The times have changed. We can all acknowledge that while not lowering the bar of expectations of millionaire athletes – in victory or defeat – or the billionaire owners who used to address the fans via the local media this time of year. Luke Jones and Nestor have a longer conversation about Mark Andrews and the Ravens’ accountability in defeat a week after the Buffalo loss as well as a full look ahead to what happens next in Owings Mills in an always-busy offseason for Eric DeCosta and the scouting staff.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Ravens’ recent loss to the Buffalo Bills and their broader playoff performance. Nestor criticized Mark Andrews for not speaking to the media post-game, emphasizing the importance of accountability. Luke noted the Ravens’ roster strengths and weaknesses, including the need for an edge rusher and safety. They debated the Ravens’ chances of winning next year, with Luke optimistic about their potential. Both acknowledged the challenges of media access and the evolving role of social media in sports. They also reflected on the broader implications of media relations and fan expectations in professional sports.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Ravens accountability, Mark Andrews, Buffalo loss, Super Bowl expectations, media relations, Lamar Jackson, playoff performance, fan expectations, team roster, offseason plans, coaching criticism, player accountability, social media impact, media access, future outlook
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Speaker 1, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W N, S T am 1570 task, Baltimore, Baltimore, possible. We’re hoping you’re setting a spot out on your dial. We have a bunch of exciting things going on. Our tech service is back better than ever. Um, I’ve got somebody beating on me trying to get the morning newspaper back going again. Um, so that might even be happening, but I know one thing, it’s definitely happening, where week out on a cup of soup or bowl begins on Monday at Costas, which is why I’m wearing my Costa shirt. I was gonna wear my cocoa shirt, but Coco’s just shot this week, so don’t go over to Coco’s this week. They’re shut down this week. They like just, they’re smart. They just go someplace warm. It’s not warm here, I will be at State Fair later on in the week, we’ll be there on Thursday, will be a Cooper’s pub on Friday, and there will be a fade Lee’s in Lexington market on Tuesday, Cocos on Wednesday. All of it’s up at Baltimore positive. Luke is here. We’re going to get to baseball. We’re going to get to the Super Bowl, the real Super Bowl, the mahomes bowl, the Kelsey bowl, the Taylor Swift bowl, whatever it’s going to be. And I told my New Orleans drunken super stories from the 1990s already, but this ravens off season and the exhale that you as a reporter that’s embedded out there me as a reporter who’s been on my couch watching them play and writing nasty notes to mark Andrews, I also had the kids on from Buffalo last week. Those kids were just, I want to talk more about that. Remind me to talk more about that. Luke, at the end of this the bills mafia kids, now that they’ve been eliminated, because it just broke my heart this morning, because I realized, like I thought, they were going to win the Super Bowl, I was going to make a big stink and have them on. Stink and have them on two weeks from now. I’m going to have them on anyway, because they’re still raising money for Mark Andrews, but the Ravens aftermath. You and I didn’t go to Buffalo. We went K Fabe on that last week about like you not being there to clean out the lockers. We never have any idea how whether they’re going to win or lose. I have joked all weekend right this minute, you and I would have been on a plane leaving Kansas City. We had a 5:50am flight on Monday morning leaving Kansas City, so that planes in the air right now, like we would have been there, had things worked out differently on a football field. So we were prepared for New Orleans, Kansas City, some of the ravens, and it is in the aftermath of the chaos of getting eliminated. And I thought about this, and I tweeted about this, and blue sky about this. And on Sunday, when the commanders were losing, to say, I saw my timeline the Flacco to polymalu pick. And I’m going to bring that up with Joe, because Joe, Joseph Vincent Flacco coming on the show this week. He threw that pic to Paula malo. He just didn’t get enough air under the ball. I hadn’t seen that play in 15 years, but I’ve seen it showed up in my timeline, so I watched it a couple of times knowing he was coming on the show. And then I think about losing the lead to Pittsburgh a couple years later. I think about the kick and condiff, which I wrote at length about, and Luke, I didn’t even realize when I wrote that piece to mark Andrews that 35,000 people have read this week. Thank you. I appreciate everyone reading my writing, and the highest compliment anybody could pay me is when they write to me and say, you know, fu for writing that about Mark Andrews, and I hated you, and I didn’t want to read it, and then I read it, you changed my mind. I’m like, Oh, I made you think my job, but you’ve had a week. You went to the press conference. We didn’t even do a segment off of the press conference. Those press conferences don’t get me. I mean, I have a whole total run on all of that’s going on with their media relations and their communications, and how they communicate, and why they communicate that way, and how it’s not believable in a lot of ways, and in other ways, I feel for them, because it is overwhelming when you lose like that and but it’s been a couple of days. What’s on your mind after watching football all weekend, man. Well,
Luke Jones 04:01
I mean, after watching all weekend, the question comes to mind, is it better that Kansas City just won again, and buffalo is still in the same camp as the ravens and and the Bengals and the Bengals, you know? I mean, I get it, the Bengals got there, but they didn’t win one. So, I mean, getting to the Super Bowl is not the goal. Winning the Super Bowl is the goal. And I look at that compared to add Josh Allen in the bills one on Sunday night and they’re going to the Super Bowl. It stinks either way, right? I mean, you can try to rationalize things as much as you want. And I think as I wrote a Baltimore positive.com I think it was Wednesday or Thursday last week. I can’t remember which day all of it runs together? Because, to your point, you’re gearing up for Buffalo and you’re gearing up for Kansas City, you’re gearing up for New Orleans a couple weeks later, and then it just ends so abruptly, right? I mean, it’s always so abrupt. We talked about this a little bit with the Orioles playing a best of three and losing twice in what 26 hours, or whatever it was. Was to the Royals, and then it’s just over. But you know, when you have a team with championship aspirations and you lose in the fashion that they lost, it’s so abrupt. But as I wrote, I think the ravens, I mean where they stand right now, it’s both a blessing and a curse, because I look at their football team and look, we’ll get into the offensive line, the annual edge rusher question, what’s going to happen in terms of adding another safety, and what that means for Kyle Hamilton, like they have roster, roster, I don’t know if concerns as much as just roster points of interest, you know, areas of interest that they need to address, just like any team does, including Kansas City and Philadelphia. But right now, as you and I are sitting here in the final week of January, Nestor, I ask you a simple question, are the Ravens going to be back in the playoffs next year? And you’re going to say yes, assuming they’re healthy, assuming number eight is healthy, yes, they have a chance every year, and that’s a blessing. On the flip side, however, and this is where you get into it. And buffalo is asking the same exact questions right now, what’s it going to take to get over the hump? What’s it going to take to get past Kansas City, and this year, specifically, the Orioles or the ravens, of course, didn’t get get past the bills. So throw that in there if you want. But we know the big picture is getting past the chiefs. And again, you’re asking, what is it going to take? I don’t think it’s this magic solution in terms of their roster building. I think it’s just a matter of maturation. And got to do it. You’ve got to get through you’ve got to play smart football. You can’t turn the ball over, you can’t have big penalties. You just have to, you have to do it. And there’s a curse element to that, because you ask yourself, what is it going to take? Lamar is going to be a three time MVP in what, a week and a half he’s going to be an NFL honors and barring something strange, he’s going to be MVP again. And this team had nine Pro Bowl selections originally, and then Kyle van Noy and Ronnie Stanley are joining them, right? I mean, they’ve got 11 players that have been recognized, even, you know, original selection or injury replacement. You just go down the list and everything on paper looks like it should be, hey, this is a Super Bowl team. Hey, this is a championship caliber team. And yet they haven’t broken through. So there is a little bit of fighting the urge, resisting the urge, of throwing your hands up and saying, what is it going to take now, Eric Acosta and John Harbaugh said what you would expect them to say at the the state of the Ravens last week. And you know, there wasn’t anything overly interesting to me, that, to take away from that, I mean, get into some specifics, you know, Ronnie Stanley, or some specific players here or there that they talked about, but, you know, there’s just, there’s very much a sense of, Wow, you got to go through this entire 12 month process again, and you’re going to be good next year, barring something Strange. I’m picking you to win the division. You know, I expect, you know you’re gonna be drafting late, but I have the confidence that they’ll come away with a good football player. Now, how good and how impactful in year one and year two is always the question with these but you just look at it and you say, what’s it gonna take to get past, get over the hump? I mean it, and that’s what’s frustrating. There are 2930 other teams in the league right now that would kind of laugh at the Ravens problems, right? I mean, when you talk about their quarterback, their roster, all of that, but it doesn’t make you feel any better in the moment when you’re walking off the field in Buffalo and you’re cleaning out your lockers and you’re you’re sitting there watching the chiefs and the bills in the title game, and in a couple weeks, you’re gonna be watching the chiefs in the Super Bowl again. So it’s a blessing and a curse, because you’re right there every year. That’s the blessing part of this, and you’re gonna continue to be with a 28 year old quarterback who’s who had the best season of his career this past year. But what’s it going to take to get over the hump? And you know that answer feels simplistic, but it’s not simplistic, because you haven’t done it, so I don’t know. It’s just, it’s a long off season, it’s a long spring, it’s a long training camp, it’s a long preseason, it’s a long regular season to get back to, say, the divisional round, and then it’s like, all right, what are you going to do this time around? And there is a heck of a grind to that, both physically and mentally.
Nestor Aparicio 09:30
You know, I would say for me, I don’t want to be hard on them in the way that perhaps I was too hard on Mark Andrews and I wasn’t hard at all, by the way. I mean, accountability is hard. We all have it. I have it with the FCC and with you as an employee and people that sponsors. I mean, we’re all responsible to somebody, and we’re all accountable, especially for a guy with a microphone that’s been front facing to the community as a public figure for 33 years. You know, there’s a time and place to step. Side and say, I’m going to put my legal team out in front of it. I’ve had to do that. There’s times in places where you have to shut up and just, you know, in matters of employment, I get all of that. But then there’s the level of expectation. And I went through this with Leonard Raskin, and those really good Leonard and I always go a little bit meander into different places with our conversations, then you and I, on the field, off the field, to the stands, to what levels of expectations are in business, in just being and what a 20 year old expects from an athlete versus a 50 year old would expect from an athlete in regard to accountability. But man, har ball is the king of this because he’s out there and he’s quoting scripture, and he’s raw Ryan, and he’s we’re the best, we’re the most accountable. Everybody’s great. My guys are like all of this. I go back to all of this, what? And then there’s the fans and the barstool idiots with death threats and stupid stuff between the lines for what is fair and what is accountable, and what these men making 1520, $50 million a year. And I’ve watched all of this over 30 years in the in the locker room, back when they weren’t making that kind of money and and watching the the society move toward football in a way where every time I have a Lee Steinberg is on, you know, 94 the 100 most watched television shows. You know, it is mash. It is 60 minutes. It’s the thing that society cares the most about, black, white, red, blue, Democrat, Republican. It’s it gambling is now like all of this, and we talk about that, whether the ball, you know, should be chipped or not, on gambling parts, but the Ravens responsibilities in all of this, and where it began 30 years ago, and where there would be a press conference this week where the owner would come out, sullen, phased, and say, Look, I’m trying. I like that. I like when the owner’s trying. I like when the owner says, we did this in the black wing. Because of that, we took 600 million of your taxpayer dollars that are going to wind up in my pocket when I pocket this and sell it for 8 billion a couple of years from now. It’s like and having real reporters challenge and say, Where’s the accountability? Steve, were you upset that Mark didn’t speak to the media after the game? Were you a little bit upset with the penalties this year? How do you feel about Justin Tucker, you know, having having the answer once a year as the person who owns it and is making hundreds of millions of dollars off of this every year, hundreds of millions of dollars off of this every year, and just took $600 million to fix the stadium up so that you could sit in the corner of the press box. I could be thrown out with Kevin burns name on it and be thrown out of the Super Bowl next week as an entity who has tried to support their organization, the tickets were under 100 bucks for their playoff games, they lead with this arrogance, in a general sense that their owner does not speak. By the way, Josh Harris showed up all over my timeline on Sunday morning, strangely enough, and like, just on my timeline doing like channel seven and Channel Four. Rah rah stuff at the train station in DC, and was like, they’re selling their game down there again in Washington. I saw that this week. I saw it on my timeline. I saw people bubble up from the earth that wanted nothing to do with Dan Snyder. I look at this, and I look at specifically at Chad Steele at the top of this, and I think about where David Modell and Roy summer off and Baker in an off season, where off the field and accountability, and then on the field and accountability that like we’ve gotten to a point where none of it matters. I know that that’s the lead story. The lead stories, the owner doesn’t speak this way. Why? Because he doesn’t have to, you know, why are we not broadcasting at the Super Bowl next week? Because they don’t care you. They don’t care about much. And Mark Andrews, Hey, dude, it’s okay. Well, you’ll put an inch to out. You don’t have to do that. Well, if he doesn’t have to do that, then I don’t have to do that. Then I don’t have to do that. And if he doesn’t have to do that, then why do it like and it becomes a slippery slope. And the first thing that Barry bloom sent to me on the mark Andrews thing was they’re trying to throw everybody out. They’re trying to throw everybody out of the locker rooms, period. So that’s where it’s going. I mean, like it’s going to 18 games, it’s going to all of that, but I just look at it on the off season and think about what it used to look like sitting in my seat broadcasting to the same people I’m broadcasting to right now, maybe their children, in some cases, out on YouTube. Hi kids. We know a little bit around here, and I the institutional memory of looking up and seeing art modell. In the building, and haven’t been in the building in three years. But I think to myself, like all of this stuff was below whatever the bar used to be, whatever, as Mike Tomlin would say, the standard is the standard. The standard used to be, the owner was accountable. The coaches were accountable. It was a friendly, convivial semi. Then the Ray Rice punch happened. Their integrity went out the window. They lied about it, all of them to get him on the field, including his wife and and put them all up to this. And for the last 10 years, nothing matters anymore. You don’t even have to come out and talk to and they’re going to run cover for you, and I’m going to be the bad guy, and I know this. And this is what I said to Leonard last week, that as a reporter, when I worked for the Baltimore Sun, I was like, you work for me. And like, what all of that you’re charged as the reporter to go get the story. You’re sent on the plane. If you go to my No one listens documentary. John Steadman said, put you on a plane, send you off somewhere to get the story, to get the story. The story. Last Sunday night was Mark Andrews, right, like it was, if you’re writing about it. And it’s not that I need to see him crying with a towel. I don’t need to see any of that. I just need to see if everybody else on the team is going to come out, and this is the way we’re going to conduct ourselves, and we’re going to talk about God and integrity and like of the people, and we’re going to do all of that. Then we have to do it in our darkest moments, or we have to then apologize and say that wasn’t good enough. And it was brought up to me about Ray Lewis and Oh, seven I remember Kevin Byrne coming out in the locker. Remember where he’s standing in the locker and saying, Guys, Ray can’t do this right now. Like Ray’s going to come out, I’m going to I’m going to get him out, but it’s probably not going to be in the next 20 minutes like and when Ray came out Monday, Tuesday, whenever it was first thing he said is, I want to apologize to all you, because I don’t, I’m always, I’m here, I’m accountable, right? That was, oh, seven. That’s where we were then, right? I don’t, you know. And Billy Cundiff, when I wrote all of that Monday morning, and I wrote it Monday morning. I figured by the time I write it, they’re going to be locker he’s going to be at the locker at one o’clock and just do whatever he needs to do for four minutes and say like, I’m disappointed we’re all dislike like every other athlete in the history of athletes has ever done, and I didn’t even realize that I was the one who asked Billy Cundiff and Joe Flacco, and probably horrible too, because I was sitting in the front row that and and that was at the point where I didn’t mind asking a real question. It got to the point where I didn’t ask enough questions, quite frankly, because it felt like they wanted to throw me out. And they did. They did. They did, you know, so for, for being the one to say to Billy Cundiff, Billy, what happened on the kick? Or if we’re saying to Joe, my first thought is, Joe, you look like you thought he caught it. Did you this? These are reporter questions, dude, this is what the fi Do you know what I mean? And so watching it all go down, and thinking, if I were the guy that vested 1000 bucks and 72 hours of your life to go cover the game on an icy night, driving down an icy road and bald tires from the National rent the car in Buffalo in Orchard Park like Jamison did and Jeff did that. A guy making 16 million bucks a year drops the ball needs to do better. And I’ll still say that a week later. I’ll say that after the Insta, I’ll say all of that. I think the whole thing needs to be better in a general sense. But I started with the owner on this and that’s where I start, because they used to bring the owner out next week when you and I were in Minneapolis or New Orleans or Atlanta or radio row, wherever we were. We rarely were at that conference at the end, because we’re sort of time that way to keep me out of it, I guess because they wound up throwing me out so I can make that case. But they, I don’t know, man, I just, I’m trying to evaluate it and evaluate the real accountability. And this isn’t me making stuff up. This is stuff you’ve been 15 year reporter. You remember when it used to be a different standard to use their word? Yeah. I
Luke Jones 19:10
mean, I don’t want to I express my thoughts on the mark. Andrews thing at the time, I my general rule of thumb is, if your performance stands out good or bad to the degree that your teammates are going to be asked about it. You should talk, I, you know, and I would say the same thing about anyone else on the team. If Mark Andrews was asked about someone else not playing well in a game, and he had to answer for them, I’d say the same thing about that player. So, so that’s, you know, leave it at that, on that front you know you, you spoke at length about it, you wrote at length about it. And look, I you know people. You’re not, you’re probably not going to change too many people’s minds on it, on a level of, if you don’t care that a player talks after a loss, then you’re probably not, you know, like it’s just not, you’re not going to change their mind. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 19:59
I’m a guy. Thinks that they shouldn’t be grabbing Andy reed in the middle of football games. I mean, right, sure, sure.
Luke Jones 20:04
And look, there’s a lot of nuance to this. And I think part of this is where media is going, where it is right now, where it used to be. And, you know, we’ve talked about this. And I don’t just mean Baltimore ravens.com here. I don’t just mean Masson for the Orioles. I think you’re seeing across sports leagues, across teams, across various entities that are owned by teams that social media on the player front that there’s a perception. I’m not saying this is the right one, but I think this the reality is there is a perception that the middle man’s not needed, and we’re the middle man in in terms of be representing fans and asking about player x, or what’s going on with this team, or what’s going on in the off season, or what happened in this game, or what happened off the field with this scandal, as you mentioned, Ray Rice 10 years ago and and all that. And I think there’s growing sentiments amongst players, amongst organizations, that, hey, we’ve got our own website. We can control the message, you know, we we don’t need to go to the media to put the story out.
Nestor Aparicio 21:08
There’s also growing revenue in doing that too. And
Speaker 1 21:11
sure, and if you’re a player, and look, there’s even some validity to this. And this is where journalism and reporters have to take accountability as well, where players will say, Why? Why should I worry so much about answering questions? If I know this, this reporter has misquoted me at some point in time or twisted my words in a way which we know that happens. I’m not saying it always happens. I’m not saying when there’s an accusation that it’s always fair. But we also both know reporters have done that. That’s why Patrick Gleason’s over your shoulder. Sure is so that. And look all of this now, when they do it all on camera for everyone saying you’re twisting words, you know your words are your words, there’s no more dark alleys of quotes behind sources said like that still happens, though, that still happens. And I see that because I’ve seen it, not in Baltimore specifically, not as much, but in the cut throat of cutthroat cities and markets in terms of getting stories that it still happens. It absolutely still happens. And I’m not saying that to absolve players from saying they don’t have to talk either. Let’s be clear again. This is all about everyone being accountable, reporters included. But I think there’s a growing perception in 2025 and it’s been trending this way in a long time, that teams have their own quote media players have their own microphone, which is their smartphone, or even, I mean, that they can literally broadcast Instagram Live, as Marlon Humphrey does after every win. And you get behind the scenes access on the team plane after a win, where, you know, players feel that they don’t necessarily need to talk to the media, because they can just talk directly to the fans. And, you know, media, it’s always been about being the representative of the fans, right? I don’t need Mark Andrews to be accountable to me. Luke Jones, the reporter, as much as about it, as much as it’s speaking to the fan base, right? So there is nuance with this, and things have changed, and things aren’t going to go back to the way they were in 1995 but not and I’m not suggesting that you were suggesting that. Let’s be clear. But where does this all fit? Where is this all going? And, yeah, it’s hard not to look at this and say that accountability isn’t lost along the way. So you know what, what? What’s going to quote, fix that to your point. You know very well. And we talked about this with the NFL pa this past fall, with with some of the their tactics, they’re trying to get media out of the locker room and and you know what major league baseball, the NBA and the NHL are all watching very closely to see what happens there, because the NFL, being the king of media in terms of its popularity, knows that if it happens there, they’ll be able to get away with it as well. So is
Nestor Aparicio 24:00
there a career as a sports journalist? And that’s what I asked Mark Hyman like you know, we got into this, to do this if you’re lucky enough to work for a guy like me, who would send a guy like you to Buffalo to be a reporter, so you could drive down snowy roads, park in the lot, wherever they throw you have a parka on to stand in a in a wintry hallway, after doing this all year, all your life, to when the moment happens that you’re there to witness, they just ghost you. That’s weak. I mean, it’s just weak, and it just speaks of the arrogance and the disrespect that Chad Steele has shown toward me, but he’s really shown it toward you the audience. So it’s it’s fine. I sit here on the outside watching this. I would have dispatched you. We would have been on a plane this minute, flying back from Kansas City. Maybe we thought going to the Super Bowl when I booked the flights three weeks ago, and they’re on the four game winning streak in. Beating everybody, and Lamar is the MVP, and Jalen Hurts his Gympie. And like we bought in, we I’ve been buying in since before Steve Bucha was trying to buy Maryland, you know what I mean? So I, I’m the guy that fought to get the team back here. But this is unacceptable, and I’m not going to back down from that. I’m not. I mean, it’s unacceptable that the owner does not take accountability, which tells the tight end he doesn’t have to take accountability, which tells the coach that He can say whatever he wants, whether it’s true or not, and the general manager sits there and laughs in Jerry Coleman’s face, which I’ve done, but it I mean, even if it’s Jerry Coleman, to snicker, I watched that thing on television now boxed out. And to Costas, I mean, please go read my Derek. Derek dekat. I mean, it’s all there. But who these people are to me on the outside, and then I watch their tight end go out the back door, and I’m just thinking, what? Come on, man. David Modell, art mode nobody I’ve ever known would be okay with that. John’s okay with that. Because, you know, like, John doesn’t like any of us anyway, me sitting here, obviously, right? So I, I’m just, I’m disappointed. I don’t think I’m changing it, but it needs to be pointed out, and I’m the only one pointing it out, so therefore it can’t be valid, right? Well, I
Luke Jones 26:25
don’t think you’re the only one pointing it out, because there are a lot of people who talked about Mark Andrews not talking. But I mean, look, people that have
Nestor Aparicio 26:33
been in that room that have been thrown out now, who asked the first question to Billy country, that’s me, sure,
Luke Jones 26:38
but my point is no every reporter who was in there noted that he was didn’t talk to the media, noted the following day he didn’t talk to the media. So, you know, there anyway, and I’m like Mark Andrews, and this is what I want to bring you, know, I do not consider, I mean, Mark Andrews won media good guy three years ago. He pulling back the curtain a little bit, not, you know, I don’t like to do this too much. Is he going to be the most enlightening talker when he answers questions? He, he’s very much a team guy, you know? He’s, he’s, you know, he, he has talking points that he generally will. But my point is, I would call him guarded with me. He’s, yeah, I think that’s, that’s a that’s a good way to put it. I think that’s perfectly reasonable. But in fairness, and look, you can’t force a player to to be a good talker with the media or not, right? In the same way that anyone you have an aptitude for it or you’re not, you have an interest in doing it or you don’t. But he’s been someone who consistently has been there, including after games over the years. He’s not someone who you don’t see in the locker room for three or four weeks at a time, as players in the past have done in various generations and all that, he hasn’t been a guy with any reputation. I really I Right exactly. So I don’t think this was a case of Mark Andrews saying, bleep those guys. I think Mark Andrews was truly that distraught and that disappointed and that devastated, that said, this is where we get into and again, this isn’t ravens specific. I think this is general, generally speaking, across sports, the role of what PR has become in 2025 in major professional sports compared to what it was 10 years ago, let alone certainly 30 or 40 years ago, where, you know, is the role to truly be a liaison, or is the role to be path of least resistance for the players? And you know, I’ll leave that you or anyone listening right now to answer what they think. But you know, do I think it was pushed
Speaker 1 28:45
in a very tough way for for anyone to really push Mark Andrews to talk, or did they just kind of let him be right, compared to how it might have been 10 years ago? Or, to your point, using the Kevin Byrne with Ray Lewis 20 years ago, you know, almost 20 years ago examples. So you know, again, I said my piece. I didn’t lose sleep over. Mark Andrews not talking. I’m not losing sleep over and I’m not saying you’re not either. Let me be clear. I’m just saying it’s me. It’s an organizational issue that begins at a ship and really ends in empty seats and cheap seats. And what
Nestor Aparicio 29:18
I mean it can of the fans and what your obligation used to be, and you’ve just decided, as the king Steve Bucha, that you’re just gonna lower your your own novel you, you’re just gonna move the bar down. And I’m not supposed to say that you’re not trying hard when I’m watching the guy in Washington try hard, right? You know, just in a general sense, I’m, see, I don’t know what the Orioles are going to do. I don’t know. I mean, I know, although I will also
Luke Jones 29:47
point out, as a 70 Sixers fan, Joshua Harris is not thought of very highly there right now. Let’s put it that way, sure. So you know, I’m just he’s still within the honeymoon period, and all of them look way. Way, way better because Jaden, they happen to be picking when Jaden, I remember
Nestor Aparicio 30:03
when Ted leonsis was up here, you know, trying to convince me I was Greek and you know, we were going to be if everything was getting he was gonna play hot. And then they didn’t smell money up here. They brought their basketball team up here to Towson. They brought their hockey team up here, and they didn’t smell people who were gonna spend $500 for pre season hockey games on crappy ice, and they just disappear. And he promised me they were bringing the Stanley Cup. He’s just lies. He lied to DC. These are not people of integrity and high character, and I can for Bucha, like when I wrote Purple Rain too. I thought differently of him. I have a different opinion of him now, certainly a different opinion of all of them. And it’s justified when a dude drops the ball who’s supposed to be one of their good people, one of their captains, and doesn’t come out where 12 years ago, Billy Clinton missed a kick and came out and didn’t even say, My idiot coach ate a time out, like I or maybe we could even take in a penalty and slow down the operation,
Luke Jones 31:09
though, still should have made it there. You know, I
Nestor Aparicio 31:13
don’t even hide from the media either. No, I agree. No, I’m just saying.
Luke Jones 31:16
I just didn’t want to misrepresent that part of it, because I think sometimes that gets a little overblown. Could they have managed a clock better and called a time out there? Sure he still, he still was set up and missed the chip shot. I mean, it’s that simple. Anyway, I look, I hear what you’re saying, and again, I I think most, most fans, most fans. And I’m not trying to make too too much of a generalization here, but they don’t care, is the team good or not, right? I mean, that’s really and this, this goes back to the issue that you and I have talked about for years, how I’ve talked about there are varying degrees of fandom, right? And, you know, there are people who love the team but don’t go to games and don’t pump a lot of money into it, other than their cable or satellite provider or whatever streaming service they need to watch the game. And you have some fans who were PSL owners before the team even arrived, and invested years and years and years and still do today and consume everything. And you know, you have a lot of people that are somewhere in between. And you know, I I’ll be totally and I, believe me, I do not say this to excuse Mark Andrews, but if I’m being self aware in terms of what I do, I don’t based on how the last week plus has gone, I don’t think most fans care all that much that he didn’t talk. I think you know the fact that he broke his silence and said what he said on Instagram, which, well, then we’re all going away. You know what I mean, like, but I’m just saying I you know no reason for us to exist if there’s no reason to ask them questions, well, go go away. Okay, maybe not that, but that’s where things have to be reimagined, right? Right? I mean, and look, we all know this, if you’re covering, if you’re covering a team in the same way that you did in 1995 that’s it’s kind of on you, right? I mean, you’ve got to adapt, right?
Nestor Aparicio 33:14
Adapt it. No, no,
Luke Jones 33:18
when I say you, I just mean in general, right? You know. So we know things have changed, right? I mean, we know. I mean, back in 2009 The question was, are you on Twitter? Right? In 2005 it was, are you blogging, in addition to, if you’re a newspaper writer, writing what’s in print, you know, what’s going out in the in the newspaper every morning. So, you know, it’s constantly evolving. You know, I I’m not going to sit here and say that I have all the answers for that, either of what it’s going to look like tomorrow, let alone five or 10 years from now or 20 years from now, but it’s certainly evolving. And again, I think there is a growing sentiment among teams, and I don’t say this meaning the ravens and the Orioles specifically, but I certainly include them in the overall picture that they can control their message and they don’t need a middleman. And I’m not saying that’s right. I don’t think that’s right to be very clear, because when that happens, you tend to be less less honest, right? When they’re holding you accountable. So, but I think looking at it pragmatically, looking at it realistically, taking the temperature of what it is, I think there’s more of that, and chances are Nestor, it’s probably going to only get worse. It’s probably not going to get better in that way. And as is always the case. And we talk about this, whether we’re talking about Thursday night baseball or or Thursday night football or major league baseball, setting playoff times for ridiculous middle of the day, and you have 15 hours of notice for a wild card or a divisional series the NBA, you know, with load management and people that drop 4000 Dollars, hoping they’re going to see LeBron James put for the play for the first time, and he sits out that night. And I know LeBron doesn’t I’m just saying using him as an example. You know what? Everything you see, ultimately, it comes back to the fan as a consumer to say, what are you going to tolerate? Because if you continue to yak eat it up in Yakut. You know, Thursday night football is a perfect example of that. People complain and complain and complain. But you know what they do? They tune in to Amazon every Thursday night and they watch it, right? Or at least enough people do that continues to make it profitable, where the NFL says, Well, we’re going to continue to do this. So at some point in time and again, I don’t mean this as media as much as just speaking as a fan, as a consumer, again, it comes down to, are you going to tolerate it or not? And if you keep if you keep watching, you keep buying tickets, you keep buying merch and subscribing to the four different streaming services that you’re going to need to watch every baseball game this year, and all the different things that as a sports fan, you’re being asked to do more and more of if you continue to do it, then they’re going to continue to push and push and push some more. And again, we get to the Orioles segment, because
Nestor Aparicio 36:09
we’re not going to talk about the team at all. We’re going to talk about $5 beers and $3 hot dogs that we’re going to talk about, right? Good idea on that stuff, the Birdland value, you know, going into it. This is an example. Katie Griggs comes in, and we’re going to talk at length about, you know, Mark fine and Don Kovac and their new team and like all of that. And these people are coming here, taking their lives, picking up their lives, coming here, trying hard, trying really hard. And the football team, yeah, they’re they’re good on the field, except when they’re having penalties and dropping the ball and losing games, and they’ve they’re a lot of flash, but in the end, they haven’t squeezed fruit in January, when it matters, not to me, but to the people that really matter, like Stephen A Smith, you know what I mean, like the people that do this nationally, that are starting to, you know, put the choke label on the ravens and on whether har ball is going to win. I
Luke Jones 37:04
don’t know if it’s starting. I think that’s, I mean, look, and just because you brought it up, hey, let’s go on to the field that you lose any right. Losing to the losing to the bills, is not a choke job like I there, there’s there’s a place, and there’s nuance with what’s happened over the last six, seven years, you know, in terms of what’s happened in January, look John Harbaugh and Lamar Jackson and the core veterans on this team, including Mark Andrews, they have to own that, right? And we talked about it last week. I mean, kind of lost in, you know, until it came to the for forefront on Sun last Sunday night was Mark Andrews hasn’t been very good in the playoffs. If you go back to that Titans game, which that to me, the Titans lost five years ago. That is the true game where I really say unequivocally that they choked. Okay, they were absolutely better than that Titans team. Was it disappointing losing to the Chiefs last year, absolutely, but they’re the chiefs. They’ve been in the Super Bowl five of the last six years now. I mean, they’ve won three they’re going for a three peat, which would be unprecedented.
Nestor Aparicio 38:10
So in general, when you lose these games, you make the mistake the other team doesn’t make. But we keep eating ourselves becomes the you know, we keep beating our show. Well, yeah, yeah. And, but
Luke Jones 38:23
I also, but I also want to frame it properly, in the sense that I look some of some of these terms, like choke jobs and stuff like that. I mean, we just, I think some of it’s used way too liberally. Again, I would, I would classify losing to the Titans at home as a 10 point favorite five years ago, and just, I mean, and really getting blown out. I mean, the final score wasn’t as close, or was closer than that game actually was. That was, to me, that was a choke 2018 I mean, Lamar just turned 22 right? I mean, that, that that offense had kind of been patched, you know, patched together with Bart Marty morning wake Park. Greg Roman, it was a great seven game run. They weren’t going anywhere that year. I mean, they weren’t built to to do what they were doing at that point, to to play into February. So, you know, 20 they lost on the road to the bills. It hurt at the time. But it’s not like they were a 10 point favorite or anything like that. Last year they lost to the chiefs. It really hurt. Were they better than the chiefs? Yeah, were they so much better that I would say it was this over the top, crazy choke job. Well, unless every team that loses the Kansas City chokes, you know, the chiefs have just been the best. And then, you know, this year, I mean, okay, they turned it over three times. Mark Andrews, would I say he choked individually? Yeah, when, when you Bumble on the penultimate drive of the game and then drop the two point conversion on the last drive of the game? It’s tough for me not to say Mark Andrews didn’t choke. There. But look, and I don’t say this to forgive like just to be an apologist. Losing stinks. It stinks that they haven’t broken through, and it is frustrating and they haven’t played their best football. But at the same time, there’s also a realization that the other team does try as well. And you know, a few years back, you’d say it was Greg Roman and the offense and Lamar not being, you know, quite as advanced as a passer, you know, for the first couple years. You know, when they get in those situations, that’s not the case anymore, you know. And we’ve seen a better version of Lamar Jackson in the playoffs the last year or two compared to his first three seasons. I think that would be fair to point that out, but the collective it hasn’t been good enough, and it is a case of what does need to happen. And, you know, I’ve seen a lot of people just try to throw every playoff loss in John Harbaugh’s face, going all the way back to 2008 and just kind of feel like you could do that with anyone. Couldn’t you, you could put together. I mean, look at Andy Reid in Philadelphia. Look how much failure, quote, failure they had in January in Philadelphia all those years. So was he an idiot then, and then he just kind of lucked into what they’ve become now. No, I mean, it’s part of it is, you know, you’ve got to have the right mix. And you’ve got a quarterback who is this, this generation’s Tom Brady and Joe Montana. And right now, the ravens and and Josh Allen are, you know, and the bills are kind of, you know, they’re the dolphins in the 80s and early 90s. And they’re, you know, they’re the Colts, until they broke through, you know, with Manning, you know, after what, eight years of not doing it. So, you know, and I don’t see that there’s a point,
Nestor Aparicio 41:49
though, where you think like burrow Lamar and Josh Allen, if they all get to one Super Bowl, how many is mahomes going to get to, and Kelsey is going to be on the other end of this. And I don’t know how long Andy Reid’s going to hang around, yeah, and all that. Like, I maybe he’ll hang another four or five years. I don’t know. Maybe he will, um, but there, there’s a point where you think, like, all three of them aren’t going to beat mahomes out every like, I just think the next five or six years, as I go back through the rothless burgers and the Mannings and the flacos and the people that did manage to break through one and on the other end, the Rogers and the breeze and for that class of player, on that other side, none I mentioned Brady. It was Brady and all the rest of them were fighting for scraps. Jalen Hurts is fighting for a scrap in New Orleans is an underdog two weeks from now. Yeah.
Luke Jones 42:44
I mean, and again, you just kind of said it Ben Roethlisberger, two Super Bowls, right? Peyton Manning two. And the second one really wasn’t Peyton Manning it was the Denver defense, right? I mean, Peyton, go back and look at his numbers in that 2015 postseason. Ironically enough, in oh six even, was not Peyton Manning that was leading the charge there. I mean, that colts defense and Bob Sanders, like they had that going their running game. I mean, Peyton Manning, ironically, didn’t play all that well in the postseason run for his two Super Bowls. But anyway, Peyton Manning, one of the all time greats two Super Bowls. I mentioned Roethlisberger too, Joe Flacco, one, you know, but, but you start in oh 101, patriots, oh two, the Raiders, rich, rich Gannon was an MVP in the league, right? You know that they got there, they got their butts kicked, and then you never heard from them again. And 20 years, 25 years later, they still sting. Every
Nestor Aparicio 43:39
time I see Matt Ryan, every time I see Phillip rivers, I think they were great quarterbacks.
Luke Jones 43:45
Yeah, they just, I mean, Phillip rivers is an example of someone who never even got to a Super Bowl. You know, if Peyton or if Tom Brady never existed, would he have maybe broken through at some point, maybe. But oh three patriots, oh four patriots, oh five Steelers, okay. Oh, six colts, finally. Oh, seven patriots. Oh, eight Steelers, oh, nine colts get there and lose to the Drew Brees, you know you again. We I don’t need to do this for another 11 years after that, but we know it was mainly patriots, and you were lucky if you got broke through once or twice. And, I mean, that’s kind of where the ravens, that’s kind of where the bills are right now. You know, the Bengals got broke through once and didn’t win, and since then, they’ve dealt with injuries and haven’t, you know, haven’t gotten back. You know, haven’t even made the playoffs the last two years. So, and let me be clear, I don’t say this to just give the Ravens a total pass, right? If you want to sit here and say that, John, if you don’t, if you don’t believe John Harbaugh, the Ravens can break through with John Harbaugh. Okay, who you going to hire? Because the rest of the league thinks you sound not saying that right, the rest of the, the other, every other market. Looks at that and says, you want to fire John Harbaugh. What the heck are you talking about? And people will say, Well, what about Mike Tomlin, the Raven standard, you know, compared to what the Steelers have become over the last five, six years. It’s not a comparison. It’s just not, I mean this, and the Steelers, anyone would say, well, they don’t have Lamar Jackson, exactly, you know, so,
Nestor Aparicio 45:22
I mean, and the Steelers have made the playoffs and been like, you know, they’ve,
Luke Jones 45:25
they’ve made the playoffs, but that’s been their ceiling, good team or a good game The Raven and look, let me be clear, I’m not saying that
Nestor Aparicio 45:35
the great team that has not been good enough.
Luke Jones 45:37
They’ve, they’ve won some, they’ve won a few playoff games not enough, fully acknowledging that I’m not spelling this out just to say that everything’s fine, but at the same time, I think you also need to, you know, you need to be able to see the forest for the trees and understanding there there’s still a heck of a lot going for them. And that’s why I said it’s kind of the blessing and the curse. You know, it’s not, if it’s truly as as simple as, as, as firing John Harbaugh, and you think he’s the problem. Who you hiring? What you got to trade for Andy Reid? I’ll hear that. Yeah, if the Chiefs want to give you Andy Reid, I’ll tell John. I you know, love you. But hey, Andy’s a little bit better, right? He’s one more Super Bowls, whatever. Who else would you say? Maybe, Sean McVay, maybe. And look, there’s some other coaches that I’d put on the same tier as har ball, right? Like, I’m not saying he’s unequivocally second best or unequivocally third best, you know. I mean, if you want to throw, you know, O’Connell for the Vikings, you know, you see what he’s kind of done and, you know, with lesser quarterbacks, and still been able to make it work. And, you know, there are other good coaches. But my point is, when I see people just like, bang the table about how bad horrible is, I’m just at some point in time, I would say this, and I’ll leave you with this, because I know we’ve rambled on a long time, but for John Harbaugh’s harshest critics? And there are even people that I know that are friends of mine, people I respect their opinion as even if they’re, quote, just a fan, I think they’re very knowledgeable, and they bang away on how bad John Harbaugh is. And I would say, if he was truly that bad, this would be leaking into the regular season, and it’d be leaking oil way more you’d be seeing them having an eight and nine season and or just, you know, just not you’d see more problems, you know, you’d hear more about locker room issues or things like, and you just don’t hear those things, and they’ve been excellent in the regular season. Okay, I get it. They went eight and nine and 21 half the roster got hurt, including their their quarterback, in early December. So what do you want? What do you expect there? Tyler Huntley was, you know, their secondary was made up of guys on the practice squad that I had a tough time keeping track of, let alone Joe Average fans. So, you know, I just think if he was really as bad as his harshest critics want to make them out to be this would really start to these things would show up in the regular season to a way, greater degree than talking about All right, I get it. Vegas loss is bad in week two. You lost to the browns in week eight. You know? I get it. And look those two games were the difference between playing in Buffalo compared to Baltimore, which might have been the difference, who knows? So I’ll hear that there’s criticism that’s warranted, but I still look at this thing in its totality and say, you know, and if this makes me a Pollyanna about it, then fine. I still think I’m much more in the camp of just got to try again next year. I mean, it really is that simple. And you hope that another year, another year of experience, a year older. We’ve seen Lamar look better the last couple years compared to how he looked in the 19 and 20 playoffs. And all these guys are a year older. You’re going to add some couple guys through the draft, and just like you do and you see what happens. So I know that’s not a good enough that that’s not a that’s a tepid answer for what they need to do, but I really do think that that’s the best path here, rather than firing your coach or blowing up certain elements of your roster and then just going into a complete unknown where you know you’ve been right there, you just gotta figure out a make one more play. Wait to make two more plays against Kansas City last January, and might have been a different story. Don’t fumble the ball going across the goal line. Don’t drop it in the end zone, right? I mean, these, these are not things that you need to have. Vince Lombardi reincarnate to preach to your guys, they need to know. So I if that, if that’s too wishy washy for people, that I’m wishy washy, but I really think it is as simple as you run it back and you got to try again next year and hope that you’re a year older, and that’ll make the difference. And and maybe Patrick mahomes, or will be, you know, they’ll they’ll be on a bad day finally, because they’re not going to win, they’re not going to win every year. Moving forward, I think, although. We’re at five of six now, so I think they’re gonna
Nestor Aparicio 50:01
win next week. I was leaving at that, so, yeah, probably, although I that’s a good Philadelphia roster, we’ll see. I mean, the fact that they time to talk about that. Yeah, we’ll get together. I’m gonna get you out for a couple Super Bowl next week. Gotta find whatever place you want to come. Maybe get you at the Cooper’s on Friday to, uh, to wrap the thing up for the week. Luke Jones series, Baltimore, Luke, you can find him out on the interwebs if you’re on our wnst tech service now, 6000 of you on it, all brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy, you’ll get any breaking news the Orioles, they sound anymore, 41 year old pictures. Maybe we’ll, we’ll throw that out to you. Get ready for spring training. And I’m getting ready for that big Steve Bucha de press comp, that’s not coming. I’m going to write him a letter. I am Nestor. We are W, N, S, T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. I’m a man of letters. We’re Baltimore positive. Stay with us.