Luke Jones joins Nestor to break down how Ravens lost to Bengals to exit playoffs and what happens next for the franchise with so many changes coming.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ravens, game, play, lamar, talk, john harbaugh, lamar jackson, cincinnati, lose, touchdown, chance, injury, point, week, trust, question, year, quarterback, agent, season
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
What about w n s t test the Baltimore and Baltimore positive these are always the toughest segments of the year. The Baltimore Ravens arenโt eliminated. Festivus is no moss the playoffs are over. Ravens losing Cincinnati on Sunday night late into the evening, Luke Jones will be at lockers for locker room clean out happening the beginning part of this week but we will certainly be cleaning out our notebooks in the coming months. Look, I was gonna give you some oxygen man, they they almost won. You know what I mean? Like they they had a chance to win, which probably makes this even more sort of stinging in a 98 yard touchdown return for an over the top quarterback sneak that went awry.
Luke Jones 00:49
Yeah, no question about it. And I mean, if you think back to the playoff loss in Buffalo two years ago, it was the Turon Johnson 101 yard interception return when the Ravens were driving. Lamar Jackson and the Ravens were driving trying to score the game tying touchdown. What was one of the last plays of the third quarter? I guess it was so. I mean, disappointing. I think what you just said rings true in the sense that I think there was a lot of resignation that thereโs no Lamar Jackson, the Ravens were significant underdogs I think there was an expectation that they were going to lose. I donโt think necessarily a lot of people thought they were going to be blown out. But I think a lot of people certainly werenโt many people had a lot of competence. Letโs put it that way. But the Ravens played the kind of game the style a game that gave them a chance, the defense was once again largely very, very good. Especially after Joe burrows, one yard touchdown run with five minutes to go into third quarter. The only other first round the Bengals got the rest of the game came on the roughing the kicker penalty. I mean, that shows you how great the defense was over the final 20 minutes. But I mean, you make a mistake at the goal line when youโre getting ready to go ahead. And it goes the other way. I mean, a 14 point swing right there. And the offense wasnโt good enough in the end. And at the end of the day, the Ravens with a chance to tie the game in Cincinnati at poor redzone possession and baffling clock management. How many times have we talked about that combination throughout the season? So no comes back to some of the things that I donโt know if thereโs anything that we saw that changed my mind drastically from where I was before the game? I think itโs going to be fascinating to see what happens with Greg Roman. You know, I think that stating the obvious in saying that, but thereโs so many more questions that weโll get into Lamar Jackson, and, you know, the future of this offense as its presently constructed, but just disappointing when you have that kind of a chance that the Ravens had before. Before if Sam Hopper takes it 98 yards the other way, I mean, just you pick out gut wrenching ways to lose a football game when youโre an underdog and you have a chance over the final 12 minutes of the game. Thatโs up there. You know, man, I mean, thatโs really high up on the list as far as agonizing ways to lose to lose it on a record setting fumble return for a touchdown. But, you know, even after that the Ravens had a chance, you know, and John Harbaugh stood by the clock management at the end, but I hear what heโs saying. But in his rationale for the way they handled the clock reminded me a lot of bucks show Walterโs rationale for not using Zack Britton, itโs itโs very easy to talk about what could happen next. But you still have to execute and succeed in that moment, the Ravens needed to touchdown. Worrying about Cincinnati scoring after the fact doesnโt matter. If you canโt score the touchdown, and well, you get into the red zone with plenty of time left. And the game ended with Tyler Huntley. Basically throwing a Hail Mary, that should tell you something went awry with your process and your execution over the last minute or two there. So now but itโs something weโve talked about all season long. And itโs something weโll continue to talk about. And itโs going to be a very, very interesting week beyond locker clean out and wondering what players will be back which players wonโt be back, which is just standard for this time of the year when your season comes to an end can be a fascinating start to the offseason to see what happens with the coaching staff with Lamar and seeing what what this football team looks like in 2023 which is you know, oh weโre nine or eight months away I guess from the start of the 2023 season.
Nestor Aparicio 04:34
I wouldnโt have been the one that would want to recap you know, a season ending itโs much more compelling where was Lamar you know, how is the injury where is the money where is horrible whose job security whoโs coming back, we can do all of that. Letโs talk about the game though. Right? I mean, letโs stay in the game for a moment because I thought they were gonna get blown out because I thought a backup quarterback whoโs been injured, who hasnโt practiced coming in to lead a team against Cincinnati, I just thought Cincinnati would score more. I thought Cincinnati would be more effective against their defense. I thought thereโd be more possessions. There werenโt a whole lot of possessions in this football game. It was a dream game for the Ravens. And when I wrote my prediction, and I think I predicted 3716 or something like that, really not that far off, they scored another touchdown at the end, but I would just say for me, and I pick on hardball, and Iโm playing hardball is a dishonest? I donโt think heโs a high integrity guy. And the longer that Iโve gone into this as a human being watching him lie to me, all of that. But if youโre gonna give me his team in this kind of a game, if he can keep a team close, I mean, John wobble never gets blown out. Heโs been here 16 years, they never lose by three touchdowns ever, ever, ever, no matter what, no matter the game plan, because generally, they play pretty heavy football, and they have decent special teams. And as a franchise, they donโt have turnover problems as a franchise, they donโt have penalty problems. So thatโs just his kind of coaching his style in this game. If I were on television, an hour before the game with Chris Simms, Iโd pick the bangles. But Iโd said beware that this is a well coached team. And these are veteran players. And while the quarterback may be a neophyte, chances are veteran players will show up and play like veteran players in this sort of environment. And Iโll tell you what, when the game was close, and Huntleys, on the line, I was kicking myself a little bit for not believing more in the purple. And in the well, of course, theyโre gonna be a touchdown down are in the game, because theyโre always in the game. Theyโve been in the game all year long to think that they wouldnโt be in the game was a little foolish for me. They had a real chance to win the football game. And Iโll continue to go back to that. And Iโll beat on that and harp on that, because that unto itself, kind of surprised America, I think on Sunday night. Yeah.
Luke Jones 07:10
I mean, you talked about this, even at the end of last year, even as they lost six straight. I mean, other than what the kind of weird post Christmas, lots of COVID going on, obviously they were decimated by injuries. Yeah, that was the one game that got blown out down the stretch last year. You know, theyโre always in games. And theyโve theyโve had a very high floor over the last few years. Thereโs no question about that. And I think the big question is the upside. And you know, itโs difficult to talk about a team with upside when youโre missing your best player in franchise quarterbacks not on the field, each of the last two seasons to finish the season. But youโre right. And I mean, I picked the ravens to lose by 10. I thought it would be a close game in the sense that I thought the defense would do enough against job or I didnโt necessarily think that the defense would be as good as it was. But I figured itโd be good. And we we saw that last week. You know, I mean, that was a 27 to 16. ballgame. That was not 27 points that you would blame the defense for. I mean, it was short fields, turnovers. I mean, we saw how that game played out. Not that I necessarily was going to say that that game was equal to a playoff game in terms of importance and, and all of those things, but they fight hard, hard for John Harbaugh. They do thereโs no question about that. They play hard, they keep it close. You know, theyโve had a very high floor. However, at the same time, I think you do look at where the Ravens were in the first half of the John Harbaugh era to where itโs been since 2014. Theyโve been out of these last four trips in the playoffs. Theyโve been one and done three of them. Now theyโve had one playoff win since Lamar Jackson became their franchise quarterback so
Nestor Aparicio 08:54
Lamar to some degree and to say that itโs an indictment of everyone. Thatโs you know, that he hasnโt played the last half of two seasons it name any franchise in the league that hasnโt played the last half of the last two seasons, without their without their quarterback, whoever their quarterback is, even if their quarterbacks not Lamar Jackson, you you this whole thing has been nightmarish for me, and Iโll go through in the offseason for the minute they drafted him knowing that he could get injured heโs gonna run in the linebackers and that this could leave them naked in January and all that being said, Yeah, Tyler really gave a chance to win. You know, like a is a little part of Lamar who, because weโre gonna No no, no, come on. I mean, why does she think Lamar is coming back? So I think thereโs gonna be a Lamar who, okay, well, thatโs fine, but Tyler Huntley is a good backup quarterback.
Luke Jones 09:42
I mean, if youโre gonna sit here and try to say like, you know, theyโll be fine with Tyler Huntley. No, theyโre not. Oh, no, no, Iโm
Nestor Aparicio 09:48
not saying that. No,
Luke Jones 09:49
I just I want to make I wanted to make clear because itโs not a Lamar who I mean, we could say itโs a Lamar who if heโs gone, but while you got to replace him then
Nestor Aparicio 09:57
and letโs face it, if heโs gone and he canโt play into it Remember last year she canโt play in December this year? He canโt play January this year and my Lamar who is um you know, he wouldnโt even on the plane man like if weโre going to talk weโll have all offseason to talk about all the truth will come out. But like, I find that odd that the guy who was the leader of the team wasnโt there. The attaboy even if he was sitting on the bench instead of standing on the bench because of his knee I just optics just all of it. I mean this whole last month has been a mess. I do agree with that. I mean you cover this. But but the game itself despite all of that, they really they didnโt they didnโt lose 65 to seven like someone else than last week.
Luke Jones 10:42
And I donโt think anyone would have reasonably expected something like that. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 10:48
receive it but a couple of touchdowns. I thought they could lose 37 to 16 I thought Burro would throw it over their head once or twice, you know, chase with to enough. That being said if weโre going to talk brass tacks of the game, their offensive line I donโt think the Bengals can win the Super Bowl. Just just like get them now. I donโt think they can win. I think their offensive line suspect.
Luke Jones 11:07
I mean, letโs face it go back to Christmas Eve. Theyโve lost three starters on their offensive line. And I mean, the initial work on Jonah Williams was kind of mum now they wasnโt really sure what it was gonna be but that didnโt look good. You know Alex kappa thereโs a lots of sentiment wondering if heโs gonna play again. And I L. Collins is out for the year already. So no question about it. I mean, theyโre gonna face a tall order. And that was something about this game that I did wonder, you know, as I picked the bangles to advance, you know, one thing I did wonder was because we saw the choppiness in week 18 that we saw on the physicality that we saw in the regular season finale, I did wonder if this would have a game that you think back to old ravens Steelers from 15 years ago? How many times did we see those two teams beat each other up, and then they were pretty worthless. The following week, the Bengals would go or the Steelers would go out and lose to I donโt know, Jacksonville or the Ravens. I remember in 2011, the Flacco to Torrey Smith year, I believe they went to Seattle the following week and lost against the Seahawks team. That wasnโt very good at that point. So you could see a little bit of that. But I mean, itโs thereโs just obviously, thereโs so much frustration here. And you know, a lot of it stems from not having your quarterback on the field for the most important games of the season, then, you know, how much of that is? Now youโre worried about availability and, and long term health, how much of that is, even if heโs going to be fine, physically moving forward, that he wasnโt out there. And he hasnโt been out there the last two years to close the year. And thatโs very frustrating. And how much of this is a lack of trust between the organization and player at this point? I think I think it would be naive to not think that thereโs some level of disconnect here, some very meaningful level of disconnect, you know, even before this latest injury, just because youโve worked on a contract for the better. Itโs
Nestor Aparicio 12:54
so interesting. You say that dude, because I was I was I was thinking about this in the middle of the game. On Sunday night. Iโm thinking, Oh, my God, they didnโt bring him on the plane. Are they trying to embarrass him? Or is he trying to embarrass them? Is this a negotiation? Like your team? I mean, Iโm saying like, and hard balls demeanor at the podium the last three weeks, and sort of that sourpuss face that he would have not a feeling of care and concern, and weโre very concerned about the human. And of course, Lamar wants to play and of course, like Lamar show, tell him how you want to play. You know what I mean? Like, thereโs none of the normal things that Iโve seen around this franchise for 15 years, in regard to hardball. And I the word you used, and this is an important word for anybody in our audience in regard to anything in life. Trust, the Ravens have broken my trust personally. So therefore, I look at them with a completely different level of integrity. And Iโm wondering if the quarterback doesnโt trust them. And Iโm thinking to myself, or they donโt trust him? Because it seems to me that they didnโt think he was as injured as he was. And if he was that injured, they would be disappointed. But thatโs like you being disappointed if youโre at your knees if she breaks her leg and falls and sheโs just got like, you canโt be angry at an injury. You they seem displeased, Iโve never seen displeased and an injury, unless thereโs more there for scratching and pulling back a little bit. But trust like that is when you donโt trust the other side. Oh, man, and that really feels to me like youโve you hit the target on this and if anybody wonders about my feelings about the team, thatโs my issue. My issue is theyโre not trustworthy. Theyโre not I have first hand experience saying they canโt be trusted. Lamarr doesnโt trust them right now.
Luke Jones 14:53
Well, and let me be clear, eight an injured player not traveling for a road game is hard. hardly unprecedented. Itโs hardly something that is uncommon, letโs say to spin around the locker room in Pittsburgh, oh, well, weeks ago when I was there, right. Well, and thatโs I was just going to say, what has made this peculiar and unlocked. Thereโs been so many questions. And I mean, John Harbaugh has been so reluctant to talk about Lamar every step of the way. I mean, we know that speaks volumes, right. Well, but itโs not itโs not unsurprising. John Harbaugh has been this way talking about injured players since heโs been the head coach, you know, 15 years. So Iโm not shocked in that way. But you just mentioned it. He was there in Pittsburgh. That was the first game the Ravens played after the injury he was there was not there the following week in Cleveland. Now. It is a little bit of a longer trip now. Weโre still talking Cleveland, not a cross country trip to LA. So And I recall, I think it was Stacey Daleโs because NFL Network did that game and Cleveland had made mention that the Ravens didnโt want him to travel because they were worried about swelling. And his knee, you know, had residual swelling in his knee. So the Ravens didnโt have another road game at that point. Until they went to Cincinnati last week. Oh, he there he was wasnโt in Cincinnati last week. And I mean, NBC right off the bat, mentioned in the telecast that he wasnโt in Cincinnati. On Sunday night, maybe thereโs like a chilly either. I would say this much. And again, Lamar put out his update, you know, people will know, plenty of people are believing it 100% Other people are a little skeptical. I mean, again, people so many people have their mind made up, it doesnโt even matter what you and I even say about it in that regard. I mean, people are gonna feel how they want to feel about and look, thereโs plenty of conjecture and unknown here. Itโs not as though weโve been privy to lumbars minute by minute day by day itinerary. So yeah, Iโm not even going to go there from that standpoint. But, you know, if you take what he said in terms of his knee not being stable, and the fact that heโs dealt with swelling, which is something that has been reported at a couple different points by NFL Network, and Adam Schefter, etc. So if there is still swelling, then that would be grounds for someone potentially not getting on an airplane and traveling. Now. Again, people can take the take that how they want and people will believe what they want to believe feel how they want to feel about that. But certainly the optics of it surreal thing, the swelling, Iโm not gonna six, by the way, have you? Have you ever been caught on and got on a plane? And thatโs my, I have it but but thatโs my point. So that, that, but thatโs my point that itโs not unheard of. I mean, Ronnie Stanley, early in the season, was not traveling to two road games with them. You know, I mean, he made his debut in one week five, I guess it was, you know, he didnโt travel the first couple games. And you know that because when the players listed as questionable, and then theyโre ruled out on Saturday, that is an NFL rule, if you have a road game, and you do not travel with the team, and you havenโt been ruled out, youโre then ruled out at that point. So and we saw that Ronnie Stanley was downgraded in some of those early road games, so itโs not unprecedented. Again, if heโs still dealing with swelling, then that would be grounds for not traveling and not getting on an airplane, whether whether he was going to be an option to play in Kansas City if the Ravens advanced by chance or not. Thatโs not unheard of. But again, the optics of it. Sure, I mean, Iโm not gonna sit here and say itโs a good look. But I wanted to give that background at the very least for people who are wondering, and I had the same question and thought it was kind of peculiar, right off the bat when he went to Pittsburgh, and then wasnโt in Cleveland The following week, you know, makes you wonder, you know, it was there. Not a setback necessarily. But was there a diagnosis that did end up being a little bit worse? You know, again, we were so quick. And I donโt mean, you and me. I mean, in general, weโre so quick on so many different issues on social media. Thatโs why social media can be so toxic, that we take one side or the other, we take one side is 100%, truthful. And the other side is, while youโre just blatantly lying, when in many cases, thereโs, you know, itโs a sliding scale, as far as where does the truth really fall? Was the injury downplayed a little bit by the Ravens? That wouldnโt surprise me, it wouldnโt be the first time that theyโve done that. And, you know, could Lamar Jackson be? I donโt want to say exaggerating, or, you know, maybe be more concerned about it than what reality is. And then yeah, you do talk about the contract and business factors that are at work here. Is that plausible? Of course it is. You know, that doesnโt mean that Iโm saying heโs jacking it or that the Ravens have, you know, tried to sabotage him, you know, I mean, itโs, thereโs nuance to it. And thatโs why this entire situation going back two years now, it was two years ago, when we started talking about a contract he was eligible for an extension after that playoff loss in Buffalo. From that point on, they could talk turkey in terms of a long term deal. So weโre two years into this now. There has been a lot of nuance, thereโs been a lot of conjecture. Thereโs been a lot of confusion, a lot of debate going back and forth.
Nestor Aparicio 20:00
Well, you can make the Ravens given to under $50 million at this point by not playing at this point and not being they seem unhappy with him. And Johnโs tenor and Johnโs demeanor and Johnโs words, and Johnโs body language says to me that thereโs thereโs a lack of trust, that was your word. And thatโs the word I was going to use on Sunday night thinking, do you trust them? Or youโre honest? Or, or do you have an honest relationship, and part of this, and I know this will be the truth. And Eric, the customer probably never speak to me again. And thatโs fine. But the truth is, without an agent, this is a very, very awkward circumstance, when a player gets hurt, there is no buffer, thereโs no one else to communicate with other than his mother, I guess, and his girlfriend and M. And weโve seen his lack of maturity. Weโve seen it. Weโve just seen it in general and social media in the way all of this has been handled. And whatever advice heโs getting, itโs different than having an agent on the phone with Eric dโacosta, which is what Eric is used to, which is what the organization is used to, which is the way they do it. Itโs the way itโs the way they play the game. Negotiation wise, information wise, injury wise, relationship wise to some degree, that that game is played through an agent. And without that buffer. You get this you get a lack of trust and a lack of communication because that direct contact between Eric Decosta John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson. Itโs not normal. Itโs not normal. When thereโs no agent in there.
Luke Jones 21:49
Yeah, I mean, the one thing I will say is, they made it work with real Quan Smith. I mean, he doesnโt have an agent. Now $100 million
Nestor Aparicio 21:58
self row, Quan Smith walks up to the podium. Excellent. And it speaks in adult terms. And apparently that wasnโt very difficult. They got it done. Other things been a mess. Right and
Luke Jones 22:09
quick to point out here $100 million contract for an off ball linebacker as lucrative as it is, for an off ball linebacker. It is an inside linebacker not a franchise quarterback, whoโs won a unanimous and the NFL MVP, right. I mean, you know, itโs a little bit of a different animal for quarterbacks in general, right? I mean, agent, even if you have an agent, you know, youโre talking about lucrative, lucrative, lucrative money. And in this case, very unique circumstance with no agent and on the heels of the Deshaun. Watson deal, as we talked about all offseason. But, you know, I think whatโs whatโs tough about this, though, is, you know, if youโre the ravens, if youโre Lamar Jackson, yeah, put on a happy face. Because this is, you know, this isnโt a case where the ravens are just going to let them walk, I mean, theyโd be dumb to do that, that would, that would be a fireable offense to just let them hit free agency. So theyโre gonna tag them.
Nestor Aparicio 23:01
And theyโre also not gonna beat him up and call them soft and say that he didnโt have any role to play, because theyโre going to try to trade him and get every every first round pick and get out of it.
Luke Jones 23:08
I mean, however, you want to play this out, you know, whether you think thereโs still enough trust there to salvage this. And, you know, Iโm not saying that there isnโt that that scenario isnโt possible here. But either way, youโve got to put on a happy face. And you got to try to make this work from that symbol, even, even if long term you both both sides have made up their mind that theyโre not going to continue their long term relationship. You know, even if youโre made up your mind in that sense, you donโt want to let the rest of the world know that thatโs why it was funny to hear NFL Network and some of the national reports over the weekend at the Ravens were saying Lamar is still their guy. I mean, of course, theyโre gonna say that youโre, you have to say heโs still your guy until heโs not anymore, right? I mean, and Iโm not even saying that they say anything
Nestor Aparicio 23:53
now, right? Like itโs, oh, youโre gonna ask our ball. A couple questions. Itโs gonna go away. And weโre going to see Eric appear at some point around a draft time. Right. We should hear from him before that. Weโll get into this in the coming weeks. But the notion of five days a week then having to ask answer questions about Lamar is knee Lamar is money is Lamar playing this week. Thatโs over with now. So now everybody will go into the into a hole. And theyโll come out of this hole when they figure out whatโs tenable. Who would want him Where are we dealing him? Who can I talk to? What are we really going to get for him? Because I donโt think theyโre at the point with Lamar, how much money do you want now? I donโt think there is a negotiation now in regard to that, because whatever his value was a year ago to them, heโs worth less to him. Heโs worth more to him. Heโs you see what you do you play without me? To them. Theyโre like, yeah, we saw we played without you. Thatโs why weโre not giving you the money because we play without you. So I man these next 90 days as much as I can I tried to stay to the game Luke, weโll take a break here. Weโll talk about the offseason. But the game was fascinating and I donโt want it the theme go, weโre gonna get into all the rest of this. Luke Jones is here. He will be in Owings Mills all week long, as long as they allow him and theyโll be cleaning lockers out and there will be more playoff games this weekend. There will be more coaches hired this week. There will be Greg Roman situate, all of that is coming down the pike. But in the meantime, weโre gonna continue to talk about Sunday nightโs loss to the Cincinnati Bengals the ravens are eliminated. You can find Luke at Baltimore, Luke, you can find me anywhere the internet is served. Weโre gonna get the Maryland crabcake Tour presented by the Maryland lottery conjunction with our friends who could will back out on and win donation Iโd say itโs a 690 nation. You buy two, you get two free and you paid no financing for five years. Thatโs even a better deal than they gave me so go take advantage of that. Weโre gonna get the crabcake tour back out on the road next week. I have some more information on that coming up later on this week. In the meantime, itโs all purple around here. As the Ravens enter the offseason we are wn st am 1570, Towson Baltimore. And we never stop talking Baltimore positive