Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the appearance of Kyle Stowers, Orioles bats and outfield depth as offense leads the way in a five-game winning streak.
orioles, point, matteo, talking, good, player, mullins, trade, jorge, holiday, play, hayes, games, year, pitching, mateo, give, sours, fourth outfielder, team
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
8
Welcome home we are W n s t Towson Baltimore, Baltimore positive or positively taking the Maryland crabcake tour back out on the road with our friends at the Maryland lottery I’ll have the Pac Man scratch offs to give away long litany list of places beginning of fate Lee’s here this Friday that we’re gonna be. I could give you the long list of the shortlist. I’ll make it real quick. June 4 On Tuesday, we’re going to be Cooper’s antimonium on June 6. Next Thursday. We’re going to be at State Fair in Gainesville doing brunch before the Blue Jays game on Wednesday the 12th. We’re going to be Coco’s and Laura Ville have a crab cakes on the 14th. We’re going to be at SLon Shaw and Cooperstown and Fells Point. It’s going to be packed. It’s going to be Fleet Week. That’s a big, big thing going on the weekend of June 14. We’re going to be back in Dundalk at Costas from one to four. That’s before the oil Yankees game that’s on June 20. And then June 25, we’re going to be Papist in Parkville. last but never least close to home. And I’m gonna get the chicken friend Chase over there as well with Jeanne and Luke Jones joins us now we’ve talked a lot of pitching as the Orioles are on a tear again after bad things happened in St. Louis. Good things happened in Chicago. Now they’re home. You and I will be together at fade these on Friday. We’ve talked a lot about the rotation. We talked a lot about relievers and where they are hitting the baseball. It’s hot, it’s cold. Sometimes it’s cold all night. And then you know a couple of big flies in Chicago, you win a game, you sweep another series, sours the depth of all of this curse that holiday guys that aren’t even here yet. And the guys that are here, we’re now getting into that. Fill out your All Star ballot for Jordan Westberg or whoever it’s going to be. But this team’s loaded and it’s loaded from a perspective that I was running around New York for two days. Every time I looked in the window, Major League Baseball is doing cut ins with the Orioles because the Orioles are an IT team if there’s such a thing. Yeah,
Luke Jones 02:03
I mean that Well, I mean even with the Yankees playing how they’ve played in the Orioles being relegated to second place for the time being although tied in the last column as they finished the holiday weekend. But, you know, the good young players, I think this is definitely a team that’s in transition to some degree I and I think that’s very evident with what we’re seeing in the outfield right now. You know, you mentioned Kyle stout hours, a really good game for him on Monday, some other moments over the last week where he’s hasn’t been playing every day, but seems as though he’s taking advantage of his opportunities. And in the meantime, we’ve seen what’s happened with Austin Hayes, although I’ll point out Austin Hays look at his numbers since returning from the Il. He’s been okay. You know, the swung the bat, okay. But we’ve talked a lot about Cedric Mullins. And, to his credit, Cedric Mullins had a nice day on Monday, or to run triple to other times he hit the ball extremely hard. You hope that’s the start of a turnaround for him. But I think what we’re seeing with this outfield at this point, we’ve seen Hayes already be relegated demoted to fourth outfielder status, so to speak. I think Cedric Mullins is very much in danger of being in that kind of a position at this point in time and you go back a full calendar year now you’ll go back to last last year. It’s Memorial Day, Cedric Mullins since then, you know, he’s been a sub 600 LPS guy, you know, that’s not that’s not good enough. You know, even with the defense, even with the speed, you know, that’s not good enough. So we’ve seen Colton Couser make a huge play as a centerfielder in Chicago over the weekend, you know, to end a ballgame. What Friday night I guess that was he can play a rock solid centerfield, you know, is he going to be Cedric Mullins at his best? No, but I think he can play plus defense in centerfield. So that puts even more pressure on someone like Mullins. So in the meantime, you want to see Kyle sours, get some opportunities, whenever Heston curse that might return to the major leagues. You want to see him get some opportunities. So we’ve been talking about going back to spring training, you know, where I was saying over and over and over the days of just automatically penciling in Hayes, Mullen Santander, no questions asked to me. We’re over at that point, certainly over at this point where you know, Hayes’s become a fourth outfielder, and we’ll see about Mullins, whether he’s going to maintain an everyday role. And by the way, very quickly, yeah, yeah. Well, and you have good young players in your system. And you have guys that are getting closer and closer to free agency and becoming more expensive and they’re not old, but they are getting older and for every player that we think about that plays into his mid 30s. Like Adam Jones, for example. You do have other guys that they get to even just age 2930 31 and sudden Really, what was the starting player becomes a guy that is a platoon player or a guy that becomes a fourth outfielder. So doesn’t mean that you’re jettison, you know, you’re gonna jettison these guys from the roster, but I’ve said it, you know, Austin Hayes and Cedric Mullins and even Santander, who, by the way, is still dealing with the knee. You know, I saw him walk into the Orioles clubhouse on Monday. And now he’s still got a wrap on that knee that he bruised in the Toronto series a couple of weeks ago. So So I think they’ve been trying to give him a little more time. He’s not having a great year, but he’s been better than Mullins and Hayes. So this is an outfield that there’s some opportunity here and Colton Couser has sees that I think that’s evident. Yeah, he’s the one guy at this point that you kind of feel pretty confident about, it’s going to be penciled into the lineup, at least six out of every seven days, you know, if not every day, so stay hours, he looks more confident. It’s a very small sample, he’s got to take advantage. But what he did on Monday, which, you know, he had the two run double keep in mind, he fell behind oh two, before he worked the county even and then doubled the opposite way. So it was a really good approach and drives in four runs. You feel good for him. He’s a really nice kid. We know that previous times that he’s been up one and hasn’t gone very well to he hasn’t played every day. So that’s made it even more challenging for him. But, you know, I want to see him in the lineup more often when you play
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:22
every day because Mullins and these guys were in Santander, those are the guys in the way. Right?
Luke Jones 06:27
Correct. So so so now you’re in this transition period. And look, this doesn’t mean I’m banishing the veteran, all the veterans to the bench, but you know, no one’s on scholarship here, right? I mean, unless you’re Gunnar Henderson, who’s an MVP candidate, or Adley, rutschman, who’s an all star catcher, you know, it’s okay for some of these guys to sit and not play every day, you know, because you have a lot of talented players, you want to get in the mix and see what you have. So, you know, in the case of towers, let’s see what it looks like, you know, I, there’s nothing I’d like more than to see Kyle’s towers over the next. I don’t know, two weeks, let’s say just throwing out an arbitrary number. But over the next two weeks, I want to see the kid play, play, make 10 or 11 starts you know, it doesn’t have to be every day, but I want to see it be most days. And let me see what it looks like, you know if he if he ends up looking, but like it did a couple years ago where it was too much swing and miss and he’s struggling then okay, we’ll revisit that. But, you know, he’s an athletic guy. He’s got pick time power, and he hasn’t even shown that yet at the major league level. But anyone who watched him at Norfolk, he hits home runs, you know, he can hit the ball, especially a lefty bat we know that plays at Camden Yards as we’ve seen with Gunnar Henderson and Adley rutschman. And Anthony Santander the last few years. So let’s see what it looks like. I’m guessing you know, my my gut on Kyle sours the last couple year has told me he’s probably more of a fourth outfielder type but Let him prove that let him show that you know, let’s let’s not make sure that just because you have these veteran guys or you have someone like curse dad, who’s the former second overall pick in the draft doesn’t mean you want to write someone else off because we’ve seen this with Gunnar Henderson who is an MVP candidate. And he was a second round pick. You know, every team in baseball could have drafted Gunnar Henderson including the Orioles when they took rutschman One one, you know in the same draft, which is pretty incredible. Still when you think about it, but you know Jordan Westbrook Same deal. He was up end of the first round, you know, that sandwich pit kind of guy. And we’ve seen him become an all star caliber kind of third baseman, at least that potential I think. So. You know, let’s see what Kyle sours looks like on a little more of a regular basis. You know, he plays good defense. You know, he’s athletic, you know, he can run, not going to steal a ton of bases, but he can run you know, that that athletic type that the Orioles have clearly earmarked as far as their, their evaluation, you know, they’ve drafted athletes, I think we can all agree on that. So, you know, let’s see what it looks like. And in the meantime, hey, Cedric Mullins, good game on Monday, but you got to build on that you’ve got to start becoming more consistent at the plate, you know, it can’t just be, oh, you hit a home run, or you hit a triple and then you don’t do anything for the next seven games. So you know, and he’d be, he’d be the first to tell you that Mullins knows it. He’s knows it, you know, from earlier in the year. You know, that doesn’t mean these guys are written off entirely. But they’ve known this. We’ve been talking about this for a couple years. Now. You know, we’ve talked about this scenario where these guys that you have this affinity for because they were part of the turnaround and they were part of the 110 loss teams, and they’ve been part of seeing the Oreos become good and relevant again and become a playoff team. But we also acknowledge that there are guys in the system coming that are going to be better than some of these guys. Not all not all and not every prospect is going to pan out and you know, we’ve seen a little bit of that as well, at least to varying degrees, but it really is a case of competition and that is very evident any outfield the infield is a little more set for the time being although I certainly we can get to Jorge Mateo and Jackson holiday and whatever that could end up looking like the rest of the summer. But the outfield. I feel good about Colton Couser being out there, Santander I’m still not I’m not writing him off as an everyday guy, whether it’s right field or as the DH on any given night, you know, I’m not I’m not at that point with him, even though he’s not having his best season. But with Hayes and Mullins, it very much is a case of, you’ve got to earn your playing time. I mean, that’s where we are at this point, because you have Couser you have set hours, curse Dad, you assume we’ll be back in that mix at some point in time, assuming he’s not traded for a pitcher, I was gonna say so
8Nestor J. Aparicio 10:39
he’s the deal of one right? And he’s he’s the guy with the glove deficiency, which will be something that they would always say. And by the way, oh, Hearn and mountcastle and Matteo are shining examples of your ass is on the line your jobs on the line in Oh, Hearns case, get out in Mateos case not they’re not there. We’ll try the outfield. Well, maybe you just be a pinch runner because you’re fast right kid? Oh, we forgot about your glove. Oh, you can do that too. And then there’s Westboro. Like, every day, we do a half an hour on someone. I guess ours is the guy today. Who was so far down the depth chart. I called him stout. And like four months ago. You know, you said the only one I’m really comfortable with is Colton Couser. Dude, if I would have if you would have said that in Valentine’s Day, I would have said give me a saliva test. Right? Like, like all of this. It changes fast. But it also shows for an Ohio now castle, the back of the Matteo to the original point, making it tough for skip to get them out of the lineup of a team that’s going to win 100 games, right? No
Luke Jones 11:52
question about it. And as I wrote in my 12 Orioles, thoughts at Baltimore positive.com. Through Memorial weekend, which Memorial Day weekend, which we know any baseball fan knows that’s the symbolic checkpoint of what it’s not early anymore. Now we’re about a third of the way through the season. Still a long way to go. Let’s be clear on that. But it’s not really early anymore. You know, Memorial Day is the checkpoint where you say, Okay, this is, you know, what you are at Memorial Day feels a little more real, you know, for lack of a better descriptor. So, you know, we know what this team is, it’s a contender, we knew it was going to be a contender, and even after the sweep all that, but one point that I made, if I had told you in mid March Nestor, that the Orioles primary second baseman, without saying the name, just saying their primary second baseman would be hitting 250 would have a 300 on base percentage would have a 470 slugging percentage would have 15 extra base hits would be playing good defense at second base would be giving you speed, although that’s not the perfect comparison I’m about to make. If I had said all that to you, you would have been saying what checks and holidays off to a pretty good start in his major league career. Jorge Mateo has really been huge for this baseball team. And I say that as someone last July, and last August, and last September, was wondering why he was still on this roster. Because, as I said, over and over, and look, I’m not gonna sugarcoat it. He was awful with the bat after last April, you had the fantastic April, and he was terrible with the bat the rest of the way. And he still continued to play against left handed pitching. And I get it, they were trying to keep them in the mix. And, you know, they didn’t know exactly what to do with Gunnar Henderson, whether he’s going to be there everyday shortstop or still play some third base, whatever. And I understood you wanted to hold on to Matteo for that speed factor in the postseason, albeit they ended up only ended up playing three postseason games before they were swept. But I think there was very much an expectation at the end of last year if you would ask most Orioles fans, and I think if you had asked most media, if Jorge Mateo would still be on this roster come June the following year, I think you would have found a lot of people saying no to that, knowing that Jackson Holliday was on the way, not knowing at that point that Joey Ortiz is going to be traded in the offseason. But what’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:09
the role and certainly wouldn’t write this kind of a roll shortly. How many bats? Is he gonna get? 113?
Luke Jones 14:15
8Yeah, yeah. So and look, let’s be very clear. When I’m praising him right now, this is not me, saying that he’s going to continue to be the everyday second baseman for the rest of the year. I think Jackson Holliday is going to be back at some point. Maybe not next week. But I think it’s going to be at some point in 24. But I think with what Jorge Mateo has done this year, we already knew he could play a heck of a shortstop, right? That was a known. We already knew he could run that. That’s a known commodity, you know, and he’s still young enough to know that he can still fly. And there’s a perfect example that Monday scores on a sacrifice fly from Adley rutschman. The shallow center field wasn’t even a play. Yeah, even though a lot of guys probably wouldn’t even take it off. on third base, and that spot, but that speed plays, but he has made himself. I’m not saying that this is an incredible feat, but I think just how quickly it happened. He’s playing a really good second base. And yeah, most shortstops can make that transition. But a lot of times, it takes some time. You know, the clock’s different when you’re talking about being a second baseman compared to a shortstop, he’s playing plus defense at second base. The range is impressive for a second. This guy’s born with a glove in his hand. Yeah, literally. And that’s my thing. So So even when Jackson holiday returns, and making every assumption, every expectation that Jackson Holliday, you know, whether he’s gonna be a Hall of Famer or whether he’s just gonna be a really good player, you know, I’m not gonna waver just because he struggled in April. But assuming he comes and becomes the Starting second baseman and a plus player, and then expect that all start bright. You know, it’s tough to say, I mean, you look at his numbers at Norfolk right now. And then I want to finish my thought on Matteo. But you look at his numbers right now.
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:03
The other right, like?
Luke Jones 16:06
Well, I mean, Matteo has made it where they don’t have to rush holiday back. Because Matteo has been he’s been an above average, rock solid contributor at second base for them, you know, not saying he’s an all star. Let’s be clear, I’m not going crazy here. But go look at all of his numbers. He’s been valuable to them. And I think, with holiday, the swing adjustments, you know, he’s not hitting for a great average hasn’t hit for a ton of power, he’s thrown a lot of walks. No, he hasn’t been bad. But I said this to you when he got sent back. I even predicted at that point, you’re gonna see him scuffle a little bit. And it has nothing to do with between the ears. It has nothing to do with a bad attitude or or being deflated from the incent down, it’s because the Orioles wanted him to make some adjustments with the swing. And now he’s in the process of doing that. So, you know, I think you said the all star break. And look, I haven’t heard from anyone in the organization that, you know, is taping this off or making predictions themselves. I think that that sounds about right. You know, that sounds about right. Think about Grayson Rodriguez, right? They sent him down right around this time last year. And he was back right after the all star break. Now. It’s not a perfect cop talking about a pitcher compared to a second baseman talking about someone who’s still very young. He’s not even 21 years old. But yeah, I think the second half of the season. Yeah, that’s kind of where I see this. But because Matteo has played so well, two months ago, we would have been debating Alright, who’s gonna stay and who’s gonna go between Ramona Reyes, and Jorge Mateo, with no disrespect, meant to Ramona Reyes, who won a Gold Glove a couple years ago, had some solid seasons, it’s not even a debate. I mean, Jorge Mateo is far more valuable than Ramona Reyes at this point in time. So even when holiday comes back, to me, Matteo has really solidified himself as being this team’s utility infielder can play second, in short, with Westberg flexibility, you can make that work, you know, Westbrook can play third base, you know, if you haven’t an injury, and Matteo plays second base, you know, Matteo can play short. Of course, if gunner needs a day, he can. It’s not his best spot, but he can play the outfield and probably not kill you for a day or two, if he asked to do that, and you know, he’s gonna be a heck of an option as a pinch runner off the bench late in games. So that’s, that’s a valuable role I just carved out there, you know, even even if he’s not going to continue to have a 770 Oh, PS. But, you know, it’s got 15 extra base hits that this hasn’t just been a, you know, a fluke the ball in the right field and hope for the best, you know, he’s he’s hit the ball with authority hit a long home run in Chicago over the weekend. So it’s really that, you know, holiday, they obviously had plans on him being in the majors, whether a
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:55
guy you could trade and get a real pitcher for No, I mean, but I mean, if it were him, I mean, you give him an approximate, like I when I’m trying to think of well, who’s going to want what for pitching. Yeah, later on in the year where this Andrew Miller is going to appear, and what it’s going to cost?
8Luke Jones 19:12
I mean, by himself, no, of course not. And I wasn’t implying that you were suggesting that. You know, could you would he be a throwing piece that would be appealing to team? Sure. But I think the Orioles would like to keep them at this point. Like I said, Well, that’s your defense point
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:29
is he has more value or else than he might have any other team in that role. And because they’re gonna they value speed, big time, and they value big time. He does both of those. Well, dude, he hit the ball better than anybody on the team last April for a minute, right? I mean, he’s capable of, you know, he he’s capable of being a guy in October that you know, will go six for 11 and a series and knock your socks off, you know? Yeah,
Luke Jones 19:55
I mean, you see it now. It’s, it’s more fleeting than you’d prefer typically, but But yeah, so I mean, let’s look at this month of May, you know, there’s been a lot of angst about the Oreos offense. If you go and look at the splits for the month of May, I’d venture to say that Jorge Mateo, probably profiles as their fourth or fifth best hitter this month. I off the top of my head. I haven’t looked at it recently. I know I looked at it a week, maybe 10 days ago, whatever it was. He’s been valuable for them. You know, he’s been really useful for them. The point I was making about holiday. Think about it. They had Adam Frazier, last year, year before that they had signed Ruth Neto door, you know, they had their lefty swinging second baseman, I guess they did bring in Tony camp for a minute, the first week of the season, back in April. But the point is, they absolutely thought Jackson Holliday was going to be on the major league roster at this point in time. So I’m not saying that that was going to be a crisis if he if it didn’t work if this scenario played out. But Jorge Mateo has absolutely absolutely ease the burden of production at second ace, you know that you aren’t weren’t getting from Jackson holiday. That’s why I said if you just did a blind, statistical look at what Matteo has done, if you looked at that blind and someone told you in mid March, that’s what they’d be getting from their second baseman, you would have assumed it was Jackson Holliday having a pretty decent start to his to his rookie season. So this is where I was gonna
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:20
8jump the holiday thing and say, this team projects to play baseball games in October, I don’t think yeah, you know, we’re going to Jackson holiday projects, the be the starting second baseman of game one, I think I guess I think what ain’t done nothing here, right. Yeah. You project that at but we’re going to try. And I guess this all goes into our, we would have thought you resubmit Taylor wouldn’t be on a team. Right? Like, there’s all sorts of things we, we may have thought Couser could have stung you, but he didn’t. And he Azure. And we could have thought, well, Westberg might not take that next step. You know, there’s all of this questioning about all of these people. And I don’t know that Melanson and Hayes were guys, when we were down in Sarasota. In March, we projected to be quote, unquote, failures or flops on the bench, or, you know, receding players in the Orioles arc of how they’re going to win 105 games this year.
Luke Jones 22:20
Yeah. And I think it’s very important. And some of the some of the examples you just cited. I mean, it makes the point for me, but it’s a long season. At this time last year, you know, we were talking about Ryan mountcastle, right, he had this bout with vertigo over the summer and lots of talk about trading him or him not being an everyday player and O’Hearn was playing so well. And and we’ve seen what’s happened then and mountcastle was recently and he’s streaky. You know, lots of players that Major League Baseball are streaky hitters, you know, we’ve seen that with mountcastle. Now for three or four years, had what three hits to the opposite field on Monday, that’s usually a sign that mountcastle is getting ready to, to bust out. But the point is, with all these guys, it’s a long season. And I will also say this to go back to your holiday point. No, I’m not going to sit here and just make an assumption. But I will continue to make the projection. Why? Because he’s still the best position prospect in baseball. That hasn’t changed, even though he had a really brutal first taste of the 12 years old and nine out loud. Yeah, exactly. He’s 20 years old. And on the flip side, after I just spent five minutes praising Him, we have also seen Jorge Mateo, go through stretches of time where he’s really good with the bat, and then go through four months where he does nothing. So I still will make that projection. And look, just because right now we’re talking about Mullins and Hayes is being guys that you know, in the case of Hayes has already lost his starting spot. I mean, he’s, he’s become their fourth outfielder. Now, he’s, he’s the new Ryan McKenna, at this point, you know, you hope an upgraded version of that, and I think will be an upgraded version. But, you know, in the case of Mullins, maybe Monday was the start of him going on a tear. You know, it’s a long season. We see this a lot with the bullpen where you’ll have, you know, Jacob Webb’s a great example of this, you know, when Kimbrough was really struggling, Jacob Webb saved a couple games for the Orioles. Now we’ve seen Jacob Webb the last week to 10 days not look quite as good. You know, there’s absent flows to this. I mean, this is how this works. When you play 162 You better have some guys that you wouldn’t be expecting to contribute, make some contributions for you. And yeah, for every gunner Henderson Adley rutschman Jordan Westberg. You hope Anthony Santander the last few years, you know, for every guy like that, that is an everyday player for six months and plays at a really high level. You do have some guys that you know, it’s like a shooting star right? You you enjoy the ride for a couple of weeks and they help you win a game or two and then they’re gone. Taylor but the Orioles a decade ago. Yes, Laura As Torres is a great example that like I said, Jacob Webb. You know, we’ll see. You know, I think Jacob Webb has an arm that you like, you know, but am I going to sit here and say to you with any level of confidence that Jacob Webb and Albert Suarez are going to be pitching, meaningful and pitching and meaningful games for the Orioles in September? I have no idea. You know, no
Nestor J. Aparicio 25:20
one told me three weeks ago, that’s ours was gonna have big RBIs and help them win games. On Memorial Day, when they’re giving away ketchup, relish and mustard. I would have said, How’s he getting that? Yeah, we’re getting to the house even getting in the lineup, because that was going to be the question from the beginning. And when he gets in the lineup, what’s he going to do? Well, when they give you the bat, and you swing it, you get to stay cold and Couser. And when you don’t, you get to go to Norfolk and work on things, Jackson holiday. Yeah,
Luke Jones 25:47
I mean, that’s just how this works. And again, just because someone’s playing great right now doesn’t mean that that’s going to be the case in two months. And on the flip side, you know, Jackson Holliday struggled and got sent back. And we’ve seen, like Elias said it at the time, you know, that, I think it was very clear that this was not going to be a quick reset in Norfolk. And then he’s back two weeks later, you know, I think they wanted to him to process what he saw at the major league level, make adjustments with the swing, you know, adjust the leg kick that he has all of that. And he’s been working on that. And the numbers haven’t been awful at triple A, but they haven’t wowed you to the point where you say, oh, my gosh, this guy has nothing left to prove. He’s got to go to the major leagues. So but he’s going to be back. And I’m guessing he’s going to be that much better for it when when he does return, because I think he’s a really talented kid. And I don’t think so many people the Orioles and otherwise, who called him the best prospect prospect in baseball, I don’t think all those people were wrong. You know, I don’t think those two, two and a half weeks that he really, really struggled. It wasn’t even two and a half weeks, I can’t remember it was certainly like 10 games, whatever it was. But, you know, I think he’ll when he comes back, he’ll be better for it. And in the meantime, Jorge Mateo has been really helpful, really useful, really valuable to them playing second base at a time where you could have been saying, well, their second basis is, that’s been a black hole for them, you know, it’s been really that no material was produced for them there. So I’m saying
8Nestor J. Aparicio 27:17
even in a trade piece for any of these guys, now, you know, Hazel and Marlin seem to be a little more pricey, and they’ve been struggling, although, you know, we grabbed Yankees trashy guys last year and won 101 games with them. So like, those kind of those kinds of players move around, right? As we get there, but the value of being able to play and showing that you’re a major league player, I guess the case what I was gonna say, in the trade standpoint, these are these guys are big league players all, they have 34 Big League players. So at some point, at this point, while they’re big league players, and they’re not stupid, expensive in regard to a trade situation, as you’re starting to meet up with, I guess, only relief pitchers, I guess they will be dealing for another starting pitcher, right?
Luke Jones 28:06
We’ll see. I don’t know. Flies, you never know, with some of the injuries of late you might be revisiting that idea. I, I, I would tend to agree with you. The other
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:15
part is burns feels like very fleeting, feels like diamond stone to me. You don’t I mean, it feels like he’s not going to be here next year. So I keep thinking to myself, if you’re dealing in your alias into this, you’re going to want to deal into this year’s Dylan cease and figure out how to Kersal for next year, you know, find that that a guy that you’re going to have it and if you’re going to deal, it’s going to be more than just take one and you’re saying, Well, you can’t have holiday. We said that about Dylan, Cece, last year, whatever. Who are the guys that are going to go because it’s going to come from this pile of players, because they’ve had such it’s insane that you know that Star Wars is up and hitting the ball right now. And we’re talking about two all stars and 3030 guys as though they’re yesterday’s news, and they’re 30 years old.
Luke Jones 29:07
8Yeah, I mean, it’s, but we’ve been saying this was going to happen. That’s why some people and I wasn’t banging the table for this, but I thought it was an idea that had some merit. It’s why, you know, the last offseason, I probably would have explored trading one of my veteran outfielders for this very scenario coming to fruition, not so much expecting that Hayes was going to struggle or predicting that Mullins was going to struggle, but just the idea that yeah, you do have Colton cows are coming and you still have Kyle sours who could potentially click and, you know, we’ll see about Heston curse dad, you know, that was why some people thought, you know, this might be the right time, especially coming off of an All Star Season, knowing that he’s only another year out from free agency of maybe trading Austin Hays at that point in time or trading Cedric Mullins at that point in time. Look, I’m not saying that that’s an easy thing to do when you’re talking about guys that have been important to the turnaround in the last couple years. But hey, that’s why Mike Elias makes the big bucks. That’s why you got to make tough decision. That’s why we’ve seen Ozzie Newsome and Eric to caster on the football side trade, valuable players, you know, when they’re a year away from free agency or knowing that they’re not going to sign them long term and say, You know what, let’s go get, we can go get a first round pick for Marquis Brown. Let’s do it. And they did it. And they got Tyler Tyler, Linda Obama Pro Bowl center out of it. So managing his assets, right period. That’s tough. It is. I mean, it’s, it’s a, let’s be very clear. It is a best problem to have. But it’s still a challenge. It’s still something that
Nestor J. Aparicio 30:44
you’re perceived as a big league player who can help Team X produce and available role, whatever that is. And that’s why guys like Matteo, and guys, they can feel the ball like Mullins and Hayes to some degree, we’ll give that guy a chance. We’ll bring him in. We got an injured player, we think we’re in the race, we think we can get the 87 or 88 wins. There’s a lot of that going on. There is
Luke Jones 31:06
no question. And I want to go back to one point you made not that I have a specific name in mind. But you made a point, talking about the starting pitching and I mean, look, two weeks ago, yeah, we were talking about a six man rotation. And now they have too much pitch. I never thought they had too much pitching. You know, I thought that was, yeah, that felt like stuff that you say when you cross your fingers and knock on wood, certainly. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 31:27
a lot of it looks like Jamie Moyer right now, right? Like, hey, he’s
8Luke Jones 31:30
he’s done a nice job. But you made a point. I think it’s an interesting one, because I’m in agreement with you. And I’ve said all along. I’ve I don’t think Mike Elias philosophically believes in being in that kind of market that, that Corbin Burns is going to be in this offseason, I think he looks at it in the way that we’ve been talking about it pitchers break. And you’re going to make that kind of an investment. Bet betting on Corbin burns staying healthy and not being in a position where you’re paying a year and a half for him to do nothing but rehab from Tommy John surgery. And you know, I’m being a little over the top and saying that, but not really, you know, when you consider just how, how the game is trending in that way. But you made a point about going out and maybe getting another starting pitcher. I think you know, it’s not going to be Dylan cease, obviously. But that kind of a guy where you’re talking about getting someone that could fortify your rotation for this year, with some of the health questions they have, including with Brad is just going to continue to do what he did on this weekend and stay healthy for the next five months and and all that. But can you add someone that fortifies your 20 year rotation for 2024 and essentially replaces Corbin burn spot next year, if you can do that. And you know, I mean, that’s not going to cost you Jackson holiday per se. But my Costa has cursed that, you know, Mike Kosta, Kobe male, you know, not saying both of them, but maybe one of those guys. And you know, throw in a second tier guy, third tier guy, whatever it is. And keep in mind the Orioles. Second and third tier prospects are still better than other teams. You know, we always talk about the same five guys at the top, but it’s a really deep system. So I do wonder if the developments of the last couple of weeks with John means Dean Kramer, although Kramer doesn’t sound like that’s going to be a long term deal with means when anytime they talk about second opinion, you know, I’m just hoping this doesn’t mean he has to get surgery again, because I feel for the guy, you know, I really do. Point is you can’t really count on. Knowing if you’re gonna get anything from John means the rest of the year. I mean, if you do great, you know, maybe moves to a bullpen role, whatever. But if there’s an opportunity for them, we’ve talked a lot about the bullpen, and I’ll continue to talk about that, because I still think they need that. But I think the last couple of weeks probably have reinforced the idea that we shouldn’t be dismissive at all about if an opportunity presents itself to go out there and get a starter that might be controllable beyond 24. And you can fortify the rotation, strengthen the rotation, basically replace Corbin Burnes next year, if you’re not going to resign them, which I don’t expect that they are, you know, well, that’s why I’m thinking sounds like that sounds. That sounds like a good idea. Yeah. With an owner who
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:23
wouldn’t mind taking on 10 $12 million a salary for some veteran that feels like they want to have that guy in their roads. I mean, I don’t try think everything’s on the table here other than dealing Henderson rutschman or, or holiday or Westberg. Right Like everything else is Rodriguez wouldn’t be deal but but you know, I mean, they they have a handful that but everything else to me feels like we talk about these interchangeable parts. And there’s only three slots in the lineup every night for nine guys to play or 10 guys in the organization right now.
Luke Jones 34:58
Yeah, I mean, it’s just as three said it’s a good problem to have, but you still want to maximize your assets, right? You still want to be in a position where you’re not just having someone sit at AAA. I mean, I think Kyle sours is a good example of this not not from a standpoint of what we’re seeing now where he’s coming. He’s come up, and he’s shown some signs of being, you know, maybe he is going to be a real player for them. But I think Kyle’s towers being stuck at Norfolk the last two years, has that hurt the perception that other teams have of him, you know, where they see a guy that is sitting there at Norfolk has put up numbers, you know, go go look at his numbers, he’s hit for a lot of power, all that it’s not as though he was bad at triple A. But you do wonder if a guy gets stuck there, and he’s there for a couple years? The perception almost becomes that, oh, well, he’s only a fourth outfielder or Oh, he’s a quad A player because the Orioles would he’d be in the majors if he was better. It doesn’t take long when you’re 20 to 23 to get that right. Get that reputation and it was completely unfounded. It still is, you know, and that doesn’t mean he’s an everyday above average, Major Leaguer, either. I mean, it’s still an unknown. But you don’t want to be in a position where these guys are blocked so long that it becomes counterproductive to then when the time comes that you want to trade them that other teams are like, wait a second, why do you want to deal this guy when he’s been stuck at? You know, he’s been stuck at Norfolk for two years. And now you’re trying to trade them? Are you trying to pull a fast one on me? You know, I
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:24
8valuing your own assets.
Luke Jones 36:26
I’ve listened. I’ve heard this, I’ve heard this, I want to say it was Jim do cat on MLB Network radio. I was listening to it not long ago. And he presented. I don’t know if I buy this. But I think it’s an interesting idea. At the very least, he actually presented the idea the notion that the Orioles having such a deep, good minor league system. This sounds counterintuitive. But when you start to think about he said in some way, in a strange way, it almost might make things more difficult for them to pull off the kind of tray that you suggest. Because other teams look at this and say, you’ve got this rich system, you can give us a little more than what you’re offering. And it almost becomes, you know, the opposite of what you would think you would think when you have all these players, you’d say, Oh, well, trade should be easy. Well, these other teams know that the Orioles have a lot of great prospects. So they want a lot of talent, they want a lot in return. So, again, I don’t you know, I think you could kind of talk in circles, you know, there’s some circular logic that can go go into play there. But it was an interesting notion, at least, and other teams
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:32
don’t have the artillery to make the best deal, right? The boys will have, like the Yankees always had that for years where they had artillery and money, too. And the Dodgers when we even when we made the Machado deal, right? Like, there was a perception that their wealth buys them better players and all the way through, and that and they’ll also give you more when the time comes because they’re desperate to win. And they feel like they’re one player away and we’ll get one use now. Diaz thrown into the deal. I see. I don’t want to make you groan. I was gonna give you Kramer but his arm hurts. You know, I just I want you know, like so. Right.
Luke Jones 38:10
He was the one who worked out DS not so much. I mean, last I saw he was still in WA he was back with the Dodgers, but still in double A but yeah, I mean, I look, I think the other thing that we don’t know here, that’s still an unknown one. What is you know, Rubinstein, throwing out hats. And so can people in the bird bath and all that that’s great. I’m, I’m not diminishing that. I’m not diminishing that having value. But this is where we still don’t know. And I don’t mean this as a criticism. It’s just what it is. It’s an unknown in terms of what he sees payroll, where he sees it going, where he sees them going from free agent standpoint and potential contract extensions. And we know this about Mike gulyas. He’s been very methodical in how he’s built this. Right. And even the trades he has made. I don’t think you would view any of these trades, even the burns trade. I mean, think about it. They gave up a couple of assets, but Joey Ortiz was completely blocked. I mean, Joe, you’re Can you imagine Joey Ortiz still being in the conversation here? Considering what Westberg has become? Mateo, still being a valuable utility guy at the very least Jackson Holliday, Gunnar Henderson. I mean, Joey Ortiz had nowhere to go. So they traded him. And yeah, DL Hall while I I very much was the thought that I think the ship had sailed on him being a starter deal would look good in the back of this bullpen right now, you know, the healthy version we saw at the end of last year. So But that said, it’s not as though any of the trades Mike Elias has made at this point have been that’s so extraordinarily bold, you know, even even the burns acquisition, which is good, I’m praising it. Let’s be clear. Trading, DL Hall and Joey Ortiz. You know these weren’t the two best prospects in your system either, you know, at that point in time, Ortiz was blocked and DL Hall again. I think he’s a reliever. And if he’s a reliever and not a starting pitcher, he’s not the same kind of Prospect anymore. So that’s where I look at this and say, okay, at some point in time and upset this, we talked about this last year at the trade deadline, you know, with there being an inflection point where you say, are you willing to make the move or or to that’s going to get you over the hump. Now. They they acquire birds Bravo for that no questions about that, whether they extend them or not, you know, that was a great move even with just for one year. But at the deadline, whether we’re talking about a starter, or certainly a bullpen arm or two, is Michael is going to go out there and be as bold as he needs to be. And that doesn’t mean that you trade away your entire system. But it might mean that yeah, you trade away someone that you’d like to hold on to, but you see an opportunity for this team to maximize its chances of winning a World Series
8Nestor J. Aparicio 40:56
without burns if they didn’t make that deal. I mean,
Luke Jones 41:01
look, they’d still be good. But, you know, would they be tied with the Yankees in the last column right now? No,
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:07
they were there starts coming from you’re talking about that, you know, that he’s, somebody else would make? You know, like, look, I mean, it’s,
Luke Jones 41:16
8do I think Corbin Burns has been so unbelievably incredible and extraordinary. No, it’s not like he’s thrown complete games. You know, he hasn’t been a guy that’s throwing seven or eight innings, but you have a great chance to win every time he pitches and there’s value to that, you know, we saw it last year when Kyle Bradish and Grayson Rodriguez became those guys. You know, Rodriguez more on the second half of the season. Bradish all year. You know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 41:37
we’ve been beating them up since Sidney Ponsoldt about and Erik Bedard about getting off season pitching. I mean, it was always Kyle Gibson, it was always that level of who they could get when the fences were in, and they stunk. Now, they can get kind of anyone happily to come in and say I’ll be your rent to ace. And we may be moving into that era, where this year Jimmy key and next year, it’s David Wells, and the year after that, it’s Kevin Brown, you know, and if that’s the way they’re gonna grow it around one Ben McDonald one, like Messina, who happens to be Grayson Rodriguez, I don’t think it could be Bradish at this point. But that’s, you know, as long as the elbow sort of dangling and you’re like, maybe I don’t know that I feel that way about him. But the pitching part of this, I don’t think it’s too early or too late to be talking about whatever that acquisition might be, it’s going to come out of his depth, and you say won’t be bold? Well, I mean, curse that was a lottery pick, they had to stink really bad for a year just to get him. And if they feel like there’s no spot other than DH on this team, for him, in this outfield on a team where they really value defense, and they’re pitching, it’s gonna value defense and all the way philosophically they value defense, it would seem to make sense that if we rewind this eight weeks from now, and he’s the guy that’s out with, and I mentioned, Matteo and I met, you know, I think they’re guys off the table now. But I think they have pieces that they could do in places where other places might, you might get a number three star number, you might have to come up with money to Yeah, and they have an owner that will be willing to do that now. And that’s part of burns versus Gibson, too, right?
Luke Jones 43:15
Yeah, no question about it. And look, I mean, there are going to be moves to be made. There’s no doubt about that. You know, and, you know, I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention, what theme gaago Vieira, on Monday, which men. I’m not even saying this to try to be little the guy but maybe the worst Oreos debut club history. I mean, just awful. You know, maybe he’ll bounce back, we’ll see. I think you saw it’s got to live arm. But I think you saw a glimpse of why Milwaukee threw in the towel on him. And he was available in that trade. But you know that they’ve got to make moves, that they certainly need to fortify their bullpen. And I think, you know, we’ll see what’s going to be the outcome with means we’ll see if Dean Kramer truly is back in a week or two, you know, like, like they seem to indicate we’ll see if Kyle Bradish continues to look like Kyle Bradish. And I’m encouraged by that. Let’s be clear, but they’re still unknown, right? I mean, anytime you have an elbow, you’re wondering, but opportunities is going to be there. We’ll just you know, we’ll see how bold Mike Elias is willing to be whether it is trading a curse dad or trading a Kobe mayo. You know, like I said, I I’d still like to see Kate Povich in the mix here. Right? The numbers at Norfolk go look at them. They’re impressive. You know, it’s Miss bats and era is really good. You know, could he be the guy that is this year is Grayson Rodriguez in terms of maybe second half of the season, contributing for them and pitching and being a part of their rotation? We’ll see. But, yeah, they’re, you know, we’re still two two months out from the trade deadline. You know, so we got a long way to go. But I think anyone who looks at where the Orioles are pitching wise, where the Yankees are in The Division and how good their pitching is and how deep their pitching has been. It’s difficult, envisioning the Orioles really having their best chance to get over the hump without making a move or to have of significance of substance by the trade deadline, and they have the pieces to do it to your point, but Mike Elias ultimately will need to pull the trigger. And we’ll see what it looks like in the meantime, they are still winning a lot of games. They’re still really good team as they’re presently constructed. And that’s what’s so encouraging about this, I think they have an opportunity to go from really good to even better. And that’s a good place to be for an organization that could not even dream of such things not all that long ago.
Nestor J. Aparicio 45:43
Well yeah, say say 15 years you and I’ve been at it and only you and I could go two hours of talking about pitching and then the offense without even mentioning. They walk enough but welcome. We’ll talk about that later on. Red Sox are in town. We maybe that’s our topic for Friday, it fails. I’ll have the Pac Man scratch away from the Maryland lottery. Luke and I will be at fadeless together on Friday. There’s a whole litany we’re going to be at Cooper’s next Tuesday in Timonium, we’re going to be at State Fair next Thursday in Kingsville. for brunch, the 12 Coco’s the 14 That’s launcher for Fleet Week. We’re going to be Costas and Dundalk on the 20th Pappas in Parkville. On the 25th later in the month, it’s not karaoke night. That’s Monday at Pappas. I’m going to be there on a Tuesday, but I will come and sing from my chicken franchise. I am Nestor. We are wn st am 1570, Towson, Baltimore. Good to be back on the grid. It’s good to be here. It’s good to be anywhere
Luke Jones and Nestor discuss Stowers, Orioles bats and depth as offense leads the way
