With jobs on the offensive line being the true focus for fans during training camp in Owings Mills, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the overall goals of the Todd Monken offense in Year Two with Lamar Jackson and Derrick Henry in the backfield and a full contingent of receivers returning for the reigning MVP quarterback.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
year, lamar, play, ravens, derrick henry, offensive line, talking, running, game, january, regular season, quarterback, ball, offense, football, chiefs, orioles, lamar jackson, days, number
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:02
Welcome home we are W n s t TAS Baltimore am 5070 and Baltimore positive we are positively getting the Maryland crabcake door back out on the road later on this month a cheat Stroz coming to town will be at fade Lee’s even though wearing my state fair shirt will be at state fair on September the 24th. I learned that earlier this week with county executive Angela alsobrooks and Prince George’s County. She’s running for US Senator against Larry Hogan. We have an invitation out to the former governor as well hope to have them both on hook to give them both a Maryland lottery scratch offs from the Maryland lottery Gold Rush sevens doublers I will have the Ravens scratch offs by the time we get to the oyster tour in September. It is now it’s not an arm month. But it’s an arm month for ravens It is August that is football month around here. We’ll get the crab cake tour back out also brought to you by our friends at Liberty pure solutions, keeping our water crystal clear which makes my coffee even more delicious, as well as our friends at Jiffy Lube multi care who is powered Luca and getting Luke down to Camden Yards for various Mike Elias press conferences and trading deadline things. Orioles now I’m back out on the road. There’ll be Cleveland this weekend and Luke will be settled in in Owings Mills were there. I used to call them two days and all that I don’t know what they call them now. We used to say well training camps in August and it started three weeks ago. It feels like for you at least. But it’s finally August. They’re gonna play some fake football here. Shortly next weekend. They had this Green Bay thing going on so just you were away a little bit too. You were on baseball duty and trade deadline duty and all that and Lord knows they made enough moves. How’s the football thing going? It’s been a you hadn’t seen Lamar throw a pass and anger after I don’t think in a while. Right? Well,
Luke Jones 01:45
I saw him throw over the weekend. But I wasn’t there Monday and Tuesday and I thought okay, I don’t want to miss three straight days of practice. Trade deadlines over and then of course they they recall Jackson holiday and Jordan Westbrook gets hurt on Wednesday. And the Ravens ever after they had practiced in pads for the previous five days. They were in shells in shorts that it wasn’t much of a practice on Wednesday, something man I really made the wrong decision here in terms of missing the action. But it’s funny you mentioned it being August and your point is well taken about it feeling like training camps already been going for quite a while. I actually was talking to a raven staffer. It was just a day or two ago. And they said Man, we’re in the dog days of camp. I said dude, chill out even it’s not even August yet.
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:33
I mean, we got a long way to go. I mean,
Luke Jones 02:34
the Hall of Fame Game is just this week where no starters are playing. The Ravens will kick off the preseason next Friday. No starters are playing other than the guys that are trying to be starters and we don’t know if they’re going to be starters just yet. So there’s such a sense of hurry up and wait in terms of waiting for the next notable thing to happen. But in the meantime, they’re getting their work in and they have put on the pads over the last week and we’ve we’ve talked so much about the Ravens or the Orioles with weisberg’s injury McCann having his nose broken all that the Ravens it’s been going okay from a health standpoint, they did lose Malik ham. The rookie edge rusher who made the team last year as an undrafted, free agent but was on IR never got to the field. He tore his ACL on Monday unfortunate I’m not convinced he was going to make the 53 man roster but John Harbaugh as he’s apt to do when someone gets injured he’s going to prop them up and offer encouraging words you know he expressed the sentiment that multicam was going to play for them this year and we’ve talked about the The Drudge edge rusher battle and not so much for the starters away in Kyle van Noy are going to be those guys but what about David a job? Oh, what about TVs? Robinson? What about at these Isaac, the rookie third round pick who’s still in the NFIB list. So there’s there are definitely snaps to be one there. So Malik ham out of that picture, beyond that kind of just dealing with camp issues and soreness and some tweaks hamstrings and things of that nature and stuff that you fully expect this time of year, but nothing that season altering. So in the meantime, they’re just, you know, the plugging along, they’re stacking days as coaches like to describe it as and trying to figure out what this offensive line is going to look like trying to figure out in a different way. How the secondaries going to look because of the depth they have there. I think Zach or has Yeah, I don’t know if it’s an embarrassment of riches, but there’s definitely some improved depth that a few months ago you and I weren’t necessarily talking about. So what’s that going to look like in terms of the nickel, the dime, different variations of that they can play so you know, the this time of year, you’re just you’re getting glimpses of that and they’re not making any firm decisions. You know, we’ve talked about this with the O line I fully expect them to still rotate some guys and try out some different alignments and everything but to your point you know we’re talking about the calendar turning the August you know, we’re still a month plus out until they play a real game. So still a lot of time here to to let the different position battles Marriott marinate and to really feel you know get a better feel for what this football team is going to look like but expectations are high. We certainly know that.
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:27
I want to ask you about the offense a little bit because you and I have a deep dive to argued much about Lamar passing versus Lamar running versus Eddie George letter asking came on and the first thing he’s a fan you know, he’ll admit he’s not much more or less than that. But he’s like, Lamar looks skinny. He looks like he’s gonna get broken in half. And I’m like when you stand next to Eddie George. He’s gonna look small. Or Eddie George Derrick Henry excuse is gonna say, Man, talk
Luke Jones 05:50
about a slip right there. Yeah.
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:52
I’ve been on Euler. I’ve been on Euler websites too much lately. Mike, did you see my roll Campbell sweater by the way? I’m gonna wear that one day. I did. Sharp it’s too warm out to wear.
Luke Jones 06:04
That’s a winter late fall kind of Jersey. Yeah, that’s a definite like winter.
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:09
I mean, it’s thick. So nonetheless, Derrick Henry, my other favorite oil running back for at least for one day last year. And, and what the balance will look like what, and Harbaugh always hated this question. It’s one of the reasons he threw me out and then lied about it. But I would say, even if I was sitting in his office, which I did many times just d&i, I say What’s it supposed to look like when it’s over with and he would always just look like victory. Okay, John. The stats at the end of the year have never been normal for Lamar. They’ve never been anything like what you would measure against the history of the game for how we measure quarterbacks passing efficiency, interceptions, touchdowns, those kinds of things. It’s a different measurement. I’ve often wondered, and from the beginning, and I’ve, I’ve wondered out loud to the cosmos, because even when I’ve asked them, even when I’ve asked Eric, the cost of sitting on a plane next to me, what’s this? But what’s the balance supposed to look like? Ideally, when you draw it up at the beginning of the year to say, how much Lamar, how much Henry? How much Andrews and I say this to you every year, like, let’s write down those sets how many balls is Odell? Beckham gonna get? And by the way, dude, whatever I said last year, that was flippin and nasty. And all of that. I probably said he was gonna catch 40 balls. I probably said that. And I’m sure I did. I can go back to the transcripts. But this is the time of year where I look at it and say, What are we penciling? Likely in for? What do we pencil in androids? What’s the real expectation for flowers in year two? What’s the real expectation for Bateman? After they’ve given him the money? It’s talk all this greatness about him that we’ve never seen that we’ve only seen a sparkers. I mean, he’s been a difference maker at all. For where they drafted him. Flowers feels like he could be but it feels like when we talk about this team, and we get all moist. And we all start clearing our schedules for January into February and only where’s the Super Bowl this year? Where am I not going? New Orleans? All right. I’m not going to New Orleans. Been there had to been days. It’s lovely. We had a hell of a break, go see the videos. When that happens, what’s what how was this successful? And I don’t mean, what every flippant jerk fan would say which is Buddha run the ball more than three times against the chiefs in the championship game at home. I mean, it sounds ridiculous for me to even say that six months later. I don’t mean that. I mean, over the course of the season if this thing goes perfectly. What does this offense look like? It’s like the line. But what what are they blocking for? And how often do you really want Derek and really touched the ball in his 30s? And how often do you really want Lamar Jackson running the ball? These days? Yeah. Yeah, I
Luke Jones 08:59
mean, I don’t think it’s gonna look dramatically different. And why would it they went 13 and four last year they were the best team in the NFL in the regular season. It’s so funny when people ask me this and I’m you know, I’m not picking on you because I do other radio hits and other markets and especially their when you’re here. Right? Right. But but when you look at like, you know, when you talk about it from a 30,000 foot, big picture perspective, people asked me what the Ravens need to do differently to get over the hump. And it’s just like, look, it’s nothing really in the regular season. I mean, the regular seasons have been great, the regular seasons when Lamar Jackson has been healthy. They haven’t had issues they’ve been either the number one seed or they’re winning the division or you know, they’re comfortably in the playoff field. So, it really does come down to what does January look like? And I don’t say that to be flippant, you know, I’m kind of doing the opposite of of kind of what The questions you posed. They need to play better when they get to that moment. There was nothing wrong with their team last year until they just played like, you know what, against the chiefs. And from Lamar on down and the coaching staff on down, I mean that they just collectively kind of turtled up. And you can’t do that on the biggest stage. So I don’t think it’s any anything fundamental that they really need to change other than just you need to be better in the biggest moment. And that sounds very simplistic, but I’m talking about a team that was the best in the NFL last year, I’m talking about a team that was the best in the NFL in 2019. I’m talking about a quarterback who’s won the MVP twice in the last five years. One of the
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:43
reasons he wins the MVP, he has a throw interceptions, man. Yeah. Just the more and one of the things we were always concerned about was that, that that that mesh point of the ball hitting the ground a lot. And that’s happened. And it’s been unfortunate, and Lamar has thrown interceptions and have cost them games. And that’s what happens when you you’ve been playing for six, six years. And and I look at the season stats, and some of them are really truncated, because he just stopped playing in November a couple of the years. So you know, he doesn’t get over 3000 your expenses. But the amazing thing is I’m on. I am on a pro football reference, which baseball reference is better, but pro football rubs. They don’t even have rushing stats for quarterbacks. It’s not built into their algorithm, I have to figure out how to find his rushing yards off of the stat package as I go left and right on it. Because quarterbacks don’t. We don’t judge them on rushing yards. But we judge Lamar on that. And I think this whole thing about having a horse running back, which one of the two of us had been recommending Derrick Henry or Eddie George or, you know, Barry word or Krishna coin a or anybody else that could be something called and I said Mark Ingram, who I liked more than you did. But I feel like they have not played their ideal football yet. If that, if that makes any sense. If at any point I were to say to harp on, he’s really being honest with me. And he and I were like old school, like Billick and I would do would sit in there and pencil it out and say, What do you really want from Lamar this year, you want him to throw the ball for under times three, we want to make times you really want him to run the play 17 games, John? So if you say 170, that’s 10 times a game. So let you know, I’m just trying to factor this out over the year, because that’s the way they have to do it this time of year to say, load management. How much is too much. Hey, John Lamar ran the ball 21 Times today and you have to play in four days. Is that a good idea? He liked that question. He threw me out for that three years ago. So. And clearly it was too much running. And clearly, three runs against the chiefs and Holmes not good enough, in retrospect, and it’s a thing that, you know, I mean, we’re gonna burn Buck show Walter for leaving Zach Britton on the bench, if that’s the high watermark if they never get back to a championship game with Lamar. And that’s possible. And that never happens. Oh, my God, he should fry for, I mean, as a head coach, as an organization for the game plan that they pulled out at home against Patrick mahomes. And the chiefs. Now, they, they better hope they live long enough and play well enough to rectify that at some point. Right. I mean, you know, and rectifying that means Derrick Henry, and that’s why you have a guy like that. I just think their power running game this year. Could be amazing. But we don’t know anything about their offensive line. So then I go back to oh, this is what happens. They fall behind 1010 points. And Lamar tries to do everything himself. That’s the way it’s been for six years. won’t have to do that. But this the offensive line is the big the big banana and all this because passing and running Lamar, none of this goes if that’s as leaky as it could be. I mean, they don’t have ISS they have nothing but my BS on the offensive line. So if it all works out, how does this look?
Luke Jones 13:59
I think it looks very similar to last year, and I don’t mean the AFC Championship game. I mean, what they did last year, they lead the league in rushing I’m gonna I’m gonna continue to remind you of this. They led the league in rushing last year like, I am fine with the Derrick Henry acquisition but this idea that he is this transfer transformative figure now better than Gus Edwards better than JK Dobbins better than Mark Ingram all that I’m on board with that, but it’s I don’t think they’re going to double their rushing attempts or anything like that they already run the ball time is my point. Even with their running backs. A yard and a half more on every rush they won’t happen was just rushing. They’re not you know, I’m not sure they’re going to increase their yards per carry. Hey,
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:42
dude, there’s nothing better than Lamar in second in one and second into all day or second. I mean, we saw that 19 And Marshall yonder is watching the game still looking for it, literally.
Luke Jones 14:51
Yeah. So So I think what we’re looking at I mean, I’m just let’s just look at the Mars two MVP seasons just to make it more of an E easier looking at numbers. So in 2019 Lamar played 15 games set out the regular season finale. He carried the ball 176 times in 2023 played 16 games so set out of course the regular season finale, he ran the ball 148 times what that so obviously he was carrying more than 10 times a game in 2019 and 2023 was just under 10 times a game. Yeah, it was right around nine carries per game. Now what that doesn’t tell you is Lamar Jackson’s designed run percentage dropped dramatically in 2023. They did not run Lamar as a designed run, pre snap designed run nearly as much with Todd Monken at the helm compared to Greg Roman and well they also lost large acts for
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:51
two years injured and you would say well he didn’t get injured passing the ball he got injured but they don’t there’s a reason they wear red jersey out there when you’re running around and you have the access that I don’t have they don’t want to touch the quarterback. So designing plays in the huddle to get your quarterback tackled running into heat. I it stunned me in Canton the first time I saw it seven years ago, and they’ve gotten away from that. And I’m sure Todd Monken came in and said we don’t we want we design one run he goes into runs into somebody. That was a bad play call.
Luke Jones 16:27
I mean, we’re going to disagree about that. Lamar Jackson running the football is not a bad play call. Now, Lamar Jackson, premeditated doing that 22 times. And look, they never went into a game saying deliberately, they want memorial to run 22 times. When you’re in the midst of a game though, and you need to win a football game. And that’s your best play. You got to do it. And that’s where I will take up for John Harbaugh a little bit not in how he answers your question about that. Not in the tone, but in understanding that you don’t sit down and gameplan and say, Okay, how are we going to win this week, guys? All right, we’re going to get Lamar 23 carries. And Derrick Henry is going to carry this number of times and say flowers is going to catch it doesn’t work that way. You have a you have a game plan put in mind in terms of what you do well, what your opponent does, well, what they don’t do well, who you’re going to target in coverage, because you say Oh, that guy can’t play we need to isolate him against Mark Andrews, and we’re going to dominate there. But you don’t sit there filling out like a fantasy football box score as far as what it’s going to look like. So then you
Nestor J. Aparicio 17:28
game again for the biggest game of the year, or the biggest game of your career run the ball three times. And eight months later, nobody’s answered much of a question about how the hell did that happen? How did that lets
Luke Jones 17:39
me show you what happened again, I’ll tell you asked how it happened in early down situations early in the game when it was a game neutral situation, meaning they weren’t up by three touchdowns in the way that they were quite often up by three touchdowns last year, they threw the ball a lot more than than people realize. Now, I am not saying that explains all of it. I am not for Todd Monken and John hardball for all of that. But I think people also need to understand what their offense actually was last year, which was a much more balanced offense in the first half when it was still close games. And they threw the ball way more than people think and early down situations. And then as games went on, and they took leads, they were able to bleed the game with their running game, even even if it wasn’t as dominant with Gus Edwards and Justice Hill, as it had been with Gus Edwards a few years early or Mark Ingram five, you know, three or four years earlier. So in that way, yeah, I think they’re gonna run the ball more, it may be in those situations, because you will have Derrick Henry, but, you know, I don’t think they’re turning back the clock to be in as run heavy as they were in 2018 and 19. Because I just don’t think that’s how you win football. I don’t think that that’s how you win football games in 2024. I just don’t think you have to throw the football. Now. That doesn’t mean you become you know, Lamar is going to throw it 650 times. You know, Lamar had a career high in pass attempts last year. And he was at 457. You know, that’s still on the lower spectrum of what you typically look at with quarterbacks who put up these big passing numbers. So I think what was good about that, and this is where I would say, you know, don’t, don’t fall back into all but you just have to run the ball because you made this point yourself. Lamar Jackson, despite throwing a career high number of times still only had seven interceptions. So it worked. It was efficient. It was going well, you know, he had a career high in yards per attempt. He had a career high and completion percentage. So just because of what happened in the Kansas City game, and just because, yeah, Gus Edwards was at a point where it looked like probably not going to hold up nearly as well. I’m going to be interested to see what he looks like with the Chargers compared to what he looked like with the Ravens in previous years. So I think that’s a factor but just pick cuz you’re adding Derrick Henry, and this is where I’ll get into again, difference between regular season and the postseason nester, the last thing I want to see is the Ravens run Derrick Henry, so much in the regular season that I’m then having questions as far as how fresh he is, for January. Every move they make at this point is about January, I don’t care what they do in the regular season. I really don’t. And when I say that, I mean, with the understanding that, yes, they’re gonna win games and be what they’ve been under Lamar, which is a consistent playoff team and consistently playing into the divisional round of January. But this isn’t about oh, can we go 15 In two rather than 13? And four? You know, this is the same argument we’ve been having not argument but just conversation we’ve been having with the Orioles in terms of, okay, they want 101 games, and they got swept in the in the divisional series. Does that mean they need to win 106 games this year to take the next step? No, that’s not how it works at all, you know, the Orioles could win 95 games or 92 games, when it’s all said and done, and people won’t be nearly as high on them. And if they win a World Series, everyone will be happy. And they will care about what their regular season record was. The ravens are in the same boat at this point. It’s not about drastically changing their identity. But they do want to be able to run the ball better in situations. And I think more so maybe if they can mix in a few more runs earlier in games when it’s closer, and maybe not have to. Certainly don’t want to be in a position that they were in against the chiefs. I hear all that you know, and that’s where I say I’m fine. You know, I never said I hated the Derrick Henry acquisition. It’s just for me, it’s fundamentally understanding what your identity is. I’ve heard some people say the ravens, they’ll be able to close out games better now. They won’t have they had issues closing out games over the history of the Lamar Jackson era. I mean, Gus Edwards was a really good closer, I think if you just want to say Derrick Henry’s an upgrade over that shore. But that’s not something that they struggled to do. So for me, this is all about January. So I’m looking at the run, run pass balanced all the different things last year, I didn’t have a problem with what they were doing in the regular season last year. It’s about getting to that moment. So for me, I don’t have any edge. Let me rephrase that. I don’t want to say I don’t have interest because it would be remarkable to watch. But the goal shouldn’t be for Derrick Henry to have 2000 rushing yards in the regular season. Right? I mean, I don’t want this to you know, I don’t think this needs to be all Derrick Henry carries. 300 sometimes and Lamar doesn’t run at all anymore. Like I love Lamar Jackson running the football. I don’t love them running it 22 times. But I I can’t disagree with you more about having you know, I have no issue with them are being in that eight to 10 Rushing attempts. area that is typically where he is right. I mean, again, you don’t want the extreme 22. And there haven’t been nearly as many of those have since his first couple years in the league. But yeah, Derrick Henry is going to have a bigger workload, I’m guessing you’re not going to see timeshare numbers like we saw in the past with Gus Edwards and Dobbins and Justice Hill and go down the list of all the running backs they had in 2021. Derrick Henry is going to have a bigger workload than those guys. But ideally, and I’m not counting the year he was hurt a few years back, I’d like to see Derrick Henry maybe be on the much lower end of his regular season carries with thoughts that then if you can lean into him a little bit harder if a game dictates that, whether it’s lousy weather, whether it’s bitterly cold, whether it’s a case, where you do jump out to a nice lead in the first half, then yeah, you can lean on him and beat make that a little bit better. So, you know, I just, I look at what they did last year, offensively. And to me, I’m much more excited about building what they did in the passing game, not scaling it back. Because I still think you’re gonna have to throw the football to win. Doesn’t mean every single week doesn’t mean you throw 50 times let’s be clear about that. But they’re gonna have to throw the football in some big and some big spots. And look, you get back to the to the AFC Championship and you’re playing the chiefs. Again, that doesn’t mean you’re going to the key to victory is necessarily going to be running at 45 times either, you know, you’re still gonna have to make plays, and we can keep talking about the game plan, but they need their franchise quarterback to play better going up against Patrick mahomes. And Lamar would agree with that mind us. So it’s not, for me some fundamental change that needs to happen as far as what their season numbers look like. I’d be fine. If it looked very similar. It’s up. I’m guessing instead of Gus Edwards having this amount of the carries and Justice Hill having this amount and it whatever the split was, it wasn’t 5050 obviously, but it’ll be much More of a dominant Derrick Henry Peace and Justice Hill having a smaller piece of it. So, you know that that was kind of a long drawn out answer to what you asked me. But, you know, I, I don’t have any, like I don’t look at this offense and say, Oh, this needs to be different in the regular season. No, it does. And their offense was great last year in the regular season, they need to be better in that moment when they get to January. And yes, Derrick Henry is a great tool to add to your collective toolbox of ways that you can win, especially considering it looks like Gus Edwards was on the decline. But at the same time, Derrick Henry is also 30 years old, he’s not 25. So that’s where I said, You better be cognizant of wanting to keep Derrick Henry as fresh as possible for January because if you get a lesser version of Derrick Henry in January, I don’t care if he runs for 1600 yards in the regular season, then I would say, that move didn’t get them over the hump, after all, so that’s where I kind of say, if anything, you know, keep your foot off the gas a little bit more with him in the regular season. And then I want him fresh as possible for January because that’s when it’s all that matters. And again, I’m gonna we’re gonna talk about this all year, and I know you’re in agreement on this. It’s all about January, it’s all about January. Yeah. Enjoy the games and it’s football season and we’re looking forward to that and my goodness Lamar is an amazing talent and this defense I think, is going to be excellent and I am intrigued to see if they can work more of the two tight end stuff in with Andrews and likely on the field. So I think that’s a factor. But the Derrick Henry effect is one thing for me I’ll I’ll address something that I’ve uttered in previous years. Who is the number three receiving option to emerge ze flowers I expect to take another step probably going to be somewhere in that 1000 yard you know, if not a little bit better. I don’t think much higher than that. Mark Mark Andrews is Mark Andrews right. Who is that
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:02
what he’s talking about going to target one right
Luke Jones 27:05
yeah, although these days gonna get targeted a lot ze got targeted a lot last year I mean, those are one in one a right. Andrews has done it longer so yeah, trackers gonna catch
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:15
90 balls.
Luke Jones 27:18
Good. Good. I mean yeah, I I’m not going to
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:23
you know, catch 90 Balls they’re not playing seven different wide receivers and four different tight ends and they never started the ball to the running back I mean, not gonna throw the ball to Derrick Henry much. So you know, so if they are going to throw the ball 350 times for whatever whatever the number is, four and a quarter we’re gonna pick pick your number. You know, they’re going to they’re going to chuck the ball around a bunch then who gets the balls and who are catching to me Andrews is the missing ingredient you can talk about likely all you want it but then he’s getting a little older too and should be still very prime. But I love to see a bet I mean, him coming back and being a pro bowler would elevate Lamar, even more office MVP status, I think. I mean,
Luke Jones 28:10
I, I hear what you’re saying. But you know, Andrew just was having a great year and likely was there likely was arguably their best receiver down the stretch, you know, after Andrews got hurt, so I don’t think they had drop off there as much as I think now you’re looking. Okay, you’ve seen what Isaiah likely can do an extended extended opportunity to be the number one tight end. How can you incorporate more 12 personnel to maybe that becomes your number three target with having likely on the field more. And look, I mean, I’m not writing off Rashad Bateman, but he’s got to prove it. He’s got to go out and do it. And part of that is also I need to see better chemistry between him and Lamar Jackson on the field and that’s something that we saw there were plays left on the field last year with those two guys with you know, Bateman runs the wrong route Lamar throws an inaccurate ball they’re not on the same page, whatever it is, you know, whoever’s fault it is and both of them have fault in it. It just it didn’t work last year and out here to a point some of the talk about you know Bateman missing practice time and things of that nature. But it’s also like he also wasn’t a rookie, you know, it’s, he’s now in year four, it’s go time in terms of making that a thing. So look, Bateman, and likely I can’t sit here and say that I have this great confidence statistically that they’re going to have big seasons. But I think those two together morphing into whatever you need out of your number three receiving target because some of it is also who’s going to be on the field at the same time. You know that that’s a factor especially
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:44
we’re not talking about the Thailand Wallace’s or the you know, du Vernay and we’re not talking about any of that anymore. We’re talking we have real starters right? I mean, that have these are the imirt This This is the base likely being in and out. Um, By the way, Keaton Mitchell I saw him. Leonard asked me about him. I’m like, you know, they don’t let me in practice anymore. I only know what I see on the internet. But I saw him taking pictures and he had like a leg stocking on and was out there. November on him. Was that right? And guessing that maybe December thing, that’s
Luke Jones 30:15
that’s probably the best in the in the, in the range of plausible realistic outcomes, that’s probably about the best you can expect would be November. I think, if the Ravens can have a scenario, where, let’s say Kent Mitchell was back. I don’t know, week
Nestor J. Aparicio 30:35
12. Let’s say thanks for Thanksgiving. And
Luke Jones 30:39
you can and that’s Look, there’s also a concert he tore three NIC knee ligaments. So you know, this, there’s also not so much that he won’t make it back. But what’s it going to look like? What’s the speed? How do you miss the speed back,
Nestor J. Aparicio 30:53
right? I
Luke Jones 30:54
mean, we saw this even when Dobbins came back two years ago. And look, he was productive two years ago when he came back. But remember him sprinting out into the open field against the Steelers. And you could see when he tried to hit it to the highest gear, he was limping, you know, he didn’t have that highest gear. Now, he was still really good. And that’s not to say that Keaton Mitchell can’t contribute for them. But I think the best case scenario, that’s realistic, right? Yeah. assuming he’s not Adrian Peterson, coming back from an ACL and like, the way that Peterson did and was insane, I think would be that he gets back on the field somewhere around Thanksgiving. You give him three, four weeks to start ramping up, you know, limited carries. I mean, you’re still gonna have Derrick Henry, right. And you still have Justice Hill. So it’s not like Keith Mitchell is going to come in and carry it 15 times a game, but you know, knock some of that scar tissue off and all that. Where is there a scenario? Where come early January, keep Mitchell isn’t the guy who looks like last year, because I don’t know if we’re gonna see that. But if something close to that, boy, you want to talk? Say all you want about Derrick Henry, and what that means in January, if you can have Derrick Henry, and say a 90% version of Keaton Mitchell, even. Boy, that’s that’s a really enticing thunder and lightning kind of combination there that in addition to Oh, yeah, Lamar, Lamar.
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:21
He’s still the best running back and forth. And you said something that I would say flippantly, you said some 20 minutes ago, you’re like, it’s still their best play. I point that out every Saturday, or every Sunday, I should say, you know, like, you him running the ball is their best play, they could do that 60 times a game and play magnetic football, and figure out first downs and run the Navy offense and, and, and win games, which they did six years, they took a leak by storm doing that. But to your point, you don’t want to do it that way. But it’s it’s in your bag of tricks in which makes it even more astonishing that that bag of tricks never came out back in January against the chiefs, you know, yeah. Well,
Luke Jones 33:03
and I’m glad to bring it back to that. And again, I know people are tired of hearing about January, but it’s not. It’s all August, right? We’re not talking about the regular season yet. Once we get into actual games, we probably won’t talk about what happened.
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:16
Well, I have no problem taking a look at the raiders in week two. And the counters make three Sure,
Luke Jones 33:20
sure, sure. But part of the issue of what happened in January, yeah. I’m here the game plan. Todd Monken colmore runs John Harbaugh call for more runs here and all that I’m not dismissing that, go back and look, Lamar Jackson had opportunities to take off and run and he did it. So again, this is where I kind of said everyone kind of just collectively lost their heads. And it’s like they had this in their mind how they had to beat the chiefs. And it’s like, you didn’t have to do it that way. They’re on the strip sack play where Lamar took a really, really deep dropped and Lamar and Ronnie Stanley got beat, even though I think that was one of those plays where Lamar needs to climb the pocket better. And maybe that doesn’t happen. But it happened. Go look at that play on the 22. It’s like 2020 yards of open field where Lamar could have taken off and he would have been running for a while. So there was some of that that went on to but you know, to go back to the Keaton Mitchell factor. If they can get him back in late November, early December, get them to the point where you’re giving them three, four or five touches a game, something like that. Get him Let him get his feet back into it. Let him get his game clock back, knock some scar tissue, whatever, if you can get. Again, I don’t know if you’re gonna see a 100% version of this because I think back to like Jamal Lewis in 2002 was not the same Jamal Lewis that we saw in 2003. Right, who ran for 2000 yards. So there’s always that perception at least that an ACL return is always you’re always better that next year after you come back than you are in that year that you actually return. But if they can get a version of Keith Mitchell that still has some burst, and still has some of that lightning, Breakaway speed. Even if he doesn’t have the absolute highest gear, as we saw with JK Dobbins two years ago, then boy, that’s just another dynamic factor that plays into not just, and it’s not even about their running game, per se. I mean, it’s your offense. And we’ve talked about this, their offense is still everything is still gravitates to Lamar Jackson’s running ability, whether he takes off on that play or not, it is still all centered. And that’s why there is excitement about Derrick Henry having a big year and, and certainly being better than he was in Tennessee last year, because, you know, even with the questions of the O line, just having that dynamic presence at quarterback and understanding, a defense happened to play 1111 on 11 football, as we’ve talked about for years now with Lamar, but if you can add keep Mitchell into that picture to boy, I mean, you’re just talking about an offense and, you know, likely and Bateman complimenting Andrews and say flowers. I mean, when you just have that many individuals that can be a part of what you do. If you’re the defense, if you’re the defensive coordinator, how in the world do you account for all of that, and that’s where we go back to a word that has always been used. But I’ve heard it used a lot more in terms of describing the Ravens offense under Lamar Jackson, stressing the defense, putting the defense in conflict. And what that basically means is you have them doubting themselves in terms of who’s getting the ball. You know, when when it’s, you know, when you have bless it running back? Yeah, you can you and we saw this in 2021. Right when Latavius Murray and Devonta Freeman and the football corpse of lady on Bell, we’re running the football for the Ravens that year, because Gus and Dobbins, tore their knees up in the preseason. But, you know, when you have that many weapons as receivers as running backs, and then oh, yeah, you have the second best quarterback on the planet, or the third best quarterback on the planet, you know, right there behind Patrick mahomes. And you can rank everyone else how you want, then, I mean, that’s just, that’s heavy for a defense no matter how good they are, to try to account for that. So it’s all about just diversifying the portfolio right to use an investment term. And I think if you can add Keith Mitchell back to that mix for January, even if it’s a lesser version of him, but still an effective version of him, then, boy that that running game becomes that much more dangerous. And that makes the play action that much more difficult to account for and just makes this offense that much more difficult. But look, what I’m saying here is still not anything that dramatically different than what we’ve talked about in previous years. It still is going to come down to when you reach that moment, assuming you stay healthy and assuming you have a good year which I fully expect the ravens are going to do that health. I mean, that’s anyone’s dependent on that right. You’re one play away from having your season completely altered. Yeah, we talked we talked about this with Jordan Westbrook with the Orioles not quite the same deal, you know, in baseball is football. But you know, it’s the same same principle. As putting that aside, though, putting that assumption aside. It’s all about what this team can do when they get back on that stage. So, yeah, Derrick Henry, bring it on. I’m looking forward to watching Derrick Henry and Isaiah likely with Mark Andrews on the field, bring it on and Rashad Bateman a healthy year, bring it on, and hopefully keep Mitchell later in the year, bring it on, you do all those things. And you at least figure out some answers on your offensive line that it’s at least an average group, let’s say, then you should be well equipped to get back to that stage in January. And then it’s just as simple as gotta go out and get the job done. It really is that simple. And again, it for me, it’s not about needing something drastically to change. Fundamentally, it’s, you need your MVP to play like the MVP on that stage, you need your Pro Bowl players on each side of the ball to play like Pro Bowl players on that state stage. And you need your coaching staff to coach like a 13 and 14 on that stage. And they didn’t get that last January against Kansas City. And that’s why they went home. And that’s why the Chiefs won their third Super Bowl in four years. And
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:14
all that being said, we just did a half an hour on skill position, skill position, you just said something that I think’s flipping. If the offensive line is average, they’ll be fine and I’m thinking it’s got to be better than average. If they’re if your offensive line is average, the whole thing could come falling apart. In my mind, the average brings everybody down when Lamar is running for his life and there and we think Derrick Henry should run through any hole even when there isn’t one. So the offensive line needs to push people around a little bit man I mean I like when I go back to 2019 Lamar was special and all that stuff. I don’t even know who the hell was on the rest of the team other Mark Ingram. I just saw the offensive line graded everybody literally. But
Luke Jones 39:53
you also understand that the offensive line is better because of Lamar Jax. I mean, it’s these It’s a gift take relationship. And let me rephrase what but
Nestor J. Aparicio 40:03
a young Ronnie Stanley, a young Orlando brown and a Marshall yonder headed to the Hall of Fame. That was a whole different thing that was going on there week after week. It really was. It was
Luke Jones 40:14
but we also saw how that offensive line played when Joe Flacco was the quarterback the first half of the year, it wasn’t nearly as good. So your points taken? Let me let me let me use a different word for what I mean with the offensive line. If you don’t like average, their offensive line can’t be a problem. It can’t be a problem that it can’t be problematic in the way that it was for the Kansas City Chiefs against Tampa Bay in the Superbowl? Because the Chiefs what at that point, they lost four starters due to injury. The point was with that offensive line, it was well below average and Patrick mahomes is running for his life. So when I say average, I mean, I don’t think this offensive line needs to be the best in football. I don’t think it needs to be close to the best in football. I don’t think it’s going to be the best in football because of the amount of turnover that they have. It has to be competent and capable and disciplined. And rock solid with penalties, penalties, that means they’re broken assignments. According to pro football focus, or Yeah, I mean, clean. Sure. So so when I say average, I met more. So in terms of don’t be a liability, right. It doesn’t have to be the best in the league because Derrick Henry still ran for 1000 yards plus last year, behind the terrible Tennessee offensive line. Terrible go back and look at that group. They’re awful. And Lamar, even at times where their offensive line hasn’t been as good as still is a magician, right? So it’s not like they need something to be, you know, they need that group to be the 93 Dallas Cowboys. But it can’t be a problem where, you know, you’re jumping to snap count, and you’re holding and you don’t know your assignments, and you don’t pick up the Blitz properly and the mark gets whacked. And suddenly now he’s got a sore ankle that he’s playing through. But he’s not Lamar anymore. You can’t have any of those things happen. Right? So whether that means they’re the fifth best, the 10th best, the 12th best, you know, I think anywhere in that range. If they’re the 12 best offensive line in the league, and in terms of trying to grade them independently. I think that will be good enough for them to have a heck of an offense. But if they’re 22nd and they’re having to rotate guys because you don’t feel like you have an answer at right guard or you don’t have an answer at right tackle or you know, rose and garden looks okay at times and isn’t as good at times and for heating up if those things happen, or Ronnie Stanley’s hurt again, and you know, if all those things happen, then yeah, then then it’s going to be way more of an issue and then you’re starting to wonder what their ceiling is come January, you know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 42:44
I can be flippant here and say I can’t judge their offense. So I know the offensive line is until I see it until you to some degree because I’m not convinced it’s not leaky yet. I’m not giving say I’m convinced they have a senator. I’ve given say of hope and right tackle because they they they put assets into it, but they put assets into things in the draft that haven’t worked out, boy, the guard position and I will continue to look at Ronnie Stanley as a shadow of the old Ronnie. I mean, I like Ronnie Stanley a lot. I like Ronnie Stanley so much. And I remember when he rolled over and that game four years ago, I turned him away for two, they can’t win the Super Bowl without him. And now he’s not him anymore. And I’m wondering, okay, you know, how is this going to look over 17 games and actually 2021 games because we’re gonna, we’re just gonna give them two or three playoff games. Add that in. Now. I can’t tell you how good the team is going to be till I see you the offensive line is I really can’t, I couldn’t bet on this team. Like you just have them they’re gonna win 12 I’m like, I don’t know who their offensive line is. And that really is the most important thing. It really is. Because they’re there to protect the quarterback. And if they can’t protect their quarterback to your point. It always makes for a long season, no matter who it is. And
Luke Jones 43:52
right and I guess I’m going I’m going off of what we’ve seen in the past. Like, for example 2021 their offensive line was pretty lousy. I mean, it was I mean you had 100 Villanova playing left tackle he was terrible.
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:03
And by the way, I when I look at Lamar stats over the body, and instead of a lot of work, he’s got six little six or seven little lines, you know, you look across it’s a lot of resources were
Luke Jones 44:14
season a lot. Yeah,
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:16
sure. Yeah. And he didn’t have the running backs. I mean, Oh, Miss Mark Ingram, but at that point, I felt like guys were hurt. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Bateman wasn’t working out as a draft pick. Oh, that
Luke Jones 44:26
I guess. But I guess my point where I would push back and say look, I agree with you in terms of whether they’re gonna be a Super Bowl team or merely a playoff team. They were they were on their way to be even with all that they were on their way to be in in the playoffs until Lamar got hurt rolling out way, way to the right. And what if someone tackled him on his ankle and had a bone bruise? So my point is, I still think their floor assuming the more is upright, and obviously that that’s the case for any quarterback worth his salt in the National Football League. For me, their floor is still The wildcard team, right? And maybe that means that are 10 and seven, if their offensive line is terrible, or let me rephrase terrible, maybe not, maybe not that. But if it’s problematic, let’s say, let’s use that to use a better word. You know, maybe they Yeah, but if they’re off, and that’s why I was kind of kind of amused even hearing you talk the way you are about the offensive lineman, which I don’t disagree with you. But that’s why I said to me if their offensive line can be average, which means they’re not a bottom five or a bottom 10 offensive line, then, to me, that means that they’ll be in pretty good shape, then because I think it’s it’s a lot to expect that much turnover. And that many question marks to all be answered to the point where there are top five offensive line. So that’s where I kind of said, have an offensive line that can be steady, give you a high floor of play, it can be disciplined, it knows its assignments, even if it’s not the most physically gifted, or the most dominant offensive line. If you can get those elements, then to me, the presence of Derrick Henry and Lamar Jackson will take over from there because that those two basically serve as extra blockers. And what I mean by that is, the defense has to account for those guys in detail differently than your average running back and your average quarterback. So even even a D line going up against an offensive line. They’ve got to be more disciplined in their rush lanes, they’ve got to be more disciplined in how they play their assignment and where they’re aligning. Because they know that you know if it’s a mesh point handoff, or if it’s Lamar Jackson dropping back to pass that he can take off so you can’t just crash inside and the way you can win Tom Brady’s the quarterback, because you know, he’s not going anywhere. Joe Flacco is the quarterback because you know, he’s not going anywhere. So, so that’s where I guess my point is with the O line, it doesn’t have to be the number one or number two, or even for me, the number five most talented best line or best offensive line in the NFL, it just can’t be problematic. If that makes sense. If it can be steady, if it can be a really high floor kind of offensive line, where they just they do what they’re supposed to do most plays, then I think this offense will be a very high level offense and we’ll have every opportunity to go deep into January which is all that ultimately matters and some of that is also these young offensive linemen. I will also say week one, week two week four the O line is probably going to struggle a little bit more I think we should be preparing for that but as the year goes on if you see growth if you see a group that’s much better come week 17 And week
Nestor J. Aparicio 47:46
18 We’re seeing the same five guys let’s start with that
Luke Jones 47:48
well and and that’s part of it or it could be that Roger rose and garden Macquarie might start the year at right tackle and Rose and garden takes over and week six I mean we saw Orlando Brown was that way his rookie year he didn’t start the year right away at right tackle but by about I think it was week six week seven something like that he took over and was really good the rest of the way but yeah,
Nestor J. Aparicio 48:09
they’ve got to thank John guard for a year so yeah, yeah,
Luke Jones 48:12
I mean you never really know so so yeah, I hit but let me be clear as much as my expectations are high. I am working under an assumption there that they can at least get enough of an offensive line that’s not going to be problematic. And your points though your concerns there. I don’t disagree with that. And they’ve got to figure that out. I’d say to this early point in camp I feel pretty confident and again it’s still early this is not 100% ironclad set in stone. I think we’re gonna see Andrew Vorhees his left guard I’m still not sure about right guard and right tackle I think Rosen gardens the long term at least by week nine I think that’s the goal. You’d love it for week one but you know we’re gonna have to see and right guard you know, fall Elite has been playing there a lot practicing there a lot, you know, but is it him Ben Cleveland solid, I’m, I’m still not sure about that spot. And that’s a spot that you need to you need to make sure is situated we saw in 2020, after yonder retired, how that went. And then the Ravens went and spent money the following year on Kevin Zeitler. So that’s where you know, that’s a spot I’m really right guard of those three positions right guard is probably the one I’m most uneasy about at this point in time. But that said still plenty of questions still much to be answered with this offensive line between now and week one. And look, those questions are going to linger at least until we see this group play a few games that matter and see what it looks like at that point in time. So your your points you’re spot on. Even if I want to say that this team I feel 100% confident that they’re going to be a playoff team, but if they’re going to be a suit Pro Bowl caliber team Super Bowl contending team, then yeah, there are a lot of questions to answer on this offensive line and we just don’t know that yet because it’s August 1, right? It’s August 1 week of August. They got some time here but certainly want to see guys start to, you know, you want the cream to start rising to the top if you’re John Harbaugh, and offensive line coach show, Dallas Andrus, fake
Nestor J. Aparicio 50:21
football ahead for all next week real baseball all weekend long, Luke and I will be covering all things guardians Orioles this week, and certainly trading deadline over now and trying to figure out this Westberg injury, as well as everything that’s going on out in Owings Mills, Luke Jones is on the scene. Follow us out on social media for any breaking news, anything it’s happening, those who are inquiring about the tech service, send me an email. I’m gonna be writing about that that probably next week a little bit when I get some decision making made. But if you missed the tech service, we must send them to you. But we’re still here. You’re still here. I’m here. You’re here. We’re not going anywhere. For better or worse. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke we are WNS da and 1570, Towson Baltimore, our 26th anniversary on Saturday. I’m going to have to blow out the candles on 25 and get some new cake
