Luke Jones and Nestor buckle up the the holiday chinstraps for Steelers at Ravens for AFC North supremacy and the Christmas follow up as the Chiefs and Texans will factor into all of this before Santa comes down the chimney. We got a big one in Baltimore on Saturday evening!
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the significance of the upcoming Pittsburgh Steelers vs. Baltimore Ravens game, highlighting its AFC North implications and the stakes for both teams. They note the Ravens’ need to win and for Pittsburgh to lose one of its final two games to secure first place. Jones emphasizes the importance of ball security and the improved play of the Ravens’ defense, particularly with Kyle Hamilton’s role in the backfield. They also discuss the potential playoff scenarios, including the importance of avoiding road games in January. The conversation touches on the historical context of the rivalry and the current strengths and weaknesses of both teams.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Pittsburgh week, AFC North, Lamar Jackson, Russell Wilson, Christmas game, tiebreaker profile, Kansas City, Cincinnati, road playoffs, ball security, Kyle Hamilton, defense improvement, playoff implications, George Pickens, Marlon Humphrey
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome all. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 Castle, Baltimore, Baltimore, positive. We are a positively into the most wonderful time of the year. I did some singing with Calvin stadium on Wednesday, we did the Maryland crappie tour. I thought I was out of all of my life. It’s the only lottery ticket I have because I left this one in the stew. One in the studio. But I gave man, I was like Megan rain up at Costas in the bar on Wednesday, uh, Tuesday, we were in amicis. Uh, there weren’t a lot of folks there because it was lunchtime in amicis, and we were kind of in the way we walked into this Christmas party that showed up in the beginning. But we’ve had a great couple of days Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Gina shock, you will hear her, as well as some other really kind of cool people. John roons joined us. Marty Conway proved that I know him, and he sat next to me for the very first time. Sam Sessa sat next to me for the very first time, and we discussed all sorts of rock and roll and fun. I also had a Christmas miracle that happened in Dundalk that you can find on Facebook that involves a Kansas Pacifica belt buckle, and I’ve already found the guy from Essex within five minutes, because, hey, it’s Baltimore, and I’m me, and you’re you, and this is Baltimore positive Luke Jones is here. They’re gonna play a football game. Feel like Letterman. It’s the holidays. It’s Pittsburgh week. It’s a Saturday night game. It’s for the AFC North crown. It’s a nationally televised cold weather Lamar Jackson versus future Hall of Famer Russell Wilson. I’ll say that, even though they say that about all sorts of people that aren’t, might not, he might not, I don’t know. Um, big game, dude. Uh, Happy Christmas. How are you? Man?
Luke Jones 01:41
Huge game. Huge game. I mean, you mentioned Raven Steelers, the stakes. I mean, it’s AFC North lead, or at least moving into a first place tie, as I’ve mentioned to you, and as I’ve continued to look at it, the tie breaker profile does not favor the Ravens here, so they have to win, and they need Pittsburgh to lose one of their final two, and Pittsburgh plays Kansas City and Cincinnati. So it’s very plausible, but the Ravens have to take care of business on Saturday, or that’s all mood. So biggest Raven Steelers game we have seen since 2016 Christmas Day with Antonio Brown reaching over the goal line. I’m very confident in saying that I even brought it up to Zach Gore that, interestingly enough, that was Zach Gore’s last NFL game. That’s when his neck, you know, he had the herniated disc issue, and then more of the imaging and all and they discovered his congenital spine condition that led to his retirement.
Nestor Aparicio 02:38
So this is why I love you and having you on because, like all of the Pittsburgh, Baltimore games really blend together for me. Oh, really years, like, I don’t specifically remember the time Anquan Boldin caught it or dropped it, or Tory Smith caught it or dropped it, or Todd he caught it. Like, literally there, or what uniforms they wear? Those jailbird uniforms they wear look like they come out of Three Stooges or out of a striper video from 1988 or like the killer bees from John Belushi. I can go on and on and on, but they all run together, and this one will be forgotten when Lamar is playing for the bears 10 years from now and whatever is happening right like but right here and right now, when I think about the big games, it’s been a while. I mean, right, it’s been a while in this rivalry, certainly of this magnitude, in this game, and the league really nailed these four teams. Oh, I mean, what they’re doing, they should all boycott and not play Christmas day. You as a Christian and me as a family man with my daughter in law, saying, hey, what time are we coming over? My wife’s like, Hey, you’re picking me up the airport at Christmas, like you always do, right? I’m coming up for a family I’m like, I’m picking up the middle of the game, right? Like, and then I had will graves on this week. And, you know, he covers the Steelers, the way you cover, um, he covers pit Panthers, the penguins. He He’s busier than you are, and for the Associated Press on Pittsburgh, he’s got to get out of bed at nine in the morning, hug his kids and go to the stadium at 10 o’clock to work on Christmas Day. It’s, it’s insane. But that being said, they this league has a a rotisserie fantasy little thing going on here with these four teams. And they picked the right four teams. I think right they
Luke Jones 04:22
did. I mean, I What, the only thing that you could have made better was if buffalo were inserted in that group rather than Houston. But Houston, I mean, they’ve clinched the AFC South. They I was just looking at it. They have the number one defense in DVO way. They haven’t lived up to expectations in the way that everyone thought they would. I think everyone thought Houston would take the next step. And if you’ve watched the Texans, they’ve been pretty good. They haven’t been better than that. But this is their chance, these, these next two games, all, all for these teams. You know, Kansas City has a little less than what is
Nestor Aparicio 04:53
their next? I mean, do they have a pathway to a two seater? I mean, like they don’t have a pathway to Houston? No.
Luke Jones 04:58
I mean, I mean, thank you. Really move, you know what? Yeah, they’re kind of, they’re pretty locked into four. It’s not impossible for them to move up to three, but when you kind of look at it, because while the Ravens or the Steelers are going to win Saturday, and then you see what happens after so, yeah, but it’s a chance for them, an eyeball test, you know, a psyche series of games for them where they can say, hey, everyone’s kind of been sleeping on us. We were the off season team that everyone was hyping to take the next step, to move into the Kansas City, buffalo, Baltimore, tier of AFC teams. And they haven’t done that, but they’ve been good enough in a dreadful division to put themselves in the tournament. But bringing it back to Raven Steelers, well, I thought they could
Nestor Aparicio 05:45
have been Cincinnati. Had the schedule makers done this, Cincinnati would have been the more obvious. But Baltimore, Pittsburgh’s always like a little bit of a dogfight that they could put on on Christmas. And you know that claps better than Cincinnati. And hey, man, wherever it is, it’s really good, is my point. And I guess, sure, to wrap my point of it all running together over 30 years of 60 games and the A F C championship game and the playoff games have gone both ways in a lot of this. It just feels like it’s been a Ray Lewis minute, or, you know, said and Heinz Ward minute, since any of this has been this relevant, and it’s exciting, man, it really is, especially with the health of this team, which I know you’re going to get into,
Luke Jones 06:25
right, right? But you just said it, and I think part of what you mentioned, how you said so many of those games have run together. Everything you just mentioned was pre 2016 right? I mean, when you look at what this rivalry has become, and we’ve talked about this, and I don’t want to lament the how this rivalry has waned in recent years, because Saturday is what you hope brings it back to the forefront, as far as being one of the best rivalries in the NFL, not because it’s got a legacy at this point, because it does for nearly a quarter century, but because
Nestor Aparicio 06:55
of talking that way though this week or both sides, Right? You’re out knowing
07:01
it’s funny because I wrote a Baltimore positive.com and look, I nothing I wrote was earth shattering from the standpoint of one, I think the Ravens need this from a psyche standpoint, not just because of Pittsburgh and they’ve lost eight of nine, but because of what lies ahead in Kansas City and January. And are we good, or are we a six loss team? There’s also our ass kicked for the second time at home by a division rival while being a touchdown favorite, right? Like, that’s why you wake up Sunday morning. That’s
Luke Jones 07:29
no good. There’s that. But there’s also the implications of that, which would mean you’re on the road the entire time, and we know, historically speaking, yes, in a perfect world, you’d have a first round by you’d have home field advantage. That’s not in the cards. We’ve known for two months. That wasn’t going to be in the cards for this football team. But you go back to the 2000 Ravens. You go back to the 2012 ravens, both historically, are viewed as, hey, road warriors. You know, they went to Nashville and beat Tennessee and Steve McNair. They went to the black hole and they beat the raiders in 2000 in 2012 it was going to Denver in the Mile High miracle and knocking off Tom Brady, avenging the loss from the year before. But both of those teams started with a home playoff game. Right? Historically, when you look at I went all the way back to the start of the 12 playoff team field, which was 1990 there have been four teams, four teams that have made it to the Super Bowl and won a Super Bowl where they played on the road exclusively in January. And the last 15 years, it’s been two teams, Green Bay back in 2010 and Tampa Bay in 2020 that was the COVID year. Nestor, they never played in a stadium that had more than 7000 fans in January. So what that tells you is, practically speaking, not a Ravens thing here, but just in a general way, when you look talk about playoff contenders, very few teams that don’t even have a single home playoff game make it through the tournament and make it through three road playoff games to get to to the Super Bowl to get to New Orleans this year. So they need to win from that standpoint as well. I mean, it’s that important for them. And look, let’s be clear, Saturday does not guarantee them anything. If they win, they’re still going to need another Pittsburgh loss, because if you look at it, if the Ravens win out, but Pittsburgh wins its final two, they’re still tied. Pittsburgh would have the tie breaker in terms of record in common games. So this really is needing Pittsburgh to lose, not just Saturday, but needing one more after that, which I think is very plausible when you’re saying Kansas City and even Cincinnati, who’s still hanging around with a small percentage chance of making the playoffs. So by the way,
Nestor Aparicio 09:44
there is a potential for Steelers to beat the ravens and the other game to go the other way. And then Christmas day doesn’t matter for anybody, like really matter at all. And that’s kind of a weird thing for the league too, to have those games on and have them be really scrimmages. I mean, if. The Ravens lose. I don’t. They don’t really have much to throw Lamar out there on Christmas Day and run around. And certainly the Steelers won’t have to throw around the whole lot to go beat the cheat. You know what I mean? Like it as competitive as we feel like it is here leading into Saturday night, the competition part of this, as we already said, Houston doesn’t really have an elevator right, or a floor they are where they are right. And we’re starting to get a little bit of that. This is what unlocks that, this Pittsburgh, Baltimore thing, I think, to some degree. And it also opens up whether that last weekend is going to mean anything, as far as playing the dogs of the division, and whether Jim Schwartz is going to come with the bulls trying to knock the Ravens somehow out of a division title. Because this thing is really up in the air. If the Ravens win the game, it makes it much tighter. It screws things up. If the Ravens lose,
Luke Jones 10:49
yeah, no question about it, it’s not. It doesn’t make it meaningless. Because I think if you’re the if you lose, obviously the divisions done, but you’d really like to have that top wild card spot, right? I mean, you’d rather in the first round of the playoffs. You’d rather go to Houston than Pittsburgh, or, heaven forbid, Buffalo in the first round. I mean, you’re gonna have to play those teams, but you’d rather put that off as long as you can. But
Nestor Aparicio 11:12
your round starts going Flacco thought going to Houston was a good idea. And look, hey,
Luke Jones 11:18
you get to this point, everyone’s good, right? I mean, even the worst playoff team is still decent. Like, Houston was
Nestor Aparicio 11:23
going to take the next step. And I’m like, well, they played two weeks into they won a game, lost, and so, like, I the next step. We’ve been waiting for the next step here. Then they took the next step last year and they tripped like, so the next step now here, obviously, but for all of these teams, that’s, you know, I’ve asked I had Seth Elkins from the lottery on Tuesday at AMI, she’s big Steelers fan. Think I had another Steelers fan at that talk to him. Went, Oh, well, nobody thinks Steelers can win the Super Bowl. Nobody. I mean, just they look at Russell Wilson and say, you know, just in a general sense. And I think that that’s an interesting observation. And look, man, six point. It’s, I think it’s six point now, with six and a half to start the beginning of the week. Steelers, it’s very easy for for Mike Tomlin is to do the Rodney Dangerfield thing, or for Russell Wilson to do the Rodney Dangerfield thing with that. And for Tom le Gump sake, we beat their ass every time. You know, bet on us. Yeah. I mean, that’s what this thing’s gonna be juicy by the time this is exciting. I mean, and I think to get down to the stadium and be a part of that this weekend and on the field, the tactical part of this, which I know you want to get to Pickens what, what that represents, them getting out on the field and ending it to your point. Steelers win. They take two weeks off and and sit at home and wait for whatever if they win, right? But if they lose, all hell breaks loose and they gotta go dog fight against the chiefs and against the Bengals at the end of the year, it becomes a different setup for everybody. There’s just so much at stake on both sides. So I think I feel like I can hear and give both speeches. But then there’s the game itself, and what Lamar and Derek Henry and this offense and Monken are going to try to do to control the ball and and play big boy ball against a big boy defense that knows how to play them, yeah, and
Luke Jones 13:11
we know what the history has been. I mean, Todd monkin talked about this on Wednesday. I mean, there was video from from out at practice of him really working with the wide receivers they were doing a ball security drill, and he kind of, he was pretty animated, and I think he was asked about it, and he said, Well, heck, I’ve been here for three Raven Steelers games, and we’ve turned the ball over eight times, right? And that’s something the Ravens haven’t done a lot of. When you look at them in their totality, over the last couple years, they haven’t turned the ball over very much. I mean, Lamar has three interceptions all season. Think about that. I mean, he’s second in the league in touchdown passes, and he’s only thrown three interceptions. So by the way, I want to
Nestor Aparicio 13:50
apologize to the guys on YouTube who hate me and and like that. I’m more pro Lamar lately. I mean, he’s up for a third MVP if he plays really well the next three weeks. Um, the Lamar thing for me from the beginning, was running into linebackers, but in a general sense, I always thought the sleight of hand would cost them fumbles. It really hasn’t, no matter what the running backs have been from Ingram straight through, sure that has not been in any I mean, it’s clear it’s a real big issue for Lamar, like Lamar takes ball security more seriously, and dare I say this, than Saint Joe Flacco, whom I, you know, my all time favorite, because Joe gun slung still did three weeks ago. You know what? He’s still will this weekend if he gets in the game, because his mindset was, I gotta throw it to win it, you know, like, I’m not going to pull back, I’m going to fire I’m going to have confidence in my wide receiver. I’m going to have confidence in myself and doing that. And it’s not that Lamar doesn’t do that, but Lamar does not turn the ball over, man, like that’s how you win an MVP. That’s how you get a $50 million contract. Ask Jameis Winston, who doesn’t take balls, right? Like That. That. Lamar has been great at it, but even better at it than the interception, the touchdown ratio, which is gaudy, supremely amazing, Hall of Fame worthy all of that, is that slight of hand thing. I really thought that that was messy no matter what it is, wherever it is, on cold days, on wet days, just, is it yours? Is it mine? Who’s got the edge all. Are we seeing the same thing when the balls in, in the mesh, right? They’re really good at it, man. I mean, we keep talking about it, but they’re awful at it against the Steelers. Yeah.
Luke Jones 15:31
I mean, it’s look, I mean, they’re, we’ve talked about this, they’ve played so out of character, and that’s what’s been so baffling about this stretch. And look, I mean, plenty of people myself included, have focused a lot on they’ve lost eight of nine. Keep in mind, over that stretch, there have been two games where they’ve rested starters, although they did win one of those, that was the RG three, 2019 finale, when they rested starters. And of course, last year, when they rested in week 18 and they lost, and you know that that was no big thing. Lamar has missed four games due to either COVID or injury, so we know that there are lots of caveats when you look at that, but there was no caveat when they when these teams played back in week 11. Oh, there was no caveat when these teams played back in October of last year, when Lamar actually individually played a really solid, good football game, until the interception at the end. But really was his receivers just failing him throughout that game. And then it got down to the last 90 seconds of the game, and can he pick it through a bomb to George Pickens and beat Marlon Humphrey and the Ravens lost because of that, right? I mean, it’s, these have been close games. The one earlier this year was about kickers, yeah, I mean, Justin Tucker and turnovers, right? And not finishing a couple drives, right? I mean, let’s, you know, it’s not just one thing, but it’s, you know, it’s been collective. And I follow
Nestor Aparicio 16:57
the ball on the goal line against the giants to start the game the other day, and I’m like, Come on, man. And then the penalties, come on. I mean, they win by three touchdowns. We got to love them up and give them praise. And I felt like a prick because the front of our website had penalties. I would think that the theme this week is penalties and turnovers, right? I mean, that’s, that’s a burr up, hardballs, ass, as to why we have five losses, and even if we win on Friday night, we to your point, we still got to go bust our ass and win more, right? I mean, like that, that,
Luke Jones 17:27
Oh, it’s not over, right? I mean, the last thing you want to happen have happen is you beat you finally break through and beat the Steelers, and then you’ve stubbed your toe against Houston on Christmas Day, which, but let’s call it what it is, regardless of me saying that Houston hasn’t living up, or hasn’t lived up to expectations of what people thought they might be considering the off season they had, you know, they brought in digs, they brought in joe mix in, they brought in a lot of off season additions to to beef up what had been a surprising team last year. But you lose that game, then suddenly could be right back where, right back where you thought, you know, right back in a position where you’re down the game, you know, especially if Pittsburgh can beat Kansas City. I mean, who knows what’s going to happen with mahomes, although he’s practicing, it looks like he’s going to play right for all the talk about his ankle, even just a few days ago. But I think what’s just so massive about this football game beyond the division, beyond the playoff implications, and not wanting to be in a position where you have to play three straight on the road, and knowing what kind of treacherous path that is just to try to get to a Super Bowl, let alone try to win, or even just to get to the A, F, C title game, and how challenging that is. This team just needs to win. They need to beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, how can you have any confidence that this January is going to go any differently if you can’t beat Pittsburgh in your own building? Knowing that I don’t think George Pickens is going to play. I mean, we’re talking about the end of the practice week, and he hasn’t played in two games and missed two practices to start the week. I mean, that’s not to say he won’t get out there, and they might make it look like he’s got a puncher’s chance. I think Watts gonna play. I’d be shocked if watt doesn’t play, but Pickens, I’m I’m less and less, I don’t wanna say confident. You know, I’m doubting that more and more that he’s not gonna play, but because he’s missed two games already and he’s barely practiced. So you’re talking about a Pittsburgh team that, let’s face it, doesn’t have a whole lot of explosiveness on offense. What they do have is very much driven by George Pickens. So if he’s not out there, it doesn’t mean they don’t have other wide receivers, but he’s their number one. And you look at this defense. This defense has taken away the big plays in recent weeks, right? I mean, it’s it’s gotten better in that way doesn’t mean it’s going to be perfect. Doesn’t mean that it’s elite, but it’s certainly inspiring more confidence than it did six weeks ago. I think that much is clear with Kyle Hamilton on the back end. We can get into that in a couple moments, but I just think collectively, you look at the. At this football team, Nestor and I mentioned that 2016 game, what was, when you really think about it, and you just said, all these games run together, but the last truly big, high stakes victory for the Baltimore Ravens against the Pittsburgh Steelers, it’s probably the 2014 playoff game, if we’re calling a spade a spade. So from that, looking at it through that lens, Justin Tucker, the irony of him being a major reason why they lost this, this most recent meeting, but he was on that team. But who else, who, who on this current roster has truly earned their stripes when it comes to Raven Steelers in terms of really winning a massive football game against the Pittsburgh Steelers. It’s a very, very small list. It’s a small list of guys that have won more than once against them. I mean, their one win over the last nine is that weird game where Kenny Pickett was knocked out. It was Mitchell Trubisky on Pittsburgh side. And Anthony Brown, the practice squad quarterback, finished the game for the Ravens because Lamar was out and Huntley got a concussion. So, I mean, we’re talking about, you’re really getting into the weeds of the details of ravens beating Steelers. And I went back and looked going back, beginning with that Christmas day game that, that Antonio Brown game. You know, where Pittsburgh wins the division. The ravens are knocked out of the playoffs that 2016 week. What week 16? I guess it was going back to that game. The ravens are four and 12 against the Pittsburgh Steelers. That covers the end of the Joe Flacco era, and that covers the totality of the Lamar era, understanding Lamar hasn’t played a whole lot against them, but still, you know, there’s still a defense that’s given up some late leads. There’s still other players who’ve made mistakes and come up small. So this is a huge game, I mean, for the division, but also for their psyche. I just think at some point in time you can downplay and say, well, we’re not really thinking about what happened in the previous eight or nine games. And I get it. Zay flowers wasn’t there when they were losing in 2020 you know, Kyle Hamilton wasn’t there when they lost both games in 2020 and lost in 2021
Nestor Aparicio 22:14
but in its constitutional memory of the veteran guys, very good to give any confidence to the younger guy, right? And Tucker’s not going to be the guy in there right now, not right now. Anyway, coffee and saying, hey, you know, we did this before. We’ll do it again. There is none of that, right, right? I mean, they’re just the game that they that we, you and I went to Pittsburgh, the Chad Steele looked at me like, What the hell are you doing here? And everybody in the Ravens office in front of you and me for six hours treated me like I’d never seen me before as I was eating Mr. Rooney’s cookies, um, the Ravens won that game, right? That was the Huntley game, right? Okay, I dude, they all run together. I know. I just remember being in the locker room talking to cola is Campbell and Ronnie Stanley, and they were all happy. They were listening to Latin music, as I remember it so
Luke Jones 23:05
but, but at the same time, let’s not look at that game and say that that was a an epic Raven Steelers game that people are going to remember 20 years from now. And that’s my point. I mean, this is an opportunity for not just Lamar. This is for Mark Andrews and Ronnie Stanley, who was a rookie when they lost that game on Christmas in 2016 and Marlon Humphrey and guys that have been around a long time who, let’s face it, have not won a ton of football games against the Pittsburgh Steelers, and especially when you’re talking about this game and the magnitude of this and wanting to keep your AFC North championship hopes alive and wanting to improve your playoff positioning and getting this off their back. I mean, Humphrey was asked about it, and I would agree with him. He kind of said it in terms of, you know, the proverbial getting over the hump. He thinks more about Kansas City in that way, and I think that’s fair. I mean, the chiefs have been the team that’s been to the top of the mountain three times in the last five years Pittsburgh hasn’t won a playoff game, and how many years now? Right? So they’ve kind of been in Pittsburgh keeps beating them in the regular season. Yeah, yes. And, I mean, they haven’t crossed paths in the playoffs in a decade. This is as close as it gets to
Nestor Aparicio 24:14
that, right? They’re on a they’re on a course, right? Oh,
Luke Jones 24:18
it very well possible, right? I mean, we could see it in the first round. Could be the second round, whatever. I mean, they’re both going to be in the playoffs. I mean, even if the Ravens lose Saturday. I mean, there’s, there’s a scenario this weekend where they can clinch a playoff spot without even winning. So that’s not in question, right? I mean, that’s, that’s not in question, but probably
Nestor Aparicio 24:34
does have a pathway to the three if the ravens and the Steelers choke, I mean, one of them’s going to lose Saturday, right? Yeah. So there, there might be a little way to make a four or five happen that way, but I don’t know. But yeah, I mean, as a raven guy, as a, as a, of all the places you could go in January, I don’t know, starting in Pittsburgh, to me, sounds just as good as starting in Houston, if you have to go on the road. I give them odds to go beat the Steelers for the reason that we’ll give right now, we all think the ravens are the better team. Their six point favorite. They’re at home. Defense is playing a little better. They’re healthy as hell. Pickens is a question mark. Watts QUESTION Yeah, Justin Tucker is a question mark till he has to kick it at home. And if you play well enough, you’d have to worry so much about that finish drives, as they say, worry about Justin Tucker in the extra point the Kyle Hamilton thing. I want to bring that up because I was gonna I would have led with that if I weren’t having so much fun with Genie shock and running around. Luke Jones is here. He is Baltimore. Luke, I was doing the Maryland crab cake tour earlier this week. You’re going to be hearing all of it. Brought to you by the Maryland lottery. Want to hold the Raven scratch off, because last one in my existence that I have our friends at Jiffy Lube MultiCare also supporting us. I’m wearing my liberty pure shirt. Doug workman and our team there one 800 clean water is the way to make that happen. And my well water and keeping me safe and fantastic during the holidays. But the Colly Hamilton thing, the change in the defense, the change in the structure, can I just ask you, what did they want him to do before, what would this sort of Eagle Eye Hawk roll up with the line of scrimmage, playing the bump, maybe blitzing the quarterback, maybe taking on a running back, I don’t know. But what was that position even called? Sort of more like an outside linebacker, kind of role, drafted as a safety. They obviously had different plans for him within the scheme of the defense. This predates Zach or right? This is sort of the mind frame of the organization, the mind’s eye the organization said, you know, he’s different than Ed Reed, he’s different than Chris McAllister. He’s different than Earl Thomas. He he’s he’s a guy we need to move around, rangy, tall, big enough to handle himself against the tight end like he’s a special dude, but maybe playing him in a traditional, you know, safety role, he’ll just go to the Hall of Famers that kind of see, I don’t know, but there’s clearly been a change. I’m not there to ask questions. You are. They would lie to me if I were there, but I know a lot about defense, because I used to sit in these meetings with Rex Ryan and Marvin Lewis and Mike Betton and thinking about how they think in utilizing this, there was another level they were trying to get to, and couldn’t get there because the other players were playing with their food. As you like to say, I love that expression, so I’ll use that for well
Luke Jones 27:21
there, there are two elements at work here. One, Kyle Hamilton’s a great football player, and to answer your question, it wasn’t one position that that was what made it beautiful, right? It was the fact that, and let’s be clear, it’s not as though he didn’t line up as a deep safety ever prior to the last four or five weeks. I mean, he’d done that plenty. He just wasn’t doing it as often because they were also asking him to play a lot of nickel. They were also asking him to play a lot of linebacker. When they went into the dime package, they would ask him to line up on the edge on occasion, and rush the passer. So he was doing all these different things. Can I
Nestor Aparicio 27:53
just do football education for just a few people that come in when the center comes to the line of scrimmage and you see him looking left and right and spinning the ball, and sometimes getting a penalty because he he jerks back after the ball set the center is calling out who the mic is to identify the defense. The center’s like, 51 is the mic. 52 is the mike when Kyle Hamilton’s at the line of scrimmage and two capable safeties are in the back, and let’s say they’re in dime and there’s three corners out on the field, and pick your poison as the Brandon Stevens and this melange of players and Trenton Simpson, who you think has hips and could drop in or maybe even set an edge like all these other players are out there, the center and the quarterback, and sometimes the quarterback is some slap Dick like Tim Boyle, who ran third team this week and doesn’t like and sometimes it’s Josh burrow, who’s three steps ahead of you and has two players in a hot tight end that he can read. So this is just me doing jerk football and X and O football, and I got Meryl Haj on next month next speaking of like, doing X’s and O’s and all that stuff. But there is a point where this is really effed up when you come to the line of scrimmage and you’re the you’re the center, and you can’t identify, and your quarter can at quarterback can’t identify, and your running back can’t pick up who’s coming, and you’re going to get blown you’re going to get your $50 million quarterback’s head taken off by Kyle Hamilton, maybe, or maybe he’s just going to take the tight end. So I, I’m with you in all of that. I just wanted to create some confusion out there for anybody listening, yeah,
Luke Jones 29:25
and all of that is great, but you need to have two safeties on the back end of the defense then that you trust. And that worked out really well until Travis Garcia came to town last year and the year before, but not so much the shift so. So the big, but the big factor here was not just moving Kyle Hamilton. And this is what they won’t say, because they don’t want to embarrass the guy, but it’s, it’s obvious at this point, they got Marcus Williams off the field. They were terrible with him on the back end of the defense. And Eddie Jackson. I mean, Eddie Jackson’s gone, you know, they cut him. Marcus Williams just a healthy scratch. So. So
Nestor Aparicio 30:01
it took me 12 weeks, 10 weeks to figure out, like, I mean, until we get a real safety, he’s the best one we are. I don’t and let’s put him back there, right? I mean, it wasn’t
Luke Jones 30:08
that it took them that long to figure it out. It was it took them that long to try to get Marcus Williams back on track, right, to try to get someone else, because we’ve talked about it. Look, Kyle Hamilton’s played great football on the back end of the defense, but we also notice he doesn’t make as many splash plays now, which, let me be clear, it’s your defense isn’t as valuable if he’s making splash plays, but then you’re giving up 20 plus yard completions on the back end, right? You have to, you know, there is a thing with
Nestor Aparicio 30:36
Simpson wasn’t making tackles either, right? So there is that point of, if I’m not up there, we’re screwed when the running back hits the edge, because he’s going to beat the linebacker, and we’re going to be in first and 10 all over again, right,
Luke Jones 30:53
right? So you look at this and you can only deal with the personnel that you have right now. I’m guessing one of their off season priorities after they release Marcus Williams is going to be let’s find another safety, because we want to be able to, even though we might play Hamilton on the back end a little more than we did in the past, we still want to be able to play him closer to the line of scrimmage when we
Nestor Aparicio 31:13
want to right the Super Bowl with him in the back. They
31:15
still, yeah, exactly. I mean, it’s it. This isn’t a
Luke Jones 31:19
perfect example, but think back to the year where Marshall yanda moved a left guard. I mean, that was something that was done out of necessity. Now, the difference there was Marshall’s shoulder was torn up, and he could only play for the opposite side because it protected his shoulder a little bit more. This isn’t that, but it’s the same principle in terms of having a need, and this is your best option to remedy that. And okay, Kyle Hamilton might not make as many splash plays that are going to show up on social media, but the coverage on the back end of the defense has been much better, much tighter, much cleaner. And the other element that I think at work here that is really interesting, that I knew, but I thought was telling because Mark Marlon, the Humphrey, wasn’t even asked about Hamilton specifically. He was just asked about the defense and the past defense specifically, and and cleaning up the coverage on the back end, and the fact that they haven’t given up nearly as many big plays. And look, let’s be clear, this defense isn’t perfect. They still give up too many penalties. You still don’t trust the past defense as much as you’d like, but it certainly has been much better than it was in the first half of the season. But Humphrey said, I really do think it’s Kyle Hamilton back there, not just because of what he does, but now he is able to see more of the defense and everything’s in front of him. And it’s not just what he’s doing, it’s also, hey Marlon, adjust this, you know, adjust your alignment here. Or, hey, linebackers in front of me, watch out for this. I mean, he, he’s really in the same way you thought about Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. You know, Hamilton’s not the vocal guy like Ray Lewis. Not that Ed Reed was a very vocal guy either. But he’s cut from the same cloth, in terms of, I think he’s just that smart. I think he processes really well. And I think with him being where he is now, compared to being up in the box and the bullets are flying and, you know, it’s much quicker, you’re much closer to the line. Can get behind him there? Yeah, well, but also, from a priest, he will get behind him if he’s rushing the quarterback, right, right? But from, but from a pre snap standpoint. Now everything is in front of him, the defense’s alignment, the offenses formation, and I think it allows him to be a little more vocal in terms of positioning, people making an adjustment. Oh, it’s also
Nestor Aparicio 33:32
what got him drafted, sure. I mean, it’s what it’s what it’s what he did traditionally, and did so well that they drafted him and said, Hey, we’re going to have a special Lawrence Taylor role for you. You know what I mean? Like, that’s really kind of what they did with him, or maybe a Peter bolware role. I you know, I’m, I’m not sure exactly what I would say, because at any point he he’s a hybrid, right?
Luke Jones 33:56
And again, long term, I think you still want to have a little more flexibility to use him in that way than they’re using him right now, but he’s still doing some of that. They just have to pick their spots a little bit
Nestor Aparicio 34:06
more. I call them a hybrid. You called him a unicorn, but, but it’s really, it’s really
Luke Jones 34:10
come down to him playing more deep safety. They’ve gone away from three safety alignments, obviously. And our Darius Washington’s a big part of this as well. He’s played clean football on the back end, and they’ve gone to more. You know, when they’re in nickel, there are three corners on the field. Now, okay, that’s not terribly unique. They’ve used plenty of three corner alignments the last couple years. But when they’ve gone dime, which historically, over the time that I’ve covered the team when they’ve gone dime, it’s been three safeties being on the field, and it’s a safety like Kyle Hamilton or Anthony Levine or Chuck Clark playing in the box, playing closer to the line of scrimmage. Now, when they go dime, they’re using four corners, and it’s been Wiggins and Marlon Humphrey they drafted to do that right? That was. In it. That was a institutional off season decision, correct, what to move the poor? No, I mean, that not based on personnel. They that was, that was solely about Eddie Jackson and Marcus Williams not doing the job. So they brought intranets white, who’s done a nice job in a part time role. You know, more and more people are clamoring for him to play over Brandon Stevens. So, well,
Nestor Aparicio 35:20
the Brandon Stevens parts weird, because I still, I think of him as a safety, right? Who was doing more corner? That’s where it becomes very that’s where even I get confused and say, well, they drafted Wiggins, and they had Stevens, and they, you know, who do they want on the field depends on what play. None of these guys are going to play all the time, right? They’ve done
Luke Jones 35:40
plenty of that, and they still do that, but it’s just been fundamentally, Hamilton playing off the line of scrimmage more, and they’ve really moved away from three safety alignments, whether you’re talking nickel or dime, they’re going with three corners, which, hey, you have Marlon Humphrey at the nickel. He’s played there a lot over the last seven, eight years. Wiggins on the outside, you know, Stevens, I mean that that’s another position, you know. I’m not saying he’s going to get benched, but I’m watching that right. And I think what’s interesting is we’ve seen now back to back games, you know, but the Philadelphia game and now coming out of the buy, Marcus Williams is a healthy scratch. So the question becomes, what happens if one of their safeties gets gets hurt? And I think it comes down to probably Brandon Stevens moving back to safety. In fact, if you go and review the Giants game, and I’m not saying anyone wants to, because it was a terrible football game in terms of competitiveness, because it was so lopsided, but if you actually look at that game, late in the game, they had Brandon Stevens playing some safety. And I thought that was deliberate, from a standpoint of, not that they’re going to transition him there permanently, but if they have a need, if some if, heaven forbid, if Kyle Hamilton or Darius Washington get hurt in the middle of the game. No, I don’t think they’re putting Bo braid or senuss Kane out there, who are undrafted rookies, who are special teams players, I think what you’d see is Brandon Stevens moving to a safety spot, and then they would just go with Wiggins, Humphrey and tredavius White as their three corners then. So look, Hamilton is the big piece here, right? And I don’t say that to be dismissive about him. I’ve gone on record with you as saying I think Kyle Hamilton has the potential, and he’s got to do this for a long time, but I think he has the potential to go down as one of the three best defensive players in the history of the franchise. Terrell Suggs is going to be in the Hall of Fame. So we’re talking about three Hall of Fame defensive players in the history of this franchise, and I’m saying that I think Kyle Hamilton can be in the top three. I’m not going to put them with Ray Lewis and Ed Reed, because no one, until they force their way into that, no one deserves to be mentioned in that category. But I do think highly enough of Kyle Hamilton’s talent and his pedigree to think that he can be in that Terrell, Suggs Fauci not a tier at the very least, which that’s saying something. You know me. I’m not. I’m not Mr. Hot take. You know me well enough you
Nestor Aparicio 38:04
don’t think Marlon Humphreys there. We don’t think Chris McAllister is there. I mean, we go through the list of you know CJ Mosby. They have very good here. I
Luke Jones 38:11
don’t put Peter Boulware there. Peter Boulware is a Ring of Honor guy, but I don’t put him in that top one or two tiers. He’s in that third tier. For me. I think Hamilton could be in that second tier. I mean, that’s how special I think he can be. Of course, he’s in year three, and he’s got to do it for another 678, years at a minimum. And that’s a lot to ask of any football player, but that’s the kind of player we’re talking about here. And I think to me, it was just telling to hear Humphrey, and even Zach or on Wednesday was talking about that. And look, you and I have still talked about doubts about the defense. The penalties have been an issue. They still give up too much on in the past. Defense more than you’d like, but it certainly has stabilized, and it’s not a bottom five unit anymore, in my mind, regardless of what the stats might look like at this point. You know, in terms of rate, DVO, way things of that nature, it has ascend. It has ascended. It’s trending in the right direction, as people would say. But Hamilton’s a massive reason why, and they’ve had to use it a little bit differently. And from a long term perspective, I think you’d like to get them back to more of that hybrid role. But hey, this is where they are right now. You know, in the same way that you think about when you have season ending injuries and you have to adjust right? Marcus Williams, they just had to put it in their mind that whatever he is at this point, it’s not the guy that they signed a couple years ago. So you have to treat it like a season ending injury, almost, and just say, hey, we can’t keep trying to force a square peg into a round hole, because he’s just not doing the job. And they made that decision after that Bengals Thursday night game, and I think he’s played two total snap since then, right? I mean, it speaks for itself where they went safety wise, in the same way that Trenton Simpson was benched against the giants, and now they’re going with the a timeshare of Malik. Harrison and Chris board and and, look, they’ve done those, that kind of thing in the past. They’ve, they’ve had the weak side spot kind of be a timeshare. You can go all the way back to, you know, Josh Bynes and LJ Ford, or go back to, even, I’m thinking about tamaras Gooden and Jameel McLean or Danielle Ellerby. You know, they’ve had guys kind of share that spot. And they’ve, they’ve done that because they said, Hey, Trenton Simpson, we love you. We think he can still be a good player. But you’re not doing it for us right now. You know,
Nestor Aparicio 40:27
you’re the best players have to be on the field. That’s a horrible thing. That’s a that’s a sports thing.
Luke Jones 40:31
So So we’ve very much have seen the the evolution of the defense in that way. And you know, that doesn’t mean it’s not going to change again between now and January, but this is where it is right now, but I think it’s it was interesting to hear Humphrey, who’s a long time veteran, you know, say what you want about him, you know, as far as injuries last year or anything like that, but he’s had a heck of a year, and he is their longest tenured defensive player. When you look at it, he went out of his way to compliment Kyle Hamilton and the factor of him moving to that spot, and Zach Gore did as well. So it’s not the only thing, but it’s a big reason why this defense is playing better, and it’s a big reason why this defense needs to not give up those Russell Wilson Moon balls that you know, even if Pickens isn’t out there. He’s going to try it to Mike Williams or Calvin Austin or van Jefferson. The Ravens have to have guys in position. And Kyle Hamilton has done a much better job, not just himself, of course, but also making sure everyone else is a calibrated the way they need to be. Pre snap. You want
Nestor Aparicio 41:37
to make sure that the yins and that aren’t yelling moves in our stadium on Saturday night. Luke Jones is here. He will be there. It is Christmas week. Happy holidays to everybody celebrating. Do it safely, responsibly. Enjoy the eggnog, because it is delicious this time of year. And make sure you’re listening. I mean, we’ve my whole roster of people we’ve had here during the crab cake tour has been a lot of fun this week, but we visited with Alan McCallum. Talked a lot of baseball with him. Matt Campbell from the Baltimore Convention Center. I surprised them. Their best of friends. They both got invited to amicis. Neither one knew they were showing up, and they both showed up, and we wound up doing some radio. Calvin stadium, my middle school music teacher, who is beloved, also Pikesville middle school teacher. I only taught 59 years in Baltimore County, just 59 years joined us. Hall of Fame. Regina shop was with us. My pal Pete ramondi came on and gave some insurance reminders from Erie Insurance. You hear their ads here as well. John maroon, who doesn’t mind being called, Cal’s guy, we went through that for about an hour, Cal’s guy, so we did a whole little baseball history in retrospective and where Cal is and where Mr. Rubenstein is down at amicis on Tuesday, as well as Marty Conway, the good professor, came on also, and you’ll appreciate this, Luke, because you’re a raven historian. Mark clay former first round wide receiver, Mark Clayton joined me this week to talk about his sexy exy athletic headphones that the parkour kids can, like, climb walls, and their headsets don’t fall off, and they can listen to Led Zeppelin. They’re not listening to Led Zeppelin. They’re probably listening to slightly stupid or something like that, or maybe my show, which is slightly stupid sometimes. It’s all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery and our friends at Jiffy Lube MultiCare. We’re putting it back out on the road on January the seventh, we’re coming to and this is a holiday shout out to coach. Buzz Bel, air, Metro, auto parts. Buzz, battagli, that’s one of my old spots from 30 years ago. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We’re having fun. We are wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, buckle your chin straps. We’ll be back here talking football on Monday morning. Enjoy the game. Happy holidays. You.
