Communications exec and Orioles lifer Greg Abel returns to talk hope of Rubenstein and new face on Birds with Nestor
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
orioles, people, nestor, game, ravens, team, years, feel, stadium, money, baseball, work, rubenstein, great, city, brand, questions, season, baltimore, beer
SPEAKERS
Greg Abel, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Yes, welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, Tesla, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. No, I’m not growing a playoff beard. I’m just feeling a little vacationy this week and a little stunning fun while the Orioles are in Los Angeles, Luke will be monitoring all things Orioles and ravens cuts, we are going to be reinstituting the wnst tech service. I had a long chat with Bill Cole. I showed how the sausage was made around here with our long standing and outstanding wnst tech service. We’re gonna be doing the show at fates on Friday, and then two weeks from Friday as well, we begin this incredible journey. On the fourth of September, we’re going to be at Cocos. Mark Viviano is going to be working non K Fabe with me on Labor Day, Week, in advance of the Kansas City ravens game. And we have a lot a lot of things going on around here. And 26 oysters, 26 days, 26 ways. Jessica Vallis, this might be my last piece with the 25 cupcake. We’re going to the 26 oyster crab soon. All the brought to by the Maryland lottery. I have the gold rush, sevens, doubles. I got to get those Raven scratch offs. I will have them in my hands by the time I get to Cocos on the fourth, I promise. And then on the fifth, it’s oysters, oysters and more oysters will be at fates on the sixth, kicking the whole thing off before another weekend of Oh, real baseball. Some of these songs this guy might even remember, you know, you and your number one underneath the lights are in the sun having fun together. Oh real baseball. There he is. Greg Abel is my guest. I wear my Getty Lee shirt. I haven’t shaved in a month. I’m eating peach cake this morning with you, and listen the Orioles lost yesterday. And if you’re listening next week, somebody say, yeah, they’ve been losing a lot lately, right? So we could bring this together, but we’ve been trying to get together and talk for a while. You own able communications. You’re a long standing friend of mine, but I got to know you through free the birds. I don’t think I knew you before September 22 2006 my life certainly changed that day. And you made famously. They read the birds. We’re not going to take it video. And someone admitted a couple of weeks ago that they’ve watched it over and over and over and over again. And I think they put Dee Snider back in. I was trying to bring D Snyder on when he played m3 to honor him for his role in that before they muted the video. Um, how are you? Man, you’re doing your own Baltimore thing at able communication. Yeah, yeah. We run
Greg Abel 02:33
a local public relations firm. We work with a lot of the everything, everyone from nonprofits to large healthcare organizations and professional services firms helping them get the word out about their people, their product, their services. And so it’s been a
Nestor Aparicio 02:48
beleaguered Sports Radio washed up, a beleaguered sports radio show host who has been banned by both. It’s amazing. You’ve lived long enough to see me get banned from the Kevin Byrne press box like that’s an amazing we’ve really come a long way here, haven’t we? Greg, well, you
Greg Abel 03:03
know, you said free the birds, but Nestor, I’ve been aware of you and your work since 1990s because you were doing NSD when, you know, sports radio started emerging in Baltimore, I think you were probably the first that was all sports on am dial, and I was writing about sports business at the Baltimore Business Journal. And I think I interviewed you for a story back then and then, so you know, and then some time, I
Nestor Aparicio 03:28
do remember that I have that clip and I ran a I should have taken a screenshot and sent it over to you, because when we were doing the documentary, I found that. And thanks to Steve Hennessy for that too. I did thank him. I thanked him personally, but for all that time. You know what I mean? Like, I remember sitting and talking about my career with you 27 years ago, and what sports was then, and the Ravens were brand new when you worked there, right?
Greg Abel 03:51
Yeah, ravens were brand new. I don’t even know if, yeah, they didn’t have their own stadium at those are probably in the Memorial Stadium days. And so so much time has passed, but then some things are still the same, right? Like this is a town with a passion for its teams, and we’ve had some ups and downs, and obviously, the Ravens have been such a good story for Baltimore for the most part, for the last two and a half decades, and the Orioles have been at the lowest of the lows. And you know, we’re climbing, but haven’t quite reached the top of the mountain here. But, you know, I’m staying positive about this season. I think I wanted to mention, you know, you had mentioned they’ve been losing lately, and we all know that, you know, the people who follow the ores closely, I think I just last year was a great, great season. They were 101, and 61 and as a fan, you had a you had a journey of six months. You know, most of the season isn’t the playoffs, it’s what people tend to remember, but most of the season is the day in and the day out. And what happened last year was you had a team that was fairly over 500 the year before that took the leap and went 40 games over 500 which is a big deal to win over 100 games, but i How many times in the Orioles history have they done that? And. Three,
Nestor Aparicio 05:00
maybe three, yeah. I mean, they won 180 81, or 80 and didn’t get in the playoffs,
Greg Abel 05:05
yeah? So maybe five, who knows? But, I mean, we could, well, 69
Nestor Aparicio 05:09
definitely, right? I mean, I off top my head, yeah. I mean four or five. I mean the 97 Orioles didn’t win 100 games, and they were really good team, right?
Greg Abel 05:18
83 when we won the World Series, I think they won 9697 something like that. And so you get a team that gets rarefied
Nestor Aparicio 05:24
air, and we, I mean, I sit here every day like you, you listen to my show, you fought. This isn’t a this is we’re not waiting for the good times. These are the good times. That’s right,
Greg Abel 05:33
that’s right. That’s kind of the point I was trying to make, is that, like, it doesn’t get a lot better than this. So even though we’re, like, the team got off to a great start. Where they’re, I don’t know, 30 games over 500 in June, or maybe 25, six, and that was a really high winning percentage. And then, as we all know, the last two months have been 500 baseball a little worse, but you did enough early that if you just win half until the end, you’ll be in the playoffs. And then, who the heck knows, like Texas last year, they were a 91 and 71 team. They got hot. They won the World Series. So we could still do that. But my point is, life isn’t about like the big moment. Often, life is about the day today, and so this year’s day today has been a little less, I don’t know, joyous than last year’s day today, because we had more winning, and it was like, this immersion of like, it’s gonna happen, like, gunner’s good now, and adley’s Great, and there’s more where that came from, because Jackson holidays, like earning well,
Nestor Aparicio 06:32
then you go into the off season, you’re like, oh, they they’re gonna have a new owner, and Peter’s dead, and John’s gone, and now and Elias might be able to go get Corbin burns. He might be able to buy Zach Eflin. Like, if you would have said to me, and think about that. Now look, look at how good Bradish was last year. These things that now we mean just coming back, and we will have wells, he’ll work out of the ball pen, and Kramer will be the fifth starter. And like, without thinking about Suarez, without thinking about innings for Cade poets, they weren’t thinking up in June, or chase McDermott or like any of these, what they’ve done, and I think what we’ve learned first things first walk off. Wins are more fun when they happen come come from behind. Wins are fun. A closer and it sticks the bats up their ass. It’s fun, you know,
Greg Abel 07:25
with the lights going off, yeah, one run
Nestor Aparicio 07:27
wins every night. Chicks dig the long ball. Lots of home runs. So there’s all of that that was baked and you’d expect to win, right? So when you don’t expect to win, I went through this with Luke this week too, and Luke and Luke and I are getting together faith. He’s looking for, like topicality, and you’re giving me ideas here. Really, I would say the amazing part for Rubenstein, and I’m writing it because, you know, I’m a man of letters. Great. Yes, I’m gonna be writing David Rubenstein a letter. And just of what, and it’s one of the reasons I wanted to bring you on, is because we both held our nose at at Angelos in 2006 me famously, you documenting it, but all these years later, what do we expect from this guy? And we expect him to sign Zach efle. We expect him to have the ability to go good corporates. We expect him to dance on the dugout and we expect him to give out hats and sit behind home plate for three straight days. You know, in Queens, I don’t know what we expect from him, and really, Ara Getty is going to be the guy that owns this guy’s 74 years old. You know what I mean? This guy’s not, I don’t think David Rubenstein’s in this for the next 30 years, and he’s a billionaire, and you’ll get bored with it. I don’t, first off, I’m a media member who’s been banned, so I’ll never sit with them and say, Tell me how you love baseball? Do you watch the games every night? I’m not sure what David Rubenstein knows about baseball, or doesn’t know or where he’s going to be involved, but it feels to me like they have a genius in Elias. They have a genius in my Dell. They have a competent manager in Brandon Hyde, no matter what you think about the bullpen. And they have these young players. To me, this is where a guy like you comes in and says, I’m a Communications guy, I’m a PR guy. I want to have John maroon and his people, different people, and saying they need to grow this. There’s still 20,000 people out. It’s the same old white people. There’s always been. It’s the same people that all wanted to come back, except for me, where I’m back, but I’m not fully back, and I’ll be writing a letter to Mr. Rivers, but the rest of the community, and the price point and what they did to the Birdland members last week that pissed them all off. And I don’t I’m not one of them, but I know many of them, and I am a rewards member, and airlines and royal farms, and I get discounts. I get a free ham. And why overcomplicated
Greg Abel 09:38
things? Yeah. So I the Angelos people
Nestor Aparicio 09:41
are still running the team until Katie Griggs takes over. And I guess one of the reasons I want to have you on to say, okay, Katie Griggs calls you and says, Hey, you made that crazy free the birds video with the the wild man that the band guy, so you were pissed off at p everybody’s pissed off, Peter, the thing that I told Mr. Rubenstein’s guy before he yelled at. And told me to shut up a dozen times. Was this. First thing I said to Chris yelman the Whistler, was, there’s been a lot of trauma here, bro, this has been a lot of trauma here, starting with Mike Flanagan, whose picture was over my shoulder by like, some sort of weird I didn’t mean for that to happen. Mike Flanagan was right here, and Louie Aparicio was right here. It’s on the club level, where I chatted with this man, I said, there’s been a lot of trauma here. There’s there’s some healing that needs to be done above and beyond winning baseball with businesses who were offended, and I mean, I could list, the list, the name, the names of the people over the last 18 years who watched your free the birds video and felt the way we felt in 2006 to 18 years later, we’re still here. I got a credit card. I love the T. I’m, you know, there, but I’m not there because of the way I’ve been treated by the old group and the new group. And I’m thinking to myself, why haven’t they connected? They’re great at 65 bucks to go. Why is it not packed or more packed, except when they give out bobbleheads. Yeah,
Greg Abel 11:04
it’s an interesting question, isn’t it? I think there’s some of it that is legacy from losing for a long time, and there’s some of it where society has changed and the sports world has changed, and consumer sports consumption habits have changed. What I mean by that is the seat on the couch is a pretty good one. We all have beautiful flat screen TVs at home. You know, you don’t have to get in the car drive downtown. The Baltimore perception is another one. You know, there are people who live in Towson and Timonium who think going downtown is a scary proposition.
Nestor Aparicio 11:37
It’s funny. You’d say that, because an hour ago, one of my insiders, one of a guy who’s been managing me my money. Not going to shout him out because he’s a crazy Republican, but he knows he’s, I mean, he’s a crazy I mean, Harford County, the whole thing, can’t help himself, but to, like, kid me when we get together about the city, he sent me a text, I swear I’ll read it to you. I mean, like, I was shocked. He’s like, let’s see we’re venturing down to the city this evening for the O’s game, he said to me, and I’m thinking, right? He wouldn’t be venturing down to the city. Yeah, he’s not a country music guy, so I can’t use Garth Brooks as an example, but I don’t know what else would bring him to downtown Baltimore, given his fox 45 viewing habits, and I guess he’s a sun reader now too, all of a sudden. But, yeah, it’s not that liberal rag anymore, but, but it’s the Orioles are bringing people back to the city. Yeah, they are that that you want them to. It’s an important part of the city. It’s, it is free the birds, because I thought it was the most important part of the city at the time.
Greg Abel 12:45
Well, it’s certainly a fabric of our city, you know, it’s very iconic. And I have liked, you know, in the last couple of years, we’ve seen Governor Moore toward the state, and one of the things he always says is, you know, you can’t have a thriving state if you don’t, if it’s largest city isn’t thriving, and I’ve taken a lot of, I don’t know, pride in that. I think he cares about Baltimore legitimately, not just because he’s saying it, because he thinks it’s a good soundbite, which is it’s because he believes that the largest city must thrive if he’s going to be successful as a governor. And
Nestor Aparicio 13:17
that’s not sure larry hogan really believed that. And if I No, he certainly didn’t, I would say to him, defend that position. You know you’re running for. Defend that position, right? Because I never felt that way, and I’m Baltimore positive. This was my view for 19 years. I took a bath owning property in the city, watching the decay, watching the corruption, watching the just awfulness of the baseball team in my you know, in my world in 2006 looking out the window and seeing what was vibrant in the 90s with Mike Messina and Cal Ripken become Tumbleweed blowing down camp, it freaked me out. So my civic movement was captured as a filmographer by you I want a thriving Orioles, because I felt like three and a half million people coming to downtown Baltimore, including some people from DC back then, showing us all that’s another big factor that side. Yeah, and we have so much to offer as a city. Well, Nestor,
Greg Abel 14:17
here’s the thing, right? Like, I think if in order to fairly analyze whether or not the Orioles are lagging as it comes to, you know, attendance, people going to the games. You know, performance on the field has been really good the last couple years. You can’t really complain about it. They haven’t been great the last two months, but they’re competitive. They have exciting young players. Like, what do you want in a baseball experience they have at the stadiums. They’re going to need some upgrades, but it’s still Oriole Park. It’s a great experience. The if you you have to look, and I don’t have these stats in front of me, but like, how do we compare to what’s happening in Cleveland? How do we compare to what’s happening even in, oh, I don’t know, Milwaukee, right?
Nestor Aparicio 14:53
They attend. This has gone from 19th to 18th. I mean, that’s literally, that’s where we are by and that was. Last week. So that’s not very good standard changes. Here’s where I am. It’s 65 bucks to go all month. And if that’s a price point with it, that anybody could participate now they want you down there, like going to Merriweather for five bucks to see you need the blowfish. They’re expecting to spend 18 bucks on beer and stuff. And I, I, I’m not that guy. I, I don’t like being gouged anywhere. The beer doesn’t taste good when you spend that much on it. It’s I agree. I’m a gundawg guy, and experientially, where I’m going to concerts, ball games, picking where I’m spending my money. And we’re young people, 18 bucks for a 23 year olds, just a hell of it’s a lot for me, you know. But like I’m thinking, and the pickles experience across the street that people want to your point, the home experience, but the experience of the team and the city, it needs to be full up when times are good. I think whatever. Yeah, Upper Deck seats and make the stadium smaller. They’re going to do that.
Greg Abel 15:59
It’s it. I think times have changed. I don’t know. I mean, I only live in this city, right? I do remember growing up and the Orioles are good in the 70s and 80s, when it did feel like more of a topic of ongoing conversation of everyone. And maybe that was just like, my brain then, like, I thought it was such a big deal, but you’d be driving, like, for example, if you’re driving around town, or you go to a sports bars, a better example. And the auras are playing. It’s a random Wednesday, and they’re in Toronto. Is the game on? And are people paying attention?
Nestor Aparicio 16:26
That went away? There was a generation where that just went away, right? Yeah. Like, that
Greg Abel 16:30
is not really the vibe. You know what I mean. Like, where it is the vibe? Maybe I don’t know if it’s the vibe in other places. I only live here, but like, just like, capturing the imagination, attention and excitement of an entire region, even though we’ve been good, and even though we have generational players who are young and it’s going to be exciting, I think that is not quite there. And there’s where the
Nestor Aparicio 16:51
people outside baseball that watched Angelo that the other 90% that don’t care about the Orioles, you know, not the 200,000 people, or whatever that number is, I mean, make it up 300 it’s not 1.9 million in this area. Maybe worldwide, maybe whatever they have that brand and followers on Twitter. They’re not a big baseball brand as brands like Yankees, dodgers, on and on worldwide, brands like the mariners, who own Japan, because each, you know, like, just, there’s, it’s a big world, right? I mean, yeah, that’s right. So for the Orioles to grow their brand beyond being the Cincinnati Bengals of baseball, you know what? I mean, like, right? And it’s a regional franchise, and they have this illustrious, wonderful history that hasn’t done anything 35 years. They haven’t had a legendary player here since Cal Ripken, he went into the hall of fame 17 years ago. So like they haven’t had a legendary player here, where the Ravens the juxtaposition again, as we get ready for this, not only do they have Lamar right now, whatever you think of Kyle Hamilton or these players, Ray Lewis,
Greg Abel 18:01
they’re the brand names. Gunner’s a brand name. Nestor a when you say gunner’s kind of a brand name guy coming up, oh
Nestor Aparicio 18:07
no, no, I’m not. Don’t. Don’t play the Don’t, don’t play the defensive role. I’m simply saying, Oh, that it has everybody like you and me that’s always love baseball, right? Watched Rio Ruiz play third base on a Tuesday night in July when the team’s 31 and 68 right? Yeah? Like, literally, all about, okay, guilty, right? I do sports radio. We’re in the club, okay? It’s like the Democratic National Convention. You know? It’s like people, am I watching that? I’m I already know how I’m voting. I don’t need to get rah rah you want rah rah me, but bring Sammy Hagar in. Let’s go to a you know, that’ll rah rah me. But, but for me, with with the Orioles, and outside of the penetration of smart people like you and me that were very offended by Peter Angelo, by everything about all of that, and the way it was run. Offended because you can’t get the games on massen, offended because you had a bad experience. Offended by the price, offended by the city, you know, like, whatever that is that they have to overcome, beyond the arrogance. And this is where I’m going to be writing that, Mr. Rubenstein, how are you going to roll, dude? And I already know the answer to this, which is sad, but I already know the answer. But the arrogance of being this, and this is for Katie Griggs too. How you have people like me, you have to heal and start to get my money. You have my attention. I watch the games. You can charge me $679 like football to have the games next year. Then guess what? My wife will say, we’re not getting baseball if it’s $700 for a baseball season ticket on TV, we probably just won’t have it’s a lot of money, right? So you but you would say, Whoa, we may amortize that. It’s only $50 money. So you could sell it to me however you want, but they have to figure out how to make money so they can afford gunner Henderson, because I’m with you. I love gunner, I love Adley. I love them all. Now, how? Are we going to pay for them drawing 22,000 people and $65 a month for anybody that can come, and they’re still not coming like they have to figure this out, and it has to be people that have never heard of the Orioles who used to maybe, yeah, penetration. Everybody knows who they are and what they do, then you choose to participate or not?
Greg Abel 20:21
Well, this is where the stadium upgrades might come in, Nestor, because we might see them create experiential things at the stadium. I don’t know. I’m not privy to any of those things, but like, what is there? I think it’s $600 million available to for stadium enhancements on both the ravens and the Orioles side. And I think we’re going to see that this season in the ravens, they’ve made some improvements, and with the Orioles, you have to make it a destination. I’m visiting a friend in Colorado over Labor Day weekend. We’re going to go to the Orioles at the Rockies game. And we were talking about, he grew up here and lives in Denver, and I was asking, Well, does anybody go to Rockies games? They’re terrible this year. He goes, Yeah, because there’s so many people in Denver are from somewhere else, and they just go to games as an experience, or they go to see their hometown team, and going to downtown Denver is like a fun night out as is going to the game. So we need that pivot a little bit where just going downtown and being a part of the stadium experience is a fun night out, whether you’re passionate about the Orioles, and know who’s coming up in the miners are you just kind of there to have a beer and watch a game. And so that second crowd is really that’s what’s going to pivot the numbers people who are just casually, maybe they live downtown, maybe they live anywhere in the region, but they feel like going to going
Nestor Aparicio 21:34
to an Oriole game is something I only do once a year. You better have a whole lot of people. You have a lot of people support that, right? So what you want them to do is say, I went on opening day, and I can’t wait to go back, but I think the fan base they have now has been very, it’s very clear they wait for the bobblehead night. They Yeah, they are a they’re a freebie crowd, and that’s not, I’m done, dog dude. I mean, come on, you know, like,
Greg Abel 22:02
I but if it works, it works. I mean, maybe, I’m sure, you could do the math, you know, whatever it costs for a bobblehead or a t shirt that brings out 15,000 more people. And you add that to the ticket sales and the concessions. I’m sure it’s worth doing. So we might just see more of it until it doesn’t work anymore. You
Nestor Aparicio 22:17
add it to the ticket price. You pay $5 for the bobblehead. You charge $5 more for the ticket, yeah, call it a premium event. It’s a Saturday night, and it’s baked into into your cost. I mean, they’ve never and with this dynamic pricing, you know, they scalp their own tickets on opening day, they’re going to scout their own tickets in the playoffs, right? Billy Joel, Scalping is to everybody’s scalping, right?
Greg Abel 22:38
I mean, it’s not unique. It’s not unique to the Orioles. This is where the industry has gone, which is why I think some people are turned off by that, not just the Orioles, but going to a concert or going to any game. And so they say, why? When
Nestor Aparicio 22:49
there’s 20,000 empty seats on a Tuesday night and Houston’s in town, you say, what’s the value of that seat? I’ll give you five bucks for it, dude. Okay, I’ll stay and watch the game on TV. Then, yeah. I mean, like, so there’s the bargain night that that people used to take advantage of, and the student nights on Friday night that turned into being drunk and unruliness with young people and Angela sending in the, you know, the police with with the badges for the beer and the upper deck carding all my drunk 30 year old buddies, then 20 years ago. But you know you don’t want that either. You know, you don’t want Disco Demolition night. I guess my question is, and this is, really, I should bring you on. You should wear Mr. Rubenstein’s hat, and I should dress you up and just literally ask those questions and say, so, what? What’s what is a thriving what does it look like when it’s thriving? What’s the television part of it look like? What’s the online part of it look like? What’s the ballpark look like? What? What’s the shoulder part of the ballpark look like? And how do you get there, and where’s the money? Yeah. I
Greg Abel 23:49
mean, you need, you need partnership with the city, and it’s gonna look. I mean, we’re still in the honeymoon phase. This guy closed on the team this season. Nestor, so let’s give him a minute, right? I know you’re interested in making sure your voice is heard, and that’s you’re right. I do think we owe it to the to the new ownership to give them a little time to put their stamp on things they entered this season, it was already in motion that, as you pointed out, the staff that was there from prior ownership is largely in place. And so if change will be made, it wasn’t going to be made year one. They weren’t going to upend everything that was happening when the season was just about to begin, so we might see change over the off season into next season. I think a little time is warranted in this scenario.
Nestor Aparicio 24:32
Well, hey, I’ll give them all the time they need. I mean, I’m I’m just literally saying, what do we want as a community? What we expect as a community from this guy who clearly egotistically likes being out in front of it, likes making TV commercials which Cal Ripken likes handing out hats. His buddy araghetti brought a film crew to show him, buying beer for everyone, getting it on the internet and 30. I mean, these are. Billionaires, right? So they have people and but they feel like they’re not going to live here, and this isn’t going to be Larry Lucchino walking the bricks of Highland town trying to get people to buy season books. And I don’t know where their upside is beyond selling the uniform to Tiro, selling the stadium to a bank, like, you know, whatever they’re whatever they’re going to do to modernize that corporate revenue. The one thing I know from how many times I sat in Dick Cass’s big office and the big oak thing, and I would sit in there with him, and we’d sit at a little side table, and he would always say to me, we have no fortune. 500 companies here, you know, all the black and Deckers and the McCormicks and the underwriting like these companies that would fund, like the way beer funded the St Louis Cardinals, right? Like there, there has to be a real buy in in the community. And you the juxtaposition of the Ravens is perfect, because the Ravens have owned the souls of the community here.
Greg Abel 25:59
Oh, yeah, despite Jamal
Nestor Aparicio 26:03
Lewis, despite Ray Rice, who’s now revered and player like they’ve won championships. They’ve had legendary players. They’ve always had a chance to win they’ve always had great players. They’ve always had black players, white players, kickers, special teamers, coaches, people out in front of it doing bar nights. They have they’re involved in charity. They the Ravens have been immersed here to win the spirit of people. And if the Orioles are happy having 20,000 people out there, then the payroll will reflect what our community can do for them? Well, I think that’s the reality. The math,
Greg Abel 26:43
my thought is it’s not one thing, like, yes, on Tuesday night, it’s a late it’s kind of a lame crowd, 20,000 even to see a good team like the Astros. But you know, when you do the bobblehead and it’s Saturday night, then they do get 40,000 and the place is buzzing, and they’re doing that four o’clock Saturday thing, which has been a huge success. So it’s not one thing. It’s not that there’s like, Oh, they’re only drawing 20. Sometimes they draw 35 I think this team, the on the field, performance, is going to matter. You can’t, you know, we want to see Rubenstein sign these long term players to long these great players to long term deals. But there are many examples in sports, and you only need to look at the team. We just lost two out of three to the Mets who play, who have the highest payroll in baseball, I believe, or at least one of the highest, and haven’t been winners. So you have to run a really high quality organization with consistency, and you got to communicate with your community. You got to partner with your city. So there isn’t one thing, it’s not, you know, and I, I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for quite some time, given the excitement and the positivity they’ve brought to our city, and I’d like to see the team, you know, make a run in the playoffs. That’d be a lot of fun. You know, you’re asking like, what do we want Nestor Aparicio down there, and feel like we’re not suckers. We want to feel like this is a good team and or part of a thing that other people care about. You want to go down there with your family and say, I’m going to the O’s game. And you don’t want people to look at you, like, why would you do that? You want to be like, Yeah, I want to go too, you know. So I think we’re on a path toward that, and we’re not quite there yet. Like, that’s where I think we’re at.
Nestor Aparicio 28:16
I think that was, like, one of the great last 45 seconds on my airwaves this year of we want to feel like we’re not suckers. Yeah, I feel like you’re you’re invested, and we’re invested. That’s
Greg Abel 28:28
right, that’s what we want, yeah? And you don’t feel like that Raven. Look, ravens look, it’s once a week. It’s very different dynamic, you know. So people do pay $150 to sit in a pretty good, you know, decency, because it’s once a week. It’s like a, you know, an explosion of energy that’s built up over the course of a week, whereas the day in, day out nature of baseball is very different. So anyway, maybe I should have stepped up. You feel
Nestor Aparicio 28:51
disappointed with the ravens, but you feel satiated, even when they run the ball three times in any fg champion game, even when Billy Clinton misses a kick, even when Lamar gets hurt and the season goes to poop, right? Don’t say those things, no. But like, but you always feel like you’re not being duped as a Ravens fan,
Greg Abel 29:09
correct? I mean, I haven’t felt duped as an Oriole fan in the last 40, yeah, three years, yeah. But over 30,
Nestor Aparicio 29:16
over the amount of time and money in your lifetime that you’ve invested in the Orioles, right? They owe you. They’re upside down. Yeah, there were some Rubenstein should know that. Rubenstein should be aware of that
Greg Abel 29:29
the context matters, I think, is the point that’s right, and
Nestor Aparicio 29:32
also the you know, where the context really matters, when you’re out trying to get $100,000 from a bank, or when you’re out trying to do business locally, or when a fan says, next month, I have X amount of dollars to spend y on sports and beer, am I going to go to the Ravens Raiders game, or am I going to save that money for an oral wild card game? You know, I don’t know, but this was all the conversation last year, because I don’t know if you know. Greg, but there’s only so much money to go around. Correct rock stars and Beyonce for, you know, dinners out. I’ve seen some businesses struggling this summer, restaurant businesses down, and a lot of places I’m hearing that. I mean, bidenomics and like the election, everybody’s taking a position and all that. But the reality is, we all want the orals to go to the World Series, right? You want to go right, right? I bet you want to go to a World Series game, right? I bet I would love to. You’d like to go to two or three, I bet, right. You need a
Greg Abel 30:29
better bullpen for that. But, yeah, budget on that, bud, I don’t know. I mean, it would be, how much
Nestor Aparicio 30:34
money will the Orioles cost you in October? If you want to go to four games, you want to go to one wild card, one ALDs, one ALCS, and One World Series game. I’ve already got you for that. If you get in the front door the right way, you’re already at about 1500 bucks for
Greg Abel 30:50
you. Now you’ll take, oh, right. And then if I’m going to bring my son or so you’re talking about,
Nestor Aparicio 30:54
who can feel welcome with that, maybe you can. And maybe you take nice vacations. And I have to, right? I’m a Dundalk guy that’s traveled the world. People think, oh, you know, great. But when it and I go to concerts, and they all think I sit in the front row and pay 500 I don’t. I’m a cheap MFR in that way, and I attach the value to it. And I remembered last year when the ticket books were coming out, I had lifer, lifer Dundalk friends who love the Orioles, who have 13 game plans, who are Birdland members that take advantage of the free soda in the club level. Because I went with my friend Melanie, and she said to me, sadness in September, I was there for the clinch game with her, and she said to me, I can’t afford playoff tickets. I won’t be able to come. And I’m thinking to myself, well, I mean, right off the bat, the people that are going to the playoff games are only the people that can afford it. And more than that, it’s it will be expensive here in October. So there is only a finite amount of money, and these two teams now are really going to have a legitimate battle over that money, because the Orioles is sort of said, We’re the Orioles. So you want to come? Come. We’re in last place first. Whatever the Ravens tried harder. PSLs, I mean, all the cost to entry to the Ravens in the 90s, ridiculous, right? I mean, Angela’s pointed at them and said, PSLs, you have my season ticket. You don’t have to pay me to for the right to come.
Greg Abel 32:16
You know, it’s a very different product, yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 32:18
yeah. And I think we’re it’s a very different world for a 24 year old, for your kids sure want to stand on a deck and drink beer watching the games, or watch it on their phone or bet on it, right? So I don’t, I don’t know the future. I just, I’m asking Mr. Rubenstein and Mr. Araghetti, what’s this going to be over the next 10 years, as you see it as a mature product, because we’re on the road to that, and part of the mature product is you better sign somebody for $50 million a year, and we better figure out how to pay for it, because it’s not
Greg Abel 32:48
right. Yep, that’s the truth. And I think what we want to see this fall is such an important sports season, so hopefully Nestor we have a team in the Orioles that can make a little playoff run, and the Ravens keep bringing the pride to the city, and it’d be wonderful to see them succeed as well. And people, you know, by extension, start feeling better and better about going to downtown Baltimore so the businesses and the communities can thrive. I mean, that’s sort of the maybe I don’t mean to be Pollyanna, that’s just sort of all these things are connected, and so that’s why
Nestor Aparicio 33:19
they’re here. If I were sitting with Mr. Rubenstein on a second glass of wine, I’d say, you talk about philanthropy. That’s what you know, you said you bought a billion dollar team to sell it for billions more and make money while you’re here and enrich billion dollar but it’s a philanthropy. If you really believe that, tell me how this is going to make the city better. It’s only going to make the city better if it thrives. And it hasn’t thrived in so long that I’m not sure anybody knows how to turn that spigot back on once Larry, the keynote, turned that on. And you know how he did it, he went out and shook people’s hands and like a politician and said, I need you with us, right? That’s
Greg Abel 33:55
what has to happen with the new ownership in the Orioles leadership, because it’s not going to be Rubenstein. It’s going to be the people he hires. It’s going to be the team, like he’s a private equity guy. He’s going to be owns it, and then he puts leadership in place, and they do it. And so that’s what we’ll see. So I really, I do, think things are headed in the right direction. And, you know, it’s always been an emotional tie for me to be down there. It’s a memory factory, right? Like my wife was joking the other day, we’re looking at like the memories of our kids growing up, and one’s in second year of college, the other’s a senior in high school. So it’s, it’s a bittersweet time for us, because with these transitions are happening, and we look back at memories we have, and there are a lot at at ball games, and that’s what these things are, it’s nostalgia, it’s memories, it’s family, and so I think that’s why it’s so important to me and for many others. So we’ll see how it plays out.
Nestor Aparicio 34:47
Do you remember where you were when Cheeto Landrum hit the home run? Do you remember where you were when Mike Devereaux, you know? You know, like I, I, we all have that’s the thing we share. Right, as baseball fans, whether they hate me on Twitter or love me or especially if they’re, if they’re my age, you know, Jim Palmer’s not some old fogey guy, to me. He’s the guy used to go out and see pitch in 1974 you know, so this and Ben, I mean, the broadcaster, great. I mean,
Greg Abel 35:18
there’s so much K for Brown’s funny. He’s He’s very talented. Yeah, there’s
Nestor Aparicio 35:22
so much K Fabe in the media, and I’m going to be talking to Mark Viviano about them to be writing about that as I’m the band one now everybody, Jerry Coleman, everybody else can get in. Nestor, that’s
Greg Abel 35:31
your brand. You don’t want them to let you in. You want to complain about being banned. That’s your whole thing.
Nestor Aparicio 35:37
You think that’s what I want my thing to be. I
Greg Abel 35:39
don’t know. Really, I don’t think you want to be banned, but I think it gives you a platform from which to operate. You’re like, I’m the band guy, and therefore you don’t want that. You’re like, I’m too hot for them to handle.
Nestor Aparicio 35:54
No, I mean, I’m going to be writing about this because at heart, at heart, you know, I love the Orioles, right?
Greg Abel 36:00
I know, yes, I do know that at
Nestor Aparicio 36:03
some point in my life, wouldn’t I like them to love me back? I mean, seriously,
Greg Abel 36:07
I think so
Nestor Aparicio 36:09
not love me back. How about just let me in and let me do my job, right? Love me. That seems fair, you know, like I already, you know, I’ve already given my whole life to this, right? So I can do it from the outside. I’d rather this is what I told the Whistler. I said, Listen, I’m not going to come down there and be mistreated on a daily basis, right? People have asked me from the time Peter died and the team got bought, it was all happened quick, right? Like team was going to get bought. January, Peter died, March, 20 something, and five days later, there’s opening day to bridge collapse. All of this, people are asking me on opening day as I’m walking through the club level, literally, they’re going to let you in, right? I mean, they can’t, like, so people are asking me, and I’m like, I mean, I guess, I mean, I don’t know. And they said to me, well, you’ll go every night, right? And I’m like depends on how they treat me. I’m 55 years old. I’m not going to go down there and be sneered at every by everybody. I dealt with that with the ravens, and they were commanded to sneer at me. They were told to sneer at me. And my life is better. Two years later, my company’s not better, my access isn’t better, my coverage isn’t better for the fans. Maybe John Harbaugh’s life’s better because he doesn’t have me asking why Lamar ran the ball 21 times and is going to play in four days, and then not want to answer it, but at the end of the day, as a fan, as a business, you should want me in that locker room on your behalf, knowing at least if there’s a tough question to be asked, yeah, I would ask it, and not at the fear that they would throw me out if I ask it. And I’ll be honest with you, the last few years with the ravens, when I was in there, every time I ask a tough question, I thought they’re going to want to throw me out for this. At some point, they might throw because they seem Chad Steele was always a guy who was capable of throwing me out, and did so, you know, I mean, so for me, if, if that is the expectation that you can’t look we’re one year out on Kevin Brown being banned from doing his job
Greg Abel 38:08
for Chiron, that whole thing was K Fay,
Nestor Aparicio 38:12
part of what you’re getting, and what you know you’re getting@ravens.com or orioles.com and what you might be getting at press box or the banner or the sun, all of it is, if you ask the wrong question, we’ll throw you out. If we don’t like you, we’ll throw you like that’s crazy. Yeah, that’s
Greg Abel 38:29
crazy. The culture should be that way, correct? You should have the space to ask a difficult question. The coach doesn’t have to answer it, but he has to acknowledge it and look, I think
Nestor Aparicio 38:39
throw me out and ban me. They should tell you why, instead of having you ask me why it happened. Well,
Greg Abel 38:44
and this is a symptom of the modern era where Nestor Aparicio, the radio, the TV, and that’s it. There’s the internet and there’s the team and the apps and their own owned media. And so I think what has happened over the last 30 years, I’ll call it, is that, because the team has its own media mouthpiece. They have their own Hey, you want to know what’s going on the team, just go to the website. We’ll tell you. We’ll send you alerts. We’ll go to the mobile app, do all those things, and we’ll control the message. And so the idea that journalists come in and ask questions that are off topic for what they think they want to talk about, you know, coach will make a face at you if you ask about an injured player, or if you ask about why you
Nestor Aparicio 39:20
ran directed in the middle of a post game in Chicago with five reporters asking why Lamar wasn’t playing that day, when he practiced and gamblers gambled on it, like him playing and he scratched out in Chicago, and reporters were asking Chad Steele said, Don’t you want to ask some questions about us winning the game. Stop the media in the press conference, it says, Don’t you want to ask questions about us winning the game. I think
Greg Abel 39:49
he’s doing his job.
Nestor Aparicio 39:53
That’s poor. You know? You know why he’s not doing his job. Greg, I’ll stop. Full stop. I’ve been doing this 40 years. Life. I’ve been in press conferences hundreds of times a year. I’ve never seen it done. I’ve never did it
Greg Abel 40:07
happen? Was it allowed to express his opinion that can we ask a few questions about the game? But that doesn’t mean that’s what happened. Did it happen?
Nestor Aparicio 40:16
He tried to redirect questions in the middle of a press conference? Yeah. Never seen anything like that at a post game. All I’m
Greg Abel 40:24
saying Nestor is that, like he can say that what actually happens or happened, or how they handle it is what matters. Why
Nestor Aparicio 40:30
am I press pass taken away after that? Yeah. So
Greg Abel 40:33
there you go. There you
Nestor Aparicio 40:34
go. I don’t know what else to say, you know, like, and for me, I have to answer to that every day of my life, right? I walk well, the
Greg Abel 40:42
thing I want fans to know is there is a difference between the journalism of the sun, whatever you think of the sun, the banner, you know, wnst, you know, WFAN. They are independent journalists who are trying to do a good job by giving you a story that is, you know, they’re not just going to take what the team tells you and regurgitate it without some element of analysis. But when you are writing on behalf of the team, and you’re employed by the team, and the Orioles announcers are a little bit of an example. Here they are employed by the Baltimore Orioles. So there’s a line they don’t quite cross in terms of criticism of the team, and that is where the media comes in, and that is why America is a great country, because we have the First Amendment and you’re allowed to criticize. But yes, I would see from your perspective where that felt and probably was heavy handed. I’m not going to deny that. I’m in the communications business, Nestor, so the reason I reacted the way I did is because a lot of times our clients ask us to put out a certain message into the world, and then how that’s received and what people say about it is part of the dynamic
Nestor Aparicio 41:47
of in the era of social media, in the era where anybody can Yelp and anybody can say anything, I get playing defense, I get playing offense, and I also get in my industry, for 40 years, what was acceptable as professional, and when you with the Baltimore Business Journal, what was, what was expected as professional for the community, and front facing the community is, it’s it the bar has moved dramatically. Yeah. I mean, the bar has moved dramatically to the point where, to your point, you just said, Well, Ben McDonald, Kevin Brown work at the pleasure of Mr. Rubenstein and the Orioles and at the pleasure Greg Bader and Brandon Hines.
Greg Abel 42:28
That’s just a fact. That’s
Nestor Aparicio 42:29
a fact. That’s a fact. Same with rock cobaco, who, 20 years ago, argued with me, as did Amber Theo Harris, as to whether they really work for Mr. Angelos or not. They disputed the fact that Peter Angelos was their boss, and I’m like, stop just NFL, and Saint Roger Goodell is not my boss. He is, and so are the other 32 owners of the teams. So I’m not owned by them, right? And I will never be owned by them. And at one point I thought I wanted a gig at the NFL Network. I thought I wanted Viviano gig, and I’ll laugh with him next week about that. But there that, that is my competitive advantage is being thrown out, and the only way I’m going to be allowed in is under my rules, which are I can ask what I want. You can’t threaten to throw me out when I ask legitimate questions, and if you’re not willing to have legitimate questions. And just saying, Garrett downing in send your orioles.com people in set. You know, sit on the lounge because that’s the lounge. Isn’t what I did at the barn and and the audience should probably figure that out. But I don’t think young people, young people didn’t have real media, right? So I
Greg Abel 43:35
correct. So that’s the context sometimes is missing, that it’s all the same, that the guy tweeting or the guy doing a post on Instagram, and then the reporter at the sun, and then the reporter, you know, quote, unquote, reporter who works for the team, or are like the same, it’s the media, and it’s not and so I don’t know, like, there’s a whole other topic, the media is
Nestor Aparicio 43:55
not coming back. Clearly, if I’m the last guy left, that doesn’t work for anyone who has fealty to the team. Because, to your point, if you, and this speaks for Luke, you work at their pleasure. You know, if you’re there, yeah, you’re, you know, even if you it says media, independent media, you’re, you’re there, working at their you have access at their pleasure. You only ask questions at their pleasure that they approve. Mm, hmm, yeah, that’s not good for this. Get $600 million of money to make the press box smaller, send it to the moon, put Kevin burns name on it, and take our money and build something that they have $40 drinks in now instead of $30 drinks. So yeah, there is a point where, when you’re taking public money, you should be able to, you know, when you say you’re transparent, be transparent. You know, well,
Greg Abel 44:45
time will tell Nestor, I do think we’re in a new era. I think that, look, all things considered, we are in a better place as sports fans here in Baltimore than we’ve been in many, many years and so, and
Nestor Aparicio 44:57
we’ve given them a lot of money to fix the stadium. Just make the next one
Greg Abel 45:01
awesome. I would love to lean
Nestor Aparicio 45:03
in. Let’s go ahead parade way. Yeah, I’m with you. Well,
Greg Abel 45:07
I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about all this with you. Nestor, it’s always a good other
Nestor Aparicio 45:13
than fight with me on the internet and shoot cool videos. I mean, when I think of you, I think of like crisis management. I think of getting the word out, I see all of the great companies you work with in trying to speak for a brand whose brands don’t speak for themselves, right? Yeah,
Greg Abel 45:29
what we try to do is enhance the message that a company has and reach new audiences through social media, through media relations, through content, through awards, speaking engagements. And so for a company, whether it’s a law firm or a healthcare firm or a not for profit. You know what we’ll do is we’ll meet, we’ll talk about, what do you want to be known for? And we’ll distill that down to a couple of key messages, and then we take those key messages and we get them out into the world in different ways. That might be making a video, it might be having a press conference, hosting a special event, hiring a spokesperson, and so all these are things that VR firms do. The world like, like we’ve been talking about with the sports world. The communications landscape because of social, because of digital, because of mobile, has really changed. But what remains consistent is telling a great story, kind of understanding what makes people pay attention, what makes a company or an organization stand out and so accentuating those things in a way that’s positive and proactive, and that’s where our company fits in. I
Nestor Aparicio 46:28
had this on my desk. It’s Love is the key. I don’t even know. My wife said, Where’d you get this? And I said, I don’t know, but like having somebody like you on who’s a brand manager, the best brand message I ever heard was a guy at Saatchi and Saatchi, Brian Billick and I were doing this symposium in New York, like, 15 years ago. And you should write this down and Google this, because it’s great. Yes, sir, this will be for everybody. Love marks. Love marks, it is when your brand is loved and respected on the access, on the access, excuse me, of this. You know, you use it, you like it, you love it, you respect it, you demand it. And that’s when, you know, the Orioles and the Ravens are a love mark for Baltimore.
Greg Abel 47:09
Yeah, there’s people with tattoos on their legs with the Oriole bird and the Ravens. And it’s like, you know, you want it to be Harley Davidson and and I don’t know what’s the most popular brand, I got Nike and Coca Cola, where it becomes iconic, and it becomes kind of like part of people’s lives. And so that’s a high bar.
Nestor Aparicio 47:25
I don’t get it. I was once assaulted by the Oriole bird, but you know that, you know like and you laughed at that, but, and then they didn’t pay me the 30 grand. It was, it was a lot. It was lovely. Uh, two decades later, Greg Abel, still my friend. He’s an able communications. He fights with guys like me who make no sense at all, and he tries to make sense for the world. Enable communications. Go check him out. And also go to YouTube and check out the we’re not going to take it
Greg Abel 47:50
video. We’re going to have to link to
Nestor Aparicio 47:53
that. It was your finest work. You
Greg Abel 47:56
know, I might have peaked at that moment. So listen, thanks. Thanks for being the inspiration for such a iconic listen. Nestor, I know we’re wrapping up. I’ll say one last, do I have time for a
Nestor Aparicio 48:07
time? Not mine. I’m eating peach cake and drink and ROFO car. Yeah,
Greg Abel 48:11
let’s wrap up after this. But I’ll say when I did the video, because I come from a journalism background, as we’ve talked about, and I brought my camcorder out to that game, not my phone, by the way, like a camcorder you hold with them. That’s
Nestor Aparicio 48:21
why I’ve been harsh with you in this segment, because you do come from a journalism background, and I shouldn’t have to bullshit you.
Greg Abel 48:27
No, that’s right. And I like the back and forth, and I’m willing to kind of, you know, get go there with you, because I enjoy it. The the interviews I was doing were kind of man on the street type stuff, as if I was like, from a TV station, I was just like a dude with a camera. And back then, if you were a dude with a camera, you stood out, because not everyone literally had a phone camera, where they were like, doing this all day and everything,
Nestor Aparicio 48:47
like a documentary, and it looked like it had a legitimacy.
Greg Abel 48:51
And so one of the people I interviewed was from the museum industry, and he’s in the clip, and I said to him, why is this? Why are you here? Why is this important to you today. And he said, Because this team, this stadium, is a reservoir of memories, we come here to create memory, and I am sad that this has become a place where less people go to because it’s not as fun when you lose for 12 seasons in a row whatever it had been at that time. And that, that phrase, a reservoir of memories have always stuck with me from that day, because that is what it is like I was saying before with my family, like you come there and then those are the pictures you look back on. So there’s a massive responsibility these organizations have to deliver a product that’s prideful for our community. Because, like that person said on the video, it is a reservoir from memories. You
Nestor Aparicio 49:39
know what I love about modern times is I’m recording you, and then we have this little otter transcript that comes out. I’m just going to steal your stuff, your PR showing up. I’m getting $500 an hour advice here for free. So I’m going to shine it all up, put my name on it, on column this, and I’m going to make it part of the letter to Mr. Ruben. I’m. Of reservoir memories. You have a massive responsibility. Eric Getty, do you understand that? So I’m gonna go all sort of Ned Beatty, and network is what I’m gonna do. You lost me, but, Oh, you didn’t. You didn’t. You haven’t seen network. I don’t
Greg Abel 50:17
remember it. I mean, is that like? We’re mad as hell. We’re not going to take it anymore. Yes,
Nestor Aparicio 50:22
but this is where Ned Beatty sits in the boardroom and does to him what Chad Steele has tried to do to me and what the whistler did, which was basically, I own you. We’re the corporations. The corporations own you. He was the TV executive telling his guy we don’t talk like that on our network. So literally at that point. So this massive responsibility you speak of, it’s true, and it should never not be respected. It should be their lead. Their lead is they’re billionaires. They talk philanthropy while asking for $20 for a beer to pay athletes $50 million a year. They have a responsibility to leave more behind than Raphael Palmeiro did.
Greg Abel 51:04
That’s right, they can’t guarantee victory every game, but they can do their very best to make it an enjoyable fan experience and an authentic one, and one where and make it worth $20
Nestor Aparicio 51:13
a beer. That’s right, somehow, I don’t know how they’ll do that, you know, yep, I used to always get pissed at the prices at the movie theaters too. Greg Abel is here able communications, and Alan McCallum will say it’s free in his basement. I’ve enjoyed you. I always enjoy you. I’m sorry we lingered longer, but thank you for the visit. Thank you, Nestor, and if I offended anybody, as long as it made you think about something, I’m Nestor. Baltimore. Back for more. Baltimore, positive.
