Our intrepid sports reporter Luke Jones spent Monday on the practice field of Owings Mills wondering where Lamar Jackson was and then watched the Orioles take another beating at Fenway. We thought September was supposed to be fun? Luke joined Nestor for a discussion about finding pitching and the youth of Jackson Holliday.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
year, jackson, holiday, connor, baseball, player, hit, game, pitching, great, runs, play, good, point, feels, orioles, santander, fenway park, night, day
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore. Positive it is. It’s quite a week. We got a lot of rock and roll on the brain here. I’m resting up. I’ve even freshly shaved for Eddie Vetter and the boys a Pearl Jam in Bruce Springsteen in you’ll hear from members of sticks on the radio this week. You’ll also hear from those Lofgren from the street. East Street Band, and you’re going to hear some baseball, and you’re going to hear a lot of football. JT, the bricks going to join us in advance of the Raiders coming to town this weekend. You know, I had them all set to, like, give him oysters, feed him crab cakes. I’m going to do all that with Luke Jones. Now we’re going to Friday. We’re going to be down at Cooper’s for the Fells Point oyster Festival. It’s all weekend long, lots of bands, lots of bands you’ve heard of, lots of great bands. I’ll be there Friday morning, kicking it off. We’re going to have Dave shining there as well as Chad wheason, little baseball, little football, little Olympics, no bigger Orio fan, the Chad weaseling. I I hope they win a game before Friday. The Maryland lottery is going to make it all happen. The Gold Rush, sevens, doubles. Have a handful of these left, and then it’s going to be all Raven scratch offs, all season, long as we get the Maryland crab cake to our back out on the 20th the fade these the 24th estate fair with Angela also Brooks the 27th we’re going to be a Costas. We’re also going to be celebrating my birthday on October the 11th. I think Luke might be covering. Well, there won’t be a baseball game that day for my birthday and your birthday. Post birthday, we’re going to celebrate at Pizza John’s in Essex. Where else am I going to take you? Lou Jones,
Luke Jones 01:29
that sounds good.
Nestor Aparicio 01:31
I’m there october 11. Write it down. See I’m breaking breaking news, almost like our wnst text that I’m I’m in the corner right now just waiting to see. What I what I really want to do is wake everybody up at 1057, make all their pockets go off and 98 rock and all that stuff. But I’m not going to do that just yet, because Bill Cole from coal roofing said, make the first one a really good one. So that’s what I’m going to do. He’s going to be joining us here this week as well. Luke, this um, we get together every day and we try to talk about this. And you know, as we’re here today, it’s Tuesday morning, I’ll be full K Fabe on this, um, well, as a lousy effort this baseball team on a night by night basis. Now, when I come up and I see these names I barely recognize, and I have to go Google and say, Who are these guys, I almost tweeted out I was too busy eating an oyster over at Riley’s oyster last night, having a good time, but I almost tweeted out like, Well, the reason they look like a different team is because they are.
Luke Jones 02:23
Yeah, I don’t think that’s unfair to say that. I think obviously we’ve focused on the struggles of certain individuals like Adley rutschman, for example, who was dropped a fifth in the order on Monday, and Cedric Mullins moves up to the second spot. And as I pointed out to you a couple days ago. I mean, you look at Cedric Mullins numbers, since late June, he’s been pretty good now, part of that is he’s become a platoon player, and we saw that play out even on Monday, where Austin Slater hits for him with the lefty in the game. So so his role has changed, but he’s performed at a higher level, and I have no problem with that. As I said to you the other day, Adley rutschman at this point. And look, he had a couple knocks on Monday. Great. You know, you hope he continues that we’ve seen him look like himself for a couple days, and then it just kind of goes away again. But, you know, they’ve got a lineup that is very incomplete right now and and what I mean by that is not just the injuries to Jordan, westburg and Ryan mount castle and go down the list of their depth guys, Urias and Mateo go down the list, but Heston kerstadt, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention him, but what it’s forced them to be is miscast in some ways. Right? I mean, Ryan O’Hearn is playing more than he did prior to the mount Castle injury, and hasn’t really performed consistently at the higher, higher level that we’ve seen him do, where it’s more of a straight platoon, and I guess it’s not a straight platoon because they’ve shared DH and first base responsibilities. But point is, role changes. Eloy Jimenez, we’ve seen him now start more against right handed pitching. That wasn’t really the ideal, that wasn’t the idea when Mike Elias acquired him. So you see that and you just go down the list, and that was my first reaction on Monday afternoon when the lineup is sent out. You just look at the lineup and it’s not very impressive, right? I’m not as impressive as it looked back in May, and part of that is because guys are struggling, but just the names, right? I mean, western star is a
Nestor Aparicio 04:30
different name than he was two years ago. Richmond’s a different name than it was two years ago, right? Santander, based on the kind of year he’s had, that looks a little different in the lineup in September than maybe even it did in April. To me,
Luke Jones 04:42
well, I mean, he got off to a slow start. I mean, I don’t know if
Nestor Aparicio 04:45
we’re used to seeing Hayes. Were you seeing mount castle? You see these names that just are unavailable, just like we’re used to seeing Grayson Rodriguez in the start. You know, we were used to seeing Bradish and they’re gone, they’re gone and they’re not coming back. Some of Marshall Grayson. Might become a Mac will say,
Luke Jones 05:01
right, right, so, but, but even with Monday’s game in the top of the first inning, it starts in encouraging fashion. Gunner leads off with the double, uh, Mullins lined out, but hit the ball hard. Santander with an RBI single. O’Hearn walks Adley rutschman singles. So you’ve got the bases loaded, one out, you’ve already put a run across the board and good at bats, right? It started well, and then Jimenez and Colton cows are strike out. You strand three, and you just feel like, okay, here we go again. And they left a ton of men on base. They didn’t do much of anything offensively, other than Santander hitting his 40th home run. He drove in all three Orioles runs. And then on the pitching side, I mean, capovich just wasn’t good enough. The bullpen was terrible behind him, so it adds up to a lopsided blowout loss. And you know, the only other thing really worth mentioning is Cedric Mullins making the outstanding catch in center field. But then kadepovich, in a matter of pitches, gives up three more runs after that, so you know, or what the two run Homers. So it frustrating night. I wish I could say it was a surprising night, but this is how it’s been going, you know, offensively especially, and then the pitching, you know, they, as I said to you, if you look at their pitching over the last month, it’s probably been better than some would have anticipated. And I’m not saying that, you know, the bar is not extremely high, but opens
Nestor Aparicio 06:27
been highly decent on a statistical basis over the last six weeks, right, right,
Luke Jones 06:31
right. But obviously, in a game like that, where you’re trailing, I mean, you’re not, you’re not eager to more runs, right? Like, Oh sure, well, Bert Smith gave up runs. I mean, you know, Cole rivin ends up giving up two home runs late. You know, just
Nestor Aparicio 06:46
began. We didn’t believe Cole Irvin was a major leaguer or was borderline. We certainly didn’t believe Bert Smith was a part of this. You know, we believe Kimbrel was going to the Hall of, you know, relief pitching, you know, that he was going to at least be effective, and a guy we could use. And, you know, as September turns to October and the leafs change. Here, I got something for you because, I mean, after 10 three game, you’re not inspired, by the way, nice job by John Harbaugh to answer your questions on Monday too. I appreciate that. By the way, you you want to give anything on Lamar not be I mean, do you think Lamar is hurt, or do you not?
Luke Jones 07:16
I don’t, whatever it is. I don’t think is overly serious. I mean, the one, the one, the one tell that that you could actually take away, because this is what
Nestor Aparicio 07:24
the job they’re watching the whites and John’s eyes, no, no, no, that wasn’t the tell. I’m talking the ultimate live is you’re in and I’m out. That’s the lie,
Luke Jones 07:33
the the ultimate thing, and this is what the job has become more and more, not specifically to the ravens, but just sports media in general, because of athletes on social media, but the Ravens put out something on Twitter about it being team photo day, and Lamar was in in the video.
Nestor Aparicio 07:51
He was goofing, yeah, I saw, yeah. I mean, so, so, whatever. And look,
Luke Jones 07:55
I’m not shocked if he’s a little sore, right? I
Nestor Aparicio 07:58
mean, I’ll just say we gave him the day off. He ran the ball 15 times. He’s got to play Sundays
Luke Jones 08:04
because he’ll just tighten up after they lose a football game. And because, for some reason, Lamar
Nestor Aparicio 08:09
is fine. He just gave the day off. That’s fine. So Lamar is not fine. Then, dude.
08:15
I mean, I don’t know. I guess it’s part of
Nestor Aparicio 08:17
the game. I’m not willing to play with Jad Steele or these people anymore that you spend the whole day to go out there and they sit there and they look at you like they they smile, F you? That was an old Daniel Snyder reference that I really shoddy a smile after me many times like I don’t, I don’t get it. I’m a fan, and I’m tuning in at three o’clock. Maybe they just need clicks. Is that what you need? Michelle, clicks like I what it what is that? What is that he’s the biggest star in the sport? It’s a Monday. He’s not out there. If it’s not a big deal, you say it’s not a big deal. Now, if he’s not out there, and you play koi with me, I feel like he might be. I feel like he might it might have been, so maybe, and
Luke Jones 08:57
we’ll find out, starting on Wednesday, but yeah, I it does come across as silly to me if, if he is totally fine, if it is just a matter of him being a little sore, and say, look, it’s Monday, you’re fine. You know you’re going to be in meetings, you’ll be out there Wednesday, even if we give you Wednesday, you’ll be out there Thursday and Friday. It’s fine. Then why not just say that the Las Vegas Raiders are not altering their prep to say, oh my gosh, we better start preparing for Josh Johnson. So when I hear people say, well, they they have not nothing to gain by doing that. Well, yeah, they actually do, because you have a frustrated fan base who is disappointed being on one and now they’re going to fret and look, I’m not saying people should worry about Lamar Jackson at this point. I’m not terribly concerned about it at this point. Now, if he’s not out there Wednesday, then, yeah, then I start to wonder. And then if he’s not out there Thursday, I really start to wonder. But for now, this early in the week, I’m going to choose to chill, because we saw the video where he’s goofing around, and John, I had
Nestor Aparicio 09:55
to say, is Lamar is fine. That’s all I had to say, right? And instead, he’s going to try. To mind F Marvin out in Vegas, that maybe Lamar is not. Marvin slept last night. Marvin’s fine. You know, Marvin? No,
Luke Jones 10:09
I’ll disagree with that. Marvin didn’t sleep. But it’s not because he thinks Lamar Jackson might not play. It’s right because Lamar Jackson is going to play, right? So,
Nestor Aparicio 10:21
game plan together this week. So I just it’s silly. It’s John. It’s John being John. And when people ask me about John, I say, that’s the real John. That’s the real John. Stand there with his 100 million dollars and smile at you and wave at you, pretend he’s never seen you and pretend he’s dumb. That was his dad’s gig and his brother’s gig. I playing dumb that his brother’s great at that. And I’m like everybody gathered. The fans are tuned in. Treat treat your customers with a little more respect all the way around. But that really begins with paranoia and Chad Steele, I’ve been writing about that. I want to talk baseball with you. So this is, this is where, well, we got all week to do that, and and Pearl Jam’s coming to town, bro, I’ve already seen Bruce. I’m seeing sticks. Nothing’s going to put me in a bad mood this week, nothing, not even if the orals get swept at Fenway Park So Connor Norby and Jackson holiday. I want to ask you this, because I always think about our ride in Sarasota, when I did hot yoga that night and it rained and you got rained out, and I picked you, and I remember we had a really great conversation that next we went to watch March Madness. We looked talking baseball, and clearly the team 101 games last year, clearly we were four days away from opening day, and thought they could be good. We were worried about Bradish. I’m trying to think of the issues then, you know, the issues in April 1 were a lot different than the issues now, yeah, and, well, no, question about it, but at the end of it, if we’re going to do a requiem on this and they take a face or as Barry bloom predicted, this week, by the way, Barry bloom came on. He said, I want the Yankees to finish second. They need to play all week. They can’t take four days off. So there’s an 80 year old guy who’s watched baseball his whole life, and with this crazy taking days off, he’s like, no, no, no, you guys win the division. You know, I don’t. We don’t want to play well. We don’t want to sit around. So nonetheless, um, kind of Norby, I’m watching what he’s doing in my and Listen, this isn’t about Ortiz in Milwaukee, or even about deals. I mean, I saw Rick Dempsey the other day. Go back and revisit the Rick Dempsey tippy Martinez deal for you, too, from the 70s. But in this particular case, for this year, for trying to win the World Series this year, which is the goal. It’s been the goal the whole time. Was the goal in the 80s, six game lead in the division. The whole deal, the notion that Connor Norby may have been a better second base option this year than Jackson holiday given the age. And they all and like, I don’t give lock and forward to it, but I used to know Jason. I don’t know him anymore, ever since he told me to go F myself on a text years ago about John Angelos. And now he’s got the K Fabe, he’s got the Stephen A Smith character that he plays out on Twitter. Um, which I can’t I don’t think Jason’s lost his mind. I hope he has, and I love you, but, um, but the notion that they overrate their own prospects, and that this was something back in the 90s, when I was a beat reporter, when I was a real media member, where I would hang out with the SID thrips and the Frank Rens and the people that evaluated these players, and they would come to media members. Mark masky at the post, Dave shining, who’s going to join me on Friday? Who’s the beat writer, Ken Rosenthal, all those guys pick any of the Boswell and say all this Luis Matos, this Luis Matos. She’s going to be a great player. And you know, the whole deal was to try to package him on July 31 for David Wells, or whatever they were going to do, right? So they’re always puff puff, puff, puff, puff puff. But it’s different when baseball America puffs these guys, and when the industry puffs these guys, and when the industry puts on You’re the son of Matt holiday, you can be a big leaguer at 1817, better than Robin Yang. You know you’re gonna be. You’re the chosen one. You know you’re Johnny Bravo. And then the kid comes up. He looks like a little leaguer. Um, he’s hitting one something, something, something, something something, and they give him a couple innings off on Monday night at Fenway Park. I just think like, we have shined up all of these prospects, and we’ve been so bad for so long, and the fans want it so bad, and the fans want every, every top 10 draft pick to go to the Hall of Fame. And they think like, we want every top 10 Raven draft pick to be John Ogden or Ed Reed or he wasn’t a top 10. But you know what I’m saying? Right? That that one, one thing, I remember back when there was no expectation on Mark Smith, there was some expectation on Jeffrey Hammons, but I mean on some players back in the era that just went away. You know, you didn’t hear of them again, or they got drafted as an outfielder, became a pitcher, became a pitcher, became an outfield like Adam Lowen. I mean, just guys careers that went on, but for winning this year and evaluating their own talent as to where it is, where it might be, where Mullins and Hayes and Santander and mount castle and a. Hearn, we’re on their journey. Those are the older guys, right? And then there’s the babies, all the babies from gunner and Adley down, and gunner and Adley were on the team. They were fine, westburg. They sort of brought him up middle last year. And, you know, maybe he makes it, maybe he does next thing. You know, he’s in the All Star game, so he’s a is, but they’re not all going to be is his. I mean, I remember when there was Coggins and bumbury and Coggins didn’t really make it. He was my dad’s favorite, and he might have been the best player that year. Al bumbury might be over Robbie’s telling you that 73 so I think about young players, and I’m bringing up something was 10 years before you were born. But this is my baseball pedigree to say all of these years every Ken Gerhardt, I mean the 89 Orioles, Worthington Gerhardt, all, none of those guys really made it. They made it. They made it for a minute and a half and they went away. And I don’t know about cows, or I don’t know about
Luke Jones 15:46
elsewhere, is going to be Rookie of the Year, man,
Nestor Aparicio 15:50
I got it. I got it. Okay. I
Luke Jones 15:52
mean, I’m just he’s a good player. I’m not saying he’s a perfect player. He’s a good player. I thought we expect them
Nestor Aparicio 15:59
all to be perfect players. I think that’s it. And I think that’s it. And I think we expected Jackson holler to be perfect at 19, and they went dealing away. And I look at Norby, and I think they might have better. Had a better in Second. Second base might have been better if they didn’t make that deal to hold on to some level of depth, because they didn’t know westburg was going down all of that. But they’re not ifs and buts and candies and nuts. I’m just saying there. This isn’t their best foot in September for where they were in April. And I’ll leave it to you, and you can take the floor at this point, but I am a little concerned of the rushing of players in the middle of a pennant race. And I don’t think Jackson holidays going to the Hall of Fame, ask anybody, but I don’t know that he’s going to hit more than a buck 11 in the playoffs next month, and that I just, I’m not seeing that growth from him that maybe we saw from a well, I mean, Henderson was 2020 or 21 so I don’t know. I’m maybe next year’s Jackson’s year.
Luke Jones 16:56
I mean, okay, so you’re saying you would have rather kept Connor Norby. I’m just, I’m trying to think
Nestor Aparicio 17:02
he was in line to be in the big leagues before Jackson holiday. And I think that that’s bearing itself out over 90 days that this year, this team, and we’re talking about Cole urban pitching and Bert Smith pitching, and, you know, like, are the best second baseman we had available in the organization. They gave away at the trading deadline because they got antsy and felt like they didn’t need him, and they’re gonna need somebody to play second base this month. And I just don’t think Jackson. I’ve not seen anything about Jackson holiday that says, like, um, but this was a great idea to rush him to the mid you know, not to mention starting a service clock, which where they’re gonna have to pay him when he turns out to be Joe Morgan, which I think he will be. But I just think they’re trying to win games now, and they’re scuffling, and I feel like they’re bringing all these quad A guy. I mean, there’s just a lot of quad A going on right now, bro. I mean, come on, seriously. There’s a lot of guys they rather have not played with that were not the first or second or third options to be doing what they’re doing at any given point, coming in the game, in the seventh inning, in the bullpen, or even in the starting lineup last night batting nice,
Luke Jones 18:05
because they’ve got a multitude of injuries. I mean, I don’t know. Look, Connor norby’s Off to a great start with the Marlins. He’s playing for the freaking Marlins, though. Is he doing what he’s doing with them? Can you tell me he’s doing with the Orioles right now, in the midst of a pennant race where there’s way more scrutiny, way more attention, way more, you know, way more urgency to that. I have no idea. My issue with trading Connor Norby is that they got Trevor Rogers, who’s at trip away, right? There’s an opportunity cost there that I have a way bigger issue with than trading Conor Norby. And look, I mean, your point about bringing up prospects at the I mean, Jackson holiday is a consensus number one prospect in baseball. This isn’t that.
Nestor Aparicio 18:46
Didn’t mean that he needed to come up in June, though, that I guess that was my point. In the old days when Angelos was pitching pennies, there would have been a longer meeting of Mike to bring him up. But
Luke Jones 18:56
this isn’t Jeff Fiorentino coming up from single a, like he he was at AAA and putting up numbers at AAA. I mean, clearly, in hindsight, he wasn’t ready back in April, right? But at the same time, he had put up numbers at the end of 2023 A, triple A to say maybe he is, and he had a good spring training to say maybe he is. And then they found out he wasn’t, so he went back, and they didn’t bring them back until July 31 you know, they didn’t bring them back in July. They brought them back in August.
Nestor Aparicio 19:25
I mean, you know, let’s look at it. Not even trying to be argumentative. I’m just trying to say, what is best nine right now? And what would best nine? I mean, my
Luke Jones 19:32
point is, to me, Connor, what Connor Norby is doing with the Marlins compared to what Jackson holidays doing at a in a pennant race is apples to oranges, and again, we’re still dealing with small sample sizes for both players. I would disagree that I haven’t seen anything from Jackson holiday. Jackson holiday had went on a tear as soon as he came back up. Now, I also keep in mind he’s got that two for whatever it was from April that that has sunk his overall. Batting average.
Nestor Aparicio 20:00
I bet he splits two, 210, 215, great. What is it has? It’s up 200 it might be, I don’t know.
Luke Jones 20:09
I don’t have it in front of me. You can look it up if you want. I’m trying not to mess up my internet connection at the moment. As you know, that little inside baseball there. But yeah, I mean, he’s been up and down. He’s been up and down. He’s 20, and part of this is, I’m sorry
Nestor Aparicio 20:24
about winning a World Series with that. That’s all on
Luke Jones 20:28
but Nestor Aparicio, so Okay, Connor Norby, fine. But what about the other three spots in the lineup that have been
Nestor Aparicio 20:41
in me and Jackson holiday has three home runs in five games in the Al DS. It becomes, you know, he certainly could, but I’m looking at it now and saying, I don’t like the lineup. To your point, I’m looking at it saying I know why they’re getting beat to some degree, including bad at bats and, you know, swing through and, you know, all home run and you not working cat, like all of the things that go into this, but they don’t have as good of a team as they had. And I don’t, I accept that. You accept that we’re baseball wizards, right, like, but I don’t know that everybody else is going to accept that when it doesn’t happen for them, because I think blown up.
Luke Jones 21:23
I think most people are getting to the point where they kind of, I mean, look, they’ve been mediocre for two and a half months now. They’ve been a 500 team for two and a half months now, and this is a lot less fun. I
Nestor Aparicio 21:32
want to point that out.
Luke Jones 21:35
It’s funny. You said that because I texted with a couple of my friends during the game on Monday night, and I was just saying, Man, remember when watching the Orioles is really fun. And look,
Nestor Aparicio 21:45
let’s also five more of these before.
Luke Jones 21:47
Let’s also be measured. Let’s be measured about this. It’s even where they are right now over the last two months, sure as heck, still beats where they were five years ago, oh, or where they were for the better part of the last 30 years,
Nestor Aparicio 22:01
no prosperity. That’s I know you’re not, you know I but I do. I’m just trying to figure out how they’re winning the World Series of what they have right now. And you’re saying to me, they’re not going to have to, because somebody’s going to come back. They’re going to be better than this three weeks from now, or at least put a better team on the field
Luke Jones 22:16
they need to be. Or, yeah, it will be a very, very quick, very abrupt, very brief appearance in the Al postseason. I mean, they’re going to be in it, right? I mean, they’re what with their nine up, or with 18 to go, or whatever it is, in terms of what that last wild card spot would be. So mathematically, they’d have to completely crash and burn. And some that that one of those teams that’s, you know, on the outside looking in right now, would have to go nuts so they’re going to be in. But there’s a question of, what’s it going to look like at that point in time? And, you know, Danny cool, I’m starting a rehab assignment this week. Jacob Webb’s continuing, and should be close to being ready to return. What does that mean for Craig Kimbrell? I mean, again, we’re at the point now where the money isn’t a factor anymore, because you’re only talking about a couple weeks worth of salary, right, even at what he’s being paid. I don’t think that’s remotely a consideration based on how they operated at the trade deadline. So I think for the longest time, for the last month or so, the idea was to try to get him to a place where he was able to get himself back in order, back in May, for example, and was really good for the next seven weeks, or whatever it was. But we’re at the point now where, I mean, how many outings is he going to have to string together, where he looks so good there that you have any level of trust of even thinking about wanting to use him in the postseason. So that’s where I look at this and say, But that said,
Nestor Aparicio 23:47
I mean, they brought him into a game they were already going to lose, and they lost it.
Luke Jones 23:50
No, no, no, not that. But I mean, Bert Smith isn’t pitching well. I mean, Cole Irvin gave up two, right? So, I mean, it’s not like they don’t have pieces in the bullpen right now, where you would say, Oh yeah, I’ll trade that guy out for Danny cool. I’m coming back. Oh yeah, I’ll trade that guy out for Jacob Webb coming back. So, or you could say, can’t be any worse than that guy, but, but, but, to bring it back to what you were talking about, you know, with Jackson holiday specifically. I mean, look, I mean, he’s been up and down. He’s had some stretches where he’s looked really good. Jackson, of all their concerns, and I’m not implying that you were saying that he was your biggest concern, either, to be clear, but of all their concerns, he’s him playing is so far down on the list right now for me, I do think his defense at second base has gotten better. It still needs to continue to get better. I think if there was one really big miscue as it pertains to Jackson holiday beyond what ended up happening in April. And again, guys like me were ready to say, Hey, bring the kid north and see how it looks. And he wasn’t ready. And no one really knew that, so that I can’t completely crush them for that, because there is unknown that jump from triple A to the majors is arguably bigger than ever. But. Because of the shortage of pitching and any AAA pitching worth its salt isn’t in triple A very long anymore. So So you have that, but I think if there’s something that I would call them out and take them to task for a little bit, as it pertains to Jackson holiday, it’d probably be on the defensive side in saying, from about June on last year, or certainly by July, it was evident that gunner Henderson was becoming their primary shortstop one, because he he showed he could handle it. Now I know he’s had more errors this year, and certainly that’s something you know that needs to be cleaned up, no question about that, but in a big picture sense, he had shown that he could play that position, and Jorge Mateo had hit himself out of the starting lineup, right? So from that point on, they should have identified Jackson holiday, who was on the, you know, had the rocket attached to his back in terms of his ascension through the miners. They should have said this kid needs to be playing second base every day. And they didn’t really do that. So he missed a lot of reps last year at second base that I think would have made him better. Now, I do think he’s showing growth there, but it’s still not where it needs to be and where you you’d want it to be, but that’s part of the process of a young player. So see, I thought holiday would
Nestor Aparicio 26:12
wind up playing third, and Westburn wind up playing second, but that’s not going to happen, right? No, no. I think I that’s what I would have told you a year and a half ago. That’s what I would say, okay,
Luke Jones 26:21
okay. And I’m not saying, I would I’m not saying I would have said you were wrong on that. I would have wondered what’s funny to me, and we’ve kind of it’s kind of been lost in the conversation, because he hasn’t been out there. But Westbrook, for me last year, I
Nestor Aparicio 26:35
thought he looked better at second base, and at third base, it was okay, but not, not great last year, I thought it was the opposite this year, where I thought Westbrook played much better at third base, and at second base, Dick wasn’t bad, but I thought that position was more average, whereas I thought he was slightly, you know, at least slightly above average at third base this year. But you and I played a lot enough baseball as kids that when you move from the left to the right or back and forth, it’s a huge deal when you’re a kid where angles and where the pitcher is and and then you do it all day professionally, and you move. It’s a big deal. But like in the history of the game, I mean, I don’t need to tell you how many Bobby gritches Were going to go be shortstops and turned in the second baseman and vice versa, and all over the place. I it is, it is interesting about how an organization would place players in that way. Machado was a guy Ripken, I mean, they were all, I mean, Alex Rodriguez. Was he too big to play short? There was all that too big to play shortstop. My name’s Aparicio. So shortstops are always under six feet tall, right? So that went on forever. But where you place these guys, it really is organizationally, because in any other organization they don’t, they could all be playing a different position, for sure. This is everybody getting their head hit here, all at the same place at the same time. They’re all 20 young, and they’re on this team that we thought was a rocket ship to all the arms fell off. You know, sure,
Luke Jones 27:52
sure. And look, even with their offense having struggled over the last month to the degree it has, if they’re pitching, we’re in a better place. We we wouldn’t be talking about the offense nearly as much, I think. And look, I’ve beaten up on the offense here recently because it’s been that bad. I’ve defended the offense. When people say the offense has been bad since June, which just statistically, there’s not enough to support that. There just isn’t again, you have to look around, it
Nestor Aparicio 28:19
feels like it’s been bad since June. It’s been bad since right? Why? Right? It’s been, yeah, in August, it
Luke Jones 28:25
was not good. I mean, it was bottom third of the league, kind of bad. In August, even in July, it wasn’t as bad as maybe it felt, just because they didn’t have a good July. But again, we also have to remind ourselves, even the best offenses aren’t going to score seven runs every night, it’s baseball, right? So you need to have that mix. And collectively, since June, when when the pitcher arms really fell off, that’s when it really started to mount in terms of just the inconsistency, right? And just this team being two steps forward, two steps back, right? They just recently won three in a row for the first time since right around the all star break, and then a week, less than a week later, they lose three in a row for the first time since late July. So I mean, it just, it’s what we’re seeing, and it feels pretty, feels pretty dire now. I mean, dire might not be the right word it, but it definitely feels not so encouraging right now. But as we’ve said, they’re, you know, they’re a week or two away from a good spell, and a couple guys coming off the IL from feeling better about it. I’m still not dismissing their chances, because, again, tell me what team in the Al that you love, because I’ll tell you to wait 10 days, and probably you’ll see that they’re not playing at that that same level, because that’s just what we’re seeing. I mean, there are no 100 win teams in the Al, so someone’s going to have to come out of it. I’m not saying that the Orioles would be my strongest confidence level right now, because of where the pitching is, because of the injuries that they’ve had, but, you know, they’re, it’s still September 10. They don’t start the postseason for you know. Uh, three. We got three weeks, right, roughly. So let’s see what it looks like in terms of how they’re performing, then where they are health wise, where Jackson holiday is, where, you know, and again, we do that whole thing. I mean, he’s hit, I and I just pulled it up. He’s hit slightly over 200 he has it for some power. But, yeah, he’s been up and down. But in an ideal world where guys were healthy, he’s their number nine hitter. I mean, he’s still their number nine hitter sometimes. But problem is the way that the state of their current lineup, you’ve been asking them to hit sixth or seventh. Sometimes, it feels like Machado
Nestor Aparicio 30:37
was more prepared in 14 or 12, whatever you’re 12, like whatever year that was then he is at this point to be productive at this level and to be a plus player, not a minus player. You know, who you’re waiting on. That’s all and, and that’s, I mean, a minus player, like, I think he’s gonna hit 200 that’s a freaking minus. That’s not a guy I need on my team at 19. You know, I mean, like, that’s just not and that, but, but
Luke Jones 31:02
But what are you doing then at triple like this is part of my point, though. Nestor, What? What? What purpose does him being a triple A then serve at some point. You gotta see learning to swim, right, right? I got you and and look, he did. He made adjustments in May, June and most of July. So, you know, it’s a tough jump, it is. And I’m not saying that to be dismissed that that it’s great that he’s hitting 200 but it’s a tough jump. And again, I’ll say counter Norby doing what he’s doing with the Marlins. Awesome. Good for counter Norby. I like him. You know, I still have some long term questions about what kind of player he’s going to be at the major league level, but he’s performed at the same time. He’s performing with no pressure in terms of his team trying to win. Look, there’s
Nestor Aparicio 31:45
no question. Connor Norby is rich. Dower and Jackson holiday is Robbie Alomar, right? Like, so like, well, that’s the perception of Sure, perception of it at this point. And I would say my perception of it right now is I’d rather have the guy that get hit 250 or 260 right now than if I’m trying to win the World Series right now. And I that was just my point and and I think we’ll look at this in plenty of time, you and I’ll be talking about this for years, but we
Luke Jones 32:17
also have to remember that move was made before Jordan Westberg had his hand broken
Nestor Aparicio 32:22
so well you go from deep depth to who’s playing sex? Sure, yeah, that’s what we go to. But
Luke Jones 32:28
I would also say, if they had traded Connor Norby for a starting pitcher who was pitching well enough to be in their rotation right now, even if he didn’t have two years of club control like Trevor Rogers, had they got a dean Kramer, if you were saying, if they had gotten another bullpen arm, which I, I think, in hindsight, I would have taken Connor Norby and Kyle Stowers and tried to get go get another impact reliever, rather than what they ended up getting, which Dominguez has been good. Gregory Soto not so good again, there’s always an opportunity cost. It wasn’t so much, don’t trade him. It was, could you have done, made a different deal? And
Nestor Aparicio 33:02
I’m sure they could have, right? I think the feeling was they didn’t need him and and you and I
Luke Jones 33:08
spent long term, they don’t need them, right? But, and they didn’t need Ortiz either when and they would, they were in better position still when Ramon Arias was picking up the slack. Then you lose westburg and arias, who had been their best, and Mateo, right? Well, but I’m talking offensively, you know? But Mateo would have been in the mix.
Nestor Aparicio 33:28
Sure he’s talking middle infield gloves. That sure give a guy a day off play. Yeah, exactly.
Luke Jones 33:32
So again, at some point time, it’s kind of like talking about the Raven secondary back in 2021 or 2015 right? Where? Okay, I get it. They should add more depth right off the bat. And I agree with that. But at the same time, once you lose Jimmy Smith and LaDarius Webb and, you know, go down the I’m just throwing names out there at some point in time, it’s like, Yeah, that guy that’s out there that you don’t recognize his name, chances are the Ravens didn’t want to play him either. But there’s a salary cap, and you only have so many guys that you can call up from the practice squad that are going to have any level of competence. So look, I get it and, you know, you bring it up. That’s not an unfair thing to bring up. But at the same time, Jordan westburg, literally, what, two days after the trade deadline, has his has hand fractured, and then Ramona Reus, who was so good for him, gets hurt. And then, yeah, you’re talking about Emmanuel Rivera, and guys, yeah, you’re falling down the mountain, as they say, yes. I
Nestor Aparicio 34:29
mean, guys you don’t even recognize. So, I mean, it’s, you know, you’re gonna play more baseball at Fenway Park this week. Luke’s gonna be monitoring it. Luke’s gonna get some rest. Luke’s gonna be at knowing smells to junk and cross his eyes. And I’ll tell you on Wednesday, come on back out. Y’all, you know, get some popcorn like we’re not watching the game. So raiders in town this weekend. Orioles out of town. Eddie veteran town, Pearl Jam, Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band. Sticks is in town. Lots of stuff out there. Mark Viviano was very gracious in a lot of time. Last week with versig, so you’re gonna hear a bunch of stuff on the radio this week. Oh, it’s gonna be great. He’s Luke. I’m Nestor, Baltimore. We never stopped talking Baltimore positive.
