John Mara.
• Ian O’Connor highlights the differences between the Giants’ ownership and other NFL teams, emphasizing the stability and support provided by the Mara family.
• Nestor Aparicio shares his experiences with various NFL owners, noting the challenges coaches face in different organizations.
• Ian O’Connor predicts that Harbaugh’s relationship with John Mara will be crucial for his success in New York, especially in terms of decision-making and support.

Harbaugh’s Legacy and Future Prospects

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the potential impact of Harbaugh’s move on his legacy, noting that winning a Super Bowl with the Giants would cement his place in NFL history.
• Ian O’Connor believes that Harbaugh’s success in New York will be determined by his ability to develop a strong relationship with the team’s young quarterback, Daniel Jones.
• Nestor Aparicio reflects on the challenges Harbaugh faced in Baltimore, including the need to adapt to new players and systems.
• Ian O’Connor predicts that Harbaugh’s experience and success in Baltimore will translate well to the Giants, despite the different challenges he will face.

The Giants’ Road to Recovery

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the Giants’ road to recovery, noting the importance of winning games and building fan confidence.
• Ian O’Connor believes that Harbaugh’s focus on analytics and player development will be crucial for the team’s success.
• Nestor Aparicio reflects on the challenges the Giants face, including the need to address the team’s roster and improve performance.
• Ian O’Connor predicts that Harbaugh’s leadership and experience will help the Giants overcome their recent struggles and return to prominence.

The Role of Analytics in NFL Coaching

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the growing importance of analytics in NFL coaching, noting that Harbaugh has a strong background in this area.
• Ian O’Connor highlights the role of analytics in player development and decision-making, noting that Harbaugh has been a pioneer in this area.
• Nestor Aparicio reflects on the challenges of integrating analytics into NFL coaching, noting the need for a balance between traditional methods and modern techniques.
• Ian O’Connor believes that Harbaugh’s focus on analytics will be crucial for the Giants’ success, especially in terms of identifying and developing talent.

The Future of NFL Coaching Dynamics

• Nestor Aparicio and Ian O’Connor discuss the future of NFL coaching dynamics, noting the increasing importance of analytics and player development.
• Ian O’Connor believes that coaches like Harbaugh who embrace these modern techniques will have a significant advantage in the league.
• Nestor Aparicio reflects on the challenges of adapting to these changes, noting the need for coaches to stay ahead of the curve.
• Ian O’Connor predicts that the NFL will continue to evolve, with a greater emphasis on analytics and player development in the coming years.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

John Harbaugh, New York Giants, Baltimore Ravens, coaching change, playoff disappointments, Super Bowl, quarterback, ownership structure, media scrutiny, team culture, analytics, coaching experience, fan expectations, press conference, NFL parity.

SPEAKERS

Ian O’Connor, Nestor Aparicio

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Nestor Aparicio  00:00

Hey, welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 tassel, Baltimore. We’re Baltimore positive, getting you through the storm. Hopefully. Dig out on the other side. We’re going to be doing a cup of soup or bowl, beginning next Monday at fade leaves at Lexington market, five days, lots of charities, all for the Maryland Food Bank and all brought to you by friends at the Maryland lottery, you’ll have candy cane cash to give away at some $100 winners. It cost us back before the holidays, back with John Harbaugh was the head coach of the Baltimore Ravens, not the New York football Giants, as well as Jesse Minter was then the defensive coordinator of the Los Angeles chargers, of the Jim Harbaugh’s, and been a busy time for journalists in the Big Apple. This guy’s an old friend of mine, worked in a lot of different places, and writes books on all sorts of things, and has found himself in the middle of the John Harbaugh Big Blue movement up there in New York. It has been something to witness. Ian O’Connor, author, writer and Giants Insider. I guess you know, going back to you, were around for Parcells and like all that, I might date you too much, right?

Ian O’Connor  01:07

Actually, I’m a post Parcells guy, but I just missed them barely. I actually started covering sports in New York in the 80s, but I didn’t start getting around the NFL till right after he left. So yeah, two Super Bowls for him, then two later for Tom Coughlin. Giants fans will sign up for just one with John Harbaugh. We’ll see if he can pull it off.

Nestor Aparicio  01:29

All right, look, man, I mean, my trials and travels with both the hard balls going back to Jimmy in 1998 when he was captain, come back and came into the quarterback, and it’s all in Purple Rain. One by the way, 25th anniversary on Wednesday of ravens, 34 giant seven and a big day in Tampa. So we’ll have a lot of Super Bowl 35 residue here this week as we dig out of the snow. But, I mean, it’s not Jim fossil, right? I mean, you know, and the era of that, and Michael Strahan and Tiki Barber, who I saw doing radio up there. Um, I think it’s hard for me, being Ernie a corsi and George Young and all these Baltimore connections, to think how bad it’s been for the Giants lately. I literally said Eli Manning, because I don’t think of the giants in that light. I think of the giants as you know, just going back to hosted learn Phil Sims has been 40 years of pretty good as giants, but it really hasn’t been the last decade.

Ian O’Connor  02:24

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Oh, really, 14 years. And by the way, I was at that Super Bowl in 2000 2001 and almost felt like the Giants didn’t want the week leading into that Super Bowl to end, because that is the they knew what the Ravens defense was all about deep down on truth serum, I think they realized they were really up against it. That’s the second best defense I’ve ever seen in the NFL, arguably the first maybe, maybe it’s a tie with the 85 bears. But in any event, the Giants, for the last 14 years have been a really bad football team, and that’s a long time in the NFL, a league built around parity to be bad for 95% of the last 14 years, since their last Super Bowl victory over the Patriot so, man, they’ve they’ve swung and missed on four straight head coaches, and they could not Nestor go back to another assistant coach with no head coaching experience. And early in the process, I was actually hearing, right before the season ended, that the Giants were okay going with another coordinator who had never done the job before, and, man, if they did that, they would have gotten killed in this market. So obviously, obviously, Harbaugh is the opposite of that. He’s exactly what would have been interesting if Tomlin and Harbaugh were free agents at the same time, and Tomlin wanted to coach, what would have happened there. But that didn’t happen, and Harbaugh was exactly what they needed. So I think it’s a pretty good marriage.

Nestor Aparicio  03:44

They need it for image, or they need it for reality. In your mind, for a 63 year old coach who hasn’t won a lot of games here, clearly had a quarterback in a situation and a building that I’ve written at length about was his culture. And obviously we can talk about Jesse Minter, what’s going on here, and we’re going to do a lot of that. But watching this from afar, it feels like they’ve won the press conference. They’ve won the pamphlet, literally five minutes for you. Came on, I saw Harbaugh wrote a letter that was pretty much what he wrote to the what he read from the podium that was designed for season ticket holders is the confidence level that do they need help selling tickets there or and obviously, winning games is one thing in the biggest market in the world, but it feels like they really wanted to win the press conference first. And they’ve done that.

Ian O’Connor  04:32

Yeah, they won the press conference before the press conference even started. Nestor, I mean, it was a love fest going in. I knew that was going to happen. And listen. So the ravens, the fan base in Baltimore, their problem with John Harbaugh is playoff disappointments, not winning enough games. But you’re talking to a Giants fan base now that is used to going three and 14 or four and 13, and it’s been unbelievably bad. So they would sign up for those problems. Having an MVP quarterback and losing too early in the playoffs, that is a wonderful problem to have if you’re a Giants fan. I understand it was time for a change. In Baltimore, the Ravens should have a new coach, and John Harbaugh should have a new team, just like in Pittsburgh, it was time for a divorce for both of those franchises and fan bases, and so we’ll see what happens with Jesse Minter and and listen, there’s no guarantee John Harbaugh is going to win a Super Bowl or even come close in New York. And we’ll see if Jackson dart can stay healthy, and they need they have a lot of holes in that roster to fix. Harbaugh was talking a lot with me, and then generally at the presser about what he likes when he or what he liked when he watched the giants on tape. So I asked him afterward, you know, you’ve talked about how much you like the pieces, and Jackson dart in particular, but these guys were four and 13 for a reason. Last year, what did you see on that tape that explained why they were four and 13? And he deflected and said, Listen, it’s the NFL. It comes down to little things in the fourth quarter, and they just didn’t do them. And it’s my job to fix that. But I understand the Raven fan base’s position on Harbaugh. It was time for a change, no question about it. But the giant fan base is looking at it from an entirely different worldview, and they are used to going four and 13. John Harbaugh’s bad years are eight and nine, and that’s what the giants are signing up for.

Nestor Aparicio  06:27

Ian O’Connor is my guest. No one covers that the New York scene better than him and writes books. And I’ll get to your books and do all that stuff, because we’re gonna have a little bit of time digging out here for a little bit. I gotta add in on this, because I’m, you know, I can be a little prickly at my 57 years and 35 years of doing this every day, not like Francesca, but close You said he deflected. Let’s talk about the New York media, because that was the chuckle I got when the Green Bay job might have opened up. Or John could have gone down to Tennessee and worked for the family down there, down to Atlanta, where he could have put a suit on and been Mr. Home Depot corporate CEO guy, like there were different jobs here, and the quarterback was attractive, but I know John and his wife, and I know their privacy issues, and I know John wants to tackle the world, and his brother’s out in LA, and he wants to go to the Hall of Fame, and he needs a quarterback to do that, and they were going to give him $100 million and Steve was going to get off the hook. And the hook, and John wanted to work in. Tomlin didn’t, and all that. But I look at John Harbaugh and dude, I’ve been doing this since I was a kid. I mean, hockey, baseball, soccer, big coaches, little coaches, important coaches. Davey Johnson, you know? I mean, I’ve covered it all. Buck everything, right? He deflected. You said to me, and I’m thinking, how’s deflecting and being dishonest and all the things that John did here, how’s it gonna like the New York media thing? To me, where is that in the modern era, you’re the one there. It feels very sequestered these days for everybody, kind of like international soccer, where the coaches come out, they disappear, and the Ian’s and the hard balls don’t get to know anybody each other, the way the lupica’s did with the parcels, or even Peter kings back in the day, or whatever. It’s weird, but he deflected. You’ve already said in the first questioning, you’ve asked him, he’s gonna deflect, deflect and and in New York, I don’t know. Can he get away with that anymore?

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Ian O’Connor  08:18

You win. You have to win. Now. Brian Dabel was terrible publicly at the podium and news conferences. He gave you absolutely nothing if you were a Giants fan or a media member. So it’s not like he’s got big shoes to fill. He’s not following any charismatic personality in New York as head coach of the giants. Very small shoes to fill. Now, you’d have to educate me. I’ve never covered pub on a daily basis. I’ve written a few features about him, one for espn.com 10 years ago, when I that’s how I got to know him, a little bit. Went to his house for a few hours. We shot hoops, we played shuffleboard, we did a long interview, and we’ve just stayed in touch via text occasionally. Frankly, I didn’t even know if he knew what I looked like I remembered I had to kind of introduce myself to him at the press conference, so, but we have stayed in touch, and I’ve liked him from afar, but, and this has happened to me in New York as a columnist many times. At some point I’m going to have to rip them, and then when i Good luck the day after that, dude, good luck, right? That’s all I’m so I was gonna say, you have to educate me. Tell me when, oh,

Nestor Aparicio  09:24

my god, I’d have to come on your show. I mean, I’ve written tombs about it. First off, I don’t have a press credential anymore, after 32 years that Chad Steele got involved and John said he was good. So, like, there’s a lot I have more lies in my phone I can hold up for you. And I’m going to be writing my own Dear John letter, my exit letter. I want to hear what Minter has to say, because clearly, look the Justin Tucker thing here, for real, the Ray Rice thing here, and the amount of lies after that, there was a Wembley knee in between, and then there’s just John versus Lamar, and who won the battle? Lamar won the battle. There’s no doubt about that. John got a raise. He got. Steve off the hook. I mean, I and that being said, if the ball sales through the middle, the Ravens could still be playing this week like so there’s all of that with John here. But I think for Steve, seeing the stadium empty out the last six months, five, six games, the blown leads late, whether that sticks to John or not. And John was never the guy that could go out in two minute offense and call plays for Lamar to earn that sort of confidence. He was never that coach here. But when it comes to John, for me, I think John money changes people. Power changes people which brings me to my next point with you, the hang up of that 48 hours where John took the job. John’s got the job. John’s agents out telling everybody, Brian Hart, we got the job. Got and John’s had the Italian meal, and you’ve written about it, and everybody’s written and then there was the power play of Who do I report to again, that they hadn’t worked that out. And I really found that to be fascinating, because John stood on the table with me on more than occasions, and I can that I have a hand that I am missing half a finger, and talked about his coordinators. John fired cam Cameron in the middle of a Super Bowl run. And had to when I wrote the book about it Purple Rain, to say, I hire my coaches. Steve can never tell me. And in the end, the word was, Steve didn’t like the coaches, and John was responsible for the coaches. And when it comes to reporting in New York, and you can speak to this, the mayors have had a different structure for a long time, as far as Ernie, of course, he getting reported to from Jim fossil and George Young and Bill Parcells and like all of that, going back for generations. And the modell structure was weird here, that art thought of himself as the General Manager in that Jerry Jones kind of way. But John had a problem, and there was a negotiation issue on on power, right? And I’ve always seen that as being something that’s interesting in the Owings Mills building, especially post Ozzy, as to where the power is going to be, because I think it’s in dicostus corner now here, but clearly in New York, John’s the king, right?

Ian O’Connor  12:02

Oh yeah, he’s the king here. And I’ll be honest with you, Nestor, I was a little surprised when I learned that he reported directly to bishati. And so when you’re going from a winning organization like the ravens to a losing organization like the Giants, you’re not going to take a lesser role in that power structure. So he had to report to John Marra. Obviously, the Giants have never allowed the head coach to report to a general manager, but John had all the leverage in this negotiation, and there was no reason for him to give that up. So I don’t blame him at all for saying I’m not going to report to a GM who’s 13 and 38 in his last three years and oh, by the way, how does he How is he still employed? I don’t know how many organizations would still employ Joe Shane. He’s lucky. He works with John Marin, Steve Tisch, who are people who look for reasons to keep employees rather than terminate them. So and we’ll see how this relationship with Joe Shane plays out. Is it going to be a partnership the equal of the one he had with Ozzy Newsome and di Costa? I don’t know, I would think it’s probably a bit of a long shot, but I do know, I talked to Harbaugh after he met with spoke with Joe Shane, and he said, I feel like I can work with this guy, so we’ll see how it plays out. But I’m not going to knock him for pushing the Giants to the brink on Saturday while still talking to the Titans on the side for that structure, he needed that you can’t have a coach with his record 180 regular season victories, some disappointments in the playoffs, obviously, but he’s won a Super Bowl. The Giants have never hired a Super Bowl winning coach before. You can’t have that guy report to a GM in the last year of his contract, who’s 13 and 38 in his last three years. I’m sorry, you just can’t have that. And if I were him, I wouldn’t have taken the job either, until John marrot on Saturday said, yes, we’ll do this for you. Now he’s got to win. Now comes the hard part in taking a four and 13 team. And he said he told me on the phone a half hour after he agreed to the deal, he expects to be in the playoffs next year, and that’s the expectation. Now, he said it publicly. And do I think they can go 10 and seven next year and win a wild card round game? You know, the NFL? You saw it this year in New England, Jacksonville and Chicago, with the right head coach. I do believe that it was time to go in Baltimore. I understand your perspective. I understand Baltimore’s perspective on him and that it was time for a new head coach, without question. If I were a Ravens fan, I probably would have felt the same way. But look at it from the Giants perspective, it’s been horrible here for a long time, and you now have a coach coming in who has won 61% of his games, and that’s a pretty good thing if you’re the New York Giants.

Nestor Aparicio  14:41

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Ian O’Connor is my guest. Love talking football with Ian. I’m going to talk some books with you in a minute, but I want to keep going with this hardball is already wearing the black hat. I know Ronnie Barnes through my work with Ed block, who was a longtime trainer there and there. When you keep employees a long time and you come in and. Got a place, and you start firing people. You wear the black hat right away, seeing that in all sorts of ways, all sorts of organizations with ownership changes and whatnot, the notion of analytics, and the notion that, dude, you just got $100 million of course, you’re going to run the building like and whether the mayor is really no football or modern football. What a modern building looks like. John has the HAR ball perspective on that, the bishati and Ozzie and, I guess, Eric perspective on that getting out around the league, and whatever his brother had in San Francisco. And now has and friends Andy Reid and people that John would trust just what happened in Buffalo the McDermott way is Andy Reid way, which is the hardball way, which I will buy into. John never minds wearing the black hat, especially if giants.com can seal it up that it’s a good thing and a good opinion. I don’t again, the New York media things really weird to me, that John stepping into that and is going to own that. But there’s also no king of New York sports. And you know, the Knicks certainly don’t own it. The Rangers the island to go around the Mets, the Yankee, there’s an opportunity here for him to really Knight himself. If he can get Jackson dart in the next three years, can play in a Super Bowl, or get them back to some level of glory in that way. How much needs to be changed there? Do the mayors, know football, I mean, like and as John, and maybe this is my question. As John gets grayer and older, and his dad had the background, and his brother in Michigan and all that stuff, maybe John is the president of football operations, you know, to mint a Jesse Minter type of coach three, four years. So now John wants to go into that capacity, because it feels like he’s going to hire the general manager before this is all over. With make book on that, you know, you and I get together. Two years from now, John will be running the whole place. Because I think that’s when you pay somebody $100 million that’s what you expect

Ian O’Connor  16:50

them to do. Giants have never been a coach driven organization. So you look at the Patriots now, okay, Mike Vrabel is driving that operation without question and to their benefit. So could I see that? Listen, it’s already happening. He fired Kevin Abrams, who was a front office executive for 30 plus years, and Giants fans have actually complained a lot about this protected class of employees inside that building, old school. Mara family way that have survived regime after regime and all the losing, and they’re still there in these positions. They were actually supportive of some of the moves that John has made this week. So believe it or not, it’s been popular now. Ronnie Barnes is an institution. He wasn’t fired. He will no longer be the head athletic trainer. He’ll still oversee that position, overseeing all of medical services for the Giants. And so I think John actually did a smart thing there. He understood that Ronnie Barnes is an institution. He was there before LT and Phil Sims, so he kept them, but just said, Hey, I need to bring my own head trainer in here. So let’s respect Ronnie Barnes and find a way to do both things, and he did, so there’ll be more moves to come, and if you think that he’ll be running the entire building in a couple of years, John Mara is right now in a really serious fight with cancer, and so we all hope and pray that he gets through that and is on The planet another 30 years, and is running the Giants, as he has with dignity for a long time. But you know, listen, if there is any stalemate with the draft, with free agency, with with anything regarding that roster, John Harbaugh is going to win, until proven otherwise, if he doesn’t win as a head coach, then what you just said won’t be true halfway into this contract, if the giants are still under 500 with him, we’ll see about that. But so he does have to keep up his end of the bargain, and that is again he established the standard for this year is making the playoffs. Obviously, if they go eight and nine, Giants fans will be pretty thrilled with that, as long as year two is 11 and six and we’re winning playoff games, so he has to hold up his end of the bargain for him to get the kind of power in two to three years that you’re talking about. I’ll go

Nestor Aparicio  19:14

back, I guess, to the beginning of all of this. You’ve covered football a long time. I’m not surprised by much, but dude, I Mike Tomlin left me tickets because the Steelers want to be in the building in Pittsburgh three weeks ago. So I sat in the stands and I watched the ball sail out on a 22 degree day, and I walked back to my car up the hill by the Taco Bell, where we park in Pittsburgh, and I waited for Luke to get out of the locker room, and I watched the post game on my phone and and I swear to you that we’re less than a month out on that, right? We’re only three weeks, less than three weeks out on that, you and me, it feels like three months ago in human terms, and as much movement as there’s been with coaches, I mean going down to McDermott, I mean all the way through, who knows, Monday morning, you know, after championship games. But in my. Mind i i didn’t look at hardball. Is going to be in New York by now, and I’m going to have Ian on. Tomlin is going to be doing television. Everybody’s going to be looking for a seat. The ravens are going to bring in Minter, like I had it. It’s been a whole tapestry for a lot of franchises and a lot of fans above and beyond. Denver playing with a backup quarterback, and what’s really going on on the field, which used to be sort of my focus, this time of year, it’s been kind of white hot the last couple of weeks for changes. You’ve been at this a long time. Are you shocked that John Harbaugh got axed? Bang, boom, boom, and he’s in a press conference, Big Blue, in the blue suit with the right time, because it’s been wild watching it here after 20 years of him here.

Ian O’Connor  20:40

Kind of funny, Nestor, I wrote a column before the end of the season saying this giant’s coaching search is going to look very underwhelming and uninspiring, unless that search gets a few lucky breaks out of the AFC north now I knew the fan or I thought Stefanski would get fired, and then I said what the Giants need is one of the two Pittsburgh or Baltimore jobs to open up. I thought there was a chance. I didn’t know if it’s going to be Harbaugh or Tomlin, but not both. I said, the best the giant fan could hope for is two lucky bounces out of the AFC north where Stefanski is a pretty good fallback option. And sure enough, all three happened. Now Tomlin took himself out of the coaching, end of it. But yeah, John Harbaugh being there, and I did speak to him two days after he got fired, and it was clear on the phone. He was like, Yeah, I want to be the coach of the giants. And that never changed. And that was coming from his dad. It was coming from a lot of people around him saying, it’s the New York Giants. Do you really? I mean, no offense to the Tennessee Titans or the Atlanta Falcons or Arizona even Cleveland is boyhood team, or the dolphins who have their own history, just it’s the New York Giants. And I think the idea, too, of winning a championship there, and what that would mean to his legacy, to become the first person to do it in two different franchises, was very appealing in the biggest market in the league, but I remember thinking out loud, and I think I might, I probably said it to him as Atlanta gave him the best chance to win the division next year, because that division was just one with an eight, nine record. Giants aren’t going to win the division next year with the Eagles in it, but they can maybe get a wild card, if they’re lucky. And but he was, I think, I think a question asked is, if the buffalo job was open before he said yes to the Giants, what would he have done? Would he have gotten involved with the bills and gone up to coach? Josh Allen, will you have a chance to win the Super Bowl right away, versus the lure of New York? What would he have done? Curious to know, what you think would he What would he have picked in that scenario,

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Nestor Aparicio  22:41

you know, what man seeing the pago’s on stage, and seeing how baffled they look, in a general sense, and the thought that he would be opening a stadium there. I mean, they have, they have to sell something in Buffalo. And I think I’ve been here for that, when we lost the Colts, tried to win the ravens, you know, you know, drafting Lamar was about that, I think, around here, and sort of saving face in whatever generational way, every 10 years, every franchise, Kansas City is gonna have to rebuild it when it’s all over with, and figure it out the way New England has right and the way Pittsburgh’s good luck to them. Um, I, you know, I think John landed exactly where John was going to land, that with a suit on and all that, that being said, and I’ll I can conclude with this for now with you, because I love getting together with you. Jackson Dart. Jackson darts the thing, right? Like, the reason he didn’t go to Atlanta wasn’t Mr. Blank, or the corporate job he could hang with all of that, and the crappy division and playing in the dome Green Bay would have been ideal for him. Something Midwestern. The Cleveland job would have been great if it weren’t so terrible, and Cleveland, I thought Cleveland would come after him and say, John, you want 2% of it. We’ll give you the Tom Brady deal. We’ll give you. You come here. You love the browns. Growing up, fix the browns. Open our new stadium and own a piece of the team. I thought that the Browns could come really because they do stupid stuff. Look at their quarterback. So, you know buffalo, I think John would survive better there, and would really have power there with baffled ownership. I think the Giants thing, I agree with you. And I think getting out of the conference with his brother was also, I know John Well, and it was brother, well, he wanted to be in different conferences. His brother would have preferred it a different way than going into the same conference, but he got the of all of this man, John came out of this smelling great, but the thing I said to you the New York media eating him up, just win, and the only way he’s going to win is if this kid can play.

Ian O’Connor  24:37

He looked at him and really liked him on tape, and obviously liked him better than pennix in Atlanta, and may have liked him better than cam ward in Tennessee. I don’t know. I never asked him that question. I know he’d like both, but I remember saying to Chris Marra, who is running point for ownership in the pursuit of John Harbaugh with his brother sick. And I asked him, or I said to. Them if buffalo opens up. No, I’m sorry if Green Bay opens up before the floor was that was decided. I said, You guys are cooked on John Harbaugh, and he said, I wouldn’t bet on that if I were you, because the Giants had met with him already. Chris Marra had met with him, and they came away thinking, this guy wants to be a New York giant period, full stop. And I think they’re right. I actually, I, if I had to put money on it, I think he still would have taken the Giants job over Josh Allen and buffalo. Because even though you have a chance right away to win the Super Bowl, the expectation is that in year one here, he’s got a chance to maybe he’s got a honeymoon that’s going to last at least a year, if not two. He can, he’s 63 can sort of spend the last 10 years with this young quarterback. And I actually think he might have picked the Giants over buffalo. But anyway, well, it’s a role.

Nestor Aparicio  25:52

I mean, I can speak to this, knowing so many of the coaches in the league who you work for matters and Marvin being able to hang on. And I’m closer to Marvin than I am anybody 20 years with the Brown family, not everybody can manage that relationship. I had dinner with Mike Tomlin and Mr. Rooney at one of the owners meetings, and it was amazing to see their relationship over just a conversation, just a meal for an hour, and knowing what Arthur Blank represents, because I know Mike Smith real well, and I know Jim Schwartz were well, who interviewed there that you go into a tower and you go up to the top and you sit in the boardroom, it’s a completely different experience than it is having Steve bishati from the yacht club down in Florida angry on the phone at midnight, like which I know John dealt with a lot of that, because I know Brian dealt With a lot of that. And thinking like the Tennessee situation, nobody really believes she knows what she’s doing. The Cleveland situation, we’re pretty sure they don’t know what they’re doing. That’s been the question in Chicago for a generation. Ownership, ownership, ownership. And the buffalo thing this week is really, really exposing of the pegola family and John found a place where, like it feels to me, and I met Mr. Mayor, and I hope he’s well as well. They might have a, you know, top 10% sane ownership, the Giants, over a over a lifetime, is they don’t do wacky stuff. And at least for that, John sleeping, John’s life’s going to be way better working for the Mara family than it was certainly at the end, or maybe even at the beginning of the middle with Steve. I mean, like, literally, it’s a tough job working for billionaires, man. I mean, and, and even when you’re making $20 million a year, it’s it’s up all night job, whether you’re in New York or whether you’re in Green Bay

Ian O’Connor  27:40

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watching, and it did help that he knew John marrow some from their competition committee issues that they dealt with. And he told me that on the phone again two days after,

Nestor Aparicio  27:50

there was a relationship there. And maybe not with blank, maybe not with Amy. You know, none of that, right?

Ian O’Connor  27:56

There might have been there might have been some there. But he just, you know, John marrow is one of the most respected figures in the league period, despite the record the last 14 years. But he he was running the show, and they won two Super Bowls, and just John Mara is an honorable human being. And listen, it hasn’t been all Wine and Roses here in New York with me and John Marra. He didn’t talk to me for a couple of years. He was really mad about something I wrote, but then he got over it, and we went back to having a professional

Nestor Aparicio  28:23

cordial relationship. Maybe the Ravens will let me back in.

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Ian O’Connor  28:25

Ian, hey, I think they should, obviously. And, you know, I learned long ago that because I’ve faced criticism with books or columns and people ripping the, you know, what out of you, and certainly at age 61 I’ve come to the realization long ago that, hey, that’s part of it. When you’re a paid critic, you have to take it too and take it professionally as you expect your subjects to take it when you rip them in a column in a broadcast on a talk show, whatever a podcast.

Nestor Aparicio  28:58

So I love that you call John Mayer a man of honor. Because I would say that posthumously about David Modell. Art modell, I would say that about also, you know, I would say that about Larry lichino. I would, you mean, I’ve met lots of people in upper management that I felt like good people. I’ve also met people that the more money and the more power and the more glory, the more they they change, too. Billionaires changed a lot more than the rest of us in a lot of ways. And you know, I feel like for you to say that about the mirror family, I feel that way on the outside, and I think John certainly knew of that and knew of that reputation, and that makes it eminently more livable, especially when you already have $150 million in the bank.

Ian O’Connor  29:37

You know exactly. And I think you’re right. He could sleep well at night knowing that not only do I have a very sane owner that I’m working with, but a guy who believes in me so much that he did something in the 100 year history of the New York Giants has never been done before, he allowed the head coach to report directly to ownership. So yeah, I think he’s in a really good spot as long as. He wins football games now that’s got to start in year two, year one, as long as it’s not a disaster like Giants fans are used to, where it’s four and 13, three and 14, or even five and 12. It’s, it’s needs to be better than that. I think it will be. I think again, his his bad years are usually eight and nine. He had that one, five and 11. And what was that? 2017 1616, I think right. 17, 1515.

Nestor Aparicio  30:21

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Was bad. 17 was bad, and then Flaco was gone. Right?

Ian O’Connor  30:24

Yeah, but you know, if you over 18 years in the NFL, again, a sport built on parody, to have the record John has is pretty damn good, and it’s not perfect, certainly, but Giants fans would sign up for it, and their owner just did. So I think they’re in a good place.

Nestor Aparicio  30:39

I think at heart, John’s a scout too, in a hardcore way. So his whole like, I can pick the players, I can be a part of. I helped pick the players for 18 years. I don’t think he gets credit for that here, or whether, I don’t know if he deserves it. I haven’t spoken to Eric in a couple of years to know who’s high on really, was high on safe, or any of the good players they’ve had. But I do think that there’s, there’s a part of this for John that that the analytics part, the I know, the building part, that we need more sports scientists, we need more nutrition, all of those things that Eric really boned up on, quite frankly, through his baseball love. I mean, the truth there, and when you start to talk to hardball, is Eric dicostal loves baseball and fell into Moneyball and analytics and football analytics, and the Giants fell behind in that, right? Like they did,

Ian O’Connor  31:27

yeah, sure, and that was one of the things that John wants to beef up, is analytics. And so in this contract, the Giants gave him the ability to influence and really reboot a lot of departments in that building which, and frankly, some of them need it. And so you saw right away that, no offense to Kevin Abrams, but right out of the gate, he is let go. And so, you know, I think John is going to be able to do what he feels he needs to do to have the kind of winning machine in New York that he had for part of the time anyway, in in Baltimore.

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Nestor Aparicio  32:05

Alright, so I just pulled up your books here. I’m not going to pull them back up if people saw them. I blinked them out, because you put them up on the front of Facebook. District, Arnie and Jack the captain, which Derek Jeter, Bill Belichick, which I think you and I chatted about whether he was happy or not with that. And then the Coach K book, which will not sell well around here in marylandia, where they’re still pissed about the ACC thing. Um, you know, I would make a prediction that you’d be writing the HAR ball book if, if he were to win, maybe his brother wins too. I mean, like the song says, the rest is still unwritten at this point, and you’ll be the guy writing it. But this is, it’s fascinating business. John Harbaugh and big blue, right, from your perspective, from the New York perspective, of things that have come blown into town at any point in the last 2025, years. Joe Torre, you know, whatever the stories would be, this is one you want to write, right?

Ian O’Connor  32:57

Yeah. And I would say in my four decades of covering sports in New York. This is the biggest hire, most important hire the Giants have made period. It’s bigger than Kotlin because four years earlier, they’re in the Super Bowl with the ravens, and again, it’s been since their last Super Bowl victory over the Patriots in the 2011 season, since they’ve been worth a damn. So this is the biggest hire, maybe since par sells with the Jets in 97 Pat Riley with the Knicks in 91 so you gotta go back 30 plus years to find something in New York. As far as the coach is concerned, that’s this significant. So it seems that, at least for right now, Harbaugh is embracing it, but we’ll see how he feels about it in a year or two. You write any more books? Well, I have two more. I had an Aaron Rodgers book that wasn’t in that photo. I have a book with DAN HURLEY that’s out called never stop. He’s got a chance to win a third national title at UConn in four years. And I, I’m about to start a book, I believe, on the five year period of the New York Giants, 2007 to 11, when they have the two Super Bowl victories over Belichick and Brady, their best team in 2008 would have, Coughlin believes would have won it. Plaxicle bird shot himself at a nightclub by accident, and that blew up the season. So I may do a book on those five years, probably the best five years in giants history, and that’ll be, yeah, that looks like right now. The next subject that I’ll tackle,

Nestor Aparicio  34:21

John’s going to try to rewrite that over the next three or four years for you. Ian O’Connor is up in New York, in the Big Apple, where, the minute the thaw happens, dude, New York. I use New York, like, like, like, Fonzie used the bathroom at Arnold’s. You know what I mean? Like, I come to New York whenever, whenever the weather gets good, so I’ll be up there. It’s always a pleasure to have you on and share your wisdom and good luck with John up there. I I hope things are interesting. If nothing else, I think you know he’s a chance to win there, which I think it’s been an unbelievable landing spot for him. That’s all

Ian O’Connor  34:54

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big story. Either way, my suspicion is he’ll do his share of winning. Does he win the big one or not? Who knows? Those, but it’ll be fun on the way there finding out.

Nestor Aparicio  35:03

All right. Well, we’ll play the Giants and Jesse Minter, we’ll get together with one of his mentors in John Harbaugh, looks out knowing smells we need no more purple plumes of smoke coming up over the warehouse or the castle out there. We get the warehouse, and we got Sarasota ed as well, and we’re hoping to dig out around here. We’re going to be doing a cup of Super Bowl next week, five shows, five days, all charity, all community, all great stories and a bunch of cool people to meet who are doing things the Baltimore positive way. I’m back for more right after this.