Luke Jones and Nestor get Ravens fans ready to visit a wilting Browns franchise led by Jameis Winston.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Ravens fans, Browns franchise, Jameis Winston, Lamar Jackson, Derek Henry, offensive line, defensive issues, short week, injury concerns, playoff hopes, trading deadline, pass rush, stadium issues, fan base, game prediction
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
8
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T, tassel, Baltimore, or am 1570 set a place on your dial. Subscribe to us. I should probably say a whole lot more of that. And I should probably promote our damn tech service, because Luke’s on a 24/7 he’s there. It’s all brought to you by Francis COVID roofing. I did have Bill Cole on the show last week talking Northern Lights. This week, we just talked business off the air. But I gotta get a mug from him and do it all upright. But everybody knows Bill Cole, and our relationship, and our relationship with Cole roofing and and Gordian energy, bringing back to life our tech service, and people are digging it. It’s sort of resuscitated in the modern world. Luke is the one doing that. So when you when you get the little jiggling, don’t hear my voice. Hear His voice. Hear the the the central South Central Pennsylvania, via Essex accent, not the Dundalk goof, when you get that. And Bill Cole said to me, can we make Cole roofing less character so we give Luke more characters to write more loquacious things, but the text gods do not allow that, so they’re always short, sweet, succinct, and always brought to you by Cole roofing, also our Maryland crab cake tours out on the road on Friday, mamas on the half shell. Finally, I’ve returned to Owings Mills. We will be there courtesy of our friends at the Maryland lottery, I have Raven scratch offs. These smell lucky, even though they don’t have scented holiday tickets. I was very disappointed to hear that. But John Martin showed up this week after the guardians were eliminated. John Martin from the Maryland lottery showed up this week after the Deshaun Watson thing and all that, knowing that he’s one of the Browns guys, I’ve had a lot of browns folks on this week. Michael red guy sends his regards. David zastle sends his regards. Could not join us this week, but much Bishop was here. Daryl writer, Mike Cleveland mafia. I actually Luke Jones. I want to say I hit Mike Polk, Jr, who does the Cleveland tourism. And I got the right phone number on him, because I got some insiders, because I’m a tell Chad, I’m a real journalist, and I text Mike Polk, and I haven’t heard back, and looked at this point, because he’s like, doing grown up stuff, like he does, like he’s on TV now, and like does, maybe not even comedic bits, but more like serious bits, because they got a stadium issue that’s a dumpster fire. There a complete dumpster fire. They have a franchise that’s a dumpster fire, and here come the Ravens in. We’re just expecting this to be 42 to nine by halftime, right? I
Luke Jones 02:30
mean, it very well could be right. I mean, we’ve talked about it. I mean, we know how this ravens offense specifically is playing, and has played from Week Three on. Not that it was awful in week one or week two, but the Owen two start at a lot of people raising red flags and at least maybe reaching for the panic button, if not pushing the panic button. But yeah, you look at this game and you see a Ravens team that is red hot has won five in a row, is tied with Pittsburgh for first place in the AFC North is getting lots of flowers now around the league in terms of whether they’re the best team in the league, whether Lamar Jackson’s the MVP favorite at this point he is, whether Derek Henry will break the all time rushing record, albeit in a 17 game schedule.
03:15
I don’t think he will, but he’s on that kind of pace right now, and
Nestor Aparicio 03:19
I’ve known this, I would have spent the 33 bucks on the oiler Derrick Henry Jersey I’d be wearing it right now. You almost look like you’re wearing a little bit. You’re somewhere in that, you know, teal range there. But, you know, it’s been a fun week for me to spike the ball. I mean, they win the Super Bowl. I’ve got the tweet that’s, you know what I mean, and it’s in the arsenal. It’s in the freaking prediction business, and predicting that training deadlines and everybody Cleveland’s asking me to speak, who’s Eric the Costa, going to trade for this year? And it only begs that if this would have gone down last year for whatever, they would have had to bag it donuts. They’d had to give it away and cap it that, you know, I’m just saying they could have used Derek Henry back on Baltimore soil at the end of January. And you do know, they
8Luke Jones 04:13
tried to get them right? Okay. I mean, we’ve talked about this, yeah. Anyway, at the point I was making all these things going so well for the ravens, everything going so horribly for the browns. I mean, right down to their two, $30 million guaranteed quarterback, who was playing terribly, tearing his Achilles. Fans, cheering players taking shots at fans after the game. I mean, just a completely toxic situation, by
Nestor Aparicio 04:42
the way, and them trying to get a stadium done too sure, on top of all, sure, sure, sure, got a tailgating mess there with COVID and stuff like, it’s insane. What’s going on there? There’s, there’s
Luke Jones 04:52
so much going wrong in the city of Cleveland as it pertains to the Cleveland Browns, and whether they’re, you know, not going to be playing. Downtown anymore, with a new stadium out in the suburbs, but I think this is still a game that concerns me more than everything we just laid out. It concerns me more than that because you’re talking about the Ravens on a short week, you’re talking about a Ravens team that is banged up right now. Marlon Humphrey, while he avoided a serious knee injury. Very much. His status is up in the air. Zay flowers, we saw zay flowers hurt his ankle in the first play of the second quarter. Now he played through it. But whenever you have that kind of a situation, how does it feel when you stop playing? How does it feel the next day? How’s it feeling two days later? So his status is at least a little iffy. You have Nate Wiggins, who, late in the third quarter, you could even see, landed on his left shoulder awkwardly. He did not leave the game. Ended up playing a career high in snaps, but that’s a shoulder that’s been bothering him a little bit. He’s missed time this week. Travis Jones, who did not see when he hurt his ankle, specifically, but go back and look, he barely played in the second half, and when he did, he didn’t look like the Travis Jones we’ve been talking about all year in terms of maybe being the Ravens best defensive lineman, even over Mata beat case. So so the ravens are banged up, and you have a Cleveland team that, let’s be clear, I’m not going to sit here and try to pump up a one in six team. You know that their record, what they’ve done speaks for itself, but they have a new quarterback in Jameis Winston, a guy who I know in New Orleans and other places. Say what you want about his play on the field has typically been a guy that’s been popular with teammates. I think you go back and look at his history. Yes, he’s someone who’s thrown 30 interceptions in the season, he’s also thrown 33 touchdowns in the season. He did that in the same year. So you’re talking about someone who is not shy about throwing the ball around the field against the past defense that, as I just said, could be banged up, and a pass defense that has not been very good so capable
Nestor Aparicio 06:58
8backup. He’s not sure he’s not a guy that doesn’t give you a chance to win on any given day, because he’s got all the skills. He’s smarter than he’s ever been. He’s trying to be more grown up. And I was going to jump in when I had my stadium thing, and say, You got Jameis Winston now not only leading your franchise, but literally shaming the fans and being the grown up in the room and speaking kindly about Deshaun Watson, and maybe not, maybe a little over the top in some ways on the character side of things, but that’s just weird. I mean, and Flacco lifting the team last year, which, that’s a one one. I mean, what? You know, it’s a ceiling guy with all the skills and all of that stuff, not as banged up because he hasn’t been subjected to abuse, because he’s been a little bit of a backup at this point. You know, when I see guys like Geno Smith and Sam darnold And these guys maybe halfway figure it out. I mean, I’m not saying he’s going to the Hall of any good but I’m saying they almost beat the Bengals the other day with nothing like they were in the game and he he gave him a better chance to win than the other guy did. And I think he does. And I think, you know, if they just put jerseys on them, and there weren’t contracts and allegations and all the other stuff going on, Winston probably would have won the job if it was just about football players there, right here and now. So they’re probably a better team this week than they were last week despite all the crud.
Luke Jones 08:22
Yeah, yeah. And keep in mind, Nick Chubbs back another he’ll be another week back on the on the roster. Of course, had that awful knee injury early in the 2023 season. And the other factor is they have a new play caller, Kevin Stefanski, who has been calling the plays for the Cleveland Browns. And, you know, we didn’t spend a line a lot of time talking about this, but, I mean, you had this Cleveland team, and you mentioned Flacco. And I don’t want to get too much into the Flacco thing, because there’s a lot of meat on the bone that it’s not related to Joe Flacco and what he did last year for Cleveland, but he leaves. Their offensive line coach leaves. They make a change. They bring in Ken Dorsey. They changed their offense. I mean, this is not the offense they ran last year that allowed Joe Flacco to come in and out play what Deshaun Watson was doing, and play it at a high enough level that he helped lead that team to the playoffs. So you have a new play caller who’s actually calling plays for his system, rather than the head coach calling plays for a new system, which, you know, ask anyone in Cleveland, look Deshaun Watson. And I’ve said this, I have no I have no reason to mince words about Deshaun Watson. He’s so awful this year, just absolutely awful. But he’s not the only thing that was awful about the Cleveland offense. I mean, their offensive line has been banged up, has not been as good as it was. When you think back two three years ago, you know the reputation that was that Cleveland had one of the better offensive lines in the NFL, and it is not played like that. This year, they’ve been missing Wyatt teller, their pro bowl right guard, although he was designated to return this week, I don’t know if we’re going to see him on the field Sunday, but he’s at least. Practicing. So you have all these different changes on the Cleveland side. And I will say this, even though that defense has not performed at an elite level like it did last year, it is still a very talented defense. It still has miles Garrett, it still has that area, Smith, it still has Denzel Ward out on the outside. So it’s not as though this defense has been stripped of talent and is a shell of what it used to be. It’s underperformed at times, but it’s still a very talented defense. Now, let me be clear when I say that if the Ravens come in firing on all cylinders the way that they have in recent weeks, no, I don’t think this Cleveland defense is going to be able to do much stuff, other than maybe, you know, get a couple stops here and there. But my point is, with all of these factors, short week for the ravens, a road game following a Monday night road game, historically, that is, that’s a tough circumstance for any team, not the ravens, but just in a general sense, you do have a Ravens team that’s bang up right now, including some really key guys. Again, are they going to play on Sunday or not? We’ll have to see you certainly be following the wnst tech service as we’ll send out. You know, any notable injury report, and then Game Day inactives on late Sunday morning. But you have that, and then you have these changes on the other side. Look, is Jameis Winston going to turn around the Cleveland Browns this year? Absolutely not. Is Jameis Winston capable of playing some good games here or there? Does he have the arm talent and the ability that, as you pointed out, made him a one, one once upon a time. And it’s not like he’s 39 years old like Joe Flacco, even he’s, you know, Jameis Winston’s what? You know? He’s 30. You know what? I
Nestor Aparicio 11:45
figured 30 is what I was going to call him 30, maybe
Luke Jones 11:48
31 Yeah, he’s 30. He was born in 1994 so there you go. He’ll be 31 in January. So we’re not talking about someone that who should be broken down physically. He’s made a total of just a few starts over the last three years, so his body is in ideally pretty good shape. So my point in saying all this is not just to drum up a lot of fear about this game, but it is to be alert about this game if you’re the Baltimore Ravens. John horva even talked about this on Wednesday, when you’re talking about facing a veteran quarterback who, yes, you might have some tape on and yes, once upon a time, back in 2018 The Raven face Jameis Winston, when he was still the starter for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and it was one of Lamar Jackson’s first starts. So that was six years ago. I don’t know how much you can take from that. I mean, do you go back in the archives and look at what your scouting reports and tendency said about Jameis Winston? Well, this is Jameis Winston, that’s older, has been a backup, you know, including behind what Drew Brees, and so it’s, it’s just a weird game in that way, because you have that factor. And then you have Ken Dorsey, who I know was Camden buffalo a year ago, and things did not end well there, but this is a guy who’s been part of some successful offenses in the past, and now he’s going to be calling the plays, which, if you kind of think about the hierarchy of how Cleveland handled everything, probably should have just been calling the plays from Jump Street this year. So do I think that would have made Deshaun Watson look like what Deshaun Watson was supposed to look like. You know what he looked like five years ago? No, but so it’s just, it’s a weird set of circumstances, so the Ravens just need to be on alert. Start fast. This is a team, to your point, with all the toxicity with the fan base and how they felt about Deshaun Watson, how they feel about this team right now, how they feel about the organization and the stadium issue, all of those things. This is a fan base that probably wants to turn on the team on Sunday.
8Nestor Aparicio 13:51
Questions, dude, right? You’ve walked into that stadium a handful of times. I’ve walked into that city dozens like I mean, I’ve been there for everything, World Series, games, big, wins, big. I was there when they rip the seats out of the stadium, and when the team’s coming here. So, I mean, I see, I was there for Elway drive. I walked out of there. So I mean, I like, I know how they are. And I think that dude, I’ve just, I’ve talked to all sides this week out in Northeast Ohio. And the one thing about them that’s weird and and when I talk to everyone about them, like, I don’t you guys like the Guardians more or the like, why aren’t people more pissed at the Browns that it doesn’t look like the 81 colts, where there’s just 14,000 people showing up and just flaming middle fingers and saying, sell the team. Let’s get this criminal at free the birds. You know, whatever it is, and I don’t know, but they buy the tickets. They show up. They show up, maybe just to boo. I mean, I don’t expect 20,000 MPC. They’re one in six. Most places. Nobody would come anymore. Miami, nobody’s there. And. Arizona, nobody’s there. And I’m, you know, bringing up some venerable franchises, nobody might be there. The Cowboys are one in six. Nobody will be in debt that, you know, Dallas, that’s that’s a big myth, that everybody comes and sees the Cowboys. Easiest stadium in the league to get a ticket in, usually, right? The Browns fans have had 30 years of this. You and I talk so much about the Orioles and empty seats and what Katie Griggs has to deal with and Yankees Dodgers. We’re going to watch that all two of those before we even get to play on Sunday as well as morning football and Thursday night football and everything else that we’re going to we’re going to watch. I would just say this. Nobody’s had it worse than Brown’s fans. They had their team stolen from them. The team that came back was legendarily awful, and now they’ve got this crooked owner bringing in this awful human and even managing the pisshotti off in front of me, pissing off all his partners. And now the kids got an ACL, and the fans cheered it. I mean, you if I’m a Hunter S Thompson writing the script on this two and a half years ago, when Chad said, I’m not a media guy, and Bucha he’s flamed out about, I can’t believe they I mean, bashati was the one that popped off about the money and the guaranteed part of the money, and this is like if you were to write a script of everything that could go wrong. Oh, and they’re trying to get a stadium to uh, let’s add that in. And the city hates him, and the state hates him, and it’s Ohio, so nobody is going to do it. Get anything done from Columbus or Cincinnati to get them a stadium. And I’m thinking to myself, Oh my God. What a steaming, flaming bag for the fans, for the people who buy into this and they’re going to show up, but Jameis Winston fades back to pass get stripped. Van Noy touchdown. Kyle Hamilton’s dancing in the end zone. It’s six, nothing, three, three minutes in, minute and a half in, or Lamar goes Think Tank dunk, and Mark Andrews is spiking the ball, and it’s six, nothing. It’s over, like I’ve seen it. So it’s a while you want to go. I mean, I got nothing else to do Sunday. I mean, my back’s good. I mean, get pick up Bernard bikini. You know, I mean, to me, it’s, it’s almost theater, you know, for what it is for the league, this Baltimore Cleveland thing, because it’s pretty rock bottom. It really is for the franchise there. I mean, where’s rock bottom? I don’t know, $80 million cap at the next couple years trying to get a stadium done. Everybody hates the owner. They have no prayer for a quarterback. And to your point, you got a decent team, you know, rest of the team not awful, even though they’re trading away players and whatnot, right?
Luke Jones 17:48
Yeah, well, um, the point I was trying to make, though, is don’t give them any reason for hope. Don’t allow Jameis Winston to hit Jerry Judy, because the Ravens have a breakdown in coverage, as they’re apt to do, and they’re up seven, nothing. And then you turn the ball over early on, and suddenly it’s 10, nothing. Now if that happens, no, the Ravens shouldn’t press the panic button. Doesn’t mean the Ravens won’t win the game. Doesn’t mean the Ravens won’t win the game by four touchdowns, because we saw them fall down 10 nothing against Tampa Bay, and we saw how that turned out. But my point with this is because of these circumstances, because of how toxic this variables had been and continue to be, but specifically with Deshaun Watson, Jameis Winston, yeah. I mean, he was one of the players that was critical of how the fans reacted to the Watson Achilles injury at the same time, this is a fan base that’s been clamoring for Jameis Winston to be playing over Deshaun Watson for the last seven weeks. So if he leads Cleveland to a touchdown drive on their opening drive, and they have an early lead. And the thing you have to remember, and you know this from all the people that you talk to him in Cleveland, they still hate the Ravens. They still hate Baltimore. So if there’s a scenario where the Ravens start slowly here and Cleveland jumps out to seven, nothing leads something along those lines. You don’t want to give them any hope. That’s the only point I’m making here. I’m picking the ravens to win this game. Let’s be clear, this isn’t Luke sounding the alarm and trying to be a contrarian, because everyone’s going to pick the ravens to win in a blowout. I The ravens are far more likely to win in a blowout than the Browns are to win by three, right? I mean, that’s, that’s how I feel about this, but because it is a different quarterback, because it’s a new not offensive coordinator, but new play caller, because it’s just a team that, to your point hat, is not completely devoid of talent, especially on the defensive side, it’s still a very viable defense. And you have a quarterback that, look, I’m not going to sit here and say Jameis Winston’s a top 20 quarterback by any stretch of the imagination. I’m. He, by right, is a backup, or should be a backup, or if he would be a starter, he’d be one of the lesser starters in the NFL. But Deshaun Watson was playing that poorly, that the the benchmark, the the standard, is not that high for him to clear to be an upgrade over Deshaun Watson. So look, they traded Amari Cooper. They still have Jerry Judy. They have David and joke, who we’ve seen in joke, who make plays against the ravens, right? I mean, he’s capable, even if he’s someone who struggles to stay on the field. So I’m just laying out the variables here, the circumstances here that the Ravens need to go handle business and not mess around here, they need to start fast. But there are some circumstances here that make you at least take some Paul short week. Like I said, Ravens have some key players banged up. You know, whether they’re going to play or not, are they going to be 100% so just watch out for that. And as I said, from a preparation standpoint, it’s weird. What Cleveland tape offensively do you go back and watch? Right? I mean, is watching Deshaun Watson knowing how horrible he was this year. Is that really telling you a whole lot? I mean, okay, you can watch the offensive line play, and you can watch the receivers run routes and all that, but in terms of getting a feel for what Jameis Winston’s going to do, okay, is, will the preseason tell you much? Do you go back and watch tape from New Orleans or Tampa. I mean, those are different systems, right? So it’s just a it’s a tricky preparation week, right? Short week,
Nestor Aparicio 21:27
James Winston comes in there and says, here’s the 12 plays I want to run, here’s the things I’m good at, sure, here’s the things that I think we can do. There are different offense without Amari Cooper, dude, you know what I mean. So, like, you just talk about the fire sale, and you and I will do a whole other segment on the ravens and trading deadline and where the Ravens could get help or need help, and where their problems are and solving them beyond DPS. But I would say this, you Winston’s going to come in there this week. They’re going to look different. You mentioned Chubb, you mentioned their offensive line problems. You know, Winston’s a big boy. He doesn’t like getting sacked. He’s been in a lot of meeting rooms and a lot of helmets with a lot of offensive coordinators and a lot of sub optimal talent around him at various points, as well as some good talent other places. But he’s no dumb cookie. I mean, really, you know, whatever you think of Jameis Winston Belichick, these people keep taking chances and saying, when I hear them talk about his potential, and saying, if, if I had him, if I could do this, well, Stefanski is a little bit of a genius in being there and giving up the reins. All of that’s a little bit weird. And who, and I talked to the Cleveland guys this week, who wants off the boat and who wants on the boat, and who’s playing to get traded this week, to be roquan Smith, and saying, maybe the chiefs will want me this week. I mean, the chiefs needed wide receivers. They went and got help off. I mean, these teams are going and getting help. So it’s not out in the realm of possibility for the ravens, and we can talk about that, but there’s still a lot to play for if you’re Jameis Winston, and there’s probably within the framework of that locker room. And you mentioned at the top Jameis Winston’s been popular where he’s been, you know, including in college, right, where he won a lot of games and helped a lot of coaches make a lot of money. I would just say, for him being in there this week, if they locked the noise out to some degree about all the crap we’re talking about, and just say we almost beat Cincinnati last week, and we’re a team. They’re a team. They’re coming in, they’re banged up. Here’s the X’s and O’s. I like it better with Cooper. You know, if they’re like a full team, but they’re one and six, everybody wants off the boat. I’m wondering who’s in and who’s out. But I also have seen teams sort of nut up here to your point and be like, you know, let’s stay in the game. Let’s make their kicker make a kick. Let’s make their player make a play. Let’s let them let’s get them in the third down and have them make after make a play. But we got to tackle Derek Henry, and when you mention things that have gone wrong for the ravens, because the the Browns all the Cleveland I was on Kenny road his show. You’ll hear that you can find out Baltimore positive. And he asked me, what’s made the Ravens so good the last five weeks? They weren’t the first two. And I’m like, well, the offensive line wasn’t very good in the beginning, and they really weren’t sure what to do with Voorhees and who this Rosengarten guy was, and they had all sorts of penalties, and Ronnie Stanley couldn’t line up. And what, how did they lose to the Raiders? And I’m like, well, it’s like, kind of remember it Max Crosby sort of wrecked the game to some degree, and Gardner mentioned wrecked the other side of the game. And but I thought to myself, miles Garrett, if you have a game wrecker and you plan around that, he only has to make two or three or four plays, right? I made you need to make the play at the right time. And this is always dangerous. These division games go back. I do all the gambling numbers. Boy Mike Warren’s coming out to Mama’s own 82 years old. So we’ll do the numbers. We’ll break it all down, all the stuff that that Terry Bradshaw does now in the middle of the games. But I.
Luke Jones 30:00
8Defense, offense, not consistently. I don’t think, I I’m not sure that there’s a defense in football right now that can stop this offense. So it comes down to maximizing your possessions, taking care of the ball, getting touchdowns inside the red zone, which they have done, and they’ve done at a very high rate. And defensively, you got to play smart. Don’t, don’t blow any coverages, place. Play clean football. Keep them in front of you. Do all the things that we’ve been talking about them doing, and they did it in the second and third quarter against Tampa Bay. But you know, don’t. Don’t be in a position where you’re giving up a big play early. Don’t give them hope that. That’s the theme for me. Don’t give this Cleveland team or this fan base, any hope on Sunday jump out to an early lead. You know, if it’s the Ravens jumping out to attend nothing lead this game will be over by halftime, probably, you know, with, with the the caveat, knowing that the Ravens give up Garbage Time yards, and we’ll probably make it look closer than it actually was, which is what happened in the Tampa game. So, so, you know, it’s nothing that complex, but just be sharp, right? Go out and play your brand of football and don’t do anything that gives them hope. That fan base wants to boo that team at this point in time, that team is one in six. They know they’re done. These guys, some of them are playing for jobs. Other guys can be playing bit, you know, making business decisions. And other guys, like Zaria Smith, for example, can be looking to get out of Dodge, and you’ll be on another team next week, trading to a contender. Yeah, maybe the rave, yeah. I mean, I’m guessing the Ravens would love to have zadaria Smith back. I’m guessing Cleveland won’t trade them to to a division rival, but the Ravens would certainly be looking for another edge guy. I think that’s the kind of the under I wrote about this at Baltimore positive.com as much as we’ve been focused on the secondary. And yes, you look at the Ravens pass rush, and you say, well, they’re fourth in the NFL, and sacks, well, I’ll say this. Go. Look at the pressure rate. Pressure rate across multiple sources, is middling at best, and okay, they’re fourth in sacks. But think about their opportunity set. Teams have dropped back to throw against them more than anyone else in the NFL, right? I mean, they’ve had so many chances to rush the passer. So when you think about it through that, in that context, pass rush isn’t as impressive. It’s been a little too feast or famine, and I thought that was the case. Even on Sunday night, they got a few sacks, but there were also times where they did not get a consistent pressure. So, you know, I don’t
Nestor Aparicio 32:34
think it’s coverage either, right, like without a pass, Jameis Winston will beat you. You get a quarterback time, you give a quarterback time. To me, that’s, well, he could also throw a pick, too, to your point, but Right? And then generals, he can make plays better to sack him or make dirt the ball than to extend a play with him. You want to shorten the play, right?
