Luke Jones and Nestor on finding the individual performances in these preseason slogs
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
play, game, preseason game, orioles, year, week, offensive line, good, veteran, owings mills, ravens, talking, voorhees, young, veteran player, starters, roster, september, luke, nestor
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, Towson, Baltimore, Baltimore, positive. We have a baseball and football weekend in August here where we’re going to be paying close attention to all things. Luke Jones going to be in and around Camden Yards, one side to the other and out, knowings, Mills, prior to and then afterward, as we you know, I don’t know that I’ve ever figured out this three game system as to what it means for cuts or players or timing and all that. That’s why I have Luke. That’s why Chad steal allows Luke access and not me, because I don’t really know the the cadence of three preseason games. I just know that they’re gonna stink. Luke has been out of Owings Mills all week long, trying to get guys healthy. And I think unlike Grayson Rodriguez and unlike Jordan westburg And guys at the Orioles are waiting on the Ravens can wait forever on Tyler Linder bomb or Kyle Hamilton, they’re not playing this weekend. So part of that is the backfields. And I guess, more than anything, in in Owings Mills the trainers room to figure out how they’re shaping up to become a complete football team before September 5, when they take on the Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah, it’s no longer for forever, because
Luke Jones 01:09
they’re three weeks out, but they still have some time. And the fortunate thing for the Baltimore Ravens, with the injuries that they have had over the course of training camp, other than Arthur millet missing some time into September, as John Harbaugh recently confirmed, and we know Malik ham, the Baltimore kid who may or may not have been part of the outside linebacker rotation. Injuries are dealing with right now are not the long term jeopardizing the start of the season. In fact, we talked about Kyle Hamilton the other day, the injury scare he had. Kyle Hamilton was back at practice on Tuesday, full participant made a spectacular pass breakup on a deep ball of Lamar trying to hit zay flowers, and he looked like Ed Reed on steroids, making that play the legs okay. I could say that with great confidence in how he looked. But you know, you deal with nagging things you mentioned Tyler linderbaum, they’re clearly being careful with him, but by and large, they’re mostly healthy. The Wiggins thing, they dodged a bullet there. He’s missing some time, but expected to be ready and plenty of time for week one. So this next preseason game against the Atlanta Falcons is one of these rare occasions it hasn’t happened that often, where the Ravens play a game at the stadium, and then they’ll clear out and the Orioles host the Red Sox that evening. You know, that’s only happened a couple times in these preseason situations. Well, they prefer to not have it happen, honestly, yeah, well, of course, and that’s why the Ravens ended up playing their game at noon and the Orioles and Red Sox, I think that was originally a four o’clock game, and that got moved back to seven, by the way, if
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:44
I ever get a chance to talk to Mr. Rubenstein, I never will. I’ve met his people there. They’re lovely. They’re just as lovely as you think they would be. I would ask him if he would be punitive toward the the ravens and allow them to move a football game so they can have a parade. I think it’s a fair question to ask a baseball owner, because are they going to get along, or are they not? Is Rubenstein and Bucha? Are they going to play nice? Because that’s a big part of the city. That’s a big part of Baltimore. Positive over the last 30 years was Angelo’s not just being an ogre to me, but to everybody. And his kid being really worse, his kid being worse, really over the last five years, as far as a human and a person and cooperation, there is a level of cooperation amongst these two teams on Saturday, as well as the police department, the city and traffic and fans, not for preseason on a Saturday morning, we made fun of how few people showed up last week. But there is a point where, like, that’s a good question for Mr. Rubenstein, if the Ravens win the World Series this year, are you going to kick them out next the first Thursday of September next year, to hosting fair question for him, because this is, this is the one day in 30 years that they’ve had the teams that they’ve actually played the same day, only done it two or three times ever, right? Yeah,
Luke Jones 03:56
it’s only been a couple other preseason games. I think, I think it was the hard knocks. Year The Ravens played, like a Friday afternoon game against the Giants, or something like that. I
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:05
remember that. I didn’t go to that guy. I was syndicated. Then I remember that, right, right?
Luke Jones 04:09
I remember it because I remember, I remember Billick, because this was hard knocks, and it was miked up and and he was talking to the team of the post game locker room. He’s like, Hey, we got to clear out of here. Got to make room for the Orioles. And you could hear a couple players almost scoff at the time, because the Orioles were awful at that point. But, yeah, I mean, I haven’t given it a whole lot of thought, but it’s relevant, and I think what will help Saturday is if it’s based off of what we saw with even the Eagles, who certainly traveled, and some Philadelphia fans Absolutely we’re in the stadium last Friday night. Don’t think the Atlanta Falcons are gonna be bringing many fans to town for a preseason game. So I know they’re marketing it as kids day. You know, they’re doing some different stuff like that, you know, face painting, different things like that. But you know, we know it’s not going to be a full 70,000 seat kind of kind. Capacity.
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:00
Forward to the baseball more than the football this weekend, as we all are, sure?
Luke Jones 05:03
Yeah. I mean, I there’s curiosity with as I always talk about with preseason football, especially now you’re looking at individuals, right? There’s a lot made about the offensive line in the preseason opener, game two. You know, do we see more of Roger Rosengarten at right tack? One less of Patrick McCary? Do? Do we continue to see Voorhees at left guard? Do we continue to see foul ale at right guard? Yeah. So you know, you’re, you’re watching the individuals, you know, I definitely want to see on the opposite side of the ball, and want to see David ajabo. Hopefully, maybe he’s cleared for this game. He’s been practicing fully. So he’s got to be close. You know, they wouldn’t be letting them practice if he wasn’t close to being cleared for a game. So you’re watching young guys, you’re watching individual performances, but yeah, we know we’re not going to see the starters. That’s obvious. That’s been evident for a couple years now, from the moment the JK Dobbins injury occurred, I think that was the obvious sea change, but you still want to see crisp performances from those who, frankly, need them. So you want, you want to see that, you want to get out of the game without any major injuries. Again, the last game, they had some guys banged up, Wiggins being at the top of the list, but minor injury. So you know that that’s where you are right now there. There isn’t a whole lot of interest in that, you know, to your point, yeah, there’s way more these games against the Red Sox this weekend, we made way more to the Orioles than anything that’s going to happen as far as anyone playing in Saturday’s game for the Ravens. But, you know, you still want to see the young guys play well. You still want to see them compete. You want to see maybe some young guys that may have struggled in that first game take another step. You know, we talked about this a couple days ago. You know, Voorhees, for example, yeah, seen Some mixed opinions about his play. So that’s fine. It’s his first competitive game since what November of 2022 I guess it was for Andrew Voorhees. So let’s see him look better in the next game. I still think he’s going to be the starting left guard, but you want to see growth. That’s the biggest thing. If you ask John Harbaugh with full full truth serum, what do you really want to get out of these preseason games, and specifically game one to game two? Now, they’d say, I want these young guys who’ve never played in the NFL, never played in an NFL stadium, were star struck by the lights and all of that, you know, especially these guys that played at smaller schools, I want to see them look more comfortable in game two. I want to see them play like they belong. And I want to see growth. I want to see improvement. I want to see mistakes that occurred in week one not occurring again in week week two. You know, I think that’s something you’ll hear coaches say a lot, one of the biggest compliments you’ll, you’ll see them pay a young player, is they don’t make the same mistake twice. When guys make a mistake, they want to see them correct it and then be better for it moving forward. So, you know, kind of sounds like coach speak, and I’m giving you a little bit of that, because, hey, I don’t have, there’s only so much I could say about these pre season games. But there is validity to that. You know, there is something to the idea of okay, mistakes that a Voorhees or someone like that makes it in game one, clean that up. In game two. Look better in game two, look more consistent, look more comfortable. Don’t look as nervous in game two. And I’m just using Voorhees as an example. Well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:16
that’s a respond to coaching issue in August for all of them to say, here’s the tape. Here’s what you did wrong. Can you make it right? That’s football, right? And and some of these guys, Billick would always say this, some of these guys can’t, yeah, some of these guys just aren’t good enough. And then some of these guys used to be. And you’re trying to figure all that out. What was last year, what was last week? We’re trying to figure that with the rotation of the baseball team right now. Pitching last month isn’t this month. Um, but in the case of some of these young players, they’re just names on a draft sheet to most of us, and how that I mean, I remember Kyle Hamilton, why did we draft the safety? Then you go out there and you see him play same thing with Linder bomb. I mean, why do we get rid of Hollywood brown to get a center? And then three years later, you got an All Pro, and you got somebody that you can really pair with your $50 million quarterback to create some things, trying to rebuild this offensive line. I it was never going to be rebuilt in the off season. They weren’t. We knew that when they lost last year, dude, we knew when they lost. We were questioning, like, is Stanley back? What are they going to do about zler? We’re going to do about Moses? Well, they made their decisions. They decided based on what they saw last year, to get young. They really did. Yeah,
Luke Jones 09:24
they did. And we’re going to see how that works out. As I’ve also said to you, I’ve questioned whether getting rid of Zeitler and Morgan Moses was maybe a step too far, and we’re going to see. We’re going to find out again it might be fine. And some of this is also going to be, how does Kevin Zeitler look in Detroit? How does Morgan Moses look with the Jets? Right? I mean, part of it is evaluating and saying, okay, Ozzy Newsome famously said it years and years ago, and Eric Acosta subscribes to the same idea. It’s an organizational philosophy. When you’re talking about a veteran player, they’ve often said some, you know, not always, but sometimes. Yes, you get rid of a guy a year too early, and you prefer that than it being a year too late. And what we’re going to see with Zeitler, we’re going to see that with Morgan Moses, we’re going to see that. And some of that’s also going to be based on how, whether it’s file a lay at right guard, or Rosengarten at right tackle, or whoever ultimately is playing there, how do they fare? So I’ll say this, it is way easier making those decisions that you just mentioned Nestor in March and April and May, when you’re not playing any games and you’re just looking at it on paper or on a computer screen, or you’re watching some film of how a player looks in college, and you say, Hey, that looks like that’ll work at the next level. Come that now’s the time where you see what that looks like, and it comes to fruition. You hope other times, it’s Alejandro Villanueva, who you know was not a good replacement for Ronnie Stanley, or it’s not having a replacement for Marshall yanda back in 2020 which, hey, it’s not easy replacing a Hall of Fame. Right guard, you know a guy who’s going to be in the Hall of Fame at some point. So you know, these are, these are tough decisions, and this is still part of the learning process for these younger guys, and frankly, for these coaches even figuring it out. You know, I, I think they have an idea, a pretty good idea, in their mind, of what they think the offensive line is going to look like in week one. But hey, that doesn’t rule out the possibility of adding a veteran player between now and then. We’ve seen that happen. I’ll remind everyone it. It was just around this time last year when the Ravens signed you Davion Clowney. They didn’t sign Kyle van Noy to the last week of September. So there’s still that possibility. I don’t necessarily, I’m not necessarily anticipating any additions of that magnitude, but we can’t rule it out.
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:45
That would shock me. They’re going to add a player or two that are there’s going to be a guy on the roster September 5, who’s a veteran player, who’s going to be on their team, who’s in another band right now, there’s no question about that. Oh, I
Luke Jones 11:57
mean, I I don’t want to say no question, because they don’t do that every single year, but there’s certainly a very legitimate chance that that could happen. Now, is it a starter that remains to be seen. It could just be an offensive lineman that is a backup that has a little more versatility. Has you know, another Patrick McCarry kind of guy, right? Someone that you say, hey, if FAU Lele falls on his face at right guard, we can pivot to this guy in week three, and he’ll probably give us a slightly higher floor
Nestor J. Aparicio 12:26
strength of their organization, with coquinas, who I don’t see anymore or talk to. I mean, I’ve been out there two and a half years since they threw me out. I don’t see these guys to interact with them in the way that I did my job. But seeing people like coquinas and knowing pro personnel around the league, they do this really well. They do it really well that they look at the Packers and say, there are three guys on the edge of their roster the Packers might cut. They might be able to help us. And they, they know all of that. They they’re not like the Orioles used to be just slapping around trying to figure this out, getting thrown out of South Korea for scouting. They they really do scour the league. And this is to your point, why the van noise and why the clowneys? Why I don’t say plug and play veterans, but Zeitler, Morgan, Moses, you name all these guys that they have brought from other places that they’re good at saying, Yeah, Voorhees is okay, and he’s young and good, but this other left guard just got cut, and he he’s we can rely on him more than a young guy, whatever it would be, or we thought we tried it for eight months to get this young kid ready to play and this Veterans available. I want to win a Super Bowl. I’d rather go get that guy. And especially along the offensive line, if this doesn’t work out, there will be spark spare parts out there. There will be veteran players that get caught that they would say, All right, you know, bring that guy in the way the Orioles went after Sir Anthony Dominguez. And, you know, bringing in veteran players at this time of the year is not it’s not uncommon, and they’re really good at it. I guess that’s my my point is as a unit, because they’ve been working together so long they can get in a room, and if George cocaine is jumps on the table and says, Brown’s cut this guy and, you know, look at the tape. John, look at the tape. Eric, you want this guy? Joe, you know you’re and they know, they know the league well. They know the league well because they’ve been this is where continuity helps them a lot.
Luke Jones 14:17
It definitely does. And look, they don’t bat 1000 but I would, yeah, to your point, their their batting average when it comes to those additions, much higher than most teams out there. There’s no question about that. So, and they’re like
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:29
acquisitions in the in a general sense, anyway, if it’s Andre garad And it doesn’t work out, like, to your point, Villanueva was a primary, you know, planned edition that didn’t work at same thing with Earl Thomas. I mean, there were a couple a lot of money there. That does happen. I just I want to look as much as I beat up their integrity and their character, and with good reason, I’ve been locked out so I can say that out loud and with full conviction that they’re creepy. But all that being said, they’re they’re really good at picking football players and. And they’re really good at this specific aspect of picking up veteran football players. If they’re picking somebody else up another organization because they feel like they have a deficiency, I will endorse that.
Luke Jones 15:12
Yeah, and I think with the O line specifically, it might not even be someone who’s cut, but maybe there’s a partner out there where there’s a pick swap, maybe you trade, I don’t know, you trade a defensive back, you know, someone that’s further back on your depth chart, but someone that would be of use to another team. That team has a guard that is making a little more money than that team wants to pay because they just drafted a guy that they feel is comparable, and they say, hey, we’ll swap fourth round picks. You give us an extra sixth and you can have this guy, you know? I mean, there are deals like that that potentially could be out there. Now, I’ll remind everyone, offensive line plays at a premium in this league, and that’s where it is unsettling when you’re trying to replace three starters. And you know, that’s where for me, as I just recently did my latest 53 man roster projection, which you can check out at Baltimore positive.com right now. It’s one thing talking about who they’re starting five is going to be, but where I have some trepidation is beyond that, and I don’t I’m not panicked over it, but I think it’s naive to not have at least some concern, some angst, to see what it’s going to look like, even with Lamar Jackson being the the bonus that he is that helps out an offensive line, even with Derek Henry carrying the football, which should help. If the run blocking isn’t perfect, he should still be able to make it work better, because you’re paying him a lot of money, as I pointed out, as far as that factor. But for me, it’s not even just the starting five. I am concerned, though, about their depth, because I look at for me, I think they have eight guys that are locks to be on the 53 man roster, barring a trade, barring anything unforeseen injury, anything like that. But you have Linder bomb at center, of course. You have Stanley at left tackle, Voorhees presumably at left guard, a right guard continues to be Daniel faulele. We’ll see if that continues in that way. You have Rosengarten, and then, of course, from a depth standpoint, you have McCary, you have Ben Cleveland, and you have Josh Jones, the veteran they picked up, who’s another backup type, who you know could start some games at some point, but looks like he’s going to be a backup. That’s eight. Typically they like to have nine, maybe 10. I don’t know who that ninth is right now. Maybe it’s Nick same act, the seventh round center that they drafted, who got hurt last year, and that’s why he was available in the seventh round. You know, is it? Is it big salah, who, a year ago, at this time, we were talking about maybe being their starting left guard, and he’s just falling off, you know, falling off the face of the earth in terms of the starting O line. I mean, he played late in Friday’s game. I’m not sure he’s making the team. So it might just be, even if it’s not a starter Nestor, it might be go out and get another veteran, depth piece for your offensive line, you know, someone that another team wants to save $2 million and you say, you sign that guy, and you say, hey, if Voorhees falters, or if I lay falters, or if someone gets hurt, neither McCary is what you’re saying, right, right? I would feel better about this offensive line through a 17 game schedule if, yeah, you kind of just took the words right out of my mouth, if you had another Patrick McCarry guy, ideally, Patrick McCarry is not one of your starters, right? He’s your sixth man. You know, in basketball terms, he’s your sixth man. He’s your utility infielder. He’s that guy that if he has to play, because, you know, someone’s going to get hurt, even if it’s for a game or two, or even if it’s just for a quarter or two, you can trust that Patrick McCarry is going to go into the game, and he’s at least going to know his assignment, and he’s going to play with the high enough floor that you’ve got a chance if he’s going to have to play for eight weeks, then generally, he’s going to get exposed a little bit more, but he’s a very valuable player in that way. Do they have an interior is there an interior lineman out there that could, at the very least be that for them. Because, you know, it’s again, it’s great to look at it in the summertime and say, Yeah, we think he can do that job. Yeah. We think Voorhees can be the left guard. Yeah. We think FAU le might be able to do this right guard thing. He’s looked better than we thought he might. But sometimes you get to week three and you say, what? It’s not happening. It’s not looking good. You know, he’s not handling it. And sometimes you need to pivot. So that might be the more realistic option Nestor, than just saying, hey, you need to go out and find someone who’s going to start right. I think that would be very ambitious, based on the fact that they don’t have a lot of cap space, and teams aren’t eagerly trading offensive linemen in this day and age in the NFL, so maybe there’s a depth piece out there. Because again, it’s one thing to talk about the five starters. I I’m uneasy about their depth on the offensive line. I mean, how could, how could you feel good about it, right? I mean, you’re trying to figure out who your starters are, let alone who the backups are going to be. So I. I’m not saying that panicked in a big picture, oh my gosh, it’s going to impact their season in a harshly, in a harsh manner, but you do have to be mindful of your depth. And you know, I get to eight, but typically you want to keep nine or 10 offensive linemen. And I just don’t know if they have that many guys on their roster that are truly worth keeping in that capacity. So is there a veteran backup type? You know, someone that started games, someone that can give you a high floor, basically what John Simpson did for them last year. You know, as much as we lump him in with Zeitler and Morgan Moses, John Simpson was a below average starter in terms of really looking at the quality of his play, but he started every game. He played more snaps than anyone on that O line. What did he do? He offered a high floor. You know he he was dependable in terms of what he actually gave you. So is there another veteran out there that could be that, if need be, you know, if you have an injury or two, or if one of these young guys can’t do the job, and you’re looking at it, and it’s October 5, and you’re saying, Oh, this is not trending. Well, for for this guy at this spot, then maybe we’ll turn to this individual so, so we’ll see, and look everything I just said, the same could apply to their pass rush, right? Same thing. They’ve got a bunch of young guys behind van Noy and OA who are major question marks right now. The the team talks them up. They have their bright spots in practice, but what are they going to do on the field? So it’s the same exact deal, you know, well, Edge rushers and offensive line you’ve got young guys that you’re cautiously optimistic about, they’re going to get opportunities. But if there is a veteran that comes free that can be had for a reasonable price in terms of draft picks or trading from another position of depth, then I think you absolutely could see that happening. Because, to your point, Nestor, you know what you said a few minutes ago, they’ve been pretty good at identifying veterans coming in, whether it’s free agents, whether it’s someone that you acquire in a trade, or someone that gets cut, guys that can come in and do a nice job for them in some capacity. So yeah, if you’re asking me what their 53 man roster is come September 5, I’d say there is a very reasonable chance, not a guarantee, but a reasonable chance, that we see a veteran or two added along the way. He
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:32
is Luke Jones. He is a Baltimore Luke. He’s going to be out in Owings Mills prior to and then after and right on up until we get on the plane for Kansas City in a couple of weeks. Get closer now, right? I mean, it’s getting a little more real, and I guess cuts happen after third or after second will be some cuts this week. This is the part I began the whole segment with. I don’t really understand the cadence of 333, games, and we won’t have to work too long on it, because they play an 18. Soon they’ll be down to two, right? I uh,
Luke Jones 23:04
well, they they don’t do the they don’t do the levels of cuts anymore. They just wait they go from 90 to 53 basically now. But because part of the concern with that was you would cut guys, and then you get to the last preseason game, and you’d have a shorter roster, and you didn’t want to play your starters, and then you’d have a short roster, really shallow roster, for that last preseason game. So they don’t do the lair the tears of cuts anymore. It’s just they cut down to 53 at the end of the month, and away we go at that point. So they want all those guys to line up and play against the Falcons and against the Packers next week.
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:38
All right. Well, rest stop. Towel off. Double duty this weekend. Triple duty, if you count Mako, I’m getting Ocean City. Luke will be in Owings Mills, and he’ll be at Camden Yards. Might as well just get a cot down there from Friday until Sunday. And Luke and I will reconvene at the end of the weekend and see where the Orioles are, see where the ravens are, see where the injuries are. And then we go into little bit of a quiet period. Have a lot of baseball before Labor Day. And then once comes, comes real hard, beginning September 5. On September 4, I will be Cocos. I’m wearing my Coco shirt. We will have the scratch offs from the Maryland lottery, the goal rush, sevens, doublers to give away. I’m assuming by September 4, I’ll have the Raven scratch offs to give away as well. Our friends at Liberty, pure solutions, keeping our water crystal clear. Planet Fitness trying to get my fat butt shaped this summer. Before the end of the summer, they could do the same for you. We always do that. You know, New Year’s it’s summer and all that. Never a bad time to get shape. Planet Fitness is right around the corner from you, as well as our friends at the Jiffy Lube multi care oiling us up. Get me down to Ocean City this weekend. We’re at Mako. We’re gonna have both of our sitting senators, Ben Cardin and Chris Van Hollen on the air next week for you also just a lot of visitors and guests from from down at the beach. A lot of Baltimore people are going to be down there. Follow along on social media. You can follow Luke at Baltimore. Luke, I am Nestor. We are W, N, S T am 1570 tassel Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.
