Luke Jones and Nestor discuss Orioles All Stars and snubs and greatness of Gunnar Henderson
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
years, orioles, gunnar, henderson, week, sign, player, gunners, craig kimbrel, manny machado, baseball, machado, catcher, talking, point, feel, yankees, play, shortstop, kimbrough
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are wn St. am 1570, Towson, Baltimore. Baltimore positive happy post Fourth of July happy homestand. To those you celebrating the Orioles this week, lots and lots of discussions about America about crabcakes on the programming this week as well had a lot of friends on Wednesday Brian fine was here this week had some old friends of at least we’re sitting back from Goodwill talking about our XL center in a conversation about light rail all sorts of things in addition to our extended an excellent coverage of Royals baseball on Friday we’ll be down just in time for the Yankees to get here will be a family’s all the brought to you by the Maryland lottery about the Gold Rush sevens doublers to give away headed lucky batch to thus far be be fun to give those away down to fade these Luke Jones will be joining us on Friday the Yankees are in town. Come on down watch the birds play. It’s sold out on Saturday. Plenty of pins stripers will be in I’m sure this weekend our friends at Liberty pure solutions keeping our water crystal clear and Jiffy Lube driving us smartly and wisely home with a proper oil and proper fluids proper everything going on Jiffy Lube. MultiCare, doing more than just oil changes these days. Luke Jones does the more than ravens coverage these days, although they’re taking a nap, we hope to keep them out of jurisprudence for another three weeks. And so you can convene. But Meantime, West Coast baseball, successful trip coming home against the lowly cubs and the suddenly lowly Yankees and all those pitching problems go away. But we found the new grievance over the weekend. The loyal fans have to have grievances. You know whether it’s we have one in 40 years or we don’t get enough love or no one loves us enough. And I loved it Billick used to always use this and he didn’t really believe it. They’re out to screw us they’re out to get us all of them are out to get us and Harbaugh lives his life more that way. But Billick used to say it you know 25 years ago but as much as we think the Orioles are getting, you know proper respect and love and they get talked about on major league baseball network. When the rubber meets the road about how many good players we have and how many good players they have. The All Star game feels like. Yeah, maybe there’ll be a little chip on their shoulder this week. And I have a feeling two of these guys will still wind up in Texas next week. Once half these guys bail out. Even guys that didn’t make it might be happy. They didn’t make it once you get to be a veteran player. But you know Santander Westberg Kimbrough Rodriguez, plenty of guys around the fringes who got screwed.
Luke Jones 02:35
Yeah, well, I don’t know if they were screwed. I think
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:39
maybe Omar Come on. They say I don’t love the team at all. I’ll say
Luke Jones 02:43
this just in a general sense. And every market in Major League Baseball has fans complaining right now, except for maybe the absolute worst of the worst teams. But the term snob gets thrown out way too much at this point in time. There are certainly guys who had arguments. And I will say what I find ironic is Kimbrough who, even as recently as a week, a week and a half ago, and I would put out on Twitter or x or what social whatever social media outlet you’re subscribing to and say he’s coming in the game. There was still fan responsive, saying, Oh, no, yeah, hold on. It bumped gonna be a bumpy ride all this. And yet, Craig Kimbrel ended up you know, and especially been over the last couple of weeks where guys like me, were pointing out that just about all of his saves had been two or three run saves and had done so great with one run leads and all that. Well, the last couple of weeks. He’s really been on a roll. And it’s really been since mid May that he righted himself and got himself back on track and has been excellent, where he probably has the best argument. I think of all the arguments and we’ll get to Jordan Westberg in a moment, because he’s the other one that I feel more compelled to feel for in terms of not getting the nod. But Craig Kimbrel for clay Holmes. I mean, if it were may 20, there was no question it was clay Holmes right, who I don’t think gave up a run until the third week of May, you know, hadn’t given up an earned run whereas Craig Kimbrel had temporarily lost the closer’s role with the Orioles. So, but since then, Craig Kimbrel has been outstanding. And clay Holmes has been an absolute mess and has really been not the only reason for the Yankees struggles, but certainly has blown some saves and really had his issues. So I found that interesting, but I just I just found some irony in the sense that even as recently as a couple of weeks ago, lots of Orioles fans had a ton of angst about Craig Kimbrel and yet, then two weeks later, they’re complaining Why isn’t he in the All Star game so but you brought up the point, I think with injury replacements, you know whether we’re talking about Kimbrough or anyone else, I mean we’ll see how it plays out. I would not at all be shocked to see a couple more Orioles. Get the nod depending on you know Who’s banged up, you know, who decides to bail out who gets hurt over the next week, all those different factors, but Kimbrough was the one. The other one to me, Jordan Westberg. I think what really, ultimately hurt Westberg one, we talked about this a lot. You know, we’ve talked about this a lot with the Pro Bowl over the years, if you’re not voted in as a starter by the fans, or you’re not deemed a starter in however the voting goes, that turn players tend to get a little more of a nod, a little more of a benefit of the doubt, they have a little more cachet. They have a little more name recognition. So I think Westberg had that working against him. And then the other factor is his versatility, which is so valuable for the Orioles that tends to hurt you when it comes to a All Star roster being filled out. You know, I think when you look at the third baseman in the American League, I think it’s tough to sit there. And if you’re viewing Jordan Westbrook solely as a third baseman and saying oh my gosh, it is this great travesty. However, knowing that he’s also played plenty a second base, and seeing someone like Marcus shimmy and get the nod who has been a great player for a long time or a really good player for a long time. But it’s not having his best season by any stretch of the imagination. And that’s probably the kindest way I could put it. If you’re going to talk about Westberg getting the nod over Marcus Semien. If you’re going to look at him as a second baseman, then yeah, I think Jordan Westbrook had a heck of an argument. So you know, I feel for him and I wanted to see Westberg make it just because he’s had such a good season. And I think you could really make an argument that he’s been the Orioles third best player, you know, and maybe fourth, you know, if we’re gonna throw burns into the discussion in terms of talking about position players, and pitchers, but yeah, for a large chunk of the first half, Gunnar Henderson has been the Oreos MVP from day one. But for a large chunk of the second half, and maybe only until maybe the last month or so, you would make a strong argument that Westbrook has been their second best position player and I think rutschman has probably overtaken him over the last month or so, for that distinction, based solely on 2024. But he’s been right there. And he’s been one of their three best position players all season long. And the jump that he’s made from last year, to this year, we’ve talked about it over and over and over. I mean, I think we’ve kind of described him as your favorite players favorite player. And as much as gunners, the MVP, and at least now a two time All Star catcher. I think Jordan Westbrook is very much I think it was I can’t remember if it was Kevin Brown or Jim Palmer on Sunday, Saturday or Sunday. I think they almost describe Westbrook is almost like their heartbeat, where he’s just so steady for them. And he’s always been good at third base, you know, is his defense there has improved to me markedly from last year. You know, we know he’s good at second base made a heck of a play. What was it Friday night in the in the final winning, you know, tough short hop chopper made a great play and throughout throughout the the hitter to get a big out there. And what ended the game, I guess, but I mean, he’s just he’s been so good. So of all there other could be maybe Westberg was the other guy. But you know, to me, Kimbrough and him had the strongest arguments. Sometimes there’s had a lot of homeruns don’t get me wrong, I think there’s an argument to be made. But I can’t sit here and say, with too much conviction that I thought he was a real snub. And, you know, I mean, that’s strapping a Grayson Rodriguez guy, you know, even going back to the second half of last year with just how well he pitched from the moment he was recalled from from Norfolk, but 11 wins, I get that and he’s been really, really good. But his couple bad starts lowered his era to a point where if you look at him among qualified starting pitchers, you know, it’s not as though he’s been a top five era guy in the American League. So, you know, I don’t have as much of a problem with that. I think. I think there was a case to be made, but I can’t sit here and say that that was, you know, injustice for him not to make it so, you know, I mean, I talked about this last week and I didn’t expect him to make it but you know, I love seeing Ryan O’Hearn make the final vote at th and obviously he came up short in that but it was nice to see him get recognition there so I mean, all these guys had a you know, the fact that they were even even in the conversation speaks to how well the Orioles have played collectively. And I’ve seen some people say well, why is it that the Phillies have seven the Dodgers have six the Padres have five all stars. The guardians have five you know, the Royals who have certainly fallen off from from where they were with their hotstart know the first couple months of the season. They even have four but I will also remind everyone that you know just viewing it strictly through the lens of how many all stars you have. I’ve talked about this point a lot with the Pro Bowl and Ravens fans being upset about certain guys not making the cut or not getting the nod or whatever but you You know, you kind of view it through the lens of you hypothetically could have the third best player in the league at all those positions. And that might not equate to an all star berth for those guys. But that still equates to a heck of a baseball team. So yeah, I would have liked to see the Orioles get a couple more do do I think it’s worth losing sleep over? No, but because to your point, I think there’s a decent chance when it’s all said and done that a couple couple more guys could sneak onto the roster, just knowing how much turnover there’s been in recent years with that, but just the fact that we’re having the fact that we’re doing a whole segment talking about the all star selections and guys that could make it when for how many years you’re talking about it through the through the lens of okay, who’s gonna be the Orioles loan representative. And we’ve come a long, long, long way from having those discussions. So nice to see the guys that got the recognition get it would have liked to have seen a couple more. But you know, at the end of the day, to your point, Craig Kimbrel getting some rest or some of these other guys getting some rest and getting that four day break where you can truly get away might serve the Oreos Well, in the big picture. Um,
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:12
got our Henderson and his greatness and where we are with I mean, this time last year talking about him being MVP candidate first place Yankees in town this week. Like if I’m writing a script for this, and I would have told you two years ago, coming out of the plague before the team had proven anything rutschman had just gotten here. This happens fast. And I would just say this as a baseball fan. And as a lifer baseball fan, you never feel like it’s going to come. It happened kind of fast with buck and the do cat arrow like it that 12 season that 12 1314 happened and it’s over. Just like the Royals happen then and it’s been over for them. And they’re trying to find their way back for these organizations, these windows, these small windows where the Cubs had it. I mean, the Cubs had it in tuck there in this week, right? Everything on the website will be cubs this week. And they’re here for the next three days. They’re awful. They’re the worst team in their own division right now. You mentioned Rizzo plane in New York and Schwarber. We saw him running around with the Phillies, like these players. I don’t know where Westberg rutschman and Henderson are going to be seven years from now. And I don’t know what there’s gonna be three parades here, one Oakley or none, or whether Mr. Rubenstein is going to be a part of this. And CAL will be on the float waving at a parade for the first time since 1983. Like I can dream all of that. But it’s a lot easier to dream that when you get to an all star break. And you say baseball thinks we might have the best player. He’s in the Home Run Derby and rutschman would have been the guy we would have been talking about two years ago as MVP candidate Mauer with power Johnny Bench. Everything Wieters wasn’t all of that stuff. The Henderson story and his shine, because he wasn’t a one one overall, right? He right, like all of that. But this this might be his All Star game this week. Right? I mean, it could be I mean,
Luke Jones 13:14
he’s been absolutely phenomenal. We’ve talked about this. And you know, it was pretty evident from the first couple of weeks of April that this guy was shaping up to be a very serious MVP candidate. And let’s face it, if Aaron judge didn’t exist, Gunnar Henderson would be running away with the MVP. I mean, that’s how dynamic he has been. When you look at the fact that he’s batting 293. He’s got an odd base percentage that’s right around 385. I mean, slugging 600, you know, he has an LPS that’s hovering right around 1000. It’s got 14 stolen bases. He has 27 home runs. I mean, there’s nothing about Gunnar Henderson’s game where you view it as a weakness, or are there certain things he could do better? I mean, I throw away a potential double play ball on Sunday. But this is a heck of a shortstop, you know, I mean, he’s, he’s, I think a year ago, there was a sentiment that he could be Corey Seager. And now I look at him as he’s Corey Seager was speed. I mean, Corey Seager is not the fleet is the foot whereas gunner could still end up stealing 30 bases probably won’t but it’ll steal 25 Let’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:23
say it’s crazy. He can run he I mean, he’s built like ripped in or a rod or right those guys like it’s amazing. He can run even Barry Larkin and I’m just thinking about, you know, guys that forget my cousin who was as big as me, I but the other part of him is I can’t help and this speaks to my age and to get off my lawn of my age, comparing and not to Ripken, not to even Aparicio or even Ballanger, whose name got brought up by Palmer hitting the home run in Oakland this weekend. But, but more like Machado, and more like Everything Machado brought from the minute his name alone, the macho Machado all that Mr. Miami, all of that. That do I want invest in this? Is this a leader? Is this my guy? You know all and I’ll hear all the Latin hothead stuff too from the old world, but just the general is, is he the guy, you’re going to build your franchise around? And these are the questions Rubinstein Elias, yo, Greg Bader they should all be asking this question on Henderson as to how to build around him. And I had a long conversation couple long conversations I haven’t had with you about Rubenstein, you and I will have a Rubinstein. I mean, again, they let you into the team. They don’t let me in. I got questions for Mr. Rubenstein and the Whistler, but in a general sense, all of the evaluation they’re making and everybody is under review, including me. You’re the only one not under review. And that’s okay. You’ve proven yourself the money and all the money we’re giving them and all the money they want for the new Masson and they’re gonna win the World Series or not all that money’s gonna go to garner Henderson if if we figure this out, right, like at the end of the day, he’s gonna get a half a billion dollars from this franchise. And you have to ask yourself, Is this the guy? So far so good, right. So far, so good. I mean, I’m not against it, keeping in mind that Mr. Rubinstein doesn’t have enough money. He to complete the sale at 1.8 billion, but that’s another story that nobody else is reporting but me. But then to sign him and for Mike allies to call Scott Boras to say, Scott, I know you never sign ahead, but this is going to be the one we’re going to make. It’s so incredible for you that you’re going to sign a deal because the expectation for Rubinstein when he goes into these rooms, and I don’t want to be disrespectful to people who don’t listen to the show, but morons baseball morons who just don’t know anything but just sign in. would appear. Let me sign him send him on it. We got. He’s not signing. And I think that is going to be you thought Lamar was tough. Wait, do you see this one? Right. And because this kid’s this good. He’s unsalable Because of his agent. We’ve got an owner stripping that sticking the dipstick as Jiffy Lube reference into the oil tank to say, well, how much money are we going to generate here? Greg Gaya and TJ, how many patches can we put on sleeves? Can we get naming rights for the stadium? Can we just buy the team outright and get rid of the Angelo’s people? Let’s start with that. But these are all the big questions and as I see Gunnar Anderson, have major league baseball, Fox Television, ESPN. blow up the balloon on his greatness. And his pick any of those guys in the Cubs, right? Schwarber Riza just go through the names of those guys. 70 or take Machado. Chris Davis, just throwing it out there because he was a superstar would have been Brady Anderson in 96. Right. So this is the week where we say we got great players we’re in first place we’re gonna beat the crap out of the Yankees. We’re gonna be in the All Star game. We’re gonna be all that. This is when the fan starts saying all right. Generational player. Maybe players, maybe both of them gender. And maybe Grayson Rodriguez is Jim Palmer too. And maybe Jordan Westbrook’s better than Richard our or Bobby Grich. You know, maybe he’s, I don’t even know what to compare him to me Scott rolling. I don’t know I’m making that up. But that’s not a bad comparison. Scott Rowland is not a Hall of Famer, by the way but we can have that discussion later on. Sure. I’m, I’m rambling. But this is Henderson’s time to get paid, get money, blow up the balloon. They’re not going to pay him. But I’ll tell you what, I have a different vibe on him. And I haven’t met the kid. And I met Machado twice in my life. I haven’t met the kid. But on the outside it feels like and you’re around and even last year when Aaron Fraser kind of gave me a dirty a dirty deal at second base. I’m like, do they like this kid? Is this kid bringing some because they didn’t like Machado. A lot of guys didn’t let me that you know, hot dogs all that young guys coming up. I can’t think that JJ Hardy looked at Machado and said dude, sit down, stop quick starting fights. You know, just all that stuff that went on. Henderson feels like he’s a cut above in this way. And this kid from Alabama that doesn’t talk much. And Richmond feels like he doesn’t want to say much to anybody about much their their relative they’re going to be under the radar guys.
Luke Jones 19:41
Yeah. I mean, one thing I’ll push back on a little bit. I think many I think Manny’s teammates liked him. But I think there was very much a sense of to borrow an expression from Manny Ramirez there was an element of Manny being Manny and at times you see you later It’s your show. aren’t sure sure not
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:00
easy Cal Ripken? I’m not trying to compare.
Luke Jones 20:05
Brooks. You know, this is what’s interesting, though, because if you if you and I had had this and we had this conversation back in May I think the more appropriate conversation is to compare him to Cal Ripken at this point, not Cal Ripken in 2001. Or even in 1991. But Cal Ripken in 1983. Think about it. Cal Ripken was Rookie of the Year as a 22 year old in 1982. Well, Gunnar Henderson won Rookie of the Year at age 22. And now in his age 23. Well, you know, turning 23 In late June. He’s an MVP candidate Cal Ripken MVP in 1983. So I think it’s difficult to even make the consumer
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:47
make it. You got to throw that out.
Luke Jones 20:54
How was MVP that year? It look I love Eddie Murray cow was MVP that year, shortstop. I mean, we got to look at the you got to look at the entire picture. Cow was MVP and I love Love, Love Love Eddie Murray. Eddie Murray. Absolutely was my guy but cow that was the right call. There have been other examples of situations like that where I would say that media got it wrong, but I think that was right point I’m trying to make though. And I don’t say this lightly. And you know me I’m not Mr. Hot take. I’m not Mr. recency caught in the prisoner of the moment caught up in that. But I think for the the fact that, you know, even comparing him to Manny Machado, who, as I pointed out, needs to do it for a few more years, but he’s very much on track to have a Hall of Fame career. At this point in time. He’s got to do it. Probably another four or five years at at least a fringe All Star kind of level. But that’s the kind of career Manny Machado has had, say what you want about him, right? I mean, attitude or, you know, getting in, you know, some some scuffles over the years, all that kind of stuff. He’s been a great, great player. But when I think of what Manny Machado was at age 22, and 23, which was a great player a phenom. Gunnar Henderson is better than what Manny Machado was at that point time now. Manny Machado was a more spectacular defensive player. But Manny Machado never had a year where he was flirting with 1000 OPVs you know, for the Orioles never had a year where he was going to hit 50 home runs like Gunnar Anderson has a shot to do never had a year where he was stealing a bunch of bases. I mean gunners gunners have more athletic shortstop in terms of just faster on the bait better base runner, the Manny Machado ever was even in his prime so I don’t say that lightly. But that’s what kind of talent we’re talking about here. And it is that amazing was 300 million
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:47
Davis was 150 million the old man sat down with Davis and made that deal, right, like giving that money. Totally that period of time. Right? Like we’re coming into that argument and this is a week where that’s going to be illuminated and I think the impossibility of signing him here and now for the baseball fan the low information I want to be I want I want to compare it to voters who don’t know what the hell they’re doing or talking about and me taking phone calls for 30 years in this space and trying to explain to people how this works well that’s enough money for him you know like all of that like I there’s no chance of Gunnar Henderson signing correct like on a Boris level that has to be stated before the fans lose their mind on Steve Martin here right? Well,
Luke Jones 23:35
you mean like now you mean I mean yeah, they can sign them when it when it gets closer to free agency. Look, I don’t want to say it’s impossible I think some of the Boris stuff. Let me rephrase that. I think a lot of the Boris stuff yes is true. But there have been some exceptions like like Jose L to a for example, signed an extension with it with the Astros you know, he never hit the market. That said, You’re gonna have to pay extraordinary money to do it. You know, you can do it this week. But you know, you’re not getting gunner on Oh, you’re gonna you’ll buy out two years of free agency and, you know, you’ll give them a nice little.
Nestor J. Aparicio 24:13
Do you believe he’s gonna be a great player when he’s 27? If you do you believe that? Yeah, no doubt about what you see is what you get. Then you better look, this is when the this is 32 years of me being on the radio, you better go you know, it only gets more expensive. I mean, Lamar, Bing, you know, point A, B and C that we took two years dancing with that. And in the end, he won. He bent over steep Ashati and, and all of them with his sign with all he got every nickel he had coming to him. He did and he held out as he deserved it. And you know what? And that’s going to be the case of Gunnar Henderson. He’s going to deserve it. Yeah,
Luke Jones 24:54
I mean, and that, you know, I don’t want to rehash that because you and I spent three years talking about Lamar as contract The Ravens didn’t lose that they paid market. I mean, what, you know, losing that would have been them giving him a fully guaranteed Deshaun Watson deal. Anyway, going back to Ghana, I think it is so difficult to try to project what any player is going to be even in six or seven years, let alone the kind of contracts that we’ve seen the Bryce Harper’s of the world sign. So Tane it’s, I mean, even Otani is complicated and but you know, he didn’t sign a 13 year deal. I mean, look at what the Phillies signed Bryce Harper to. I think it’s so extraordinarily difficult to try to project that out. I think in most cases. I think the Phillies when they signed that figure, probably the last three years of that deal, if not a little bit longer than that. You’re going to be paying Bryce Harper, you’re going to be paying the ghost to Bryce Harper more than what Bryce Harper is in his late 30s. And Bryce Harper is a great player, right, a great player. But I think as it pertains to, if you’re going to invest a 1112 year contract, whatever it is, that’s ultimately going to sign Gunnar Henderson whether it’s the Orioles are doing it, or Team X signing him when he becomes a free agent. He is on the short list of guys that I would feel outstanding about. Maybe not outstanding is the right term, it’s relative. Right? I would feel much more conviction and feel much more strongly that you’re going to get great value for that deal. Even if the last couple years of it. Yeah, he’s you’re going to be talking about someone that you’re, you’re paying for what they already did. But I think the fact that he is only 23 years old, I think the fact that he runs so well, I think the fact that he shows the range that he has at shortstop, I think the fact that we’ve already seen him play third base at a high level as well. So even if you want to talk about six years from now that his reign just diminished a little bit at shortstop, and you’ve got some hotshot prospects at that point in time that’s ready to play, you know, your next Joey Ortiz, let’s say that, you know that scenario, maybe Gunnar Anderson moves to third base, well, then he could play third base for the duration of the contract probably at a Gold Glove, at least above average level, the bat, the fact that he can draw walks you know, the fact that yeah, he strikes out, but he doesn’t strike out and like a Chris Davis level of striking out, you know, he’s got swing and miss every almost every one does in today’s game, we know that he checks every box that you would want, in terms of if you’re going to invest a 10 plus year contract and someone that I feel, put it this way, I’d much rather give him a 12 or 13 year contract today, then I would give Adley rutschman, a seven or eight year contract as a catcher. And I say that with no knock on Adley rutschman. It’s more just how to most catchers age forever. Yadi Molina, there are guys like Matt Wieters, who, you know, they get to seven, year seven year eight, you know, kind of rundown as a catcher, and then you’re kind of looking at, okay, if the bat still plays are you putting him in another position? So I just think gunner Henderson, look, anyone can get hurt, right? And even some of the most amazing talents on paper, most amazing talents early in their career don’t always age, to the point where they’re going to have a 20 years, all sorts of things. Look
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:29
at the Hamilton kid.
Luke Jones 28:30
I mean, there’s all kinds of things that can Well, I mean, Josh Hamilton, I mean, obviously, got drug problems and all that. So you know, even putting aside extreme examples like that, you just never know. I mean, there’s no such thing as a 100% safe investment. I mean, even people that invest money just for a living financial advisors, you know, they’ll set you up in lower risk investments, but to make money ultimately, you gotta make you’re gonna have to carry a little bit of risk. But I think the profile for Gunnar Henderson is just so safe in terms of the kind of player that you’re going to get and look at doesn’t mean Gunnar is going to win seven MVPs over the next 15 years. You know, I’m not anointing him as the great you know, the greatest player of the last 25 years let’s pump the brakes on any, any notions of that. But I mean, this kid is just so good already. And there’s just there’s nothing about it. That feels fluky. I mean, again, this wasn’t a one one this wasn’t a top five pick even like Colton cows or Heston Karstadt. I mean, this was a second round guy. I mean, if Gunnar Henderson didn’t exist, we’d be kind of looking at it. Adley rutschman versus Bobby Witt right and Bobby Witt looks like he’s going to be a generational maybe when it’s all said and done other than George Brett might be the greatest player in Kansas City Royals history. And you know, maybe maybe even becomes better than that. One day.
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:53
Gunnar Henderson might be the greatest player in oral history right? But
Luke Jones 29:58
that whole discussion Should you have taken rutschman or Bobby wit becomes a moot point when, with your next pick, you took Gunnar Henderson who’s an MVP candidate and looking like
Nestor J. Aparicio 30:08
John Ogden, I mean race go statute. John doesn’t have one.
Luke Jones 30:11
But I’m glad you brought that up because you just think about where the Orioles were at that point in time. And the fact that they had one one and Adley rutschman had been known in college baseball circles and MLB prospects circles for two years, that that that didn’t sneak up on anyone. But by the time the Orioles were already a 115 loss outfit in September of 2018. We didn’t know who the general manager is. But if you ask someone who paid it’s even semi paid attention to college baseball and the draft and minor leagues and all that. Most people would have told you at that point in time, they’re probably going to take the catcher from Oregon State, you know, with one one because that’s how well known that kid is already. So we knew that before Mike Elias was even hired that Adley rutschman was going to be one one. So you take him and that’s panned out and again, nope. Him and Bobby Witt Pepsi or Coke right? I mean, you know, Bobby Witt might end up becoming ultimately the better player the better career probably will have more longevity as a shortstop compared to a catcher. But when you draft Gunnar Henderson on the heels of Adley rutschman, then well, now the debate is more so gonna be Gunnar Henderson versus Bobby Witt for the next decade, right? I mean, that’s what it feels like at this point in time. So I mean, it really is amazing to considering how low the Oreos were at that point, how terrible how everything needed to be rebuilt. I mean, everything was just stripped down to the studs, right? I mean, they were at the foundation that the entire thing had been burnt down. And to come away with rutschman and Gunnar Henderson right off the bat, it really is like Jonathan Ogden, Ray Lewis. And we’ll see to your point ownership and business questions, mass and you know what, what attendance is going to look like? All these different things are going to be part of that discussion. And let me be clear, I’m not an owner, this guy’s going to be sure and I’m not I’m that doesn’t mean the Orioles get a free pass. Let’s be very clear. Even if all those things aren’t executed perfectly, there will be money to at least sign one of those guys, if they want to do it. There are many plenty of times where the question is whether the whether the discussion is should you do it. I’m telling you gunner Henderson’s about as safe as an example is you’re going to find that if you have the conviction, if and again, there’s always risk. But a 12 year contract, you know, the kind of deal that it’s probably gunners going to ultimately sign with someone. I feel so much better, so much better about giving that deal to him than just about any player in baseball, you know, it’s a very short list of guys that I would tell you right now that I feel good and confident
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:53
and feel. So what is the number right now? Oh,
Luke Jones 32:55
I mean, it’s so it’s, it’s impossible for me to even say at this point. I mean, you look at what Ohtani got no Tani’s a different example, obviously. And keep in mind, the Dodgers differed a ton of that money too. So you know, it’s not, not a straight comparison. But I mean, you’re talking about, you know, gunners gonna get, it’s gonna get north of half a billion dollars. I mean, that’s what it’s gonna be, because revenue is only going to grow from between now, and when he hits the market in five years. And assuming he stays on, and that doesn’t mean he’s gonna be the MVP or second and MVP every single year. But assuming he remains a perennial all star, which it looks every bit like he’s going to be that guy. I mean, he’s gonna be one of the highest paid players in baseball, he might be the highest paid player in baseball, when he signs that deal in five years, whoever it’s with Orioles or the Yankees or the Dodgers or whoever it is, you know, whatever team, but, I mean, he’s gonna be he’s gonna be a lucrative, lucrative, lucrative financial commitment. But and this is for him to turn on the sauce just in general. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, in the same way last last year, even though I don’t think it, you know, it didn’t improve Adly rushman stature as much as it just exposed him to the rest of the country at that point in time, right. I mean, I think anyone who paid attention knew that Adler was already an all star catcher last year, but he was on that stage. And he does what he does in the Home Run Derby. And, you know, for his flex, remember, he went from hitting left handed and then he flexes, it starts hitting right handed.
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:32
I mean, I’m not nearly into the homerun Derby as much as I was when I was 15 years old. But that was a cool moment when Adly did that. I mean, that was really cool. So gunners got gunner Henderson can go to New York with me right now and stand in the middle of the Major League Baseball shop that’s at the corner of Sixth Avenue there that have stood in they always do these fun little. I’m not sure anybody knows, especially with the moustache now. Like, I’m not sure that he is a commodity yet. I think that changes is next week puts his face on television for everybody. I think it’s just different I think it I think it’s different and to your point rutschman was in people and he’s good luck in and he’s got that he’s the catcher takes the mask off. He’s the leader like he was. He was more likely to be recognized in the middle of New York and a baseball shop and Gunnar Henderson and I think that Gunnar Henderson’s life changes this week in that way for anonymity, where he walks around Oakland on a road trip, and he’s just a guy to becoming in baseball places. Everybody’s gonna know who he is. Yeah, yeah, I
Luke Jones 35:35
think that’s fair, although I’ll also point out I mean, he won, he won the fan vote over Bobby Witt pretty handedly and Bobby wits been on the radar. Again, same thing, and to your point as far as the facial facial recognition, that’s kind of a baseball problem in general, right? Yeah. And baseball is a much more regional sport than the NFL or the NBA. Right it’s it’s very much you follow the team in your market and because they play every night you only see the rest of the teams around baseball so much but but yeah, I think this is going to this very much could be a coming out party for for Gunnar Anderson this week. I mean, puts on a good showing in the Home Run Derby hits a home run in the All Star game, you know, wins MVP at the All Star game, something along those lines. I mean, yeah, I mean, rutschman. You know, maybe not the most casual fans necessarily knew who he was a year ago at this time, but anyone who kind of sort of paid attention enough. They knew that they at least knew Hey, the Orioles have a really good catcher is their top prospect coming through the Orioles are going to be good. And a couple years there was that. But I mean for for Gunnar Hendrickson to do what he’s done. I mean, I even think back to think back to four years ago, pandemic year, Orioles had the alternate training site and buoy and, you know, at that point, you know, gunner had gotten his feet wet a little bit, but there was no minor league season that year, but it was that fall when they had their instructional league. And I remember vividly hearing at that point in time, that the two guys that had really turned some heads despite being pretty young, two guys, one was Jordan Westberg, who was a college player had been drafted. He impressed in turn heads that fall of 2020. But the other one who really popped up or they settle, oh my gosh, this guy has a chance to not just be a major league player, but as a chance to be a really, really good major league player was Gunnar Henderson. So his development, his rise from where he was. And I remember vividly two years ago, Mike Elias set called him the flagship player for their development, you know, Adley rutschman. There wasn’t a whole lot of developing the Orioles did Adley rutschman probably could have gone, I don’t know right to the majors, but he certainly could have been in the majors the year after he was drafted. If we’re calling a spade, a spade and the Orioles were ready to contend at that point, whatever. In a case of Gunnar Henderson, there was some development that needed to be done. You know, I saw recently a video got leaked out of what his high school swing looked like. You know that that that was making the rounds on social media. It was not the fluid swing that you see today. You know, it wasn’t the the the amazing swing that you see today. So the Orioles did a lot of work with him. Taking nothing away from Gunnar growth mindset wanted to be great, works hard. All the qualities that sigma Dell talked about his five tools and has skills. That’s right, absolutely, absolutely. But but they cultivated that they helped nurture that they develop that and what you have now is this guy’s a monster. I mean, he’s a monster, and the fact that he’s 23 years old, and that’s why I said he’s better than what Manny Machado was at that point, man, he was a heck of an amazing 23 year old. That’s why I said I don’t say this lightly and look to sit here and try to say that Gunnar Anderson is going to go to the Hall of Fame or play 20 years. No one has any clue. But comparing him to what Cal Ripken was as a 22 and 23 year old player. That’s what we’re talking about here. Not it’s not the same profile Exactly. Like I said, runs more has more raw power than cow. But I mean that that’s scary territory. I mean, Gunnar has been, you know, to this point, he’s been about a six and a half wind player in terms of wins above replacement. He’s got a chance to be a 10 or 11 Wind player. When it’s all said and done. There’s one guy in the history of the franchise that’s done that he did it twice. Cal Ripken, Jr. So that’s the kind of guy we’re talking about here. Long, long, long way to go before gunners being mentioned in the same conversation in terms of a career, but in terms of a comp for his age. It’s not it’s not far fetched. That’s how talented, how Uber talented he really is. Isn’t he he’s an absolute joy to watch and the rest of the country is going to get to see that this coming week down in Arlington.
Nestor J. Aparicio 40:06
Here’s Luke Jones. He is Baltimore Lukie will be at Camden Yards this week. Chicago Cubs are coming in. I hope they bring some pizza with them. This weekend the Yankees will be here. I will bring the crabcakes Luke and I will be down at fade Lee’s I’m wearing my my J W fatally. stablished 1887 We were established back in 1991 We’re going to be establishing some winners Gold Rush sevens doublers in the Maryland lottery we’ll have these on Friday between two and five probably going to be there a little early on Friday Yankees fans running around come on down are friends from Jiffy Lube as well as Liberty pure solutions putting us out on the road we have so many awesome things happening here. New websites up it’s been okay on mobile a little wonky on the on the desktop this week and we’re getting that organized as well but look me back to writing this week and a couple of weeks and we’ll football yeah the thoughts football for a minute. Have you looked you haven’t just you haven’t given it one second of thought this last two weeks but other than Mark schlereth Oh,
Luke Jones 41:02
I’ve thought of it because it happens quicker. I mean, their first first full squad workout is the day after I returned from vacation which I wasn’t necessarily expecting when I booked it back in in January. So it was the first one that’s right around the corner. July 21. So it’s a little bit earlier keep in mind they play the the season opening game, you know that Thursday, what September 5 I think it is off the top of my head. So you know it’s it’s right around the corner. But in the meantime, I think the Orioles are commanding everyone’s demanding everyone’s attention for the time being and that’s okay. You know we will
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:38
void right exactly right. Yeah, well,
Luke Jones 41:40
plenty of time to talk about what’s going on in the backfield and Owings Mills just a couple weeks away.
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:45
I’m gonna celebrate all star week here by having my first gold watermelon at the wise market. So I haven’t had any I haven’t had any watermelon at all but I need to go watermelon here this week. We got peach cake back. I mean, it’s summertime crab cakes are better never nice and fresh. We got to fake this on Friday. Come say hello to us. We’re gonna be talking all star game to be talking Yankees all week. And certainly me talking trading deadline and pitching can’t believe Luke and I’ve talked two hours Orioles baseball and we haven’t mentioned all that pressure on Mike Elias to help the bullpen in the rotation. We shall do that I am Nestor. He is Luke we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking Baltimore positive
