Itโs an offseason of mystery not just for Baltimore Orioles fans but for everyone around Major League Baseball wondering where Juan Soto and many others will land. Luke Jones and Nestor get heated with some Hot Stove Orioles chatter as free agency looms and the new ownership comes under the microscope for messaging and intentions for the payroll of Mike Elias.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles offseason, free agency, Juan Soto, payroll increase, pitching needs, player injuries, new ownership, fan engagement, financial strategy, player contracts, market comparison, team improvements, player acquisitions, revenue impact, fan expectations
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. We are positively into another football week. Itโs Pittsburgh, Baltimore week around here that will take precedent over all things, not turkey and cranberry and pumpkin pie and mince meat and all those good things. And, of course, crab cakes, the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by our friends at the Maryland lottery, out on the road all month long through the holidays, for shipping and for delivery for all your loved ones. This is the best time of the year where people argue. I like to faith these crab cake No, itโs across this crowd. No, itโs Cocoโs. Ship them all to ship them all. Itโs easy. And of course, weโre gonna be over state fair as well with our friends at Catonsville, and even a pizza Johns, where they ship crab cakes and pizza all over the country. We didnโt, didnโt learn that till we talk baseball. I think the last baseball conversation I had here was a pizza Johns. It was back when it was Dodgers versus Yankees. I donโt know that you and I even did a whole Requiem on the whole Freddie Freeman thing, and the whole how I almost went to Yankee Stadium for game five, and I didnโt, and I had a ticket on my thing, and it was going to be 80 degrees, and like all of that Luke baseball season, it feels so like, I mean, are we allowed to talk about it, or are we not? Do we have to pretend there isnโt an off season here anymore, like we did for like, 30 years?
Luke Jones 01:20
I mean, we could talk about it, and not a whole lot has happened. But, yeah, itโs been a minute since weโve talked some baseball that I still canโt get over that Yankees fifth inning, right? I mean, Little League defense that leads to their demise and not being able to send the series back to Dodger Stadium, not putting that anxiety on the Dodgers and hey, Iโm okay with it, right? I mean, it, if youโre going to root for the teams you know, have to root for one of the teams that has one of the highest payrolls in baseball, itโs not going to be the Yankees. So I was okay with the Dodgers winning. But
Nestor Aparicio 01:50
isnโt it funny, we were on the Red Sox side for a minute, and then then it was like, then now what do we do? Oh, yeah. I
Luke Jones 01:55
mean, itโs the, itโs the Batman line, right? I mean, youโre either the here, you know, youโre either the I now Iโm, Iโm blanking on it, but you live long enough you become the villain, right? I botched that there. Yes, thatโs good. You
Nestor Aparicio 02:09
got it, right? But, yeah,
Luke Jones 02:10
you know, itโs certainly, itโs an interesting off season, right? We talked about this. I mean, we talked about this even before the season ended, when, I think in mid September, I think we had an idea that, yes, okay, the Orioles, anyone has a shot, you get in. I donโt think anyone was really feeling the vibes at that point. And they get swept, right? Didnโt score, couldnโt score. So where they go from here? I mean that weโve had some decisions made as far as club options. You know, you and I havenโt had a chance. I think the most surprising development so far has not been the hitting coaches leaving or some of the changes on the coaching staff. I think you have that happen most of the time anyway. I think it was Danny cool not having his option picked up. You know, I wrote about that at Baltimore positive.com It was $4 million we know how big Danny coulomb was out of their bullpen the last couple years at face value, it doesnโt seem to make much sense, but you start to do some digging. His Velo was way down when he came back in September. I really wonder if this is as simple as theyโre not optimistic about the health of his elbow and the fact that heโs 35 years old, and, you know, they have, well, theyโre
Nestor Aparicio 03:23
not $4 million optimistic the way they were. How much did they sink into the bullpen last year? That didnโt, didnโt really make it through July.
Luke Jones 03:32
Yeah. Well, as specifically Craig Kimbrell, yeah. So look and Danny coulomb could be back at a cheaper rate. I mean, weโll see how these things play out. But to me, that was the most surprising. I mean, Ryan OโHearn back on an option, Sir Anthony Dominguez, maybe, maybe slightly surprising there. I know some people were debating whether the Orioles would spend $8 million for him, but hey, you have Felix Batista back, presumably healthy. I saw with my own eyes, he was throwing bullpens in early October at Camden Yards. So he should be full go for spring training, barring anything weird happening. So you have him, you have yen, your Cano, you have Sir Anthony Dominguez, that already on paper anyway, looks better bullpen wise,
Nestor Aparicio 04:17
if they had done that in the off season last year, adding some names before we got to march, maybe we would have thought differently about it. And now itโs, can they add more? But youโre like, we just gave Sir Anthony $8 million and you know, his this nameโs ser like Elton John or Rod Stewart. You know, I do think thereโs any look in, by the way, I met mister Rubinstein. Did I tell you this? No, I have you told you this? No, I didnโt know. Yeah. So things have happened to the baseball side. I mean literally so and big shout out to everybody. Beth the fellow whoโs so kind to me the night that I was out there seeing mister Rubenstein give me. The speech that feels like heโs given 1000 times about his life story and his wealth and the Orioles and but nonetheless, I would say from a financial standpoint, and this is different you and Iโve had the argument this week about the Steelers and how how valuable a draft pick is, what you do with the trading deadline, what your resources are, and in the NFL, they do the best they can to make all the resources the same. Itโs not because of you and I been to the Dallas facility. You see how much money teams can spend on non field related personnel and all sorts of ways. And everybodyโs trying to keep up. I mean, Maryland went out and played Oregon this week, you know, like everybodyโs keeping up and building and all of these sports and equal pay in the in the NFL, not equal at all in college football. And we see the imbalance baseball Dodger Yankees. And we say, as we do, our orange pride. And by the way, I looked at my closet here, this time of year, itโs really easy to find the the Oriole related stuff, and Iโm wearing my curio wellness orange or Baltimore shirt. Itโs like the only orange thing I have this time of year in my closet. So I I grab it, and I literally was in New York very quietly for a couple days after the election last week, just walking around pondering life and and I walk past the Major League Baseball store, which is a beautiful glass thing, and you go in and you thereโs the Richmond Jersey, and thereโs the gunner, you know, and thereโs the cool swag they have thatโs $389 that Iโm not gonna buy, thatโs stitched somewhere in Taiwan, probably for the great American game, but, but I had a good time just looking at it and feeling that baseball vibe and thinking of the off season. And again, I spent a whole evening on Monday with Mr. Rubenstein. I spent 45 minutes in the baseball store, you know, in the middle of Times Square, just looking around. I mean, Iโm a baseball guy, and we talk about what keeps you involved, and part of that is you and I just doing a segment this week and saying, what did they do? What didnโt they do? What could they do? Whatโs Juan Soto going to do? And however long this can gets kicked on burns on, I mean, it looks like the Yankees had big, big news with Gary Cole that got sort of happened and flared very quickly, and weโre all good if thereโs going to be a deal for any player around here, just going to happen, but itโs probably not going to happen quickly, not this time of year. That keeps it off of our tongue a little bit from talking about it. But there is the big question, which is, all right, you spent 8 million on an arm in the bullpen. How much are you going to spend? And itโs a different question for I think college football has this sort of open ended question in a lot of ways, for whoโs going to spend, what on what? And I watch it on Saturdays, and I scratch my head, but I find the Orioles to be fascinating for what theyโre going to value, how in charge Mike Elias is going to be and feel with new ownership, where the real pocket book is, where the real value is on international players. I mean, somebodyโs going to sign this kid from overseas. Itโs like, Iโve watched him throw and Iโm like, Dude, that guyโs at least a two, if not a one, and probably going to sign on the West Coast, I guess, because thatโs the way it goes. And whatโs going to happen with Soto whatโs going to happen with big contracts that are out there? And you wonder, are the Orioles a player? Are they not? Yeah, Mr. Rubenstein sat in front of me. I shook his hand, I talked to him. I had 30 seconds with him, and itโs so uneventful as to not Iโm I mean, I guess Iโll talk about it at some point. I thereโs really enough to the report. You know, of any substance, but nonetheless, I am wondering, and I will judge them on their actions, as to you can be a poverty franchise? Are you going to be trying to build something? You trying to build an upper deck? Whatโs Miss Griggs doing? How concerned are you about the 10,000 empty seats? Which is, I didnโt lead with that with Mr. Rubenstein, but I had about 30 seconds with him. Thatโs all he wanted to give me, and thatโs cool, but I have a lot of questions, and every fan should whoโs given their money, including the Birdland insiders. And you know, Iโve talked a lot of people about their their their financial involvement, but thereโs no question my heartโs still very involved. You know what I mean, like, especially in all season when they can win and watching a World Series. I mean, you know how close I came to going to game five, I was all set up to go to game six and seven out in LA with Janet Marie and rooting for the Dodgers a little bit, and having, baseball be fun for me. I mean, you know, on a personal level, itโs not as much fun as it used to be for me, but I try to pick my moments. I mean, I did do 30 ballparks in 30 day. I mean, like, you know, and add it up, I only been to 43 World Series games. I said 47 I had the wrong number on that. But, you know, so I love baseball enough to spend a chill. Monday night out with Mr. Rubenstein enough to spend. I could have been anywhere in New York on an 80 degree day. I was in the baseball store goofing around, and Iโm wondering who theyโre going to be. I mean, thatโs really my big like, thereโs another thing with Angeloโs, although I did bring his name up with Mr. Rubenstein, because he asked me why I didnโt have a press pass. And I said, well, so I donโt this is their time to do whatever the Splash is. I donโt even, I donโt even, or whether they want to make a splash, or whether they think weโre not a splash team. Cardinals werenโt a splash team, and you know, we could be that, or whatever theyโre gonna point as their PR North Star, whatever theyโre going to pimp out on orioles.com and however, the corporate, because it feels like itโs gonna be very corporate. One thing I got from Mr. Rubenstein that I will share with you, that I havenโt shared publicly, it is, I guess the first time, he doesnโt really know a lot about baseball. You know what I mean? Like, if I were to sit with him, I would agree with Mr. Allman to say, Iโm not gonna, like, ask him how many if Ben McDonald was his favorite pitcher in the 90s, because heโs been he was very upfront about having not watched baseball. He said he went to 38 baseball games this year. Was 38 more than heโs been through the last 50 years. He said, Yeah. So you know what I mean? Like, I donโt think heโs to blame. He is just the pocketbook and the guy they need to convince the unconvincible, which is give this. Give Soto, 600 million. You know what I mean? Like, I donโt, I donโt know how they value this. I donโt know how a 74 year old guy who keeps talking about it being a philanthropy, but needs to make money and wants to make money, he has 10,000 empty seats. Nobody knows how to connect to it on online. Theyโre more restrictive as a group. Mean, thereโs all of this really high end stuff that I think heโs a really smart guy, can sit and talk about it, but I donโt think he, he bought this for kicks, dude. So asking him questions, I donโt think he really has the answers, and Iโm not looking to embarrass him. You know what? I mean, like, but I donโt know how you sink 100 100, 50 million a year into this, more this, that value it, thatโs Mike Elias. Is the value. And quite frankly, he never had, he never got to stay at the Four Seasons. He lived at the courtyard, and was fine with the courtyard and learned how to live there, but then they had order room service from there or and when all youโve done is bad mouth. It like McPhail and say free agents, bad, bad, bad, too much wasted money, high risk arm, UCO ACL, Tommy John, you know, I hear you, but the fans are that are here that you need to satiate, need to see something that feels different. I donโt even know what the hell Iโm talking about, but Iโm just talking out loud because itโs November, and weโre talking baseball relevantly in a real non Angelo sense. For the first time since I went on the air in 1992 and 93 that Iโve lived long enough to survive it all. I do wonder what it looks like, and Iโd love to have smart feet and I and again, I, with all due respect to Mr. Allman and Mr. Rubens, I donโt theyโre not the ones that give me answers. I literally donโt expect to sit next to them right now. And I know more about baseball than Mr. Rubenstein, I promise you. I The history of it, where the money the flow. I just I think heโs a really wealthy guy whoโs having a good time with this. And I donโt I gotta hold him responsible, but like, I have a lot of questions that need to be answered, and the fans need to be answered. Itโs going to be on display and judged in the coming months as to great players are available if you want to pay that price, and you have a couple of your own, and weโre in it for real. Now. Thereโs no more John boy, and Peterโs not here anymore. And oh, Chris Davis, and what are we going to do with macha? They got a real situation here. They they can win multiple championships, if they figure it out. And I think they can rebuild the city and all that stuff, and maybe even get some Hispanic people there, some African American people to the games. But all that aside, and all my snarkiness aside, this is really ripe with opportunity and really rich guys that say, Iโm really rich and we have the money, they keep saying that. Well, then go sign one Soto, and letโs move your payroll to 145 million and suck it up. And letโs go. Letโs go play. I mean, I donโt, I donโt know what else to say, because youโre either going to put big boy pants on or youโre going to force me and Luke to sit here and say, well, theyโre trying harder, but theyโre a poverty franchise. I mean, some point you got to sign somebody
Luke Jones 14:40
Sure. Well, and in fairness to them, they brought in Corbin burns last year on a trade, and he made money. Zach Evelynโs gonna make real money this year, or realer money than what weโve been talking about here in recent years. So by
Nestor Aparicio 14:55
the way, youโre making great points, and weโre not the PR firm for that. Them, right? They really have made those strides. I mean, they were, I mean, great baseball in October, you know, right? And this
Luke Jones 15:07
is where we need to strike the right, the proper balance. And when I say we, I just mean, generally speaking, you know, fans, media, whoever, just observe, objective observers. I mean, this is still a team that has a lot going for it. And I even just saw it, I think it was mlb.com and I canโt remember the athletic it was a national outlet, and they were ranking the current rosters around baseball, and the Orioles were still ranked very highly. I think they were fourth, fifth, something like that, because of all their young talent, right? Thereโs still a lot to love about this baseball team, but, and you know your first point about Rubenstein not knowing a whole lot about baseball, Iโm okay with that. Because honestly, if you have an owner who knows a whole lot about baseball, what also do you run the risk of having happen? They get involved, they meddle, they start thinking theyโre smarter than the general manager they hire right? So I can see both sides to that argument there. I think the big question, and you said it, I mean, this is, this is clearly, this is not something that a man with at the age of David Rubenstein comes in and just says, Iโm going to buy this and I donโt care about winning whatsoever. I just want to turn a profit. Now, whenever he or his family, or whoever you know, the rest of the ownership group, however it plays out, you know, I mean, maybe this group owns the team for the next 20 years. Who knows? Even after David Rubensteinโs long gone, right? I mean, you donโt we? None of us know how long weโre going to be on this earth. To be clear, but clearly that itโll be profitable, because thatโs just how these things appreciate. You know, even the the bad franchises appreciate in value, because itโs just a cash cow in that way. But what does he want it to be? You know, does he want to truly win a World Series? Does he just want to kind of ride the wave of whatโs already started under Mike Elias and what had started under the previous regime, because they drafted well, and they had early draft picks and and all that. So I want to be clear here, though, look in a vacuum, going out and signing one soda would be amazing, right? And Iโm not even saying that they couldnโt go out and do that in a vacuum, practically speaking, and understanding priors and all of that. You and I certainly arenโt holding our breath for that to happen. But Iโll also point out thereโs a wide range there. It is, a very wide net between being not even the Aโs, because the Aโs are a different category right now. Say the rays right who I think are projected to be 26th in payroll this coming year. And again, thatโs so early, those projections donโt mean much right now, to be the rate between the rays and signing Juan Soto right and and taking your payroll to that range instantly, knowing that all these young players you have are also going to get more and more expensive over the next few years. So thereโs a wide so this
Nestor Aparicio 17:58
is what I would like to sit down with Miss Griggs and say, Are you, I mean, whatโs real here? You know, what is the promise of broad fans here? But
Luke Jones 18:05
you know, theyโre not going to broadcast that, because, for one thing, you start doing that, youโre already negotiating against yourself, against potential free agents, right? So, so theyโre not going to do that. But my point with that and burns is a much better example here. Okay, Iโve even said to you at different points, even if, if I were a general manager, and letโs say I wasnโt the Dodgers, but letโs say I was a team that had a top half of the league payroll. Iโll be totally honest with you, Nestor, Iโm not sure Iโd spend what Corbin Burns is going to get in free agency. Again, his strikeout rate has dropped four straight years. He was great at at the very end of the season, but as recently as August, we were saying, whatโs going on with Corbin burns? Right? He had a very good year, but it wasnโt 2021 peak Corbin burns. So my point in that is not trashing or tearing down Corbin burns. Let me be very clear my Iโm working under the assumption that someone is going to give him a seven year deal, and maybe they wonโt, and if they and if they donโt, then shame on the Orioles, if theyโre not in on it, if he only gets a four year deal, then weโre having a much different conversation. But Iโm working under that assumption, because Scott Boris is going to do what Scott Boris is going to do and and part of that is also going to be that Corbin burns probably isnโt going to sign before Valentineโs Day,
Nestor Aparicio 19:19
or he might not have till May
Luke Jones 19:23
never, right? You never know. So my point with with saying that is okay, even if itโs not Corbin burns, you just mentioned Sasaki. We just found out just a couple days ago, he is going to be posted. He with him being younger, heโs not the guy thatโs going to get, you know, a Yamamoto nine figure kind of contract. You kind of look at the Orioles and bonus pool money, and you know, thereโs been some question as far as whether heโll sign before the date that goes into the 2025 international signing period. So, but the point is, the Orioles now, itโs going to be a tough sell job, because the Dodgers obviously have had a history. Luke, Luke, we moved
Nestor Aparicio 20:01
the wall back. We moved the wall back. But
Luke Jones 20:03
Iโm talking more so in terms of the history of, you know, Asian players signing it, no, I
Nestor Aparicio 20:09
donโt think thereโs any question that thereโs, you know, I donโt want to say thereโs a bias, but itโs more than a trend, you know. I mean, you know, so
Luke Jones 20:15
culture is part of that, you know, what region I mean, being on the West Coast compared to, you know, obviously the proxy, you know, problem,
Nestor Aparicio 20:21
nobody dreams to resup, dreaming of being an Oriole, not even Little Rock Arkansas, not
Luke Jones 20:26
in Japan, certainly not in Japan, right? So, but that said, thatโs an option. I Iโve mentioned growing
Nestor Aparicio 20:34
up, wanting to be watching in general. I
Luke Jones 20:38
mean, you never know, right? And some of that, everybody wanted to be a glove Trotter.
Nestor Aparicio 20:41
Everybody wants me, yeah, wants to be Yankee or dodger. My people are from Venezuela. Nobody dreamed of being an Indian, even though they had some good ones or even some White Sox and they had a Hall of Fame one but, but at
Luke Jones 20:51
the same time, their money still their money still counts, right? Their money still works so but, you know, thereโs Blake Snell, thereโs Kikuchi from the Astros, right? He went over from Toronto. Everyone scratched their head and said, Wow, Houston paid way too much. Did you see how he pitched for the Astros? He was outstanding. So heโs older. Heโs not a guy thatโs going to get a nine figure, long term contract, but these are the kind of pitchers, and you know, Blake Snells, 32 heโs not going to get burns money if weโre assuming Burns is going to get somewhere in the in the vicinity of what Scott Boris wants, but heโs still going to get really good money. So I donโt need it to be top of the market. I donโt need to see the Orioles sign Juan Soto or even Corbin burns at the same time. You got to go out and get a legitimate starting pitcher, or, in the case of, you know, maybe theyโre not looking for a left handed outfielder, but Iโve seen this name mentioned, even though heโs probably, you know, heโs made it clear heโd like to resign in LA but TI. Oscar Hernandez, right handed hitting outfielder. Heโs older. I get that heโs not going to be like a crazy long contract, but just won a World Series. Has played in the World Series before. Heโs got a profile, heโs got swing and miss, but he also draws walks. Now, playing in Baltimore with the big left field wall, heโs not going to hit 30 home runs, but he could still hit 20.
Nestor Aparicio 22:09
I donโt think you win a bidding war with the Dodgers for him, but itโs a question as to whether youโd want him or Santander with price. Right, right, right.
Luke Jones 22:16
And again, you know heโs not going to be the biggest ticket market out there, right? I mean, heโs not the big ticket signing out there, right? Thereโs, again, thereโs a big range here. I want to see the Orioles spend money too, but I donโt want to see them spend it foolishly. I want to see them spend wisely. I would much rather see a scenario where they meant they signed a couple of these. I donโt even know a second tier is the right turn. Theyโre not Premier, but theyโre still top tier. Kind of guys sign a guy like that, and how about resign gunner Henderson to a contract extension? You want to talk about something that will vital. You know that will is that, I
Nestor Aparicio 22:56
mean, I like, I would not bring that up with Mr. Rubenstein as a possibility of holding them responsible for what happens when Boris is involved, you know, I mean, I
Luke Jones 23:08
hear you, donโt get me wrong.
Nestor Aparicio 23:10
Iโm not where we start. Give me the negotiation. Jerry Maguire, youโre
Luke Jones 23:14
talking about a 12 or 13 year deal. I mean, go see what Bobby Witt signed for with the Royals, and then more than that, right? I mean, thatโs what youโre talking about here. But I would also say this, look, the Scott Boris thing, it is what it is, right? Itโs challenging. Iโm not going to sit here. Iโm not sitting here and saying that snap your fingers and gunner Henderson is going to sign a 12 year deal. But that doesnโt mean you donโt try either. That doesnโt mean that you donโt put your chips on the table and attempt and see what it looks like, and understand that this is the kind of player that is a shortstop. Itโs 23 years old, even if he has to move to third base when he hits age 29 youโre still talking about a guy that should be a very viable player for the next decade. And when I say very viable, I mean superstar caliber. You know what MANNY What Manny Machado has been even to this point in his career as heโs now on the other side of third
Nestor Aparicio 24:05
and you love the kid by all, by all exactly measurements, right?
Luke Jones 24:10
And Iโll remind everyone you know, Scott Boris works for the player, not the other way around. And look, I understand thatโs a deliberate hire that players make, and Scott Boris gives them cover, right? And so many of these guys, I mean, it kind of is what it is, but itโs not as though there has never been a player thatโs been a Scott Boris client that has signed an extension. So look, whether itโs gunner, whether itโs, I donโt know. I donโt even know who the at this point out, unless Adley rutschman has given me a really good discount. I have no interest in signing him, Adley rutschman, to an extension based on the second half he just had. I gotta. I donโt
Nestor Aparicio 24:47
think he can. What the heck happened? We went from talking about that to not I mean, thatโs a non starter for me, right? I
Luke Jones 24:54
mean, understanding probably what the money would be to even get him to the table, right? Um. Uh, you know, is Jordan Westberg, that guy. Look, Jackson holidays could still be that guy. And look, that doesnโt mean Jackson holidays getting a 13 year deal, letโs be clear. But weโve seen players that right, either right before they make the majors or right after they arrive, sign and you can buy out a couple years of free agency, right? So, but the point is, with all of this, and I think your pointโs well taken, regardless of what the arbitrary number would be in elevating the payroll, itโs going to go up, because look at all the guys they have in arbitration. I mean, it went up from 22 to 23 and 20
Nestor Aparicio 25:35
look, they can spin all their science about how many sky boxes are going to sell and how many tickets are going to have, and how many subscriptions are in, and whatever, they didnโt Seattle, that Miss Griggs, that out there or in Atlanta with her, her soccer background, and whatever, whatever theyโre going to be as a grown up business, I learned last Monday night over bet the fellow, itโs not going to be, because Mr. Rubenstein has an office down the hall and is really taking a, you know, a full on, full on approach on baseball in his life, you know, like I and so for me, this is all Iโve done for 30 years. Itโs like Dan Connolly said to John a last year, like, what do you know about this? Donโt I know about this? Sitting youโre talking about this every day in lawsuit. I mean, the first question for them is the massive lawsuit, and trying to figure that out, because that was always the encumbrance with all the other partners, and figuring out whatโs their market, whatโs our market? Now that Daniels is doing what heโs doing down there, we sat around and watched Washington and Pittsburgh and terrible piles being thrown around at 30 minutes from where I live, that the two markets, they have to figure that out fundamentally from the top, and then whatโs left for the Orioles and what the because theyโre being counting this dude in some way because of the right itโs all pie in the sky to sign Juan Soto. But there is a point where theyโre like, letโs throw another 50 million a year at it for five years, amortized over the middle there, itโs a quarter of a billion dollars. And when we sell the thing, itโs going to be worth 3.8 but the government just gave us 600 million toward this thing. Letโs go. Iโm 74, years old. I want to win. Letโs go. Yeah, that could happen that. I mean, thatโs not far it was really far fetched with John Angela. So far fetched. Iโve never said those words out loud. But now that weโre here, and now that Iโve met Mr. Rubenstein and seeing what this is a toy. Itโs this Disney World. Itโs supposed to be fun. Tell you what, dude, itโs a whole lot more fun when you win. What makes us win better players with a pipeline and a thought, no better players, like weโre good enough now we need better players.
Luke Jones 27:47
Iโll push back a little The pipelineโs still important, because you donโt want this. You have said this over and over. I remember you saying this a decade ago. You also donโt want to be the Kansas City Royals, where you say, Okay, you catch lightning in a bottle, you win a World Series. Itโs great, and fans are excited and jacked up about it for two years, and then it just falls right back into where it was before. So Iโll push back on the play. Well, donor
Nestor Aparicio 28:11
Steeler ravens week. If we say nothing about the Steelers and nothing about the ravens, They never go into a black hole. This franchise has been a black hole for three decades. So Iโm trying to figure out what their plan is based on what Iโm seeing. Because, to your point, theyโre never going to speak to me, and if they do, are they really going to be honest anyway? Theyโre going to be judged by their actions just based on the fact that you have a press pass and I donโt, and that they have national Hispanic Awareness Month, and Iโm, you know, I canโt even ask a question. So the questions I have are very legitimate, from a fan standpoint, civic standpoint, taxpayers time I invested in all of this, media standpoint, all of it, witnessing it all, get your sea legs under you, but while you get your sea legs under you, donโt let Juan Soto sign with the Blue Jays. You know what I mean, like, then you got to go compete with them. And there is a point where we saw the Yankees and Dodgers. And itโs not going to be that way every year, but, man, it is a have and have not kind of business over the long haul of what. Moneyball was a great movie, it was a good book. Didnโt win buckets, pardon my French.
Luke Jones 29:22
I mean, I hear you at the same time. I mean, the Orioles arenโt going to have a top five pay. We know that, right? I mean, again, we could sit here and howl at the moon about signing whatever free agent you want to sign, Juan Soto or whoever. I mean, theyโre not. Going, I canโt sit here with any level of objectivity and say that I expect, or even say that the Orioles will be in on that, on that specific that contract. But again, thereโs a big difference between that and operating like the rays. You know, I donโt want to see the Orioles operate like. To raise because, to your point, as competitive as theyโve been, mostly for the last 15 years, they also havenโt won anything. So
Nestor Aparicio 30:06
So hereโs where the financial viability of all that really comes into play this time of year. And Bill would say, time for play, time for pay. Dude, I donโt know what their real revenue top line is. I can guess. I can talk to Kurt badenhausen. I can bring him on from sportacul like and I will do all of that in the off season. And we will put pencil to paper and say, Whatโs mass and doing? Iโll have Marty COVID. Iโll go to all the experts, as Iโve always done, and Iโll put a bean count on it to some degree. I hope the Baltimore banners doing this. I donโt expect the Baltimore Sun to do anything, but, but, but try to disrupt city politics. But I would say for me, theyโre going to have to be speculative loop to some degree, right? Like I donโt know how much money is coming in or where itโs coming from, but whatever it is, whatever it is right now, all of their Birdland this, and their sweet sales and whatever TJ Brightman assembled, and Greg Bader assembled, and whatever he has over at Madison. And they bring their bean counters in, and they whatever theyโre going to do with their talent. And when whoever Jim Hunter and Fred Manfred, theyโre going to shove out, or whatever Amber Theo Harris, theyโre going to bring in and whoโs going to sit where, and whoโs going to get paid what, and whatโs going to happen to Palmer, and just on and on and on, all the off season issues they
Luke Jones 31:28
have, including, we got $600 million from the government. How do we want to spend it? I was just going to say that thatโs a big part of the projection here, that that you have the renovations that are still, you know, they arenโt imminent in terms of being completed, obviously, and theyโre still going through that process, but that would have to be a massive part of the projecting out what your revenue is going to be. Not so much in 25 and 26 but 2829 3031, and again, that also coincides with some of these young players that you have, that you want to keep at least a couple of them, right? And mix in free agents and make trades, and do all the things that a good, viable, at least mid to upper mid market team would do, which I think, as Iโve always said to you for the better part of a couple years now, the St Louis Cardinals and what theyโve built over not in the present, because itโs kind of been dry for them the last couple years, but what theyโve been for the better part of 25 years is thatโs, thatโs what the Orioles should be aiming for. Itโs not going to become the Yankees or the Dodgers, payroll and revenue wise, theyโre not in that kind of market. But St Louis, which is not a gigantic market, even though they have a wide net to cast regionally, you know, in that part of the country, itโs still not a colossal media market, but theyโve been able to do very well, and theyโve been a team at different times thatโs been somewhere in the neighborhood of 11th, 10th, ninth, maybe as high as, like eighth in payroll in any given year, right? So I think, and I did this recently Nestor, and Iโm not going to bore you by going down the list and reading it, unless you want to hear it. I went back over the last 15 years of World Series I gave I looked at the World Series winner, and I looked at the World Series loser, and I looked at what they ranked in payroll. And you donโt have to be number one, you donโt have to be number two, you donโt have to be number five, I will say, with very few exceptions, Cleveland was 22nd back in 2016 as the World Series loser to the Cubs, obviously the rays and the very bizarre pandemic year that really shouldnโt even count. I mean, that was just such a strange Rockies got in one year, but it was a long time ago. The diamond, the diamond backs, were 20th a couple years ago. Obviously, getting in point is when you kind of look at it, if you really fancy yourself as a team, thatโs going to give yourself a great chance to win a World Series at some point here, and hopefully have multiple chances to do that, real chances, not just sneaking in as the last wild card and hoping that you catch lightning in a bottle, you kind of need to be at least top half of the league in payroll. I think thatโs probably a general rule of thumb there. That means you need to be well run to that means you need to have a good farm system. You have to be good in terms of recognizing what players you want to keep and also making, yeah, the occasional difficult decision to trade away someone rather than letting them walk for nothing, right? As we talked about with how the Orioles botched the Manny Machado thing when it was apparent they werenโt going to sign them long term, that they waited until the very end, and they got pennies on the dollar for him, you Snell Diaz and Dean Kramer, right? Dean Kramer, all they have to to write home for for what they got for Manny Machado years later. So you have to make those decisions, and some of those are tough decisions. And look, I mean, the Red Sox are still being killed years later for letting Mookie Betts go. I mean, even the Red Sox did something like that and and clearly the Red Sox have kind of paid a price, a darker period for relative to what theyโve been for most of my lifetime, anyway. So, so, you know, you always have to make tough decisions. And again, this doesnโt have to be go out and spend the most. Me, but they do need to recognize, hey, you need another top half of the rotation guy. If itโs not Corbin burns, fine, but you better go out and get someone thatโs going to be legit, that is going to slot in there, at least with Zach Eflin and Grayson Rodriguez, and then, you know, weโll see what happens on, you know, Kyle Bradish later.
Nestor Aparicio 35:20
And thatโs really where it becomes a shame that everything weโre talking about is really stacked upon the fact that these kids have gotten hurt, sure, radish wells, I mean, Batista in the bullpen, you know, means who itโs been so hurt that we havenโt talked about him as a thing. Rodriguez has been a bit of a you know, he has had some issues going on. And I when you lose that, and it cost $18 million a year to buy Zach Eflin for a minute, and even have, you have to throw some kids in on a trade to make that happen, or even when you want to rent Corbin burns for 31 starts, it cost you an all star shortstop that youโre not going to have for five years. A lot of teams, certainly not a lot of teams, this freaking poverty franchise here, that team angelos, ran for years. They never had an Ortiz to deal away and Warner Rodriguez, Iโm still talking about it. They got a relief pitcher, you know what I mean. So, like, donโt if itโs not on a value basis. I am 100% with everything youโre saying, which, by the way, Luke Jones, I would say this to you as a baseball person, if nobodyโs ever listened to you before and you came in, youโre preaching in the beginning, which to me, which was always that. Lee McPhail, you know, theyโll eat salisbury steak, so donโt feed them. Donโt feed them filet mignon. Donโt, donโt, donโt curb. Donโt start that appetite where you were, like, I they can spend money, but they just got to be smart money. That works whether youโre the Yankees or the Dodgers, although you have less of a curve for it Sure, or whether youโre the raise, is it smart money or is it not smart money to sign? Juan Soto, is it smart money or not? And Adley rutschman would have smelled real good a year ago. Jonathan scope would have smelled good at one right? We can go through Craig Worthington. I go through great the men of great promise, rocky Coppinger, you know,
Luke Jones 37:21
Nestor. How about the fact?
37:23
I mean, there
Luke Jones 37:24
is so much revisionist history on the Chris Davis contract, if you go back, look, there were absolutely some people out there who did not like that deal. But by and large, most Orioles fans, at least, that I came in contact. I have a screenshot at Don Mueller that would embarrass him. Absolutely happy. So again, there is a perfect example. And let me be very clear, I am not using that as an example to say, donโt spend money, but you need to spend wisely and look in a vacuum. Iโd love to see the Orioles sign Juan Soto because I absolutely do think when you consider his age, you consider his profile. I mean, this is a guy that with the NATs back in, like, 19 and 20 and, you know, before they dealt him, I mean, his earliest seasons, his age 20, age 21 season. You know, what the closest comp to him was in terms of how he was producing. It was Ted Williams at that age, like, I mean, just kind of crazy. I mean, weโre talking about absolute Hall of Fame talent, whether, whether heโs a little bit of a jerk or not. You know, with some of it, you know, some of the things weโve seen, even against the Orioles, you get over that real quick when heโs wearing your uniform. Letโs put it that way. But I also, country
Nestor Aparicio 38:38
bought the clown. Go and get the circus so you know. But Iโm
Luke Jones 38:42
also living in reality and understanding that, okay, the contract that itโs going to take to sign him, even for a major market team, that thereโs you have a more of a margin for error if, for whatever reason, he suffers a career altering injury at age 30. Well, the cops can afford him, you know, it could convince him heโll hit 50 there, right? Like but if itโs about money, if itโs about winning, youโll just stay in New York and make it happen. You know, I mean, all things being equal, letโs be clear. And this is where I do get annoyed with some of these small market teams. Any team in baseball could truly sign Juan Soto, if they wanted to right, if they wanted to the when you look at the revenue sharing that does exist and see how much money the pirates have banked and all these different small market teams for 30 years now, when you kind of look at the revenue sharing model, they all could sign, Juan Soto Now that said, What does that mean In terms of what your margin for error is and what your bottom line is, and what your reality is in terms of building around that player
Nestor Aparicio 39:47
and also your goals? Because, like, right now, right now, Mike Elias, if I had a second drink with him somewhere down at amicis or whatnot, we got to talk. And Iโd say, is Henderson signable? This all? Season or next, I mean, it, can you get a deal done in any way, or would it be too rich for your blood, too rich for Mr. Rubensteinโs blood, or for the payroll, or for just like where you are, and if you canโt get it done this off season, letโs give that money to Soto for now, until we come to work, because we need to. Weโre trying to build something here. Weโre trying to give Katie something to sell. Weโre trying to give the community something to build around. Weโre trying to provide certainty in an environment. Certainly sitting on top of this is the guy whoโs going to be running the country. Weโre trying to find certainty with things right in an uncertain world, youโre trying to find certainty in the baseball sense of the world, to say what, what makes us a contender. And to your point, pitching, pitching, pitching. And I donโt know where you know, and thatโs risk, risk, risk. Where it feels like when you get a wonder kind player, when you sign Ted Williams, even if you bought Manny Machado, you get the stats. You get what you get with him, but youโre getting a great player. All aside from what the rays did in signing a kid who had a criminal thing, go, go on, you know? And that happens as well. You want character ask Deshaun Watson in the Clevelandโs in the Houstonโs in the NFL. But just in a general sense, this is where the big picture of if weโre not going to sign our own guy, Hendersonโs not going to sign, and we donโt want to rush him right now. And holiday can wait a minute, and Iโm Mr. Moneybags and Mr. Eric Getty, moneybags, the hot dog guy and and we have, you know, weโre buying beer for the city. Youโre going to buy beer for the city. Donโt do what Peter did, but make us a place where we get the guy the Yankees want, yeah, we get a player the Yankees want. Then I feel like weโre somewhere, or weโre bidding in that world and not bidding and losing and talking ish about it like they did, like Angelus, when he was still upright and Spry enough to lie every day, right, which I remember vividly, which is weโre going to get to share, weโre going to offer him, weโre going to, Oh, we didnโt have, well, you know, we didnโt have enough. That was too much money. It was too much money. Well, thatโs basically what youโre saying, is itโs too much money because Juan Soto is going to help your team, you know, itโs going to help your television, going to help, you say, going to help your Latin community. Going to help, you know, just going to help the thing, whatever that is. So itโs a sockey, right? Like, it brings a whole different level of energy around to say weโre we can have good things too. We can have great players too. And I think asking for Henderson is a really high ask, because I just donโt, I think heโs at that place where he wants to see whatโs going on too. And Boris say, oh, new owner, young owner, cocky people. A lot of money brought in a gal from Seattle. Lot of transition there. Whoa, whoa, whoa, youโre Dude, youโre Gunnar Henderson. Youโre gonna, youโre gonna be fine. Somebodyโs gonna want to give you a trillion dollars later. Just go play ball. Just go play ball. Youโre fine. You know, you have, you have enough money, youโre fine. Thatโs what they have to say to these kids. Iโll get you a couple more, Iโll get you a Iโll get you a royal farm deal. You know what I mean, like, Iโll get you some more money. But go play ball, because you donโt want 300 million. Now, that could be 600 million later. Thatโs the way Boris always plays it. So I think, and he knows they need to make a splash to some degree. And the people here want certainty. And I brought up to Mr. Rubenstein to his face the 10,000 empty seats in the outfield and trauma here. I said, thereโs been trauma. To find trauma. I donโt know. I have my own personal battle. Look me up. Free the birds. Google it. Angeloโs, look it up. Thatโs my trauma. But thatโs not the city thatโs tuned out or didnโt want to come for $20 to see playoff games and arenโt all bought in for billion dollar leather seats behind home plate and boxes and all the stuff theyโre going to do once they kick you out of the press box and put you out in left field and build their grandstands and get their club whatever itโs going to be a couple 100 bucks a month to be a member, come down happy hours, whatever the business plan is, they they need to start it right away. Right now.
Luke Jones 44:17
Itโs already started, though. See a part of those. Iโm going to push back on this a little bit, and theyโve won two under two games the last two years, right
Nestor Aparicio 44:24
empty seats for playoff game, okay, but yeah, but
Luke Jones 44:28
it was also on the heels of three months of mediocrity, and weโve talked about all those issues, I think, see, the worst thing they could do to me is to overreact to that. They need to react without overreacting. And this is the point I keep making about, you know, just to go out and spend a bunch of money and to dude,
Nestor Aparicio 44:45
Iโm not asking him to sign David sige and Jeff COVID, when you are talking
Luke Jones 44:49
about Juan Soto over and over, we know thatโs not going to happen. And we see that,
Nestor Aparicio 44:53
oh, whoa, whoa. Right at right out of the gate, we know thatโs. Not going to happen. Okay, all right. I mean, I
Luke Jones 45:02
mean, do you really think itโs going to I mean, Iโll gladly be wrong. As I said, in a vacuum, Iโd love to,
Nestor Aparicio 45:09
I keep telling you this, though, and I donโt know what kind of owner I was telling you this a decade ago, though, if thatโs not possible, then you weโre not going to sign the best players weโre gonna sign, the players we can sign, or we can afford, or who like us enough, or give us a discount of some kind. See,
Luke Jones 45:27
you equate winning with spending the most money. I
Nestor Aparicio 45:30
donโt. I really
Luke Jones 45:31
donโt. You do not. You do because we had the same argument about this a decade ago. How
Nestor Aparicio 45:35
many times did I tell you the the Orioles? Okay, times they spent money they ended up spending it really stupidly, like, well, itโs an argument we canโt have with football, because in football, itโs how much can we spend? We know how much the pie is. We know how much the budget. By the
Luke Jones 45:49
way, the Ravens made up one of their biggest splashes theyโve made in free agency in recent years. Two of the biggest splashes were Earl Thomas and Marcus Williams. I mean, Iโm just, my point is drop the mic. And again, Iโm being, you know, Iโm being facetious to a point, but I continue to say this. And look, I donโt think Mike Elias, even if you handed him and said you can spend $300 million this off season, I donโt know if Mike Elias operates that way. And look, we can have a different discussion about that, if you want to, and Iโm but I think they want to be methodical. They want to build this, build this for the long run. They want this to be good for a long time. Yes, they need to react to what happened at the end of last year, but I donโt think theyโre going to overreact, nor should they overreact to that. And if theyโre
Nestor Aparicio 46:40
gonna operate under bone on bone. And Mr. Rubenstein made a reference to in this sport, we tend to baseball, you tend to spend what you make, you know what I mean. And thatโs how he would look at it in any business and say, Hey, I got an Ocean City, you know, bar and grow. That doesnโt make me secrets, right? You know what I mean. So I donโt hear that, but in the baseball vernacular, this is a massive change. After 30 years of you saying, We know thatโs not going to happen to saying, Well, somebodyโs going to sign and so why not us? And Mr. Big pants comes in and feels that way. I have no reason to believe one way or another, because I donโt think heโs sophisticated enough. I just think heโs going to do what heโs told based based on what what I where I am on this and I donโt really know what heโs told and whoโs running. Katie Griggs on the baseball side. Michael is to say, I want you bone on bone. If weโre bringing in 130 million, we spend 130 and thatโs it, or weโre going to spend 15% more than that. Somebody spend 142.5 somebody spend 142.5 like I donโt know what their formula would be. Thereโs a bob Leffler reference for some old schoolers there who love Bob. Bob Leffler. I donโt know what their formula is going to be, but I think theyโll have a formula, and I think itโll be way more traditional to your line of thinking, which is, well, we canโt have really nice things, but weโll have some things for this Christmas, but weโre not really the Rockefeller. Really
Luke Jones 48:08
nice things can be found for cheap, if youโre if youโre a good shopper or
Nestor Aparicio 48:12
sentimental, in my case, where Iโm finding old Houston Oiler belt buckles for 20 bucks.
Luke Jones 48:16
I just, again, I want to, Iโm pushing back just on the notion that, look, they need to have a good off season. Thereโs no question about that. But there is a, there is a very sound baseline here, right? This is not a team that went 75 and 87 and took a massive step backwards. They got hurt, right? They got hurt. If Kyle Bradish doesnโt get hurt if a couple other pitchers stay healthy, not all these guys, because thatโs not realistic. I just think itโs going
Nestor Aparicio 48:47
to cost them money that these guys got hurt, because theyโre going to, itโs going to cost a lot of money to think about another Kyle Bradish, and thatโs what they did with that. I mean, so they are going to have to spend some money just to, just to be clear, let alone to give that gunner Henderson money or holiday money or improve upon Santander, right?
Luke Jones 49:06
Right? I guess the point Iโm trying to make, and Iโm not saying that, you know, Iโm just saying this in a general sense, is, I donโt feel that this franchise needs major surgery from a roster building standpoint. They need, they need to add, thereโs no doubt about that. But again, for all of the the stuff we talked about in the second half of the season and how discipline, they won 91 games, they finished three games behind the Yankees, and the Yankees went to the World Series, right? This isnโt as though theyโre 20 games, but behind in the division, and theyโve got to do this and all theyโve got to spend like this, and theyโve got, they got to make good Iโm not nearly as interested in payroll as go out and add good baseball players, however you might do it. And it might be trading. It might be yes, signing some free agents. It might be looking at your farm system internally and seeing what you have there. And you. Because theyโve got I mean, do you want to sign someone and then Kobe Mayo continues to be blocked, for example? I mean, Iโm not ready to give up on the idea of Kobe mayo or Jackson holiday right? I mean, Iโm not signing guys to block those guys. Now, you might want to sign someone that is an insurance policy. It depends, and that might have been what Ryan OโHearn was at first base, maybe theyโre going to trade Ryan mountcastle this off season, for example. I guess the point Iโm trying
Nestor Aparicio 50:25
to speed with just plays out. And the confidence level of buying in selling tickets, spring training, hope and all of that is the season of hope that weโre even talking about Juan Soto or even talking about a contract for someone, and even talking about a team thatโs won 202 ball, you know, like all of these numbers that add up. Um, and
Luke Jones 50:49
part of what Iโm talking about here Nestor is sell what you already have better than you have. Gunner Henderson is a hell of a selling point, whether he has a long term deal yet or not. Gunner Henderson, still multiple years away from free agency, right? Heโs not a pending by stars here, right?
Nestor Aparicio 51:06
We have star players pile divers here.
Luke Jones 51:09
So some of what youโre talking about, and I believe me, I hear you. You want to invigorate your fan base, you want to galvanize the town, you want to get people excited. You donโt want to have a repeat of what happened in the wild card series. And again, I think so much of that had so much more to do with the three months of mediocre baseball and then the ridiculous scheduling that youโre asking people who even want to go and itโs like, I canโt take off work.
Nestor Aparicio 51:32
Look, Iโm not looking for a winter carnival where they signed Lee Smith in the morning, Roberto Alomar for lunchtime making and then the next day signed Jimmy key. You know thatโs not gonna happen. Theyโre not financially, but thereโs gonna be again, whatever the speculation is for what they think they can be when they grow up. They need to go five years deep into that and put 50 million a year into it now, and that 50 million year might look like Juan Soto if they canโt get it done with enter like, I donโt know what it looks like two pictures. I donโt know, but like, to your point, the way we used to think about this, well, there was nothing thatโs a poverty way of thinking about it. I hope theyโre not thinking about it that way. I hope theyโre not trying to get their payroll up to 22 and just pour them out their way through this because of the empty seats, because of the construction downtown? Oh sure, because of you on that President Trump, whatever they would, whatever they would come up with to say, why? Like you go back to the game. Was a bad time. It, dude, you had your whole life to think about a four oโclock playoff game on a Wednesday in October, and the ticket for 20 to rehash this, but I just think that youโre also making it way more simplistic than it was, because I know people. I know people who wanted to go to the game and they couldnโt because there werenโt enough of them that wanted to go. Thatโs my choice, sure, well, and I was one of them who would want to go, but, like, I have my own reason. I donโt go. I donโt know why anybody else that go. I donโt I havenโt done a straw poll, and I get all the idea, but it wasnโt as important as they would want this they should want it to be. Thatโs, thatโs all Iโm gonna say for all the effort they put into it. Then we look, Iโm gonna say this from my heart and I and itโs probably the reason I brought it up with Rubenstein, because youโd be like, You got 30 seconds with Rubenstein. What did you say to him more than I said to Bruce Springsteen, right? Like, literally. And, you know, I brought up those 10,000 empty seats at the playoff game because it bothers me. Sure, it should bother them, sure, at the same and that is what leads us to say we canโt have Juan Soto and we donโt have enough money for this and enough money for that, and weโre a poor city, and weโre this, and weโre it leads all into Baltimore, positive, like, right, all the way into, oh, we donโt get to have good things because we canโt afford them, because our
Luke Jones 53:53
sense of things. Thereโs a wide range here. I mean, thereโs absolutely a wide range here. And but to go to your point, the ravens, who have been far more successful for far longer in the modern era, in terms of, you know, from the late 90s on, right? Itโs no contest. We were talking about the fact that the Houston game, the Houston playoff game, how no one wanted to go right? So how much of thatโs the Orioles? How much of that is just the market in general? I donโt know. Again, Iโm not bashing Iโm just throwing it out there because we were talking about that. But again, the
Nestor Aparicio 54:29
$350 get in for the commander Steelers game once. I couldnโt believe it, but I like, literally, thatโs what it was to get in for ravens commanders a few and you know whatโs also well, you have money that people do have, that theyโre willing to spend on a football game right here down the road, whether theyโre wearing a gold hat or burgundy, whatever it is, right? It thatโs what leads into being affordability in baseball, in baseball, not football. Football packers get to play everybody. The Giants can get the same amount of money at stake and fly five times out and. Thing, you know, but in baseball, itโs different, and it gives us this latitude to discuss it. It is an open conversation for them, and certainly theyโre billionaires. Letโs not act like they canโt afford it and how deep theyโre going to go in. To be speculative, the clock begins now for Mr. Rubenstein and for whatever this thingโs going to be, and what they want it to be for the fans and dude, part of the commanders thing the other day for me, I watched the game on TV the whole, pretty much the whole game, because I was into it. And weโre playing the Steelers, and like all of that, the upper deck, it looks like they saw it off after the upper deck, like Iโve been in that stadium for concerts and football games, and going back to when Ray Lewis made a play and in the rain, 27 years ago. Now whatever, like, theyโve just tarped over seats and whatever that it feels like a little college stadium. It used to feel like this giant thing thatโs going to be the game too, right? Make the play smaller. Make it more. You know, those 10,000 empty seats will be taken away when the itโs only a 34,000 seat establishment, and thatโs how you get rid of 10,000 MP seats, and you make the demand more and, I mean, Iโll hear all of that, but as this off season goes for them, theyโre under special. What did they say about my press credential? They said I was under review. Theyโre under review. Sure,
Luke Jones 56:20
sure, but we can only go off of what we know at this point in time. And we talked about this at the trade deadline. Thatโs one reason I was heartened by it, even though I didnโt necessarily love all the actual moves that were made. They took on money at the trade deadline. They took on real money at the trade deadline. I mean, even the Eloy Jimenez deal, which, I mean, he ended up, he was good for two weeks, and he stunk. After that, we began the whole conversation. They gave money to the bullpen this week. They gave there was a there was an investment, there was a buyout involved. There. That buyout alone made that deal a total flop. I mean, they didnโt give up anything for him. Obviously, it was a complete, you know, White Sox said, Here, take them. We donโt want them anymore. Mr. Angelos
Nestor Aparicio 57:02
didnโt write $1.5 million checks for anything, not even Xavier Hernandez, but, but the point
Luke Jones 57:07
is, so with that, and again, you can only add so much money at the trade deadline, right? Itโs not free agency, but the fact that they took on what they took on there lends itself to the idea that, yeah, I expect them to be players in free agency. I donโt think itโs gonna be one Soto, but I think theyโre gonna go, I think theyโre gonna be, you know, and theyโre gonna sign a couple real players. Like, itโs gonna be guys where you say, Hey, I know that guy. Hey, heโs good. Hey, this isnโt the a plus acquisition, but I think this is a B plus, or it might be an A minus for the money and for the lack of long term commitment, because, well, you better hope Adley Rogers and a well that right, and holiday and mayo, the guys that are clever always going to be that was always going to be the case so Nestor. I mean, that was always, I mean, the Yankees times where they havenโt been as good itโs been when theyโve had some young players that were supposed to supplement and compliment some of their stars ended up not working out, right? I mean, look at Stanton. Canโt play judge gets hurt. I mean, look at the angles, yeah. So, so, I mean, the Dodgers, for all the money they spend, look at their farm system, and look at the young players that have come up and helped them over the years, right? I mean, they, they continue to have a great farm system. So again, itโs not just about money. And I know that you know that. I mean not a little bit of this is wrestling, you know, pro wrestling going back and forth. But for me, itโs not some arbitrary number that they have to hit from a payroll standpoint. Go make your club better, right? Youโve got a heck of a base here, even with how disappointing this was and how it finished up, and the fact that they got swept by the Royals and they scored one stinking run in two games. Thereโs still so much to like. And if youโre Katie Griggs, youโre looking at gunner Henderson and Adley rutschman and Jackson holiday and youโre saying, You know what, we still have a heck of a lot that we can sell here. We need to do it better. We need to come up with new ways to find people and reach people. But thatโs pretty darn good regardless of who we might go out and trade for or sign in the next three months. So there is so much to like thatโs already there, and thatโs why Iโve said over and over, react, but donโt overreact to what happened at the end of last year, because thereโs still so much to like, and thereโs still so much promise here, and thereโs still a heck of a farm system, even if you know it, maybe so many guys have graduated that. Okay, itโs not ranked first in baseball anymore, but thereโs still guys in the pipeline. Weโre gonna be talking about Sam basio. Theyโre their catcher who reached triple A at the end of last year. I donโt know if heโs gonna be a catcher or a first baseman or a DH, but itโs got a heck of a bat. So heโs gonna be in the mix, maybe not this year, maybe the end of this year. But you know that when I say this year 25 obviously Iโm talking so thereโs still a lot to like they should, and I emphasize should, and Iโm in agreement with you, when you have new ownership, and you consider how little theyโve spent at the end of the John Angelos era, and you. They should be ready to go out and make some splashes. It might not be a one Soto size splash, but hey, they added Corbin burns. They traded for Corbin burns. They paid him so much. Look what they paid Craig Kimbrel, even though that was a bad signing, as it turned out. So itโs not as though Mike Elias, you know, you sit here and say theyโre not going to add anything, but Be smart. Be smart. Go out. Itโs not about the money. For me, itโs go sign a good baseball player that you think is going to be really good for you this year, and depending on how long you sign them for that you think heโs going to be really good for the length of the contract, or at least close to it, right? Doesnโt mean itโs going to be Juan Soto. Doesnโt mean itโs going to be Corbin burns, but go look at the list of top 25 free agents. You can find guys lower on that list that I absolutely guarantee you would really, really help the Orioles win baseball games that arenโt going to cost $700 million like Juan Soto might get when itโs all said and done. So again, thereโs a wide range between being the rays and the Dodgers. Iโm hoping itโs somewhere closer, you know, past the halfway mark, closer to the Dodgers when itโs all said and done. I hope itโs on that side. I donโt know if itโs going to get there this off season, but yeah, if weโre sitting here on opening day and the Orioles have a payroll thatโs, you know, not considerably larger than it was last year, and weโre looking at the roster and the rotation looks, eh, and youโre still wishing they had a right handed hitting outfielder, and we
Nestor Aparicio 1:01:31
canโt be talking about Kyle Bradish next year and about, I mean, maybe weโre talking about because heโs back, but weโre not gonna, like, Iโm not gonna be crying about right means or wells or Bradish, Iโm not gonna like, I agree. Itโs not well. We used to have that anymore. Now itโs what do you have? They might as well be failed pitchers at this point that that didnโt make it or canโt make it, because they canโt. So whoโs going to Well, I mean,
Luke Jones 1:01:56
Kyle Bradish is still very much firmly in their plans. He just canโt be a yes for 2025 right? Itโs fine to say heโs a yes for 2026 and 27 and 28 but, yeah, youโre not expecting that. I mean, best case scenario, maybe Kyle Bradish can make some starts in August and September. So look, weโre going to see. I agree with you. You canโt use those as excuses, just like I didnโt want to get used Batista as an excuse this past year, because they knew in October that he wasnโt going to pitch in 24 and
Nestor Aparicio 1:02:24
they made an investment, and letโs hope the investments are better. Did I end on that? Did we just better than Craig Kimbrell from an investment money
Luke Jones 1:02:32
smartly. Spend money wisely. Donโt just spend it just because you want to spend it.
Nestor Aparicio 1:02:37
Wise conversation that made sounds like wise markets, one of our great sponsors, Luke Johnson, be found at Baltimore. Luke Yes, we talk baseball, even our Pittsburgh Ravens. Week, we can walk and chew gum at the same Iโm even going to talk about the government and fascism and give a little history lesson around here from time to time for the next four years and counting, or however long it takes as an American. So weโre in for that. Iโm going to have crab cakes. Iโm going to have oysters. Weโre going to celebrate Christmas, and weโre going to eat turkey and pumpkin pie, and Iโm going to go to ROFO and get some pumpkin spice coffee whenever I want. Iโm even going to have some eggnog at wise market. So happy holidays, everybody. Weโre getting up on things around here. I even my wife is a wise marketer. They did trees out like real Christmas trees. And Iโm thinking, How do I keep it alive for six weeks? But yes, I need more sunshine around here as the Ravens continue to win, and we hope that Mr. Rubenstein put some nice, nice presents under the tree, and the stockings are stuffed with free agents that are good signings, responsible signings. Iโm Nestor. We are wnsta in 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking baseball, even when they donโt want us to. Weโre Baltimore positive.