Covering the business of sports and moonlighting in two rock and roll tribute bands, we only track down Maury Brown of Forbes when we’re ready to get serious about baseball and money. Rocking the trading deadline like a hurricane without a holiday and letting the money talk. @BizBallMaury
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
orioles, baseball, team, years, owners, sports, pitching, players, nestor, market, model, watch, game, starting, cable television, scorpions, club, happen, roku, give
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, Maury Brown
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are W en st Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive. Happily making our way up onto the trading deadline. I got my El Guapo gear out. We are putting together our next Maryland crab cake tour show across the street from El Guapo. We’re going to be at State Fair we’re gonna be with maybe future Senator Angela alsobrooks. Current account executive for Prince George’s County. We have invited larry hogan on we hope that he will make it as well but on the 13th of August before Mako, I’ll be giving these away to go Russ sevens doublers in the Maryland lottery, our friends from Jiffy Lube, multi care as well as Liberty pure solutions. Putting us out on the road, we’re going to be fadeless and later on in the month when the cheats drones come in here. They might still be in first place by the time that happens at the end of August. This guy monitors all things baseball, I know him through baseball. I love him through rock and roll. I appreciate him through the sports business culture of the work he’s done at Forbes and other places. I call him baseball Mari he has been a phenomenal host to me in Portlandia and that’s Oregon, not Maine for those of you out there keeping score at home. He covers all things about the business of sports and is a baseball head and rock and roller and sort of moonlights as they would say I in to rock and roll bands. So I want an AC DC cover band called shoot to thrill and they recently played scorpions a cover band where he gets to play the role of of Michael Schenker. So where’s that Rudolph Shanker? Which Mike real brutal fruity? Yeah, I get it mixed up. I mean, scorpions, UFO the whole thing Molly Brown is here. He’s baseball Maury are defending champion out by giving you the right introduction. I mean, everywhere else just like he’s sports business guy from Portland. He’s important. Hey, Mari told me they don’t talk rock and roll with you in other places. I’ve seen these other interviews you do?
Maury Brown 01:51
No, man. You’re the only one. Well, I mean, you guys, I love you.
Nestor J. Aparicio 01:55
We get to rock and roll hard. I mean, I should let my hair out for you. But this is pleasure in the back. It’s business in the front right now and the business of baseball and we’re right in the middle of it right like add Todd radium on this week talking about those hideous jerseys at the All Star game. I got you on we’re going to talk trading deadline. The Orioles are in the middle of all of it. I mean, literally, including the regional sports network stuff you’re reporting on last week, the Orioles starting pitcher starting catcher All Star shortstop blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, that wonder one wins first place, they’re gonna get their own All Star game. All this stuff’s going on. But they also have this stacked stacked minor league system. Exciting time right here more beats the hell out of what we’re talking about Portland six years ago. And then the last place, man. Yeah,
Maury Brown 02:41
I mean, you know, kudos to how they’ve drafted, how they’ve developed. And they’ve finally figured it out. I mean, Nestor, you and I have been talking about this for what, you know. Yeah, a decade, a long time. And so we always, always said that. Baltimore deserved a winning product. And I never believed for a split second, that the Orioles were ever going to leave Baltimore. I know there was some talk about it, but I never believed in it. And now you can see why that would have been such a foolhardy thing. So yeah, I think that it’s important to stress that it’s important to have teams that have languished for a period of time to resurface. I spoke this has been Geez right after Manford took over as Commissioner, I asked him, what he wanted to see in terms of teams cycling up and down. And this was in response to what the Astros had done right, which was new owner came in and completely blew up. But it did pertain to the Orioles, which was he saw that or thought that clubs should be in a five year cycle. He understood that you could not keep windows of competitiveness, sustained for long periods. There’s just not every club has the resources to do it. And it’s probably not healthy for the game. You want to have parity right. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:17
when I was at the draft, is this designed to do in every sport, right, is to make the bad teams better and to penalize the good teams with less talent that but that’s on a level playing field. Everybody has same amount of money baseball still really the screwed up one out of all of them really?
Maury Brown 04:32
Yeah. I mean, it is it’s a it’s a problem. And this regional sports network thing that we have going on right now, I think is got the capacity to again, really, really separate the top from the bottom. I mean, they’re just big outliers. And the A’s are always going to be an example of that. At the top that Dodgers are the other one. They’re the extreme outliers, but you’re starting to see more and more teams. hovering around the middle court, you know, are the top quartile? And that I think is important, you know, because you don’t necessarily have to have the highest payroll probably helps to be somewhere in the top, maybe third. And that gives you a better shot.
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:17
My brand is our guest, I should tell everybody how I met you because your original foray into the world of sports media was trying to speak of Baltimore positive, you’re amongst the group of people that was really trying to bang pots and pans to get a Major League Baseball team in Portland, correct?
Maury Brown 05:36
Yeah, I mean, to clarify it, Nestor, it really worked like this, I got tired of driving three and a half hours to go watch Major League Baseball, I still do. And I’m, you know, I’m part of the baseball Writers Association. If you know, God willing, next year, it’s my 10th year, I got a Hall of Fame vote. But it’s very, very difficult to get in a car and drive that far, and try and cover with any sense of regularity, I wind up traveling to other teams almost as easy as it is to get there. So yeah, I mean, when the Expos came up, we said, you know, let’s just take a look at the market and make a play for it, it will allow us to do a good market analysis and see where we’re at and see if it can be done. And I look at what’s been going on around certainly the A’s. And I think with expansion, you’re gonna see a lot of markets, that may not necessarily have a good chance at it, but it does provide an opportunity to do a good market analysis. And I think that that’s valuable. And that’s what we did. Of course, we didn’t get the team, of course, they wound up going to Washington, DC and becoming the Nationals. But that did give me a huge amount of research data around it. And I just started writing about it. And next thing, you know, people were asking me to do essays and books and you know, over 20 years later, here we are. Yeah,
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:03
and the only team that really moved was was the Expos to Washington against everyone’s will. I mean, I came look, I was nationally syndicated back in the days when contraction was the thing I had Jesse The Governing Body Ventura of Minnesota on my national show several times, screaming that bud Seelig was not going to contract the Minnesota Twins. This thing’s just been festering for way longer than I’ve known you. Maybe I will, I decided to wear the kelly green today to honor the legacy of the Sacramento, Las Vegas, Kansas City, Philadelphia Athletics. What do you think?
Maury Brown 07:37
Yeah, I go back to the friends. I mean, people forget that when when Karl Pohlad hitched his wagon to that idea of contracting the twins so that it would bounce the league out, there was a huge dream that went up from their network partners that sued, and everybody else there was there, there would have been a real problem with an Associates,
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:01
you gotta take 50 jobs away. That’s all different. Good. Yeah. And the owners never want one of those battles ever. No.
Maury Brown 08:09
And it’s so of course, and of course, buddy’s gonna say this, but I think it’s been about five years ago, I interviewed but feeling. And I asked him about that, if that was really, really going to happen. And if he of course, he leave immediately threw all the other owners under the bus. He says, Well, I was doing the will of the owners, was the response was,
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:31
you know, thirds of them are dead now can’t speak for themselves. Yeah. You know,
Maury Brown 08:35
and he’s no longer in the chair. So like, he’s pretty safe making that call.
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:40
I always found it better to talk to face Vincent and Bud ceiling if you really want to, honestly, you know, in general,
Maury Brown 08:45
and face. You know, I think the most the wildest interview I ever did was with Faye, right? He had just had some surgery and was on Vikon. And you mitad this he was on painkillers, and absolutely went wild on Jerry Reinsdorf and Bud Seelig and the system, and he’s largely been that I mean, he likes to call himself the last Commissioner. He was the last guy that bucked the trend and went against the owners and he got fired for it so fast. The
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:18
game’s not a real thing.
Maury Brown 09:21
Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that people often forget is, the Commissioner is not as powerful. I think, as people think. The owners have all the power in that thing, and you are constantly at you’re, you’re working for the owner, so you’re never going to try and go up against them. So for somebody to go up against them in labor. You know, he did exactly the opposite of what the owners wanted him to do. And they could very famously in the Kohler meetings were a disaster. I mean, there’s just everything that could go wrong, went wrong at that period. And of course, he was answered and then but came in as an Acting Commissioner and said he’d never She wants to position full time, which of course he took. So I mean, it’s that’s an interesting time, Nestor. I mean, it’s a critical moment in baseball history. Because from that point on, you really see the owners in lockstep. And since then they’ve gotten a leg up on the, the players with the exception of this last labor deal. I mean, and we had to go into a lockout, and I’m pretty sure we’re gonna see another one when this labor deal expires.
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:30
Well, it’s fascinating Marianna, we can take a deep dive into this. And I, I honestly invited you on to talk some trading deadline stuff, and we’ll get to that in a minute. But when I get deep dive guys on like you. And I started talking about my history and doing this for 33 years. And my introduction was, we lost our football team. Are we ever gonna get one back? Sure. Let’s not lose our baseball team. Oh, the guys from DC and might move it there. Oh, he’s in failing health. Oh, he’s selling it to this creepy dude from Boston, New York guy that’s like a Red Sox fan, like weird. And then Peter gets it. And we have a new stadium. And I mean, I’ve watched all of this, I’ve watched mass and be born and die. I’ve watched Peter come in and die. I mean, I’ve seen it all. But underneath of all of it, it’s way beyond the trading deadline. And players, there’s a level of understanding about where this money is going, and how all this money comes together. That funds all of it. And if you don’t understand the business of baseball, it’s very, very hard to have a lucid conversation with a minute as a guy that took phone calls for 25 years around here. It there’s a wide swath of education gap, kind of like our voting populace as well, which we could get into that in Oregon as well. But I would say for the for people that really care to know about all of this, this trading deadline thing is all about economics, right? Like giving up a player you have control over that you don’t have to pay keeping, you know, in line seeing the Tampa Bay model, seeing the St. Louis model, seeing other models and seeing the Phillies model. And all of these models are built on way beyond gate revenues and way beyond how much a beer is and what they’re even getting on their clubs. Sweet. It was always tied. Well, the club seats were the thing 30 years ago, but after that it was all media revenue once Yes, network in essence stepped in. That’s how Peter was going to keep the Orioles competitive. I had him on tape saying all this stuff, right? It was all a lie. It was all a ruse his kid got 1,000,000,008 out of it. And now Mr. Rubenstein comes in. And what he’s finding right now is this pure potentiality to build the brand of the Orioles. But this upside down model of cable television, my stadium, there is no DC market anymore, that’s gone. Not only is it gone, we have to compete with it. But Philadelphia is up there with all the problems the Ravens inherited and all the reasons that the lords of the NFL didn’t want to put a team here because it was sort of squashed in the Orioles have this cool brand and this cool thing. But finding the money here Mari and I will continue to go back to you as baseball Mari all of the excuses that did Cass ever laid out to me before we threw me out about not being in the upper quartile of this and not having fortune 500 companies, all of those issues that were inherent with a small market NFL team that never affected their ability to sign Lamar Jackson or Ray Lewis or any player ever because of the system, the original sin in the garden of Steinbrenner and Ryan’s door, when I came on the radio during the strike of 90 234. In that era, when things were great here and bad everywhere in the sport, the original sin of big market, small market and then there’s the trading deadline this week, where everything that will happen all the pieces of money and players and the value of rutschman and Henderson and Holliday and Westberg. And these young players they have against whether they’re going to be $100 million under 30 million 100 80 million. Whether grandpa Rubinstein is going to act like the guy in San Diego just passed away into said I’m all in the way the Tigers were like I’m all in it’s a civic duty. It’s a philanthropy it is what it is. I’ll get my money when I cash it out and sell for 3 trillion. But we’re at that. This is a really interesting week and that’s why I’m reaching you in the smartest people I know to say, we’re gonna learn a little bit about Mr. Rubinstein’s hand this week, I would think as well as the future for Mike Elias and what the organization is going to be because the orals are in the center of all of this this week, for the first time really ever?
Maury Brown 14:41
Yeah, I would think that they might shore up a piece or two. I mean, it’s not like they’re in a bad position right now. I think that they are in in fairly good shape. It’s it what’s changed Nestor is the addition of two other wildcards teams in each league. Right? So we have now six wildcard teams that really altered the buyer’s and seller’s market quite a bit. Because there really is that feeling that a twist here or there and we can be competitive. So let’s not mortgage our future to try and do something. There are some teams that are obviously clearly out of it. I mean, let’s make no mistake about it, no matter what happens with the season, the A’s are not going anywhere. And they really aren’t, the angels aren’t going anywhere, the Blue Jays are not going anywhere. And so I think that you’re going to cubs I think, or another team that have suddenly made it very clear that they’re going to be sellers. So the market has really been pretty frozen up. There are a lot of people interested in pieces. So what are those pieces that you’re looking for? Well, I’m going to look at a team that I know really well, which is the Seattle Mariners, which is maybe the most schizophrenic team I’ve seen in a long time in the sense and I you know, Not to disparage them in that way. But it’s that idea that they are a pitching juggernaut. They are absolutely a team that is running RAM shot in terms of pitching, and are absolutely abysmal at the plate, they struck out 14 times last night. Now on the pitching side, they gave the game away in the night. So they’ve got pitching assets, they have more players in the top 100. By baseball, America’s prospect Outland than any other club. So they have pieces to move and
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:33
they want cows or curse that who do they want Mayo who they want from us. Yeah,
Maury Brown 16:37
I you know, I don’t in terms of who they’re going to move. That is the I think the ultimate question. I think that what what you’re going to start to see, again, are what our teams looking for. And if I was if I was bulk
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:50
talent, right, I mean, if yours are gonna deal in for pitching, they better get somebody that’s going to be here on opening day next year, because I don’t think they’re gonna pay burns right now. In Ortiz is already like onto his thing in Milwaukee. And that’s the cost. He wasn’t gonna play here anyway. I mean, they can’t get nor be on the field, they can’t get oliday on the field. They can’t get Mayo up here. You know, cows are cursed that scours all sorts of shared bats. They’re a little schizophrenic to your point on what they want to do with Hayes and Mullins and it may be even mountcastle before it’s all over with and all these guys are hot and cold, you know, these hitters and pitching the Orioles are getting by with what they have. But what they had was means and wells, and Bradish and all these guys with a Tommy John. Thanks. So taking a gander on school. It sounds great. But I’m I’m afraid of what happened to the strasburg’s of the world. Right, and what I just saw Bradish go through here.
Maury Brown 17:48
Yeah, I mean, that is the other component to this thing. I get a lot of this conversation about, you know, Nolan Ryan, and Bob Gibson. And, you know, you go and pick your flavor of old school guys. And why can’t these guys pitch and they’re just not you know, as strong and as virile as they used to be. And I don’t think it’s fair to compare eras in a sense because right now, pitchers are pitching with everything they have as hard as we’ve ever seen with spin. And that is putting a lot of stress on there. I haven’t looked at the numbers, but it’s always staggering to see the dollar amounts that are on the IL for pitchers and that is the component right so okay, we’re looking good now but that doesn’t mean that injury can’t come it’s not that means an injury can’t hit anybody in any of these guys,
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:38
I’ll pick this up and turn them in the running backs right?
Maury Brown 18:41
Yeah. Right. So it it is I think it is important to note that there is that are we second guessing ourselves are we in good enough shape? How are we doing you’re talking to everybody in your medical staffs and how it’s going pitching is always a premium and you can say that pitching wins baseball right but you need hitting and hitting doesn’t seem to be a problem for the Orioles it is again things go up and down right i mean you what you’re trying to do is keep you’re losing streaks and everybody goes through them to some kind of manageable level and not crater and I I just I’m really bullish on the Orioles I think that they are in a pretty good position. So I think you’re looking at insurance at this point Nestor and how much you’re going to go ahead and and run away with and get rid of is the largely the open question. And I again, I think that what can happen here is I think the market first of all, the trade market is fairly thin all the way around. And so I think that what’s going to happen is there going to be some teams that are pretty desperate and are the Orioles that desperate to move to go ahead and basically Morgan Some of their future. And I don’t know why you would do that right now. I really don’t. I mean, everybody needs pieces. Look, there’s not a team out there. There’s no team the Phillies, I don’t care what that team is right now. There’s no team that is safe. Everybody is looking for some form of insurance. But I’m just I look across the market right now. And it’s just been really a questionable thing I look, the Blue Jays are, I think are an interesting example of this. So they’ve got another year, they’ve got another year for both boba shad, and Vladimir Guerrero, Jr. They haven’t signed extensions yet. And boba Shad is certainly out of the two of them, doing the worst out of the pair of them. It’s not that Vlad Jr. has done anything really spectacular. He’s not looking like it was a couple seasons ago. But he’s started to see a bit of an upswing. He’s obviously in the All Star game, and whatnot. So I don’t think you know, as Ken said that they’re not going to move those guys because they have them under club control. And that is a core component, right? Like, what do we have under club control? Do we need to move on now if we don’t? Well, maybe we can work something out between now and when we get to where we need to, you know, either cross that bridge or jump off a bit. And I think that again, club control becomes such a critical piece. You are you know exactly what you’re going to get. And coming back to the to the RFM model. One of the things that drives owners, and GE and of course, that’s funnel standard, the GMs crazy is the numbers that they get from their CFOs, which is I need cost certainty, what are our revenues? How are our revenues going to look next year next week? How are things looking so that I can make a decision on wrapping up players if I get if I get a rental? Am I going to be able to sign them to an extension or do I just get them as a rental and hope that they’re the piece to make us move. And that is becoming harder and harder decision based upon the fact that we’ve got the majority of the regional sports networks up in the air with diamond Sports Group controls all the Bally’s sports networks, everybody’s up in the air Rob Manfred has said that they want to bring all of those under a unified model they want to go to something similar to what the NFL has they’ll never get all 30 clubs because the Yankees because maybe the Orioles beat certainly because of the Dodgers and the Red Sox so it becomes this very difficult when
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:38
the artists are still under dispute. I mean Peters down they still don’t have to deal with the Nationals literally right and
Maury Brown 22:44
but and I hold to them because there’s there’s capacity right? I mean, there is the dispute it is going to continue to go on. But I do look at these things where you sit there and go is their capacity to make something happen. But I look at the brands I can go well and the market there’s something there the Astros are another one, you’re never gonna get it but
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:04
but Mari this thing goes back to what the financial model is in 2028 or 2029 when they’re gonna have to pay Gunnar Henderson 50 million a year and rutschman 30 If they you know if they’re gonna have these holidays on add him into that mix, right? He’s supposed to be that special guy, right? So all that being said, your costs certainly in 2028 or 2029. I know one way they’re not getting money from me. They’re not going to get cable television anymore. It’s not going to be bundled in. It’s not going to be $3.50 assault from six different states and all the things that the Angelo’s family drank off of negotiated for when they got Masson two decades ago. I don’t know that they know what the model is. And when I bring the smartest people on and I would put you at least in that upper 1% of that. Tip your cap for that morning I probably say Ken Griffey on your app is a Zach Griffey.
23:55
It’s Griffey, baby.
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:56
I can’t get it. But it spiffy is that awful. Pennington Are you know, I’m trying to look there and see that he’s not wearing that. Not wearing that green jersey and that thing, but
Maury Brown 24:07
it’s, it’s if you can see on the side, where’s it at? Oh, it’s got the Nintendo controller. It’s the eighth bit grumpy. Hey, I’m plugging baseball as of today. Well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 24:17
that’s why it’s a little out of focus. Well, I’m fine. Okay, I know. I’m not I didn’t drink that much at Van Hagar the other night and I can’t see what’s going on here. But I guess you know, back to the heart of it. My question is always where the where’s the money coming from? Is it coming from fans in Middle River at $10? A throw? They’re doing a thing in August and September mark it listen, they do a lot of things to try to get people to the ballpark. Right Joan Jett, they got a splash on the owner dances of the seven. They’re doing all of this. They’re gonna spend 600 million of our dollars on their house to do whatever they want to charge us more to come into the perimeter and like the same thing the ravens are doing. But my question is the the revenue model and the business model It used to be 30 years ago when I came on the radio was ticket sales, attendance, beer soul, how many people come out for floppy at night, whatever. I don’t know that that’s moving the needle at all to afford Adley rutschman shoes if he’s $40 million a year. And because I’ve done the math on all of that, and what it costs them to open the stadium and do all that they have all of this ancillary media revenue that they think can come from website, BAM has been a very successful thing over the last 15 years that you can speak to, but I keep thinking that there’s going to be this sort of this country club, this access point where for $500 a year or $2,000 a year, I get x amount of seats, X amount of merch X amount of this, and the games and the games anywhere I want them because at the end of the day when they start doing crazy shit, like Apple television, and all of this stuff that if my mother were still alive, and she’s gone, she would be 100 fine if she was not here now, but she loves baseball and at the end of her life, maths and one maths and two, is the game on. Is it on fox sports? Is he just having it where it comes to you to some degree, because the young people aren’t like us, Maury, they’re not going to go chase this down. And it’s not going to come on Channel 364 on your cable television anymore, they really are going to have to in a lacrosse market and where I am really chase people to get their credit card. And in a way that is honorable, where people feel like I want to give you money be a member of the orange club. But what do I get for that? Because I think this the way we think of cable television, we got to stop doing that more, because it’s not going to work like that. It can’t work like that and still afford Adley rutschman. Otherwise, how much am I going to have to pay $10? Again, for it’s going to be $1,500 a year that nobody’s going to do that. So I don’t I don’t know where their cost point is. But I do know, I’m from Dundalk. I grew up hard scrabble, my dad was senior citizen tickets and all that. I do know there’s a real disconnect between the elite side of baseball, and what people can afford, and what people that love baseball that want to interact with baseball. And they they’re not even given six bucks up on an Apple TV subscription on Friday night. Because it’s nuts. You know, I mean, you’re making it hard to be a fan in that way. business wise. Yeah,
Maury Brown 27:22
I would say that this is where this is a crossover point. So we had this thing where people were like, Hey, man, just I just want to have my baseball. I don’t care about this other stuff. I don’t really want to watch Food Network, or whatever it is, you know, just give me my games. Well, then it was careful what you asked for. Everybody started to offer up these, you know, direct to consumer offerings via streaming. And suddenly it’s become so fragmented. And everybody wants to have a paid service. Right? That it there’s only so much discretionary income to go around. Now, it’s interesting. I’m in the middle of a story for on a couple of different fronts. Stringent for auto racing with Formula E a recap of their last 10 years, but I’m also looking at major league baseball with this Roku deal. And the Roku things kind of interesting in the sense that you go oh, yeah, I why this makes no sense. But what they are is an aggregator. And that’s what we really want, right? Hey, man, just tell me where I’m going to find my stuff. i Where are the games at? I need a central location where I can find it. And I got a
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:38
guy that covers the team for a living that lives across the Pennsylvania line. He can’t get the games at a market. And sometimes it’s a Phillies game and it’s like, it’s crazy. And their games he can’t watch literally, you can’t get on an app can’t get anywhere. John Angelos was supposed to be in front of this. He was a disgrace like this. These are the basic things that when your team gets really good, you know, you gotta give me the product, bro. You know what I mean? So, so
Maury Brown 29:07
let’s talk about that because I think that’s a super important thing and the blackouts I have been it’s been a cottage industry for me Nestor for 20 years. Somehow, some way I think that it finally got through because it’s been the number one complaint from fans for those 20 years. Rob Manfred and the owners I think have finally realized that what you really want or what they want is to get unified right but under one umbrella have it be a central thing the MLB channel
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:41
will be WWE right probably right? Yeah, well
Maury Brown 29:45
so or think about so I want to I want to talk about something
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:49
our audience should be familiar with it you subscriber you don’t I don’t I never see wrestling anymore. It’s like it doesn’t exist. It comes once a year in March. We applaud whoever the rock comes back or whatever, but like It’s not in my face anymore. And I have cable TV, but I just don’t. Look, I’m not watching the news either with the political side, like, I just I watched the games. And that’s about my extent I don’t even I don’t even watch the Bon Jovi documentary. I know you find it hard to believe. But yeah,
Maury Brown 30:16
well, I haven’t watched either, but then I’m not a big bunch. Oh. But anyway, no, I want to finish this because I think it’s important. The the, the idea, so that idea of I just want to watch the games, and I want to have them in a spot. So I am going to pick on Apple for a second because Apple picked up all of MLS, so it isn’t a central location to serve baseball would get get it and make it available through mlb.tv. And you could go, Oh, I just want to get my team. I don’t care about all the other stuff. But what you would eventually get to is this idea where blackouts are completely gone. Now, in baseball’s mind, they see the model now when you go direct to consumer, as there are no more blackouts. So if I’m watching on TV, you’re going Why are you telling me this more, you’re being a liar, it’s blacked out on my television, baseball will say, Okay, it’s blocked out due to our TV deal, but you’re not blocked out because you can go and get this streaming deal. And watch it there. Granted, there’s a cost component to this, right. Okay, whatever. If I want to get around it, then I can do it that
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:27
way. Black marketing with the VPNs to throw that in. That’s
Maury Brown 31:30
it well, but I think that it, what we’re seeing here is everybody, the NFL, right, the NFL is the biggest player by far over everybody. And they’re jumping on the Amazon train. Everybody is jumping into the streaming thing trying to get their handle on it. Look, we just saw that I was
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:49
in Korea five years ago, and I couldn’t get the NFL. And I find that I was in Seoul. I mean, I like a real place. And it was impossible for me to get the game I was in Japan 20 years ago for 9099. It came into my hotel room. Like you know, it really does depend on where you are to some degree as to what you get. But the thing that’s blown my mind during this whole era is that the Orioles were supposed to get rich in the Angelus family off of the expertise around the delivery of their television network. It was always garbage it was always trash down there Kevin Brown getting hazed last year about all of it. But the worst part is that it’s a Friday night my wife and I want to drive to Ocean City and I just and I pay them I pay through cable I pay for maths and maths is make I’m paying for the game, but I can’t get it on my phone that that was the part and that’s going on forever and ever and ever and ever. And it was like well then listen to the game on the radio. Like I own radio station. I don’t I’m glad BHEL still in business you know what I mean? Like it’s good, but they’re they’re the notion of this you know, eating off your own arm you know, I’m saying like they haven’t figured that out and to your point you’re like I’ve been beaten on them for 20 years you have access to the commissioner they read the internet they know what the problems are they they’ve not been quick to solve these problems as quickly I shouldn’t say quickly time of game the man for man on second like all these things, these then these happen quickly. But it took him 30 years to get to that point, pitcher not batting, you know, all of that stuff. It feels like it’s glacial, but it really feels like a true disconnect when it’s the actual access to the game itself. Yeah,
Maury Brown 33:28
I mean, so the changes of course the rule changes attendance is up and before the diamond Sports Network again, the valleys fortnight network bankruptcy and Comcast kicking them off. Basically, the numbers were trending up. That’s why regionals forcement. Were November’s are going to be all over the place. Right. And it’s very hard to suss stuff out in aggregate. I think that thing that there was a
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:51
feeling that live sports was the only thing left that television was going to support 10 years ago, I heard a lot of that. And that’s why the Sinclair boys all went in and bought these things. Right. Yeah.
Maury Brown 33:59
Well, now well, Sinclair went all in but they over leveraged themselves. I mean, that was their dad made a bad, they paid whatever that was worth. Right. Yeah, I think that the biggest change Nestor, everybody saw it coming. They just didn’t know when it was going to arrive. And what really threw a wrench into that whole thing was the pandemic, because what happened was people figured out, you know, what, I don’t really need to go out and I don’t really need to watch sports, and I don’t need to really have traditional television. I want to watch I’m stuck at home. Let me watch movies. And so you saw this. There was already subs feeling away from traditional cable and satellite, and it just massively accelerated. And here we are. It’s kind of like, you know, there are people that telework, I don’t know if you know, for those that are out there, there are people that you know, were in the computer industry and they were able to work from home. And then the pandemic ended and they went you know, But why do I mind going into the office at all, I’m actually more productive at home. And so the model changed it really, some people did not slide back into the normalcy of the whole thing. We’re just now starting to see van attendance back to where we were before the pandemic. So it’s been a slow ride. But look, I think in five years, this thing has to settle in, you’re going to it’s like anything else in a Sir, when something new comes along, there are all these you know, one offs that happen, everybody gets out in there. And then what happens is, the big fish start to gobble up the little ones. And they become the true aggregators and the players in that the bad thing is in that in that transition phase, everybody’s just like, Where’s my stuff, I just want to watch my stuff, I don’t want to pay for it here and have it be gone, and a year and a half or two years, just tell me where it’s going to be with some sense of certainty. That is not a known quantity anymore. I mean, I’ve had discussions around different sports properties. And the ability to get a 10 year deal is almost impossible. In this day and age, they’re much shorter, because they’re trying to figure out they’re playing with players that may not be that big right now. They’re hoping for it, you know, like, again, I’ll go back to Roku, they’ve got an arm in because the television you buy off the floor, at whatever, wherever you buy it at may come largely with a Roku interface. So they get an automatic audience by simply by osmosis. So again, I think that what happens is, is that going to continue to grow. Did anybody see Amazon being as big as it is now? Oh, of course not. No, we didn’t? Well, there were other e commerce things that were a million ecommerce places, those places are largely gone. I mean, there is ecommerce that goes on. But Amazon is the big player. And that again, I think will be what is going to happen in this thing. Sports will always be the prime property. Because it’s live, it’s unscripted. It will always
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:05
be you can bet on it too. I don’t know if you’ve heard that lately. That’s true. Yeah,
Maury Brown 37:09
don’t yeah, that Oh, boy. That’s a whole topic. We could go well, you
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:14
know, revenue streams. I mean, that’s what all these teams are hoping that becomes a larger piece of the pie. So they can, quite frankly afford Adley rutschman.
Maury Brown 37:22
So this is where you said, you know, where’s the money going to come from? And that that is a huge piece sponsorship growth? And that really, and then obviously, how things center on the gaming industry. And so the the sports leagues, every dog on one of them, has been involved in an athletes scandal already or a personnel scandal, obviously, we’re showing Oh, Tony, To be
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:48
continued. Yes. And, and probably at some point, probably shoved under the rug, in some cases, if it’s if it’s too hot for them, but the NFL will get a special commissioners are to come in to give an oral report when they’re, I mean, like that, that’s where the scrutiny of journalism is really gone for all of this, to say that they are they’ve set up a dice game, and they’ve adjudicated who owns the dice, who blows on them. And who decides whether that’s a seven or whether that’s an aid, like literally, especially when you’re doing balls and strikes and 1000 not fouls. It’s it’s really, if the government will be involved in this before, it’s all over with marring, I promise we
Maury Brown 38:29
so this is I’ve got a, you mentioned the writers.
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:33
I have your years out on Shoeless Joe, bro, I know
Maury Brown 38:37
I’m on I’m on. I’m on the committee. The what’s called the gambling committee, we just the baseball writers just adopted at the All Star game. So it’s in our Constitution, we had to go through and create rules that basically said don’t release your awards pics, until after their words have been announced. Because it influences the line. riders that are involved with a primary goal of their outlet being about gambling will no longer be allowed. Riders are going to be held to a standard in baseball and God willing crosses over to the other ones. Because if you can have it’s become so embedded now that it’s almost weekly, very quickly, very early. So we’re, you know, kudos to my, you know, to the rest of the baseball writers who saw this as something that we had to get out in front of, and try and do something about this to try and do whatever was possible to avoid this. That is the problem. That is the biggest problem and the players are notified they’ve know about this stuff. But it’s like it’s so pervasive and so easy and accessible with your phone now. Well, look what’s happened Well, the gambling Yeah, yeah, and the leaves are not going to walk away from this, there’s no way. I mean, there is no way on this earth that they’re going to walk away from it because they want to see of course the revenues, you’re going to look for new revenues and amplify the channels of where those revenues come from, wherever it can be found. And if one is starting to lag off, ie, you know, the media side of things, then they’re going to try and see how they can make it up on the other side in the interim until they until the thing gets sorted out. My
Nestor J. Aparicio 40:35
brand is here he is baseball Mara you can follow him the metaphors the business of sports and all these sorts of places, and he didn’t want to talk any rock and roll baseball must be fun again for us because like I didn’t even get any your scorpion stuff in here or any of that hair fest. I mean, you’re in the middle of like, the season for rock and rollers like you. Yeah,
Maury Brown 40:56
I played Friday, I almost passed out. I came really close was like 97 get
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:01
a high. Come on. Hydrate, bro. Come on. Yeah, so that was Friday with the scorpions
Maury Brown 41:05
thing in the heat of the day. And then I played Saturday night. And it was epic as normal. Yeah, I’m in the season. I’m playing Wednesday. You know plan Oh, the Washington County Fair. So on the main stage, and a bunch of other stuff coming up. So now let’s just say it’s the you know, this is the the salad days you know, everything happens really around the summer for festivals. And it’s a lot of fun. You know, my brain says I’m still 20 My body is the next day it just doesn’t rebound like it used to man. I’m just not as clearly not as young as I used to be but it’s it’s awesome. As the stuff behind me shows. You get
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:47
to rock and roll gear. There’s others. Listen, I will just say this with you without scorpions. I can’t have scorpions covered guitar player blacks out there’s a little Scorpion references black there he goes. He did there i rocky like a hurricane is what I did is places a zoo Maury brown taking his holiday out to Portlandia and I keep it safe out there keep it right in Portland I’ll come out and visit you sometime soon get to the Rose Garden and do a proper Pearl Jam concert or something like that. All right.
Maury Brown 42:18
All right, man. You take care of yourself. It’s always great to talk to you. Always great we got baseball trading
Nestor J. Aparicio 42:22
deadline stuff we have like a legitimate like a real baseball team here now like we got things to talk about. Luke’s talking about him. He’s at a training camp as well. I am this we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking Baltimore positive
