Mired in last place in the AL East with the trade deadline looming and the MLB Draft this weekend, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the overall pitching depth of the Baltimore Orioles and how the franchise will get armed for a real pennant race in the future. It’s going to take a better effort and whole lot of money.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Orioles’ pitching depth and potential trades. They highlighted the struggles of starting pitcher Sagano, who has given up 13 runs in his last two starts, and questioned his long-term viability. They debated the value of Dean Kramer, who has two more years of club control, and the potential trade of Colton Cowser for a pitcher like Sandy Alcantara. They also mentioned the importance of acquiring pitching talent, with Nestor German being a notable prospect. Ryan O’Hearn’s potential trade value and his upcoming Home Run Derby participation were also discussed.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, pitching depth, trade deadline, Dean Kramer, Ryan O’Hearn, Kyle Bradish, Grayson Rodriguez, Mike Elias, minor league prospects, starting rotation, injury issues, baseball strategy, offseason plans, team rebuilding, fan expectations.
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Speaker 1, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T am 1570 towns in Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive this will be Luke Jones. Is summer getaway. But before we go away, we got to talk some baseball. And while he’s away, we’re going to be doing the Maryland crab cake tour twice, just to get even for all the pizza he’s going to be in the Wildwood. Will be at deepest squales and Canton on Tuesday. Really looking forward to that. Joe Giordano is going to join us early in the morning. Joe and Dominica, like the folks that run the joint, are going to be there. Darren is going to bring me sausage. Pete Karen, she has threatened to bring the soccer rule against from island town up. And also Dan Rogers going to come by. We’re going to talk about Italian food and Portuguese food, probably wine, and I don’t know, journalism, something like that. Also, on Thursday afternoon, we will be Acosta centimonium For the very first time at the new racetrack location in the grandstand. And I’ll be getting the crab Imperial, something something, and probably some oysters. I will not be betting at the OTB, but you can, and I am betting on Johnny, oh, joining us, our congressman, as well as a 2pm Steve. Rouse is going to be coming by old, legendary morning show host who I’ve never chatted with or I was never on their show, and they were never on my show did 98 rock a lot. Never did QSR. Now one Oh, 5.7 the fan. So this guy here, I’m a fan of his. He’s a fan of New Jersey beaches. At some point he could explain to me I wound up in Wildwood, not Ocean City, I have no idea, but he’ll be gone next week, and just the time, dude, I was thinking about this as I was getting my Zeke’s coffee here this morning, getting ready for resig and I to do the breakfast thing later on in the month with other deposed and fired cartoonist of the Baltimore Sun. I was thinking, I need a week off from baseball. You know, I was thinking about this after the game. I was thinking, I might not watch a whole lot of the Mets next week or the Marlin, I don’t know. I say that, and then my wife said, what time you Orioles play? That’s not exactly how she says it. She has another word for them that she uses, but I don’t know, man, or you’re gonna, you don’t watch baseball when you’re gone, right? Like you’re gonna take off. Please tell me you’re not gonna watch a last place, awful team next week. Please tell me you’re
Luke Jones 02:20
just off. I will check the scores, and that’s about it. I mean, if something special is happening, like, if there’s something where someone has a chance to hit three home runs, or there’s a no hitter, or something like that, I’ll bring it up on my
Nestor Aparicio 02:32
phone. If it’s something, oh, my God, you better give me the coach and the W, N, S T text, because they, you know, no other thing you brought it
Luke Jones 02:38
up. Yeah, right, right. But yeah, I mean, it’s look team is
Nestor Aparicio 02:43
what it is. They didn’t score again on Wednesday, and they didn’t score again
Luke Jones 02:47
and they got lousy starting pitching. I mean, saganos completely lost at this point in time, right? I mean, it’s well,
Nestor Aparicio 02:55
he was always on the edge, and we talked about that beginning. He was going to have to have a charm Scott McGregor, life, in order to, you know, not miss bats. And in modern baseball, and the fatigue part and the major league part and the heat, I mean, there’s just, there’s a lot going into it, much like Suarez, my Venezuelan brother, you know, you get a little older, he had thrown over in the Asian League, just, there’s a lot of innings, you know, just a lot of innings there is.
Luke Jones 03:24
And we talked about that. And look, let me be clear, this is not me saying that he can’t figure it back out. But I’d be lying to you if I said I was completely shocked that we’ve seen this regression now. The last two starts have been extreme, right? He’s given up 13 runs over the last two starts. That’s that’s on the extreme side, but it’s what you just said, when you have someone even with an assortment of six pitches, but you can’t miss bats consistently. You just have such a small margin for error. And we talked about that back in April and May. And you know, when he had a three year era, I was giving him credit, but there was always going to be a time where the league figures you out the you have to be, first of all, very sharp with your command. And he hasn’t been that, right? He hasn’t been as sharp. It’s not like he’s walking a bunch of guys, but you’re seeing that he’s not dotting the catcher’s glove when he was at his absolute best. So you have that. And you know, you kind of look at pitch sequencing tendencies, things of that nature, which is on him and the and the pitching coaches and the entire staff to kind of, you know, the first pitch swinging on him, right? Well, I mean, they can be, but I mean it’s just, I mean he just, he even go back to when he gave up the two run single that turned it into a five nothing game in the fourth inning. I mean, he had gotten two strikeouts runners at second and third. Ezekiel Duran, the number nine hitter, was up, and he couldn’t get out of it, right? I mean, there’s two outs when he gave up the three run homer too, right, right? So, I mean, it’s just not good enough. I mean, it’s not and he’d be the first to tell you that. I mean, he’s 35 years old. He’s pitched for a long time. Um, he, I’m sure he had periods of time in Japan when he struggled, right? I mean, that’s, that’s baseball. So now he might have
Nestor Aparicio 05:06
been a better pitcher seven years ago for stuff, right? Sure,
Luke Jones 05:10
and that’s, that’s a natural, uh, expectation to have. So he’s got to figure this out. And that doesn’t mean he won’t, but as we’ve kind of talked, talked about with Zach Eflin, who’s now on the IL The clock’s ticking. I mean, we’re four weeks from the trade deadline. Is anyone going to even want Sagano at this point in time? I mean, that’s, that’s the big question, right? So,
Nestor Aparicio 05:29
yeah, these guys might be coming back to pitch them in the fourth place in September or something,
Luke Jones 05:34
right? I mean, it might, that might be how it is. I mean, right now, and we’ve talked about this, the irony of their starting rotation. You think back to April who were the biggest problems, Charlie Morton and Dean Kramer. Right now, I’d say those are the two guys who might have the most appeal from a trade deadline standpoint. Now,
Nestor Aparicio 05:50
would you deal Kramer? It’s tough. I never said nothing about that. We talked a lot. People killing me on cows are in half these other guys, but I don’t know. I’m wearing his hair today, by the way, I’m honoring Dean Kramer. So you can all see,
Luke Jones 06:05
I think it’s tough, because, again, this is where we get into what do you want the Orioles to be next year? What do you want them to strive for? I would venture to to argue, you know, I would be apt to argue that Dean Kramer probably is more valuable to the Orioles. If you’re talking about next year, in the year you’re after,
Nestor Aparicio 06:22
you could do worse than have him on the team in March. You better have somebody. You
Luke Jones 06:26
better have somebody. And that’s what I’m saying. I mean, if, and let me be clear, if there’s a team out there that loves Deaton Kramer and they say, Okay, we could use this guy now, and we’re over the moon about the fact that he has two more years of club control, and we want to give the Orioles a really nice package for him. And don’t get me wrong, I’m not, I’m not being unrealistic here, but my point is, it’s gonna have to take a lot for me to to part with Dean Kramer, because he’s got two more years of club control. And yes, he’s not a number one, he’s not a number two, he’s not a number three.
Nestor Aparicio 06:56
He’s the kind of pitcher they’re trying to trade to get that’s that’s
Luke Jones 06:59
kind of my point. I mean, I’ve said this to you, and you know, it’s, it’s somewhat facetious. I’m not saying this to be literal, but, but I kind of am, from the standpoint of, if they had five Dean Kramers right now, they’d be better than 12 games under 500 right now. That doesn’t mean they’d be in first place.
Nestor Aparicio 07:16
Yeah. But you’re, you’re also projecting Richmond sitting the ball, and Westbrook’s healthy, you know what? I mean, they could, you’re right. They could win 90 games with five Dean Kramers and southern potentiality of what they’re doing that was kind of, that’s false advertising, right?
Luke Jones 07:33
And that’s fine, but, but I’m just saying that’s how bad the rotation has been. So, so you’re going to trade away someone else. I mean, who’s going to be in your rotation next year? I mean, are you really going to add three or four starters? I’ll buy two, maybe three,
Nestor Aparicio 07:49
if you’re selling me anybody into 2027 that’s going to be 27 not next year, two years from now, that’s going to be in a major league roster and contributing in a massive way. I’ll take Henderson and holiday I’ll take westburg Just because I like him. But all the rest of these guys are a bag of donuts. To me, they’re, I mean, it is star. I mean, like, I mean literally, they’re just middling midline players that from replacement value on statistically, Laureano is a better player than cows or than any of these outfielders, other than Stowers at this point. And I would say, Dean Kramer, you’d love to do better, but what’s it going to cost you to buy Dean Kramer? You know, like I, I keep going back to, you want to buy pitching, I kind of want to finagle trading for pitching in some way. I think the stocks down across the board for almost everybody in their organization, not named holiday and Henderson, right? Like stock would be down to sell on anybody the guys that you still make a good
Luke Jones 08:59
time to trade them. It’s,
Nestor Aparicio 09:01
not. I mean, it’s just not, it’s not. And now it’s a good time to fortify your number three starters and pray. And your plan is to spend money bags as money in the off season, mine’s to somehow figure out how you wound up with Corbin burns and Zach effluent to begin with, right and figure out like, and even Trevor Rogers, for as much as we’ve all hated that trade, right at this point, he figures to be their number four starter on opening day next year, right? Kind of,
Luke Jones 09:34
sort of, I mean, somewhere in there, I I’m not really in the business right now of ranking these guys. To me, it’s like, okay, Bradish, should be there next year. Is it going to be number one starter? Bradish? I have no idea, but he should be in that mix.
Nestor Aparicio 09:48
You want to put a stable together. I just want to put a floor in I just want to build a floor in the house.
Luke Jones 09:55
But isn’t that? You know that kind of goes hand in hand, though. Give me five guys. Guys that I feel I can compete with, and then let them duke it out for who’s the number one, the number two, the number three. And again, they’re going to have to go get a couple guys, right? I mean, obviously, you know that that’s the captain obvious statement, so but, but it’s just yeah, I mean, to answer your question with Kramer. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not sitting here saying, oh, there’s no way I trade Dean Kramer. I’m not crazy at the same time, I’m not trading him just for the sake of doing it, because there is still value to what he brings, and I get it. Anyone listening to like, ah, Dean Kramer stinks. You know, overrated. This guy’s not a number one or number two agreed. Like, I don’t think he stinks. I think he’s a league average starting pitcher, which even really gonna cost them 18 million a year in a three year deal. I mean, maybe not 18, but it’s real money. Dude Chicano
Nestor Aparicio 10:45
cost him 18. You know, excellent, costing him 18. All these guys are $20 million starters.
Luke Jones 10:50
I mean, whether it’s 20 or it’s real money, right? I mean, you know, we don’t need to get into valuation, because, you know, we’re just speaking
Nestor Aparicio 10:56
well, then we’re going to go into, we’re going to go into payroll, and we’re going to go into where extensions are for all the big guns, because everybody wants them to give holiday a quarter of a billion now and like, I mean, and there’s nobody at the stadium, and there’s no revenue stream, and they’re not selling Madison, and nobody beyond leg. Mason is lined up. They should call money bags over to M T Bank, who I ran into last week, see if he can give some money. I don’t know. I mean, for me, you are correct in that these pieces they had that might have gotten them, a relief pitcher for next year, a complimentary outfielder, another urea, sir Mateo, I’m just making that up. They don’t need another catcher. They need one now. They’re working on five for a last place team, but you’d like to think between basayo and rushman next year they’d have a catcher. I don’t think they should have to be thinking about that. So, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching, pitching. You know, the drafts in 10 days, pitching. And where are they getting this? And you’re right, they’re gonna have to spend money on it one way or another. I mean, even if they acquire a deal, they’re gonna have to spend money, yeah, because it’s going to be on somebody’s docket, because that’s the way this works, if you have pitching. But I’m with you, dude, give me some 2930 year old pitchers that are middling. Give me a couple of years ago is Ryan Gibson, you know, Kyle Gibson’s, and maybe they can make that fly. But waiting on broken pitchers, waiting on Bradish, waiting on Rodriguez, daddy, ain’t got no time for that patience. You know, I’m not I. I’ve sat around waiting for pitchers. You know, no, I I’m not ready. I’m not ready to put Bradish or Rodriguez into my stable next March and say those are two of my six. Those better be two of my 10.
Luke Jones 12:55
I mean, okay, you’re, honestly, you’re way too pessimistic on Kyle Bradish right now. I mean, Tommy John surgery isn’t what it was 40 years ago. Man. I mean, like and again. That’s not me saying that he’s going to be peak pre injury. What fourth and Cy Young voting? But I don’t think it’s, I don’t think it’s out of bounds to project Kyle Bradish is one of their five starting pitchers. I just stole now, okay? Grayson Rodriguez, that’s a different story, right? Because he’s had these recurring lad injuries. They still haven’t, you know, according to how he spoke the last time, still hasn’t fully identified what’s causing it, in terms of whether it’s something in his training regimen that he needs to do or stop doing, or anything like that. So I’m, I’m with you on being broker
Nestor Aparicio 13:42
chips, though, right? But they’re really not, you know, I mean, right now they’re not.
Luke Jones 13:45
And look, yeah, and let me be clear in what I’m saying, I don’t disagree with your overall premise. As far as needing a stable of nine or 10 arms, that’s every team,
Nestor Aparicio 13:56
and they read the organization on in the off season this year. And look
Luke Jones 14:00
at what happened, but you know, but you know what? In in a little bit of fairness, fair a little bit, they even their depth options got hurt. A lot of guys got hurt. Trevor Rogers got hurt before spring training. Albert Suarez got hurt the first series of the season. And Suarez was, like, the durable guy, yeah, right. Suarez was going to be the guy that was going to be the horse to come out of the pen in the sixth inning and bridge the gap, and if someone got hurt, he was probably going to move into the Rotate, right? So you called
Nestor Aparicio 14:26
him a horse. I mean, literally, that’s what we thought of him as a veteran.
Luke Jones 14:30
Yeah, so and again, this isn’t me just completely excusing Mike Elias, but there was a plan in place for depth. We even talked about, remember, I even said that it was a bottom heavy rotation going into spring training, because I felt like they had a an assortment of number four, number five options, that they were just kind of back filling the rotation. And it didn’t even work out that if
Nestor Aparicio 14:54
I go back to March 25 or I go back to just you and me going up to Toronto for a couple days, if I find the. Pieces of that, and I somewhere in there, because I’m a dick. Ask anybody I said, How many starts for for Rodriguez, how many starts for this guy, and like McDermott and Povich, in their mind, we’re probably going to make 10 starts this year. 15 starts at the bottom end of the bottom end, right, that they that they thought that that would be the thing. I think that they really believe that Charlie Morton had 27 starts in him. I think they believe that Sugano had 30 starts in him. I think they absolutely believe that Eflin had 32 starts in him. And that’s how you start to pencil this in, and when you start to work it backward, and you start to fill in this kid they brought up this week and fed him to Grom, you know, like who and who still will be starting games in August and September. If Sugano gets a shutdown or effluent doesn’t come back and just says, I’m not coming back for a last place team. Pay me my 17 million. Let me walk. I’m going to try to get right and catch on with the Giants next year for 8 million. You know? I mean, I That’s how this cyclical pitching and these taxi rides we take that when I run into Jim Palmer once in a generation, which I did, and he’s talking Quay are, and Dobson and McNally and starts, and McGregor and Flanagan and Bucha and stone and Davis and just down the line of Martinez. I mean, all these guys that made 2028, 32 starts a year for chunks of 3458, years at a time. I don’t know what to bet on. And I would say that if I were having the third beer with Elias, I’d say you got a tough freaking job. And Palmer would tell you that if Flanagan were alive, because this is the it’s as unpredictable as the President of the
Luke Jones 16:54
United States. I mean, it’s it’s not easy, but you’ve got to figure it out, right? I mean, he failed this past offseason. I mean, what, what they tried to do didn’t work, and they had bad injury luck on top of that, right? The injuries have always been a big part of where they are, right now, it is. It’s not an excuse. It’s a reality. I mean, they’ve, they’ve had but 24 different guys on the i l this year. This is like the Ravens back in 2021 or go back to the Ravens in 2015 you do get to a point where next man up is a T shirt slogan, and that’s it, right? I mean, you get to a threshold with that. Now that said it would, it would be convenient to say that that’s all it is, because it’s not, it’s not even close to being the only issue with this team, because we’ve talked about it. I mean, to Wednesday night’s a perfect example. Yeah, Sugano was was bad, but they got shut out, right? I mean, we’ve seen their offense underperform to a dramatic degree, even when they’ve had the bulk of their guys that they’re counting on in in the lineups and on their other fifth catchers throwing the ball and right field, right? I mean, you know, I mean, their defense has been poor. You know, we’ve talked about all of these different things, so you need to parcel it out the best way you can, and we’re going to see what’s going to happen at the trade deadline. And maybe this is where we can transition into the one piece of good news from the day, which is Ryan O’Hearn being the star. Sorry, we skipped the lead. No, it’s okay, because Ryan O’Hearn is someone that at this point in time. And I’m not saying that you’re going to get a blockbuster return for him, but I think you can get a nice piece or two for him, and you’re going to let
Nestor Aparicio 18:28
him go win the Home Run Derby even Monday night. Let him go showcase baby. Come on,
Luke Jones 18:32
give him a chance to go win for someone else. I mean, he’s, he’s paid to at the end of this kind of get right? I mean, it’s not, it’s tough, because, you know, he was
Nestor Aparicio 18:42
out of baseball, he was a bum, he was no good. He right, oh, right. Like,
Luke Jones 18:47
yeah, but, well, think about it. The Orioles acquired him for cash. They DFA him three days later. Yeah, this was the off season prior to 2023 it was that January, late December, January, whatever it was, they acquired him for cash, they DFA them. A couple days later, they outrighted him to Norfolk. He had a good spring training, didn’t make the club. Out of spring training, went to Norfolk, and then the Orioles called him up in mid April, something like that, and he’s been very productive for them ever since. So it’s a great story. Happy for him
Nestor Aparicio 19:19
as well. Nerd, were you aware of him as
Luke Jones 19:21
a royal, right? I mean, yeah, a little bit, but he wasn’t like he was, it’s not like he was a top 10 pick or anything like that. I mean, he, you know, he was, he was a guy that they had hopes for and had flashed. I think if you go back and look at his rookie season in a limited sample, he put up some numbers where you say, hey, like, Who’s this kid? But, you know, he just, like a lot of guys, and this is, you know, going back to what you mentioned about Kyle Stowers this, this is why I’m so bullish on playing Kobe mayo and letting this kid play, and let him figure it out, and, and all of that, and, and that’s going to be part of this too, when they presumably trade some guys, you. That you’re going to open up some some runway to to play Kobe mayo or Samuel basayo When they call him up in in August, let’s
Nestor Aparicio 20:08
say, well, the season’s pissed away, right? Like with every one of these shutouts in Dallas that’s pissed away. And you know, once that happens, it becomes every man for himself, and that’s where we talked for an hour earlier this week, and people hear it over the Fourth of July about Elias saving his job. I even taught my wife and I went to Coco’s the other night. Had some cocoa. By the way, that bow thing they had with the blueberry barbecue, insane. Get the CoCo not this weekend. They’re down on Friday and Saturday. Go to the heritage fair, but get the Cocos. But I was in the car, and I said to my wife, I said, I fired Elias on the air today. She said, What? I said, I’m done, I’m done, I’m done, I’m done. I don’t feel any leadership. I’d fire Katie Griggs. I’d fire all of them. I mean, Mr. Moneybags wants to fix the place. Come see me. They’re in the off season. I’ll bring a front office and I’ll bring some people in to care about the community. I’ll bring some people in to fix this, fix the team, let alone fix the baseball team. That’s a whole other story altogether. And I guess in my mind, he’s going to rely on Ripken. A Ripken is going to get blamed for this, for better or worse. And I know maroon doesn’t like hearing that, and Cal doesn’t want to be responsible for anything. Honestly, it’s part of the big gig for last 25 years is, Hey, man, don’t make me pick the baseball guy, then it’s my name’s on it. I’m in it, and I don’t want to be in it. I don’t want to be on Nestor show talking about what we’re doing at Norfolk. You know what I mean? Like I just but at some point, all of this is Elias is running this right now, and I’m not sure he’s going to be in November either. You know what I mean. And I all of the uncertainty beyond all of this, it becomes every man for himself. And I guess that’s my tie in, and not 35 years on the radio way, saying, Go get him. Ryan o’hern, go make your money, bro. Go get your papers. Go sign with the last place team. Go sign with the Miami Marlins four years for 80 million or so. Go get paid. You know,
Luke Jones 21:58
yeah. I mean, he’s not gonna get four years 80 million, but he’s going to get, presumably, he’s going to be dealt, and he’s going to have a chance to win, and that’s going to be great. I mean, he’s been in the playoffs with the Orioles the last two years, but you know that that’s everything you said about Elias. I mean, who knows, right? I mean, we don’t know he’s the guy, and so he’s not anymore, in the same way that Brandon Hyde was the manager until he wasn’t anymore, right? So, well, you and I are going to keep talking
Nestor Aparicio 22:25
about spring training in the rotation next year. I’m telling you in the clubhouse, it’s what’s on the back of my bubble gum car? No, there’s no such thing, you know. What am I hitting? What? What am I slugging? What am I doing? It’s going to be a game of individual statistics the next 90 days that we look at them and say, who’s good enough to make this team next year? And to your point, you know, got to get in the you got to get in the play. You got to play. To show me something all of these guys.
Luke Jones 22:50
And that’s where, a sport like baseball, where, yes, there is a team element, but it’s very individualized, right? I mean, it’s still the pitcher against the hitter.
Nestor Aparicio 22:58
It’s tennis when
Luke Jones 22:59
you’re up there, so that’s where, so that’s where, you know, because when you hear things like that, and I don’t disagree with your sentiment, but in football, that’s when guys make business decisions, right? And things tend to really go off the rails. I mean, I mean, they’re already in last
Nestor Aparicio 23:14
place. Well, that’s why Zach Ethel May have thrown his last pitch. He might be making a business
Luke Jones 23:18
decision. But also, if you’re him, you also want to show you’re healthy, right? You want to get back on the mound and pitch, whether it’s with the Orioles, or whether he does end up getting dealt for whatever, right? So, so, yeah, you do wonder about that a little bit, but, you know, to bring it back to O’Hearn, I mean, he’s someone that they should be able to get a couple decent pieces that, you know, whether it’s a reliever, whether it’s a starting pitcher that you know would be a dean Kramer kind of guy that you project to be in the next year or two, right? I mean, or who knows? I mean, maybe they do look for an outfielder, you know, you you’ve talked so much about wanting to trade Colton cowser. I love how this has become our bit, right? I mean, it is a bit. I mean, it just, I’m trying to find a player they have that somebody else would want, and say, I’ll put him in my lineup and I’ll give you a picture for him, or I’ll give you something you really want. Maybe, whatever that might be, maybe it becomes it’s someone else’s Heston kerstad that has kind of failed a little bit, but you still you really liked him in the draft a few years ago. And you say, yeah, we’ll take that guy for Ryan O’Hearn, because we think we might be able to turn him into the next Ryan o’hern, right? So, so you’re always looking for those opportunities, and is it awkward, because there’s at least some semblance of uncertainty with Mike Elias, sure, but at the same time, he wants to do a good job, because he either wants to, a keep his job or b Get his next job, right? So, so this is where you look at this and say, okay, you know, go out and see what you can do to kind of restock the top of, you know, triple A, let’s say triple A and double A with some new pieces. You know, it’s not going to be someone that takes your farm system from middle of the pack to number one in baseball. It’s not going to be that kind of trade. Deadline return.
Nestor Aparicio 25:01
I don’t think they philosophically start taking pictures after seven years, unless money bags comes in and says, My friends at the Yacht Club told me we should take more pictures. You know what I mean? I mean you and I saying they need to take more pictures. I don’t think it’s their philosophy anymore than the reverse split thing that we went through the other day. I mean, we you and I really get down in the weeds with how awful this team is, and I wonder if we’re boring the hell out of people, or whether we’re doing the best sports radio in the city. Because there really is a point where, like, trying to get inside of their heads at this point is really the game. Because this is a mess. It’s It’s with new ownership, with what they’re doing, with the stadium, with the off season, with their payroll, with their revenue stream, with what they’re trying to front face with the community, what they’re doing with their television network, the fact that we’re talking about they, they definitely don’t have a number one next year. They definitely don’t have a number two next year. We think Dean Kramer’s their ace on opening day right now.
Luke Jones 25:59
I mean, I I don’t think that, I think, but I think he’s a high floor guy that’s going to be part of the rotation right Anyway, go ahead. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 26:07
they just there’s a lot of work to do here and a lot of uncertainty all the way around. There really is. And nobody’s owning it. They’re not out in front of any of it in any way that makes that gives me any confidence as a fan, as a consumer, I think I said that when I was crapping on him two weeks ago before I sort of done crapping on him. If you can’t tell you’re going on vacation, I’m having fun next week with some friends and having crab cakes around here, it’s Fourth of July. I mean, there’s been a lot of really crappy years where they’ve been in last place, and it hasn’t, dare I say, bothered me when the old man was, well, there were no expectations. Yeah, I mean, like, you know, after Oh, six and I did the walkout, that was my way of saying, This is freaking hopeless. It’s been a decade at that point. It had been 13 years after that, from the minute I met you, you know this, I never took them. I mean, you and I were sitting Kansas City. They’re playing in ALCS. It was like a squirrel found in nut, you know, at that point. And Buck Showalter and Manny Machado and Chris Davis found the fountain of Ritalin, or whatever it was. And like that was a miracle, this thing being reconstructed now that we’re unsure of all the young players, I mean, to your point, if I own the team, I would push forward with all of these young one, one, ones, and all these players, and I would spend money on pitching and go after it that way. I don’t think I would do it with Elias, but, and again, I’m a pretty star. I forgotten more about baseball than David Rubenstein is ever going to know. So when he sits in a room with anybody that knows baseball, I don’t know who’s in the room with him that he trust, other than Ripken. I mean, you know any Rick Dempsey anymore? It’s not Tom Davis, it’s not Mike Flanagan, it’s not Sid thrift I’m trying to think of Brady Anderson. I’m thinking of all the constantly areas to these coops. Now, put them all in line. But Jacobson, with that, all of them, I mean, Edward Bennett Williams trusted Larry Latino, who knew what he was doing, so a little bit, um, you got to find somebody knows what they’re doing. Yeah, and, and, yeah. I mean, that that’s going to be part of the rebuilding that that’s the biggest story for me, is who’s picking the ingredients? Because it ain’t David Rubenstein. It certainly is not the Whistler. It’s not Greg Bader or Katie Griggs or mark fine. You know, they better figure out the baseball side of this. And if they’re going to trust Elias, you’re going to get what you get. He’s not going to draft pitchers the next week. He’s not well.
Luke Jones 28:36
But we, I’ve also pointed out to you that. I mean, first of all, drafting pitchers in the first round probably isn’t a great investment, so, but there’s nuance to this, and I’ve even acknowledged, I mean, I, I went through and did this. I’m showing it on the video screen, not that people are going to be able to read it, but I went through and looked at all the pictures that they’ve drafted, going back to 2019 and I think I did it through trying to look at like their first five pitchers that they drafted.
Nestor Aparicio 29:04
Hold that back up again. I want to see that again because the penmanship. Well, your penmanship alone, because
Luke Jones 29:10
I’m not a former teacher here. So handwriting I want to show my audience, but I will say, in fairness to Mike Elias, if you look over their first three years compared to over the last three drafts, have they started to emphasize pitch drafting, pitching a little bit more, sure, because you’re seeing more pitchers taken in the third, fourth, fifth, sixth round, whereas the first 2019 they didn’t take a picture till the eighth round. 2020 was the COVID draft. I mean, that was weird. They took Carter baumler In the fifth round. He’s had injuries throughout his career. 2021 they did take a pitcher in the fifth round. But if you look over the last three years, there has been more of an emphasis than there had been. Does that mean it’s enough? Well, we’re going to, we’re going to. To see, right? I mean, typically, if you’re talking about drafting guys in, 2223 24 for most of those guys, we’re still kind of entering the period where you’re going to find out, right? They do have some guys in their system, or any of them, Grayson, Rodriguez, in terms of how they’re heralded and viewed by baseball America, no, but we’re going to see how it plays out. They, in fact, they just had a, he’s 18 years old. Just had a pitcher that’s in their system that was international signing. I want to bring up his name. I don’t have his name memorized off the top of my head, so I’m going to bring it up on social media. But he just, he just cracked baseball America’s top 100 has a real live arm, but he’s 18, so he’s a ways away, so that’s kind of what we’re talking about here. But his name is Esteban Mahia. That’s his name. Esteban
Nestor Aparicio 30:53
Young was my favorite Esteban, so of all times. So
Luke Jones 30:57
so it’s not as though there are no names whatsoever, but is there anyone that’s coming around the corner, right, that that’s going to help out to that degree? You know, that’s where you look at it, and say, probably not. I mean, he’s 18. I’ve seen a couple baseball America types say that he has a ceiling, that he could be a number one starter, but probably four years from now, right? So that’s not helping you right now. And obviously he has a long way to go if he’s going to stay healthy. But, you know, he’s done a night. He’s got a two to five era in the in the Florida Coast League, you know, the down a in rookie ball level. So great. You know, it’s not as though they’re not doing anything on the pitching side, but boy, they’ve got a lot of work to do. And that’s why I kind of look at Dean Kramer and say, All right, you can trade them, but how are you replacing him on top of the three other guys you need to sign. So my point on that is, if you’re going to you got you have to feel like you’re getting surplus value. You’re getting more value than what you think Dean Kramer is worth, and is a team dealing for that. I mean, think about what Dean Kramer is. He’s not someone that you’re identifying as a contenders, identifying and saying, Yeah, we want him to start game two of a playoff series. No, he’s a guy that you want to fill out the back of your rotation with, because he’s going to take the ball and be relatively dependable. He’s going to give you a sub four era, probably, and kind of be that that’s not necessary. That’s someone that comes out of the bullpen in a playoff series, right? So my point with with him, you know, just to go back to that, is he’s probably more valuable to the Orioles right now than a potential contender, you know, as far as what a contender would actually give you for him. So I don’t know, man, I mean, that’s, it’s a long explanation for, okay, I think, I think they’ve recognized a little bit here and there, that they have to emphasize pitching more, but that not enough, right? I mean, they still have to do way more. They still have to figure out what this is going to look like. And, you know, to even go back to your trade premise, you know, in terms of trading for pitching. That’s where I’d say, you know, cows are, or whoever, right, whoever. If you’re going to do that kind of a deal, I almost feel that might be something maybe, you see over the winter, you know, maybe that’s something that’s the kind of move. Or, you know, you do trade a member of the young core, and you go, you know, you get a pitcher who maybe isn’t a number one, but is a guy that’s a number two. You know, I’ll throw a name. That’s just an example right now, because I’ve heard, I even saw MLB Network did a segment on him. Sandy Alcantara, the pitcher for the Marlins, who is back from Tommy John surgery this year, statistically, has not had a good season. I mean, he he’s been better of late, but he has an era that’s just under seven. But you’re talking about someone who’s a two time all star. He’s only 29 years old. The thought is he’s going to be better at getting further and further away from Tommy John surgery, which he had, what, in 2024 23 whenever it was. And you know, he’s the kind of guy that right now, like you look at his numbers, you’d say, but if you think, if you have a belief, that he’s going to continue to get better, and he comes and gets a fresh start, gets out of Miami, even though the Marlins just had an eight game winning streak, but he’s the kind of guy that I’ve seen some teams, or, you know, some speculation that even a contender could kick the tires on Allen was all about that. Yeah, so last week, and I’m not saying that, but he’s a guy that might, that might end up being a deal that comes to fruition in the winter, right? Because part of that is there’s also contract, contractual control for him, where I think he signed, what he signed, a five year, $56 million deal back, you know, I think it was back in 2021 whatever it was, but he’s under team control for another year. And then there’s a team option for 2027 so you’re talking about someone who has two years of Team control that, you know. I think the Marlins are going to ask for a lot because he’s not.
Nestor Aparicio 35:03
That’s where cows are comes into play. Bro, sure, you asked me where cows are comes in. That’s where cows are
Luke Jones 35:08
comes in. What are you going to trade Colton cows are for a guy who has a 70 Ra, right? Maybe not, I mean, but I’m just saying, and I think that’s where alcantara might be a guy that maybe he finishes out the year with Miami team, see how he pitches over the next couple months. And then you’re talking about that. And I don’t know if it would be Colton cowser, but it might be one of the other names that we’ve talked about, you know. So, so we’ll see how that plays out. But I will also say that if you’re trading from the core, okay, well, then, then you’ve got to replace whoever that you know, again, you trade Colton cows are fine. You need another outfielder then, because right now, he, he profiles to be your likely starting center fielder on opening day next year. I mean, so that’s, there’s value there that you have to replace. So they’ve got a lot to do. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 35:59
all right, so, so I gotta ask you this year, because you held this thing up, I have since shared it on the internet, because I found that to be so fascinating. You broke down the pictures and I said, you know, you took us back to school today, and I’m trolling all the way around because you’re going away for 10 days and leaving me here with the last place baseball team that I don’t want to watch. But I looked on this thing, do the Orioles have a Nestor in their organization? I see a Nestor German in your handwriting here, and it has forced me to find a new favorite
Luke Jones 36:27
player. So Herman, yeah, Roman, yeah, I called
Nestor Aparicio 36:31
him German, Hispanic guy. This, you know, when ice comes that’ll disprove that I’m, I’m, I’m legit. I don’t, I can’t even pronounce Herman, he
Luke Jones 36:40
so right now, this this season, he is split between Aberdeen and Chesapeake, you know, boo, that’s right, yeah, it’s Chesapeake now, which I’ve messed that up all year long. He’s got decent numbers, you know? I mean, he’s, think he’s 23 right now, you know, does he have a shot to be in the
Nestor Aparicio 36:59
conversation? But in all fairness, your list in your handwriting, as I look at this, this is literally, if you’re Mike Elias, writing out everybody in the organization, where they came from, where their pipeline, like all of that, and where they are and what they’re counting on. You don’t really have anything in the pipeline right now that you project even onto the Major League roster next year, yeah, because that’s how dry it really is. And amongst all of these names, they’re just dudes. Every organization has 50 Ryan ripkens. No offense to Ryan Ripken, but like that’s just dude sitting to something something and something something somewhere, who were 20 something, making 20 something a year. And, you know, I but I just wanted to root. We haven’t had a lot of nestors. Can I just enjoy if you get Luke’s, there’s a lot of Luke’s. There’s Joneses everywhere. Is it Adam Jones and Mr. Jones? They’re not a lot of Nestor so let me root for Nestor. Herman, yeah, I call it a Nestor German,
Luke Jones 37:59
and that’s fine. I mean, like I said, I mean, they have, it’s not as though they have no pitchers whatsoever, but how many of those guys project to be first of all for next year? And you kind of look at next year, I mean, really, what you’re looking at for next year is more so on the position player side, bissio, you know, a guy that we haven’t talked about, that we could see before the season’s out, because he’s played very well at triple A. And to go back to your your trading, Colton cows are fantasy that you have. Dylan beavers, you know, has put up really nice numbers at triple A. You know, he’s, he could be part of their outfield. I mean, we could see him before the years out. I mean, we depending on who they might trade over the next month and and what the roster looks like the rest of the year, but, but, yeah, you kind of look at the pitching right now, and there are some, a couple interesting names here and there, like Nestor Herman right now is their number 10 prospect. If you look on MLB pipeline,
Nestor Aparicio 38:54
is he really he’s made the top 10. He is. But I’m on his Instagram right now. Don’t get me started off fanboy now, he’s Nestor German, G, G, G, E, R, man, Herman. People in Dundalk are listening to Terry Nestor, German, 24 he’s got 1081 followers. He’s going to have 1082 in a minute. He’s from Seattle, Washington, and he’s a good looking young ball player, good looking player. He’s got a pretty girlfriend, overlooking Seattle, looking right handed pitcher, wearing a Seattle you here? You know here, here he is, right here, dreaming a little bit. He’s using a Wilson glove. I was more of a raw links guy, but he’s wearing Houston Oiler blue in in when he played his college ball. About this, I like it. It looks like Lansdowne high school out there. Yeah. So,
Luke Jones 39:43
so we’ll see. I mean, like I said, he’s pitching. I’m trying to find somebody something that
Nestor Aparicio 39:47
they did look at. You
Speaker 1 39:49
know, it’s fine. He, he’s been solid, like that. We’ll see. I mean, let’s run a bus trip down to Chesapeake. Yeah, he’s been there since mid May, and he’s got, okay. Numbers get a crab bomb at Jerry. Maybe he’s someone that’s in the picture by halfway through next year, or something like that. I mean, we’ll see. I mean, I don’t think you know he’s not someone with ace potential. But
Nestor Aparicio 40:10
when they give me my credentials back this off season, when Cal fixes things, because I know he will, Sarasota, I’m going to be on the back fields watching Nestor Adam on do his thing. So
Luke Jones 40:23
it’d be really funny if it wasn’t Herman, and it actually was German, but I I’m pretty sure it’s Nestor, Herman. All right.
Nestor Aparicio 40:29
Luke Jones is Pennsylvania, and he’s going to be Jersey in this week. Last place, it’s over with. Go on vacation. Walk the sands. Eat bad food. Enjoy your nieces to make sure they don’t get any sand in their mouth. I know they’re little, so protect them and make sure they get SPF 50. Your sister will be all into that, but have a good time with your family. Luke Jones can be found nowhere for the next 10 days. Don’t bother him until the Home Run Derby. And you know, you get back, we get my favorite all time event, the Home Run Derby. And you know, like, O’Hare is going to be in it, right? He’s like, lobbying, right?
Luke Jones 41:03
I would hope so. I mean, it sounds like they’re having issues, or they’re having some issues with getting some of the top guys to do it. He is flat out, said, I’ll do it. I mean, it was great. He talked yesterday, or, you know, talked on Wednesday, when he did when he was picked. And you could tell how excited he is about this. I mean, good for him. As much as this season has been terrible, it’s good to see him at least, you know, have be a bright spot. I
Nestor Aparicio 41:29
was at Chris hoyles his locker when he got screwed many years ago, and the disappointment, and, you know, guys got disappointed, and other guys would, you know, Cal knew he was going to, you know. And it was just rolled off. It just it was obligation for a lot of guys at that point, even 30 years ago. It’s, it’s refreshing. I like it. It’s good. You know,
Luke Jones 41:49
it’s nice to have a good story, and what’s been a lousy season. So good for Ryan O’Hearn, I’m with you. I hope he’s in the Derby, and I’m hoping all that you know, for the Orioles sake, leads to potentially being able to deal him off to a contender, and they can get a couple of nice pieces in return. And who knows, maybe you resign them in the off season, you could have one of those scenarios that we saw the Orioles do that with Mike bordick Once upon a time. So we’ll see how it all plays out. I
Nestor Aparicio 42:15
am delighted to be sitting back for the Fourth of July in search of gold watermelon, in search of peach cake, which I’m going to find some peach cake by the end, by sundown, by the time the sun sets here over East Baltimore, I’ll have peach cake. Sun doesn’t set every East Baltimore I know that don’t write to me about that on the internet. I am, it’s an inside joke. I’m Nestor. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, the Ravens will be in training camp when Luke Jones comes back, where Baltimore positive.
