With Grayson Rodriguez and Andrew Kittredge unavailable for Opening Day, Dave Sheinin of The Washington Post joins Nestor and Luke at Pizza John’s in Essex on the Maryland Crab Cake Tour to the state of the arms’ race in baseball and where the Baltimore Orioles will get innings this season.
Dave Sheinin from The Washington Post joined Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones to discuss the Orioles’ payroll realities and the future of MLB. They debated the recovery of pitcher Grayson Rodriguez, who underwent Tommy John surgery 18 months ago, noting the mental and physical challenges of recovery. They also discussed the new ownership under Rubenstein, criticizing the lack of significant financial investment and the absence of a direct-to-consumer streaming option. Despite a $150 million payroll, concerns were raised about the team’s long-term sustainability and ability to compete with larger market teams like the Yankees and Dodgers.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
MLB money, Orioles payroll, Tommy John surgery, Bradish injury, mental hurdle, new ownership, Rubenstein expectations, streaming option, revenue model, franchise value, player extensions, fan engagement, stadium renovations, market competition, baseball revenue.
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Dave Sheinin, Speaker 1, Nestor Aparicio, Speaker 2
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Dave sheinin is here from The Washington Post. Luke Jones is here. We’re pizza John’s. We have french fries and gravy that I’ve been eating because they’ve been talking. We had a whole hour on Batista before you got here. It’s probably a third hour in a couple weeks. There’s a guy there with the injury. And Luke, I’m gonna call you out on this, because it’s like, 18 months ago looks like, well, he’s hurt. He’ll come back. They all come back. It’s Tommy John, got a good success rate, whatever. And now we’re here. It’s 18 months. We’re waiting. You’re getting a little impatient. Next week’s opening day, I’m a little everybody’s impatient. The team’s impatient. Team saying, well, we only made four appearances. He’s on the backfield. You’ll be fine. You’re nervous, you’re nervous. Everybody’s nervous. The notion that this surgery is a root canal, and we’re just gonna go out and eat pizza later. No, it’s not, and it’s been made to be that. And I want you to be the old Great British I knew Tommy John. Let me tell you that you could do that if you want. Dave,
Dave Sheinin 00:52
yeah, well, I don’t go back quite that far, but yeah, I
Nestor Aparicio 00:57
had his baseball card, yep. Well, what do you I mean, Batista is the great example of a guy who was that for this organization, as good as they’ve ever, is ever been? And now we’re sitting here saying, Is he even a major league pitcher again? Right? Same thing we’re gonna say about Bradish. Is he ever really gonna pitch again? And if he does, is he even gonna be as good enough to be a big leaguer or have that kind of velocity, and the notion right this minute that Batista is just going to go back ever and be what he was two years ago. I, you know, I always have to question that, medically, physically, knowing what my mind knows, knowing what injuries are. But you you can always make a case that this guy did it and this guy came back, and this guy didn’t get the surgery, and he was okay, but it is individual right now. We’re in it with Batista. We’re in it, especially with Kittredge being hurt. We’re just in it. I’ll defer
Luke Jones 01:50
to Dave to hear his thoughts on Batista, but I do want to point out Tommy John surgery does have an extremely high return rate at this point in time. I mean, this isn’t Tommy John from 35 years ago, where it did feel at that point like this guy’s career might be over. That said, this is why I always tell people that, like last, last year, at this time, there were plenty of sentiments that Bradish should just have Tommy John surgery. Now he’s gonna end up missing part of next year because you want to go and exhaust every other conservative route to potentially avoid surgery, because it’s not 100% I’m not impatient with Batista. It’s much more 17 months removed. This is the end of that general range of a timeline for a return. So if there’s some kind of an issue, and maybe there isn’t, like I said, maybe they’re just being deliberately evasive and coy, because teams like to do that in 2025 from for a competitive edge. But it does feel a little okay. I didn’t expect him to expect expect him to be ramping it up, throwing 102 and pitching back to back days and inning in two thirds on opening day by any stretch. But if he’s not going to be on the opening day roster, that’s when, yeah, I do start to ask, like, is everything okay? Yeah,
Dave Sheinin 03:04
it is very much individualized and and you can’t it’s, you can’t just guarantee that someone’s going to come back 100% I agree with you that it is. It’s almost to that point now. It’s become so sophisticated. But in having spoken to guys who have been through this, there is a mental disconnect and a mental hurdle you still have to get past to be able to let it go at 100% even if the doctor is telling you you’re 100% even if by all other physical metrics, you are 100% there is a mental component that is still preventing you from getting back to your old self, because there’s still a kernel of doubt in your mind about what’s going on in your arm. So I have no idea that that’s going on with Bautista. It wouldn’t surprise me, though, if that was part of what’s going on is that there is still that mental hurdle to get past, and he hasn’t gotten there yet. I don’t know. Yeah,
Luke Jones 04:05
what’s interesting about it? And again, this is all secondhand, but every time I’ve heard him do sessions with the media, he sounds very positive. He sound very matter of fact, like I’ll be ready for opening day. I know, you know, it’s been about a week, as we’re talking in real time now, since his last grapefruit league outing, but he touched it. Was touching 98 I mean, it’s not, I mean, the Velo is not where it was, and maybe he’s not hurt. A lot of guys aren’t 98 and they and they kind of build back. And some of this is also, you know, for as great as the success rate for Tommy John is the first time around, we’re starting to see more and more guys have to get it multiple times. Yes, so maybe there is something to be said, and maybe this is the first step, going back to what you said in terms of guys needing to be more durable and understanding there’s a long term play here. Maybe the rehab needs to change. Maybe the expectations from the rehab, okay, you’re ready to pitch again. The idea isn’t necessarily that you’re going to be humping it at 102 all the time. Like you were a pre injury. So there’s and if, and if that’s the case, and that’s all it is, then fine, and he should be ready for opening day or soon thereafter, and he should be fine, even if you’re not going to get the guy he was two years ago, which injury or not, he may never have done that again. I mean, that was his story, so that’s right, but, but, yeah, the prevalence of seeing more and more guys. I mean, Spencer Strider wasn’t, I don’t think he had Tommy John last year, but he had his UCL repaired, so it was, you know, along the same lines, you know, guys like that. It’s like, okay, what’s it gonna look like now when you’re being cut on multiple times? So maybe there is something to that, in a big picture sense, that maybe the Orioles are thinking about, or other teams are, maybe they should be. I have no idea if that’s at work, but, but he himself, has been very positive about it, whereas it seems like, you know, when you hear Brandon high talk, it’s been, or drew French to their pitching coach, it’s been a little more well, we’re see, we’ll see. We’re still ironing this out. And again, who knows? Maybe pitches twice, you know, the in their last three Spring Games, and he’s ready to go, but it seems like it’s been a little bit too much that again, I’m not impatient, but I’m starting to get a little nervous, like okay, is starting to not feel exactly the way I thought it would three weeks ago when he first made a spring debut.
Dave Sheinin 06:15
There could also be a scenario going on where they are bringing him back. Slow, slow, more slowly than they need to. Because, again, like we were saying at the beginning of this segment that everybody’s making the playoffs, the Orioles, you know, they’re going to be in the thick you need him in August, September and especially October, yeah, more than you need him in March and April. And
Luke Jones 06:37
he’s never and he’s never done that. I mean, right? 2022 was his rookie year. They they were in contention, but they didn’t make it, and then he got hurt in late August of 23 which go, look at his workload. He had thrown almost as many innings as he had the entire previous year. So I think that’s very plausible, but still at the same time, when you consider how important he is and how much you know, if we have some angst about it, as you know, media of rap, let alone fans who are really going to start to have some angst, maybe the messaging could be a little bit better in that regard than just throwing that
Nestor Aparicio 07:11
out there. We are at Pizza John’s in Essex. It’s all brought to you by friends at the Maryland lottery of the magic eight balls, Dave shining of Baltimore, but of the Washington Post and Luke Jones, course we’ve had French fries and gravy, delicious meat sauce, pizza with pepperoni, per chef. Luke Jones here and a baseball season. Luke, excuse me. Dave, ownership, new ownership expectations. I think the last time I had you on the show was June of last year. You visited me during Fleet Week down at Coopers. We did a show that Coopers and Fells Point. Yeah, at that point, the Orioles were on, you know, on top of the world, on fire. I remember visiting with you about a year and a half ago with rasig, and we asked you whether the Orioles or the Ravens were gonna win the World Series first. And I think you said neither flippantly, like, it’s really hard to do. We’re still at that neither for you, but the one thing I didn’t see coming, and I said to see you know my wife, because my wife was asking me about my press credential this week, and I’ve had all my negotiations and stuff. And I said to my wife what I said a year ago, like, this week, I didn’t think Peter was ever gonna die. Like, I never like, and I don’t mean that even flip you laughing, but I mean, like, I never thought ever who’s going to own the team next? What kind of person is it going to be? Where is he going to be from? What kind of entities are going to be? How are they going to invest? What kind of people like all of that, it never occurred to me. Now we’re a year into it, and Rubenstein had a speech on Thursday at a golf club that letter Raskin was at, that he was going to join us next week and talk about it. Just observations, dude, you were here when Angelos took over. That’s all we’ve had, other than five minutes of Eli Jacobs. Whatever this new thing is, you’re a little underwhelmed, because they didn’t spend a bunch of money from a from a baseball standpoint, you live in the city, and they’re marketing this and that and whatever, I’m fully expecting next week, on Wednesday, when we’re there every Red Sox from town that there’ll be 12,000 people there would like it always is, I mean, I don’t, I don’t. I’m in Essex right now. I don’t feel any like, whoo, he bought our tickets. We’re free. We got a new owner. I don’t new ownership is he’s gonna have a bobble head this year, whatever. I think it’s boosted some confidence from baseball fans. I don’t think they created any new fans. I don’t think they’ve done anything that they say they’re going to do with Katie Griggs. And what is, what’s the grand plan? And I talk a lot about streaming and media money and the mass and money that was split with Washington, if I were to sit with them, privately, publicly in any way. So what’s the plan here, dude? And Luke says, well, they don’t ever give it the plan. And I’m like, well, there’s usually some smokescreen, some signs of things are gonna do. I don’t even know what to do with the stadium. They got a lot of money to do that. Yeah, so there’s a lot of news to be had here about new owners, if we’re waiting on some massive change, I don’t know. I mean, I’m a little underwhelmed on the massive change part of things. I am pretty. Clear Peter’s not here anymore. They’re spending $150 million of players this year, right, right? So it’s better, right? But is it good enough, or is it going to be good
Dave Sheinin 10:06
enough? Yeah, I think, I think they got Ruben Singh got a lot of love for not being Angelo’s, like, that was the that. That’s what everybody took to him for. Oh, my God, you’re not Angelo’s, you know, let’s, let’s, let’s party, man, you’re our Savior. And he got a lot of mileage out of out of that. And there was a long honeymoon, I think, though that, you know, this was the winter where I think people wanted to see, see him come through. I wanted maybe I’m just speaking for myself. I feel like I’m speaking for a lot of the fan base. We have been waiting for two years. I mean, yeah, I mean, it was like this was the winter. You have all the pieces in place. You’ve built the core. You’ve done it the hard way. You’ve put fans through the 110, lost seasons, multiple and you’re at the point now where it’s the grand bargain with your fan base, with your clubhouse and with your GM, is that, if they do their jobs, and they and they clearly did, I’m gonna do my job as the owner. I’m gonna open up and look, I know the payroll went up and then, and because they had to pay everybody their their arbitration raises and everything else, I just think there could have been some more urgency this off season, and especially with a new owner to come in and say, Look, we’re going for it.
Luke Jones 11:25
I think there are two things that they could have done, talking about Ruben signing the new ownership group that really could have meant a lot, that even wouldn’t have been going out and signing an outside free agent to a monster deal extension to one of their homegrown players. And now, easier said than done. When you’re talking about a bunch of Scott, Boris, Boris, I think that
Nestor Aparicio 11:43
that’s never gonna happen, right? Dave. I mean, Boris, no, no. I
Speaker 1 11:47
mean, it’s very, very timing of Strasburg. Yeah. I
Nestor Aparicio 11:51
just think if that’s an expectation that’s like, you know, going to Mars, they
Luke Jones 11:55
almost never, they almost never get. Some guys have though, but so and again, acknowledging that, but I think if you’re, if you’re being honest about what would be very meaningful to the fan base that. And then the other thing complicated by obviously, they came to a resolution with massen. We know the NATs are playing out one more year, being shown on massen, and then they’re going to be on their own. We’re going to see what’s going to happen with both teams in terms of but the Orioles and the NATs are only are two of the four remaining teams in Major League Baseball do not have a direct to consumer option streaming. I think if you had done that, and again, we’re talking about Orioles, but that’s what they would have benefited from this as well. But you do that and you have an extension for one of your homegrown players. It doesn’t necessarily have to be gunner, westburg, Colton, cowser is probably someone that you probably could right now do an extension for that would be way cheaper than those guys I mentioned, or, you know, rushman, you know, if you want to talk about him, but I think those for talking about the to cap the first year of the new ownership group would have been two items that really would have gone a long way. That I’m not saying you’re selling out and drawing 3.5 million people like the late 90s. I don’t know if we’re ever going to see that again here in Baltimore, but I think those would have been two measures, especially that latter one, feeling like it should have been plausible, and that’s business. It’s messy because you’ve got lingering TV distributor deals with DIRECTV and but boy, I feel like that really could have gone a long way, because couldn’t tell you how many people, just in my own personal circle, not not even interacting with fans, just people in my own life, people at church, who are constantly asking me, like, When are the Orioles going to have an option where I don’t have to subscribe to a cable distributor that I just spent 200 bucks a month, and I don’t watch any of those other channels,
Nestor Aparicio 13:46
so Dave, I’ll let you respond to that, but I literally sent a text last night with your complaint, right? And this is a long time Major League Baseball executive who, at one point issued Dave and I both press passes back in the day, and I sent him Daniel Allen tuck who I don’t know, but it was her tweet, 26 of 30 teams now have a direct to consumer option. The Orioles are one of the last holdouts. And I sent this to my friend, who was a longtime executive, said they’re last in line for everything. And he wrote back to me, we used to be first in everything when he worked there, right? Yeah. So you can see who my person is here, but their last in line for everything was my line. Everybody sees that, and that was part of the Angelos thing, right? They have so many things they have to get right with Rubenstein stadium renovations. The City rely you pay taxes in the city. The city needs the Orioles to thrive. They need to be this Cardinals thing that you speak of, and not that pirate thing or that Brewer thing, or that Rockies thing or that race thing, or that easy. They need to be. And as my my dear friend, our dear friend, wrote back, the franchise should be a crown. On jewel. It hasn’t been that since you were a teenager. Luke, right? And I want to see that shine. And part of that for me was spending 45 minutes of my week fighting with someone who knows I’m a media member about whether I’m a media member or not. And it reminds me of the last 32 years, of like, how are you going to be? What kind of people are you going to be? Is Katie Greeks going to come out to Essex and shake hands with people? Are they going to hide and take their $3 million salary and dictate from above and buy the digital strategy and shake hands from afar? I had a screenshot that one of their business administration people that I’m going to share with my dear Katie Griggs ladder next week, but it just had to do with how little the players really touch people, and how little the team touches people, and really, how few what I am right here right now, which is an advocate for the Orioles, how few former players live here and sort of circulate around CBJ, but that was the thing that ate off of this. Was that in the 90s, when I met you and we’re doing the show, all those guys lived here, Joe or select, they made lives here when they were done, let alone the crawleys and the belangers and the, you know, all of that. Bor dick is here. BJ is here, but they don’t have ambassadors, and their players are never going to be that again, because they don’t live here, and they’re minute to minute. I mean, all their pictures they rented for a week. I mean, who we whose Jersey am I buying right now for a picture? And they brought Adam Jones back. That’s a nice, yeah, nice. It was
Dave Sheinin 16:36
a really good movie. He seems like the last guy. He seems like the last guy that you’re talking about. We married a Baltimore girl too, so that, yeah, that going on, yeah. But, I mean, he seems like the last of the ambassador types who stick around and become part of the face of the franchise. And
Luke Jones 16:52
I think that’s being I don’t think that’s exclusive to the Oriole, but that’s problematic here. Shows no question, really, probably problematic when you’ve had look. I was born in 1983 I was born literally two weeks before the Orioles last one the World Series. I’m going to be 42 in October, and I have a bunch of gray hair. And for most of my lifetime, saved for a handful of years, distinguished gray I’m fine with it, but for most of my lifetime, saved for a handful of years, they’ve been pretty miserable, like they they’ve stunk. They’ve been one of the worst franchises in sports over the last 40 years, when we’re talking in terms of on field success or lack thereof, the worst in
Nestor Aparicio 17:31
that but they’re off the final reputation is worse. Sure, that’s what I’m saying. But getting people’s money in their business the heart of baseball fans, that’s why I think they stumped for 42 years, and I’m still saying that’s
Luke Jones 17:42
why I think the streaming thing challenging as it might have been for an array of reasons and understanding that, you know, the mass and dispute was, I mean, this was something that went for the better part of 15 years in terms of courts and litigation and all of that. But, boy, you talk about a gesture that I think would have gone a long way short of even doing the extension if you just had that. And look gesture part of it aside, you’re gonna have a lot of people who aren’t gonna be watching your games this year who otherwise would have that hurts. Yeah, right. And even if that, even if you say, Okay, well, charging 20 bucks a month for a direct, direct to consumer streaming option isn’t the same as what everyone in the region giving you $3 a month on your cable or satellite bill like it was 15 years ago. But there’s also a long term seed being planted there in terms of engagement with fans and young fans who you know anyone my age and younger, they’re not. They don’t want cable and satellite like no, I finally cut the cord this off season because I finally had internet in my area. That kind of made it a little more plausible for me. But then
Dave Sheinin 18:47
there’s things that we have to do to get the game. Yeah, right. It’s a headache.
Nestor Aparicio 18:51
Friday Apple TV and like, oh well, Dave, shining. Dave, I want to bring you in on this because, like, we talk so much about the field and the pitching and the team and Ali rutchman and the ownership and all the nonsense. But I’m not sure that they know what they’re doing about any of the revenue model here, because he just gave me the wallet $20 a month, because that’s what your mom can afford. Your mom can afford $20 a month, six months a year, 120 bucks. Mom is in for that. Where does mom break it? 299-390-9449, at what point does she look at it and say, no, no to all of it, no to all of it. And then it’s what will charge you. Five bucks for a game. On Friday, I paid $5 for a game, even though it seems nominal. I’m not that guy. I don’t buy movies one at a time at home. I’m not one of those. Click on the paper. You know. I didn’t, I didn’t do any of that, but the business itself, and I’ve talked a lot of baseball business people in the back end of massen, $5 beers in the Birdland exclusive club, that was a great move, right? Yeah, that ain’t buying gunner Henderson. Mom’s $20 a month now, at $120 a year. And there’s you. 130 180 210,000 people willing to do that. The Orioles don’t have 4.5 million fans in the world. Yeah, you know the way the Yankees have 12,000,020
Luke Jones 20:10
to $30 a month is the price point you’re seeing around baseball. Okay,
Nestor Aparicio 20:12
good. What is that? What? How does that ring? This is where
Luke Jones 20:17
this is a larger baseball issue. I mean, other
Nestor Aparicio 20:20
than the Yankees, the Dodgers. Revenues coming. I think Major League Baseball
Luke Jones 20:23
doesn’t know where. I think every sport other than the NFL and the NFL and the NBA who did quite well on their most recent right TV rights deal, they’re all figuring it out at this point, because everything was all the NFL is niche. I mean, Major League
Nestor Aparicio 20:37
Baseball took the RSN business and made that business bankrupt because it wasn’t good enough. It wasn’t strong enough. They couldn’t sell it for enough. So when these ESPN goes out and buys the rights or rescinds the rights from Major League Baseball, as he did two weeks ago, I know what that deal is, because I talked rights fees in the 90s, when I had a radio station and Bao was paying $3 million a year. So back in the 90s, when you were on the beat. Jeff Beauchamp over there, and Ed Kiernan would go to Peter and that time. Joe Fauci, here’s 3 million bucks just to have your games on the radio. We get all 162 games middle of the night. Seattle team could totally stink. Now, I got to go out to Black and Decker, to DAP, to Budweiser. I got to get 600 grand from that. I got to call wise markets and get 250 grand for them just to try. And I gotta pay John Miller. And then, you know, the, you know, they fire him because he wanted 400 grand, and they didn’t want to give it to him. So that the cost of all of that just in in micro or macro, I should say micro, actually, in Baltimore, 30 years ago, to say that’s what their revenue model was, even when they had the sky boxes sold and all it was, b, a, l, writing a huge check and then having to go bust their ass to try to make $3.1 million and make money off of it. The money was guaranteed for the baseball side. Now baseball with this RSN model, for the first time ever, they got to hit their weight. They’re gonna have to go out and sell it themselves. I’m not convinced that that’s going to be real good for them. And they’re streaming numbers when they actually see how many people really watching the game, they’re going to want to hide. They are just like when they sold Southwest Airlines those ads and said, you know, 2.4 million people are coming into the stadium when 900,000 are showing up, right? So those numbers and those metrics for businesses to support this, for putting a sign up or an add up, I don’t know where that business is. For them, I worry for them. And to your point of giving money away or not, I crying for Rubenstein, but how this thing is ever going to be anything at nut on nut. In other words, the Orioles generate 190 million. They spend under 90 million. They’re never going to be able to compete like that here, because Washington happens. One thing Angelos was right about when he told me, he said, if both teams have if both cities have teams, it’s really going to diminish Baltimore. And that’s the argument every East Baltimore oriole fan to make, yeah, Peter got screwed on the money we all got no Peter took all the money. He’s dead. John’s counting it, and now they are small market team. Finally, they really are,
Speaker 2 23:05
and it’s amazing to think about. I mean, we were talking about the late 90s, and those payrolls were top five in the game. They ran top five payrolls in all the base because they were top five revenue, right? They were. They were averaging 3 million plus every single game, seven states, three bucks from every year, every year. Yeah, 3 million. A 10, yeah, sold out sky boxes, because DC they had all DCS money, right? And then by oh one, the Ravens had come in, stolen the sky boxes won a championship. Peter pissed everybody off, and the sky boxes emptied out. And then the nets, three years
Dave Sheinin 23:41
later, years later than That’s right? So the question is, can the Orioles ever get back to that? No. And I think the answer is no. I’m not sure that is ever coming back.
Nestor Aparicio 23:52
Well, then how are they going to keep gunner I mean that this is an existential issue for me with the Orioles to say we’re giving them $600 million to fix the stadium up, they’ve got really good players. We’ll all integrate as good a players that they’ve ever had. And if they don’t cash this in and move that needle, and I don’t even know what that’s worth, dude, you and I were in Kansas City 10 years ago, and we were there, was all blue, and it anyone for a minute, and they spent a little bit of money in pocket, a little bit, and they fixed the stadium up, and now they’re just a drag Midwest team in the middle, and they have one last year, but they’re not making money. They can’t afford their they’re in the same situation the Orioles are in that if they got good gunner Henderson would go play for the Dodgers or whatever. And you mentioned these young guys signing here. Want to be here. Maybe gunner Henderson doesn’t want to commit to here right now. Some of these guy maybe, like legitimately saying, I don’t know where we are, where this is, and that I want to be here in 2032 maybe some of these guys don’t, not just money and borrows just they’re not committed. I’m not committed to the oral I don’t know what they are. I guess that’s my point. I don’t know what David Rubenstein is going to be, or what this is going to become, because so far, even you, you know you love them in your little tepid on like they could have done. More, yeah,
Dave Sheinin 25:02
I don’t know. I don’t know that that young players anymore are geared that way to think about, I’m gonna stay with this franchise the rest of my career. I don’t think. I don’t the Royals. Bobby Witt, actually, whit may be the Yeah, he but, but that’s so rare anymore. His dad’s play for the Rangers. They stay there. It’s not just Boris clients either. It’s everybody. I mean, yeah, I don’t know. I mean, the
Nestor Aparicio 25:30
money’s only going like this forever. And I don’t, yeah, I don’t know how it keeps going like that, because they don’t have ideas that are like that. Yeah, yeah, that’s where I
Dave Sheinin 25:39
am. I mean, the Juan Soto contract was just mind boggling. Well, if you
Nestor Aparicio 25:42
have a sugar daddy, I mean, that’s what I’m trying to figure out with Rubenstein. San Diego had a sugar daddy for a minute. Detroit had a sugar daddy, right? And it’s different. Look. We could sit here all day. He loves the NBA. I love the NHL. You cover the NFL. We cover we all cover the NFL. It’s all baseline, right? It’s all salary cap, salary cap, and spend more coaches mental and more on sports matters, whatever you want to do, baseball is the one thing where it’s just this absolutely gross divide of imbalance in regard to the the long arc of how many years you can spend against the Yankees and Dodgers and say, well, Yankee didn’t want anything, yeah, but they went every year. You’re uphill against all them. And college sports is we’re sitting here watching basketball. I mean that the haves and have nots of college basketball and college football, but baseball is just still going to suffer from the original sin, which is they could never figure out the Hawks in the the doves back in 1993 to get this thing set so that we’re not having these open arguments about how much revenue can they take from Luke’s mother in order to be able to keep players because, like, it really is going to take revenue. You laugh about Luke’s mother. It like it’s going to take this, this little revenue that they thinks gonna feed into this? Because there’s no big revenue in Baltimore. I know this. There nobody’s coming, other than leg Mason to put a patch on them. There’s just not money coming of that kind that’s gonna support a 250, $300 million payroll, and there’s not a sugar daddy media company to come in to do it right now. So it is gonna take a sugar daddy owner. He’s gonna have to spend more than they’re making, and I don’t know if he’s willing to do that. I haven’t sat with him.
Dave Sheinin 27:27
No, we have no evidence that he’s willing to do that. But you know, this is the grand bargain in baseball ownership, is that you you might not make the revenues that you hope or feel like you need to be able to spend to the point you need, but the franchise values keep going up. And now I understand that that may, that may stop at some point, but it hasn’t yet. Franchise values. Did you see what the Celtics sold for just the other day? I mean, and I know that’s a different sport, but it’s true of all sports. Sports franchises continue to go up in value. So there’s a sense that you can spend against that future value of your franchise and justify over spending your revenue like Rubenstein Can, can spend what he wants to spend, right just like Steve Cohen with the Mets. Can
Luke Jones 28:19
look how much money the Dodgers are deferring at this point in time, and they actually are already spent
Nestor Aparicio 28:23
1,000,000,008 on this thing. He’s already out over escape me, bought it for more than the revenues. He paid more than it’s generating. That’s for sure, right? But Angelo’s bought the team for 29 million in cash, 174 if you believe that math, it’s wrong, and wound up selling it for 1,000,000,008 I did the math, they made a million dollars a day every day for 32 years. Wow, it was a million dollars a day, every day, right? For 32 years, is what they made. And that’s in addition to all the money they pocketed. Because they pocketed well in excess of a billion dollars, despite they were pocketing 50 to $100 million a year in Oh, 6789, they had 90% of the mass and at that time, and they were and they controlled all of it. They were screwing the Nationals on it and pocket in their own money. So they were just pocketing money for a long time. And then in the end, as I wrote, John hit a walk off Grand Slam, and he’s in the dugout counting the money right now at 2 billion, because it, you know, they made a half, a half a billion, like, just it toward the end. By the way, the ravens are now worth 8 billion. Yeah, I looked at my guy who told me that the Odessa, you just said five last year. He’s like, Well, you know, I mean, that’s where that thing’s going, because that thing’s printing money. Yeah, baseball’s not printing money, no. And he paid, he overpaid for this. He paid a huge, he’s got a huge debt service to this right at 1,000,000,008 Rubenstein that to himself, I’m talking about as to what this thing’s gonna spin out, or the 600 million that’s coming in, where this guy three years from now, when he’s 78 just. Guys, I’m done. Flip it for 3.2 billion, you know, and he’s gonna make money on right, right now, whether he’s gonna win or not, it’s gonna be up to him. He’s gonna have to invest to win, right? It’s not gonna be the fans. He’ll go to the fans and say, Give us more money and we’ll spend it. We’re not on that play. He’s gonna have to be a sugar daddy of some kind, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah,
Dave Sheinin 30:22
you you can do that, and you can justify it by the growth in in the sale price that that is inherent to sports franchise ownership. Maybe it, maybe it does end at some point, but it is not ending right now. So he has in his back pocket, that hypothetical 3 billion sale price three years from now that can justify spending if 100
Nestor Aparicio 30:49
million more than you need to for five years. Yeah. I mean, that was my thought on all of it. You spent 2 billion on the team. Take a half a billion right off the bat and say, I’m going 100 million too big every year, the first five years. I mean,
Dave Sheinin 31:01
that’s what Steve Cohen did on a larger scale. So
Nestor Aparicio 31:06
Rubenstein certainly didn’t do that. No, no, they shine. It’s here. We’re eating potato chips and french fries and pretzels and pizza. And we got, what do we have? What are you taking home? You’re gonna get a chicken parm. What are you doing? Insane pizza. It’s gonna get the pizza he got here. We got the pepperoni.
Luke Jones 31:19
These things are really good here, though, too. They’re really good. They’re good. What do you
Nestor Aparicio 31:23
get? Dates? Do you like cheesesteaks? Yeah, of course. Who doesn’t get your cheesesteak here? We’re Pizza John saw brought to you by the Maryland lottery. My buddy Stan is showing up. Ken’s here. Everybody’s here, half a Dundalk I brought over to Essex. I can’t believe the Dundalk guys come over here. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery, the match eight ball, the scratch offs. My thanks to Pizza John’s for their enduring support. Their 113, back river neck road here in beautiful Essex is my mom would say, 410-687-7733, my wife’s always like, you called in a pizza John’s order some pizza, and I just know the number. She’s like, how do you know the number? I’m like, I’ve been calling it since 1978 or whatever. So, 410-687-7733, it’s an easy number. Come on down. Order online. And if you know Dave has relatives that live other places, and Stanley’s out in Chicago where they have pretty good pizza. But man, Stan, it says right here, if you’re, you’re, you’re thinking about Essex when you’re out there in Chicago freezing your ass off pizza. Johns.com, bank at home. Pizzas nationwide. They serve them everywhere. My thanks to Dave. Appreciate you. Maybe we’ll go to a ball game or something awesome. How’s your band? What you got an album coming out? No,
Dave Sheinin 32:28
man, I’m kind of, I’m kind of sidelined there, for the time being. I got to put kids through college. I can’t, I can’t. The Washington Post
Nestor Aparicio 32:35
has become the Yoko owner of your band.
32:39
Wow, breaking the band up, yeah,
Dave Sheinin 32:42
that’s a, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a mind bender there, yeah, yeah, the owner of my band,
Nestor Aparicio 32:48
Yeah, but you’re on baseball. You’re on a limp. What are you doing?
Dave Sheinin 32:50
I don’t know, Olympics and like features and projects. Yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 32:54
I saw you write about baseball three weeks ago. I mean, he’s back, and I was
Dave Sheinin 32:58
one story. It was one, yeah, it was, it was about analytics, right? Well, you spoil me when you do baseball, yeah. Well, you know a lot about baseball. Yeah, you know better than you know anything. I came to dislike it towards towards the end, 2020, 2021, until they, they fixed the product. Yeah, I was, I was turned off. I was ready to get out of it. I’ll
Nestor Aparicio 33:20
be turned off in Toronto next week when the a half a candidate is booing my baseball team. Luke will be in the press box in Toronto eating the really good hot dogs. I’ll be down in the front with with Mrs. Blue Jay doing okay, Blue Jays, let’s play ball. See, he’s been in Toronto. He doesn’t know about the song I am Nestor. We’re signing off from pizza John’s. I knew I’d make him sing. He’s a real singer. We are W n s t, am 1570 Taos in Baltimore. I’m dropping the pizza and the French fries back for more on w n s t, stay with us. You.
