After Kyle Stowers hit three homers at Camden Yards and the Orioles wasted another start by Trevor Rogers, trades are on the tongues of local baseball fans at the All Star break. Luke Jones and Nestor assess state of the franchise, its roster and how the Baltimore Orioles will seek to re-make the 2026 club and its offseason expectations.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ performance at the All-Star break, noting their 12-6 record in the last six series and the potential for wild card contention. They highlighted Trevor Rogers’ impressive six-start stretch and criticized the team’s frequent use of position players as pitchers. The conversation also covered the recent trade of Kyle Stowers to Miami for Trevor Rogers, emphasizing Rogers’ potential as a key starting pitcher. They debated the Orioles’ trade deadline strategy, suggesting they should sell pending free agents like Brian O’Hearn to clear playing time for prospects like Kobe Mayo. The discussion also touched on the Orioles’ draft strategy and player development challenges.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, trade deadline, Trevor Rogers, Kyle Stowers, Brian Baker, Kobe Mayo, player development, pitching, hitting, wild card contention, bullpen, draft picks, Mike Elias, Adley Rutschman, Gunnar Henderson.
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T, am 1570 task of Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. You know, when I began this video project about 10 years ago, I thought I’d have vanity. I thought I’d have makeup every night like Garceau did back in the 90s at channel two. But, you know, I decided not to shave because I feel like it’s all star break week. This guy’s been out on vacation all week. I’m going to have to shave because I’m up to clean up because I’m going out to Eldersburg to 1623, brewing on Wednesday. I’m really looking forward to the show on Wednesday as well as Friday morning. We’re going to be at Zeke’s coffee in laraville. Luke is back from vacation. He has a tan. I look 20 years older because I haven’t shaved in a month. I don’t got month. I don’t think I’ve shaved since Wang Chung. And it’s been a it’s been some winning, been some losing, been some Marlins, been some Mets. But I’ll tell you one thing for sure, dude, and the thing with the last place team and watching a horrible the broadcast have devolved into pandering and all of that. We’re on the trade deadline. I’ll just say this about the team, about once a week, maybe twice a week, they get really embarrassed. You know what I mean? Like, this has been an embarrassing year, just at the All Star break in last place and where they are, and you can feel good or bad about it, but they, they sure do use a lot of position players to pitch. They almost get no hit a lot. They run the bases like a little league team. Yeah, I don’t know. You didn’t miss much being gone the last 10 days, even though they pick up a game or two, maybe they, they want a couple of games in the middle of the week.
Luke Jones 01:37
Well, I mean, let’s not downplay it. Play it. They won six of seven at one point. And you go into Saturday of the Marlins series, and I think I even wrote this, what three weeks ago, I guess it was when I looked at the final six series before the all star break, and I was trying to figure out a somewhat realistic, even if I wasn’t necessarily believing that was going to happen, but a realistic path to say, Okay, this is kind of what needs to happen if they’re still kind of sort of in wild card content, or let me rephrase that, if they’re kind of sort of hanging on the fringe of wild card contention, and then they come out of the second half, and they have a good 10 days, and then you say, All right, what does the trade deadline look like? Then they’re not, certainly not going all in as buyers. There was never a scenario like that. But you could at least argue against selling off everything that isn’t nailed to the floor, as far as you
Nestor Aparicio 02:31
know, talking about the course would be the word, right? And I looked at that and
Luke Jones 02:34
it was 12 and six, right? It was winning two out of three of your last six, you know, two out of three in each of your last six series. And if they had swept the Marlins, then they would have finished 12 and six over that stretch. Unfortunately, Saturday, they waste a great start from Trevor Rogers, who, especially in the aftermath of Kyle Stowers DOING what He did on Sunday, you’re at least happy with where Trevor Rogers is. I mean, I know it’s only been six starts. He’s been their best starting pitcher. I mean, he’s been that good, and that’s been a positive development. Brown wanted to send them to the All
Nestor Aparicio 03:09
Star game in the middle of the broadcast. Let’s pop the break. I mean, Jesus. I mean, at that point, you might as well just be doing Saturday. You might as well be Gordon solely. I mean, at that point. I mean,
Luke Jones 03:20
I think it had, but I think that had to do with the app, that had more to do with the context of the rookie pitcher for the Brewers that’s going to the All Star game after what five starts, which is, you know, that that’s where the genesis of that really was. But anyway, you look at this team, and I kind of go back to what I’ve been saying for several weeks now. Are they playing better than they did when they had a seven and 23 stretch, which in the in the tail end of that is when Brandon Hyde was fired, and Mancino takes takes the job as interim manager. They’ve been better than that since then. They absolutely have been. But the problem is, when you start like that, when you have a record where you’re 18 games under 500 going into Memorial Day weekend. What do you think you’re going to be the rest of the year? Right? I mean, just because you’re 18 games under through the first seven or eight weeks of the season, even if you like a team’s potential or like their talent, or you’re talking it up to injuries or whatever, it doesn’t mean that the pendulum swings in the opposite direction, and you’re going to go 18 over in the next seven weeks. Well, you go 10 over and you still don’t feel good about yourself, and that’s the thing. So, so you look at this team, the very simple breakdown is this. They started nine and 11. They had the absolute debacle on Easter Sunday, which started their stretch of going seven and 23 which is Colorado Rockies like, which is 2018 through 21 Orioles like. And they buried themselves at that point, at eight, at 16 and 34 and since then, they’ve gone What, 27 and 18. Now I will point out because this was. Thing, something that was a pet peeve of mine at that we were hearing the last three four weeks. Remember, they had that stretch where they won nine of 11, that included their six game winning streak. Problem is after they won nine of 11, and at that point they were 11 games under 500 going into that Sacramento, the A
Nestor Aparicio 05:17
series they beat up on the car. It was June
Luke Jones 05:20
5, or whatever it was. They’ve gone 18 and 16 since then, that nine and two stretch needed to be their springboard to just take off and be great. That’s what they needed to do if they were really going to get back into this thing. And instead, it hasn’t been horrible, but it’s been middling. It’s been 500 ish. And I think where I where I am with this team right now, as far as what I think they are from a true talent level standpoint, from a true performance level standpoint right now, beyond just looking at what the record is in their nine games under 500 mathematically, they’re buried. I think they’re right now, more of a 500 ish kind of a team in terms of how they’ve performed. And the problem is you can’t erase that seven and 23 stretch. You can erase being 18 games under 500 on May 24 and it just goes back to what we said at that point in time. They buried themselves, and they haven’t been able to get off the mat to the degree that they’ve needed to to do anything but sell at the trade deadline. And I think these last two games to bring it back to the here and now. What happened on Saturday, where I listened to the game my entire way home from the beach, and you know, they had a chance to win. Trevor Rogers pitch great. And then, you know, the bullpen falters late, but they didn’t score any runs. I mean, they’re shut out. And then on Sunday, I mean, they just, you know, nothing went well.
Nestor Aparicio 06:43
They’ve been shut out. How many times you scored less than three runs? It’s insane. Too much,
Luke Jones 06:47
too much. I mean, that’s and that’s what you heard me complaining about through the first seven weeks of the season, where I was just like, hey, look, I expected the starting rotation to struggle, especially if you’re going to tell me effluent was on the i l in addition to Grayson Rodriguez. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 07:01
Rogers has been saved their their lunch this month. Rogers
Luke Jones 07:04
has been great. Charlie Morton’s been excellent for the last five or six weeks, right? I mean, again, I’m not giving him a pass on what happened the first six weeks of his season, but he’s been really good since then. And Dean Kramer’s been way more good than bad since the first month of the season. Problem is, you know, Sagano has gone the wrong way Eflin, who began a rehab assignment Sunday, but we know how that’s gone for him. And you know, you you’ve had Brandon young making starts because kpovich has been on the IL so, you know, of late, they’ve had three starting pitchers that have given them, absolutely given them a good chance to win. But going back to your point, you still see these, I don’t know if you want to call them lapses or whatever. They go through times where they’ll play well, like they did this past week, where they won six of seven. And then you see what happens on Saturday and Sunday. You know, some defensive miscues, some base running miscues. They didn’t swing the bats Well, they didn’t pitch well, going back to though, at the seventh inning on Saturday and certainly all day Sunday, that to me sounds like a 500 team, right? I mean, team that’s going to play well at times, and it’s going to be not so good at times, right? And it adds up to their
Nestor Aparicio 08:16
pitching is not good enough to be an above 500 and their hitting hasn’t been consistent enough either. Just going to say
Luke Jones 08:21
none of it’s really been consistent. Enough to be any more than what it’s been since the third week of May, which is a couple games over 500 since then, it’s been better. But has it been anything that has meaningfully changed their trajectory? I mean, unless, unless we’re speaking through the looking through the lens of trying to avoid 100 losses. You know, they were on that kind of a pace for a long time. Okay, great, whoop dee doo. You’re not throwing a parade over that, and you’re certainly not in any kind of a position other than what they need to do. And they started doing that when they dealt Brian, Brian Baker late last week, sell. They they need to sell. This isn’t a fire sale. It looking at it like 2018 or anything like that, but pending free agents need to be traded. I mean, a big thing that is a pet peeve of mine right now, when I look at this ball club, is how little Kobe Mayo is playing. I mean, what are we doing? And I heard Tony, Tony Mancell knows answer on Sunday, where you know he’s talking about they’re in win now mode. I mean, you would think that their lineups, the 27 Yankees, the way that he framed, that there’s no no excuse not to get Kobe Mayo more playing time. And if that means, well, Brian O’Hearn is going to be dealt to a contender, and that’s going to help open up playing time for Kobe mayo, because you need to find out about him over the next two and a half months, then so be it. And the same is going to be said about Samuel bisayo,
Nestor Aparicio 09:41
well, this sell off could be something this week, right? I mean, like, in a general sense, fans get their feelings hurt. We go back to BJ sur off 25 years ago or whatever. But like, they’re in a really weird spot, like, anything that’s not glued down, that’s not under 20. I mean, they don’t Baker and people are on me on my Facebook, like, I care about. Brian Baker, I care about relief innings next year, and if you think he is not good enough, then deal him. If you think you could do better than that in your bullpen, well, I’ve seen Soto, I’ve seen Dominguez, I’ve seen Kittredge, I Kimbrel. I know what they cost. I know what 48 innings of relief pitching looks like in the off season, when you’re thinking, oh, we need a middle relief pitcher. We’ll just get a guy from quad A No, we won’t, um, Baker sort of graduated a little bit in that case, and to deal him off for a future what it told me is Michaelia thinks he’s keeping his job. It tells me that Michaelia is going to be running this team next March, when you’re let in in Sarasota, and I’m locked out in Sarasota by these clowns, and last place clowns, by the way, I can throw that back in again. It’s not that I wouldn’t have dealt him. It just tell it’s she leaving me to say, unlike the Washington Nationals who poop can their GM three days before they drafted, which was I that was a little weird, but the Lerner family is every bit as weird as the Rubenstein family, and they’ve been at it longer, and they’ve got a pelt, and they’ve made a lot of money, and they’ve been screwed at a lot of money by by Angelo’s. But the notion that Elias is going to pick all the players on Sunday, deal off everybody in two weeks, and that, I mean, look, I don’t know what Rubenstein’s management’s techniques are or whatever, but it certainly feels like Elias feels emboldened that he will be the architect. He’s going to survive this two, three years from now, he’s going to pick the next manager. And that, if you’re dealing off for 30 set number 37 draft picks, early second round draft picks, and you’re dealing off bullpen pieces with controllable years, it says to me that you think you’re in the cockpit for a while. You’re buying, uh, green bananas, as they say.
Luke Jones 12:00
Well, I mean, first of all, I mean, we can’t make Brian Baker out to be more than what he was, right? This isn’t someone that’s been a stalwart for four years in their bullpen. This is a guy that we wondered if he was going to make the club out of spring training, right? So he’s had a he had an excellent first three months of the season. He absolutely was as important as important can be through looking through the lens of it being a last place team. But we also know the volatility, volatility of relievers, Nestor and some of the names that you threw out there. Yeah, bullpen pieces can be expensive, but you can also go sign bullpen pieces and they don’t do the job for you. So there’s so much volatility as it pertains to a bullpen. So I have no problem with that deal whatsoever. When you when you are talking about the 37th overall pick, they drafted Slater to Braun with it, a high school outfielder who’s intrigued. I mean, intrigued. We’ll get into the draft as much as we’re going to talk about it at some point. I watched
Nestor Aparicio 12:55
it on Sunday night. I mean, I sat, and I don’t know that I’ve sat and watched the baseball draft in my
Luke Jones 12:59
life. It’s such an I watched it too. It’s such an odd event. From looking through the lens of people just don’t watch college baseball like, like they do college football, or even knows who these guys are, right? I mean, you could sit there and and if you didn’t know anything, if you just dropped in, you could be punked like, it could be a Saturday Night Live skit where people just make up names and pick players, and you would get an AI player. Yeah, exactly, exactly. But that said the Oriole select pitcher, Sydney Finch Don’t get crazy. They’re not going to take a picture too early, although they did with Maine. They did take a couple pictures, 58 and 69 overall. So, but the point that I was trying to make with Baker, I think that’s absolutely the case of a selling high situation. I wish nothing but the best for Brian Baker. I know he got to what, I guess they were in Boston. He got to Boston and actually gave a shell for the raise. But, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 13:59
the race, think he’s going to help them win a World Series this year
Luke Jones 14:02
or or just be part of their bullpen for the next couple years. But do you
Nestor Aparicio 14:06
help them win a World Series Part of their bullpen? That’s what I mean. Like they feel like he’s got 35 innings in him the second half of the year, and they’re going to get their innings out of him, and they’re going to get decent and that’s the way they felt. They felt so strongly that they gave up. I mean, the rays giving up future stuff is crazy in Division. I mean, it says to me that they valued Baker more than the Orioles did. But I’m with you. It’s so high. All it said to me was michaelias thinks he’s keeping his job. Mike Elias thinks he’s going to be around here when Sydney, whatever his name, if they drafted. Um, is it triple A? And he’s a decision which is three years from now, right? I
Luke Jones 14:41
just, I just, I mean, three years from now, I don’t know about that, right? But I think, I mean, look, if you’re Mike Elias and this, go this the same thing we said the same thing about Brandon Hyde, you know, we’re going to say the same thing about anyone else that’s that’s in the organization right now. I mean, until. The moves made. You’re the guy right until you’re you’re the guy until you’re not anymore. We said that a lot about Brandon Hyde. I mean, you know, remember Mike Elias was giving him votes of confidence even what up to about a week before the the AX fell. So, you know, I’m not shocked looking at it through that lens. And the reality is, even if you’re going to be fired, you want to do a good job, that you get your next job, right? I mean, you don’t want to do stuff that other teams are going to look at and say, What the heck are you doing? So I think the baker trade to me, you know, if that’s and it’s always unique, because it’s only the competitive balance picks that a team’s allowed to trade anyway, but the number 37 overall pick is not something to sneeze at. I mean, that’s something that you hope is a player, right? I mean, that’s not just a lottery ticket.
Nestor Aparicio 15:46
Gunner Henderson in your mind, sure. Or, or
Luke Jones 15:50
Jordan westburg, right? Or, or, or the next
Nestor Aparicio 15:53
Kobe. Think you got a shot to have a major league player? Sure, no question about it. So I think, and, but Brian Baker is a major league player, by the way. So, you know, part of that for me is, if you’re going to sit and say, we’re trying to win, we’re benching mayo, we’re trying to win, we’re trying to win, then you deal off, you know, one of the two or three relief pitchers you actually have that you might need over the next 90 days. It tells me you’re a seller, and they should be a seller. I’m not against even getting rid of Brian Baker. It was just, I’m trying to interpret what it means, that’s, I gotcha. And I think we’re going to be interpreting a lot of what it means over the next 16 days, because they’re going to deal all five of these
Luke Jones 16:30
guys. Yeah. And I think what we also, what it probably also should teach us, is this trade deadline is not going to quote, fix the Orioles for 2026 right? We’ve talked about that a lot. They’re not going to get Ryan O’Hearn is not a trade chip that’s going to get you something that’s necessarily going to be amazing for 2026 it might be something that can help you for 2026 and maybe it’s another piece that really helps you a couple years from now, right? That’s the kind of deal you’re going to be looking to be looking at. You’re not going to be looking at, you know, you’re not going to replenish your farm system with guys that are top 50 guys across the league in terms of prospects, because Ryan O’Hearn and Cedric Mullins and, you know, whoever you want to throw out there. If you can trade Sagano, if you can trade effland, Sir Anthony Domingue, I think Dominguez, with his stuff profiles, that you can get something I it’s not going to these aren’t going to be elite prospects that are going to be coming back. So I think the baker trade, yes, I agree with you. It does speak to where Mike Elias is operating, certainly, at least in a responsible way that he’s not trying to be a buyer on some kind of pipe dream that this team is going to sneak in as the third wild card. I think that’s evident. But, yeah, I think it, you know, you kind of look at it and say, you know, until he’s told otherwise, whether ownership is definitively said it or not, and whether you know if ownership definitively says it or not. What does that even matter? Right? I mean, we talk about how votes of confidence or the kiss of death in sports when we’re talking about GMs and and head coaches and managers, but you know, to me, that that was a appropriate, perfectly fine move to make, and if Slater de Braun ends up being a stud, then we’re going to look at this and say, Wow. You know that that was smart to do for dealing. Let’s call Brian Baker what he is, a middle reliever, a good middle reliever this year, but a middle reliever nonetheless. So I think you that was a sell high kind of scenario. And yeah, I would, I would be in agreement.
Nestor Aparicio 18:40
It’s a lot of value for a middle reliever, and if you feel like you’re throwing in the towel on the season this season, I’m all for it, and it’s a deal you couldn’t make on Monday morning because the draft pick happened on Sunday night. So I mean exactly, I get that, and I’m okay with that, but it does say to me, Michael, I feel safe, and I’ll keep going back to that, that anybody that’s calling for his head, or thinks Rubenstein’s gonna fire him on October 3. I you know, it’s not being built that way. Let’s put it that way. Yeah,
Luke Jones 19:09
and again, I don’t think this trade suggests that he’s safe for the next three years or anything like that. But yeah,
Nestor Aparicio 19:15
he also loves draft picks, and this is fun for
Luke Jones 19:19
him, and it’s the part of the job that look we can talk about the pitching element and not drafting pitchers. As I said to you in one of our last conversations a couple weeks ago, before I was off of my respite, they have trended the last couple drafts of drafting more pitching than they had in previous years, and then that trend continued Sunday night when they take pitch, you know, Joseph Jara, I think is the pronunciation, 58th overall, left handed pitcher with, you know, some intriguing tools. And then a right handed pitcher. JT, Quinn, dude,
Nestor Aparicio 19:51
six foot eight, the kid from Michigan State, six foot
Luke Jones 19:55
eight. And again, look, I’m not going to sit here and say that. I think that guy’s going to be the next Eric’s. School, you know, scuba was, I think, an eighth round pick, right? The whole point with the pitching was, for me, it’s never been, oh, you need to take a pitcher in the first round, right? But because I feel like, if you force that, that’s when you draft Rashad paraman, right? That’s when you draft Travis Taylor, right? You know, we think about it like think about the Ravens with wide receivers in the first round over the years, right? If you draft for need and you force it, you’re going to end up making not great picks. So we’re going to see how that plays out. I took two catchers in the first round, so that was the interesting part to me, but, but even so, keep the Keith walls of the draft. You know the draft community. You know the guys that really follow that, they seem to like, really like the Orioles draft. I don’t know, I don’t know these guys from Adam, right? I mean, no doubt, said they’re killing it after they they got their 31st and maybe they will, or two years from now, we’ll be saying, Oh, well, that, that draft stunk. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 20:58
they got five players in the first 69 picks, right? So that and two pitchers, so they wound up taking more players. So on Monday morning, if this were the NFL, they would win the draft. They had three first round draft picks. And, you know, couple twos, you come out, you got a safety, a corner, you whoever you got. You feel like, hey, you know, we got five of them, and everybody else got two or less.
Luke Jones 21:18
And I think the element, and the element that I kind of take away from it again. Just I got home, I was catching up on everything from the week, and, you know, just watching the draft, like everyone else, the comments that were being made by the pundits, right? And I am not a amateur draft pundit by any stretch of the imagination. I’m not pretending to be, but the pundits were making comments that reminded me of the types of things that NFL draft pundits say about the Ravens. Looking at it through the lens of they got good value players that we thought were going to go earlier fell to them. I mean, I think Keith law had Ike Irish as as maybe the second or third overall pick in his last mock draft, and the Orioles get him at 19. I mean, good. That doesn’t mean he’s going to be a Hall of Famer, but that’s good value. As far as what you know, here in mid July, this is where,
Nestor Aparicio 22:08
if Mike Elias were more personable and not an arrogant prick that I apparently he is, you’d have a vibe about his excitement to say we just didn’t think he was going to be there, like, There’s no way. I thought over the last three months that I think Irish was going to fault us at 19. I thought he would go 12 to the Brewers or eight, like, whatever that is, sit and educate us. Sell us on your game. Yeah, sell us on your game. Your stadium is empty, except when you’re giving
Luke Jones 22:37
away stuff. And I would actually say, and I don’t mean this as a shot to you, Michaelia has talked plenty about his draft picks in his farm system over the years. It, it’s but it’s most often come at times where the the on field, Major League product was so bad, you know, going back to 19 and 20 and 21 that people weren’t really paying attention at that point in time. So the time will come where he’s going to, he’s going to talk about these guys. I mean, Matt blood, but was on a zoom with the media late Sunday night talking about these guys. So they’re excited, they’re excited, but no one’s buying tickets because you drafted Ike Austin, right? Or Ike Irish, sorry, you know, we’re going to see, you know, we’ll see how these guys develop over the next few years. But, yeah, all of this, you know, whether we’re talking about the baker trade, how they proceeded in the draft. I mean, you know, this draft, the first four picks that they made that weren’t pitchers, which, you know, the Keith laws of the baseball draft community really liked, but fans said, what? They didn’t take a picture, they didn’t take a picture. And I, I understand that to a point, but at the same time, you can’t force it, right? You never should force it with the draft. We’ve talked about that so much with the Ravens over the years. The reason why the ravens are the Ravens is because they haven’t forced it over the years with the draft by and large, right? You know, we for every Matt Elam, Bucha Perryman, kind of pick that they’ve made, they’ve made 10 other first round picks that were either good, great or Hall of Fame level, right? So they’re really good at what they do, and that’s, you know, and even though it’s a different sport, the same principle applies. You want to stack your board, and you want to stay true to it, and you want to draft the best talent, and it’s a little unusual, yeah, to draft two catchers with your first three picks, but you can’t look at it through the lens of, no, we’re not going to draft any catchers because we have Adley rutschman And Samuel basayo, because you don’t know where you’re going to be two years from now, Adley rutschman may not be in the organization a year and a half from now, they might have they might deal in this winter, whatever, like I’m it’s pure conjecture. Samuel bisayo, we don’t know if he’s going to be a catcher long term. He might be a first baseman. He might be an all star. DH, you know, in the your down your Don Alvarez, David Ortiz mold, you know, long term. So you draft guys that you think have profiles that are going. To translate and you need to develop. I have more issues right now, more concerns with the Orioles from a development standpoint, more so than necessarily a talent identification standpoint. And you know why? A perfect example is Kyle Stowers in Miami right now, right? Why can’t Why couldn’t he do and unlock what he’s done in Miami. Why couldn’t he do that in Baltimore? Now, part of it was there wasn’t an easy path to playing time, but there also was some development pieces there, right? We’re seeing that now with Heston kerstad, who’s back in triple A and has struggled as he’s trying to
Nestor Aparicio 25:34
make a Kobe Mayo who can’t find the batter’s box.
Luke Jones 25:36
Yeah, and, you know, so, so, so for me, I kind of look at it more so that I don’t necessarily have major problems with who Mike Elias has drafted, whom he’s drafted. It’s more so you know what’s kind of happened, what’s what’s broken down over the last year to 18 months from a player development standpoint, that some of these guys either plateau or they get to trip away and the numbers look great, and it just hasn’t translated at the major league level.
Nestor Aparicio 26:03
They also haven’t developed any pitching. Well, that’s the story. The story of this organization right now is the pitching they developed has been hurt or they haven’t developed it, and at that point, that’s that’s why they’re losing. I I don’t think it’s because gunner Henderson is having a little bit of an off year that still feels like an all star year, or that Westberg has been hurt, or the cows has been just okay, or whatever. I think without the pitching, the pitching, the pitching, because the hitting, I think the hitting would have been better if the pitching were better. I mean, I think part of this is just, you know, they get shut out again on Saturday, you mentioned and, and it’s towers, goes and really embarrasses them on Sunday. I mean, really puts an exclamation Good for him. What a performance. And I know you like him a lot, so I really nice kid, really, he’s easy to root for. I mean, I will say this, and I don’t think too many Orioles fans have any ill will towards Kyle Stowers, whatsoever. They wish he was still in Baltimore. He’s a good kid. Always worked hard, never really got a shot and look. And he was one of the guys, right? He was one of the buddies with the guys, right?
Luke Jones 27:01
Yeah. I mean, everyone liked him, you know, I and, and also as a circumstance, right? I mean, when he was, quote, ready, they still had Austin Hayes, Cedric Mullins and Anthony Santander in their outfield, right? I mean, who are you going out of your way and coming off 101
Nestor Aparicio 27:17
win year where they felt like that, right? Exactly,
Luke Jones 27:20
so, so there’s, this is where there’s, there’s more nuance involved, and that’s why I’ve had frustration. But I also acknowledge that if you’re in Mike Elias shoes, over the last couple years, it has been tough to kind of find the sweet spot between, okay, you have this team that took off the second half of 2022 and 101 games in 23 and had this great first half last year. And you know, so trying to find the sweet spot between maintaining that but also sprinkling in, filtering in your your your next prospects, your next wave of guys. You know, it worked out quite nicely with Colton cowser last year. Why? Because Austin Hayes got hurt and Colton Houser had to play, and he took advantage. You were hoping the same thing was going to happen back in April and May, when Colton cowser was on the i l and Heston kerstad had his extended audition. Unfortunately, Heston kerstad did not take advantage of it whatsoever. So, so there’s always more nuance it. There’s a little more of, you know, it’s a little more complicated than we try to make it out to be sometimes. And the saving grace at this point in time is as Kyle Stowers is going to the All Star game, and good for him. I’m happy for him. On the flip side, I am encouraged by what I’m seeing from Trevor Rogers, because I don’t think it’s what we’ve seen over these six starts. It doesn’t feel fluky to me. It’s not like he’s getting by, you know, hard contact, and, you know, his defense is playing great behind him. And he’s, you know, kind of getting by by the skin of his teeth. You know, he’s missing bats. His velocities up. The stuff is better. He’s, you know, he’s giving you six and sometimes seven innings. I mean, he’s it looks good. It looks like something that,
Nestor Aparicio 29:03
oh, it’s a good trade at this point, no matter what Stowers did on Sunday, it feels better. As I said to somebody on the Facebook thread, I’m like, if he’s in their rotation next year and makes 28 starts and pitches under a four era, and that’s
Luke Jones 29:16
John’s a good win, right? That’s what John means was for you a few years ago. I mean, if he can be, what John means was, before the injuries, he’ll
Nestor Aparicio 29:23
gladly take you better figure out five pitchers next year. They can get you 26 to 30 starts, and you better figure out the bullpen, because I’m with you. Dude, rushman, Henderson, westburg, Mayo to go to cows or go down the line. Anybody cursed? Anybody else would get here in the off season? If those guys are going to hit 230 and they’re and they’re going to have zeros on Saturday afternoon after 27 outs, then you know, Trevor Rogers pitching, you know, four hits shut out ball for six innings doesn’t mean anything you’re going to lose. So and Saturday was a little bit of a microcosm issue in that to say, like you got this big effort from this guy, you. Traded for a year ago in front of Kyle Stowers, and he did it against his team, and that Stowers won up it, and you lost both games over
Luke Jones 30:07
the weekend. Yeah, so, and look, I’m not sure there’s a scenario where you’re ever going to say that the Orioles won that trade based on what Kyle Stowers is becoming, assuming he continues this. And also point out there have been plenty of players who have an all star season, and then they’re never heard from them again.
Nestor Aparicio 30:24
By the way, my dad, every time Don Baylor would come up to bat, my dad would just shake his head and say, God, what are we what were you thinking? You know, getting ready, and that was about money, and it was about free agency and type A, type B, all that in the 1970s but every time Don Baylor would come up, my dad would be like, rich too. Oh, my, my dad never was a dissent says, guy because, like, no one was because of Brooks, but, but Don Baylor, man, it was like we could have used him around here at 79 and 80. No doubt, no doubt. And But
Luke Jones 30:54
what you also know and your dad would also acknowledge, would have also acknowledged, too. And my dad would have to, every team has some of those, right? Every team has some players that they traded away, that it ends
Nestor Aparicio 31:04
up every time Scott McGregor and Rick Dempsey, you know, did what they did, the Yankees should have given in the
Luke Jones 31:09
way. I mean, look at, look at Ryan O’Hearn for the Orioles. You know, after the Royals tried to develop him, he was their cast and curse that, right? Literally. I mean, he was never like an elite prospect, but he was a guy that they thought was going to be in every day, like regular for them, and it never worked out, right? I mean, look at, look at the angels, looking at Kyle Bradish, before the before Tommy John. I mean, Kyle Bradish was one of what, four or five pitchers They dealt for, Dylan Bundy, who didn’t do anything meaningful for the angels, right? I mean, so every team is going to have stuff like that. But if Trevor Rogers to your point, and I wholeheartedly agree, if he can be a guy, that can be a legit, I don’t want to say anchor, because that implies that he’s going to be their ace. I don’t think he’s gonna be their ace. But if he can be a legit starting pitcher for them the rest of this year, going into next year, and however, Trevor
Nestor Aparicio 31:59
Rogers starts a playoff game in Baltimore. That means they made the playoffs, and that means he takes the hill. Then this will that would have been a good trade to trade Stowers and Norby, who were, you know, major league players, right? If nothing else, and Stowers looks like he’s going to be in the big leagues. Easier to stay now, even if it slows down, he only hits 247 next year. Right in that organization, he’s going to get his 512 at bats every year, right?
Luke Jones 32:25
Yeah, yeah. So, so, so you can look at it through the lens of if Trevor Rogers, if what we’re seeing now is real, and I think there are plenty of signs to believe not. And let me be clear, not a one and a half era. I’m not saying that he’s going to be that, but if he can be a guy that is a three something era of the rest of this year and next year, and you know, however long after that, if however long he sticks around, then I think you look at that trade much differently through the lens of, okay, give Miami the the nod, because, you know, Kyle Stowers, all star outfielder, But you did get Trevor Rogers, and even though his initial time with the Orioles didn’t work out
Nestor Aparicio 33:05
well, he looks like Dallas Keiko right now for five minutes with the Astros,
Luke Jones 33:09
right? Like, what? What’s crazy. I mean, you look at it, and again, it’s only been six starts, but if you look at some, you know, wins above replacement, things of that nature, it’s been the best starting pitcher, right? I mean, that that’s how good he’s been so you know, again, I get it. It’s no fun seeing Kyle Stowers hit three home runs and have five hits against the Orioles on Sunday, when you’re looking at it through that lens and knowing how little Trevor Rogers had had done, not how little nothing he had done to help the Orioles until last month. But a trade shouldn’t just be judged solely on the first year, just like we’re not going to judge these draft picks solely on where baseball America rates them right now, because that’s not worth anything in the big picture. So you have to see how it plays out. And the good news is, you know, Trevor Rogers looks like someone that can really help them next year, and you’re hoping that you know whether that projects as number two, number three, number four, starter, whatever it feels like he’s going to be in that starting five, and if he is, then not that, if you’re going to do cartwheels over the Kyle Stowers trade. But it’s at least a little more palatable, right? You can at least look at it and say, All right, yeah, they whiffed on Kyle Stowers, and they need to learn from that. And that’s why that’s kind of the genesis of some of my frustration right now, seeing how they’re handling copei Mayo, who actually had a pretty nice, decent month of June, and has barely played in July. So to me, it’s more so All right, learn from what happened with Kyle Stowers, right? You can’t change it, but learn from it. And figure this out. Clear the deck here a little bit with, you know, trading O’Hearn or, you know, trading Mullins. And that puts, you know, cows are in center field, and that puts someone who might be DHing into the outfield, and then you could DH mail, you know what? Ever you got to find out, right? These next two, two and a half months are not going to be about the Orioles trying to sneak in the wild card contention. They’re going to, they’re going to sell off, right? They need to find out about these guys. They need to see Trevor Rogers do this, continue to do this for the next two and a half months. They need to see Kobe mayo. Look, look the part of someone that you say, hey, maybe we’re not just going to hand him 160 starts next year, but we feel good enough to say he’s going to be on a roster and he’s going to have the inside track on being our first starting first baseman, because we’re probably going to non tender or trade Ryan mountcastle At some point between now and spring training next year. But you need to find out you want to get Samuel basayo here by August, you know, third week of August, and let him play for four or five weeks. Catch a couple times a week. Play some first base, D, H, so again, that’s where to me trading Ryan O’Hearn is as much about clearing some runway for some of those things as it is. Whatever you’re going to get for him. And you know, if it all shakes out that Ryan O’Hearn, who’s going to be a free agent, is available in the off season, and you can try to resign him if you want to, right, if you think he’s that important to you. They did it with Mike bordick 25 years ago, that that scenario does exist if, if you think it’s going to be that important. But for me, I’m hoping that Kobe mayo, playing every day looks the part of a guy that you say, All right, this season stunk. This season was a disappointment, but he’s trending up as the year goes, you know, winds down, you know, in the same way we’re talking about Jordan Westberg, who, you know, say what you want about the hand injury and sliding head first in the second base and all that. But since he’s been back from the hamstring, Westbrook has been fantastic at the plate, right? I mean, he’s looked much more like the all star that he was last year, so that’s been good to see. Gunnar Henderson has been way better over the last five or six weeks compared to what he was the first two months of the season. You know, we’re going to see about Adley rutschman, who, you know, hopefully is going to be back not too long after the all star break. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 37:04
let’s break and come back, because that we there’s a lot of players to go through here. Lucas been gone a week. Luke has a tan. He’s in Wildwood. I have a silver beard because I haven’t shaved since Wang Chung, I feel like, or maybe since the heritage fair. Luke could be found at Baltimore. Luke anywhere the internet travels. I can be found this week in two places. Going to be an Eldersburg out at 1623, brewing on Wednesday, Luke, there was a little concert held, I know you were barely live back on July 13, 1985 was the 40th anniversary of Live Aid in Philadelphia. I attended that show. My friends, Richard David Abraham, were two of my best friends in the whole world. 1985 they flew over to London together as brothers and went to Live Aid. They’re going to bring their trinkets. I’m going to bring my trinkets. We’re going to meet at 1623. Brewing also going to be joined out at 1623, brewing by some other rock and roll friend, Sean Allen from Charm City, devils and and stone horses. But more importantly, Child’s Play is going to join me out there for a beer as well. On Friday, we’re waking up early in the morning. Going to be at Zeke’s coffee. Dan Rodricks is going to be joining us. Kevin Collier, who is Cal the former, the fired cartoonist, political cartoonist from the Baltimore Sun, working for the Smith family. So could be interesting morning a coffee down at Zeke’s coffee on Friday. Receive will also be with us, another former Baltimore Sun employee. All I brought to you by our friends at the Baltimore, excuse me, the Maryland lottery. Back to the Future scratch offs. I got to get some new scratch offs, because we’re about this close to getting the Raven scratch offs coming in a couple of weeks and Raven season. I don’t want to bring that up with Luke, because that’s a whole different segment that ravens training camp opens next week. So this week, this week, next week. What do we got? We calling it? You calling it this week or next week, next week, next week, the two medical Yeah, all right. Well, it’s almost this week. It’s a week away. I am Nestor. He is Luke. Stay with us. We get a lot of baseball around here. It’s all star break week. I have found some cool old stuff that I’ve also played, and also some really cool new stuff. We had a great, great visit with Johnny Oh last week, our congressman out of Costas and Timonium also had a great, great visit last week all around with the deep, squally family and sausage and fun and Pete karenji. It’s been a big, big week around here on Nestor. He’s Luke. Stay with us. He’s back. We got last place baseball and all star game to talk about and all that good stuff. We’re Baltimore positive.
