Now that season has ended all-too-abruptly, we reach to all of the greatest football minds we know to discuss the Baltimore Ravens’ historic-but-truncated run at a Super Bowl with the unique offense of Todd Monken. Greg Cosell of NFL Films takes Nestor through the passes and runs of Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry with some insights from the eye in the sky and the master of The Matchup.
Greg Cosell of NFL Films discussed the Baltimore Ravens’ offense, particularly the contributions of Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry. He praised Jackson’s unique abilities and the impact of Henry, comparing him to Jim Brown. Cosell highlighted the Ravens’ run-first strategy and the importance of their offensive line investments. He noted the challenges defenses face against Jackson and Henry, emphasizing their combined effectiveness. Cosell also touched on the Ravens’ potential offseason moves, including Henry’s contract situation, and the broader NFL landscape, mentioning the run-heavy approaches of teams like the Eagles and Bills.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry, Ravens offense, NFL Films, Greg Cosell, unique player, run game, offensive line, Todd Monken, situational football, Mark Andrews, explosive plays, Super Bowl, offseason plans, 33rd team
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Greg Cosell
Nestor Aparicio 00:02
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore. Positive. This is, sadly, the off season, at least here it is in Baltimore, not in Buffalo, not Kansas City, and this is not for yet, and certainly not in Philadelphia and Washington. A crazy little matchup we got going on this weekend. It’s making matchups. I’ve had this guy as a friend for over a quarter of a century, because I’ve known you as long as I’ve been doing hot yoga with Brian Baldinger. I met this guy in the vault at NFL films monster Monday on the Sporting News Radio Network, and when I met him, I said, co sell. Interesting. Last Name Greg cosell was the executive producer many, many moons ago, and he were a behind the scenes guy that were you doing sports radio in Philly by then? Or no, were we one of the first, I think I
Greg Cosell 00:54
started God Nestor. I mean, shoot, this is my 45th season with NFL film. So, you know, I’m trying to remember when I started doing right? I know that McNabb was the the Eagles quarterback when I was doing sports talk radio. May, I may have even started before then, but I can’t remember that was a long
Nestor Aparicio 01:15
time to do Hall of Fame careers that began in the same place. Greg cosell is here. He, of course, is NFL films, NFL matchup. And, you know, I still every year when Steve, we lost, Steve, pictures show up and it’s, I don’t know, it’s been a long time in the game. I guess it’s changed a lot. In the cases of watching the way offenses work, you were always the mad scientist. You were always one of my favorite guest, 25 years ago, when you weren’t all over my internet page, breaking down games which baldy has his own breakdowns at this point, Lamar and all of it. It’s been a couple years since I’ve I’ve chatted with you and where this offense is, and I have DVOA, and I have, you know, the mad scientist on and shots in these people. Where are you on, where this offense has been and where you thought it could be five or six years ago. Even though they’re not playing this week, it has been a magical thing to watch this maturation of all this and how the game has changed. Well,
Greg Cosell 02:11
I think Lamar is a great, great player. I don’t think there’s any question about that. Obviously, there’s so many things he does for an offense that make it really, really difficult to defend. You know, obviously adding Derek Henry was a big deal because Derek Henry is a terrific back. He’ll be a first ballot Hall of Famer, but Lamar has really become a terrific football player. And, you know, I know that this week, you know, we all look at social media, because it’s sort of part of our business. But, you know, I just kind of get aggravated with a lot of the stuff I hear because it’s not grounded in reality. And I know that fans in Baltimore are probably upset and they’re looking to place blame. I don’t get into those narratives, as you know Nestor that that doesn’t really concern me, but when you look at this offense, it’s, it’s really, really good, and Lamar, you know, it’s a combination of Lamar and Derek Henry. I mean, I did hear Todd monk and say a few weeks ago that that Derek Henry is kind of the foundation, and he certainly is in some ways. But I think when you have a quarterback like Lamar Jackson, defenses do have to align and play a different way than if you have a different kind of quarterback. So, you know? And the thing is, when you talk about quarterbacks, Nestor, and you know this, you’ve been doing this a long time, quarterbacks have defined strengths, and then they have some things they may not do as well. That’s not necessarily knocking the quarterback. There’s very few transcendent quarterbacks that are just unbelievable at everything. Believe me, I talk to coaches, I hear what they say, what they tell me, how they go and game plan against players. But there’s, there’s no problem with Lamar Jackson. He is truly a unique and special player. Greg
Nestor Aparicio 04:00
cosell is our guest. So Greg, I’ve been beating my own chest, as you know, I like to couple years ago at the trading deadline. And I mean a couple, I don’t mean let a year and a half ago. I mean two and a half years ago when Dobbins was hurt and they were trying to figure things out, and he was even the contract here with Lamar and Snoop Huntley. And Lamar wasn’t, like, 100% healthy at that point. It always felt to me like, dude, he can’t be the meat in the running game. He can’t be and look, they threw me out of press conferences when I asked he’s running the ball 21 times, and you have to play in four days. That’s probably not good for business. And it kind of wrecked their season that year. He didn’t he didn’t play well. They played against Miami. He didn’t really play again. And I thought they need something else, and that’s something else. Might have been a Josh Jacobs, whose agent he is here in Baltimore, and listens to me, and we had conversations about, hey, get him onto that team, you know, from where he was in Vegas, and they and I, I tweeted and wrote at every. Rating deadline for two years. If they could just get Derrick Henry and Luke would say they invested in Zeitler. They invest in the offensive line. They just drafted their their nobody pays running backs. Nobody pay in I know you’ve defended that position and I wrote and I like putting it up. If they got Derek Henry, they would be unstoppable. That’s the word I decided to use that day back in October, November, a year and a half ago. I guess it got stopped with a drop pass in Buffalo on a snowy night, and Lamar trying to do some things with the ball he couldn’t do. And the ball gets slick this time of year. But I’ve said a couple of times, and if art modell came back, or Steve came back, Steve sable came back and said, Hey, Nestor, I hear the ravens are good, and they got this offense. Tell me about it. I’d say, while the quarterback threw 41 touchdowns and had four interceptions, he threw for 4100 yards and he ran for 900 yards. But, but look, let me type it. The running back, his only comparable in the history of the game is Jim Brown. Take that, Greg. Am I wrong?
Greg Cosell 06:02
You mean Henry being the only cop is Jim Brown, who’s
Nestor Aparicio 06:05
his other comparable in the history of his
Greg Cosell 06:08
size. I mean, obviously you’re not, he plays the way. You’re not going to compare Derek Henry to Barry Sanders or Walter Payton. They’re not
Nestor Aparicio 06:15
even Earl Campbell or not even Eric Dickerson. I mean, the way he maybe Jamal Lewis, but he’s bigger than that. I I just I saw it at Alabama, and I said, Who is this comparable Derrick Henry at this well, you know,
Greg Cosell 06:25
it’s funny, because Henry, to me, has always been an interesting guy, because he’s incredibly explosive for a man that size. I’ve actually been around Derrick Henry. You probably have as well. He has a waist we probably all love to have for a guy that’s 250 pounds, his waist looks like it’s about 31 inches. But, you know, he’s just a uniquely built player. And therefore the way in which he runs is kind of interesting, because even though he runs strong Nestor, I never felt, even going back to his Alabama days, I never watched him and went, Wow, he’s just running over people. He doesn’t really do that. What what he does really well, is he, besides the fact that he can go 80 yards any time, is it just seems like when it’s blocked for three, he always gets eight. And you look up and you go, how did he just get eight? Because it doesn’t look like he got eight look, you know, but that’s what he does. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 07:15
Justice Hill’s getting eight now, because he’s out there and we’re like, oh, I mean, he’ll had six touches in 60 yards. I
Greg Cosell 07:22
know, I know. I mean, they obviously, they obviously have have invested in the O line. They did that with linderbaum. They did it with Rosengarten, who’s turned out to be a nice player at right tackle. I think he was a second round pick, if memory serves me correctly, a player who actually exceeded what I thought he was based on tape study coming out of Washington. But again, they were a run first football team because I thought he had some issues in pass Pro, which, again, if he was on a different team, maybe he wouldn’t have been valued that way if, you know, by a team that throws the ball more. But he’s, you know, he’s an aggressive, physical guy, and he works really well, same with a guy like fail alight. I mean, you know, he’s another guy that might not have been valued the same way by a team that has a more of a true drop back pass game, but he’s turned out to be a really good player for them. So, you know, you have to understand who you are and what you are. And there’s no question that the Ravens organization, with Ozzy and Eric de Costa, you know, taking a spot, you know, they understand that exceptionally well as to who they are, what they are, and the kinds of players they need. But, yeah, but Henry is a fascinating back because, you know, you don’t look at his runs and go, Wow, in the sense that you wouldn’t Wow watching, you know, Barry Sanders or or Walter Payton. And I know I’m going back in history. I hope people listening actually know who those players are. But, you know, but he’s just, you know, he’s 250 pounds Nestor. I mean, that’s pretty that’s pretty amazing. You kind of lose sight of that when you watch him. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 08:49
if one guy has to tackle him in the open field, even guys that are running for, yeah, even guys that are a little bigger than maybe they used to be, and the position has changed since 1958 one guy’s got to tackle him, that Jim, that, that, that the push, the head slap, the push, like he’s got that ability in a way that Justin for set didn’t, and Ray Rice, like those kinds of players that have been valued in the modern game, you’d look at him and say, he’s just too big. He’s too big. And,
Greg Cosell 09:16
you know, don’t forget, I mean, and this is a big factor, I see it here in Philadelphia, you know, at NFL films outside of Philadelphia with the Eagles and Jalen Hurts is the the quarterback as a factor in the run game, because they’re in the gun a lot. And then you have the zone read element every time the quarterback is in the gun and the back is offset. Okay, not as much in the pistol, but when the back is offset. And so therefore there’s, there’s one or two defenders that always have to be aware of the quarterback, and it’s Lamar. And you know, Lamar is so fast that even if you have a guy who’s a pretty good athlete, maybe it’s a linebacker, maybe you’re going to scrape and have the linebacker be responsible for Lamar. He’s still faster than that linebacker. 90. 9% of the time. So what happens is, is you’re losing a defender, a run support player, a key run player for the defense, and that helps the run game. I mean, this takes nothing away from a Derrick Henry or a saquon Barkley, who obviously had the ridiculous season. Kind of lost in saquon season is the fact that Henry had over 1900 yards. I mean, that’s a ridiculous amount of yards, so but the quarterback does help, you know, and I, like I said, I know people because they lost, and it was a very fluky game in a number of ways. But there’s nothing wrong with Lamar, and there’s nothing wrong with this offense.
Nestor Aparicio 10:34
Greg cursell is here. Please follow him out on the internet if you want to be smarter about the game of football. He makes me smarter. He’s made me smarter for a quarter of a century, since we met back in my sporting news and nasty nationwide days, and I always see it through. I love having you on. I’d love to have you on more often. I don’t think so much football. We got a baseball team here. Now it’s baseball like, so we’ll be talking about that. But from the pretty
Greg Cosell 10:54
good baseball team too, right?
Nestor Aparicio 10:56
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. I need a little more pitch. Well, I was getting out of there. Guys just signed somewhere else on there to sign the Toronto Yeah, I think of what I see in Arizona, everybody sign it somewhere else. Yeah, listen, I haven’t had you on a lot during the Lamar era, and I could probably go back and find a couple of Super Bowl visits. I think you came home and we all had masks on for five minutes as well. But it’s probably been a year or two since I’ve had you on. And the Lamar thing to me, and I love talking to people like you about it, because you’re there the minute he’s drafted at 1130 at night, and you’re like ravens went in on that, and they had Flacco. And what does that mean, organizationally? What the thing I didn’t understand so much about him was the zigzag and the revolution of what they were going to do. But a couple things, rules, changes, allowing quarterbacks to stay upright in the way that they’re not getting killed the way they were when, you know, Jim McMahon was doing it, and Brett Favre was running around, and you could take pop shots these guys, that helps everything to have them upright for the most part, still dangerous, right? I didn’t running into linebackers was always primary to me to like, that’s not a good idea running the ball 1520 times a game, running into the Steelers 10 times in the first quarter two weeks ago. Still, I don’t, I don’t think that’s a great the concept of them being there is a great idea. But I think what it’s done from a personnel standpoint, from the minute I saw Willie Snead running around and cracked down blocking when they were running the magnetic offense of 2008 teams, like the magnetic old game, where they just all move forward, like the Old Navy, to where it is now, where it’s this West Coast thing with the speedy quarterback and it’s crazy running back that can run away and skill position players when they have zay flowers. But more than that, the kind of personnel you talked about were like, Finally, maybe not the greatest fit, maybe the way Ronnie Stanley, they drafted him to be flat goes guy. Maybe it got a little different. Certain guys can survive this. And then what you can do with a pat Ricard that really nobody in the history of the game is drawing this up in the in the professional game, because this was never anything anybody thought they can it’s
Greg Cosell 12:59
so interesting Nestor, and in some ways it really speaks to how good Lamar is. Because other than the chargers, you know, and that’s Greg Roman, so obviously it’s, it’s the same thing, other than the chargers, who basically have taken a converted defensive end and made him a fullback, there’s no other team in the league that essentially plays when records on the field, and he plays a lot of snaps, this team played the lowest percentage of three wide receiver personnel of any team in the league, by a wide, wide margin. So records on the field for meaningful snaps. Okay, obviously, they play a ton out of two tight ends, because both tight ends can can detach from the formation. But when you play with Ricard, you’re essentially playing with four eligible receivers. You know. Think about that. Every you know, most offensive coaches in this league think, Hey, man, I want to get all five receivers out. I want to really stress the coverage. You know, when records on the field, you’re essentially playing with four eligible receivers, because he’s not a receiver. You know, every once in a while he catches a ball, and when I’m watching tape, I’m going, Oh, wow, Ricard actually caught a ball. But that happens once every six weeks, you know. So it’s pretty impressive what first Greg Roman did and now Todd monkin is doing over these last two years, you know. And obviously Lamar is comfortable with that offense, because, you know, my sense is Monken probably, when he came in, wasn’t thinking that Ricardo was going to be part of all this, but my sense is Lamar is probably very comfortable with that, and you have to play to the comfort level of your quarterback. So it’s really pretty fascinating how well they can play, you know? I mean, this is a team. There’s so many elements that go into this Nestor. I mean, this is a team that plays a ton with two tight ends. So now you get the defense having to decide how do they want to play? Do they want to put their base defense out there, in which case you can split out, likely, in Andrews and make it difficult for them in pass defense? Do they want to put their nickel out there? Because they think that those guys are really good receivers, and you want to make sure you have your past defense out there, and then you got Derek Henry? So I mean, it’s just there’s so many elements. To what their offense is and can be. Well, feels
Nestor Aparicio 15:02
like they’re playing this week, but they’re not. Greg Coachella is here. The ravens are still eliminating that. We’re talking about them in the active sense. And Luke and I will talk about the off season, but as I look at it, you know, I can’t imagine them getting off the bus without Derek Henry next year, or how they will replace that element in their offense. What’s his contract situation? Well, I think he’ll be back next year, but then there’s like they thought they had a lot of tread on the tire last year. Ran for 2000 yards this year. He’s a finely tuned condition. He
Greg Cosell 15:31
didn’t look any slower to me this year. And we know that the guy’s training regimen is, I mean, I’ve never seen it in person, but everything you hear is ridiculous, you know. But he didn’t look any slower. He didn’t look any different. Let’s put it, did he look different to you? Well, no. And
Nestor Aparicio 15:45
there’s one look. I bought a Houston Oilers Derek Henry jersey that I’ve been wearing around here. I was gonna wear it for you. Give you a little throwback, right, right? Um, no. I mean, I It’s not that I was as bullish on him. I And look, they’re not winning the Super Bowl this year. We know that. But as it’s constructed. People like you that watch this think it’s a thing of genius over the last decade to see what they’re doing in the stressors they create, even in the agony of defeat this week. I mean, yeah, you know,
Greg Cosell 16:12
again, teams win and lose for a lot of reasons, and we know that the goal is the Super Bowl. And, you know, there’s, there’s a lot of talk about who’s to blame for their loss. I mean, a lot of flukey things happen in games. There’s, there’s so many things, but you know, at the end of the day, what is the point of that conversation, particularly when it comes to Lamar Jackson, because, you know, I’m listening to people yesterday as I’m watching tape, just because, you know, just like you, I try to stay up on people in the business who I respect, talking about all this stuff, you know, because these are people I know and, and I think to myself, what, what? What is the point you’re trying? Are you trying to say, then, that they should get rid of Derek, Henry, you know? Because now you’re getting into, well, I don’t know if you can win a big game. Okay, so, so what’s, what’s the finishing
Nestor Aparicio 16:53
Yeah, I stopped taking phone calls 15 years ago for that fair. I can’t go down that lane. Yeah,
Greg Cosell 16:57
what are you saying? Okay, go to the quarterback store and get another quarterback. I mean, trying
Nestor Aparicio 17:02
to think about what they’re really thinking about the building, which is, we were good enough to win. We were historically good. We didn’t win. Now, what to do? I talk to you and say, what’s broken? You know, mistakes were
Greg Cosell 17:13
okay so and, you know, it’s a business of winning and losing. We all get that. But I don’t think anything’s broken. I mean, you know, did he throw a really bad pick? He did. And people say, Well, he never did that during the regular season. Okay, you know the fumbles of flukey play? I mean, he’s made plays like that in every single game this year where he’s done something special. And we go, Oh, my God, that’s only Lamar Jackson can do that. You know, obviously what Mark Andrews did. I mean, Mark Andrews is a great player. We could be talking about 456, years down the road, Mark Andrews as a potential Hall of Fame player. So what do you I mean, what are we going to say about all this that has any real substance to it? You know? It was, it was an odd, fluky game, um, you know? And this crazy thing about the the fumble by Andrews is that Bernard, who caused the fumble, actually totally blew his assignment and pass coverage, which allowed Andrews to catch the ball and then it, you know, it just became, you know, a crazy play. And how many times is he going to drop it? You know, that 2.3 I mean, you can go on and on to me, what’s the point? You know, so are we saying that the Ravens aren’t any good, that they have to, like, you know, restructure the whole team? Of course not. This is a really, really good offense with a great quarterback and a lot of really good pieces around it.
Nestor Aparicio 18:27
Greg, go sell last thing for you, this 14 still playing just a minute on a little bit of this with Jayden Daniels and what’s going on there, and Dan Quinn’s ability to kind of turn that thing around and get a young player to play at that level. We’ve rarely seen that in the league. And then you know what mahomes is trying to do, and Josh Allen’s trying to do, and you’re sitting in Philly right now, so you’re part of the mayhem. It’s
Greg Cosell 18:48
really interesting with these teams. And just a quick point about each is, you know, the Eagles have become a team built on the run game and defense. And, you know, look, Every team wants explosive plays. That’s what you hear coaches talk about explosion plays. Well, the Eagles get them in the run game. You know, everybody says, Oh, well, how can they win without, you know, a pass game? Well, they get explosive plays. And this is what their identity is, even the bills. I mean, the bills came out against your ravens this week. And, you know, the number one run defense in the league. And in the first half of the game, the bills had 20 called runs and only eight called passes. Who would have thought that going into the game? So the run game, you know, even, you know, you look at the commanders, they’re probably a little more, you know, Jaden Daniels based, but even the bills, excuse me, the chiefs, they’re pass based because of how much they throw it relative to how much they run it, but boy, they’ve not really had many explosive plays in the past game. Their defense has been so good. I mean, because mahomes has a track record that makes him on the way to being a true all timer. We all, we all talk about mahomes, but that defense under Steve spagnolo, that’s one of the best, absolute best, in the league. And there may be maybe no. Coordinator better than Spags with situational football. Understand, I mean, they blitzed 10 times in the fourth quarter, and then it was a big factor in the game against the Texans.
Nestor Aparicio 20:09
Get the words out of my mouth, I was going to say, situational football, you’re going to beat bags in the fourth quarter of a close game on a blitz. I don’t know. I mean, he draws them up. Greg coachel draws him up. 3013 last thing for you. You wanted to talk about that? Yeah, no, I just mentioned,
Greg Cosell 20:22
I mentioned you before we started that, you know, coming up the 33rd team, which, you know, you can look online, it’s a great group with former coaches, former GMs, former players, a great group. I’m part of it, and I’m going to be the draft guy for it. So, you know, it’s getting to be that time Nestor, where I’m just starting to grind away, you know, watching college guys as well, which takes a lot of time, the
Nestor Aparicio 20:44
33rd team.com the 33rd team.com I see Dan Quinn out in front here. But you know, more than that, we had 33rd Street here in Baltimore at that we played football after all these years. And he goes back to Johnny you and
Greg Cosell 20:59
started, I started in films in 79 Nestor, 1979
Nestor Aparicio 21:03
so well, listen, you know, I’ve been collecting these things. I’m going to jump on a set here for a minute and show you these old things. I collect old rock and roll belt buckles. But I’ve been collecting old NFL because I’m old school like that. So I have the old San Diego and even the beaten up old Bengals belt. Bucha here I got from I think we
Greg Cosell 21:22
did. It’s funny. You say that a highlight film when you’re on the Baltimore Colts. That was called Miracle on 33rd street. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 21:28
that’s it. So the 33rd team reminds me of 33rd street. Yeah, Greg, I love you. Take care up in Philly, I get to cheese steak and some I’ll come up for Philly’s game or something like that. I miss you. Take care of yourself. Thanks. Nestor. Appreciate it. Greg cosell, the 33rd team.com glad I got a chance to check that part of it out. You can always find Greg out on the internet if you want to break down football and get away from all the BS and what’s really going on when a whistle blows. That’s what Greg does up in NFL films. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.
