A purple turkey for Thanksgiving leaves plenty of doubt for Ravens

Five turnovers and 14 points of offense will never get it done. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the disaster of Lamar Jackson’s mistakes and the sluggish Ravens offense against Bengals in a disappointing holiday beatdown in Baltimore.

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Ravens’ disappointing performance against the Cincinnati Bengals, highlighting the offense’s struggles. Despite Joe Burrow’s return, the Ravens managed only 14 points and committed five turnovers. Lamar Jackson’s accuracy and decision-making were criticized, with concerns about his health and the offensive line’s performance. The defense also faced issues, particularly on third downs. The conversation emphasized the need for better play-calling and offensive line improvements, noting that the team’s performance has significantly impacted fan morale and expectations for the season.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Determine if a more run-focused approach is needed to support the offense in the short-term.
• [ ] Analyze the game tape and identify specific areas for improvement on the offensive line.
• [ ] Evaluate Lamar Jackson’s mechanics and decision-making to help get him back on track.
• [ ] Review the team’s upcoming schedule and develop a game plan to get the offense back on track.

Ravens’ Offensive Struggles Against Bengals

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the Ravens’ disappointing performance against the Bengals, highlighting the return of Joe Burrow and Ja’Marr Chase.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the Ravens’ offensive struggles, noting that they managed only 14 points against a below-average Bengals defense.
• The conversation touches on Lamar Jackson’s performance, comparing it to his past games and noting his physical appearance on the field.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the offensive line’s issues, particularly Mark Andrews’ performance, and the overall state of the offense.

Lamar Jackson’s Performance and Offensive Line Issues

• Luke Jones critiques Lamar Jackson’s performance, noting his lack of accuracy and the offense’s inability to score points consistently.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the impact of Lamar Jackson’s health on his performance, comparing it to his rookie year.
• The conversation shifts to the offensive line, with Nestor Aparicio highlighting the issues with the guard and tackle play.
• Luke Jones mentions the cumulative impact of injuries on Lamar Jackson and the offensive line, contributing to the team’s struggles.

Defensive Performance and Injuries

• Luke Jones discusses the defensive performance, noting the Bengals’ success on third down and the goal-line stand by the Ravens.
• The conversation touches on the injury to Nate Wiggins and its impact on the defense.
• Luke Jones highlights the pass rush and pressure issues, noting that the defense did not apply enough pressure on Joe Burrow.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the overall state of the defense, including the performance of key players like Marlon Humphrey and Marcus Peters.

Offensive Strategy and Play Calling

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the offensive strategy, including the decision to bench Tyler Huntley and the impact of play-calling.
• Luke Jones suggests a return to a more run-oriented offense, given Lamar Jackson’s current struggles as a passer.
• The conversation touches on the importance of the offensive line in protecting Lamar Jackson and providing a running game.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the need for better play-calling and strategy to improve the offense’s performance.

Impact of Injuries and Offseason Moves

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the impact of injuries on the offense, including Lamar Jackson’s health and the performance of key players like Marquise Brown and Mark Andrews.
• The conversation touches on the offseason moves, including the acquisition of Rashod Bateman and the development of the offensive line.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the need for better health management and injury prevention to improve the offense’s performance.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the importance of addressing the offensive line issues to support Lamar Jackson and the running game.

Future Outlook and Team Performance

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the future outlook for the Ravens, including the upcoming games against the Steelers and other division rivals.
• The conversation touches on the importance of improving the offense to compete for a playoff spot.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the need for better performance from the offensive line and Lamar Jackson to achieve success.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the potential impact of the team’s performance on fan morale and ticket sales.

Jason Garrett’s Analysis and Insights

• Nestor Aparicio praises Jason Garrett’s analysis during the game, noting his insights into Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrow’s performances.
• The conversation touches on Garrett’s background and his experience as a coach and analyst.
• Luke Jones agrees with Nestor Aparicio’s assessment of Garrett’s performance, noting his ability to provide detailed and insightful commentary.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the impact of Garrett’s analysis on their understanding of the game.

Offensive Line and Quarterback Health

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the ongoing issues with the offensive line and the impact on Lamar Jackson’s health.
• The conversation touches on the need for better protection and the importance of the offensive line in supporting the running game.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the cumulative impact of injuries on Lamar Jackson and the offensive line, contributing to the team’s struggles.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the importance of addressing these issues to improve the offense’s performance.

Defensive Performance and Injuries

• Luke Jones discusses the defensive performance, noting the Bengals’ success on third down and the goal-line stand by the Ravens.
• The conversation touches on the injury to Nate Wiggins and its impact on the defense.
• Luke Jones highlights the pass rush and pressure issues, noting that the defense did not apply enough pressure on Joe Burrow.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the overall state of the defense, including the performance of key players like Marlon Humphrey and Marcus Peters.

Offensive Strategy and Play Calling

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the offensive strategy, including the decision to bench Tyler Huntley and the impact of play-calling.
• Luke Jones suggests a return to a more run-oriented offense, given Lamar Jackson’s current struggles as a passer.
• The conversation touches on the importance of the offensive line in protecting Lamar Jackson and providing a running game.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the need for better play-calling and strategy to improve the offense’s performance.

Future Outlook and Team Performance

• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the future outlook for the Ravens, including the upcoming games against the Steelers and other division rivals.
• The conversation touches on the importance of improving the offense to compete for a playoff spot.
• Luke Jones emphasizes the need for better performance from the offensive line and Lamar Jackson to achieve success.
• Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discuss the potential impact of the team’s performance on fan morale and ticket sales.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Ravens offense, Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow, Bengals game, offensive line, turnovers, quarterback performance, defensive issues, playoff chances, injury impact, running game, pass protection, play-calling, team morale, future outlook.

SPEAKERS

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Nestor Aparicio, Speaker 1, Luke Jones

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, Happy Black Friday weekend. Happy post Thanksgiving. I’m not going to pretend that you haven’t eaten your turkey or that you’re not doing what I’m doing, which is eating leftover cookies, because that’s what I’m doing right now. My thanks to the Maryland lottery, as well as our friends at GBMC for putting us out on the road. The Maryland crab cake tour is coming back at you. I have fresh dates two weeks from now. We’re doing three in a row Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. We’re going to be at Costas for the holiday week with Gina shock. I think I’ve corral John Allen to come over. So we’re going to have a rock and roll Christmas over Costas and Dundalk. So come on out. It’s all brought to you by the Maryland lottery. It is, these have been luckier than the Ravens were on Thursday night. Luke Jones joins us now, after they had an old song called, was it short sets, long breaks, big money, I would say bad games. Holiday up all night, and now we got to get up and talk about what really was, you know, I guess greatest fear would be that the Bengals come in with a healthy looking Joe burrow and a Jamar Chase back on the field. And the chase brothers were a little bit too much. And I think also the mistakes, and I’ll let you get at it, because you witnessed it from the Kevin Byrne little press box in the corner there. Yeah.

Luke Jones  01:23

I mean, look, did Joe burrow come back and make some plays and look better than certainly Jake Browning or Joe Flacco had looked the last couple of weeks? Sure. I mean, that wasn’t the story in this football game. The story in this football game was a Ravens offense that has not been trending in a good direction for quite a while. We talked about it a few weeks back. It’s one thing, no shame in having some struggles against the Minnesota Vikings on the road. No shame, despite what we think about the Browns overall, no shame in having some struggles against that defense and Miles Garrett and you know, a guy who’s going to be defensive player of the year, guy looks like he’s going to shatter the single season sack record. So those are a different animal, right? And we’ve talked a lot about lamar’s health. We’ve talked about the fact that Lamar hasn’t played as well in recent weeks, but over a five day span to play how they played against a Jets defense that was below average statistically, you know, a bottom 10 kind of defense in terms of scoring and other efficiency metrics, and to manage 14 Points and commit five turnovers against a defense that just using DBO a but I can give you plenty of more conventional numbers, if you’d Like as well, but a defense that has looked like one of the worst the NFL seen through 12 games over the last 50 years. I mean, DVO a has them tracking, which I think Aaron shots could tell you this definitively, but I think it goes back to looking at 1978 and forward that the Bengals were on track to be the worst defense in the history of tracking DVO way. And they scored 14 Points, committed five turnovers. Yeah, they moved the ball some at times, and certainly, you know the likely play and and there were certain ways you could try to spin a positive out of it, but my goodness. I mean, that’s, that’s as below the bar as it gets. I mean, this offense is a mess. This offense feels very broken at this point in time. And as much as we’ve talked about the offensive line, Mark Jackson was horrible on Thursday night, I saw a few people you know, whether talking to others in the press box or seeing it on social media. And look, it’s not about piling on, but just trying to contextualize that performance and thinking, when does Lamar look that bad? I saw some people mentioned that his rookie year, the playoff game, right? I mean, where he committed turnovers against the chargers and just looked overwhelmed. It wasn’t quite that. But, man, that was, was really bad. And I think the thing that was frustrating about it, for me, beyond the level of of what you thought the Bengals defense was, is I actually thought Lamar looked better physically when he took off. He looked better than he did against the Jets and the browns, like

Nestor Aparicio  04:17

he could run away a little bit. Look, you, you, you challenge me. We got together on Wednesday. We did a pre, pre game piece. You’re like, he could still run away from a lot of guys. And I felt like no defensive lineman was going to catch him last night.

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Luke Jones  04:30

Right, right? I mean, he looked better, at least. I’m not saying he looked 100% but man, he just he didn’t see the field.

Nestor Aparicio  04:36

His accuracy was way off from my perspective. He He didn’t look like he didn’t belong out there. He didn’t look like he was John Wayne out there limping, you know at all.

Luke Jones  04:45

Yeah, so, so with that in mind, that should equate to them being way better, and we didn’t see that. So the silver lining is that the season’s not over, and everything is still sitting. Right there for them. But I think on the heels of this five game winning streak, even with you and I saying over and over and over that the eyeball test wasn’t matching, oh, this team’s firing on all cylinders, and they’re humming, and they’ve won five in a row and and all that, I think there was still this perception, because of how we feel about Pittsburgh and the rest of the AFC north. I think there was very much a perception that this is the Ravens division after Thursday night. All bets are off. I mean, when you can’t score points and do what you need to do offensively against the Cincinnati Bengals, what is that going to mean again

Nestor Aparicio  05:36

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at home? Right? Exactly, operate at home

Luke Jones  05:38

four days after the same issues with the Jets, right? I mean, they didn’t turn the ball over against the Jets. That was the only difference, right? But, man, that was really, really disconcerting to see them play like that. And, you know, I mean, the defense, think about, you know, the defense, obviously, they wilted on third down big time in the second half. You know that third quarter, mean, burrow and the Bengals just converted third down after third down. But that was only after a first half where they had to do some extraordinary heavy lifting inside the red zone to hold the Bengals to field goals on short fields. I mean, my goodness, they gave them the ball at the two yard line, and they had a goal line stand, right? I mean, so you know, my biggest takeaway from the defense one Nate Wiggins got hurt it sound. The initial, initial indication from John Harbaugh was that it’s not like a multi week season ending kind of injury or anything like that, so but that we know what kind of player he is. And my big takeaway from the defensive side was the pass rush and the pressure that seemed to be ratcheted up a little bit here the last few weeks, that kind of went away for the most part. And that was that was disappointing, just knowing that you wanted to make Joe burrow as as uncomfortable as possible, to test out that surgically repaired toe and and all that. But you know, again, the story is the offense, and the story is a two time MVP quarterback just not looking anything close to that. And you know, now multiple weeks of that. I mean, it’s just three straight games Nestor, where Lamar has not thrown for a touchdown or run for a touchdown. And I get it. I mean, the zay flowers offensive pass interference call. You know, plenty of people question that. Certainly likely. I mean, that should have been a touchdown for Lamar like so, but it’s more just an indicator of where this offense is right now. Because you know how many games Lamar had in his career, not counting the first half of his rookie year, but number of games he’d had in his career with without a touchdown pass or a touchdown run, less than seven, yeah, prior to these last three. And two of those were the two games he let the Cleveland game in 21 when he got hurt and missed the rest of the year, and then the Denver game The following year, when he got hurt and missed the rest of the year. So you’re talking about five career starts he had where he started and finished and and didn’t have a touch less than one a year. And he’s had three in a row, three in a row and three in a row, two of those being against the Jets and the Bengals.

Nestor Aparicio  08:07

So let’s talk about the offense for a minute. In a couple of ways, first things, mistakes, just in a general sense, last year, it was penalties, right? Like Orlando, brown still stinks. I want to say that out loud, even if they won, even if he crowded his ass in to get some Turkey last night. But the offensive line is a problem, right? And then there’s the shuttle part of well, you know, we’re gonna let file lay play, but we’re gonna bench the other guy for a series, and we’re gonna have Mike tarico introduce the new guy, and then we bring the old guy in. And then, in the end, none of them are plus players right now, and that includes linderbaum, who, you know, I thought was headed to the Hall of Matt Burke, you know, for a while, right? Or at least a guy that we were going to say we’ve married the center and the quarterback. I’m not saying that’s not over. I’m saying the guard play and the tackle play and the fact that they can’t run the ball and the fact that Lamar is not healthy has probably not helped him. Probably hasn’t helped rose and garden. It probably it probably hasn’t helped the head of zay flowers, or Rashad Bateman, who was gimpy, getting out there, or even Derek, Henry and Hopkins, who are here to win a championship, there are they’re already got $100 million in the bank. Their bodies have heard they played on lousy team after lousy team after lousy team, and they’re here to win. And now you’re six and six, and you and I are here on Black Friday questioning whether what they’re going to look like against the Steelers next week, what they’re going to look like against Cincinnati again, two weeks from now, where New England’s going to put them, where Green Bay’s going to be, and whether they really are the best team in the division or not. They weren’t on Thursday night at home, they weren’t. They were not the best team in the division. They couldn’t get out of their own way. But the. Stakes, because I keep saying to myself, all right, if I’m a purple birded optimist today, and I’m a blame the referees guy, and I’m a fire hardball guy and I’m a racist that doesn’t like Lamar, and whatever I am that I’m angry at the team, or I want to throw bricks at them, or cancel my PSLs, or whatever it is, whatever that that side of it would be, then there’s the other side of Well, hey, that wasn’t really a penalty on flowers. That was a hell of a catch. It was a touchdown. It should have been right. So you could go back through the referee calls, the bad calls, and say they did things, but Lamar getting stripped at the two yard line, and the Bengals didn’t piss a drop. Lamar got stripped it to two yard line, and the Bengals didn’t get a point out of it. So I look at some of the mistakes they made. It could have been a lot worse than getting their ass kicked by three touchdowns. It could have been worse. But I can also play the optimist and say, All right, what’s going right about this? The thing that’s not right, Lamar is not throwing the ball accurately. And by the way, I know you didn’t listen to the game because you were at the game. You’re one of the lucky ones to chat. Steel lets in under the under the hood. I’m sitting at home with my cat watching the game on TV. Jason Garrett was really, really good, not a good color analyst from a pacing standpoint, because he doesn’t do it. It’s not what he does. But man, is he smart. And I got to hear the name Brill Garrett for the first time in 18 years. Brill Garrett, who was looking for a home in Ruxton at one point. I mean, Garrett would have been the coach of this team if he wanted to have been, which is, and now he’s in the booth on Thanksgiving, and I’m having doo doo doo doo doo doo. You know, I’m having like Jason Garrett, he he’s too complimentary to be, you know, he’s too nice, he is, but he’s also really, really smart, like, and I had never listened to him for three and a half hours call a football game like that. It was amazing when he talked about Lamar and Joe burrow and patting the ball and taking care of the ball, and him being a quarterback and a backup quarterback his whole life to one of the greatest quarterbacks ever, as well as his best friend and Troy drakeman. And then he ran a team with Tony Romo and, like all, like, teaching quarterback mechanics. He was a clinic all night long on that stuff. He really was, and let’s be honest, the quarterback’s 94% of the game right, like, literally on both sides. And so when he understands that part of the game and understands scheme and understands offense and understands, hey, my offensive linemen are tired. I mean, he had observations, do? They should give him a gig. He was really, really good, man.

Luke Jones  12:43

Well, I mean, I have nothing to add to that, because I haven’t had a chance to watch the telecast. I’ll watch it over the weekend.

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Nestor Aparicio  12:50

Certainly, you’ll learn a lot. Text me when you’re watching it and tell me that you’re that you didn’t think he was really insightful and weirdly good. Weirdly, it’s it is

Luke Jones  12:59

funny that you mentioned that because, generally speaking, as far as him on football Night in America, I generally find him not to be very good in that, no, be toasty. It’s terrible. Yes, I agree. When you’re regardless of the mechanics of whether you’re John Madden, right, of meaning like you’re engaging and colorful and entertaining and used to be the first couple years, right, right? I was just gonna say, right. I mean, until screw him up. Who? Greg old Greg Olson’s great, right? I mean, he’s, I think he’s,

Nestor Aparicio  13:25

I don’t hear him call games as much. I hear a lot of Brady. For some reason

Luke Jones  13:29

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he should have been. Brady replaced him, right, as the number one guy. But, and my point, when you are calling a game, it is, it’s long form in the same way that, like what I write at Baltimore positive.com might be 800 900 1000 words, whereas you and I could sit here and go back and forth and 30 minutes, 40 minutes, whatever it ends up being, you know, multiple segments and, you know, so it’s just long form. You can dig into it a little bit more. But I want to go back to, you know, just the state of the offense. And I think what’s so concerning about this. I mean, look, the non starter here, like Lamar, has to be better, right? If he’s not better than they’re not even going to make the playoffs, because you’ve got five challenging enough games where you can’t continue to expect to win games if you’re going to play like that. And look, they turned it over five times and to their, you know, in the in the defense of the offense, even with them having scuffled, generally speaking, oh, for weeks now, that hasn’t been something they’ve done a ton of, right? I mean, last week they took care of the ball in Minnesota, they took care of the ball Cleveland, they did not take care of the ball. And we saw how that game was. But so, so assuming you can do that, assuming Lamar can get, get himself back on track to something, you know, but not even talking about the MVP level, just like the typical, let’s say, like regular Lamar. But I do go back to the offensive line, where you see all these issues with. This offense. And, I mean, there were plays to be made, right? I mean, they did make plays. I mean, the Isaiah likely before he fumbles at the at the six inch line. I mean, that was a great play, right? Lamar had guys that were open at times, and he misfired, you know, there, there were, you know, not a ton of drops, but you could find that. I mean, Devon says Walker stopped running on, you know, what could have been a big play. I mean, like, there were times where Lamar had someone wide open and just didn’t throw to him and tried to throw to someone else, right? So all of that. And, you know, I know a lot of people talked they should have run the ball more on Thursday night. And look, I’m not going to disagree with that, but at the same time, I’m also not going to sit here and be disingenuous and not say that this team hasn’t had major issues running the ball at times this year as well, right? I mean, I know statistically, it looks like a, you know, a top five running game and all that, but we know down to down, drive to drive, quarter to quarter, game to game, this off, this running game hasn’t been nearly as consistent as it needs to be, but I do think for where they are right now, I wonder if you just need to swallow some pride, collectively and say, for the time being, we might need to get back to a 2018 2019 kind of mindset. I mean, even if the plays are there, like our quarterbacks just off right now, and we don’t know how much of it’s physical, how much of it’s mental,

Nestor Aparicio  16:25

but I don’t know that you want him running 14 times. Okay,

Luke Jones  16:28

but let me rephrase that a little bit. Sorry. I guess just the mindset of the running game really needs to drive this more. And maybe it’s okay you’re running read option. Lamar is going to give it a little bit more than he would have in 2019 because of what you just said, right? I mean, obviously, but I guess my point is, I don’t right the last couple years with the way that he has improved free snap and in the pocket and scrambling and still looking downfield to throw and not just taking off and running like he might have, you know, was more apt to do his first few years in the league. For the first time in a really long time, I’d say I don’t think it’s a great idea. If your idea going into the game is that Lamar is going to throw it 35 or 40 times, because he’s just not playing like that right now. And that’s not to say he won’t in the future, and that’s not to say he won’t get back on track in the next week or two. I mean, boy, they’d love for him to get back on track this coming Sunday, because it’s a really big game. But I think just with where they are as an offense, and even the offensive line, with past protection and understanding, you’re going to be going up against the Steelers front, right? I mean, New England doesn’t have a great defense statistically speaking. But you know, when you go to Green Bay, you know Michael Parsons going to be blooming, right? So, but I just, you know, they the runs got to be a bigger, way bigger focus. And it’s not like it hasn’t been at all, right? And like I said, they’ve had their issues there. But I think what’s just so concerning for me, when you look at the offense from the 30,000 foot perspective, I don’t expect them to turn the ball over five times again. I mean, if that becomes who you are. I mean, like no one wins when you turn it over five times a game. But where I am concerned, as far as the warts that we’re seeing here, is, are you going to get this offensive line playing well enough to try to tighten up and fix some of these issues that you’re having now across the board? And that’s where, that’s where it’s so concerning, I mean that, and you made the point

Nestor Aparicio  18:35

as much as we’ve talked about the O line since, I mean, going back to the last couple years, right? And even last year, but that’s been such a big concern. Lamar’s health has been a big concern here recently. I think there’s a cumulative impact here, right? And I think we’re seeing that now with how Lamar is playing and how he’s functioning from the pocket, and whether the protection is not there or the protection is there, and he’s not trusting it, whether guys are open downfield or guys are open or aren’t open downfield, or they are open, and he’s just missing them or not seeing that, right? I mean, it’s, it’s just they’re springing elite, not throwing the ball well. I mean, he’s not throwing the ball. Well, that’s not really, I don’t know if it’s mechanics and and Garrett spoke to that a little bit, and not seeing the ball well, or not feeling the pressure, or having the clock inside of his head back in the pocket, because he’s not a pocket quarterback. He’s not naturally a pocket quarterback. He played that position for 15 years a completely different way, and the last three or four years, they tried to turn him into that and make him that, and have him pat the ball and have him stand still and not have him just take off, which it took him years to coach that out of him, and I don’t, and that’s going to be to his benefit over the next five, seven years, when he’s a 33 year old quarterback, or a 35 year old quarterback, if he gets to that point, but he may never get the wheels back. Because we all don’t 29 is not 22 anymore, so he might not get the wheels back to be that Dynamo. Patrick mahomes doesn’t have that. I mean, a lot of the guys, Steve McNair didn’t have that by the time he got here, and he still won, you know, I mean, Steve Young didn’t have that at the guys that were running quarterbacks at 23 when they’re 30, they’re just Cam Newton was out of the game, right? I mean, like done. So thinking about Lamar as eternally 23 and eternally healthy, we have to think about him as being a real quarterback now and a $50 million quarterback, that’s a pocket quarterback, not the guy he was four years ago, where he’s gonna run for 1000 yards, because you can’t afford that. You just can’t he’s gonna get hurt all the stuff I said eight years ago and him playing her all year long. I don’t know. I don’t want to see Snoop Huntley. I don’t want to see Joe Flacco be our backup quarterback, you know, but the hurt quarterback through the season and trying to think you’re going to get him healthy, because they got 10 days off, and it’s going to get better when it’s already not good. I mean, I start with the offensive line. I’m not here to persecute Lamar, who should be a three time MVP. The offensive line still kind

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Luke Jones  21:19

of the beginning of all this, right? I hear what you’re saying, and it’s not as though, first of all, we’ve talked a lot about the fact that he’s banged up, and there’s not going to, I don’t have this assumption that that’s going to be who he is the rest of his career, right? Guys get hurt. We’ve seen great, great quarterbacks over the years have injury plagued years and not look as good, and then they bounce back. And yeah, I mean, and look, we talked about this when Lamar was 23 years old. We talked about this three years ago. We talked about this two years ago. We talked about this last year, right? There was always going to be an evolution for Lamar in the same way that there is for Josh Allen, in the same way there is for many of the other quarterbacks you talked about, right? And so, and, yeah, okay, he’s not going to be the electrifying, unbelievable athlete at the quarterback position that he was at 22 or 23 as he gets older. But that also doesn’t mean that he just transforms into, can’t move whatsoever, 40 year old Joe Flacco overnight, right? I mean, it’s, it’s a dial. I’ve talked about that a lot, and early in his career, the guy that I kind of pointed to at the time, even though now it kind of rings hollow, because he’s a backup and on his way out of the league. At this point, when Lamar was doing what he did in 2018 1920, at the time, I said, you know, as he gets older, you want to see him become more like a Russell Wilson kind of quarterback who wasn’t running for 1000 yards or anything like that, but could still run plenty and still did what he needed to do, and improved leaps and bounds as a passer. And Lamar has done largely done that, right? I mean, he didn’t run for 1000 yards last year, but he threw for over 4000 and he had over 40 touchdown passes and was truly that next level dual threat quarterback that everyone was kind of waiting for him to become, statistically, I suppose. But this year, when you have a lesser offensive line and you have a quarterback who look part of this was also we talked about it at the time. No disrespect to Josh Allen. Lamar was MVP in my mind last year. I’ll continue to say that, right? I mean, he in the regular season, he was the best quarterback on the planet, for my money, and that doesn’t mean I think Josh Allen stinks or I’m disrespecting him. It’s just my opinion on it. I have a pfwa vote, and the pfwa voted Lamar MVP last year.

Speaker 1  23:40

But point is, okay, so you have our vote sure

Luke Jones  23:44

for the PF for the pfwa. I mean, you know, the AP is the one that’s recognized by the League, because they, they do business with them, right? And that’s the NFL honors and all that anyway. So No, he wasn’t going to have another year where he threw, what, 41 touchdowns and had four interceptions, right? I mean, that even Tom Brady didn’t have didn’t play like it was 2007 every single year of his career, right? I mean, that’s we understand that. But when you have an O line that is really problematic at this point in time, and you have a quarterback who got banged up and hurt and back in what week four and came back. What’s ironic about it is the best he’s looked since returning was the second half of that Miami game, which was his first game back. I mean, he’s, I don’t want to say it’s a straight line down since then, but it’s been close to that, like, if you kind of looked at the trend line and just drew a drew an oval or a circle around it, it would be trending pretty sharply downward, right?

Nestor Aparicio  24:46

8

So I did think of something I want to say this, because we’re going to talk two hours about the game. But when I saw burrow out there in the second quarter, slinging it around a little bit, and looking like he was coming back to life and looking like he could go left, he could go right, I thought to myself. He’s the only guy on the field didn’t get his ass kicked three days ago. And I thought to myself, there’s that part of it. Yeah, I really did. I thought that as a game went on in third and fourth quarter, I’m like, he’s the only guy out here. He’s playing straight ball. All the rest of these guys played three days ago, and they’re tired as hell, and they’ve all been in a car crash. Like I thought there was a benefit to that for him, that I felt like Lamar just looked like he was cold and tired and under siege to some degree,

Luke Jones  25:32

maybe, I mean, but at the same time, like I said, I thought he looked better moving around than he did last Sunday. I mean, even

Nestor Aparicio  25:38

like, a difference of four days, like, off in the first quarter, I would agree with you, he looked okay, like, yeah, like I did.

Luke Jones  25:45

The Jets game felt more physical, right? And he didn’t throw the ball well in the Jets game. He didn’t throw well in the Cleveland game, but those two games, compared to Thursday night, that felt way more like, man, he’s really he’s not there physically the way he needs to be. Thursday night felt more and I’m not saying he was 100% and as I said, I think there’s a cumulative impact here to everything that’s gone on from the beginning of the season till now, including

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Nestor Aparicio  26:11

how sorry is today after playing two games in four days.

Luke Jones  26:14

There’s that, but I, but I also I, and I think this, this isn’t just the Lamar thing. I think that’s in the the entire offense at this point, there’s absolutely a between the years element to this, because of how this offense has trended now for a while. And I just for me, I thought his performance and the offense collectively was less about his physical injuries, limitations, whatever you want to call them, whatever, whatever he’s been dealing with, right? I mean, hamstring, knee, ankle, toe,

Nestor Aparicio  26:46

whatever sound like a kid song that you’d sing to your knees, yeah? It’s like ankles game of operations, right? Yeah, exactly, exactly so.

Luke Jones  26:53

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But that just that felt different on Thanksgiving night again. Look, he fumbled twice. He threw an interception on another, another batted pass. And I do want to point this part out. And you alluded to this, their offense was bad and also unlucky at some spots, so on, on Thursday night as well. I mean, that’s a bad combination. You know, when it just ball goes up right into their hands, like on a play where, like, it was there, if, you know, if they, if they have it blocked up, you know, the guy was open on that play. So, I mean, it’s just just so much wrong with this offense right now. And I’m even less moved by the idea that, okay, you can the silver lining is that they move the ball. They were in position to score more, like you said, that they could have scored way more points. I mean, if you know, if Isaiah likely holds on to the football if zay flowers isn’t dinged for an offensive pass interference that wasn’t blatant, even if you know, even if you’re not going to sit here and say it was a terrible call, but at the same time, that’s where I look at this and say, maybe I’d be a little more moved by that if they, if they had 470 yards of offense or 500 yards of offense, knowing how horrendous this Bengals defense has been. But it’s not like they were the greatest show on earth moving up and down the field either, right? I mean, it’s just frustrating. I mean, it really is like

Nestor Aparicio  28:14

I said Derek Henry’s fat and old either, because when he gets in space, he rolls. I mean, yeah. I mean, I don’t know that he’s breaking tackles the way he did 10 years ago at Alabama, but even last year, right? I mean, like, Look,

Luke Jones  28:27

if you want my honest opinion, I don’t think Derek Henry’s been as good as he was last year. Now that said, that is not Luke Jones saying he’s washed up or anything like that. That’s saying it’s a little bit Derek Henry in the same way when we talk about the offensive line or the play calling or what this guy’s doing, I mean Isaiah, likely, we haven’t talked about him a whole lot. This has been an absolute bust of a contract year for him. Think about the money that he’s cost himself to this point this season. Now, it’s not to say the Ravens won’t resign him or he won’t get a good deal wherever he winds up, right? But there, I think he had in his mind going into this season, and I think the foot injury and training camp was a huge part of this. Obviously, he thought he was gonna be a 60, and I think he thought he was gonna be a top five, top six tight end, you know, in terms of money, in terms of his contract, which, you know, I’m not saying he’s not going to get signed, and he’s not going to be have interest, and I think the Ravens still want him back, all things being equal, but boy, what a disappointing season. And here he ends up early in this game. It’s you’re seeing that connection kind of come alive.

Nestor Aparicio  29:34

I ask you a question there six and six we and maybe we’ll do this in the next segment. We’ll take a break. But who is having a good season? I just like that offense, anywhere on the team, on the Kyle Hamilton’s

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Luke Jones  29:47

having a great year. Nate Wiggins is having a really good year.

Nestor Aparicio  29:50

Was at least until

Luke Jones  29:54

the early indication is that he’s not like this isn’t a season ending thing.

Nestor Aparicio  29:58

8

We’ll see beating up on the offense. What’s. But, but to answer your, to

Luke Jones  30:01

answer your question about the offense, I don’t know, but, because, like Tyler, Linder bomb, doesn’t stink by any stretch of the imagination. But is he? Has he been peak Linder bomb? I think it’s because of the two guys flanking him. Ronnie Stanley has been more banged up. Rosengarten has been disappointing. I thought he’d be better, you know? I mean, look at the other than zay flowers, who, by the way, has a has a ball security issue at this point. I mean, he’s multiple fumbles from a wide receiver in a season. No bueno. I mean, that that can’t help. He runs out in the open. He’s a small guy, so that’s well, and he also, they’re all coming. He tries to go, as much as you love his lateral EAST, WEST quickness, that gets him in trouble at times as well. There’s no question about that. But to answer your question, on offense, especially, boy, it’s kind of the shrug man emoji at this point in time, for those who aren’t watching us on YouTube because you asked the question, I don’t really know, Nestor. I mean, I don’t when you’re talking about who’s, who’s having a good year on this offense right now, it’s, you know, relative to the rest of the league, sure, there are guys having good years, but relative to last year and expectations going into 2025, man, that’s, it’s not an impressive list, especially on the offensive side of the football.

Nestor Aparicio  31:19

He’s Luke Jones. He is a Baltimore Luke out on the interwebs. My thanks to our partners and sponsors, a curio wellness and foreign daughter, for bringing us through the holiday. Here it is a Black Friday weekend. We have a sale on sports radio here. We’re giving away free Maryland lottery scratch offs at the Maryland crab cake tour. We’re gonna be picking that back up. We’re going to be at honeys in halethorpe. We’re going to be at faidley’s downtown. We’re going to be at Costas in Dundalk, and we’re also going to be back at Cocos in lauraville, all during the holidays. All brought to you by the Maryland lottery, in conjunction with our friends at GBMC. Appreciate all the emails and all of the reaches. So many people have reached me about the colonoscopy thing and precancerous polyp that was removed from me last week by the GBMC team. I am grateful I am alive. I’m planning on using my time wisely here during the holiday season. Luke and I are going to talk some defense. We’re going to talk some special teams. We talk about taking 10 days off. We’re going to talk about sitting around watching football all weekend, and we’re going to continue to talk turkey. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We’re W, N, S, T, am 15, 70,000 Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore positive. You.