As Lamar Jackson floats through another season as a potential MV3 for the Baltimore Ravens, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the quarterback play around the rest of the NFL and teams with Super Bowl hopes – and the unsavory options otherwise.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Maryland crab cake tour, Ravens Bengals week, Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Bengals offense, Ravens defense, AFC North, NFC East, Washington Commanders, Detroit Lions, Jalen Hurts, Brock Purdy, Anthony Richardson, Joe Flacco, Super Bowl contenders
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Welcome home. We are W N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore, positive, positively, taking the Maryland crab cake tour back out on the road. We had the Raven scratch offs, the ever popular as John Martin explained last week, to get in on the maybe winning a trip to New York, you start spreading the news. We will be spreading the giveaways beginning at State Fair as well as Coopers north, as we rev up the Maryland crab cake tour here, in honor of all things Turkey and eggnog and mincemeat pie, as well as peppermint sticks and all of that cocoa and all that a ho ho ho of next month holiday shows and Cocos on the fourth, we’re going to be Gertrude in the fifth, we’re going to be a fade these. On the 12th, we’re going to be a casus on the 18th of December. All of it brought to you by Jiffy Lube, multi care as well our oyster tours out on the road. We’re about a dozen days into this thing. Had a lot of oysters, a lot of different ways. All of it brought to you by friends, a curio wellness and foreign daughter, as well as liberty, pure solutions, one 800 clean water. That’s the way to do it, to take care of your well water as well as any of your plumbing needs. They’re good folks. Doug and his friends, their first introduced to me by Matt Stover, by the way, all right, it is a trading deadline week. It is a short football week. It is a Ravens Bengals week. Luke and I have talked about Joe burrow and the defense and the pass rush and Zach or and Derrick Henry and Lamar Jackson and scoring 41.1 thing we haven’t done a whole lot of is spent a whole lot of time around the rest of the league, especially in a week Luke when Jameis Winston fell on his face, Cincinnati one again, right? And Pittsburgh took the week off in our division. But then you watch what else is going on around the league, and I know we’re not pleased with the Ravens consistency at six and three, it’s hard to be consistent in the league. I mean, only a handful of teams are are better. And you know, are they better? I would ask. I would ask myself right now, are are the Detroit Lions really better than the Ravens? I’d love to find out?
Luke Jones 02:00
Yeah, I mean, you’d love to find out, because that means that they’d be playing in the Super Bowl against each other, and we saw how that went last year, but that was last year. So look, I’ve we’ve talked so much about the offense, right? And Cincinnati is a great example of this. Bengals scored 41 points on Sunday and their win over the Raiders, they scored 38 points against the Ravens back in week five, but go look at the rest of their schedule. They scored 10 points against the Patriots. In week one, they managed just 17 points against the Giants. A couple weeks ago, they had 21 against the Browns two weeks ago, Philadelphia held them to 17 points. So even a team that has a quarterback in Joe burrow, who’s playing at such a high level, I mean, he’s if the if the Bengals had a better record than four and five, then he’d be getting a little more love in the MVP conversation, not saying he should be the MVP or anything like that, but, you know, perception is a big part of that, but that that offense, with all their talent, has been up and down. That’s why, again, it’s so impressive to see what the Ravens have done. But you look around the league, and there are very few teams that show up on either side of the ball as consistently is what we’re seeing from the Ravens right now, with the bills do against everybody but us, right? Yeah, right. I mean, there’s another perfect example. I mean, it’s it’s tough, it’s tough. And as much as we’re singing the Ravens praises, I can’t help but think, as we’re getting ready to to begin this segment, that you look at the Bengals right now, and they’re four and five. If they make the kick in overtime, they’d be five and four if the Ravens had lost that game. And understanding everything else can change when, when, you know, Butterfly Effect, however you want to try to think about it, the Ravens would be five and four, and they’d be tied for, right now went for, you know, second place in the AFC north. So it’s just a reminder of, yes, it is a week to week league. And yes, game, some of these games not Sunday for the Ravens against the Broncos, of course, but so many of these games come down to a couple plays one way or the other. And I think of your Cincinnati, that’s where you’re feeling kind of sick right now because you’re four and five, and you’re going into Baltimore on a short week, and it’s a Thursday night game you need to win. If they do win, then you look at these teams and you say, hey, Bengals are right on the Ravens heels at that point, one game out, so but, but just looking around the way
Nestor Aparicio 04:42
with the Steelers over the hill for the ravens, right? 10 days off bad beat at home, I love it’s a bad beat if they lose to the bad I don’t know. I don’t I think Thursday night football is such a slop anyway, and there won’t be a whole lot of defense being played in this game in general, right? There’s going to be more about like, who gets to tackle who and when the. Ball goes up in the air. Who catches it? But the Ravens need to survive Thursday, and then really get ready for the Steelers game, because this is where you got to make hay and try to win a division.
Luke Jones 05:10
Sure, no question about it. I mean, I think we all look at the Ravens from a just a talent level, you know, just looking at especially in the offensive side. Now defense, that’s a different story. We’ve talked a lot about. They do lot about. I
Nestor Aparicio 05:23
disagree with that, because they spent a lot of money on defense. There’s a lot of talent over there right at one point we’re talking about, but I’m just talking about how they played, Fair enough. Fair enough.
Luke Jones 05:32
They haven’t played like a championship caliber D, but they have capable really, at any point, yeah. But they have, they haven’t really players, they sure. But my point is just looking at it in terms of the optics, of how it’s looked on the field, this ravens offense looks like a championship caliber team. Overwhelmingly, I saw Aaron shots, and I know we’ll talk about the rest of the league. Aaron shots did his DVOA and looked at the Ravens offense through nine games, third best offensive DBA DVOA he’s ever tracked, behind the oh seven patriots and the 2018 chiefs. So that’s what’s that’s the kind of territory we’re talking about here. But look, it’s week to week. The Bengals, at times they’ve looked good, and at times, you think, hey, they’re ready to make a run and then they stop their toe or their offense doesn’t look as good. Their defense, you know, has had a couple decent performances here and there, but largely isn’t good enough. So that’s where you look at this game and say, This is a huge team. I mean, obviously the Bengals desperately need it, you know, falling to four and six with seven games to go. I mean, you’re looking at having to win out to just, you know, keep yourself in position to still have a shot at a wild card the ravens, to your point, want to stay right on the heels of the Steelers and make sure that, you know, they’re, they’re prepared to go up to Pittsburgh in a couple of weeks. So, big game there. But again, looking at the rest of the league, it’s tough week to week. That’s why, what the Ravens have done, even with you say, okay, they have three losses they started, oh, and two, we still remember that. But just their their ability to do what they do offensively every week is pretty rare territory. And again, even a team like Cincinnati, for as much as we sing, you know, the praises of the talent that they have on that side of the ball, they’ve even had some clunkers so but scored 41 Joe burrow, five touchdowns. Trey Hendrickson, a monster game on the defensive side. Jamar Chase, they did that without T Higgins. You know T Higgins, his health this week is going to be a big storyline. He worked a little bit at the end of last week in Cincinnati, so I don’t know if that’s a thought that he could be ready to go Thursday night or not, but it’s a big game, but you look around the rest of the league, and I’ll still gladly take the Ravens problems over what most of this league is dealing with on a week by week basis. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 08:02
I think there’s a thought that the AFC is a lot stronger than the NFC, just in a general sense, and how Brock Purdy was making his way and how good, you know, Matt Stafford really was, and all of that, this commanders thing and the lions thing right now, the two better teams in the NFC, and we’re long from thinking that the Cowboys are bad and the Eagles have shown their weaknesses. And, you know, I guess I’m more of a believer in the Vikings and watching Joe Flacco the other then, I was still a joy to watch him, mate. I’m googling old Baltimore cult stuff now I’m getting on a Baltimore Colts kick, even though it’s never coming back, and it’s been 40 years. But just looking at how these teams stack up on the NFC side, it is wild to see the Washington commanders at the top of standings, and also from my perspective, right being. And this speaks to anytime I can mention Phil Jackman’s name here, or or even my buddy, Ed frankovic, the old hockey days, the good old hockey game. And we’ll have Leonard Raskin. I’ll talk in some hockey here. Howard chair and I did some hockey two weeks ago from mama’s on the half shell, honoring Jeff amder, old skip Jack’s fan. But I would go to the caps games, and Luke the capital center was the one place that as a young man, I’m talking in the 80s and 90s, when we didn’t have football, and they did. And then even after that, going to a CAPS game down in the district at the new phone booth as a new it’s 25 years old, but in the modern era, where I would be in DC at the Warner theater for show at Wolf Trap or something, um, anywhere in DC, just doing something that’s games. I didn’t go to a lot of those, but I would go to see Springsteen or Billy Joel at nats park, or whatever. Um, dude, the amount of Burgundy and gold just went to, like, zero, like they’re almost not there. Like, the amount of Terp stuff I see around here, which is. Not much, just in a general sense, as to where the brand used to be, where it was. And now, the next time I go to DC for something, whatever that might be, whatever concert, whatever thing to feel like, there might be some presence in the coming years. And I don’t think this kid’s RG three, and I certainly don’t want to wish anything on him other than this other super stardom that might be occurring there in the very, very early part of it. But dude, they’re seven and two, and haven’t been like this since ripping a little before your time. But you were, you’re very young man at that point. It was my first Super Bowl, the Thurman Thomas helmet, 1992 32, years ago. So commanders, you have any thoughts on the commanders at all? Are you up in Pennsylvania doing all those election ads? And they don’t even come to you, because it’s all Steelers and eagles
Luke Jones 11:01
there. I mean, having a quarterback changes everything. It just does. And right now, look at the playoff standings right now, and let’s use the AFC real quick, and then we’ll get to the NFC. But Kansas City quarterback, yes, we know they can win the Super Bowl. They’ve won multiple Super Bowls in recent years. Buffalo, Josh Allen, check Pittsburgh is the number three seed. I think the Steelers are good. Do I think they’re a Super Bowl contender? No, because I don’t believe in Russell. Well, they’re
Nestor Aparicio 11:29
only going to be if they beat the Ravens twice. Right? Correct, correct. And
Luke Jones 11:32
I’m just talking right now, right? I’m just talking right now. But Houston, CJ Stroud, I like CJ Stroud has it looked the same as last year, and now digs is gone for the year, and you know their offensive lines not playing very well and, and you know the rest of those teams, sure, right? But, but you still feel better about him than the rest of the AFC South. But again, quarterback, and we saw that last year with him as a rookie, maybe not to the Jaden Daniels degree, but still very impressive. Ravens, of course, with Lamar a chargers, you know, I like Justin Herbert, do I think he has enough around him for them to really be a serious Super Bowl contender. I mean, I like the defense. I don’t know Denver Bo Nicks is a, you know, shows some nice things as a rookie, no one is buying them as a Super Bowl contender, especially after Sunday. Oh, dude, if they’re the
Nestor Aparicio 12:22
team that the Ravens draw it, you know, and you’ll feel happy about that. You take, you
Luke Jones 12:27
take that right, exactly. But then, but then you look at all the teams that are on the outside looking in Indianapolis. Look Joe Flacco, once upon a time. No, not now. Sorry, I’m gonna disagree with you on that if you push back, jets, Aaron Rodgers does
Nestor Aparicio 12:43
look good now, helmet, though you got he does looks good now
Luke Jones 12:47
he does. He didn’t look very good against the bike. I
Nestor Aparicio 12:49
realized that, yeah, yeah, but Bert Jones look very good now, right?
Luke Jones 12:54
Jets, with Aaron Rodgers. I mean, Aaron Rodgers, for once, we’re reminding ourselves what Tom Brady did at 40 over the age of 40 is still the overwhelming exception, not the norm. Jets, no Tennessee, no Miami. I’d like to, but they’ve buried themselves. They’re two and six. You know, he played well on Sunday, though, I’ll give him credit. Cleveland, you know, just laugh at that. Jacksonville. Trevor Lawrence, I mean, my that’s still kind of
Nestor Aparicio 13:21
well, Lawrence Richardson, you know, some of these,
Luke Jones 13:25
they pay Trevor Lawrence. They paid Trevor Lawrence, right? I mean, that at least some of these loans.
Nestor Aparicio 13:30
I mean, yeah, hey, you know Dak Prescott, bro, right, you know. But
Luke Jones 13:35
that’s the thing. You kind of go down the list, and if you’ve got a quarterback that you emphatically say, Yes, you’ve got a shot. And now Washington is in that category. Now, Jaden Daniels, I think at some point, is still going to run into some growing pains, and maybe it happens in the playoffs for him, you know. I mean, who knows, but it’s changed everything for them. And even though I had to laugh a little bit at, you know, some of the national reports saying how players want to go to Washington. It’s, it’s kind of like, all right, can we, like, chill a little bit on this? I’m
Nestor Aparicio 14:04
just wondering what I’m going to see when I get down there, this awakening of their brand, to be excited about it. How many jerseys and like, whether that W on the helm, it’s actually going to catch on? You know, like, I, I wonder about all because it’s been such an ashtray, like forever that to think they could ever get up and walk again. I don’t know. It’s probably like a Yankee fan thinking the Orioles could eliminate them at some point. But you know, like we have to change our thinking, I guess is where I am, and I’m getting my arms around when I go down to MGM National Harbor, and I see people, and I did two weeks ago, I went so sting. I saw people wearing some stuff, and I’m like, well, that’s a thing. Look. Isn’t that cute? You have your old the thing that we can’t even say the word, you get to wear all that now, because that’s the way you are. It’s kind of weird, I don’t know, but I think it’s real, and I think it’s here to stay, and that’s. The part that I’m trying to measure dude then, well, it was Kelly, when Burro came along, or even when Marvin made Cincinnati good. You’re like, you’re Cincinnati, you can’t really be any good. You know what? I mean, you’re not allowed to be good. It’s like, Cleveland ever got a player like this and figured it out?
Luke Jones 15:13
Well, they thought they were getting that. Deshaun Watson, you know, they got what they deserved with that. But yeah, well, and the other part, look, I said the quarterback. And obviously the quarterback changes everything. If they didn’t draft Jaden Daniels and and they, you know, took one of the other guy. And look, Caleb Williams has shown some really good signs, uh, but it’s been more up and down for him. And, you know, obviously Chicago is okay, but they’re certainly not doing what Washington’s doing, but new ownership, and I’m not, I’m not going to sit here and say Joshua Harris going to be the best owner in the NFL, but you can’t be worse than Daniel Snyder, right? So
Nestor Aparicio 15:50
you know, when you talk message I’m giving to Mr. Rubenstein, by the way, that is my ultimate message. You cannot be worse than Peter Angelo. Is impossible,
Luke Jones 15:59
right? We talked about that last February, when all this went down. So, so, so it really it’s TPD in terms of To what lengths does it go? And you know, being being great in the regular season, as as we’ve seen here in Baltimore in the Lamar Jackson era, being great in the regular season doesn’t always equate to championships right away. But there’s, there’s only one Super Bowl winner every year. And when you have someone like Patrick mahomes, all these quarterbacks, Lamar, Josh Allen, Joe burrow, go down the list, they’ve all found out that Brock Purdy and the 40 Niners a couple times now, Philadelphia with Jalen Hurts. When there’s someone like that, you’re chasing that guy, Peyton Manning, ask him about how many championships he thought he would have won if Tom Brady didn’t exist, right? He’d probably be a, you know, we’d look at him differently than we already look at him, at him as a Hall of Famer. So, but when you have someone doing what Jaden Daniels has done, and I mean a franchise that had just been pathetic for most of my, you know, from the time I was about eight years old on him, you
Nestor Aparicio 17:07
didn’t even consider him, you know what? I mean, yeah, it’s like, Indiana be good at college football, like you just don’t even considered it.
Luke Jones 17:14
And Detroit’s doing the same thing now, even though we don’t view, you know, Jared Goff isn’t this young, hot shot quarterback, but he’s playing really good football, and they’ve got a really good roster. It’s a shame they lost Aiden Hutchinson, and we’ll see if Zaria Smith or whoever. They don’t make
Nestor Aparicio 17:28
their way in the Super Bowl. They just need to get to one them and Cleveland, ditto. But that’s
Luke Jones 17:33
there. But they’re kind of in that category, just like Washington. I mean Detroit Lions. I mean, since Barry Sanders retired abruptly, and I get it. Megatron was a Hall of Fame wide receiver and amazing, but like, they were never any good. You know, they’re good. For them was going 10 and six and losing in the wild card round. You know that that’s been their highest standard for as long as you could think, until in their case, yeah, quarterback, but head coach, Dan Campbell, talk about someone who’s changed the culture and and I’ll give Dan Quinn some some credit for what he’s done with Washington, you know. And again, quarterback changes things. But you look at these teams, this is fun, I mean. And I don’t say this in this in the Baltimore, Washington sense, no, it’s not fun in that way, because we know how we feel about DC teams, and specifically that team and what
Nestor Aparicio 18:24
the Giants and the Cowboys thinking sort of delicious, yeah, but, but it’s just for me, it’s just
Luke Jones 18:29
fun, in a general sense, it’s fun having some teams in the mix that you don’t expect to be in the mix. And Detroit, you know, got as far as they got last January. And you know, Washington is the second seed right now as well.
Nestor Aparicio 18:45
I don’t think Kirk Cousins is great, but he’s great for Atlanta that
Luke Jones 18:48
they’re better good enough. Yeah, yeah. I mean, do I think, do I think Kirk Cousins is leading a team to a Super Bowl? No, but the Falcons are way better with him than Desmond Ritter is their quarterback. I mean, that’s stating the obvious. So, you know, Minnesota, even though that that’s the air, has kind of been let out of that the last couple of weeks, a little bit, you know. And obviously they’ve had some tough injuries, but, you know, that’s been a great story. And they’re six and two, so I mean, that, that it, we spent so much time in the preseason, talking about the A, F, C, north. And, you know, even, even at that at the time, not knowing what the Browns were going to be. I don’t know if anyone was picking the Browns to be awful, either,
Nestor Aparicio 19:30
but all of these teams have two wins. Now, all the worst teams in the league have two wins at the turn. I don’t know how many are going to get to four, or three or four, or whatever, but there is no oh and seven. You know, nobody’s god awful, even if they they lose all the way out and go two and 15 any of these teams. I mean, Jameis Winston beat the Ravens last week. So how bad are the browns? You know? Yeah,
Luke Jones 19:52
well, they’re bad, but somehow, right? That’s the Ravens pass defense for you. That’s why it needs to get better. But. Yeah, look at the NFC North right now, though. I mean, the worst team is Chicago, and they’re four and four. I mean, they’re, they’re a lousy defense of a Hail Mary away from being five and three. And they think they have a quarterback for the first time, right? And you know, Caleb Williams, he’s not Jaden Daniels right now, but he certainly has upside and has shown some good things. And, you know, needs to get better, of course, but, but, yeah, look at that division. I mean, that’s the division that I think some people thought the A, F, C North was going to be this year. And then obviously, Deshaun Watson was so awful, and the brown stink, even if they can, yes, beat the Ravens on any given Sunday.
Nestor Aparicio 20:34
Your point in 12 and 11 weeks when this is all over with, we got a dozen teams looking for a quarterback right now, if they season stopped, what they have isn’t going to work. Oh, I mean, like, like, there’s
Luke Jones 20:48
more than literally, really, it’s more than a dozen. But there are teams that are still trying to talk themselves into the guy they have right now. You know that’s what you tend to find a little bit more and, I mean, you know the Anthony Richardson thing. And look, putting aside our affinity for Joe Flacco, I mean, I just don’t like, what are you trying to accomplish? You know what I mean. And look, Anthony Richardson, pulling himself out of the game and being tired like that was a bad look like that. Like, dude, you need to, at least don’t broadcast that for everyone. If that’s truly what happened, say, say that you, you know, you had a cramp and or something like that, but, you know, but you look at a situation like that, it’s like, what, what’s in you gonna get out of that? You know, is, is Joe Flacco maybe good enough to help them get the seven seed? I mean, Joe’s gonna be 40 in January, like you’re you’re in that’s the epitome of no man’s land right there. And you’re in the meantime, you’re going to have your quarterback who may not be good enough. And I fully acknowledge that, but I don’t know philosophically teams that are like that. I just like what? Where are you going, philosophically?
Nestor Aparicio 21:57
How do you 18 months ago, decide this is your guy over Lamar Jackson,
Luke Jones 22:02
and he hasn’t played that much even like he got and again, it hasn’t looked good. I get it if you look at it from a metric standpoint and analytics and the raw numbers and everything, well,
Nestor Aparicio 22:12
they clearly don’t like the kid anymore. I mean, clearly they don’t think he’s the leader. They don’t think the teammates don’t like him, apparently, from what I’m gathering,
Luke Jones 22:20
well, then you need a new general manager. I mean, as much as as much as that guy’s been praised in Indy, and I know like they were happy to move on from the previous regime with Gregson and, you know, Chuck Pagano and all that, and I know they’ve obviously changed head coaches multiple times since then, but I mean, to your point, and I’ll push back on the whole notion not all 32 teams could have had Lamar Jackson last off season. It wasn’t practically, practical speaking in terms of draft pick, cap space, all the different things that were going to have to fall into line. Indianapolis, however, was one of the few teams that was positioned to actually do that. Now, again, we can debate whether the Ravens would have ever said, Oh, well, we’re going to let Lamar go and we’re going to draft Anthony Richardson, right? But they were a team that at least could pursue that they did not. They didn’t even attempt it. And then, to your point, less than two calendar years later, Joe Flacco. You benched him for Joe Flacco, right? I mean, that’s that’s a severe misalignment of what you were evaluating and where you are now in reality. So again, though, like you look at that team, it’s like, what’s the best case scenario for you? Okay? Joe Flacco leads you to a wild card. You probably get bounced, because, again, I love Joe, but he’s not that guy that can do that in January anymore.
Nestor Aparicio 23:50
He also had better football players in Cleveland, yeah, he did,
Luke Jones 23:54
sure he did. But we still look, we still saw how that turned out for them in the defense there. Yeah, guys catch the ball, but, but they lost, and they lost pretty handily in the first round to Houston. So but, but again, you just look at these teams, and that’s where, again, you’re even with the issues with the past defense. There’s nothing else that needs to be said about the Ravens at this point in time, and moving forward for the foreseeable future, if Lamar Jackson is healthy. The Ravens always, always, always have a chance and a good chance on any given week no matter the matchup. That doesn’t mean they won’t lose games occasionally, let’s be clear. But when you have that kind of guy, Lamar Jackson, Patrick mahomes, Joe burrow, Josh Allen, Jayden, Daniels, I think is rapidly coming into that category. Again, he’s still got some work to do. Don’t want to crown him and anoint him just yet, but it’s looking really good halfway through his rookie year. You know, when you have one of those guys, you always have a chance when you don’t. You’re all those other teams we’re talking about right now that, okay, they might be a one. Wild Card contender, and they might make it into the playoffs, but no one’s talking about them in terms of any serious conversation about being a Super Bowl contender. So yeah, it’s weird to be talking about the Washington commanders and Detroit. I think we’re getting used to finally, because they did it last year too, but you kind of look at it, and it’s definitely strange to look at the the top of the NFC. And I mean, meanwhile, you got the 40 Niners, who we haven’t even mentioned, and they’re just, you know, ravaged by injuries, and they’re 500 and, you know, on a buy and all that. But you know, they, you know, that’s the team that has kind of been the class of the of the conference, the last five years overall, and man, there they’ve got some work to do the second half of the season. Sure.
Nestor Aparicio 25:46
Luke Jones is here. He is Baltimore, Luke, he’ll be ready for the game on Thursday night. We have a short week here for football, long week here for the American politics thing. We’re certainly going to be putting the Maryland crab cake tour back together again next week, Cooper’s North State Fair, Beaumont, we’re going to be over the West Side. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. I have some Raven scratch offs to give away. I’m going to shave up get cleaned up this week. We have all sorts things going on around here as we we move into November and play hasty football on Thursday night, and then have a whole weekend to to celebrate and sit around and watch watch the NFL beat each other up. So hopefully they’re able to get out of this thing on Thursday night against the Bengals with a victory, good football game ahead. Luke be monitoring that, as well as all of his thoughts leading into Thursday night out at Baltimore. Positive. I am Nestor. He’s Luke. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and we never stopped talking, Baltimore positive i.
