Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the strength of the Ravens’ secondary and beating the rest of the AFC North this season. Starting with the defending Super Bowl champion Kansas City Chiefs on Thursday night.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
year, ravens, field, game, quarterbacks, ricard, point, orioles, disgraceful, mark andrews, steelers, defense, word, lamar, line, offense, patrick, season, play, talked
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W N, S T, tassel, Baltimore, Baltimore positive and am 1570 make sure you’re setting your dial with us as we get into baseball and football here. Lots of politics are gonna be doing this month. Lots of crab cake tours, all brought to you by our friends at the Maryland honor. Have the Gold Rush sevens doublers at Cocos this week, by the time we get going next week and get the coopers for the Fells Point oyster festival next Friday, we’re gonna be down there with Chad whistling as well as Dave shining from the Washington Post. We will have the Ravens scratch offs in our possession. We’re gonna be at Cocos with Mark Viviano on Wednesday of this week, before the kids city game and then crab cake tours oyster day every day for 26 years, we are celebrating our 26th anniversary here at W NST, all of it brought to you by friends at Liberty, pure solutions. They keep our water clean. They keep your well water clean, and they can take care of your plumbing needs. You visit them at Liberty, pure.com Also our friends at Jiffy Lube, multi care, making the the oil run. My little orange lights on, I got to get over the Jiffy Lube and Timonium, right across street from curio wellness and from foreign data, right at the York and Timonium road. So big appreciation to all of our sponsors as we begin football season. I have been writing at length all summer long. You are going to begin reading my writings. A letter to Eric the Costa will be out by the time you check this out. And if you’re a Pearl Jam fan, you’ll really like it. Luke is here. Luke is ready for Thursday night. I am ready for Thursday night. I’m always ready for Friday morning already. Get this over with and see whether they’re going to win or lose ravens or underdogs. Going out to Kansas City, lots of questions about the ravens, and I’m sure Kansas City lots question about the chiefs, even in the aftermath of winning another World Championship there and have another Super Bowl parade. Luke, the questions for the Ravens. We talked so much about Lamar and mahomes. We haven’t even talked about Taylor Swift, whether she’s gonna be there Thursday night or not. I haven’t checked her tour schedule. And we talked about Kelsey and mahomes sort of owning the game back in January and where the stars come out and all that. Ravens got a lot of star players too. And I talked about turnovers and defense, and we talked about roquan Smith. And I saw the video of, again, of the offensive lineman, you know, laughing at roquan Smith in the in the locker room. Um, I don’t know if it’s bad blood, but it’s not good blood when you get bounced out of AFG champion game. Marlon Humphrey, trying to make his way, Ronnie Stanley, trying to make his way. But what about Mark Andrews in this car accident and choppy year last year? For him, with health open the door for Isaiah, likely to become maybe a star, maybe he’s a big contract guy when this is all over with at some point. But we talk about the running game. Derek Henry, we haven’t talked a whole lot about zay flowers. You certainly haven’t talked a whole lot about Mark Andrews. And this too tight end set that you’ve been out there watching practice. I don’t know how much they’re running it, but that would be something that would be an interesting thing the first month, to see how the two tight ends are going to work with a neophyte offensive line.
Luke Jones 02:56
Yeah. I mean, I think, look, it’s natural that the focus is on Derek Henry in terms of the big off season signing, and someone who is very well possibly going to the Hall of Fame, and everything he’s done in his career. But one thing you’ve heard me say, even as you and I have debated the impact of that move, you still gotta throw the ball. You’ve got to throw the ball in 2024 you’ve got to do that at a high level. And the Ravens did that for most of 2024 I mean, you look at not from a volume standpoint, we we’re over this, right? This isn’t about how many passing yards per game Lamar has, or this offense has. It’s about efficiency. It’s about explosive plays. It’s about doing it on third down, when you are in third and seven and you need to throw the ball, can you do it? And the Ravens did that at a very high level last year, and that was even with with Mark Andrews going down in mid November. And the big reason why Isaiah likely played so very well down the stretch. But I think what’s what was so lost in what happened in that game against Kansas City in late January was, Yes, Mark Andrews came back, but he wasn’t Mark Andrews yet, right? I mean, it was admirable that he got himself to the point where he was healthy enough to go out there and, you know, he ran around, you know, he played some. I caught one or two passes. I can’t remember what it was off the top of my head, but clearly, didn’t make a major impact. Make a major impact. But I think what you see now going into 2024 and what for me is the most interesting dynamic of their passing game is, do we see the Ravens make a more considered, concerted effort to get Isaiah likely and Mark Andrews on the field at the same time. I know it’s something they talked about a little bit two years ago. They talked about it more last year. But let’s face it, go look at how the numbers broke down for Mark Andrews and Isaiah likely, likely, was an afterthought in their offense until Andrews got hurt in mid November, and then, of course. Became the guy. So is there a way to incorporate more too tight looks where you have both those guys on the field? Now, couple things that complicate that it’s not just as simple as, oh, we’ll just put them both out on the field, right? You have to take into account route concepts, body types you have on the field, how you’re how the opposition is going to play them ideally, and this is where I still have some reservations about how much we’ll see that and how impactful it’ll be, even though I do think they’re going to try it and and I do think you’ll see it more than we saw in past years. In an ideal world, if you have two tight ends that differentiate enough where one guy is an inline guy lining up in the three point stance and the other guys lining up in the slot. And what comes to mind right now, for me immediately, is thinking back to Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez. But you know Aaron Hernandez before murdering people and going to jail and all that, but you kind of remember Gronkowski put his hand in the ground, three point stance, Aaron Hernandez lining up in the slot? Yes, the Ravens can do that with those two guys, but neither one of them are your traditional inline tight end. They’re much more slot options. So yeah, that complicates things a little bit in terms of your effort to do that, but I think the overall point as it pertains to this passing game remains very similar to where it’s been in the past. Zay flowers, the clear cut number one wide receiver, right? Had a really promising rookie year. Expectations are even higher this year, and I feel confident that zay flowers is going to be a big part of what they do because Lamar Jackson loves throwing them the football, and he warranted the targets last year, and I think a warrant more targets this year, but Mark Andrews for five years now, six years has been their true number one pass catching target over that whole time, not saying that that’s necessarily going to change, even if it becomes one and one a with him and zay flowers. But the question has always been whether it was Hollywood Brown and Mark Andrews in the in the early years, or now zay flowers and Mark Andrews. The question is, who is the number three? Is it going to be Rashad Bateman? You know, I believe it. I’ll believe it when I see it, right? I think Bateman can contribute. I think you can be a part of what they do, but until I see it, it still feels way more complimentary than anything else. So that’s where we do, bring Isaiah likely into the conversation and say, does he become the you know, and again, wide receiver versus tight end, you know, you can almost drop that distinction, because both Andrews and likely play more like hybrid wide receivers. I mean, they really do, right? I mean, that’s why we see that’s why we see Patrick Ricard line up as a blocking tight end so much in this offense, because he’s the best out of any other tight ends slash fullbacks that can do it but can. Isaiah likely emerged to be more of a legitimate number three past catching option when Mark Andrews is healthy and on the field. And I think that is such an interesting dynamic for them. Because, you know, last year, they really they pivoted big time from where they were with Greg Roman at the end, which was a lot of 22 personnel, two running backs to, you know, 21 personnel, two running backs, one tight end. And of course, Ricard was, you know, technically a fullback, but lining up as a tight end. But last year they did, they ran way more 11 personnel, so way more three wide receiver sets. I don’t think they’re going to drop that, because I think some of this is also when you spread out in three wide receiver sets. What does that also do? Nestor, it means you’re gonna have a lighter box, and that’s gonna make things easier for this offensive line. It’s gonna make things easier for Derek Henry. It’s gonna make things easier for Lamar Jackson when he takes off and scrambles. So I don’t think they’re going to like, I don’t think 12 personnel is going to become this massive, overwhelming, you know, majority of what they do, but I do think you’re going to see it more and again, both these guys are more slot type past past catching targets anyway. So you know, you can almost line it up in pseudo 11 personnel, and it’s still those two guys are both lined up as receivers, essentially. So I am interested to see how that works. I do think a major point of emphasis for them this off season was Todd Monkton to design more route concepts and combinations to take advantage of those two guys on the field at the same time, way more frequently than we’ve seen in the past. So I am curious to see how that’s going to work out. And I think that’s something think that’s something that could be a major plus for this dolphins, if you’re talking in terms of, okay, how do things evolve in year two with Todd monk, and we’ve talked about Derek Henry, you know, of course, on the running, on the rushing side of things, that’s a massive change and a massive addition. But on the passing side of things, I do look at the. Isaiah, likely, Mark Andrews combo possibility, and that that’s intriguing. You know, I it’s got to come to fruition. It’s got to make sense. And again, it’s not quite as simple as some have made it out to be, because, you know, neither one of those guys are at their best lining up in a three point stance. But that doesn’t mean you can’t do it. It doesn’t mean it won’t work. That doesn’t mean it won’t be successful, but I think that is an intriguing element to ponder as we’re looking at and imagining how this offense might look different from last year, which keep in mind, up until the AFC Championship Game, had been a very successful first season under Todd monkin. You know, I’ll be
Nestor Aparicio 10:38
writing a letter to John Harbaugh at some point. The Costa will get his letter this week. And if you haven’t read our work at Baltimore positive, I’ve been writing about media credentials and access and just letters to people that I have no access to speak to, like David Rubenstein and Eric the cost and different people the hardball thing. Look, I could go back and forth. Certainly his integrity. I would tell him to his face, I’ll tell his wife, I’ll tell his brother. Anybody, any listener, he’s a fraud. Integrity wise, so I but football wise and football smarts wise. The Record thing of all the things that I would put on John and through this look Lamar at the top. They decided to go with this offense. They decided to change their personnel. They did it as an organization. John’s been a part of that. But I think of Pat Ricard being a defensive guy, and John Harbaugh liking the notion that he could play in the offense. He started with Flacco, right? I mean, he has really, he was doing shows a green mount station with us before the plague. He’s been around a long time. He’s gone to Pro Bowls. It feels like Bobby got Derrick Henry. They got two tight ends. Now he would be gone. He’s the most interesting guy in all the horrible years of finding a player in a role that’s sort of weird, and he’s like a wet boogie. He’s not going away. He’s unique. And I don’t know how they’re going to use him, but the notion that they still kept him around says to me that they see value in him in this offense, and they’re going to try to utilize that value, because he’s a, he’s a really unique football player in the history of all the football players here. I think, yeah,
Luke Jones 12:18
I mean, I think it’s, it’s, it’s been fascinating to see how his role has evolved. You know, going back from the very beginning, but even going from Greg Roman to Todd Monken. I mean, if you recall, at the beginning a training camp last year they they actually messed around and worked Ricard as an offensive lineman. Now it only lasted like two days, but there was a lot of question as far as how much he was going to play, what his role was going to look like. I already mentioned the transition from them running more 21 personnel to 11 personnel this past year. But what we’ve seen with Patrick Ricard is really his roles evolved from the sense of, you know, Todd monkins, not using a fullback all that much in the traditional sense. You know, there’s been a lot of talking, believe me, I’m curious, and we’ll see it, but I don’t think we’re going to see it a ton of Patrick Ricard lining up as a fullback, and I formation with Derek Henry and blocking for him. I don’t think you’re going to see that in a traditional sense a whole lot. But what we think
Nestor Aparicio 13:17
that’s a hard thing to stop, if it’s designed well, you have Lamar at the mesh. I mean, like, it is, but it’s, yeah, it’s
Luke Jones 13:23
a lot of body, right? I mean, that’s a lot of traffic right there too,
Nestor Aparicio 13:27
but if you need two yards, and
Luke Jones 13:30
again, I’m not, I’m just saying that’s not going to be their base package, right? Like, you’re not going to see them do that 70% of the time, right?
Nestor Aparicio 13:36
But I think it could be their base package with eight minutes left to go, and they have a nine point lead, and, you know, three yards in a cloud of dust, and you can’t stop it, like literally, and if you try to stop it, Lamar might go around it back in and get 38 on. You’re going, No,
Luke Jones 13:50
I’m I’m not saying that. We’re not going to see that. But what I’m trying to explain is how Patrick ricards role has evolved in this offense, transitioning from Greg Roman, which was much more fullback and some in line tight end. So what he did last year? And yeah, you can go to sites like pro football focus or any of the analytics sites that kind of chart personnel groupings and where players line up. Patrick Ricard was way more in line blocking tight end last year than he was fullback, I know, in an ideal sense. And I’ve mentioned this to you in passing as we were going through mini camp and training camp, ideally, I think the Ravens would like to be in a position where they can move back to having a nick Boyle, kind of a blocking tight end in their offense who would also be a bigger threat as a receiver than what Ricard is, and I think they’ve been hoping that Charlie Kohler can be that guy, based on what we saw in the preseason, I don’t know if Charlie Kohler is ready to be that guy. So I think what we’re going to see is Patrick a card continuing to be their main blocking tight end quite a bit now. So when I say blocking tight end, that doesn’t mean that he’s just lining up three point stance, next to Ronnie Stanley, or next to Patrick McCary or next to Roger Rosengarten, and that’s it. Sometimes that’s motioning across the formation, motioning from tight end, you know, off off the line, tight end to the backfield, and looking like a fullback or vice versa. So there’s different ways to use him, but he’s just he’s still going to be a chess piece of what they use. And look, his usage last year wasn’t as strong as it was at his peak usage under Greg Roman, but he’s still going to be a big part of what they do. And it is amazing to see the evolution of him, because at this time last year, there was a lot of question just how much Ricard was going to play. And you know, some of that also factored in that their offensive line a year ago, and that’s where it kind of brings us back. Everything comes back to the offensive line at the end of the day. But a lot of that is also they needed Patrick Ricard on the field to help in pass protection and to help lock and they’d like to get to a point where they can feel good about holding up in five man protection, and that’s that, because that adds even more explosiveness to your offense and upside to your offense. But this offensive line might not be ready for that, especially early in the season, so they’re still very happy to have Patrick Ricard again. I don’t know how often he’s going to play, you know, I certainly don’t expect him to be out there 90% of the time, like he sometimes felt like he was when Greg Roman was running the show. But, you know, he can play fullback, he can play tight end, he can play off the line, in line, you know, motion out motion from tight end to fullback. Play a little bit of H back. I mean, he can do a lot for you. You he’s not going to catch a ton of passes, but he can catch he can run with the ball. We saw a couple big plays last year when he got the ball in space when the defense is trying to account for everyone else. So yeah, Patrick Ricard remains a really fun player, and you know, I’m guessing his time with the Ravens probably isn’t too long at this stage of his career, and where the ravens are going fundamentally, but they’re still really glad to have him, and he’s still going to be important to what they try to do, especially with the unknown that that comes with this offensive line right now and knowing that, yeah, you might need to run more Max protector or things of that nature. And certainly if you need to do that, then then then Patrick Ricard is going to be a big part of that.
Nestor Aparicio 17:22
Marlon Humphrey, um, my favorite Raven um, defense, passing game. You mentioned. Trenton Simpson, run around with Travis Kelsey. I don’t know what their plan is going to be for Travis Kelsey. They better have one better be better than they had what they had in in in the fourth quarter and third quarter of January, the secondary, we’ve talked a lot about it and moving parts and injured bodies. And you know, everybody from Darby and guys that are available, guys that aren’t available, guys that are gone, Geno stone, the other people, where are you with the secondary, and what they’ve done in and we’ll find out Thursday, right around 930 you know how things are going. What are we going to see from the secondary? Because this was, and I’m sure Eric talked about this last week to you, not to me, but they had to put some effort into that this offseason, that the whole defense, and lots of moving parts, with three agents and different things, pass rush with Clowney, middle of the defense, queen out Simpson in back of the defense. You know, Marlon Humphrey, and I know he loves him some Brandon Stevens, who thinks he’s going to get the next $80 million you know, cornerback deal, because the money’s out there. Um, a lot at stake for the backside of this defense and how Kyle Hamilton’s going to be used, which really isn’t his safety, yeah, yeah.
Luke Jones 18:40
I mean, I look on paper, I think this has the potential, and potential is not worth a whole lot at the end of the day, right? You have to go out and do it, and you’re always, you know, you’re in an injury or two at the wrong spot, away from suddenly having a way different outlook. But on paper, this defense looks very deep, or this secondary looks deep. I think the upside is obvious. I think you, of course, you have to stay healthy. When you talk about Marlon Humphrey coming off of an injury plague deer, when we’ve talked about Marcus Williams, and, you know, he’s played well when he’s been healthy and on the field, but he’s missed a lot of time the last couple years. You know, I mean, Kyle Hamilton has been a warrior, playing through stuff, but he’s gotten nicked up, you know, over the even over the course of the spring and summer, he was nicked up some. So always understanding that health is paramount, right? I mean, and that’s why going back to Ozzie Newsome, after going through what they kind of went through in 13 and 14 and 15, with not being deep enough, and then injuries hammering them in the secondary. From that point on, they’ve made a concerted effort to be as deep as possible in the secondary. You know when you draft Nate Wiggins, when you draft TJ Tampa in the fourth round, when you bring in a former pro bowl safety in Eddie Jackson to replace Gino stone as your number three safe. 50 when you resign Arthur millet, although Millett having his knee scope, he’s on the IR to start the year. You know, he’ll he’s expected back in October. But they have lots of pieces here. They have the ability. And I think the thing I expect out of this secondary is really what I what we saw last year, which is to be as multiple as they can possibly be, and to offer as many looks as they possibly can. And I think it’s going to look different from week to week, series to series, personnel package to personnel package. I think they have the ability to deceive and confuse quarterbacks on the back end, whether it’s lining up looking like you’re playing zone and then pivoting the to man and vice versa. I mean, we saw that all last year, and that was a mate that was more so. And I say this with no disrespect to Davion Clowney or Kyle van Noy or Justin mad at BK or adafe away, or whoever you want to talk about with a pass rush that led the league in sacks last year, but their ability to confuse pre snap and post snap quarterbacks as far as what they’re looking at in terms of coverage, in terms of what they’re looking at in terms of Sim pressures, and you know whether you’re going to actually blitz or look like you’re going to blitz and then drop back into coverage, that is The biggest factor at work here, and if Zach or and look, Zach Orr is going to need some time probably to settle in in the same way that Mike McDonald had some hiccups his first half season as coordinator, before he became what he’s become, which is now the head coach of the Seattle Seahawks. But they’re going to try to do all those things again, and I’m not guaranteeing that it’s going to go smoothly on Thursday night, because it’s Patrick mahomes and Andy Reid, and you’ve got a lot of new moving parts and a new defense coordinator who’s never called plays before, but collectively, that’s still going to be the the outlook. And the goal for this secondary is to use two or three different guys at the nickel and line up in nickel, line up in three, three safety looks line up in the dime, move Kyle Hamilton all over the field. You know, whether he’s lining up as a safety, as a linebacker, as an edge player. I mean, we’ve seen all that as a slot, you know, we’ve seen him do all of that. Kyle Hamilton could probably do everything but line up at nose tackle. I mean, that’s literally, I think he could do all that. I mean, that’s how talented and and how versatile he is. So, you know, this secondary is deep, I’m optimistic, but that’s also acknowledging you need Marlon Humphrey to stay on the field, you know, even if it’s not peak Marlon Humphrey from five years ago in terms of his play, even last year, when he was on the field, Marlon Humphrey wasn’t bad, you know, he did not have a bad season. I reject that. If you go back and look, he played pretty darn well when he was on the field, but he missed about half the season with injuries. You can’t have that same with Marcus Williams, you know, with him on the back end. So I think they have done a good job addressing their depth by adding Eddie Jackson and drafting Nate Wiggins, who probably isn’t going to play a ton on Monday night, but I fully expect him to play a lot as the year goes on, because I think he’s that talented. I think they’re that excited about him. But you have, you know, you go three or four deep at corner, you go three or four deep at safety. I think our Darius Washington is another, you know, under the below the radar chess piece that’s going to move around, and could also be, you know, a sneaky good player for them and some sub packages. So I’m optimistic about the secondary, you know, and if there’s one question I have about the defense, yeah, it’s, it’s the edge rusher, depth, right? I mean, you have van Noy, you have go away. Then after that, it’s, Hey, what does David ajabo look like? What does tavius Robinson look like? Those guys were healthy and showed some nice things in the preseason, but it’s the preseason. I don’t expect their pass rush to be as good as it was last year, by the way. Yeah. I mean, I think it’s gonna be tight, right? I mean, they have, are they gonna lead the league in sacks again? It’d be tough for me to expect that, right? Especially losing Clowney that said, again, they didn’t lead the league in pass rush last year because jadavion Clowney was all universe. He was really good, but it was still so much about their scheme, so much about the sum of the parts. This defense is such a sum being greater than the parts defense with how they play. It’s such an ensemble effort that I think is going to continue. And I think Trenton Simpson is going to rush the passer in the way that Patrick Queen did on occasion. And queen had, you know, three, four or five sacks in some of his, you know, his last couple seasons with the Ravens. So, you know, it’s going to be the much of the same. I think Zach or has a very similar DNA to Mike McDonald in how he wants to play defense. I don’t think it’s necessarily going to be hiccup free, but I still expect this defense to be really good, and I think come end of the season, can I am I going to predict them to win the Triple Crown again, meaning they lead the league and points allowed, turnovers and sacks? No, I’m not a. Expecting that again, do I expect them to be a top five defense when it’s all said and done, assuming they stay healthy? I absolutely expect that. So it’s going to look a little different. Again. You got to fill the void of Clowney. You got to fill the void of Geno stone, Eddie Jackson, I think, is, you know, on paper, looks promising to be able to do that. You know, even if he’s not going to lead the AFC in picks like Geno Stone did last year. But there’s still so much to like about this defense, and I only mentioned them in passing. But Mata BK, again, the newly renamed namdi. Mata BK, you know, is he gonna have 13 sacks again? That’s ambitious. But do I expect him to continue to be an absolute force rushing the passer from the interior. Yeah, and I’ll give you the other guy. I haven’t mentioned his name yet. Remember this, and I’m not the only one who’s made this prediction, but the guy that I think with their front seven, the guy that I really expect to take a step forward, I think Travis Jones, is going to be a way bigger part of what they’re doing, even in passing situations. I think you’re going to see, and we started seeing this as, right? Yeah, I think as the year went on, last year, you started to see more and more of this. But I think when you see them get into nickel and dime, they’re interior rushers. Michael Pierce going to come off the field, you know, it’s not going to be Brent urban, it’s not going to be Broderick Washington, it’s going to be Matt a BK, and it’s going to be Travis Jones. And I’m not saying Travis Jones going to have 10 sacks. Let me be clear on that. I’m not expecting anything crazy, but I think you’re going to see him become more and more of a household name as part of this defense, and would not at all be shocked if he’s, you know, and I think the depth chart even lifts lists him as the starter, as the five technique, which he’s not really always going to line up in that spot, necessarily, but he is someone that they can move around the defensive front. And I think he’s someone that they have some, some really high hopes for. And I think quietly, you know, didn’t necessarily have the big splash plays, but I think his first couple years, I think you saw good things from Travis Jones, and think they’re really expecting him to to maybe not break, not break out, like Matt abigay did last year, but maybe the year before, when Mada BK had a really good season, not a pro ball season, but a good season, I could definitely see Travis Jones being that guy for them up front. And if he does that, then that’s going to make that collective pass rush that much better. You get that heat up the middle. You making a quarterback move his feet from from interior pressure, then, boy, things become that much easier for those edge guys to get home. Luke
Nestor Aparicio 27:29
Jones is here. He will be there at Camden Yards all weekend. We will be monitoring all things chiefs and ravens, of course, the Raiders next week. Luke, I know you’re going to find this hard to believe, but like, they’re gonna play more games after Thursday night. I mean, they’re actually Friday really, that Brazil Friday night, I got your peacock right here on that. My wife’s like, we’re gonna watch the game, right? I’m like, where are we going? Just Costas have peacock? Who’s got peacock? Yeah, you know the rest of the division. I mean, I hadn’t even looked at any. I guess this is the funny Steelers play in Atlanta. Well, for me, I’m like, Sunday. I’m trying to figure out, like, do I have the red zone anymore? Do I have to give them money? Who? Where are the games to CBS still have games? You know, does Fox still have games? Steelers, falcons at one o’clock, patriots, Bengals at one o’clock. And when I think of patriots, I’m like, oh, yeah, they’re not the Patriots anymore. And then, and then the Browns play the four o’clock game against the Cowboys, 425 game. And we’ll see the Cowboys in two weeks as well the rest of the division and the rest of the league. And you know, Aaron Rodgers is going to San Francisco on Monday night, and the rams are going to play the lions. We’ll have the Stafford bowl on Sunday night. They’ve laid this out, but there’s gonna be a lot of football even after the Ravens play on Sunday night. Where are you on the rest of the league? We’re seeing the two best teams on Thursday night. We know, like, it’s like none of the other teams in the league matter, other than the chiefs in the
Luke Jones 28:56
Ravens. Yeah. I mean, I think rest little, and I’ll probably stick to the AFC more so, you know, NFC 40 Niners are still there. I mean, obviously they’ve had some weird things happen, you know, even off the field with their first round pick, with the shooting and but, you know, I’ll get inside, you know, Trent Williams, his situation. I mean, it’s didn’t sign with the Steelers. I’m just No, he did not. He did not, despite some reports that were out there on social media at a couple different points. Different points, you know. But, you know, I think in the AFC, it’s still ravens chiefs. I think until they prove otherwise, I think the bills, it feels like the bills have taken a step back with some of what they’ve lost. You know, even some of their injuries. They lost Matt Milano, their star linebacker, again to an injury. Sounds like he’s going to be out till late in the season. Um, you know, I don’t think the bills are falling, falling off the face of the earth, but they’ve got a lot to prove. I mean, we’ve talked about wide receivers in this town, how many years? But you know, you lose Stefan Diggs and Gabe Davis the. You know Keon Coleman, you know other you know, they’ve got Shakira, who I think’s interesting, but it’s a lot of question marks there. But they still have Josh Allen, and he’s still one of the three or four best quarterbacks in football. So I’m not that’s a tough game for us next later in the month. Of course, of course, absolutely, especially if the offensive line is, you know, as we’ve talked about at length, that will continue to talk about the old cowboys,
Nestor Aparicio 30:19
bills, bangles, back to back to back, you know, like I keep saying, if they’re four and one, when the Ravens start playing playoffs, it’s going to be an unbelievable start. Three and two, it’s still decent, yeah, you know, but it starts with Thursday night. But this, the Ravens have the tough schedule this year, I think, well,
Luke Jones 30:39
they had the first place schedule. And you know, that lends itself into talking about the team I was going to mention next, the Cincinnati Bengals. Joe burrows back and healthy. I think they have the last place schedule, which look and you know this, I’m not explaining this to you. You know this difference between a first place schedule and his last, last place schedule is a couple games, right? It’s a couple games. But if you think the ravens and the Bengals are relatively similar in terms of their aptitude and potential in 2024 a couple games could be the difference of who wins the division and who’s the wild card. There
Nestor Aparicio 31:12
are a couple games against Kansas City and Buffalo and you know, that’s kind of how this works,
Luke Jones 31:16
right? Exactly. So I think the Bengals are really interesting on that front. I think they fortified their defense a little bit, especially at safety, you know, Geno stone being part of that solution for them. Do I think Gino is going to be a pro bowl safety for them? No, you know, I think part of him leading the AFC and interceptions last year was, it was kind of a perfect storm kind of deal. But hey, he’s a good we mentioned the ensemble in the symphony of the short no doubt. But I think what’s interesting, if you’re looking for to me the caution flag, so to speak, for the Bengals, one Joe burrow has got to stay healthy in the same way that Lamar Jackson has to stay healthy. Amazingly, the last four years, you know, since burrow entered the league, there has not been a season yet where those two quarterbacks, the two star quarterbacks in the AFC north, have both been healthy at the end of the year. You know, what are the others been out? I
Nestor Aparicio 32:04
don’t want to see a borough Jackson player match up like we saw Raven Steelers forever. Yeah. I
Luke Jones 32:08
mean, that’d be great, right? I mean, it’s a budding rivalry that’s just lacking that at this point in time. But what I think’s fascinating, and what’s interesting to watch T Higgins on the franchise tag Jamar Chase. It’s been a weird summer with him, like this. Hold in thing. He wants a new contract. Zach Zach Taylor said about what, a week to 10 days ago, like that, everything was fine, and he’s ready to go. And then suddenly he’s not on the practice field. I mean it, you know, it’s dicey.
Nestor Aparicio 32:36
It’s the Brown family too.
Luke Jones 32:38
I was just, you literally took the words out of my mouth, it’s Mike Brown. So that’s, you know, if there’s something about the Bengals that could make things weird for them, you know, it’s certainly that, because you have two legitimate number one wide receivers. I mean, T Higgins is their number two, but he’s a number one in 25 of the other 32 teams in the NFL. I mean, he’s that good. He’s legit number one. He’s a fantastic player. But so there’s that. So with the Bengals, I think this division for me, and I’d say this, you know, it probably comes across as disrespectful, but a quarterback situation, this division is still the haves and the have nots. It’s Lamar Jackson and Joe burrow, and then it’s whatever the browns and the Steelers are going to get out of their quarterbacks. I think they have good rosters. I think the Browns have a really good roster overall. But what the heck is Deshaun Watson at this point? You know, is a shoulder healthy, even if it is, is he going to ever be anything close to what he was four or five years ago? I mean, this guy was a top five, top six, top seven, kind of quarterback in football, five, four years ago. Yeah, yeah, exactly last time he ran around and looked like Lamar. It’s at least three years. I mean, you know, and his high water mark for the Browns has been his second half in Baltimore last year, and that’s when he entered his shoulder. It was out for the year then. So I don’t trust that even opening
Nestor Aparicio 33:59
the door for Joseph Vincent Flacco, yes. Well,
Luke Jones 34:03
he’s in Indianapolis now, I know, yeah, yeah. But well,
Nestor Aparicio 34:06
because they couldn’t stand, I mean, you know, like, I mean quarterback, he could be Jameis Winston, yeah, he the fact that the Browns didn’t bring Flacco back is shameful on them, you know, like they sort of acquiesced to the quarterback situation there because he couldn’t have handled it. But
Luke Jones 34:24
I hear you, but at the same time, I mean, it’s a two, $30 million guaranteed contract to their franchise quarterback. I mean, he’s playing right at least through this year, you know? I mean, if it changes after that, then then that’s got an $11
Nestor Aparicio 34:39
million close you’ve already written off.
Luke Jones 34:43
That’s not even, that’s not even the same question,
Nestor Aparicio 34:45
if you want to win, or do you not if you want to win, you don’t play. Deshaun Watson,
Luke Jones 34:51
Joe Flacco is not taking anyone. I hear you.
Nestor Aparicio 34:54
I you know, I’m going to defend Joe while I’m working. Look, I
Luke Jones 34:56
love Joe like and look, he’s in Indianapolis. Mean, if Anthony Richardson gets kids, if it goes like it did last year, Joe’s gonna be playing by week three in Indy. So, but the browns, you know what the heck is to Sean Watson at this point? What is going on there? You know? I mean, if he doesn’t have to be a top five quarterback for them to be a playoff team, can he be average? If he can be average, they’ll probably be in the playoffs. If he’s not average, then, who knows? And then with Pittsburgh, I think it. I think Russell Wilson’s on borrowed time. I think Justin fields is going to be the starting quarterback there. And I’m not saying Justin fields is going to be great, either, but they’re in the same position they’ve been in since the end of the Roethlisberger era, seven and 10 team, right? Six and six there. I mean, you say that, but, but out of reverence to, in respect to Mike Tomlin, there’ll be seven, so it’ll be nine and eight, right? Or there’ll be, you know, there’ll be nine and eight, and they’ll be there with looking for the last wild card. But I think the roster otherwise is pretty good. Wide receivers, question mark. You know, certainly some question marks, but by and large, that’s a roster that if they had a legit franchise quarterback, you’d be talking about them, maybe not at exactly at the same level as the ravens and Bengals, but close, but until they’ve got the quarterbacks thing figured out. You know, that’s why I said haves and have nots. And when I say have nots. I don’t mean that the bit that the browns and the Steelers can’t be one of the three wild cards, but I mean serious Super Bowl contender ravens and the Bengals are both that browns and Steelers are not so. But that said, Hey, if you’re the Ravens right now, they play Pittsburgh in in Pittsburgh, november 17. I almost said Heinz Field, whatever it’s called aftershore Stadium, or whatever they’re calling it these days. And then they play home. A cookie when they let you in, please get and then they play, they play home against Pittsburgh week 16, you know, so december 21 you know that Saturday, that Saturday game before their Wednesday game, ravens. Ravens are on a losing streak against Pittsburgh. You got to figure that out. I mean, you want to talk about the what in the world is going on, kind of scenario that you talk about with the Ravens the last few years. It’s how they have not beaten Pittsburgh. Because this, I don’t think the Steelers are very good. I haven’t thought that for
Nestor Aparicio 37:19
well, Lamar hasn’t played that game Half the time, right? But even
Luke Jones 37:23
when he has, like, remember the early October game, which, by the way, Lamar he threw the pick intended for Beckham at the end of that game. But up until that point, Lamar played a really good football team, and his receivers, you, you’re the one who tosses out the word disgraceful a lot, not, you know, that’s not in terms of describing a performance the receivers in that game that was a disgraceful performance because of how many they dropped, but, but that’s what’s that’s what’s happened against the the Steelers in recent years. I mean, even more so. And it’s always been a weird rivalry with unexpected things happening. I know that. I know the Raven Steelers history. But the last few years, it’s been even weirder, in that sense, in the way that that early October game last year where Lamar did play the Ravens should have beaten them by 17 points at a minimum, and somehow, somehow you left them in the game and then you let Kenny Pickett throw one over Marlon umphrey’s head. I mean, just inexplicable. They got to knock the Ravens. Got to knock that bracket off. If you want to be number one seed again, if you want to beat the Bengals in this division, gotta beat the Pittsburgh Steelers. I mean, come on now, enough is enough on that front. So I don’t care who’s playing, whether it’s Russell Wilson or Justin fields at quarterback, you better beat the Steelers this year, because I just, they’re not that good, they’re not terrible. Let’s be clear. They’re not that good, in my opinion. So at some point it’s like, knock that off and you’re right. You know, I’m not even, let’s be clear when I’m talking about this, I’m not talking about the week, week 18 game. Who cares about that? That, that I’m not talking about, I’m talking about the October game. I’m talking about the two games, you know, the game previous, you know, in the previous season, where, you know, you look at that and you just say, Wait, how are you guys losing to the Steelers again? You know, when Lamar is playing, like, how’s that happen? Well, having Lamar
Nestor Aparicio 39:14
upright at Thanksgiving would be huge. Yeah. I mean, yeah. I
Luke Jones 39:17
mean, sure, sure. So, by the way, I looked
Nestor Aparicio 39:20
up disgraceful, because I’m an old school writer, right? Like I’m having a reunion of my sports first colleagues from 40 years ago to be 40 years on September 21 that sports first from the news American folded. I was my first job. I was 15 years old. Lots of legendary people, Bernie miklas, Jeff Gordon, people that went on to great, great things in the sports writing world, Barry Levine, John Hawkins at golf, all of these folks. I’ve invited them all back, and I used to have a thesaurus on my desk. Was actually Sandy McKees desk, and at the 501 North Calvert street, and I would always look for the right word. You know what I mean, because I’m a writer and just. Graceful is a word that you have now, but forget sports. Forget the ravens, the word disgraceful. I looked it up. It says, Here, Donald Trump. No, it doesn’t say that. It says, shockingly, unacceptable. Okay, I mean, that’s disgraceful is a word that maybe has taken on a bad connotation, shockingly unacceptable, shocking. It’s kind of like Chad Steele, disgraceful. Greg Bader, disgraceful. Everybody involved with the Ravens you no longer speaks to me after 30 years. Disgraceful. I call it that. Shockingly unacceptable. It’s shockingly unacceptable. So anytime I say disgraceful, I just want you to fill in shockingly on it, because that sounds a lot nicer. That’s shockingly unacceptable. Well, that’s That’s disgraceful. Oh, my God, it sounds murderous. So disgraceful is a really good word, because it speaks your eyes open. You say that’s shockingly unacceptable. That’s disgraceful,
Luke Jones 41:02
I gotcha. And look, I wasn’t criticizing you. I’m just saying that’s a word that you use a lot in describing poor performance on the field. It’s not a,
Nestor Aparicio 41:09
I guess, my call Adley rutschman offense disgraceful the way. It’s shockingly unacceptable. I am shocked and it’s unacceptable. I understand what
Luke Jones 41:20
you’re saying, but I think there are other ways to to me. Disgraceful is jaking in, like, if Jay fair enough, that’s the word okay. And I would say disgraceful is. Disgraceful is like, off the field or behavior legal, you know, breaking the law, athletes doing lowbrow things executives don’t that’s that’s what I but it’s fine. I was just saying to you, I was actually just borrowing your word to show how outraged I was gonna
Nestor Aparicio 41:51
use the word discrimination this week, right? And when I bring discrimination up, every old white guy as a Hispanic guy, no, you’ll let you in because you’re not Venezuela. Then why don’t they let me in? So that I looked up discrimination. I actually did this for an old white guy partner of mine this week who was saying, you can’t say discrimination. Well, you can when you’re Hispanic and they don’t let you in and you’re the only Hispanic journalist in the history of the city, they’ll let it. But the real definition of discrimination is recognition and understanding of the difference between one thing and another That’s discrimination to be discriminate so they recognize and understand that you’re a professional journalist and I’m not, so that’s it. So it is funny with words that you use, words I use, disgraceful and discrimination do disses this week, I’ve been dissed a lot lately. Maybe I should change my name to dis Nestor instead of Sir Nestor. But you know, words, words matter, and I I appreciate that you made me look up disgraceful, to make sure that I really was using it right, and I am using discrimination absolutely perfectly for everybody out there. So I am a wordsmith. I don’t like to get it wrong, and I was graceful is a strong word. I and I agree with you, in a sports on the field disgraceful is you don’t try right? I would agree with that, right, right, and again, you can.
Luke Jones 43:08
I wasn’t suggesting you use it incorrectly or anything like that. I was just saying that’s a word that you use more frequently in that forum than I do. But I was, I was borrowing that word to show you how outraged I was with how the Ravens receivers play outrage, outrage. Outrage is a word everybody. Everybody’s
Nestor Aparicio 43:25
outraged about everything. Let me look up outrage with the actual definition to that is outraged about every action of anger, shock or indignation. There you go. All right, good words,
Luke Jones 43:38
I would say, in this day and age, especially when you look at social media, whether talking sports, politics, whatever walk of life we’re talking about, outrage is used so frequently that it’s no longer actually outrage, because it’s just become the norm. It’s just, I’ve got some
Nestor Aparicio 43:52
synonyms that start to use a front insult. Offended. I am offended by you. Chris Allman, I’m insulted by you. Greg Bader, I’m affronted by you. Chad’s sister, affronted. I’m affronted that. That’s it there. There’s a college word for you. Um, outrage. That’s the word though. Luke, you know, we’re both writers. We have the best words. I have the best words of any word. So we’ll, we’ll get done. We got a lot of fun this week. This is, yeah, this is you and I’ve known each other a long, long time. This is when it gets to be fun, when we have this giant game on Thursday night with a giant outcome that you have to stuff on for 10 days before you get to beat the Raiders. And everybody has a party around here, we hope. And the baseball thing, it’s just been, it’s been as good a year for sports this year, and especially a year to meet for me, to be locked out, which I’m writing about, and I’m I will remain outraged by that, and disgusted and disgraced and all that other thing. But this has been a great, great, great year to be a Baltimore sport. Sports, man, and I think Thursday night is something because of the loss eight months ago people are looking for because there’s been so much baseball and ups and downs and where the Orioles are. And look, this would be even less fun if yours had a 12 game lead right now, to some degree, because it wouldn’t be interesting from that perspective. It’d be easier from the fan base. Yeah. But there are bumps in the road in this journey on the baseball side and whatever the football team’s going to do. Football team’s already had its bump in the road. They ran the ball three times and got their ass kicked at home in an AFC Championship game this year, and they have to figure out how to get through that. But this is, this is so much more fun than being, let’s say the Miami Marlins and the Miami Dolphins, or pick any city, Philadelphia, yeah, pick any city. We’re having as much fun right now being sports fans, and we just invested $1.2 billion of our money. And if I were a real report, I’d actually ask these people what they’re doing with the money. But this is a great, great, great anticipation of sports on the front end of this football game Thursday night for me and October, I’m
Luke Jones 46:04
so glad you mentioned that, because, and I’m working on this at Baltimore positive.com right now, in terms of trying to contextualize what I think Thursday night’s game actually means for the Baltimore Ravens. Because, you know, it’s week one, all that, you know, and we’ve been over that. But the term that I used is this was a really excruciating off season for the Ravens. Ravens, they’re fans, just in trying to live with what happened in late January, right? So you have that. You have the Orioles with these last two months of struggles being what they’ve been. But I’m so glad you brought this up, because enjoy the journey. The expectations for both teams right now are really high, and I get it doesn’t mean the rape doesn’t mean the Orioles are going to make a deep October run. Doesn’t mean the ravens are going to go to the Super Bowl this year. But when you have expectations like this for both teams, boy, it’s been fleeting. I I’ve been in sports media now. I’ve known you since 2009 2012 which the Orioles were a surprise Cinderella team. That year, Ravens won the Super Bowl. 2014 Orioles were on their way to winning their first division title since 97 and the Ravens, you know, we’re still two years removed from the Super Bowl, Gary kubiaki, or all that. So I’ll give that year, you know, by 16, I think the ravens, you know, we’re in the playoff hunt, but you know, certainly were more mediocre than elite. The Orioles were kind of winding down the buck Dan Duquette era. And then we know the Orioles were horrendous. From 17 through 21 covid was in there. But now, the last two years, you’ve had the Orioles, last year on the way to being the best team in the American League, and the Ravens having the best team in the NFL in the regular season. Now, October and January, respectively, did not turn out the way you wanted it to. And now, back to back years, these teams are still in that stratosphere. You know whether the Ravens or whether the Orioles are going to win the division or not, whether the ravens are going to be the number one seed again or not. They’re in that conversation. Boy, enjoy the journey. This is fun. It’s fun. I know the offensive lines nerve wracking right now, but this is fun. I know the bullpen and the injuries are nerve wracking for the Orioles right now, but this is fun. Let’s, let’s make sure we’re seeing the forest for the trees here. In understanding just how good Baltimore sports fans have it right now doesn’t mean it’s perfect. Doesn’t mean expectations aren’t there. Doesn’t mean that you can’t be frustrated on, you know, on a given night or a given week. But boy, we we’ve all sat through and lived through lean years, especially on the baseball side. So for the ravens to be kicking off Thursday night on the heels of disappointing finish, but a 13 and four season nonetheless, and the Orioles to be right there with the Yankees for the not just the Al east, but the American League lead Boy, these are these are good times, and we’ll see what happens moving forward. But enjoy the journey, because if it’s all about the outcome, then, boy, that’s being a sports fan is not much fun. If the outcome is the only validation you get for all of the hours we all put into this in some shape or form,
Nestor Aparicio 49:19
whether it’s watching on TV, or whether it’s actually doing your job. Have fun. Enjoy the games for everybody out there. Luke’s going to be monitoring. I’m going to be monitoring. We’re going to be working. I’m going to be writing. It’s an interesting fall of sports here, with Ruben splash and bashati and Team Elias and team DaCosta trying to bring us parades down Pratt Street. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We are W, N, S T AM, 1570 TAs in Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive.
