Patrick Mahomes has been a problem for every team in the NFL. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Ravens’ defensive effort in Kansas City after Thursday’s 27-20 loss to the Chiefs and whether they’ll get another chance in January.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
offensive line, points, play, defense, week, ravens, year, talking, lamar, ball, patrick, game, team, timeouts, chiefs, coverage, doubt, field, minutes, win
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Come home. We are W, N, S, T, A, M, 1570 tassel, Baltimore, Baltimore, positive. We are positively into a really weird week. Ravens are going to be Owen one for 10 days, almost 11 days, where it’s all over with that time we get back together, get a lot of baseball around here. We’re doing the Maryland crab cake tour back out on the road next Friday, will be a part of the Fells Point oyster festival. I will have Maryland lottery scratch offs to give away. Have the Gold Rush seven doubles, but it’s Raven scratch off season. As you hear the ads around here and see them in the Ravens games, good seeing Jo and Jimmy Smith get a little FaceTime in that lottery ad on Thursday night as well. We did not like the outcome at all, but I’m going to eat 10 oysters to heal myself over the next 10 days, it is the Maryland oyster tour. Find the hashtag at MD oyster tour.com. Had our first oyster with John shields over at Gertrude at the BMH, the lovely place. We’re going to go back and do the show there with Dan Rodgers, maybe John Waters and some others during the holidays. In the meantime, Luke and I will lick our purple wounds, as we say here, and do what I used to call the day after. You know, civic therapy is what we’re trying to do here, from not even a foot, like an inch. You know, I don’t know if they’ll ever come closer and horrible out there yelling, Go for two. Go for two. At least they’ll have that moment. I mean, he was ready to go riverboat on all of it to try to win the game. I know analytically, you probably agree with that, not put Patrick mahomes back out or leaving it up to a coin flip, but a great way to kick off the season, a great way for NBC, a great way for the league star players. The game was, you know, in the balance all night, I mean, but for me, the whole night long, I didn’t have a whole lot of confidence they were gonna win the football game. They did not look like the best did not look like the better team for 60 minutes. Yeah, I
Luke Jones 01:45
think that’s fair. I’m not that Kansas City was perfect either. But certainly, you look at the collective self inflicted mistakes over the course of 60 minutes, and while there’s been a lot of focus on the offense, and we spend a segment talking about that. I mean, you look at the defense and look there was a lot, as much as we focused on the offensive line, because you’re replacing three starters with inexperienced players, other than Patrick McCarry, who has not been a starting right tackle for multiple years, right but he’s played more than the other ones. There was always a curiosity of what this defense was going to look like when you consider Mike McDonald moving on other assistants, moving on jadavion Clowney, moving on Patrick Queen Gino stone. I mean, you’re talking about not necessarily your elite of elite talents, but important cogs to what they did last year. And I think the result gets hurt early in the game. Sure. No question, no question. So that put a little more on the edge guys. I mean, OA ended up playing, I think 46 of 54 snaps, which 46 isn’t outrageous. I mean, he’s a young guy, but certainly it put a Jabo on the field. More. It put tavius Robinson on the field. More. Put Malik Harrison on the field. Probably a few more plays than you’d like to see. And I think you saw him exposed in coverage as a SAM linebacker, but I think you know what we saw from the defense. I didn’t expect them to hold the chiefs to 17 points again, right? I mean, that was a well oiled machine when you’re talking about that defense last January, the and not just, not just talking about the players, the operation, the entire entity, and how seamless it was, from a standpoint of just they had played a whole year together. I mean, as much pre snap activity like that, the Ravens like to offer to kind of confuse the opposition. It takes time to do that. And I can recall two years ago when Mike McDonald first took over, and there were busted, busted coverages, and there were hiccups, and there were things that didn’t look right. You know, even putting aside that roquan Smith hadn’t quite, hadn’t arrived yet, right, which was obviously a major factor for that 22 defense. But you know what we saw on Thursday night, clearly, some busted coverages. I mean, the Marlin Humphrey one, where it looked like they, you know, he needed to be in man, and he passed them off like it was covered too. And obviously worthy as fast as advertised, especially if you don’t cover them at all, you know. So, you know. So there were definitely things that they need to clean up. I think they will, you know, I don’t think Zach or is in over his head or anything like that. I’ve never thought that. I think he’s going to be a good defensive coordinator, whether he’s becoming a head coach two years from now or not, who knows. But I think he’s going to do the job. But at the same time, there are a lot of new pieces, and I think there were hiccups, and knowing that it’s Patrick mahomes and Andy Reid on the other side, they’re going to expose you. So they didn’t blitz a whole lot in the first half, whatsoever. I didn’t see the official numbers in the second half, but I think they only blitzed. Want to say they only blitz once according to the next gen stats in the first half. But we also know when Martindale, several years ago, learned the hard way about not blitzing. Check my home. So you’re always trying to take, you know, past experiences, past match ups, and you’re trying to learn from that Zach or obviously, has been part of this staff. But you know, a couple things that really stood out to me. They really tried to expose the middle of the field coverage. They picked on roquan Smith, they picked on Malik Harrison. They tried to isolate them in coverage with Rasheed rice down the middle, and it worked well for them. You know, Kelsey didn’t have a big game. And I think you can point to Kyle Hamilton by and large for that, not not saying he was on him the entire night, but was on him quite a bit, as was the case back in January. But I do want to throw one positive out there that I was very much encouraged by. That was Trenton Simpson. I thought he played a good football game. Had the PBU and as much as the focus was on Patrick mahomes catching his own pass, and that allowed them to chew the last seconds to the two minute warning. Go back and look at that replay. Rasheed Rice was open that if Trenton Simpson doesn’t knock that ball up in the air, that’s probably the ball game right there. I mean, that is the ball game right there. So I thought Trenton Simpson, who did not play every snap as I predicted, you know, he played 38 of 54 snap. So roughly, you can estimate they were in dime about, you know, not quite a third of the time, but they certainly played some dime with Eddie Jackson coming on the field as a third safety. But, you know, I was, I was encouraged by what we saw from Trenton Simpson, because he was the guy. I thought that they would really try to isolate in coverage. And you know, the couple times where he was, he did a he did a pretty good job. I thought, so look, there are things to clean up. There’s no doubt about it. And clearly they had some personnel issues where they had to. We saw them burn time a timeout very early in the second half. That’s not what you want, whatsoever. But that was at least one factor that I was encouraged by. It was great seeing a jobbo Get the sack when he did. But look, if, if people want to be outraged over giving up 27 points to the Kansas City Chiefs on the road. Look, it’s, it’s the chiefs. What the Ravens did last January was pretty exceptional, when you look at it from the, you know, from the macro standpoint of giving up 17 points to the Kansas City Chiefs in a championship game. I expected them to have a few more struggles, and they did, and it was up and down, and certainly the busted coverages, you need to clean that up. You need to make sure you’re getting players on and off the field in terms of personnel groupings, that needs to be tightened up. There’s no doubt about that. So, you know, it was a mixed bag. I mean, obviously they had some penalties, and, you know, we talked about the penalties with the offensive line and illegal formation. The Ravens certainly had some penalties on defense as well. But I can’t sit here and say that I’m massively concerned about anything I saw with the defense. These are the kind of things I I kind of figured we might end up seeing, and they they need to get better with it. There’s no doubt about it, if they’re doing the same things again against the Raiders next Sunday, then that’s a different conversation. Then we’re saying, Hey, okay, it’s one thing if Andy Reid and the Chiefs get you out of sorts, but if you’re doing that against the Raiders or against other opponents over the next six weeks or so, then I’m a little more concerned. But again, lots of new pieces, new coaches, you’re going to have some of that, I think. And again, I’m not saying that just to forgive it. I’m just saying I’m not shocked by it, I’m not surprised by it. But you know that they got the stop at the end, and the offense had a chance there. So and also, let’s point out, in that first half, a couple sudden change situations that could have been touchdowns, they held Kansas City to three. You know, if you can hold Kansas City to three, we talked about this years ago with the Patriots. It was the same thing, or Peyton Manning with Indianapolis, slow down. Just slow you can hold them if they get in position a couple times where, you know, there’s a sudden change. You know, they had the turnover, the strip sack, the missed field goal. You know, you look at some of those situations, it wasn’t ideal from a field position standpoint. To state the obvious. If you can hold them to three in a couple of those instances, you give yourself a chance. So, you know, again, they gave up yards. They, you know, gave up. Look at the yards per play. It wasn’t pretty. They had some I mean, the coverage bust was bad. I mean, you can’t have that happen, especially considering the situation in the second half.
Nestor Aparicio 09:30
So what do you ask Marlin Humphrey about that? Well, I I
Luke Jones 09:34
mean, it’s just what, where was the what was the coverage there? I mean, where was your help? Did he met well, did he? Did he think he had help and he was wrong? Or, you know, I think I saw someone make mention, and again, without seeing the all 22 you don’t know for certain, you know, I saw some people mention that, you know, was Hamilton supposed to drop back there, or did Marlon Humphrey just mess it up? Right? I mean, based on the way it looked, it kind. Look like Humphrey should have been staying with them all along. But again, first game, new, new, you know, lots of moving parts. New assistants. It only
Nestor Aparicio 10:09
takes one when Patrick mahomes can come and get right. I mean, that’s the thing. I mean,
Luke Jones 10:13
you have such a tiny margin for error. I mean, you really do. And so again, I’m not sitting here saying, hey, two thumbs up. Great job by the defense. You know, they they messed up and they had their breakdowns, no question about it, 27 points. I mean, you could tell roquan Smith in the post game, he was not happy, you know, he said, That’s the worst game we’re going to play all year. I can promise you that. Now we’ll see. You know, I would certainly think when it’s all said and done, this is going to continue to be a really good defense. I’ve said that all along, might not, you know, not going to lead the league in sacks, points allowed, in takeaways, again, most likely because that was a historic accomplishment. But I still fully expect this to be a top five caliber defense as the year goes on. But what I saw Monday or Thursday night, I can’t say it was stunned by some of those hiccups there. I mean, you know, you got to clean it up. And certainly you don’t want to be burning timeouts right off the bat early in the second half. I mean, you don’t want that. I mean that look how, how crucial that was not having another time out late in the game, whether we’re talking about the last drive or even the drive before that. So, you know, it’s just but
Nestor Aparicio 11:19
the Chiefs did that on defense. You forced them to have hiccups and have mistakes, and those mistakes cost timeouts, and then they cost a clock at the end of the game. You aided the clock management all along, right? Yeah.
Luke Jones 11:30
I mean, it’s just, I, I will
Nestor Aparicio 11:35
give yourself the best chance to win. That’s where I am on right?
Luke Jones 11:40
And I guess for me, I wasn’t. It wasn’t so much about the last drive of the game, but it was more so the next to last drive where I felt they were taking a lot of time, considering they’re 18 to brick.
Nestor Aparicio 11:51
I follow him on Twitter. He’s like, Yeah, they’re nailed 10 points. What are they doing?
Luke Jones 11:56
It felt like they were playing they were from a tempo standpoint. It felt like they were thinking they were down by one score rather than two,
Nestor Aparicio 12:03
like they were gonna throw in an onside kick or something. And then what do you need to do, right? Right? And then when
Luke Jones 12:08
you factored, and I know we were talking about the defense, and we’ve shifted the offense, but they also didn’t
Nestor Aparicio 12:12
have timeouts, if they call it, you know, they had no timeouts to stop mahomes, right? They give them the ball back, and that that’s also really probably and then you have to stop the short sure you know you’re gonna lose,
Luke Jones 12:22
right? But I think for me, it was that penultimate drive. And remember, they went for the fourth down, got it, and then, you know, really, what ends up happening is you just kind of took more time off, and you had to end up kicking a field goal anyway. So I almost felt, and I know what the second one was, fourth and four. I think it was when they kicked the field goal there with Tucker. So I doubt that was
Nestor Aparicio 12:44
a little bit riverboat to just not kick the kick with, get the game within a touchdown, give him the ball back. Let’s go play defense. The thought is you might not get the ball back, I understand that, but the thought that you’re going to score a touchdown here and then get the ball back and then have to kick a field goal. I don’t know I would have taken, I’m with you. I would have been more like, let’s get the points. Let’s get this thing manageable. And at some point our defense, you have to make a stop anyway. We’re just going to have to, you know, well, See,
Luke Jones 13:10
that wasn’t exactly what I was saying for me. When you go, when you go for it on fourth and one from the 22 that almost makes me with it was about six and a half minutes to go at that point. That almost makes me feel like you’re you’re kind of pot committed then to unless it’s fourth and 12 the next time you almost need to go for it again. Now it was fourth and four. They made it. It’s 454 to go. They did get the ball back. They got the ball back with enough time to get down to the 10 yard line. So it’s not like the clock was a massive, massive factor on the final drive, but I just their ability
Nestor Aparicio 13:46
to have to run the ball, and they never went up spiked or anything. You know what? I mean? Yeah. I mean, use the typical, let’s run a two minute offense. I mean, they got down within an inch and winning the game without doing it in a conservative way with the clock. I because, well,
Luke Jones 14:01
and again, I keep going back to that the previous drive is really where I struggled more with, you know, you need a little more tempo. I mean, they got the ball with 1025, to go, and then they ended up, and that was at their own 30. So it’s not like, it’s not like they were had awful pass, you know, field position at that point. Do
Nestor Aparicio 14:19
you think they’re getting the ball twice or three times with 10 minutes left to go? Well, you’re
Luke Jones 14:22
left to go? Well, you’re thinking, you’re hoping, I mean, it probably twice, definitely twice, but you don’t know, right? I mean, you don’t know. So for me, that’s where you were taking so much time, and you get to the point where you have they got the fourth and one. So it was first and 10 from the Kansas City 20 with under six minutes to go at that point, that’s where I kind of feel you’ve taken all this time. Now it does feel like you need to get the touchdown, because you might not get the ball back until there’s 30 seconds to go, and then you might be looking at Justin Tucker having to kick a 60 yard
Nestor Aparicio 14:54
field goal to try to plays he had from 10 minutes to six minutes, but it wasn’t enough. So I just kind of, I felt like. It’s that, that next to last drive, it
Luke Jones 15:01
kind of felt they were caught in between, right? Like they didn’t the tempo. I mean, they moved the ball, but they moved the ball in a way that it was just still really methodical. And they just, they put themselves in a position where they took so much time. I mean, think about it, 13 plays, 56 yards, five minutes, 31 seconds taken off. I mean, that’s, that’s a lot of time taken off to only settle for a field goal then So again, you’re, you’re trying to manage it the best you can. With offensive line concerns that were much more evident in the first half, they played better later in the game, they adjusted. Lamar went into the phone booth and was taken off, what he needed to take off, and that was just that. But
Nestor Aparicio 15:43
that’s what they do when they’re 10 points down. That’s the game. Well, I
Luke Jones 15:46
mean, look, I mean, there aren’t many offenses that operate well when they’re down 10 points. I mean, that’s part of the the dirty little secret about that whole narrative. I mean, okay, for every Patrick mahomes, there are other elite quarterbacks around the league who struggle when they’re down 10 points as well. So, but that said there were definitely times where, I mean, you’re down 10 points and the play clocks close to expiring more than once that happened, and it’s just you need a little more tempo. And look, I mean, they the last drive. I mean, they didn’t have much time at all, and they made it work. They got down the field. Now, clearly the Bateman play was the big chunk play, but you know, it’s just, there are too many times you know, whether we’re talking about monk, and certainly Greg Roman as well, in previous years, where you just get caught in between. And that’s where you kind of look, that’s where you have to look at the head coach and say, hey, you know what, what’s, what’s happening here? You know what? What is how? How is this being talked about in meetings and on the practice field, and then, how is it being applied? And I’m not blaming John Harbaugh 100% but the head coach is in charge of the operation, and, you know, just felt that they were caught in between. You know, same thing. End of the first half. I thought they had, you know, they and, let me be clear, I’d be disingenuous if I didn’t at least acknowledge this, when you are playing a team like Kansas City or any high octane offense on the other side, you are trying to factor, wanting to score and not leave time on the clock for the other team. And I don’t think that was that clearly wasn’t an issue at the very end, but it’s an issue when you’re operating in a two minute drill at the end of the first at the end
Nestor Aparicio 17:24
of the day. For them playing mahomes on the road, down two scores, they knew mahomes is going to get the ball back, and they knew they were going to have to stop him at some point and do it really quickly. Because I thought, with four and a half minutes left, when they got the ball back, I’m like, they’re not going to get the ball back. I thought to myself, with no timeouts, they’re two first downs away from icing it, and I just didn’t think they would get the ball back. I i That was heartening. I mean, you want to be heartened by anything. Be heartened by the two minute offense. Be hardened by being sure and inch out. Be be hardened by all the things they effed up. They had a chance in the end, and I guess that’s where the beginning of this started, right. For all the things they got wrong, they had a chance to win at least made it interesting. That’s not a moral victory, as you’d point out. But a lot of people are like, if they play like this the rest of the year, they’re still going to win 11 or 12 games. We believe that all along. I don’t know where those wins are coming from. Wake me in two weeks with Dallas and Buffalo and Cincinnati start showing up around here. You think you’re going to stack wins against playoff caliber teams with that offensive line right now playing road games in Dallas. I you know, they feel to me like they’re going to be three and two or two and three a couple weeks from now. They don’t feel like they’re going to be four and one. They don’t feel like a powerful team. Yet, they feel like a potential team, but the offensive line is going, it’s never going to be great about that. How about how about me 60 minutes into this saying this thing’s going to be a problem all year because Voorhees ballet, lay, pick, any of the guys are going to play it right? Tackle, I know you love linderbot, and that’s fine, but I think there’s you’re asking the middle guy to do too much when he’s got no anchors around him, and when the left tackle will always be a question mark for us, right because he just spent so much time not playing that we’re nervous about that. And then the penalties. I mean, we can talk about the penalties all day long, but the story for me at the end of it, and I’m writing my piece and my columnist as well as a letter to Eric da Costa and a whole bunch. David Rubenstein is getting his letter next week. I’ll be doing a lot of writing. Doing a lot of writing next couple weeks. I’m I’m Hemingway myself. But you know, to me, the story is, in an offensive line, can they I’m gonna say, can they win a Super Bowl in week one? I’m just like, who are they gonna look good against? You know, when are they gonna go out and be in second and one, maybe they will, because Derek hemmer runs the people over certain weeks against really crappy teams. I don’t know that the Raiders are a crappy defense coming in here next week, that they can at least take the ball away. Do this? Do that? Sort of bottle them up a little bit. I don’t think they’ll, they’ll be running circles offensively around mcgardner Minshew, but I, I do think defensively, they can come in and be formidable next week a. Little bit to slow him down, and I do worry about the offensive line being the overall weak part of this team, where you’re expecting Lamar and Derrick Henry and zay flowers and Mark Andrews, and now likely, now that his star is out, that they’re going to be star players when you’re in bad down and distance, you can’t run the ball when you need to and the passing game’s a little weird to begin with. Just in general, I don’t know we got in Bateman, and I don’t know what kind of protection Lamar is going to get. And when he doesn’t get protection, it winds up not being a pass. It winds up being a Lamar run for six yards or eight yards, or maybe 40 yards, or, you know, maybe gets his ankle broken running around 16 times a game, stupid, you know. So I don’t know, but I know the offensive line is going to be problematic for them until such point where you and I say, okay, they have their next, I don’t say Marshall yonda, but they have their next starting caliber players. I know. I’m not sure that they have, they have a center. They got a left tackle that used to be good, and then we’ll find out the other three spots. To me, if you’re trying to run $100 million offense with that offensive line right now as comprised, it’s going to have to get better. And the cost admitted that last week, sure,
Luke Jones 21:13
sure. And I mean, look, I think anytime you’re talking about new players and new spots, especially when you’re talking about how important an offensive line is, you’re hoping for that that trend word up, right? I talked
Nestor Aparicio 21:28
about it for nine months exactly now that I saw it, you know, I’m not loading, I
Luke Jones 21:34
agree. But I also think it’s important to remember it’s week one, and we’ve seen over and over, not just the Ravens. Mean, look at the Chiefs last year, how they looked to get Detroit week one. I mean, look how the Chiefs look most of the season, right until it really mattered. And that’s why they’re the chiefs. But that’s where I do want to see what it looks like next Sunday against the Raiders. Keep in mind Kansas City defense was a big reason why they won a Super Bowl last year. I mean, it’s okay, I get it, Snead’s not there on the back end of the defense. And, you know, there’s obviously some new pieces here and there. I mean, every, every team has that, but that’s a good defense, and Steve spanola is a heck of a defensive coordinator, and they’ve had that now, you look at it two games, they’ve had the the Ravens number right? They’ve dealt with Lamar, sure. They’ve done a good job against them, and now they didn’t do as good on Thursday night as they did last January, but they still they held them to 20 points. And not many teams hold the Ravens offense to 20 points. The last five, six years of evidence would support that. So and Tucker, Mr. Kick, right? So, so let’s you know, let’s see what it looks like in week two. We’ve talked about this in week one with especially with the lack of time in the preseason at this point. I mean, and even Kansas City, you know, it’s not like they played a ton in the preseason. Week one tends to be choppy. I mean, it’s just the truth. I mean, these teams don’t tackle anymore in practice, in practice. I mean, they don’t tackle to the ground anymore. They don’t they rarely go fully live so and that’s, let’s be clear, I’m not making an excuse for the Ravens. That’s everyone. So my point with that is, if you had some question marks, especially when you’re talking about physical spots, and you’re talking about guys that are brand new, Daniel Fowle made his first career start at right guard. No, didn’t look pretty. You know, makes me wonder again, is Ben Cleveland really not one of their two best options at guard? You know, I thought Voorhees looked better than he looked in the preseason. Quite frankly, I had concerns with how he looked in the preseason. I you know, I without having reviewed it thoroughly just yet, I thought he held up okay right tackle, I don’t know right now. I mean, I thought Rosengarten was going to be ready to take over much sooner rather than later. Patrick McCary, kind of is what he is. He’s this versatile, amazing sixth offensive lineman who can line up and play anywhere you need them to on a whim. And that is so valuable, especially on game day, especially considering the injury history of your left tackle, and we’ve seen that over the last couple of years with McCary needing to play. There is he a long term every week starting right tackle. I have my doubts about that, and some of that is also physical, as far as the Raven wanting him to hold up and be on the field and be available. And you know, he’s someone who has, you know, kind of a back issue long term that he has to manage, you know, not saying that it’s going to sideline him, but that’s part of why he’s so good in that sixth man role. But I did not see a rookie right tackle on Thursday night that looked ready to take over the starting job. You know, that doesn’t mean he won’t be by week three or four or five or week seven, but you want to see progress, and I will say again, in defense and in fairness of that off to that offensive line, it did look better later in the game, and some of that might have been just Lamar, just being the magician. And Lamar and and by the way, he made the veteran offensive line look better last year than it was at times. So let’s be clear on that, but you need to see progress. I’m with you 100% on that. You need to see that offensive line look better in week two. Certainly want to see it look better from a run blocking standpoint. Derek Henry’s terrific, right? He’s probably going to be in the Hall of Fame. But last year in Tennessee, he proved that he can’t do it alone, right? He only averaged what, 4.2 yards per carry, because that was a dreadful offensive line. He needs his offensive line to take a step forward next week and take another step forward the week after that. And you that’s what you want to see. You want to see growth. I did not expect this offensive line to look great on Thursday night, far from it. So I can’t say I’m stunned by it, but boy, it needs to get better. There’s no doubt about that, because you don’t want to be in a position where you’re forced to have Lamar scrambling and running for his life and doing the things that he does, which are so special, but if he is forced to do it to that magnitude, to that degree every single week, then yes, I will share my concerns that that you express when Lamar carries the ball 16, 1718, times. I’m with you on that. So you want to have a much tighter operation on that front, and you want to see progress, starting next Sunday against the Raiders. There’s no doubt about that.
Nestor Aparicio 26:27
Knew I should have bought that Derrick Henry Oilers Jersey when I had the opportunity for 35 bucks. Uh, Luke Jones is here. He’s Baltimore, Luke. He is doing it all weekend long. The Orioles are home. The Orioles are going to play a lot of baseball in Boston next week and other plays. We get a lot of baseball conversation around here, but we’re going to do football getting through the weekend. We got a whole day of football on Sunday. Got to figure out this Brazilian thing, and we got to figure out Raiders next week as well. The Ravens will be oh and one for the next almost a fortnight. And we’ll try to figure it all out. And talk about the offensive line, talk about what we’ve seen, talk about the defense, all of that and more. He is Luke. I am Nestor. We are wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore football.
