A chilly Thanksgiving feast: Bengals at Ravens with the whole world watching

Short rest, tired bodies and a prime time Joe Burrow vs. Lamar Jackson AFC North showdown in Baltimore for the holiday. Luke Jones and Nestor limp into Thanksgiving with many concerns for the Ravens as the quarterbacks step up in weight class for the emerging defense and No. 8 tries to play through the pain.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the upcoming Thanksgiving night game between the Baltimore Ravens and Cincinnati Bengals, highlighting concerns about Lamar Jackson’s health and performance due to ongoing toe and other injuries. They noted Jackson’s recent practice participation and the team’s five-game winning streak. The conversation also covered the Bengals’ defensive struggles, particularly against the run, and the potential impact of Joe Burrow’s return from a toe injury. Both analysts emphasized the importance of the Ravens’ offensive line and the need for efficient red-zone performance. They concluded with reflections on the significance of the game and the team’s playoff prospects.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Send Kocos to the nursing crew at GBMC for helping save Nestor’s life.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Schedule a visit to the BMA and somewhere near Johns Hopkins for something other than a surgery.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Set up something with Gertrude to get back with Dan Rodricks.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Invite Nestor for a Maryland crab cake tour at a place called Honeys in Halethorpe and back at DiPasquale’s in Canton.

Lamar Jackson’s Health Concerns and Thanksgiving Game Preview

• Nestor Aparicio welcomes listeners to the show and wishes them a happy Thanksgiving, mentioning various Maryland crab cake events.
• Nestor thanks Luke Jones and Greg, a listener, for their support and discusses the importance of colonoscopies and health screenings.
• Nestor and Luke discuss Lamar Jackson’s ongoing injury issues, including his toe injury, and the challenges he faces in staying healthy.
• Luke highlights the significance of the Thanksgiving night game against the Bengals, noting the spotlight on the Ravens due to their recent winning streak.

Impact of Lamar Jackson’s Injuries and Team Performance

• Luke Jones explains the impact of Lamar Jackson’s toe injury, comparing it to Joe Burrow’s previous turf toe injury.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential impact of Lamar’s injuries on his performance and the team’s overall strategy.
• Luke mentions the importance of the offensive line in protecting Lamar and the need for the running game to perform well.
• Nestor expresses concerns about the team’s ability to finish drives and the potential for turnovers in the cold weather game.

Bengals’ Offensive and Defensive Capabilities

• Nestor and Luke discuss the Bengals’ offensive and defensive capabilities, particularly the challenges faced by their defense.
• Luke highlights the importance of Joe Burrow’s return and the potential impact of his limited mobility on the Bengals’ game plan.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for the Bengals to find success with their running game and the importance of key players like Chase Brown.
• Nestor expresses concerns about the Ravens’ ability to handle the Bengals’ offensive threats and the potential for a close game.

Ravens’ Offensive and Defensive Strategy

• Nestor and Luke discuss the Ravens’ offensive strategy, including the importance of the running game and the need for better red zone performance.
• Luke emphasizes the role of the offensive line in protecting Lamar Jackson and the need for consistent running game success.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the importance of the Ravens’ defense in stopping key players like Jamar Chase and Chase Brown.
• Nestor expresses concerns about the Ravens’ ability to handle the Bengals’ offensive threats and the potential for a close game.

Potential Outcomes and Key Players

• Nestor and Luke discuss potential outcomes of the game, including the importance of key players like Kyle Hamilton and the offensive line.
• Luke highlights the potential impact of Kyle Hamilton’s ankle injury on the Ravens’ defense and the importance of his performance.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the importance of the Ravens’ ability to finish drives and the potential for turnovers in the game.
• Nestor expresses concerns about the Ravens’ ability to handle the Bengals’ offensive threats and the potential for a close game.

Thanksgiving Day Game Predictions

• Nestor and Luke make predictions about the Thanksgiving Day game, including the potential for a close game and the importance of key players.
• Luke emphasizes the importance of the Ravens’ defense in stopping key players like Jamar Chase and Chase Brown.
• Nestor expresses concerns about the Ravens’ ability to handle the Bengals’ offensive threats and the potential for a close game.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the importance of the Ravens’ offense in finishing drives and the potential for turnovers in the game.

Final Thoughts and Thanksgiving Wishes

• Nestor and Luke share final thoughts on the Thanksgiving Day game, including the importance of key players and the potential for a close game.
• Nestor thanks listeners for their support and wishes them a happy Thanksgiving.
• Nestor and Luke discuss upcoming events, including the Maryland crab cake tour and other community activities.
• Nestor expresses gratitude for the support of GBMC and other sponsors, and looks forward to the Ravens’ game on Thanksgiving night.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Lamar Jackson, turf toe, Thanksgiving game, Bengals, Ravens, offensive line, red zone, Joe Burrow, Kyle Hamilton, Derrick Henry, Zay Flowers, Mark Andrews, pass protection, cold weather, playoff contender.

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SPEAKERS

Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S T, am 1570 Taos at Baltimore. We’re Baltimore positive. Happy Thanksgiving to everybody out there. If you get a turkey in the oven, pumpkin pie, if you get the right kind of mashed potatoes, I’ll come over. Just invite me, Nestor, Baltimore positive.com, I’m going to be inviting all of you out for Maryland crab cake we’re doing the Maryland crab cake tour. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. Ever even scratch offs been a lucky batch. I’m going to have the candy canes to make my bag smell nice come December. Thank you. Roz and John Martin and we’re going to be doing the crab cake tour a bunch of new places, place called honeys in althorp. Two weeks from Friday, we’re also going to be back at deepest squalies in Canton, also setting something up with Gertrude to get back with Dan Rodricks get back to the BMA so I can get cultured in the arts and get somewhere near Johns Hopkins for something other than a surgery. And of course, our friends at GBMC. I want to thank them before I go into this. I have now heard from Luke Jones. I have heard from Greg our listener. I have 10. One of them just happens to be and I think he’s part of like the nursing crew there. I’m trying to figure all this out. I’m trying to ship him some Cocos over there for helping save my life last week. So get screened, get your colonoscopy. Listen to your wife, your girlfriend, your mother, your daughter, whoever’s bothering you, your brother, and maybe in this case, or in this case, it’s Luke Jones, who he’s on the cusp. He’s not quite 45 but I’m watching out, watching out for your health, and we’re watching out for the health of Lamar Jackson, right? So when I wrote my column this on Monday. We went through hamstring, right then it was knee, then it was ankle, now it’s toe. And Jen said to me over dishes the other she’s like, isn’t that what got Deion Sanders turf’s toe? And I’m like, that’s what got John Ogden. And I don’t know it’s a, it’s a Joker’s game when you’re dealing with John Harbaugh and press conferences and the HIPAA violations and and reports. But either way, they gotta go play football on Thursday night, and Joe burrows coming, you know, kind of off the shelf, and we’re gonna see what they got under the hood. This is a, just an interesting game on Thursday night, I think for a lot of reasons, for both the franchises and I think as I had Dave Lapham on the show, who played the game for 10 years, and played with Chris Collinsworth, who’s off on Thursday night, thankfully for all of us, I think there’s a point for Thanksgiving night when you’re playing that game, you realize The whole world’s watching. I mean, just really a, it’s kind of a Super Bowl y kind of Night in America, where everybody will be tuned into the game no matter what, because it’s just kind of the thing to do.

Luke Jones  02:50

Yeah, and you think about the typical Sunday night game, most people are doing what? Early the next morning, getting up for

Nestor Aparicio  02:56

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work, Black Friday, sleep at halftime or something. You know what? I mean, like that. I mean, you have not

Luke Jones  03:01

that everyone’s off on Black Friday, but that’s become a more and more of a day where a lot of people are taking a long weekend, or some companies just flat out give them the night off. So I mean, John Harbaugh even was cognizant of that when he was asked about playing on Thanksgiving. So there’s definitely a major spotlight. There’s a spotlight on this football team in a positive way, in the sense that they’ve won five in a row, they’re back in first place in the AFC north. But there’s also a lot of intrigue in terms of what’s Lamar Jackson look like this week. To your point, Another week, another ailment. We don’t need to look too far to understand what a toe injury can mean. And I will point out that he was back to practicing fully a day after he was listed there. I don’t think this is a case of a serious turf toe like Joe burrow, who missed the last two months recovering from a major toe, you know, turf toe kind of injury, but it’s certainly something that you just add to the list, right? And look, there’s, I do wonder and whether each of these ailments individually have been that big of a deal, or is there one specific one that’s really the one that’s giving Lamar the most trouble, right? There can still be gamesmanship, right? There’s still a sense of he’s taking off the first practice of every week at this point. And if that’s what he needs to do, that’s what he needs to do, right? We’re seeing on Sundays, and we’re probably going to see on Thursday night that he’s not looking 100% physically. We’ve said that for a while now. So how much of it is, oh, my goodness, is the toe a really big deal this week? Not necessarily, but whatever the injury that’s lingering here, and for all we know, it could still be the hamstring or it could be something else that they haven’t listed.

Nestor Aparicio  04:48

I have just gone hockey dude and called a lower body injury.

Luke Jones  04:51

It’s lower body, right? Exactly so. But Lamar was asked about it. He was didn’t hesitate. He said it happened in the first quarter. He said he got tackled on a play. Nothing. Like nothing malicious about it. Just got tackled. And when you get tackled, weight of a defender comes down on your foot or your knee or your ankle, or whatever it might be. And he said he just felt it. But the fact that he was back practicing the next day, he was running around on Tuesday during the open portion, wasn’t, wasn’t barely able to walk, or anything extreme like that. So we’ve talked about this a lot. I’ve, I’ve talked about this for years. You know, when we go back to was it 2021 when the Ravens had that long list of just devastating injuries before the season even started, if you remember? And the following year, you know, I talked about the idea of when players come back from injuries, there’s healthy enough to play and there’s healthy enough to thrive. Lamar Jackson’s healthy enough to play, right? He’s not out there, not able to move at all. He doesn’t look like he’s 70 years old trying to walk around or run around out there. But is it peak Lamar in terms of healthy enough to thrive and look like generational dual threat, greatest rushing quarterback in NFL history, Lamar Jackson, I think, I think we know the answer to that right now. Now hopefully gets through Thursday night’s game. Okay, he has this mini buy. You give him next Wednesday off, let’s say hypothetically, and maybe you’ll get a version of Lamar that’s closer to 100% I’m not going to say 100% none of these guys are 100% as we’re turning the calendar to December here in a few days, but we’ve talked about it when you’re having lower body injuries to your to use your descriptor there, Whatever is plaguing him the most out of those various ailments, it’s tough to really think that he’s going to heal up to a degree, that you’re not going to have some concern about it, that you’re not going to have at least a little bit of limitation with it. But that said, All that said this team’s won five in a row, and they’re going up against the Bengals team that has been historically terrible defensively. I mean, Aaron shots just saw his latest DVO a column, and the Bengals are on track to be the worst DVO a defense that they’ve tracked over, what, 30 years, 40 years, 50 years, whatever the database goes back to. And by

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Nestor Aparicio  07:23

the way, you just got Aaron schotts invited on the show, so, you know, you got ideas, you know, but,

Luke Jones  07:28

but they’re not gonna have Trey Hendrickson, and once again, and that, that’s a bad defense. So even if Lamar is not 100% you’d still like to be able to move the ball. And that was, that was my source, I think everyone’s source of frustration coming out of the Jets game that you had a Jets defense that was not very good, and it traded away sauce Gardner, and it traded away Quinn Williams, and yet they still struggled. So with that

Nestor Aparicio  07:55

being and you needed a peanut punch, right? Yep, for that

Luke Jones  07:59

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to not be a very, very interesting, scary, last six minutes of the ball game, no question. So that’s where you look at this thing and say, even if Lamar is not going to run a whole lot, and I don’t expect that we’re going to see him run a whole lot, because we haven’t seen him run a whole lot since the hamstring injury, but you still have Derrick Henry, you still have zay flowers, you still have Mark Andrews and Isaiah likely. Rashad Bateman could be back on Thursday night. He’s practicing right now.

Nestor Aparicio  08:26

Keith Mitchell, what about Justice Hill? What about, you know, the other What about the, I just the the other parts of this thing. And again, we’re going to go back to the offensive line, aren’t we? I mean, wind up, right? That’s what this is going to end

Luke Jones  08:41

because going back to what I said about Lamar, if you’re trying to keep Lamar as healthy as he can be at this point in time, whatever that percentage is, right, arbitrarily saying, you know, 90 95% 90% 85% whatever it is, right, I don’t think it’s any less than that. Or you start to get into situation where a guy just can’t play. But if you want to keep him at least in that territory, then yeah, it comes back to your offensive line. And not that this Bengals pass rush scares you, really in any way without Trey Hendrickson, who’s been out now for quite a while and is not going to play Thursday night. But you know, all it takes is one play. But you mentioned Keaton Mitchell, oh, he’s someone that we’ve seen have some success getting to the perimeter. And when you look at how the Ravens have had their issues running between the tackles consistently, and we haven’t seen peak performance, peak production, I think is the best term, not necessarily performance, because that implies that Derek Henry is this mate, you know, this diminished version of himself, and I don’t know, is he a small percentage less than what he was last year? Maybe right? But the offensive line is the overwhelming variable here when we’re talking about this. So, yeah, I want to see Keaton Mitchell get some more touches, and he’s been, it’s been a nice change of pace for them. He’s been. Someone who’s been able to get some yardage for them when they run on the perimeter. So you’re kind of doing whatever you need to do, right? I mean, is this going to be a game where they have to do that in order to win? You know, you’d like to be able to score points against the Bengals. If you can’t score points against the Bengals, and you have another first half against them, like you did against the Jets or go back to the Vikings game or the browns, then, I mean, all bets are just off at that point in time. So we’re going to see, I don’t going into the Jets game. I had this expectation that we’d see the offense look better, and that didn’t really happen. So on a short week, and Lamar not being 100% and knowing what this offensive line has been or has not been, you continue to go back to having some doubts at this point in time.

Nestor Aparicio  10:53

Also get a cold weather game. Sure. No question. I’m glad you brought that up. Just here’s where I am on the defensive thing, right? You can stink all the way down the field and get a peanut punch, or get a sack and force a field goal, and they can miss a field goal. Or, you know, you can get a turnover, you know, a peanut punch, I guess the is the turnover, and you can survive, you know, like that. And the Bengals are going to try to survive that way, right? Because they’re going to probably get pushed around, because they just do in a general sense, I would think that the offense should, at the end of the night, have some yardage and some markers to say they had some success. I think the Ravens will move the ball in the cold now, Derrick Henry had a fumbling problem in September. We don’t talk about anymore, probably because he was he manned up and said he had a problem, right? But, like the turnover thing, problematic, because you can drive your ass down on the Bengals and and then Mark Andrews, the ball hits office between the eight and the nine and goes up in the air, and somebody comes down with the ball. I mean, lucky. I mean, it’s the as Marvin always said, the ball bounces funny. That’s why we don’t bet on it. Um, so for me, I have no doubt that the Bengals will be struggling offensively to some degree, because they don’t have their best weapons. But I also have some feeling that Joe burrow knows what he’s doing, and they’ll find some semblance of a running game, because most teams do against the Ravens a little bit to make it interesting and to get down in distances, to try to shorten the game a little bit. I feel like the Bengals will have the ability to do that. I don’t know. Man, I see this as a closer game because of the division. Part of this because of Joe burrow coming back, because of Lamar is Gimp. I don’t you know. I always worry that this is the one where, like, three turnovers by the Ravens they lose. You know, Bengals turn the ball over two or three times. The Ravens can win by 28 points, as I see it and but I do think cold night Lamar not having the wheels everybody’s breath, you know, they they’re feeling that cold air in their chest a little bit more than you do, fans will be a little more muted, I’m sure, just in a general sense, it’s Thanksgiving night, having energy at 11 o’clock on Thanksgiving nights hard for everybody. So I, I’m worried about this, you know, I’m worried about them a little that they’d show me a lot. And they usually win games like this at home. So on pedigree, on all of that, if you gave me $1 instead, I had to bet it. I guess I would, would think the Ravens will succeed here, but I do worry about mistakes in a game like this.

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Luke Jones  13:49

Yeah, I think you have to. I mean, let’s face it, we saw how the Jets game played out. I have more concerns about the Bengals than I do the than I did the Jets, just because of Joe burrow and Jamar Chase, right? And even throw Chase brown in there, I think Chase Brown is going to be really key for the Bengals. I think, look, we don’t know what Joe burrow is going to really look like. Let’s, let’s call a spade a spade here. We’re talking about someone who hasn’t played a football game in over two months. We’re talking about someone who’s back on an accelerated timeline from a toe injury. And by the way, one

Nestor Aparicio  14:24

of the reasons Joe Flacco looks so amazing in the beginning was he had two amazing wide receivers. Yeah, no, no question, playing in a pro bowl.

Luke Jones  14:33

I mean, that that’s a Bengals offensive line that has played better than it did early in the season, but it’s still not a good offensive line, right? I think with burrow look even at his best, He’s not someone who’s taken off and running, but he’s still someone who’s moving around in the pocket to get the proper throwing lane, to get the right arm angle, whatever it might be. And that’s where we don’t know, and that’s where I think there’s still unknown, even for the Bengals coaching staff to try to figure out exactly what he looks like. And that’s where the. Ravens pass rush needs to come up big, right? You need Draymond Jones and Mike Green and Travis Jones to not necessarily hit him 20 times or sack him five six times, but at least make him uncomfortable that he has to move around. And then that’s when you question, how is that toe going to feel, especially on a cold night, right? So I think he’s going to want to get the ball out quickly. That’s where, not that Jamar Chase is neutralized. But hypothetically, you’re thinking, okay, maybe it’s not going to be the over the top 50 yard pass over your heads that they were able to do against the Ravens a couple different times last year. I mean, it’s kind of what, basically what retired Marcus Williams as a raven, right? I mean, what the Bengals did against them last year. But I think when you look at what the Jets did with Brees Hall as a receiver out of the backfield, I think that’s where Chase brown becomes a little more interesting in terms of, do they try to get some of the Ravens linebackers isolated in space? Kyle Hamilton, who is practicing. The fact that he’s practicing makes me believe that he’s going to at least try to give it a go on Thursday night. But how’s that ankle going to feel? Are you going to have a less than 100% version of Kyle Hamilton? You know, it wasn’t a catastrophic ankle injury. Go back and watch the replay. He turned it right. He He turned his ankle, rolled his ankle a little bit trying to make a tackle that said, you’re talking about it only being four days after that happening. So is he going to be 100% is he going to feel great in that cold weather where it’s going to be in the 30s, right? So, but I think if you’re the Bengals, you’re trying to get the ball to chase Brown and obviously Jamar Chase as much as you possibly can. You want to try to have as much of a run game as you can have. And the Bengals have been better running the football the last six weeks compared to where they were early in the season, even with burrow before he got hurt. I mean, they weren’t running the ball at all. So that’s going going to be key for them. Because, I mean, if I’m Zach Taylor and you’ve made this organization decision that okay, Burroughs healthy enough to play, we know, you know, our season shot, this is mainly about pride and him wanting to get out there and play, and you’ve got a chance to mess up a division opponent on Thursday night, just like they’re going to have a chance to do the same against the Ravens a couple weeks from now, right? I mean, as they’re going to play them twice in three weeks, but at the same time, I’m guessing they’re not going into this game wanting Joe burrow to throw 45 or 50 times. And we know that that that happens quite frequently. That’s happened frequently when he’s played the ravens, even in the past. So I think that’s what’s going to be really key. I think Chase Brown’s so key in this football game. But to go back to your point about the turnovers, the one thing I will say about this ravens offense, Cleveland game aside, even as they’ve scuffled right, that they haven’t been as consistent, and really, we haven’t seen them truly fire on all cylinders. You have to go back to the first three and a half quarters of the Buffalo game. I mean, that’s how long it’s been, where it’s looked like that Greatest Show on Earth Kind of offense, where they’re just completely bludgeoning teams, right? Where they’re just embarrassing.

Nestor Aparicio  18:15

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We’re trying to find a reason to believe Right, right? I would even think on the national stage, eight o’clock at night, everybody’s watching west coast. They’re just getting dinner. East Coast are on their second eggnog and, you know, into another, you know, the whipped cream and the pumpkin pie and whatnot that you want to look like a playoff team, you know what I mean? And I don’t know that that needs to be dominant, or that some facet of this, yeah. Well, either defense

Luke Jones  18:43

has looked that way, at least, you know, yeah, but I mean,

Nestor Aparicio  18:47

against against JJ, against bags, so

Luke Jones  18:51

push back on what you said. They’ve looked like a playoff team. Have they looked like a Super Bowl contender? That’s where I think the rub is. I mean, let’s face it, Nestor, I mean the playoff team threshold is 1414. Out of 32 teams make the playoffs. Have they looked like one of the best 14 teams in the NFL the last five weeks? I’ll give them that, right? I mean, there aren’t a lot of great teams around the league, by

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Nestor Aparicio  19:12

the way, there was a stat with the jets that I want to throw in that we haven’t talked about at all, which is Thanksgiving week, and they don’t have a turnover like that’s how you’re an awful team. And I, to

Speaker 1  19:25

me, exception, yeah, with the ravens, like

Nestor Aparicio  19:29

picking the ball off key, nothing the ball out at the two yard line after you dripped for 6070, 80 yards, whatever it is that that’s how you turn games where, you know, or make them kick the field goal, make them kick three field goals, right? Like, whatever that part of the game is for them, finishing drives, obviously, offensively, you and I talking about, like, from the day they drafted Lamar, we thought that’s the X Factor once they get inside the 10. Yard line. You’re not going to have a hat on helmet to be able to stop this in that way. It’s going to be too tricky. And it’s not tricky at all. And to your point, the offensive lineman don’t move people, so I don’t know how it’s going to look, not 99 rams, but just look effective enough to be in second and two, second and three once in a while that, you know that first down measurement that I always give to say, what are they doing on first down, and is it effective? And sometimes it isn’t, because the offensive line just isn’t winning, yeah,

Luke Jones  20:35

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well, but I’d also say, I mean, go back and look at the first half of that Jets game. They had productive plays on first down. They didn’t do well in second and third and short right? I mean, they’ve had their issues with short yardage situations as well. I mean, really, you look at the offense, and this is very simplistic, but it’s not because it’s so important. They’re 30th in red zone offense right now. Now they’re getting into the red zone plenty, right? I mean, they’re because it’s not as though they’re scoring 10 points a game, right? They’re still managing. I mean, even as unimpressive as the Jets game was, you know, they want, they scored 23 points in that game. I mean, that that’s, that’s not great, but it’s not like worst in the NFL kind of offense, either. So they’re, they’re still moving the ball. It’s just in those situations, they just have not been good enough. But one point I kind of was in the middle of, just want to make sure I complete it. The one thing I will say about this offense, because we were talking about turnovers, right? Cleveland game aside, they have, still, they have managed to protect the ball pretty well here over the last, you know, go back, since the buy, right? I mean, they, it’s not as though they’ve had a ton of turnovers.

Nestor Aparicio  21:42

Lamar goes to the Hall of Fame. That would be my, one of my speed of the biggest things, he’s taking care of the balls. Yeah. I mean, especially with the mesh point of the RPO that I don’t see a lot of that, enough of that to think that they’re tricky Dicky with the ball so much. I mean, a lot more of, it’s about snaps. It’s a lot more of it’s about shotgun and cold weather and, you know, where’s the snap coming from? You know, those are the kinds of problems that I’ve seen them, them have, but Lamar taking care of the football. Mean, he’s made the most responsible quarterback I seen this side of maybe Tom Brady.

Luke Jones  22:17

I mean, think about it, Nestor. And look, I understand earlier in his career, he didn’t throw the ball as frequently, from a, you know, from a volume standpoint, but you’re talking about someone his last four seasons, seven interceptions, seven interceptions, four interceptions, three interceptions. I mean, and yes, in this day and age, compared to 30 years ago, or certainly 50 years ago, quarterbacks don’t throw as many interceptions, generally speaking, as the days of Dan Marino and certainly the days of Johnny Unitas, right? I mean, so it is a different game in that way. But yeah, he takes care of the football. And that’s one thing that, you know, as frustrating as last Sunday was, I mean, that was, we talked about it. I mean, Marlon Humphries forced fumble there. I mean, jets are getting ready to make that. What a three point game at that point in time. And who knows what’s going to happen in the last in the last six minutes?

Nestor Aparicio  23:03

Well, the field felt like it tilted. They were down in the five yard line, you know, they were getting their ass kicked. They were moving backwards as a defense. That’s not what you want to see late in the game.

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Luke Jones  23:13

Yeah, well, and you know, I mean, obviously a defense, they’re not going to pitch shutouts every week. And, yeah, they’re going to have, I we’re gonna see if Joe burrow is Joe burrow, because there’s a possibility that we’re gonna see such a diminished version of him that you’re just gonna say, why are they putting him out there? I mean, that’s entirely possible here.

Nestor Aparicio  23:32

Better make sure Joe Flaco to come off the bench and eat turkey. Oh yeah, of course,

Luke Jones  23:36

although I think part of their problem the last couple of weeks has also been, I don’t think his shoulders right, because he hasn’t had the same zip on the football. But regardless, you are, you’re stepping up in weight class here in terms of quarterback, right? This is a different animal than no disrespect, but Tyrod Taylor is a backup quarterback, and, you know, obviously the the bet the Browns had two rookies, and the Vikings had a guy who’s essentially a rookie, and JJ McCarthy could end up, you know, I guess he’s in concussion protocol. Now, point is, they haven’t faced the murderers or of quarterbacks. They’re gonna have a different test Thursday night. So if this defense, which has played so much better, I mean, there’s, regardless of the schedule or the level of competition, we’re talking about a defense that the first five games of the season was the worst in ravens history. I mean, that’s how horrible it had been. So regardless of okay, you’re not facing Patrick mahomes and Josh Allen and Jared Goff and you know, even Matthew Stafford, who’s probably gonna be MVP this year, but you’re still facing NFL offenses, and you’re looking much, much better these next few weeks now. Hey, you’re going to see Joe burrow. You’re going to see Aaron Rodgers. You’re going to see burrow again with a couple, hypothetically, with a couple starts under his belt where the rust is going to be knocked off. You’re going to go to you’re going to face Drake May, who’s another guy that’s at least in that MVP conversation. In right now you’re going to see Jordan love in Green Bay in week 17. So this defense is going to

Nestor Aparicio  25:05

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Jacobs, if you can get back up run, sure, sure. But I’m

Luke Jones  25:08

specifically talking about quarterbacks. But you know, you’re going to have your chance here to leave no doubt about just how good you are as a defense. I mean, this is a good defense. Now it’s become a good defense. Is it great? That’s where it’s like, okay, let let’s publish.

Nestor Aparicio  25:23

Added a professional safety that allowed their best player to come and be their best player, the middle linebackers playing somewhat up to his salary. You’ve got young players in Starks and Wiggins that are getting on the field making some level of impact, Buchanan as well. And then, and then you add a pass rushers. So your wish was, our wish was, hey, they need help on the back end. They got it. And as I wrote in my column this this week, you know, I mean, you get it in the fall and it’s available in January. I mean, I’m not going to bitch about not having it in the spring. I mean, it’s like, hey, if the Orioles are independent race, and in August, they really have a number one, and deal and their independent race. I’m not going to be down on what they do or don’t do in the next 12 weeks, because in the end, they’re as assembled, an ascending team, by both of our measurements, by all if they’ve won five games in a row, their defense is right,

Luke Jones  26:18

yeah, their defense and their defense is leading the way there. Now the offense being ascending. That’s, you know, that’s, well,

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Nestor Aparicio  26:26

the offense has a Hall of Fame wide receiver, a Hall of Fame running back, Hall of Fame quarterback, let me, let’s like, let’s go through this. And they were one in five A month ago, and now they’re in a position to have primetime lights, division games, big boy ball games, big crowds, cold weather, New England, Green Bay. Here we go. They’re going to be on prime time. They’re going to get flexed in the prime time with the New England game three weeks from now. So, like, they’re, they’re going to have to go pull their pants up, and all these games are going to be like a playoff game. They need to go four and two, really? I mean, like, you know, let’s be sensible. It depends on what kind of four and two. It depends on we’re gonna

Luke Jones  27:05

say against, yeah. What is that four and two, two wins against the Steelers. Then, yeah. I mean, they’ve got it made. Then. I mean, that that scenario is great, but if it’s four and two in this they lose those two to the Steelers. Then, then it’s

Nestor Aparicio  27:19

six and oh, they might be the three seed or the two seat based on, who knows, right?

Luke Jones  27:23

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I mean, I don’t, there’s, there’s a path for them to be the three seed unless, I mean, you’re having to talk about Denver and New England really, really scuffling big time here. Yeah, you’re playing even indie

Nestor Aparicio  27:34

playing for the division, and you’re playing against the Steelers at this point. And that’s okay. I mean, that’s, that’s okay in a down year where everybody was hurt in week three, and you went through a buzzsaw schedule and you sucked, and your defense wasn’t any good, and you didn’t have your pieces together. But you traded for Louie Gilman, and you added Draymond drudge, and emerging players emerge, and your quarterback found some elf and they found the running game at some point. This is that part in the novel where that has to happen,

Luke Jones  28:01

sure, sure. But then, but then you’ll get to the part of if it does, you’ll get to the part of the novel where it’s like, okay, what are you doing in January then? And that’s where we go back to the concerns about the offensive line, the concerns about the health of Lamar Jackson, the concerns about this offense in the red zone and situationally short yardage. Because I’m not throwing out what the standard was at the beginning of the year. I mean, just because you go one in five and then you rebound to make the playoffs, not saying that that’s going to make it a successful season. I mean, if you get bounced

Nestor Aparicio  28:31

Super Bowl or bust about 10 weeks. So

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Luke Jones  28:34

that right? And that’s, that’s where I look at this. And, you know, I’m still kind of trying to gage it through the same lens, because otherwise, so then, what do you what’d you do here? You know, I mean, you started one in five because

Nestor Aparicio  28:45

you fought valiantly to lose to at home to the chiefs on January 10

Luke Jones  28:51

or whatever, which is very much a scenario that you know, as far as hosting the Chiefs or the bill first round, that’s absolutely possible at this point in time. I mean, you kind of, you could probably do the simulations of all the different outcomes, and you’ll find quite a few that would involve something like that. So we’re going to see how it plays out. But the only way he plays out is winning these games, right? Yeah, exactly. I mean, you’re still in that mode. I mean, yes, you’re six and five. Yes, they do have some margin for error. They’re, they’re not truly in playoff mode. Because, yeah, the Bengals are in playoff mode at this point in time, right? I mean, not that I think that they’re winning their last six in a row, but that’s what they have to do to have any shot whatsoever, in any way.

Nestor Aparicio  29:31

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I fear them to some degree, because burrow could just say, Look, I’m not going to go out there and embarrass myself and GIMP around and lose another game, like it feels to me like, hey, we win a game or two or three, this thing changes a little bit. We start kicking the Ravens around, giving me the ball. And that seems like who he is with the cigar smoking, like the whole deal, but like the fact that he’s getting off the plane ready to play. And you. You know, I don’t think he wants to go out there and look foolish on Thanksgiving night. And I think it would have been very easy for him to say, I’m not ready. It’s not good enough there. I’m not going out there this. Roger Dorn, right, I’m not going out there behind this, with this group, right now, Joe, you go get him. No, no, no. I mean, that’s what, that’s where my concern is, is that Joe burrow is elite,

Luke Jones  30:26

for real, yeah. I mean, look again, we don’t know what he’s going to look like. I think there, there’s very legitimate intrigue there. I think if you’re Cincinnati, there’s, there has to be some concern there, not, not necessarily even that he’s going to have this horrible re injury of the toe itself. But you also know that if you can’t move around in the pocket to the degree that you need to, then that leaves you exposed to another injury, right? The idea of, you know, where you get completely crushed in the pocket, or you hurt something else as you’re trying to protect yourself. Who knows? Right? I mean, in the same way we’ve talked about this, this offensive line, knowing that Lamar isn’t a statue back there by any stretch of the imagination, but certainly isn’t normal. Lamar Jackson doing the things that he does with his legs at a level that we’ve never seen any a quarterback do it so and

Nestor Aparicio  31:19

that is interesting, that it’s either on or off for Lamar. You know what? I mean? Like, I guess we never gaged it like that. Like, if he can’t go all the way, he’s no he might as well be, you know, he’s not even Josh Allen. He’s not another quarterback. He’s in a mobile quarterback because he doesn’t have breakaway speed, so therefore he shouldn’t even attempt it, because he can’t. And that’s the probably the headspace of having a speed horse only run a three quarters. There’s no such thing. And that’s that’s probably the incredible frustration for him at this point, that that he can’t, and therefore probably shouldn’t.

Luke Jones  32:01

I don’t know if I agree with that entirely. I mean, I it’s not a pass fail. He’s still more mobile than a lot of

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Nestor Aparicio  32:08

quarterbacks run away from four three linebackers, right?

Luke Jones  32:12

Yeah, but how many four three linebackers are actually in the league? Right? Not. He’s still, he can still outrun some people. That the difference is he’s not able to outrun everybody right now, right? And that’s, there’s a difference. There totally is. And so I don’t want to overstate it at the same time, where is the breaking point here, in terms of, I mean, is he healthy enough to play right now? Sure. Is he healthy enough to thrive in the peak, optimal Lamar Jackson style of play that is so unique. And frankly, when he’s at his best, almost impossible to stop. You know that that’s, I think he pretty clearly isn’t it anywhere close to that. So, you know, yeah, it is tough. And looking at this, and that’s where it does become more magnified, how the offensive line is going to play how they can run the ball with Derrick Henry in a more conventional way, or Keaton Mitchell with a more conventional way. You know, I want to see this passing game get back on track. I mean, this passing game, what do they have right now? Zay flowers, and that’s about it, right? I mean, it’s, it’s messy, it’s really messy. And I think there’s a way for them to get that going in a more consistent way, even acknowledging lamar’s physical limitations right now. But, man, they’ve got to get that timing down. I mean, there are place to be had. I mean, go back and look at that DeAndre Hopkins throw to the end zone. I mean, Hopkins put a great move on. The guy had a step and he’s a weapon, man, Lamar overthrow him. I mean, he’s a weapon, but he’s a weapon in a more limited way right now, I think if you saw DeAndre Hopkins, and look, this isn’t me saying that he should be he shouldn’t be more involved. Because, yeah, I’d like to see him get targeted a few more times, but I think you would find that there are a lot of reps where he’s not open and, you know, he’s older, but at the same time, you go back to once upon a time. Remember, there were conversations that needed to be had with Joe Flacco when it came to Anquan Boldin, where it said, Look, Anquan is always open, even when he’s not open, because he can make 5050,

Nestor Aparicio  34:11

Lamar, don’t like throwing the ball like to me, go back to his responsibility. You’re not open, dude. I’m not going there. I Why would I throw it to you and have a contested catch when Andrews is breaking free. You know what I mean? Like in the way Lamar would process things, I

Luke Jones  34:26

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agree, although I would say there have been plenty of times in his career he’s thrown it to mark Andrews, who wasn’t open and made a catch. So he but that’s he has eight years of history with Mark Andrews, right? Whereas DeAndre Hopkins, it’s year one. So point is they need to find more across the board with their passing game, and we’ve talked a lot about their ability to run the ball and be able to run it consistently. So, you know, we’re going to see how it plays out. This is Bengals team that I I think you’re going to get their best shot right, whatever that is, in 2025 I mean, they’re not, they’re a bad football team. They’ve, they’ve been a bad. Ball team, their defense, defense has nothing to do with Joe burrow, and their defense is awful. So yeah, in a perfect world, you’d see the Ravens hang 40 on them, and you’d feel good about your offense, and Lamar looks a little bit better. You know, moving around maybe a little

Nestor Aparicio  35:14

means finishing drives, kick three or four field goals, and it’s 24 the 16 in the fourth quarter. So, right?

Luke Jones  35:21

So that’s, you know, that’s what you’re looking at. You know, as far as offense finish drives be more efficient in the red zone, we’ve been saying that every week, and we’re going to continue to say that, because that’s how important it is. And defensively you’ve got to, you can’t let Jamar Chase or chase brown wreck the game for you. Because, look, Joe burrow is going to be some limited version of himself, right? I won’t buy for a second that he’s going to be 100% right? You don’t come back from what was deemed to be a three month minimum injury in what’s it been, nine weeks or what or 10 weeks, whatever

Nestor Aparicio  35:53

it’s been. I’m gonna rub them down for deer antler spray. Yeah, right,

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Luke Jones  35:56

right, so you know. But that doesn’t mean he can’t make plays if you don’t get after the quarterback and stop the run and not let tomorrow Chase get over the top, top on you and tackle, you need to tackle, right? I mean, both these teams, I mean, the Bengals have been a poor tackling team this year, and I think that’s probably going to lead to their demise on Thursday night, even if they make some stops here and there, they’re going to miss a couple tackles, and Derek Henry is going to go for 40 at some point in time. Point in time, or Keaton Mitchell is going to take one of the house, or zay flowers will, you know, wiggle out of wiggle free from a tackle and he’s gone, right? Something like that will happen that, in my mind, will probably be the difference in the game, and will allow the ravens to gain full control, you know. Or semi, you know, not, not full maybe, but most, you know, kind of like how the Jets game was, whatever, when they when the Jets went on fourth, yeah. I mean, you know, something like the Bengals will do something that is bungles,

Nestor Aparicio  36:51

right? One letter away. Always, one letter exactly.

Luke Jones  36:53

So, you know, I but Lamar Jackson, how healthy does he look? And we haven’t talked about it a whole lot, but Kyle Hamilton, is he going to be 100% right now, right now? And I’ll believe you that with this final point, because this is probably as close as I get to a hot take as the ravens are presently constructed. And acknowledging Lamar Jackson is not 100% I think Kyle Hamilton might be the most valuable player on this football team right now, when Lamar is 100% and your your your offense is operating in the more Ravens. Lamar Jackson led ravens kind of way. There’s no question, right? I mean, he’s talking about the guy might be the best player on the planet, but right now for what they need, right now in order to win football games, Kyle Hamilton might be a little more valuable than Lamar Jackson even is right now, because if he’s not right on Thursday night, then at Game one, we’re going to see how this goes. Because that that that’s a much bigger question for your defense than knowing just how important he has been.

Nestor Aparicio  37:54

Well, it talks about 14 up at the line of scrimmage and impacting key plays. So many downplays, you know, blowing a play up, creating something that leads to a turnover, leads to a sack, leads to, you know, a big play. Luke Jones is a big play. Thanksgiving is always a big play in the Jones household, you know, so I hope you have a great, great Thanksgiving family, nieces, all that stuff. I am immersed in football all day long, as well as Turkey and some pumpkin pie as well. So we hope everybody pulls that together. My thanks to my friends at GBMC for helping me identify potential colon cancer, stopped, polyp removed. All good. My thanks to GBMC, so I want to continue to give them a shout out and everybody there for helping us out through the holiday Black Friday, ahead and then the Maryland crab cake tour, presented by the Maryland lottery. I’ll have Raven scratch offs to give away. We’re going to be at deep pasquale’s. We are going to be at honeys in halethorpe. They have an Asian menu over there. I’m looking forward to that some interesting takes on some crab cakes. So that’s going to be cool through the holidays. Also, we’re going to get the Costas and Dundalk Gina shock text me back, and if her text can read out loud, I could hear it in her beautiful Dundalk voice. And John Allen is speaking to me now after his big black Friday event in Hagerstown. And we’re all going over to Dundalk the last week of the week before Christmas, about 17th or 18th. I’m working on a date, and we’re going to do a big thing over there. So come on out. We’re going to love Ed Lauer all up, who’s got a new heart, and we’re going to wish him a merry Christmas as well. So big things going on. I’m thankful. He’s thankful. We’re thankful. We’ll be a lot more thankful on Friday morning if the Ravens make it six in a row. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We’re W, N, S, T, AM, 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore positive.