On Monday morning, the Baltimore Ravens closed up the season with the traditional locker room cleanup and Luke Jones was on the scene to report to Nestor about the aftermath of a lost opportunity for the franchise and Lamar Jackson to win a Super Bowl. Where does Eric DeCosta go from here?
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the aftermath of the Ravens’ playoff loss to Buffalo, focusing on the challenges of playing in cold conditions and the team’s turnover issues. They highlighted the Ravens’ 16 turnovers in nine playoff games since 2018, contrasting with their 3 takeaways. Despite the disappointments, they emphasized the team’s overall performance and the need for better ball security. They also touched on the importance of offseason planning, potential roster changes, and the resilience of players like Patrick Mekari and Patrick Ricard. The conversation concluded with reflections on the Ravens’ potential and the importance of maintaining a positive outlook.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
locker clean out, Ravens season, Mark Andrews, Buffalo game, playoff disappointment, turnover issues, Lamar Jackson, offensive performance, defensive struggles, Super Bowl aspirations, player contracts, offseason planning, team chemistry, weather impact, future outlook
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, A, F, 1570 towns of Baltimore and Baltimore, positive. We are positively into the healing phase of the aftermath. Took me about a day and a half to cancel my flights to Kansas City. I still have the flights to New Orleans. I swear to God, I haven’t canceled those yet and brought myself to do it. I am going to bring myself to having crab cakes again. We’re going to fire up the Maryland crab cake tour, also known as a cup of Super Bowl. I’ll have details later in the week. I didn’t go fully forth because I thought we might be going to New Orleans and Kansas City. Now that we are not, we are going to be doing some Marilyn lottery scratch offs with magic eight balls. That may say next year will be better, I don’t know, but we’ll start things at cost this week, from Monday, we’ll also be a Cocos. We’re going to be at State Fair. We’re going to be fadelies. The whole schedule will be out. I’m looking forward to doing that big appreciation our friends, curio wellness, as well as Jiffy Lube, and everybody else that puts us out on the road and powers up this engine, including liberty, pure solutions. Luke Jones has been powered up, dude, I gave you a chance to go to Buffalo. I offered to go and sit in the cold. We didn’t go. Part of it was like, let’s play total like, you know, let’s not go K fame. Part of it was like, you’re like, well, if they lose, I’ll be there to clean the lockers out on Monday. Because, driving up, driving back, snowstorms, flying up, flying back, what are we doing radio if we’re taking a 6am flight, because, like, doing the radio is what we do. It’s a holiday on so we had all of these issues, right? And we’re like, no, no, no eggs in the basket. We’re going to Kansas City, and then I’ll end up but we’re not going to New Orleans. I said, right, and then I changed my mind. I’m like, Yeah, let’s go to New Orleans. So then I booked the flight to New Orleans, and of course, they pooped the bed in Buffalo the other night, whatever. But it has been an interesting sort of 72 hours all the way around. If you want to read about my mark, Andrew, stuff, you can read about it. Luke, you talked about it at length. You were at the lockers on Monday. I don’t I hadn’t been to a locker clean out in maybe since Ted March abroad. I’m lying. But I mean, it’s been a long, long, long, long time since I’ve been out there on that day. There is something about maybe reporters not being able to get there because of the transfer of sometimes you get eliminated different all sorts of different places. Can’t vibe me out on everything, because I’ve heard every direction on look, first things first. I like Mark Andrews as I wrote, I’m not a hater. I’m not I just and I’m also a journalist, and I hope people can so all of that, and I don’t need to know why he thought or like, like, you know, it’s Jackie Smith. It’s terrible. And I’m sure he has mental anger. I’m like, and I’m not even be belittling that because of his salary. But I think for for all of it, there is this air coming out of the tire that we all need to decompress a little bit off of you and me think we were having barbecue this week and me still literally having flights to New Orleans on my app two weeks. Yeah,
Luke Jones 03:07
it’s frustrating. You know, to go back to your point about buffalo. I mean, the reason why is I knew it was going to be, let me look at my app right now. As you and I talk, it’s three degrees at my house at the moment, as we’re as we’re chatting in real,
Nestor Aparicio 03:20
real degrees. Yeah,
Luke Jones 03:22
no wonder I’m cold. Well, you remember I’m up here in southern York County. It stays a little bit colder. Hold on,
Nestor Aparicio 03:27
I gotta get my phone find out now, must be six where I am,
Luke Jones 03:30
I bet you it’s not much, not much warmer where you are. But look, I mean locker clean out. Day is always I mean, and I speak through the the lens of having covered the Ravens from 2000 full time, 2011 my first locker clean out was the day after Billy Cundiff and Lee Evans and to the modern day. I mean, there haven’t been that many years in there where they didn’t make the playoffs, right? I mean, 2013 2015 2016 2017 and then 2021 which that was in COVID, you know, midst of COVID, so there was no block or clean out, you know, it was virtual. So don’t have a lot of experience to draw off of teams that didn’t make the playoffs or teams that were just flat out bad. So what you’re looking at are teams that were eliminated in teams that had varying degrees of Super Bowl aspirations, and suddenly it’s over. We always talk about how abrupt it is. I mean, we talked about that with the Orioles back in early October, when they have a bad 24 hours, 27 hours against the Royals, and it’s over, just like that. Football is even worse because it’s single elimination, so you have the disappointment of it. I would also say, and I don’t know if this necessarily makes fans feel any better, but there’s also a reminder that this is business for these guys. This is their job. They’re these guys all wanted to win. They all wanted to get to the Super Bowl. They all put in. So much work, and at the end of the day, as much as you and I think about being invested as media that cover the team and talk about the team throughout the year, fans, but put their disposable income into it, all of it, no one invests more than those guys, right, especially the coaches, but the players, you think about what they do over the course of, specifically, OTAs through the end of the season. By the way, that
Nestor Aparicio 05:24
is an interesting juxtaposition you just gave me that you called me a media guy. No, I used to be and I experienced it. Now I don’t. So some of these guys, I don’t know them. I don’t feel the same way. I don’t I mean, we talk to them in the witness so now I’m more like a fan, where it’s just give me mine, right? Like just and take a piece of them and I’m going to sit on the bar stool and be a jackass, and that’s not who we’ve ever been. And part of that is being on the other end of the humanity of seeing Ray Lewis crying in a training room in 2007 when he did not come out and deal with the media, and seeing Ed Reed talk about retirement of his locker and being up on it, as opposed to seeing it on TV, as opposed to not caring about it at all, or as opposed to I lost a bet because of you, which is the more modern parlance of what I see, you know, out in the world. How does it affect my my app and my money on my like, what? That’s what the league wants. To some degree more than you broke the heart of my hometown, which is the direction this thing is going in, I would just say this, the humanity of all of this is never lost on me or this media entity to say that how hard these guys try. And I’m always humored by when fans think they take it harder than the players do, because the player goes back to a $3.8 million mansion in Orlando and a gated community like I like, that is the reality of it. The reality of it is Mark Andrews is a big, big winner in life, and this is a tough week for him, and in something for everybody out there, no matter how much money you have, no matter who you are, you know, you thought you were getting a ring, or you had that. We thought we had plans to go to New Orleans. So did the whole building, you know, so did everybody, right? So there’s being respectful of them doing it 24 hours a day, and where the fans lie in that. And I don’t, I don’t know, in the modern world what they really owe the fans, or what, even what they think they owe the fans, above and beyond just coming out to the podium and taking a couple of questions from Jameson in the middle, but, like, I don’t really know, other than fans want some sort of answers and accountability that they’re certainly not going to get I mean, Bucha, he’s not coming forward. Nobody’s going to throw Mark Andrews under the boss or, like, what? I just none of that’s going to happen here. I mean, we know, and I don’t expect any, I don’t want any of that to happen. But the healing part of this, it doesn’t happen by Tuesday or Wednesday of this week. It just doesn’t. Man,
Luke Jones 07:59
it doesn’t. But I guess the point I was trying to make is what you see in the post game locker room after a loss, and as you acknowledge not being there Sunday night, but having been there last year after the AFC title game loss, the 2019 playoff loss to Tennessee. And, you know, go down the list of, you know, this era and previous eras, I guess the point I was trying to make for locker clean out day. Yeah, there’s still a disappointment in the air. But these guys also it’s vacation time now for them. They’ve, they’ve, they’ve been on the grind other than the bye week, they’ve been on the grind almost every single day since mid July. So I think guys are still disappointed, but they’re not inconsolable. On locker clean out day, there’s smiles, they’re laughs, they’re guys that are signing things for each other. You see guys taking helmets home. You see guys taking jerseys home. And I guess the point I was trying to make is, well, they’re not over at 100% and these guys will get into the off season and Sunday, when Kansas City is playing Buffalo and when the NFC title games taking place, they’ll be thinking about it. They’ll be thinking about it when the two winning teams convene in New Orleans in a few weeks for the Super Bowl. But life goes on, and these guys have their own lives, and to your point, they’re compensated handsomely. Even guys that are making the minimum are making way more than most of us will ever make in a single year. So, you know? So there is a sense of All right, well, disappointed we lost, but life does slow down a little bit now I’ve been, I can go somewhere warm and get out of bitter cold Baltimore for, well, the
Nestor Aparicio 09:41
Ray Lewis 24 hour rule that he and I, you know, I should ask Ray who’s like, or even Marvin, probably would know, or, you know, any of the guys of that era where the genesis of, where Ray used that all the time 24 hour rule would be real happy for 24 you know, like, and he used to bring that to the barn with me back in. 9697 so it maybe was a Miami thing, I don’t know, you know, like, where it came from, but three generate, you know, three decades later, there’s a 24 hour rule, and there’s also the reality of the off season, which you and I get to and even took in on Monday, which is contracts, who’s staying, who’s going, where the veterans are, where’s the salary cap? Who’s committed, who’s not committed? But the ouch and the sting of all of this, I have found, in my experience of 33 years of doing this semi professionally, that the sting for the fans goes on longer than the sting for the players, in a general sense of whoever’s going to Cancun this week, and whatever you know jokes you made about Mike Tomlin last weekend with golf clubs, and whatever else that you know. The the sting of it is when you run into hardball in Indianapolis five weeks later, he looks at you and me and says, should have lost that game, right? If we were there, we’re not going to be there. We used to be there, but we, we’ve experienced that too, that they replay this ish in their minds. And for for a guy who’s had his own mental anguish in his life, I hope Mark Andrews heals, you know, there’s anything I could say here. I hope that it’s not a Donnie Moore crazy, you know, I hope that whatever he’s, whatever his piece is at this point, that he goes and finds it. Because, you know, man to man, no matter whether you stand up to the press conference, not teammates, whatever, drop the ball. And you know, you didn’t want to drop the ball, and you got to live with it. You know, everybody’s got to live with it. Well.
Luke Jones 11:43
I mean, when you think about the individual and look, I said my piece about this after the game, my general rule of thumb for speaking to the media is when you have a performance that warrants your teammates being asked about it, good or bad. Quite frankly, you should talk. You know, you shouldn’t put it all on your teammates. That said, I think for any of us, when we think about things that we’re good at, you know whether it’s our job, whether it’s something we do, you know that goes beyond work life, but it’s something that’s still important to you. You know, whether it’s something you do recreationally or something you’re involved in, in the community, something you take pride in, right? I mean, I think any of these NFL players at this point, even if they don’t love football, and you and I have encountered players, some players love the game more than others, but they all are invested enough that they’ve gotten to that point. Because you don’t get to the NFL, you don’t stay in the NFL, let’s say, purely on your talents, right? So, but, but think about it through the lens of something that you really care about, something that you’ve accomplished or been accomplished doing, and then you have the worst possible moment on nearly the worst, you know, nearly the biggest stage you can find. I mean, it’s not the AFC Championship game like Lee Evans or Billy cundieff. It’s not the Super Bowl, but divisional round with a team that had Super Bowl aspirations, it’s pretty, pretty darn high in terms of, you know, the intensity that the spotlight and all that so to fail and to fail twice in the way that he did in the fourth quarter. I mean, I do have empathy for that, regardless of media coverage or talking to reporters or not talking to reporters, or any of that. That’s tough at the same time. It’s also what these guys sign up for and for every opportunity that you have to be the hero, to be the one that’s going to be in the spotlight, you know, to to be the the one who’s going to shout, I’m going to Disney World after you win the Super Bowl. I mean, it’s, you know, there’s the other side of it where there is a goat, and, no, we don’t mean the goat, greatest of all time, like we talked about in the modern era,
Nestor Aparicio 13:51
dude, the thrill of victory. Yeah, defeat. So,
Luke Jones 13:55
so, so, you know, I, I think for the rest of the players, 24 hours later. And look, I think the 24 hour rule is just one of those things that just talked about in sports, and, you know, in football, specifically, with it being a once a week proposition, that, you know, it just kind of evolves over time because you can’t dwell on it, because you do have to move on to the next game. But when you get to the last game, and there’s a 24 hour rule, but sure it’s going to linger in these guys minds and they disperse. And I think one of the big talking points with locker Clean Out Day is you have guys in there who probably aren’t going to see each other again, or if they do, it’s going to be very rare, right? I mean, you hear it every year, a team is never going to be together again exactly with the same exact composition, in terms of players, in terms of coaches, staffers, all of that. You know this roster. I don’t think, I don’t expect it to change drastically, but there will be changes. There are every off season, whether you love your roster. You don’t love your roster. So, so there’s some of that at work. So there is a, you know, there’s a last day of school vibe to it where, I mean literally, guys are cleaning out their lockers, or they’re having some of the equipment guys help them out and and stuff. And
Nestor Aparicio 15:14
there are people in there who absolutely know they’re leaving for the last time. No question. I mean, I looked at Brandon Stevens and maybe even leaving the sport, like, literally exiting Brent urban as, you know, I’m thinking some guys that are like, this might be the end for them. And then, unto itself is, you know, walk on eggshells, you know, I’m saying, like, just in a general sense of the emotions, not just of losing and going out and whatever. Yeah, I mean, having spent so much time around these athletes, it is amazing to me how people would think that I am the unrefined, hostile, insensitive guy like it’s that would be insane. I understand it better than you do. You know what I mean, having done this for a billion years. Um, but fans don’t really know that part of it. You know what I mean? They know the glory and and I think even it’s even shined up more by ravens.com or they only show the contract signing when they come in. And here’s the they don’t, they don’t show, literally, the trash bag that’s there most of the time to clean out their stuff. Literally, big, big leaf bag. Big, hefty bag. Yeah,
Luke Jones 16:29
it’s one thing to talk about veteran players, you know, whether you’re talking about Brent urban. I mean, Michael Pierce is under contract for another year. But I also know, having talked to him even a couple years ago, that even at that point he was pondering how much longer he’s going to play. So, so if you’re someone like Michael Pierce, who is on the wrong side of 30, played well this year, but had an injury, weight has always been a challenge. I
Nestor Aparicio 16:53
looked at him the other day, and he just does not look like a healthy man. But what do I know? You know? I mean, no, I just like sort of the body style that he has stands out as something that you don’t see much in the league anymore in that position. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, I just, you
Luke Jones 17:10
know, but my right, but my point, but my point with that. And I was just using him as an example, you know, same. Same applies for a guy that might be in his third year that that’s the 52nd player on the roster. One, is he going to be back with the Ravens? Two, is he going to be anywhere else? Is he going to be playing in the UFL? Is he going to be playing in Canada in a couple years? Is he going to play ever again? I mean, there have been guys like that. I’ve covered guys who played in the league for the ravens, whether it was a training camp in a year on the practice squad or something like that, and then you never hear from them
Nestor Aparicio 17:39
again. It was on the field two weeks ago, right, right.
Luke Jones 17:44
Tony Jefferson was in the press box, you know, watching the AFC title game last year, and was playing in the in the wild card round a year later. So you never know. But yeah, there’s that side of it too, where it’s not just about losing the buffalo, it’s what’s next for my career. So you know, I’m not trying to over dramatize it here. Guys aren’t walking around weepy the next day. Sometimes you’ll see that after the game immediately. But the next day, it’s, you know, it’s subdued. You know, there’s still disappointment. I mean, Patrick McCary is going to be a free agent. You know that he’s grown up as a raven. I mean, he went from being a undrafted free agent that built in for Matt scurra on the 2019 team, and has played all five offensive line positions. I mean, was
Nestor Aparicio 18:32
my favorite ravens like over the course of the history, starting with Mike Flynn all the way through, you know, whether it’s for car these guys that hang around the while. You know what I mean? Kelly Craig, you know what I mean, guys that hung around a little while. Jared Johnson, you know guys that you just don’t they’re here. Levine, you know the guys were here forever, and they’re, you know, their name’s not going on the wall or whatever. No, but I remember McCary specifically filling in in that game out of LA at the LA Memorial Coliseum. He sort of, like debuted and got, you know, made a little name for himself in that period of time. And I think all these years later, we don’t bring his name up as part of the disappointments with Stanley and Humphrey and the other guys. But no, he’s a he’s been here late Ricard, one of those furniture guys. Fred Urban’s been in and out three or four times, right? So, you know some of these guys that they fall in love with it, that stick around, I’d be more likely to think he’d be back right, because they he’s one of their guys. I
Luke Jones 19:37
think, I think the for me, in what capacity are you looking at him to be your starting left guard? Again? Probably not. You know, I think ideally somebody else is going to pay him. Well, I mean, and that’s my big question, is someone else going to pay him, or do you still value him in the role that he had been in the previous three, four years, which is your 60? Offensive lineman who knowing, most years this year being the exception, but most years, your six offensive lineman is probably going to start four or five games over the course of the year, and it’s going to fill in for someone who gets hurt in the midst of a game a couple times, and he can play all five positions on the offensive line. So I think there’s they absolutely would love to have him back. I think he would like to be back, but at what cost, and is another team looking at what he did as a guard, or remembering what he did as a tackle the last couple years and saying, Hey, we have a need. We don’t have the draft capital to go get the offensive lineman we need. Maybe we can pay this guy X amount of money that will be a little bit more than the ravens are willing to pay. I mean, we see that all the time. Or he could be back. I think all things being equal, he’d love to be back. I mean, he knows that, that the ravens, and more specifically, the late Joe Dallas Andrus, but, you know, this organization helped make him into a legitimate NFL player who has had staying power and has made a little bit of money, you know, still life changing money, even if it’s not lucrative in NFL terms. So there’s
Nestor Aparicio 21:02
been a long history of that here, though, you know, I mean growing those kinds of guys in this organization, because the organization remains Steelers. Could say the same thing couple of other organizations, but most places, it’s in and out, you know, because the the the the foundational pieces go in and out. So guys like him get swallowed up. They don’t wind up sticking around. Well,
Luke Jones 21:22
I think it just depends on the organization. I think organizations that, generally speaking, are not good in terms of drafting or developing. No, you won’t find those guys, but the best organizations, the ones that sustain success over time, they value those players. I think, you know, even a team like the Rams, who you know went how many years in a row without having a first round pick and go look at their roster, they still drafted, well, mid to late rounds and developed guys. I mean, you’ll find guys on their roster that were undrafted or six round picks, things like that. I mean, again, any organization worth its salt has to have some of that, otherwise, your roster turnover and turn is just outrageous every year, and you’re way up against the cap, and you’re probably not very good, and you’re probably picking a new head coach in GM every two or three years. So you know. And we’re seeing that right now as I kind of laugh at some of these teams that feels like they’re interviewing every head coaching candidate. Under the sun at this point. But, well,
Nestor Aparicio 22:23
hey, the Ravens might have a different offensive coordinator by the good week, right? Like, I mean, look what happened to Lyons that, you know, it’s over for them, right? So the names are coming off the board a little bit. I mean, monk is not getting the bears job,
Luke Jones 22:33
yeah. I mean, I if you’re asking me to yes or no, is Todd Monken going to get hired elsewhere? My gut tells me no. But, I mean, as long as there are jobs open and jobs that he’s interviewed for, you never know. So that’s part of waiting for the dust to settle. I mean, it’s and again, the finality of the end of the season. You know it it hurts. But I think on Monday for locker clean out. It’s more of a sigh, rather than a blank look on your face. You know, there’s a sigh. And then they get into it, and they get a little more reflective. You know, Patrick Ricard talked at length at his locker. He’s going to be a free agent. I don’t think there’s any reason to think he won’t be back, because I you know, he’s hit the market before, and I think there’s a very limited number of teams out there that value the skill set that he has brought to the Baltimore Ravens, they just don’t play that way.
Nestor Aparicio 23:27
I think they’d like to come back and have him slobber knock Erica. I think they’ll bring this thing together as close of a unit as they can. Because, as Aaron Schatz will point out, I had Mike tenier coming on this week. Greg co sells on this week. Just because they didn’t win on Sunday doesn’t mean that it’s broken. No,
Luke Jones 23:47
well, and that’s, you know, that’s the beauty of it, but that’s also the curse of it, right? I mean, it’s, you look at the roster and, yeah, we can, I could go down the list right now, they’re gonna need a backup quarterback. Is Josh? Josh Johnson’s what, 38 years old now? Is he going to come back again? Or, you know, are you Devin Leary, you drafted last year? He’s on the practice squad? Well,
Nestor Aparicio 24:05
I was going to ask you, because this is when they get together down in Jupiter. Eric flies down there, and Steve smokes cigars, and they sit out on the veranda where the weather’s nice. And they literally do go position by position, right? Not just what’s on the field, but that what we have coming. What’s in the draft? You know, where’s the free agent pipeline? What does coquinas think of the pro person like all the way through they do that, where in your mind are they going to improve? Because as I look at it, there’s a handful of five or six spots always pass rush, offensive line depth, he’s going to play guard. I mean, really, not a whole lot of different questions that we had last off season. I mean, last off season, it was like, who’s going to run the ball and they solve that problem? So and who’s going to be the wide receivers? Well, it’s going to be Bateman and flowers. I mean, you’ll say they need another one in an Aguilar or whatever, but they’re looking for big parts here, and I don’t. Think this isn’t like a huge team meeting in the off season about where they’re going. They don’t have the huge question marks that a lot of other organizations are going to have. No I
Luke Jones 25:09
mean, I and that’s part of, like I said, it’s the beauty of it, but it’s also the the curse of it, because what do you need to do to break through, right? I mean, what does need to change? You know, what? What can we do to get over the hump that maybe we overlooked? And I, you know, I, I think it’s so simplistic to try to, to try to do that, you know, to think you want to do that. But, you know, it goes back to, can’t have three turnovers. You can’t drop passes. And these weren’t things that they did over the course of the season. So how do you anticipate it? I mean, you know, I, I you, and I’ve talked about John Harbaugh. I don’t I see some of the, some of the residue from fans talking about the coaching and just hammering certain things here or there. And I’m just like, I mean, what? What about the coaching staff told Lamar Jackson to turn it over twice, and Lamar would be the first to tell you that, right? What about the coaching staff made you anticipate that Mark Andrews was going to have two bad drops and fumble the ball. I mean, these aren’t things that these guys do on a weekly basis, right? So I’ll hear you. To say it’s nit picking, because it’s not, because I think there was fair questions about not giving the ball to Derek Henry on second and goal from the three, for example, when they had to settle for the field goal in the first half, or not motioning them out of the backfield on the first two point conversion try, or giving just giving him the ball on the two point conversion, rather than throwing it to mark Andrews. But again, all of those are judgments based on the resolve, right in terms of process, I think most of the decisions that you saw over the course of the game were
26:55
you could defend. I mean, it wasn’t like six carries only running the ball. How many times with your running backs to against Kansas City last year, and they averaged over seven yards per play. So there wasn’t this difficulty moving the football over the course of the night. They moved they didn’t punt once. We
Nestor Aparicio 27:13
always knew if they could move the ball, they moved the hell out of so here against buffalo, we just knew on an icy night, all we talked about last week’s turnovers, turnovers, take care of the ball, and if you don’t, you’re gonna lose. And they did. I mean, like, literally,
Luke Jones 27:27
and, and, and you can say, Okay, well, it was cold, or the ball was a little bit slick. Buffalo didn’t turn it over, you know, and, and, not that we checked the air pressure. I’m not, I’m not, I’m not picking on Lamar and saying that specifically. I mean, Lamar played a great second half. You know, he he was an A minus quarterback in the second half. Problem was with the turnovers. He was a c minus quarterback in the first half. What does that average out to about a b minus b? Kind of performance? Well, Josh Allen didn’t do anything spectacular. Lamar outperformed him every other statistical way, but like Patrick mahomes, last year, he played a safe, clean football game. And you know that that’s the part of it that’s kind of tough, because you don’t want to coach out the things that make Lamar special at the same time in the playoffs, specifically, when the elements aren’t as ideal. And it’s not as though the the AFC Championship game last year, you know, it was cold in Baltimore, but it wasn’t as cold as it was against Houston the previous week. But you know that there’s something to be said of maybe being a little more boring at times in terms of just taking care of the football. I mean, that’s it’s kind of what Patrick mahomes and Josh Allen have done against the Ravens the last couple years in the playoffs. You know, they, they were kind of boring, and they took care of the ball. They were efficient, you know, they cashed in in the red zone. You know, they they converted on third down when they needed to. So it’s not like they didn’t do anything, but they very those teams, those offenses, very clearly prioritized playing clean, mistake free football, and they were able to do it, whereas the Ravens for as well as they moved the ball, you know, and even against Kansas City last year, it’s not as though they didn’t move the ball at all, but They had costly turnovers and costly mistakes, and
Nestor Aparicio 29:22
it’s just it’s even worse on the stat sheet, when you move the ball 80 yards and fumbling at the five, likes a flat, you know, like, then it looks on the five that was at the one foot line, right? I mean, fair enough, right? But, yeah. But in the case of Russell Wilson driving down on the ravens and kicking the ball around on Christmas Day at the at the five yard line, when our our Darius Washington punched so like, these long drives get completely nullified by the turnover part of it. And even worse, it’s say, well, Lamar turned the ball over. Or no, hold on, Lamar fumbled. Well, okay, did he fall on it? No, the other team got the ball. Yeah. Oh, that’s. Bad. That’s a turnover. Now, the O team got the ball and they picked it up and they ran 40, you know, like, there’s a whole different level of what a turnover is in one of those kind of games, when you say we missed the field goal, was it a 56 yard field goal as time expired at halftime, or was it a 35 yard field goal with the game on the line? Like, I, I mean, all of that on the statistics chart doesn’t mean anything other than did who made the most mistakes. Mistakes are the most important part of the statistic chart, especially in these games, when they they turn, not just the feel when they turn the scoreboard.
Luke Jones 30:36
No question. And again, that was my point about the stat sheet. I mean, they had 23 first downs compared to 20 for Buffalo. Now, Buffalo ran a couple more plays than the Ravens did over the course of the night. Ravens, seven of 10 on third down, buffalo, five of 11/4 down. Both teams were one for one. Red Zone. Ravens were two for three. I mean, you’d like to cash in, but two for three is not heinous, you know, it’s not as though it’s disgraceful or
Nestor Aparicio 31:00
anything like, you know, kick the ball around. Maybe you get there four or five times, I don’t know, well, and
Luke Jones 31:04
that’s and that’s the thing. And even, even talking about Lamar, two turnovers in the first half. The fumble was extremely costly. The interception, Buffalo punted, they cost, cost him some field position, but it’s the opportunity cost that’s lost there, right? You had a chance to score there. That’s a possession that is so precious, especially in a playoff game, that you know when that happens, you know it hurts. You know it’s not insurmountable. And the fact that this team even had a chance on the final drive until Mark Andrews drops the two point conversion, the fact that they had that opportunity despite being minus three in the turnover department. Doesn’t that speak to how well they played otherwise, you know? So, you know, I’m not still four
Nestor Aparicio 31:46
downs and 10 yards, and they were averaging seven yards of play. So if you take downs away with interceptions or whatever, yards away and stupid penalties, and they managed to avoid, I mean, a lot of the sins they had turnovers was something they didn’t have a problem with. Penalties, was the thing they had the problem with right and defensive breakdowns or something they had the problem with. They didn’t have those problems. They had the problem with turnovers in this game. Specifically, what outed them, all
Luke Jones 32:13
those, all those, specifically in the penalty department, the white pass interference call, which I didn’t like, you know, I think, right? I don’t think that was a great call, and that cost the Ravens four points there, potentially, right? Or maybe seven, you know, if Tyler bass misses the field goal, because it would have been fourth down. So, but these are the things that happen over the course of 60 minutes, and that right there. Okay, that’s out of your control. That’s why you can’t turn the ball over three times, right? I mean, turnovers, you’re always going to have some culpability and and let’s be clear on lamar’s fumble, Tyler linderbaum deserves part of the blame for that. You know, that was a bad snap. It it gummed up the timing of the play, and then Lamar should have just tucked it away and lived to fight another play, but he tried to do what Lamar does over the course of a full season that makes him so special. I mean, think about his play in Cincinnati this year, but where, you know the the play where Sam Hubbard drops to his knees after Do you remember how that play started out? It was a it was a bad snap at the start of the play. So
Nestor Aparicio 33:12
think about what you could do with your car. And my car, we have normal cars out on the road. And think about if you had a Lamborghini or you had a car that went zero to a buck 20 in three seconds. And you had that kind of car, and then you try to drive it in the snow, yeah, you know. So you think about him being that kind of car, whatever that you know, if you’re Todd Ted Nugent, fan of Maserati, if you wish to get some old rock and roll songs your way. But you know, he drives fast and out in the snow. You know, PK, the foot doesn’t like literally, and there’s a part of that that we try to drive a little slower in the snow. I don’t, I don’t know how you coach that in the locker room in Buffalo on Sunday night because there’s only one speed, but the ball’s not going to react in the same way. Just not. I mean, you did see that it’s
Luke Jones 34:09
not. But I also do want to acknowledge, I will say this, and this isn’t going to make anyone feel better in the moment, because the sting is still, it’s, it’s raw, you know, it’s raw for the players, even, even, in fact, we’ve just spent some time talking about how they go on to their lives. And it’s vacation time for for these guys,
Nestor Aparicio 34:27
as they should, by the way, as they should, they gave an honest effort, including Mark Andrews. Everybody gave a real effort and gave them a chance to win, you
Luke Jones 34:37
know. And that brings me back to another theme from maku clean out day. I you’ll hear this quote a few times from a few different players. There’s only going to be one team happy in a couple weeks, you know? I mean, even the team that gets to the Super Bowl and loses is they’re going to be more devastated, because it’s
Nestor Aparicio 34:53
not buffalo at this point that let them win, please, dear God, let them win, right? I
Luke Jones 34:59
hear. It at the same time. Then it’s, now, it’s Patrick mahomes and Josh Allen. I mean, the one, yeah, the
Nestor Aparicio 35:05
worst part for the bills, he might win this week and then lose the Super Bowl is buffalo or Washington, well, or they might just lose this week. I mean, Washington, Philadelphia. I meant, oh, okay, no. But the point,
Luke Jones 35:17
you just said it. And I thought that was one of the, you know, one of the more interesting elements of the Josh Allen Lamar Jackson showdown narrative, in terms of people kept talking about this being such a big legacy game, I don’t think it is, unless whoever won goes on to beat Patrick mahomes. If, if buffalo loses on Sunday, how is Josh? Okay? He has a head to head win against Lamar in January. I’ll hear that to a point, but it’s still not getting to the Super Bowl, almost not winning
Nestor Aparicio 35:47
Sunday, right, right? I mean, I don’t know going to win.
Luke Jones 35:52
I mean, this is, you know, the
Nestor Aparicio 35:54
Kansas City den of witches. I mean, I you know, it’s going to send the Blitz in on the you know, and nobody’s gonna pick it up. We’re gonna get a call that everyone’s gonna be mad about Paul’s gonna go up in the air, you know. I mean, you know, and Josh Allen’s gonna be God’s like, by the way, the weather’s supposed to be okay on Sunday. So, yeah,
Luke Jones 36:11
no, but, but I, and I was, I was guilty of this, going off on this tangent. But the point I was making about Lamar, one thing I do want to acknowledge, he has played better the last two years in the postseason than what we saw earlier in his career. Go back and watch that Buffalo game back in 20 the COVID year, their offense couldn’t do anything right. They the offense moved the ball at will on Saturday or Sunday at times. You know, Buffalo did a good job stopping Derek Henry in the first half. But when, when it’s all said and done, the Ravens ran for 176 yards. They averaged 5.9 yards per carry. You know, hearing people say, give the ball to Derrick Henry, way more than they did. I’ll hear that in a couple spots, like I said at the goal line two point conversion. I’ll hear that, you know, that’s, that’s constructive criticism there. You know, that’s, that’s but, but I still think that’s closer to a nitpick than something egregious. Because, okay, Derek Henry, 16 carries for 84 yards. Are you saying Justice Hill shouldn’t have carried the ball as much well, hit 50 yards on six carries. He averaged 8.3 yards per carry. You know? Lamar,
8Nestor Aparicio 37:14
yeah, he’s a change of pace that’s still getting you eight yards on first you know, I heard
37:18
some people talk about the fact, you know, some people have talked about the fact that they didn’t run a whole lot of zone. Run a whole lot of zone read. I think the elements had something to do with that. You know, that the mesh point stuff we talk about how you have to be careful with that, even with perfect conditions,
Nestor Aparicio 37:30
always. So, you know, like having their season blow up on a mesh point fumble, yeah, it would open the door for a guy like me on Monday morning to say, oh my god, this is why I didn’t love the option, because it really was the reason why I didn’t love it. And again, I go back to Lamar and him doing things that only he can do, that you can’t do in the snow and the ice, because the car doesn’t go at that speed, yeah,
38:01
but, but that’s why I did want to make the point he’s played better the last two postseasons. It’s still not full, you know, full MVP Lamar for 60 minutes. I mean, we saw that for 30 minutes on there
Nestor Aparicio 38:12
is a part where the ice nullifies his game because there are things that they’re not, that they’re not willing or capable or good for them to do because of ball security in a game like that, right? I mean, and that’s not even saying Lamar gets cold. He doesn’t like the cold weather, yeah, nobody likes any of that. I was just gonna hear that Josh Allen may be a little bit more in tune with it, playing there and practicing there and living there when the leaves change in September and like, I know all of that. I think my wife’s different just being from New Hampshire, because she’s like from New Hampshire, and she seven degrees in Towson as we take this. So, you know, cold is it affects everybody, and certainly kids from South Florida differently, as well as kids of kids from Venezuela. But there is a point where the game becomes different this time of year. And you know, your team needs to be built differently. And they were, that’s what Derek Henry was all about. That’s what running the ball was all about. And to me, they could have run it more. They could have done a little more razzle dazzle. Lamar, I was going to say I didn’t see as much of that. And to your point, you tell me why, because they didn’t want to kick the ball around. Because if you do that 24 times a game and you’re playing that game, it only takes one and only to one bad snap. It only took Lamar trying to make a play one time on their own side of the field, no less, not at the 10 yard line or whatever. Um, where there? You know, it’s a real security hazard when you’re backed up against your goal line. You know, I’m not going to replay the game a million times. I mean, I’m comfortable that it played out the way it played out in that they did all they could do. They were not the lesser team. They were the team that made bigger mistakes.
Luke Jones 39:53
Yeah, I you, you should, I mean, you should trademark that right there. I should have a radio show. You know, they, they. Uh, they, in a lot of ways, play better than buffalo, except in one of the most important elements, week in and week out. In the National Football League, go look at the statistics when you’re a minus two or worse. Go look at what the winning percentage is. And get back to me. I mean, it’s, you know, it’s out there. I mean, that’s, it’s why taking care of the football so important their game plan. You know, to sit here and nitpick about their game plan, they average almost six yards of carry collectively, it is a team game. It’s not fantasy football to get Derek Henry a certain number of carries or Lamar to throw at a certain number of times, but they average six yards of carry check and Lamar Jackson averaged 10.2 yards per attempt passing. So what they did worked. They moved the ball at will. They they still had a chance if Mark Andrews catches the ball, how about Mark Andrews doesn’t fumble on the Pen Ultimate drive? I mean, they they probably win that football game if that doesn’t happen, let alone bringing it down to the the final two point play to try to force overtime. So, you know, and and everything about the mesh point, you know, I think there’s absolute validity to that in terms of why we didn’t see that as much. But we also saw, you know, a bad shotgun snap, and then Lamar mishandles the ball, I mean, and there was, you know, that wasn’t a mesh point issue. That was just, you know, Linder bomb snapped the ball to the left, a little bit too much to the left, and it just gummed up the play. And the more even
Nestor Aparicio 41:24
known all along, since they started losing games back in October, that they were going to have to go on the road on a and it’s a nightmare thing, right? Like, what’s your worst nightmare? 15, snowing a little bit in Buffalo. Let me be worse is snowing a lot, a bit in Philadelphia, you you know in the second quarter of that game when, you know, rams are running around and like, what’s going on? Like, man, the snow changes when it came, when it started falling. I was making Coco in the basement. I said to my wife, man, the boys and I used to get out here and throw the football on a snowy day. It was the most fun ever. And we die because it’s everything that’s a nightmare professionally for all of these teams that train in the spring train in the summer, we got the best team. Look at how good looking we get coming off the bus. And then it comes down to Can my center snap on a 15 degree night in the ice has nothing to do with what happens in August out there when you’re sweating your nuts off that when it comes time to it, when you have to go to Buffalo, it’s different if Miami is the one seed or if it’s a dome team. And we went through that with Peyton Manning, having to play some of these games. I was up in New England watching Peyton Manning. I had soak Leon last week. They got their ass kicked in the snow up in New England when I first got married 20 years ago. They could never figure that out. Try. You know, dome teams were different. Good conditions are different. The Ravens would be, I mean, if the Falcons had signed Lamar and could win games and win 14 games and get all the games inside their place, they they’re Kurt Warner, you know what? I mean, that’s not what they signed up for. And no matter what, that’s going to be this, it was snowing here on Sunday, you know? So, yeah, I mean, that’s
Luke Jones 42:58
and that’s what, yeah, and that’s where that that greater point. I’m less moved by that because
Nestor Aparicio 43:03
we’ve been the number one with big hands. Remember that one? I’m just right but, but
Luke Jones 43:06
they’ve been the number one seed. They’ve had home field. They played in really cold weather this time of year, 2019 against the Titans. You remember how warm it was that night? I mean, it was like 60 degrees in January for that game. So, and they’ve turned the ball over in all those environments so, so really, it goes back to what I mentioned to you, as we did some of our more immediate post game reaction when you’re talking about the nine playoff games that they’ve played, and that’s including the Tyler Huntley game, but I’m just throwing it in there, you know, I could take it out if you want, but the same point prevails in those nine playoff Games. They’ve turned it over 16 times, and they have three takeaways. So they haven’t been nearly as careful with the football as they need, as they’ve needed to be. And you can either you can spin it one of two ways. You’d like your defense to be a little more dynamic, to try to create a couple more turnovers. That might may have helped, you know, and I’m reminded of this because we see this comparison a lot now, because Lamar is at the point in his career that Peyton Manning was at this point, and it had all this regular season success and been an MVP and all this, and had no Super Bowls. Go look at Peyton Manning’s numbers during the 2006 postseason, when they finally break through. As unremarkable as it gets, but his defense made big plays. And, you know, running games, it’s a collective effort, that’s my point. But when you’re minus 13 in the turnover department in your nine playoff games, and you know, if you want to take away the Tyler Huntley game, you’re minus 12 in the eight Lamar starts in the playoffs since 2018
Nestor Aparicio 44:42
I tell you probably three and five. You got to change that.
Luke Jones 44:45
I mean, and again, this is where it’s a collective effort. It’s Lamar is the headliner because he’s the quarterback, and he’s making $52 million and he’s the first to tell you that I admire, and I really respect Lamar accountability after the game. You know, I mean, he was asked about Andrews, but. He said, Hey, I dropped the ball. I threw a bad interception. I’m tired of doing these things. I got to take better care of the football, you know, I, I respect the fact that he, you know, he faced the music and was very critical of himself. He was more critical of himself than fans have been, you know, some fans want to defend everything he does. And obviously you have the fans who, you know, act like the guy stinks, which is crazy, you know, because the guy’s an amazing future Hall of Fame talent. I mean, that’s what we’re talking about. He’s going to be taking another MVP,
Nestor Aparicio 45:27
much like Flacco. He did everything he could do to win the game, like when I think about Flacco in the Cundiff game, right?
Luke Jones 45:33
But, but it’s, but it’s a collective effort, right? I mean, over the course of of these nine, you know, these eight playoff law, you know, not all eight losses, but these eight playoff games, they haven’t taken the ball away very much on defense. Even though the defense has been the much better side of the ball overall, it hasn’t been dynamic. You think back to 2000 that defense made dynamic plays. The 2012 defense, it wasn’t nearly as good, especially in the regular 2000
Nestor Aparicio 45:58
Super Bowl, was one on defensive takeaways, period. But
Luke Jones 46:02
even in 2012 with, you know, and obviously the headliner was Flacco doing what he did. Go look at what that defense did, even in the Denver game where they gave up points, they also were dynamic. Corey Graham had a two picks of Peyton Manning, for example, Jacoby Jones doing the things that he did from a special team standpoint, you know? So, yeah, so, so you need
Nestor Aparicio 46:23
every element, Justin Tucker doing things from special team standpoint. Yeah,
Luke Jones 46:27
you need, you need all three phases to contribute. And what we’ve seen over the course of this Lamar era is an offense that’s severely underperformed, primarily because of turnovers, a defense that’s played well in holding the opposition down, however, not necessarily being dynamic enough to swing the wind. Probability, you know, a turnover in the second half at some point, forcing John or Josh Allen into a mistake, or stripping the ball from one of their backs. Man that really would have, would have gone a long way towards helping this team win. It didn’t happen, and it’s a credit to Buffalo. They took care of the ball, you know, a big special teams play. Instead, they had the critical Chris board holding penalty on a kick return, you know. So Tucker didn’t miss any kicks. That was good. But you just look at it. Last year wasn’t just Lamar zay flowers with the mistakes that he made, obviously, Mark Andrews with what happened multiple plays on Sunday night. You need your stars to be stars. And unfortunately for the ravens, They haven’t always gotten that in this era, and that’s why they have fallen short in January, but you have a window that is wide open with a 28 year old quarterback who’s about to become a three time NFL MVP. He has played better in the postseason the last couple years than he did earlier in his career. So you’re hoping that there’s a trajectory there that is continuing to go up, right? I mean, you’re hoping that you break through. There’s really no other choice here. You’re not moving on from Lamar Jackson. You’d be insane to do it. So the hope is that your amazing MVP quarterback, who has been the best player in the NFL in the regular season the last couple years, continues to mature, continues to grow. The players around him continue to mature, continue to grow. And you break through. It’s not, it’s not any more complex than that. I mean, the other team tries to and unfortunately, the Ravens have been on the on the wrong side of that. And you know, going to Buffalo and losing it’s no shame in it. You know, this, this wasn’t if they had lost to Pittsburgh last week, that’s where we would have been to me, that’s where we would have been talking, you know, is John Harbaugh, the right guy for this. You know, do they need to make other changes? What the heck’s going on here? How can you lose to a Pittsburgh team that’s clearly not as good as you we could sit here and debate whether the Ravens were the better team than buffalo. I think roster wise, top to bottom, I’d take the Ravens roster over buffaloes. But this isn’t the best team in the league, losing to the worst team in the league or losing to the 16th best team in the league. These were two top five teams in my mind, and the one who had the home field advantage and the one who had a quarterback that didn’t turn the ball over, compared to the MVP quarterback who turned it over a couple times, and they didn’t have one of their other star players turn it over and drop two passes in the way that Mark Andrews did? You know, I mean, it’s someone was going to be disappointed at the end of the day on Sunday night, and unfortunately, it’s the Ravens. But I, I don’t think that’s something that warrants overreacting or doing something rash, right? I don’t think you want to be hasty here in terms of making these, you know, calling for wholesale changes for something that there
Nestor Aparicio 49:54
are top three organization in the league at this point, like, you know, like it’s an opera. Situation that isn’t broken, that just everyone wants to break through. Buffalo, yeah, I mean, I mean, everyone wants to break through. And again, that’s 25 other teams and general managers that would take their roster right now. 25 maybe 30. I was going
Luke Jones 50:11
to say it might be more like 28 right? That’s what we’re talking about right now. So and, and no one would take, you know Patrick mahomes over Lamar, okay, I’ll hear that because of what he’s done in January. He’s Tom Brady, but, you know what? Not skill set wise, but Lamar has been Peyton Manning of this era. I mean, that’s what we’re talking about right now. So Peyton Manning eventually broke through, and that’s where you just have to go back to the drawing board and tweak and try to Drew Brees
Nestor Aparicio 50:39
one, Aaron Rodgers won, Ben Roethlisberger won, Joe Flacco won, like so you say, Tom Brody, Tom Brody, they all
50:47
won. And those guys, you those guys, you all mentioned they won once, Joe Flacco, once, Ben Roethlisberger, twice, I’ll give that to Ben Peyton Manning won two. But was he directly responsible for either of those? Didn’t
Nestor Aparicio 51:03
even mention Eli. And he’s up for Hall of Fame in two weeks, and I have Howard balls are on this week. So we talking some Hall of Fame. Um, let’s talk baseball, man. I mean, it’s baseball season now officially, right? Really?
Luke Jones 51:15
Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll leave it at this. It’s really, really hard to do it doesn’t excuse anyone. It doesn’t make anyone feel better. I get all of that, but
Nestor Aparicio 51:24
Brandon Stokely held the Super Bowl ticket up, and he’s like, I played 15 years twice. It happened. I played with Peyton Manning, and it Ray Lewis, and it only happens. So, like, you know what I mean, like, and that’s a guy that hung around forever and had two chances at it, right?
Luke Jones 51:40
Yeah. Ed Reed is one of the greatest football players in the history of the League. He finally got one in his last year with the ravens, his next last year in the NFL. Well, it’s
Nestor Aparicio 51:50
your own better same thing, right? There’s a lot of people that takes forever, right? All right, including Earl moral. Um, that is the moral of the story. Um, that would even the moral of the story be Peyton Manning winning at the end of the end of the end and and Tom Brady going to Tampa and winning too, which is another thing altogether. Although I think, you know, drugs and error were involved there. Luke Jones is here as well as TB 12 and avocado ice cream, though that’s what makes me look so young is the avocado ice cream. It’s all that I’m eating. And the crab cakes. Maryland crab cake tours back out on the road a cup of Super Bowl coming to your hometown. We’re going to be Costas. We’re going to be failing these we’re going to be Cocos. Are going to be state fair. We’re going to be Cooper’s north. Patrick Russell, don’t know it yet, but we’re coming, and at some point, probably today, because it’s a little snowy out and cold out, I will cancel my New Orleans reservations. Sure you don’t want to go Luke. I mean, I was thinking, like, before I canceled Kansas City, my wife’s like, you sure you just don’t want to go and get the barbecue and hang out, you know what? I mean, like, and I’m like, I was thinking about it. And I’m thinking, like, wouldn’t be a bad time, you know, he is Luke. I am Nestor. I promise we’ll start talking baseball at some point, and then you’ll really hate us. We are wnsta in 1570 towns in Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore positive. Go to the website. Read our stuff, too. You.
