Our mentor and longtime columnist at The Baltimore Sun, John Eisenberg returns with more lost Bird Tapes telling the history of Orioles baseball, and schools Nestor on Orioles offseason ownership history and some Washington and Baltimore football lore as the Commanders come north to face the Ravens.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles offseason, empty seats, fan frustration, new ownership, payroll increase, brand problem, football rivalry, black quarterbacks, Baltimore history, baseball season, ticket prices, community connection, NFL playoffs, quarterback evolution, Baltimore positive
SPEAKERS
John Eisenberg, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T, Towson, Baltimore, Baltimore, positive. We are positively into Baltimore versus Washington football week. Here, the baseball games never felt like anything rivalry, but it’s football and it’s my birthday this week, and it’s Leonard raskins birthday this week, and it’s Luke Jones’s birthday this week, and it’s Jim Palmer’s birthday this week. So we’re getting together at Pizza John’s and Essex. I’ll have the Raven scratch offs to give away from the Maryland lottery, friends at Jiffy Lube. Multi care, powering us up and, of course, liberty, pure solutions, getting us out to 26 oysters in 26 days. One 800 clean water. If you need well water, you need clean water, you need drinking water. I have drinking water here. It’s good thing I have some water in this segment, because I’m gonna let this guy ramble on about all sorts things, because he is a mentor to me. He brings the wisdom to the program. You know him as the former Baltimore Sun, long time columnist. I am a column Ness. He is John Eisenberg. He is done the bird tapes and Hank Peters is now available here, baseball season, football season, converging. John, I you know, you got a book on black quarterbacks. You got all these things you do. And I purposely sort of thought I’m gonna get Eisenberg on that week and my birthday, and they’re gonna be playing playoff baseball, and we’re gonna be and instead, we’re in a whole different conversation here, I think, on the back end of the baseball season. But your bird tanks were brilliant. It was a brilliant sort of season for the most part, but the requiem for the Orioles is really, really rough this week, based on these exits and based on not hitting the ball, and more than that, and heartbreaking for me, and you know me as a Baltimore kid, seeing 10,000 empty seats at playoff games, bad optics.
John Eisenberg 01:44
Yeah, that wasn’t great. That was, you know, not a good look for the city. I don’t know. I think there’s a number of factors. I saw these polls online. Why? Why was, Why were there empty seats? You know, I think it’s a number of factors. Definitely, I think the fans listen. I have intense fans in my family, and they were frustrated with this team and kind of, and that’s not to say they didn’t go to the game because they did, but it was kind of like the season was over. It was a relief. We’re tired of looking at this team just the way the season wound down, it was not appealing baseball. It was tough to watch, and so I think that had something to do with it. There was not a lot of faith in the team. I do think the 408 on a Tuesday afternoon against the Kansas City Royals, good luck drawing a sellout crowd there. I don’t care whether it’s in in October or July or February.
Nestor Aparicio 02:42
What is that I would figure the old white people that are scared of the city and people, they make a day of it. They take the day off. Rabbits played a playoff game in the middle of the week, tickets for 10 bucks. I mean, I I feel like they have a brand problem. And if it’s the people are too old and too white and too sprung out to, like, get there, then they need to do more here, because tickets for 10 bucks. John, I mean, it wasn’t price point. It really money. School teachers can’t get there. And certain people with lifestyle and work, but I’m just shocked, they couldn’t go 45,000 deep attempts to throw
John Eisenberg 03:11
Yeah, yeah, no. I mean, it should be better. There’s no doubt. And now you look at places, where was it Sandy? Was it San Diego? I saw, Wow, an intense atmosphere at the games, football crowd, because they don’t have a football team anymore. Well, yes, and you know that may be part of it, but you would hope, what was it last year? Well, last year was, I’m trying to think they didn’t play the first round playoffs. D,
Nestor Aparicio 03:37
right, right. Tickets were 7580 bucks to get in and sold out. I mean, it was, it was clean, it was, it was an opening day type of pricing, you know what? I mean, it was a premium price, but it wasn’t what ALCS tickets are going to be, which is 250, 300 to sit on the roof, and then the World Series is going to be grand, you know, right, right. Well, I don’t know what this fan base I I don’t know how deep people’s pockets are for this. I mean, I always wondered out with hockey playoffs. Well, you know, Leonard Raskin and I talked about, it’s not cheap. Football tickets aren’t cheap. I get all of that. But there is a point with the baseball thing that the affordability of going anytime and the love of the team to your point, wick was pissed. He they were going to lose and but he was not going to be there. Was, it not going to be the noise, you know what? I mean? Yeah, yeah,
John Eisenberg 04:24
no, no. He went and you know there were. It’s too bad there weren’t. You know that it wasn’t sold out. I will say, you know, the way that season wound down. It was hard to watch. It was hard to watch, just the continual and, of course, brings into mind what an interesting off season it’s going to be, and you know who’s going to get blamed and how they’re going to proceed forward from here. It isn’t it’s an interesting place that they’re in as a team. And to see how, you know they still have so many, so many good things, you know, all these young players. They got a new ownership, and you have to believe there’s going to be more payroll. And, you know, a good team, they still won 91 games, and a kind of a depressing season, the way it went down, so we’ll see, but it’ll be an interesting off season, and I’m sure there’ll be a lot of excitement come March and all that. You know, they’re in a better place than they were, but they still have work to do.
Nestor Aparicio 05:19
You’ve written a lot of requiems and a lot of really bad Oriole teams through a lot of years where they couldn’t, they wouldn’t, they can’t, they didn’t. All of that. I wrote a very heartfelt, long letter to David Rubenstein last week that as one of my writing coaches and mentors, I hope you read it, because it was, I’m 56, years old now. I’m not writing stuff just to write it. I mean, it has a real sense of purpose in regard to what the city is the empty seats last week, I wrote it before the seats were empty. I wrote it fully believing and even saying to Luke, they’ll sell the tickets. I was blown away that there were that many empty. Blown away. I know I feel, I think everybody else is going to go marching down there for 10 bucks and be into it, because it’s five it because it’s fun. It’s baseball. It’s October baseball. Hey, and you’re like, who wants to see the Royals? Bobby, which might be the best player in the sport this side of atani, right? So there’s and not to, let alone our players, rushman aside, right? And whatever his ills and pains and all of that, I would just say for me, this off season, I have high hopes that it won’t look, feel, smell, taste, appear to be anything like the last 31 years. In regards to who Katie Griggs is, who David Rubenstein is, who his people are, what the obvious is, is that the empty seats have to be acknowledged, and that this is a brand that’s a they’re starting from somewhere, not at 55 wins. Thank God for that, right? I mean, we saw that. They’re starting at we got a really good team, and we used to have a really good brand, and Washington’s there, and we’re not getting those fans, although Mr. Rubenstein looked like he was down there recruiting at the commander’s game the other day that how can this market, this team, this franchise, move beyond being played into small market, because it has been that was my fault. With 10,000 empty seats, I’m like, Man, nothing screams low payroll. We’re a small market. We’re poor and broke then 10,000 empty seats playoff game. I mean, it screams, I can’t, you know we’re gonna, we’re gonna by gunner Henderson. Are we gonna put game we gonna play here?
John Eisenberg 07:31
Listen, you got to spend those two things may there may be a correlation. You got to spend your way out of that mentality. Very honestly, you have to spend your way out of it. You have to sign some of these guys. You have to go burns. Okay, say Corbin. Burns is gone. Find another pitcher. They get another pitcher the starting rotation. You know, good, high quality pitcher doesn’t have to be burns. You spend your way out of that mentality. I think you said you set the bar higher. You just say, okay, yeah, we got some nice young players. Clearly, as this season went along, what was evident is you need some veterans too. There has to be a mix a lot of these young guys. It’s a slow process, even when they get here. And you know, I’m not sure Jackson holiday was really ready for Major League Baseball all season, and yet he was here, you know, and so we’ll see. But you spend your way out of that mentality a little bit, and it’s, it’s high time to not happen. You have a guy, he said, I’m not here to make money. I’m here to bring something to Baltimore. Well, okay, well, let’s see what. Let’s see what that looks like.
Nestor Aparicio 08:34
When did you arrive in Baltimore? John, 1984 what month in 19 because that’s an important year.
John Eisenberg 08:42
Yeah. No, it was eight. Let’s see. Eight months post colts, 1984 November, november of 1984 Okay, Colson just left the Orioles were one year removed from the World Series.
Nestor Aparicio 08:56
In an homage to my dearest friend John Allen, who wrote the song she’s still preoccupied with 1985 40 years you’ve been here and you’ve witnessed this, and you weren’t here at the very beginning of Lucchino and the Edward Bennett Williams. You know part of that, what did you find as an out of town columnist, the same thing that Laura Vesey, Mike Litwin, all of these people that came in from other places to genuflect at the Babe Ruth Museum, and the the legend of Brooks, Robinson and Johnny Unitas and the things that you found here, I mean, the football team had just left, so forget that you came in. It was, we weren’t gonna have a football team. We’re gonna have her, Bell, grad, servant, crab cakes into perpetuity. The baseball part of what you found here was 83 they won. 84 they didn’t. 85 they’re trying to figure out how to bring Earl Weaver back. It was an issue. They bottomed out in 88 they came back and. 89 and then they built a ballpark, right? And they had a different ownership that was sort of that I’m promoting your bird tapes, by the way, John, in your 1980s baseball history here, but Katie Griggs, and whatever my expectation is for her, it is extremely the bar is set extremely high by Larry the keynote, Janet Marie Smith, and all that was done during that glory period of not having a football team. They got $600 million to build bigger, whatever they want, bigger and better. They have a billion, billion billionaire owner who is 74 and probably wants to win. I guess. I don’t know anything about him. He hasn’t stepped forward to be anything other than a guy throws hats out and makes commercials at this point, in regard to civically being involved here, in a way where Larry Lucchino put boots on the ground and Marty Conway talks about that. Tell me that 84 to 92 period, where I had a press pass all those years, and I got my car from Highland town and went out to the ballpark and saw 1824, pretty much where the franchise is now. Some nights they give a tanker out and they get 38,000 they’d sell some tickets so they didn’t have bobbleheads then, but big series Yankees had come in. Nolan Ryan would pitch. They’d get 40,000 out there for a night, whatever. But Larry and Janet Marie grew this thing into DC that really gave a lot of money and a lot of skybox and a lot of Washington Post and a lot of Larry King, and will give me his name, will whatever it is, the Republican dude. So nonetheless, there was some inertia around Cal Ripken and all that that happened that really led to a lot of money being spent here in the mid 90s on the alamars and the seroson, the Palmyra, all that stuff that we did. I don’t know where this is going to be, but it’s not going to go back to that. But they better figure out what this is and get some boots on the ground, because they got to sell tickets in skies. They got us really sell a brand that is where it is right now, but still be loved. But they got to go make some money. They got to figure out where the money is here. John, yeah,
John Eisenberg 11:59
they do, because in the 80s. When I got here, they were still living off those glory years. Even though the organization was at a tipping point, there’s no doubt. And as I’ve done these bird tapes and listened to all these interviews intensely, I feel like I could teach a class on you know what happened here? I mean, it’s it’s really interesting what happened. And it really goes back to the start of free agency in the 1970s and suddenly, the fact that the Orioles were not making, I mean, Hank Peters told me in his bird tapes interview, which I just put up today, he just let it slip that there, there was maybe a couple years where the Orioles lost money. You know, under with Jerry hoffberger was, was the owner. And I’m like, Whoa. Serious. Brooks wasn’t
Nestor Aparicio 12:38
making anything worth drawing
John Eisenberg 12:41
anyone they had 1200 season tickets. I mean, so yet they were great on the field. So it was a very interesting place they were in. Were they equipped for the big money era of baseball? They were not. And so that had a lot to do with it, and that had a lot to do with what happened to the team.
Nestor Aparicio 12:57
Remember plan A and plan B free agents? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was hidden, see it in the paper, and saying, my dad would say, we can’t afford Reggie Jackson, yeah.
John Eisenberg 13:05
Well, that’s really interesting, because Hank talks about it in his interview with Me and Earl Weaver and his bird tapes interview ripped Hank saying, you know, we should have gotten, we should have kept Reggie and, you know, we could have done it and but, you know, if you listen to Hank, who was also at that point, you know, was a, was, you know, sort of running the you ran the business side as well, then too, as GM, and he’s like, we didn’t, you know, we didn’t. We had 1200 season tickets. You know, 12. They
Nestor Aparicio 13:34
knew how to play baseball. They didn’t know how to sell tickets. Yeah, yeah.
John Eisenberg 13:38
They didn’t know not. And so, you know, then oil magic happened in 79 is the year when everything changed. And it was the year hofburger sold a team, and Edward Ben and Williams comes in, and he’s a DC guy, and he’s able to tap into that DC market, which had already started, by the way, before he before he took the team over. But so the oils that I ran into in 1984 85 they were still living off that they were really well run still in many regards, it was What shocks me, what I really think about looking back at it years later, it was a small business. It was like a family. You had Helen Conklin, you know, you know, the secretaries had been in there for 20 years. Everybody knew them. They probably had 20 employees. You know, it seems like, I mean, talking about front office, not scouts and all that, and
Nestor Aparicio 14:26
they all had to be nice to every John Eisenberg and every fan and every Usher, because they needed the money.
John Eisenberg 14:32
And they were nice. I mean, it was just a nice smile. It was like a small family business. It was so small, and it was still small through the late 80s there, and of course, when they moved to Camden Yards in 92 and Greg Olson talks about it in his bird tapes interview, which I haven’t put up yet, but it’s like, you know, everything changed. You know, became a bigger the players could see it. It became a just a big business. It was there was more money on the table. More fans, everything better, everything in regards to off the field, was just accelerating dramatically. And that was true, really. It
Nestor Aparicio 15:09
captured the community, right? The community, the community. They
John Eisenberg 15:13
had the community. And especially with the Colts gone, they had the community. There was no one else here. They had a team, even though the team was going in the toilet. You know, there was so much goodwill built up from all those years of winning. And you know, you still had guys on the team. I mean, Rick Dempsey, When did he leave? Like 87
Nestor Aparicio 15:32
again, that walked off the Flanagan, 91 right? Yeah. So
John Eisenberg 15:35
you still have Peter from 76 Yeah. You had vestiges of it. So there was a lot of goodwill left over. And when the Colts departure, there was this intense, I’m sure you remember, there’s this intense sort of, you know, put our arms around what we
Nestor Aparicio 15:49
do have. And last, I mean, I text with Kenny Cooper last week, the blast, were a great example of something that really thrived because of that.
John Eisenberg 15:58
Yeah, yeah. So that happened and now, so, I mean, it’s never going to go back to that, how it was so small. I mean, this sport, you know, sports has changed. I mean, is completely changed. I mean, the Orioles front office has what hundreds of people in, and I have no idea, and that’s just the media department, yeah, yeah, it’s huge. So there’s just so much more in this branding, you know, and it spreads in so many ways, and, and I couldn’t even begin to tell you, so there’s a lot more overhead, and it’s just no longer a small family business, it’s a corporation. And so you you just sort of, but, but, you know, the goal is the same, capture the community and find some way for people to feel connected to the team. And so strides have been made. That’s good, because and winning helps. There’s no question winning is the first thing. If we’re still at 55 wins a year, it would be rough looking ahead. So winning is the bottom line. Has to be part of it. And so they’ve actually sort of done that. You know, they haven’t won the World Series, but the way, what? What 192 wins in the last two seasons. That’s pretty good. So they’ve won a lot of baseball. And now it’s a question of, how do you, you know, translate that to the business side? And, you know, Katie Griggs, it’s an interesting position. She’s in, by all accounts, pretty sharp cookie. And I’m interested to see what happens.
Nestor Aparicio 17:25
Well, I am as well. And, you know, and that’s why I’m saying, like the day that they call the next press conference, that hopefully I’m there asking questions as well. I’ll know things have changed from my perspective. But more than that, like the the optics of we’re going to attack those empty seats. We don’t like empty seats. We we’re going to spend money. We’re going to be in the news. We’re going to have a press conference every two weeks. We’re going to bring back the the Christmas carnival on the club level to buy tickets. We’re going to and they’re going to be half price that night. If you buy them in December, you’re like, whatever they’re going to do, whatever the orange club is. I mean, John, they had $65 come see the team for the whole month. I don’t know how the people that have actual tickets feel about that, but I know, and this is the God’s honest truth. This is speaks to the Charlie Ekman in me. This speaks to my father and the shot and beer town that you found in 1985 right? The non club level fan here, the non Ruxton, you know people that my dad $5 ticket was a $5 ticket, you know, for me, with thinking about how to position their brand and where they are, for all of this, Brooks is gone. They’re trying to Cal all of that stuff. They have great players. They’ve got great traditions. They’ve been good on the field. I think there’s an embracing part for them to stay in the news and stay relevant. They didn’t. They haven’t had their spring training games on television on their own network in 2018, years, 19, however, long they’ve had the network like things they could do to elongate the season the way the NFL never goes out. The Ravens get eliminated. They run the ball three times and get their times. They get their ass kicked. We’re going to lick our wounds next week. Lamar is going to be the MVP, and we’re going to sign players, we’re going to sell tickets, we’re going to have a draft, we’re going to stay in the news, and we haven’t had that news cycle for baseball here in a long time, to be active in the off season and be engaged in the off season, because the players don’t live here. Manager nobody. They just go away. Baseball takes a 90 night, um, and, well, it doesn’t come back till April for a lot of people in Baltimore. And that’s, that’s bad on the brand for me.
John Eisenberg 19:35
Yeah, no argument there. I mean part of and that’s sort of industry wide, by the way, it’s not just a Baltimore problem. It’s true industry wide, all these teams deal with it.
Nestor Aparicio 19:45
I mean, they don’t sign players early anymore because it costs more, right?
John Eisenberg 19:49
Yeah. I mean, baseball has myriad issues, you know, and and some of them are, you know, this extra level of playoff. Is, you know, it’s one thing, you know, I sort of, I’m not a huge fan of it. I never have been. I’ve always sort of believed I’m really old school, old and old school. But, you know, 162 games I feel should mean something. And I’ve always felt that way. And, you know, adding a wild card team, that was good, adding two, adding three, it’s too many. And so you’ve got a whole nother layer of games. And so when you dilute you’re diluting the regular season a little bit. You’re diluting the playoffs a little bit. And as a result, I it stands to reason you’re diluting the fascination with it all. I think you know that you’re diluting the fact that you have to be there in that first round game. You just are, I feel. And so the Yankees in
Nestor Aparicio 20:45
the Orioles played a series a week and a half ago that meant nothing, that we thought could have meant everything, and in the modern format, it just didn’t mean anything and nothing.
John Eisenberg 20:53
So I that’s how I am, and I’m in the minority. People love playoffs. People love the postseason. I like the winner. Go home drama and, you know, March Madness aspect of it. And, you know, it’s all, well, good. I always felt that baseball is a little different. Football, it is different, you know, it’s one game, and there’s so much pressure on the one game, you know. So the one game wild card thing was kind of interesting. I thought a lot of pressure on that. So I kind of liked that, but I like
Nestor Aparicio 21:24
that better than this, and I like it better than pitchers either grease and bats for five days for these, for the teams that win, we saw that that wasn’t a good recipe for the Orioles last year. Mean Time will tell this week as to how the Phillies in these teams do. But
John Eisenberg 21:38
so I don’t love it and so, but I think it impacts the fascination with it all a little bit too, and that’s baseball’s issue. And you know, then, then I’ll go back to it, you know, playing a game on Tuesday afternoon. And, yeah, I mean, you’re certainly right about the empty seats, but you know, baseball’s not helping with Tuesday afternoon at 438 and then, oh, tomorrow’s 408, and, you know, it’s like, what the hell? So, you know, but that’s where it is. And so, you know, there’s no going back. They’re only going to add playoff teams, not subtract them.
Nestor Aparicio 22:11
You know, the baseball gods of Wrigley Field will tell you that they should only play baseball games in daylight. John is here. He is. He still has the bird tapes. I would highly encourage everybody go out. If you love the Orioles, you love the history of the Orioles as much as I love the history of the Orioles, which is what I wrote to Mr. Rubenstein and my Peter principles that like I have studied the history, John has studied the history. There are very few of us that have tried to capture in words and in in magic. That’s now 3040, years old, 50 years old, in some cases, some of the stories in the bird tapes we’re on to modern times. Um, I don’t want to get into Lamar necessarily, in the Cincinnati game, as much as I want to get into the Baltimore, Washington football thing with you as a historian for all of this. And having been there for Herbie Bell grad so crab cakes for Rankin Smith and Leonard toast. And you know, everything that happened here for football, and Governor Schaefer saying, you’re not getting a team in Laurel. We’re not going to build you a parking lot of roads to get in there. I had my capital center retrospective guys last week. We even talked heavy metal parking lot as well as caps and wizards and bullets and West unselded, all those other things you loved, but the football Baltimore Washington thing only get together in four years. Hey, man, Washington finally got something to crow Beth. They got something to CRO about. They got a quarterback. They got a different name, a different owner, all that stuff. It is a state rivalry. It really is two Maryland teams getting after it in a rare case, but your black quarterback book comes right into play here and where we are with Jayden Daniels, and where we are with Lamar Jackson, to say, and I made a case for Joe burrow this week as well doing it the old way. This is a fascinating matchup for Baltimore V Washington at this point in whatever little rivalry there might be in the minds of me and some old school Baltimore people, because the Washington people never cared much about us.
John Eisenberg 23:51
No, no, I mean, but that situation, it has changed dramatically. And I think one thing that people in Baltimore fail to understand a little bit. Is it the commanders? Of course, they’ve changed their name, and they’ve gone through a lot of branding changes and everything, but as a franchise, the fact that they’ve been in Washington since, I believe, 1937 just by virtue of that, everything’s bigger. They got more fans. They got a higher ceiling of revenue. I mean, you know, it’s not so much revenue, because it’s, you know, it’s everybody shares the pie in the NFL, but it’s a big shouldered franchise, and they’ve been down a long time. I mean, it’s like the Orioles in some respects, and they’ve been down a long time. They have better ownership now, and a better, you know, and a great young quarterback. I think it’s exciting for them, good for them. I mean, you know, I hate to see it’s just depressing. I mean, you talk about what I envision, what I came to in 1985 was the Washington Redskins on top of the world, you know, with a 40,000 people on the waiting list, or whatever it was. And I started going to football game. Least Baltimore suns. You know, there was no team here anymore. I’d go down and cover. I was assigned, by the way, I was assigned to go cover Washington game. I’d write some story, come back and, you know, get all these letters. What the hell are you doing? Why? Why are you going on there? I
Nestor Aparicio 25:11
don’t care about what Joe thought after beating the Giants. We don’t care. Yeah, one of them. What
John Eisenberg 25:16
are you doing? But let me tell you, that place was hopping and that team was rolling, and so, you know, you just hate to see pathetic decline like that. And it’s, it’s not good. So, you know, good for them. It’s fun. They got a good young quarterback, and, you know, more power to them. Let them. Let’s see. They got a good coach, I think, Quinn. And it looks like they’re riding the ship a little bit. Again. It’s a little bit like what’s happening with the Orioles. So, you know, they could come in here and win. Who knows. But you know, they, it seems like people have barely stopped them for like, a month, so, and then certainly the Ravens didn’t stop the Bengals. I mean that they, you know, they barely made a they made a couple stops at the end of that game, and until then they couldn’t stop the Bengals. So looks like Washington could come in and move the ball. Be a great game. Be a great game. I wouldn’t want to be playing opposite Lamar. And like any game, you know, along those lines. I mean, that was just an A shootout to end them all in many regards. And you’ve got this incredible offense on the other side that was pretty much unstoppable, and somehow Lamar pulls it out, running around and stiff arming, and he, you know, he, what a performance. I mean, I, you know, I do think people in Baltimore, you know, by the third or fourth quarter of that game, I’m like, you know, I don’t know if they’re going to win this game, but it sure is entertaining. NFL. Football can be pretty boring, and it is in a lot of places, but it is not boring here, with that guy running around doing what he does. It is fun to watch. Well, if
Nestor Aparicio 26:48
we get to the point this week, and the game could have been flexed and like all of that, right, we get to the point that it’s Baltimore versus Washington for, um, the big game in in New Orleans or sometime down, that’d be great. I would think that John Eisenberg would be just a great guest to book on Super Bowl week from radio row, because you’ve written a book on black quarterbacks and sort of the this game defines the modern part of all the history sorted laureate, awful, racist history of the league that we’re in a different place now, when it’s Jane Daniels and Lamar Jackson, and people are saying, I would rather have either one of these than Joe burrow and run my offense that way, if I could, if I have an X factor on the field every week that every defensive coordinator has to contend with, it’s it’s a lot more difficult for Zach or to deal with one versus The other it’s almost impossible.
John Eisenberg 27:40
I mean, you know, the offense is, it’s almost impossible to defend what’s going on in the NFL these days, with some of these offenses, they’re so smart, they’re so precise, and, you know, they’re so good at at seizing the advantage at personnel, Three on two out on the wing, you know, you know, they’re really good, they’re really good at designing plays and and so I think it’s really hard to play defense in the NFL right now, and so, but the position itself has changed, you know, completely changed the quarterback position, and that’s part of what I wrote in my book. I mean, it wasn’t just, I sort of traced the entire history of the quarterback position and what teams wanted. What teams wanted in a quarterback which was unchanged, really into they wanted straight drop back white quarterback, really into the 2000s there were a few little blips along the way, you know, but they that’s what they wanted. And so really, only in the last 12 or 13 years have teams a widespread nature across the league embrace the idea of a guy who can run as well as throw, can move, doesn’t just stand in the pocket. And so the position itself has undergone a fundamental change. And so, you know, and it has benefited black quarterbacks. It’s opened the door. And so it’s great to see. I mean, just sitting, what I do now on NFL weekends, it’s just sit and watch and and it is quite amazing to see how many you don’t even think about it anymore. The Dallas, Pittsburgh game on Sunday night, that’s a matchup of black quarterbacks. No, you know, historic rivalry, they were selling it as on TV. Well, you know, that’s a little spin on history right there. That was not the case before two black quarterbacks in the Dallas, Pittsburgh game, which was, of course, Super Bowls played, not black quarterbacks, and no Super Bowls. So it things have changed a lot and for the better. And it’s great to say makes me GLaD I wrote the book, because I think it’s, it’s, you know, really, really important history for people to understand what it means. Now, when you see Jaden Daniels and Lamar squaring off in a game, you know why it is a story and should continue to be a story for a while. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 30:00
John Eisenberg, gonna wrap things up here. Some football, some baseball. I want to go back to baseball and the bird takes for you. Promote that properly off season. They’re not playing every day. We’re having fun there for a while. When is Tom chopay and Chico Simone? When are they being released?
John Eisenberg 30:17
They will not be. Will not have them. Yeah, there’s a few others I do get, occasionally, go, where’s MERV Redmond, and I’m like, I’m sorry, I do not have MERV Redmond,
Nestor Aparicio 30:27
you do have Andy etch a baron? I think, right.
John Eisenberg 30:30
I do not have Andy etch Baron. I get grant Jackson. No, did not get grant Jackson. I have 42 interviews. Okay? I’m halfway through, about halfway through, I’ve got, you know, some some goodies still coming. A lot I put up a lot of good ones. You know, all of all the hall of famers and Boo Powell and and, you know, all sorts of guys. And there’s many more good ones. Rick Dempsey, hey, as you and I have discussed, I have two hours of Peter Angelo’s, which is going to be very interesting. I’m going to put it up. I have digitized that one. It will be up within six weeks. And,
Nestor Aparicio 31:07
well, there’s a mic drop. There you go. There you go. Mr. Rubenstein, I
John Eisenberg 31:12
want to hear that bird. Tate, yeah, that will be, that will be, I’ve been holding back on that one, but it’s coming. And
Nestor Aparicio 31:19
that you get me in with that. You know, Peter Angelo’s voice is something I I just can’t wait.
John Eisenberg 31:25
I got tons of guys and so, yeah, I’m going to go right through the off season and keep going, because why not? And
Nestor Aparicio 31:34
there, I did there.
John Eisenberg 31:36
So yes, bird tapes, dot sub stack.com/subscribe, a slash subscribe. Yes, it’s a subscription model on substack. Really good things have happened. I’ve been all over the place promoting it here, as well as many other places. And, you know, substack declared it a best seller. I put a little check mark by my name, and yeah, it’s gotten a lot of good attention, and I continue to be amazed by the feedback, and it’s growing. So I’ll just keep going with it and see and see where it goes. You know, it’s an Orioles History Project. Is really what it is, and it’s gone great. I’ve had a fun time with it, and I’m, you know, I can’t tell you, I have a master plan. I just have this collection of tapes. I’m going to keep putting them up. I’m going to keep writing some history and let people, you know, compare the past to the present and and whatever they want to do with it they can. I
Nestor Aparicio 32:27
will give the same wisdom to Mr. Rubenstein. The past does not equal the future. So I’m hoping that the future is bright for the Orioles and all Oreo fans. Everybody knows that I’m, you know, I’m all in on things that are, you know, honestly, Baltimore and sport Baltimore. So and I would say out loud, as I said in the beginning, I’m brokenhearted that the upper deck was empty. You know, like to me, it bothers me. It bothers me the tickets for 300 bucks this week for Baltimore, Washington. It’s going to be the Washington fans buying those tickets in the stadium, because I understand the economics, because I’ve been a part of it here and grew up into it. So John Eisenberg can be found out on the interwebs. His bird tapes are available at sub stack. He is on all the social media places. His books are there. You want to learn stuff. You need to know people like John Eisenberg to bring that thing full circle, John, take care of yourself. I got you out for a crab cake sometime soon, and John Lowenstein on your tapes. Or no, no
John Eisenberg 33:21
brother I talked to him on the phone. Talked to him on the phone. He, he, you know, he just wouldn’t do it. He was kind of funny. He was he when I wrote this thing all those years ago, I think he was done with home team sports, and he was like, I’m playing golf, so I’m like, okay, whatever. Brother, low man.
Nestor Aparicio 33:39
He went off into the sunset and and he wishes me happy birthday every year on Facebook. But I can’t, I can’t, I can’t get him out, you know what? I mean, I wish I could get him out, you know? But, yeah,
John Eisenberg 33:50
yeah, it would be great. The history is so great. It is interesting. Hey, I’m reading John Miller’s right now, a copy of, I got an advanced copy of the Earl Weaver biography. Excellent, excellent. It’s a telling me the story of Earl which, very honestly, I’m shocked. I didn’t really know it, and I think most people didn’t so great job by him.
Nestor Aparicio 34:12
You know, I hit him two weeks ago, he was in town, and he wanted me to come downtown and read the Earl Weaver script of the Haller fight he’s got fans doing. Knew you’d love that. And I figure if you and I do it together, you could be the umpire and, you know, you get to say for effing up World Series. And I you know, I mean, we could go back and forth.
John Eisenberg 34:37
Oh yeah, it’s so great. Hey, I love on the back. They got George Will’s, uh, blurb on the back, you know, you know, his blurb on the back of the book, he’s got George Will saying, you know, Earl would be the one like, you know, the umpires having a bad day, and Earl would yell in from the dugout, Hey, are you going to get any better? Or is this it? You know? I mean, just one line after the. Other. He is missed. He is so missed. Well, he’s still alive
Nestor Aparicio 35:03
in the minds of John Miller, and that’s John with an H, not John with a San Francisco Giants let go. This is John Eisenberg with an E. He is my former mentor at the Baltimore Sun we had a great reunion of Baltimore Sun writers. We all got together. Larry Harris looking like a million bucks, and some of the old timers. We also, and you’re not a part of this because you weren’t lucky enough to be at the news American when we were there at sports first, we did a 40th anniversary of the demise of sports first with micro signal. Pete kurtzel, Chris Zang, some of your other former colleagues who edited your work as well. We did that two weeks ago here. And Gene Boyers, our former photographer as well. So go check that out. John’s old school, he’s new school, black quarterbacks, but bird tapes, horse racing, Iron Men, the history of the National Football League and the movement of forward progress of football, right? I mean, you’ve written all sorts. Do you have another project or No, am I’m not allowed. I don’t
John Eisenberg 35:59
know. Just the bird tapes. Just the bird tapes. Yeah, got a few other things humming along, simmering on the back burner. We’ll see you get
Nestor Aparicio 36:08
21 more Orioles to put out. I’m trying to figure out, if you don’t have luminaries like Tom chopay and Chico Simone, maybe have Lee May and rich Dower, maybe I call Dick Hall,
John Eisenberg 36:23
got him. All right, that’s
Nestor Aparicio 36:25
the format’s a little early for me. I’m trying to think, you know, we mentioned, and I’ll Ron
John Eisenberg 36:29
Hanson Rookie of the Year, 1960 All right.
Nestor Aparicio 36:33
I like that. You know, the whole that’s the Aparicio era. I like all that. Yeah, we referenced the great, great Kiko Garcia last week, because, and I’ll leave you with this, his birthday is my birthday. So happy birthday. Kiko Garcia, next Monday. The 14th is the birthday. The 11th is what we’re gonna be doing our birthday celebration. Luke’s birthday was last week. We’re still all birthdays this week. So pizza, crab cakes, meatball subs. If you want ice cream, they got beer. They got chiante. They do it all. It’s pizza, John’s and Essex. Come on down and give you scratch. Also the Maryland lottery, friends at Liberty, pure solutions firing up. 26 oysters in 26 days, 26 ways for our 26th anniversary, in conjunction with curio wellness and foreign daughter, who helped us celebrate maritime magic and living classrooms foundation last week, Jiffy Lube MultiCare is powering up Luke Jones back and forth to Owings Mills as we get ready for Baltimore versus Washington and watching other teams play baseball while we have our noses pressed to the glass, I’m rooting for the padres, even though I never liked Manny Machado. I’m rooting for him anyway. To honor Tony Quinn back for more. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us. We’re having fun this month. You.
