It’s an offseason of mystery not just for Baltimore Orioles fans but for everyone around Major League Baseball wondering where Juan Soto and many others will land. Luke Jones and Nestor get heated with some Hot Stove Orioles chatter as free agency looms and the new ownership comes under the microscope for messaging and intentions for the payroll of Mike Elias.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles offseason, free agency, Juan Soto, payroll increase, pitching needs, player injuries, new ownership, fan engagement, financial strategy, player contracts, market comparison, team improvements, player acquisitions, revenue impact, fan expectations
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. We are positively into another football week. It’s Pittsburgh, Baltimore week around here that will take precedent over all things, not turkey and cranberry and pumpkin pie and mince meat and all those good things. And, of course, crab cakes, the Maryland crab cake Tour presented by our friends at the Maryland lottery, out on the road all month long through the holidays, for shipping and for delivery for all your loved ones. This is the best time of the year where people argue. I like to faith these crab cake No, it’s across this crowd. No, it’s Coco’s. Ship them all to ship them all. It’s easy. And of course, we’re gonna be over state fair as well with our friends at Catonsville, and even a pizza Johns, where they ship crab cakes and pizza all over the country. We didn’t, didn’t learn that till we talk baseball. I think the last baseball conversation I had here was a pizza Johns. It was back when it was Dodgers versus Yankees. I don’t know that you and I even did a whole Requiem on the whole Freddie Freeman thing, and the whole how I almost went to Yankee Stadium for game five, and I didn’t, and I had a ticket on my thing, and it was going to be 80 degrees, and like all of that Luke baseball season, it feels so like, I mean, are we allowed to talk about it, or are we not? Do we have to pretend there isn’t an off season here anymore, like we did for like, 30 years?
Luke Jones 01:20
I mean, we could talk about it, and not a whole lot has happened. But, yeah, it’s been a minute since we’ve talked some baseball that I still can’t get over that Yankees fifth inning, right? I mean, Little League defense that leads to their demise and not being able to send the series back to Dodger Stadium, not putting that anxiety on the Dodgers and hey, I’m okay with it, right? I mean, it, if you’re going to root for the teams you know, have to root for one of the teams that has one of the highest payrolls in baseball, it’s not going to be the Yankees. So I was okay with the Dodgers winning. But
Nestor Aparicio 01:50
isn’t it funny, we were on the Red Sox side for a minute, and then then it was like, then now what do we do? Oh, yeah. I
Luke Jones 01:55
mean, it’s the, it’s the Batman line, right? I mean, you’re either the here, you know, you’re either the I now I’m, I’m blanking on it, but you live long enough you become the villain, right? I botched that there. Yes, that’s good. You
Nestor Aparicio 02:09
got it, right? But, yeah,
Luke Jones 02:10
you know, it’s certainly, it’s an interesting off season, right? We talked about this. I mean, we talked about this even before the season ended, when, I think in mid September, I think we had an idea that, yes, okay, the Orioles, anyone has a shot, you get in. I don’t think anyone was really feeling the vibes at that point. And they get swept, right? Didn’t score, couldn’t score. So where they go from here? I mean that we’ve had some decisions made as far as club options. You know, you and I haven’t had a chance. I think the most surprising development so far has not been the hitting coaches leaving or some of the changes on the coaching staff. I think you have that happen most of the time anyway. I think it was Danny cool not having his option picked up. You know, I wrote about that at Baltimore positive.com It was $4 million we know how big Danny coulomb was out of their bullpen the last couple years at face value, it doesn’t seem to make much sense, but you start to do some digging. His Velo was way down when he came back in September. I really wonder if this is as simple as they’re not optimistic about the health of his elbow and the fact that he’s 35 years old, and, you know, they have, well, they’re
Nestor Aparicio 03:23
not $4 million optimistic the way they were. How much did they sink into the bullpen last year? That didn’t, didn’t really make it through July.
Luke Jones 03:32
Yeah. Well, as specifically Craig Kimbrell, yeah. So look and Danny coulomb could be back at a cheaper rate. I mean, we’ll see how these things play out. But to me, that was the most surprising. I mean, Ryan O’Hearn back on an option, Sir Anthony Dominguez, maybe, maybe slightly surprising there. I know some people were debating whether the Orioles would spend $8 million for him, but hey, you have Felix Batista back, presumably healthy. I saw with my own eyes, he was throwing bullpens in early October at Camden Yards. So he should be full go for spring training, barring anything weird happening. So you have him, you have yen, your Cano, you have Sir Anthony Dominguez, that already on paper anyway, looks better bullpen wise,
Nestor Aparicio 04:17
if they had done that in the off season last year, adding some names before we got to march, maybe we would have thought differently about it. And now it’s, can they add more? But you’re like, we just gave Sir Anthony $8 million and you know, his this name’s ser like Elton John or Rod Stewart. You know, I do think there’s any look in, by the way, I met mister Rubinstein. Did I tell you this? No, I have you told you this? No, I didn’t know. Yeah. So things have happened to the baseball side. I mean literally so and big shout out to everybody. Beth the fellow who’s so kind to me the night that I was out there seeing mister Rubenstein give me. The speech that feels like he’s given 1000 times about his life story and his wealth and the Orioles and but nonetheless, I would say from a financial standpoint, and this is different you and I’ve had the argument this week about the Steelers and how how valuable a draft pick is, what you do with the trading deadline, what your resources are, and in the NFL, they do the best they can to make all the resources the same. It’s not because of you and I been to the Dallas facility. You see how much money teams can spend on non field related personnel and all sorts of ways. And everybody’s trying to keep up. I mean, Maryland went out and played Oregon this week, you know, like everybody’s keeping up and building and all of these sports and equal pay in the in the NFL, not equal at all in college football. And we see the imbalance baseball Dodger Yankees. And we say, as we do, our orange pride. And by the way, I looked at my closet here, this time of year, it’s really easy to find the the Oriole related stuff, and I’m wearing my curio wellness orange or Baltimore shirt. It’s like the only orange thing I have this time of year in my closet. So I I grab it, and I literally was in New York very quietly for a couple days after the election last week, just walking around pondering life and and I walk past the Major League Baseball store, which is a beautiful glass thing, and you go in and you there’s the Richmond Jersey, and there’s the gunner, you know, and there’s the cool swag they have that’s $389 that I’m not gonna buy, that’s stitched somewhere in Taiwan, probably for the great American game, but, but I had a good time just looking at it and feeling that baseball vibe and thinking of the off season. And again, I spent a whole evening on Monday with Mr. Rubenstein. I spent 45 minutes in the baseball store, you know, in the middle of Times Square, just looking around. I mean, I’m a baseball guy, and we talk about what keeps you involved, and part of that is you and I just doing a segment this week and saying, what did they do? What didn’t they do? What could they do? What’s Juan Soto going to do? And however long this can gets kicked on burns on, I mean, it looks like the Yankees had big, big news with Gary Cole that got sort of happened and flared very quickly, and we’re all good if there’s going to be a deal for any player around here, just going to happen, but it’s probably not going to happen quickly, not this time of year. That keeps it off of our tongue a little bit from talking about it. But there is the big question, which is, all right, you spent 8 million on an arm in the bullpen. How much are you going to spend? And it’s a different question for I think college football has this sort of open ended question in a lot of ways, for who’s going to spend, what on what? And I watch it on Saturdays, and I scratch my head, but I find the Orioles to be fascinating for what they’re going to value, how in charge Mike Elias is going to be and feel with new ownership, where the real pocket book is, where the real value is on international players. I mean, somebody’s going to sign this kid from overseas. It’s like, I’ve watched him throw and I’m like, Dude, that guy’s at least a two, if not a one, and probably going to sign on the West Coast, I guess, because that’s the way it goes. And what’s going to happen with Soto what’s going to happen with big contracts that are out there? And you wonder, are the Orioles a player? Are they not? Yeah, Mr. Rubenstein sat in front of me. I shook his hand, I talked to him. I had 30 seconds with him, and it’s so uneventful as to not I’m I mean, I guess I’ll talk about it at some point. I there’s really enough to the report. You know, of any substance, but nonetheless, I am wondering, and I will judge them on their actions, as to you can be a poverty franchise? Are you going to be trying to build something? You trying to build an upper deck? What’s Miss Griggs doing? How concerned are you about the 10,000 empty seats? Which is, I didn’t lead with that with Mr. Rubenstein, but I had about 30 seconds with him. That’s all he wanted to give me, and that’s cool, but I have a lot of questions, and every fan should who’s given their money, including the Birdland insiders. And you know, I’ve talked a lot of people about their their their financial involvement, but there’s no question my heart’s still very involved. You know what I mean, like, especially in all season when they can win and watching a World Series. I mean, you know how close I came to going to game five, I was all set up to go to game six and seven out in LA with Janet Marie and rooting for the Dodgers a little bit, and having, baseball be fun for me. I mean, you know, on a personal level, it’s not as much fun as it used to be for me, but I try to pick my moments. I mean, I did do 30 ballparks in 30 day. I mean, like, you know, and add it up, I only been to 43 World Series games. I said 47 I had the wrong number on that. But, you know, so I love baseball enough to spend a chill. Monday night out with Mr. Rubenstein enough to spend. I could have been anywhere in New York on an 80 degree day. I was in the baseball store goofing around, and I’m wondering who they’re going to be. I mean, that’s really my big like, there’s another thing with Angelo’s, although I did bring his name up with Mr. Rubenstein, because he asked me why I didn’t have a press pass. And I said, well, so I don’t this is their time to do whatever the Splash is. I don’t even, I don’t even, or whether they want to make a splash, or whether they think we’re not a splash team. Cardinals weren’t a splash team, and you know, we could be that, or whatever they’re gonna point as their PR North Star, whatever they’re going to pimp out on orioles.com and however, the corporate, because it feels like it’s gonna be very corporate. One thing I got from Mr. Rubenstein that I will share with you, that I haven’t shared publicly, it is, I guess the first time, he doesn’t really know a lot about baseball. You know what I mean? Like, if I were to sit with him, I would agree with Mr. Allman to say, I’m not gonna, like, ask him how many if Ben McDonald was his favorite pitcher in the 90s, because he’s been he was very upfront about having not watched baseball. He said he went to 38 baseball games this year. Was 38 more than he’s been through the last 50 years. He said, Yeah. So you know what I mean? Like, I don’t think he’s to blame. He is just the pocketbook and the guy they need to convince the unconvincible, which is give this. Give Soto, 600 million. You know what I mean? Like, I don’t, I don’t know how they value this. I don’t know how a 74 year old guy who keeps talking about it being a philanthropy, but needs to make money and wants to make money, he has 10,000 empty seats. Nobody knows how to connect to it on online. They’re more restrictive as a group. Mean, there’s all of this really high end stuff that I think he’s a really smart guy, can sit and talk about it, but I don’t think he, he bought this for kicks, dude. So asking him questions, I don’t think he really has the answers, and I’m not looking to embarrass him. You know what? I mean, like, but I don’t know how you sink 100 100, 50 million a year into this, more this, that value it, that’s Mike Elias. Is the value. And quite frankly, he never had, he never got to stay at the Four Seasons. He lived at the courtyard, and was fine with the courtyard and learned how to live there, but then they had order room service from there or and when all you’ve done is bad mouth. It like McPhail and say free agents, bad, bad, bad, too much wasted money, high risk arm, UCO ACL, Tommy John, you know, I hear you, but the fans are that are here that you need to satiate, need to see something that feels different. I don’t even know what the hell I’m talking about, but I’m just talking out loud because it’s November, and we’re talking baseball relevantly in a real non Angelo sense. For the first time since I went on the air in 1992 and 93 that I’ve lived long enough to survive it all. I do wonder what it looks like, and I’d love to have smart feet and I and again, I, with all due respect to Mr. Allman and Mr. Rubens, I don’t they’re not the ones that give me answers. I literally don’t expect to sit next to them right now. And I know more about baseball than Mr. Rubenstein, I promise you. I The history of it, where the money the flow. I just I think he’s a really wealthy guy who’s having a good time with this. And I don’t I gotta hold him responsible, but like, I have a lot of questions that need to be answered, and the fans need to be answered. It’s going to be on display and judged in the coming months as to great players are available if you want to pay that price, and you have a couple of your own, and we’re in it for real. Now. There’s no more John boy, and Peter’s not here anymore. And oh, Chris Davis, and what are we going to do with macha? They got a real situation here. They they can win multiple championships, if they figure it out. And I think they can rebuild the city and all that stuff, and maybe even get some Hispanic people there, some African American people to the games. But all that aside, and all my snarkiness aside, this is really ripe with opportunity and really rich guys that say, I’m really rich and we have the money, they keep saying that. Well, then go sign one Soto, and let’s move your payroll to 145 million and suck it up. And let’s go. Let’s go play. I mean, I don’t, I don’t know what else to say, because you’re either going to put big boy pants on or you’re going to force me and Luke to sit here and say, well, they’re trying harder, but they’re a poverty franchise. I mean, some point you got to sign somebody
Luke Jones 14:40
Sure. Well, and in fairness to them, they brought in Corbin burns last year on a trade, and he made money. Zach Evelyn’s gonna make real money this year, or realer money than what we’ve been talking about here in recent years. So by
Nestor Aparicio 14:55
the way, you’re making great points, and we’re not the PR firm for that. Them, right? They really have made those strides. I mean, they were, I mean, great baseball in October, you know, right? And this
Luke Jones 15:07
is where we need to strike the right, the proper balance. And when I say we, I just mean, generally speaking, you know, fans, media, whoever, just observe, objective observers. I mean, this is still a team that has a lot going for it. And I even just saw it, I think it was mlb.com and I can’t remember the athletic it was a national outlet, and they were ranking the current rosters around baseball, and the Orioles were still ranked very highly. I think they were fourth, fifth, something like that, because of all their young talent, right? There’s still a lot to love about this baseball team, but, and you know your first point about Rubenstein not knowing a whole lot about baseball, I’m okay with that. Because honestly, if you have an owner who knows a whole lot about baseball, what also do you run the risk of having happen? They get involved, they meddle, they start thinking they’re smarter than the general manager they hire right? So I can see both sides to that argument there. I think the big question, and you said it, I mean, this is, this is clearly, this is not something that a man with at the age of David Rubenstein comes in and just says, I’m going to buy this and I don’t care about winning whatsoever. I just want to turn a profit. Now, whenever he or his family, or whoever you know, the rest of the ownership group, however it plays out, you know, I mean, maybe this group owns the team for the next 20 years. Who knows? Even after David Rubenstein’s long gone, right? I mean, you don’t we? None of us know how long we’re going to be on this earth. To be clear, but clearly that it’ll be profitable, because that’s just how these things appreciate. You know, even the the bad franchises appreciate in value, because it’s just a cash cow in that way. But what does he want it to be? You know, does he want to truly win a World Series? Does he just want to kind of ride the wave of what’s already started under Mike Elias and what had started under the previous regime, because they drafted well, and they had early draft picks and and all that. So I want to be clear here, though, look in a vacuum, going out and signing one soda would be amazing, right? And I’m not even saying that they couldn’t go out and do that in a vacuum, practically speaking, and understanding priors and all of that. You and I certainly aren’t holding our breath for that to happen. But I’ll also point out there’s a wide range there. It is, a very wide net between being not even the A’s, because the A’s are a different category right now. Say the rays right who I think are projected to be 26th in payroll this coming year. And again, that’s so early, those projections don’t mean much right now, to be the rate between the rays and signing Juan Soto right and and taking your payroll to that range instantly, knowing that all these young players you have are also going to get more and more expensive over the next few years. So there’s a wide so this
Nestor Aparicio 17:58
is what I would like to sit down with Miss Griggs and say, Are you, I mean, what’s real here? You know, what is the promise of broad fans here? But
Luke Jones 18:05
you know, they’re not going to broadcast that, because, for one thing, you start doing that, you’re already negotiating against yourself, against potential free agents, right? So, so they’re not going to do that. But my point with that and burns is a much better example here. Okay, I’ve even said to you at different points, even if, if I were a general manager, and let’s say I wasn’t the Dodgers, but let’s say I was a team that had a top half of the league payroll. I’ll be totally honest with you, Nestor, I’m not sure I’d spend what Corbin Burns is going to get in free agency. Again, his strikeout rate has dropped four straight years. He was great at at the very end of the season, but as recently as August, we were saying, what’s going on with Corbin burns? Right? He had a very good year, but it wasn’t 2021 peak Corbin burns. So my point in that is not trashing or tearing down Corbin burns. Let me be very clear my I’m working under the assumption that someone is going to give him a seven year deal, and maybe they won’t, and if they and if they don’t, then shame on the Orioles, if they’re not in on it, if he only gets a four year deal, then we’re having a much different conversation. But I’m working under that assumption, because Scott Boris is going to do what Scott Boris is going to do and and part of that is also going to be that Corbin burns probably isn’t going to sign before Valentine’s Day,
Nestor Aparicio 19:19
or he might not have till May
Luke Jones 19:23
never, right? You never know. So my point with with saying that is okay, even if it’s not Corbin burns, you just mentioned Sasaki. We just found out just a couple days ago, he is going to be posted. He with him being younger, he’s not the guy that’s going to get, you know, a Yamamoto nine figure kind of contract. You kind of look at the Orioles and bonus pool money, and you know, there’s been some question as far as whether he’ll sign before the date that goes into the 2025 international signing period. So, but the point is, the Orioles now, it’s going to be a tough sell job, because the Dodgers obviously have had a history. Luke, Luke, we moved
Nestor Aparicio 20:01
the wall back. We moved the wall back. But
Luke Jones 20:03
I’m talking more so in terms of the history of, you know, Asian players signing it, no, I
Nestor Aparicio 20:09
don’t think there’s any question that there’s, you know, I don’t want to say there’s a bias, but it’s more than a trend, you know. I mean, you know, so
Luke Jones 20:15
culture is part of that, you know, what region I mean, being on the West Coast compared to, you know, obviously the proxy, you know, problem,
Nestor Aparicio 20:21
nobody dreams to resup, dreaming of being an Oriole, not even Little Rock Arkansas, not
Luke Jones 20:26
in Japan, certainly not in Japan, right? So, but that said, that’s an option. I I’ve mentioned growing
Nestor Aparicio 20:34
up, wanting to be watching in general. I
Luke Jones 20:38
mean, you never know, right? And some of that, everybody wanted to be a glove Trotter.
Nestor Aparicio 20:41
Everybody wants me, yeah, wants to be Yankee or dodger. My people are from Venezuela. Nobody dreamed of being an Indian, even though they had some good ones or even some White Sox and they had a Hall of Fame one but, but at
Luke Jones 20:51
the same time, their money still their money still counts, right? Their money still works so but, you know, there’s Blake Snell, there’s Kikuchi from the Astros, right? He went over from Toronto. Everyone scratched their head and said, Wow, Houston paid way too much. Did you see how he pitched for the Astros? He was outstanding. So he’s older. He’s not a guy that’s going to get a nine figure, long term contract, but these are the kind of pitchers, and you know, Blake Snells, 32 he’s not going to get burns money if we’re assuming Burns is going to get somewhere in the in the vicinity of what Scott Boris wants, but he’s still going to get really good money. So I don’t need it to be top of the market. I don’t need to see the Orioles sign Juan Soto or even Corbin burns at the same time. You got to go out and get a legitimate starting pitcher, or, in the case of, you know, maybe they’re not looking for a left handed outfielder, but I’ve seen this name mentioned, even though he’s probably, you know, he’s made it clear he’d like to resign in LA but TI. Oscar Hernandez, right handed hitting outfielder. He’s older. I get that he’s not going to be like a crazy long contract, but just won a World Series. Has played in the World Series before. He’s got a profile, he’s got swing and miss, but he also draws walks. Now, playing in Baltimore with the big left field wall, he’s not going to hit 30 home runs, but he could still hit 20.
Nestor Aparicio 22:09
I don’t think you win a bidding war with the Dodgers for him, but it’s a question as to whether you’d want him or Santander with price. Right, right, right.
Luke Jones 22:16
And again, you know he’s not going to be the biggest ticket market out there, right? I mean, he’s not the big ticket signing out there, right? There’s, again, there’s a big range here. I want to see the Orioles spend money too, but I don’t want to see them spend it foolishly. I want to see them spend wisely. I would much rather see a scenario where they meant they signed a couple of these. I don’t even know a second tier is the right turn. They’re not Premier, but they’re still top tier. Kind of guys sign a guy like that, and how about resign gunner Henderson to a contract extension? You want to talk about something that will vital. You know that will is that, I
Nestor Aparicio 22:56
mean, I like, I would not bring that up with Mr. Rubenstein as a possibility of holding them responsible for what happens when Boris is involved, you know, I mean, I
Luke Jones 23:08
hear you, don’t get me wrong.
Nestor Aparicio 23:10
I’m not where we start. Give me the negotiation. Jerry Maguire, you’re
Luke Jones 23:14
talking about a 12 or 13 year deal. I mean, go see what Bobby Witt signed for with the Royals, and then more than that, right? I mean, that’s what you’re talking about here. But I would also say this, look, the Scott Boris thing, it is what it is, right? It’s challenging. I’m not going to sit here. I’m not sitting here and saying that snap your fingers and gunner Henderson is going to sign a 12 year deal. But that doesn’t mean you don’t try either. That doesn’t mean that you don’t put your chips on the table and attempt and see what it looks like, and understand that this is the kind of player that is a shortstop. It’s 23 years old, even if he has to move to third base when he hits age 29 you’re still talking about a guy that should be a very viable player for the next decade. And when I say very viable, I mean superstar caliber. You know what MANNY What Manny Machado has been even to this point in his career as he’s now on the other side of third
Nestor Aparicio 24:05
and you love the kid by all, by all exactly measurements, right?
Luke Jones 24:10
And I’ll remind everyone you know, Scott Boris works for the player, not the other way around. And look, I understand that’s a deliberate hire that players make, and Scott Boris gives them cover, right? And so many of these guys, I mean, it kind of is what it is, but it’s not as though there has never been a player that’s been a Scott Boris client that has signed an extension. So look, whether it’s gunner, whether it’s, I don’t know. I don’t even know who the at this point out, unless Adley rutschman has given me a really good discount. I have no interest in signing him, Adley rutschman, to an extension based on the second half he just had. I gotta. I don’t
Nestor Aparicio 24:47
think he can. What the heck happened? We went from talking about that to not I mean, that’s a non starter for me, right? I
Luke Jones 24:54
mean, understanding probably what the money would be to even get him to the table, right? Um. Uh, you know, is Jordan Westberg, that guy. Look, Jackson holidays could still be that guy. And look, that doesn’t mean Jackson holidays getting a 13 year deal, let’s be clear. But we’ve seen players that right, either right before they make the majors or right after they arrive, sign and you can buy out a couple years of free agency, right? So, but the point is, with all of this, and I think your point’s well taken, regardless of what the arbitrary number would be in elevating the payroll, it’s going to go up, because look at all the guys they have in arbitration. I mean, it went up from 22 to 23 and 20
Nestor Aparicio 25:35
look, they can spin all their science about how many sky boxes are going to sell and how many tickets are going to have, and how many subscriptions are in, and whatever, they didn’t Seattle, that Miss Griggs, that out there or in Atlanta with her, her soccer background, and whatever, whatever they’re going to be as a grown up business, I learned last Monday night over bet the fellow, it’s not going to be, because Mr. Rubenstein has an office down the hall and is really taking a, you know, a full on, full on approach on baseball in his life, you know, like I and so for me, this is all I’ve done for 30 years. It’s like Dan Connolly said to John a last year, like, what do you know about this? Don’t I know about this? Sitting you’re talking about this every day in lawsuit. I mean, the first question for them is the massive lawsuit, and trying to figure that out, because that was always the encumbrance with all the other partners, and figuring out what’s their market, what’s our market? Now that Daniels is doing what he’s doing down there, we sat around and watched Washington and Pittsburgh and terrible piles being thrown around at 30 minutes from where I live, that the two markets, they have to figure that out fundamentally from the top, and then what’s left for the Orioles and what the because they’re being counting this dude in some way because of the right it’s all pie in the sky to sign Juan Soto. But there is a point where they’re like, let’s throw another 50 million a year at it for five years, amortized over the middle there, it’s a quarter of a billion dollars. And when we sell the thing, it’s going to be worth 3.8 but the government just gave us 600 million toward this thing. Let’s go. I’m 74, years old. I want to win. Let’s go. Yeah, that could happen that. I mean, that’s not far it was really far fetched with John Angela. So far fetched. I’ve never said those words out loud. But now that we’re here, and now that I’ve met Mr. Rubenstein and seeing what this is a toy. It’s this Disney World. It’s supposed to be fun. Tell you what, dude, it’s a whole lot more fun when you win. What makes us win better players with a pipeline and a thought, no better players, like we’re good enough now we need better players.
Luke Jones 27:47
I’ll push back a little The pipeline’s still important, because you don’t want this. You have said this over and over. I remember you saying this a decade ago. You also don’t want to be the Kansas City Royals, where you say, Okay, you catch lightning in a bottle, you win a World Series. It’s great, and fans are excited and jacked up about it for two years, and then it just falls right back into where it was before. So I’ll push back on the play. Well, donor
Nestor Aparicio 28:11
Steeler ravens week. If we say nothing about the Steelers and nothing about the ravens, They never go into a black hole. This franchise has been a black hole for three decades. So I’m trying to figure out what their plan is based on what I’m seeing. Because, to your point, they’re never going to speak to me, and if they do, are they really going to be honest anyway? They’re going to be judged by their actions just based on the fact that you have a press pass and I don’t, and that they have national Hispanic Awareness Month, and I’m, you know, I can’t even ask a question. So the questions I have are very legitimate, from a fan standpoint, civic standpoint, taxpayers time I invested in all of this, media standpoint, all of it, witnessing it all, get your sea legs under you, but while you get your sea legs under you, don’t let Juan Soto sign with the Blue Jays. You know what I mean, like, then you got to go compete with them. And there is a point where we saw the Yankees and Dodgers. And it’s not going to be that way every year, but, man, it is a have and have not kind of business over the long haul of what. Moneyball was a great movie, it was a good book. Didn’t win buckets, pardon my French.
Luke Jones 29:22
I mean, I hear you at the same time. I mean, the Orioles aren’t going to have a top five pay. We know that, right? I mean, again, we could sit here and howl at the moon about signing whatever free agent you want to sign, Juan Soto or whoever. I mean, they’re not. Going, I can’t sit here with any level of objectivity and say that I expect, or even say that the Orioles will be in on that, on that specific that contract. But again, there’s a big difference between that and operating like the rays. You know, I don’t want to see the Orioles operate like. To raise because, to your point, as competitive as they’ve been, mostly for the last 15 years, they also haven’t won anything. So
Nestor Aparicio 30:06
So here’s where the financial viability of all that really comes into play this time of year. And Bill would say, time for play, time for pay. Dude, I don’t know what their real revenue top line is. I can guess. I can talk to Kurt badenhausen. I can bring him on from sportacul like and I will do all of that in the off season. And we will put pencil to paper and say, What’s mass and doing? I’ll have Marty COVID. I’ll go to all the experts, as I’ve always done, and I’ll put a bean count on it to some degree. I hope the Baltimore banners doing this. I don’t expect the Baltimore Sun to do anything, but, but, but try to disrupt city politics. But I would say for me, they’re going to have to be speculative loop to some degree, right? Like I don’t know how much money is coming in or where it’s coming from, but whatever it is, whatever it is right now, all of their Birdland this, and their sweet sales and whatever TJ Brightman assembled, and Greg Bader assembled, and whatever he has over at Madison. And they bring their bean counters in, and they whatever they’re going to do with their talent. And when whoever Jim Hunter and Fred Manfred, they’re going to shove out, or whatever Amber Theo Harris, they’re going to bring in and who’s going to sit where, and who’s going to get paid what, and what’s going to happen to Palmer, and just on and on and on, all the off season issues they
Luke Jones 31:28
have, including, we got $600 million from the government. How do we want to spend it? I was just going to say that that’s a big part of the projection here, that that you have the renovations that are still, you know, they aren’t imminent in terms of being completed, obviously, and they’re still going through that process, but that would have to be a massive part of the projecting out what your revenue is going to be. Not so much in 25 and 26 but 2829 3031, and again, that also coincides with some of these young players that you have, that you want to keep at least a couple of them, right? And mix in free agents and make trades, and do all the things that a good, viable, at least mid to upper mid market team would do, which I think, as I’ve always said to you for the better part of a couple years now, the St Louis Cardinals and what they’ve built over not in the present, because it’s kind of been dry for them the last couple years, but what they’ve been for the better part of 25 years is that’s, that’s what the Orioles should be aiming for. It’s not going to become the Yankees or the Dodgers, payroll and revenue wise, they’re not in that kind of market. But St Louis, which is not a gigantic market, even though they have a wide net to cast regionally, you know, in that part of the country, it’s still not a colossal media market, but they’ve been able to do very well, and they’ve been a team at different times that’s been somewhere in the neighborhood of 11th, 10th, ninth, maybe as high as, like eighth in payroll in any given year, right? So I think, and I did this recently Nestor, and I’m not going to bore you by going down the list and reading it, unless you want to hear it. I went back over the last 15 years of World Series I gave I looked at the World Series winner, and I looked at the World Series loser, and I looked at what they ranked in payroll. And you don’t have to be number one, you don’t have to be number two, you don’t have to be number five, I will say, with very few exceptions, Cleveland was 22nd back in 2016 as the World Series loser to the Cubs, obviously the rays and the very bizarre pandemic year that really shouldn’t even count. I mean, that was just such a strange Rockies got in one year, but it was a long time ago. The diamond, the diamond backs, were 20th a couple years ago. Obviously, getting in point is when you kind of look at it, if you really fancy yourself as a team, that’s going to give yourself a great chance to win a World Series at some point here, and hopefully have multiple chances to do that, real chances, not just sneaking in as the last wild card and hoping that you catch lightning in a bottle, you kind of need to be at least top half of the league in payroll. I think that’s probably a general rule of thumb there. That means you need to be well run to that means you need to have a good farm system. You have to be good in terms of recognizing what players you want to keep and also making, yeah, the occasional difficult decision to trade away someone rather than letting them walk for nothing, right? As we talked about with how the Orioles botched the Manny Machado thing when it was apparent they weren’t going to sign them long term, that they waited until the very end, and they got pennies on the dollar for him, you Snell Diaz and Dean Kramer, right? Dean Kramer, all they have to to write home for for what they got for Manny Machado years later. So you have to make those decisions, and some of those are tough decisions. And look, I mean, the Red Sox are still being killed years later for letting Mookie Betts go. I mean, even the Red Sox did something like that and and clearly the Red Sox have kind of paid a price, a darker period for relative to what they’ve been for most of my lifetime, anyway. So, so, you know, you always have to make tough decisions. And again, this doesn’t have to be go out and spend the most. Me, but they do need to recognize, hey, you need another top half of the rotation guy. If it’s not Corbin burns, fine, but you better go out and get someone that’s going to be legit, that is going to slot in there, at least with Zach Eflin and Grayson Rodriguez, and then, you know, we’ll see what happens on, you know, Kyle Bradish later.
Nestor Aparicio 35:20
And that’s really where it becomes a shame that everything we’re talking about is really stacked upon the fact that these kids have gotten hurt, sure, radish wells, I mean, Batista in the bullpen, you know, means who it’s been so hurt that we haven’t talked about him as a thing. Rodriguez has been a bit of a you know, he has had some issues going on. And I when you lose that, and it cost $18 million a year to buy Zach Eflin for a minute, and even have, you have to throw some kids in on a trade to make that happen, or even when you want to rent Corbin burns for 31 starts, it cost you an all star shortstop that you’re not going to have for five years. A lot of teams, certainly not a lot of teams, this freaking poverty franchise here, that team angelos, ran for years. They never had an Ortiz to deal away and Warner Rodriguez, I’m still talking about it. They got a relief pitcher, you know what I mean. So, like, don’t if it’s not on a value basis. I am 100% with everything you’re saying, which, by the way, Luke Jones, I would say this to you as a baseball person, if nobody’s ever listened to you before and you came in, you’re preaching in the beginning, which to me, which was always that. Lee McPhail, you know, they’ll eat salisbury steak, so don’t feed them. Don’t feed them filet mignon. Don’t, don’t, don’t curb. Don’t start that appetite where you were, like, I they can spend money, but they just got to be smart money. That works whether you’re the Yankees or the Dodgers, although you have less of a curve for it Sure, or whether you’re the raise, is it smart money or is it not smart money to sign? Juan Soto, is it smart money or not? And Adley rutschman would have smelled real good a year ago. Jonathan scope would have smelled good at one right? We can go through Craig Worthington. I go through great the men of great promise, rocky Coppinger, you know,
Luke Jones 37:21
Nestor. How about the fact?
37:23
I mean, there
Luke Jones 37:24
is so much revisionist history on the Chris Davis contract, if you go back, look, there were absolutely some people out there who did not like that deal. But by and large, most Orioles fans, at least, that I came in contact. I have a screenshot at Don Mueller that would embarrass him. Absolutely happy. So again, there is a perfect example. And let me be very clear, I am not using that as an example to say, don’t spend money, but you need to spend wisely and look in a vacuum. I’d love to see the Orioles sign Juan Soto because I absolutely do think when you consider his age, you consider his profile. I mean, this is a guy that with the NATs back in, like, 19 and 20 and, you know, before they dealt him, I mean, his earliest seasons, his age 20, age 21 season. You know, what the closest comp to him was in terms of how he was producing. It was Ted Williams at that age, like, I mean, just kind of crazy. I mean, we’re talking about absolute Hall of Fame talent, whether, whether he’s a little bit of a jerk or not. You know, with some of it, you know, some of the things we’ve seen, even against the Orioles, you get over that real quick when he’s wearing your uniform. Let’s put it that way. But I also, country
Nestor Aparicio 38:38
bought the clown. Go and get the circus so you know. But I’m
Luke Jones 38:42
also living in reality and understanding that, okay, the contract that it’s going to take to sign him, even for a major market team, that there’s you have a more of a margin for error if, for whatever reason, he suffers a career altering injury at age 30. Well, the cops can afford him, you know, it could convince him he’ll hit 50 there, right? Like but if it’s about money, if it’s about winning, you’ll just stay in New York and make it happen. You know, I mean, all things being equal, let’s be clear. And this is where I do get annoyed with some of these small market teams. Any team in baseball could truly sign Juan Soto, if they wanted to right, if they wanted to the when you look at the revenue sharing that does exist and see how much money the pirates have banked and all these different small market teams for 30 years now, when you kind of look at the revenue sharing model, they all could sign, Juan Soto Now that said, What does that mean In terms of what your margin for error is and what your bottom line is, and what your reality is in terms of building around that player
Nestor Aparicio 39:47
and also your goals? Because, like, right now, right now, Mike Elias, if I had a second drink with him somewhere down at amicis or whatnot, we got to talk. And I’d say, is Henderson signable? This all? Season or next, I mean, it, can you get a deal done in any way, or would it be too rich for your blood, too rich for Mr. Rubenstein’s blood, or for the payroll, or for just like where you are, and if you can’t get it done this off season, let’s give that money to Soto for now, until we come to work, because we need to. We’re trying to build something here. We’re trying to give Katie something to sell. We’re trying to give the community something to build around. We’re trying to provide certainty in an environment. Certainly sitting on top of this is the guy who’s going to be running the country. We’re trying to find certainty with things right in an uncertain world, you’re trying to find certainty in the baseball sense of the world, to say what, what makes us a contender. And to your point, pitching, pitching, pitching. And I don’t know where you know, and that’s risk, risk, risk. Where it feels like when you get a wonder kind player, when you sign Ted Williams, even if you bought Manny Machado, you get the stats. You get what you get with him, but you’re getting a great player. All aside from what the rays did in signing a kid who had a criminal thing, go, go on, you know? And that happens as well. You want character ask Deshaun Watson in the Cleveland’s in the Houston’s in the NFL. But just in a general sense, this is where the big picture of if we’re not going to sign our own guy, Henderson’s not going to sign, and we don’t want to rush him right now. And holiday can wait a minute, and I’m Mr. Moneybags and Mr. Eric Getty, moneybags, the hot dog guy and and we have, you know, we’re buying beer for the city. You’re going to buy beer for the city. Don’t do what Peter did, but make us a place where we get the guy the Yankees want, yeah, we get a player the Yankees want. Then I feel like we’re somewhere, or we’re bidding in that world and not bidding and losing and talking ish about it like they did, like Angelus, when he was still upright and Spry enough to lie every day, right, which I remember vividly, which is we’re going to get to share, we’re going to offer him, we’re going to, Oh, we didn’t have, well, you know, we didn’t have enough. That was too much money. It was too much money. Well, that’s basically what you’re saying, is it’s too much money because Juan Soto is going to help your team, you know, it’s going to help your television, going to help, you say, going to help your Latin community. Going to help, you know, just going to help the thing, whatever that is. So it’s a sockey, right? Like, it brings a whole different level of energy around to say we’re we can have good things too. We can have great players too. And I think asking for Henderson is a really high ask, because I just don’t, I think he’s at that place where he wants to see what’s going on too. And Boris say, oh, new owner, young owner, cocky people. A lot of money brought in a gal from Seattle. Lot of transition there. Whoa, whoa, whoa, you’re Dude, you’re Gunnar Henderson. You’re gonna, you’re gonna be fine. Somebody’s gonna want to give you a trillion dollars later. Just go play ball. Just go play ball. You’re fine. You know, you have, you have enough money, you’re fine. That’s what they have to say to these kids. I’ll get you a couple more, I’ll get you a I’ll get you a royal farm deal. You know what I mean, like, I’ll get you some more money. But go play ball, because you don’t want 300 million. Now, that could be 600 million later. That’s the way Boris always plays it. So I think, and he knows they need to make a splash to some degree. And the people here want certainty. And I brought up to Mr. Rubenstein to his face the 10,000 empty seats in the outfield and trauma here. I said, there’s been trauma. To find trauma. I don’t know. I have my own personal battle. Look me up. Free the birds. Google it. Angelo’s, look it up. That’s my trauma. But that’s not the city that’s tuned out or didn’t want to come for $20 to see playoff games and aren’t all bought in for billion dollar leather seats behind home plate and boxes and all the stuff they’re going to do once they kick you out of the press box and put you out in left field and build their grandstands and get their club whatever it’s going to be a couple 100 bucks a month to be a member, come down happy hours, whatever the business plan is, they they need to start it right away. Right now.
Luke Jones 44:17
It’s already started, though. See a part of those. I’m going to push back on this a little bit, and they’ve won two under two games the last two years, right
Nestor Aparicio 44:24
empty seats for playoff game, okay, but yeah, but
Luke Jones 44:28
it was also on the heels of three months of mediocrity, and we’ve talked about all those issues, I think, see, the worst thing they could do to me is to overreact to that. They need to react without overreacting. And this is the point I keep making about, you know, just to go out and spend a bunch of money and to dude,
Nestor Aparicio 44:45
I’m not asking him to sign David sige and Jeff COVID, when you are talking
Luke Jones 44:49
about Juan Soto over and over, we know that’s not going to happen. And we see that,
Nestor Aparicio 44:53
oh, whoa, whoa. Right at right out of the gate, we know that’s. Not going to happen. Okay, all right. I mean, I
Luke Jones 45:02
mean, do you really think it’s going to I mean, I’ll gladly be wrong. As I said, in a vacuum, I’d love to,
Nestor Aparicio 45:09
I keep telling you this, though, and I don’t know what kind of owner I was telling you this a decade ago, though, if that’s not possible, then you we’re not going to sign the best players we’re gonna sign, the players we can sign, or we can afford, or who like us enough, or give us a discount of some kind. See,
Luke Jones 45:27
you equate winning with spending the most money. I
Nestor Aparicio 45:30
don’t. I really
Luke Jones 45:31
don’t. You do not. You do because we had the same argument about this a decade ago. How
Nestor Aparicio 45:35
many times did I tell you the the Orioles? Okay, times they spent money they ended up spending it really stupidly, like, well, it’s an argument we can’t have with football, because in football, it’s how much can we spend? We know how much the pie is. We know how much the budget. By the
Luke Jones 45:49
way, the Ravens made up one of their biggest splashes they’ve made in free agency in recent years. Two of the biggest splashes were Earl Thomas and Marcus Williams. I mean, I’m just, my point is drop the mic. And again, I’m being, you know, I’m being facetious to a point, but I continue to say this. And look, I don’t think Mike Elias, even if you handed him and said you can spend $300 million this off season, I don’t know if Mike Elias operates that way. And look, we can have a different discussion about that, if you want to, and I’m but I think they want to be methodical. They want to build this, build this for the long run. They want this to be good for a long time. Yes, they need to react to what happened at the end of last year, but I don’t think they’re going to overreact, nor should they overreact to that. And if they’re
Nestor Aparicio 46:40
gonna operate under bone on bone. And Mr. Rubenstein made a reference to in this sport, we tend to baseball, you tend to spend what you make, you know what I mean. And that’s how he would look at it in any business and say, Hey, I got an Ocean City, you know, bar and grow. That doesn’t make me secrets, right? You know what I mean. So I don’t hear that, but in the baseball vernacular, this is a massive change. After 30 years of you saying, We know that’s not going to happen to saying, Well, somebody’s going to sign and so why not us? And Mr. Big pants comes in and feels that way. I have no reason to believe one way or another, because I don’t think he’s sophisticated enough. I just think he’s going to do what he’s told based based on what what I where I am on this and I don’t really know what he’s told and who’s running. Katie Griggs on the baseball side. Michael is to say, I want you bone on bone. If we’re bringing in 130 million, we spend 130 and that’s it, or we’re going to spend 15% more than that. Somebody spend 142.5 somebody spend 142.5 like I don’t know what their formula would be. There’s a bob Leffler reference for some old schoolers there who love Bob. Bob Leffler. I don’t know what their formula is going to be, but I think they’ll have a formula, and I think it’ll be way more traditional to your line of thinking, which is, well, we can’t have really nice things, but we’ll have some things for this Christmas, but we’re not really the Rockefeller. Really
Luke Jones 48:08
nice things can be found for cheap, if you’re if you’re a good shopper or
Nestor Aparicio 48:12
sentimental, in my case, where I’m finding old Houston Oiler belt buckles for 20 bucks.
Luke Jones 48:16
I just, again, I want to, I’m pushing back just on the notion that, look, they need to have a good off season. There’s no question about that. But there is a, there is a very sound baseline here, right? This is not a team that went 75 and 87 and took a massive step backwards. They got hurt, right? They got hurt. If Kyle Bradish doesn’t get hurt if a couple other pitchers stay healthy, not all these guys, because that’s not realistic. I just think it’s going
Nestor Aparicio 48:47
to cost them money that these guys got hurt, because they’re going to, it’s going to cost a lot of money to think about another Kyle Bradish, and that’s what they did with that. I mean, so they are going to have to spend some money just to, just to be clear, let alone to give that gunner Henderson money or holiday money or improve upon Santander, right?
Luke Jones 49:06
Right? I guess the point I’m trying to make, and I’m not saying that, you know, I’m just saying this in a general sense, is, I don’t feel that this franchise needs major surgery from a roster building standpoint. They need, they need to add, there’s no doubt about that. But again, for all of the the stuff we talked about in the second half of the season and how discipline, they won 91 games, they finished three games behind the Yankees, and the Yankees went to the World Series, right? This isn’t as though they’re 20 games, but behind in the division, and they’ve got to do this and all they’ve got to spend like this, and they’ve got, they got to make good I’m not nearly as interested in payroll as go out and add good baseball players, however you might do it. And it might be trading. It might be yes, signing some free agents. It might be looking at your farm system internally and seeing what you have there. And you. Because they’ve got I mean, do you want to sign someone and then Kobe Mayo continues to be blocked, for example? I mean, I’m not ready to give up on the idea of Kobe mayo or Jackson holiday right? I mean, I’m not signing guys to block those guys. Now, you might want to sign someone that is an insurance policy. It depends, and that might have been what Ryan O’Hearn was at first base, maybe they’re going to trade Ryan mountcastle this off season, for example. I guess the point I’m trying
Nestor Aparicio 50:25
to speed with just plays out. And the confidence level of buying in selling tickets, spring training, hope and all of that is the season of hope that we’re even talking about Juan Soto or even talking about a contract for someone, and even talking about a team that’s won 202 ball, you know, like all of these numbers that add up. Um, and
Luke Jones 50:49
part of what I’m talking about here Nestor is sell what you already have better than you have. Gunner Henderson is a hell of a selling point, whether he has a long term deal yet or not. Gunner Henderson, still multiple years away from free agency, right? He’s not a pending by stars here, right?
Nestor Aparicio 51:06
We have star players pile divers here.
Luke Jones 51:09
So some of what you’re talking about, and I believe me, I hear you. You want to invigorate your fan base, you want to galvanize the town, you want to get people excited. You don’t want to have a repeat of what happened in the wild card series. And again, I think so much of that had so much more to do with the three months of mediocre baseball and then the ridiculous scheduling that you’re asking people who even want to go and it’s like, I can’t take off work.
Nestor Aparicio 51:32
Look, I’m not looking for a winter carnival where they signed Lee Smith in the morning, Roberto Alomar for lunchtime making and then the next day signed Jimmy key. You know that’s not gonna happen. They’re not financially, but there’s gonna be again, whatever the speculation is for what they think they can be when they grow up. They need to go five years deep into that and put 50 million a year into it now, and that 50 million year might look like Juan Soto if they can’t get it done with enter like, I don’t know what it looks like two pictures. I don’t know, but like, to your point, the way we used to think about this, well, there was nothing that’s a poverty way of thinking about it. I hope they’re not thinking about it that way. I hope they’re not trying to get their payroll up to 22 and just pour them out their way through this because of the empty seats, because of the construction downtown? Oh sure, because of you on that President Trump, whatever they would, whatever they would come up with to say, why? Like you go back to the game. Was a bad time. It, dude, you had your whole life to think about a four o’clock playoff game on a Wednesday in October, and the ticket for 20 to rehash this, but I just think that you’re also making it way more simplistic than it was, because I know people. I know people who wanted to go to the game and they couldn’t because there weren’t enough of them that wanted to go. That’s my choice, sure, well, and I was one of them who would want to go, but, like, I have my own reason. I don’t go. I don’t know why anybody else that go. I don’t I haven’t done a straw poll, and I get all the idea, but it wasn’t as important as they would want this they should want it to be. That’s, that’s all I’m gonna say for all the effort they put into it. Then we look, I’m gonna say this from my heart and I and it’s probably the reason I brought it up with Rubenstein, because you’d be like, You got 30 seconds with Rubenstein. What did you say to him more than I said to Bruce Springsteen, right? Like, literally. And, you know, I brought up those 10,000 empty seats at the playoff game because it bothers me. Sure, it should bother them, sure, at the same and that is what leads us to say we can’t have Juan Soto and we don’t have enough money for this and enough money for that, and we’re a poor city, and we’re this, and we’re it leads all into Baltimore, positive, like, right, all the way into, oh, we don’t get to have good things because we can’t afford them, because our
Luke Jones 53:53
sense of things. There’s a wide range here. I mean, there’s absolutely a wide range here. And but to go to your point, the ravens, who have been far more successful for far longer in the modern era, in terms of, you know, from the late 90s on, right? It’s no contest. We were talking about the fact that the Houston game, the Houston playoff game, how no one wanted to go right? So how much of that’s the Orioles? How much of that is just the market in general? I don’t know. Again, I’m not bashing I’m just throwing it out there because we were talking about that. But again, the
Nestor Aparicio 54:29
$350 get in for the commander Steelers game once. I couldn’t believe it, but I like, literally, that’s what it was to get in for ravens commanders a few and you know what’s also well, you have money that people do have, that they’re willing to spend on a football game right here down the road, whether they’re wearing a gold hat or burgundy, whatever it is, right? It that’s what leads into being affordability in baseball, in baseball, not football. Football packers get to play everybody. The Giants can get the same amount of money at stake and fly five times out and. Thing, you know, but in baseball, it’s different, and it gives us this latitude to discuss it. It is an open conversation for them, and certainly they’re billionaires. Let’s not act like they can’t afford it and how deep they’re going to go in. To be speculative, the clock begins now for Mr. Rubenstein and for whatever this thing’s going to be, and what they want it to be for the fans and dude, part of the commanders thing the other day for me, I watched the game on TV the whole, pretty much the whole game, because I was into it. And we’re playing the Steelers, and like all of that, the upper deck, it looks like they saw it off after the upper deck, like I’ve been in that stadium for concerts and football games, and going back to when Ray Lewis made a play and in the rain, 27 years ago. Now whatever, like, they’ve just tarped over seats and whatever that it feels like a little college stadium. It used to feel like this giant thing that’s going to be the game too, right? Make the play smaller. Make it more. You know, those 10,000 empty seats will be taken away when the it’s only a 34,000 seat establishment, and that’s how you get rid of 10,000 MP seats, and you make the demand more and, I mean, I’ll hear all of that, but as this off season goes for them, they’re under special. What did they say about my press credential? They said I was under review. They’re under review. Sure,
Luke Jones 56:20
sure, but we can only go off of what we know at this point in time. And we talked about this at the trade deadline. That’s one reason I was heartened by it, even though I didn’t necessarily love all the actual moves that were made. They took on money at the trade deadline. They took on real money at the trade deadline. I mean, even the Eloy Jimenez deal, which, I mean, he ended up, he was good for two weeks, and he stunk. After that, we began the whole conversation. They gave money to the bullpen this week. They gave there was a there was an investment, there was a buyout involved. There. That buyout alone made that deal a total flop. I mean, they didn’t give up anything for him. Obviously, it was a complete, you know, White Sox said, Here, take them. We don’t want them anymore. Mr. Angelos
Nestor Aparicio 57:02
didn’t write $1.5 million checks for anything, not even Xavier Hernandez, but, but the point
Luke Jones 57:07
is, so with that, and again, you can only add so much money at the trade deadline, right? It’s not free agency, but the fact that they took on what they took on there lends itself to the idea that, yeah, I expect them to be players in free agency. I don’t think it’s gonna be one Soto, but I think they’re gonna go, I think they’re gonna be, you know, and they’re gonna sign a couple real players. Like, it’s gonna be guys where you say, Hey, I know that guy. Hey, he’s good. Hey, this isn’t the a plus acquisition, but I think this is a B plus, or it might be an A minus for the money and for the lack of long term commitment, because, well, you better hope Adley Rogers and a well that right, and holiday and mayo, the guys that are clever always going to be that was always going to be the case so Nestor. I mean, that was always, I mean, the Yankees times where they haven’t been as good it’s been when they’ve had some young players that were supposed to supplement and compliment some of their stars ended up not working out, right? I mean, look at Stanton. Can’t play judge gets hurt. I mean, look at the angles, yeah. So, so, I mean, the Dodgers, for all the money they spend, look at their farm system, and look at the young players that have come up and helped them over the years, right? I mean, they, they continue to have a great farm system. So again, it’s not just about money. And I know that you know that. I mean not a little bit of this is wrestling, you know, pro wrestling going back and forth. But for me, it’s not some arbitrary number that they have to hit from a payroll standpoint. Go make your club better, right? You’ve got a heck of a base here, even with how disappointing this was and how it finished up, and the fact that they got swept by the Royals and they scored one stinking run in two games. There’s still so much to like. And if you’re Katie Griggs, you’re looking at gunner Henderson and Adley rutschman and Jackson holiday and you’re saying, You know what, we still have a heck of a lot that we can sell here. We need to do it better. We need to come up with new ways to find people and reach people. But that’s pretty darn good regardless of who we might go out and trade for or sign in the next three months. So there is so much to like that’s already there, and that’s why I’ve said over and over, react, but don’t overreact to what happened at the end of last year, because there’s still so much to like, and there’s still so much promise here, and there’s still a heck of a farm system, even if you know it, maybe so many guys have graduated that. Okay, it’s not ranked first in baseball anymore, but there’s still guys in the pipeline. We’re gonna be talking about Sam basio. They’re their catcher who reached triple A at the end of last year. I don’t know if he’s gonna be a catcher or a first baseman or a DH, but it’s got a heck of a bat. So he’s gonna be in the mix, maybe not this year, maybe the end of this year. But you know that when I say this year 25 obviously I’m talking so there’s still a lot to like they should, and I emphasize should, and I’m in agreement with you, when you have new ownership, and you consider how little they’ve spent at the end of the John Angelos era, and you. They should be ready to go out and make some splashes. It might not be a one Soto size splash, but hey, they added Corbin burns. They traded for Corbin burns. They paid him so much. Look what they paid Craig Kimbrel, even though that was a bad signing, as it turned out. So it’s not as though Mike Elias, you know, you sit here and say they’re not going to add anything, but Be smart. Be smart. Go out. It’s not about the money. For me, it’s go sign a good baseball player that you think is going to be really good for you this year, and depending on how long you sign them for that you think he’s going to be really good for the length of the contract, or at least close to it, right? Doesn’t mean it’s going to be Juan Soto. Doesn’t mean it’s going to be Corbin burns, but go look at the list of top 25 free agents. You can find guys lower on that list that I absolutely guarantee you would really, really help the Orioles win baseball games that aren’t going to cost $700 million like Juan Soto might get when it’s all said and done. So again, there’s a wide range between being the rays and the Dodgers. I’m hoping it’s somewhere closer, you know, past the halfway mark, closer to the Dodgers when it’s all said and done. I hope it’s on that side. I don’t know if it’s going to get there this off season, but yeah, if we’re sitting here on opening day and the Orioles have a payroll that’s, you know, not considerably larger than it was last year, and we’re looking at the roster and the rotation looks, eh, and you’re still wishing they had a right handed hitting outfielder, and we
Nestor Aparicio 1:01:31
can’t be talking about Kyle Bradish next year and about, I mean, maybe we’re talking about because he’s back, but we’re not gonna, like, I’m not gonna be crying about right means or wells or Bradish, I’m not gonna like, I agree. It’s not well. We used to have that anymore. Now it’s what do you have? They might as well be failed pitchers at this point that that didn’t make it or can’t make it, because they can’t. So who’s going to Well, I mean,
Luke Jones 1:01:56
Kyle Bradish is still very much firmly in their plans. He just can’t be a yes for 2025 right? It’s fine to say he’s a yes for 2026 and 27 and 28 but, yeah, you’re not expecting that. I mean, best case scenario, maybe Kyle Bradish can make some starts in August and September. So look, we’re going to see. I agree with you. You can’t use those as excuses, just like I didn’t want to get used Batista as an excuse this past year, because they knew in October that he wasn’t going to pitch in 24 and
Nestor Aparicio 1:02:24
they made an investment, and let’s hope the investments are better. Did I end on that? Did we just better than Craig Kimbrell from an investment money
Luke Jones 1:02:32
smartly. Spend money wisely. Don’t just spend it just because you want to spend it.
Nestor Aparicio 1:02:37
Wise conversation that made sounds like wise markets, one of our great sponsors, Luke Johnson, be found at Baltimore. Luke Yes, we talk baseball, even our Pittsburgh Ravens. Week, we can walk and chew gum at the same I’m even going to talk about the government and fascism and give a little history lesson around here from time to time for the next four years and counting, or however long it takes as an American. So we’re in for that. I’m going to have crab cakes. I’m going to have oysters. We’re going to celebrate Christmas, and we’re going to eat turkey and pumpkin pie, and I’m going to go to ROFO and get some pumpkin spice coffee whenever I want. I’m even going to have some eggnog at wise market. So happy holidays, everybody. We’re getting up on things around here. I even my wife is a wise marketer. They did trees out like real Christmas trees. And I’m thinking, How do I keep it alive for six weeks? But yes, I need more sunshine around here as the Ravens continue to win, and we hope that Mr. Rubenstein put some nice, nice presents under the tree, and the stockings are stuffed with free agents that are good signings, responsible signings. I’m Nestor. We are wnsta in 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking baseball, even when they don’t want us to. We’re Baltimore positive.
