When the bats go silent not even miraculous efforts by Albert Suarez can save the Orioles. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the bullpen issues and depth of the starting pitching of the Birds as they return home and attempt to stay atop the American League East standings.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
bullpen, craig kimbrel, suarez, pitch, pitching, runs, orioles, baseball, ball, year, yankees, hit, team, playing, talking, sunday, rodriguez, point, sit, week
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, n, s, t te, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we we inch closer to the beginning of the regular season. We certainly have inched closer to a home stand. We got that going on right now. I am wearing my curio Oriole orange with the birds who make sure youโre supporting them, and our 26th anniversary oyster tour, that begins in about three weeks. Iโm not eating any oyster. Iโm going Ocean City this week, doing Mako. Iโm not eating any oysters. Iโm not eating any oysters next Friday, when I get together with Luke, when the cheatstros come to town, we will be promoting the Maryland lottery, the Gold Rush, sevens, doublers, giving these out. But might be the last time you see these, because the Raven scratch offs launch this week. So John Martin will be telling me about it down at Mako limited pure solutions, making my water crystal clear. Royal farms, powering up our coffee around here, as well as Jiffy Lube, multi care, sending Luke back and forth. I think I have a new title for you. Iโve been thinking of rebranding things here weโre gonna change the cupcake. You know, with AI, I can make like a crab holding an oyster with a 26 candle. Like thereโs crazy stuff I can do with AI. So weโre gonna do like a 26th anniversary thing. But I think Iโm gonna nickname you my favorite Baltimore sports reporter. Is that okay if I say that? So Luke Jones, my favorite Baltimore sports reporter, real Baltimore sports reporter, how are you? Man, youโre ready for baseball, football. The overlap I do mention out loud, because I need to. Youโre the only accredited media member, so covering both teams, itโs, you know, like you have some long days ahead here this week into next week, Iโm going to be down in Ocean City, speaking to Senator Ben Cardin, speaking to Senator Van Hollen, speaking to anybody that wants to sit on the set with me in Ocean City this week. And you know, this is as busy as crazy Ravens have injuries concerns and the Orioles man, I felt like a chump Sunday morning, bro, when I woke up. And Iโm like, our headline on the website is, like, weโre worried about their pitching? Well, weโre worried about I donโt think thereโs anything thatโs going to make us not worried about their pitching, other than pitching better. And I donโt mean Suarez, I mean or effalin, I mean some of the rest of them. Well,
Luke Jones 02:11
Iโm going to tell you what I told you last week and what I wrote at Baltimore positive.com last week. Their offense needs to do the heavy lifting. That was shaping up to be a three game sweep down at the trop, and they scored one run on Sunday. So we can complain about Brandon Hyde taking out Albert Suarez, maybe a batter early. We can complain about bullpen moves here or there, but at some point in time, we know what this is. Theyโre pitching as issues. Of course, itโs going to with all the injuries that theyโve had. And look, I want it to get better. Certain guys can get better. No question about that. Craig Kimbrel and you know is Sir Anthony Dominguez going to become the closer. Is is going to become the closer? Whatโs going to happen with Kimbrel after another bad outing on Sunday? I get all of that, but they scored one stinking run on Sunday. Youโre not going to win games when you score one run. This team is not constructed to win like that at this point, no team is,
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:03
I mean, I mean, if you have the 97 Braves were constructed to win one, nothing,
Luke Jones 03:08
right? But the point is, I mean, weโve talked about this. I mean, theyโre not constructed to win two to one or three to two most nights. I mean, if Burns is pitching, sure, hey, Zach efland, another great outing for him on Friday night, heโs been everything they could have asked for. So you have two starting pitchers that you feel good to grade about, and tip of the cap to Albert Suarez, for as much as guys like us have continued to talk about upgrading and moving him to the bullpen, while heโs been much better than Dean Kramer, heโs been better than Trevor Rogers since Trevor Rogers arrived. Better
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:41
than covid Yeah, better than, better than Kate povidish, better. Sure. Sure, all of them, right.
Luke Jones 03:47
I mean, right now with Grayson Rodriguez on the IL, I mean, Albert Soros is their number three starter.
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:53
Start Game three and weโre down. Oh, two coming home. He had to start game three at Camden Yards. Iโd be okay with that. I think heโs got some Bulldog in him. I think heโs got some, some five innings, you know, magic in him in October. I do. I, you know, I, I will go in on him, such as, because heโs Venezuelan, because Iโm just as you know, quick to point out that, you know, the I used to call him the kid, because he looks like heโs two feet tall, but the cheaters from the Astros, whoโs also Venezuelan. So Iโm not just all in on the Venezuelan thing, but I am all in on what, the middle of August in a big game, on a Sunday, when theyโre giving them the ball again, when everybody in the world thinks heโs headed to the bullpen and whatever, he comes back out and says, maybe not. And thatโs kind of fun. Thatโs That all being said. They lost the game, which sucks.
Luke Jones 04:45
I mean, Nestor, I canโt sit here and say that. I feel confident if Albert Suarez is their game three starter, but I mean, this is just where they are right now, and obviously Grayson Rodriguez, the hope is heโs going to be back before the end of the season. Season, and Mike Elias confirmed that over the weekend. Doesnโt sound like itโll be Labor Day, but hopefully by, letโs say, mid September, because you also donโt want to just be bringing him back and oh, youโre starting a playoff game after you havenโt pitched in a game that matters in six weeks. So itโs not ideal, but of their options available to them right now, which is all they have, right? I mean, you canโt trade for more pitching, or go out and sign a pitcher of consequence, or anything like that. Albert Suarez is the best that they have behind Corbin burns and Zach Eflin. So hats off to him. I do continue to wonder, and I think you and I think you and I talked about this three, four weeks ago, at some point in time, when you consider the pitching that he did over the winter and where he is now and where his career has gone, you do have to at least ask the question, is he going to run out of gas at some point? But he certainly didnโt look that way on Sunday. So it was great to see him do what he did. Unfortunately, Anthony Santander is home run aside, they didnโt do anything for him offensively. And again, this team, as theyโre currently constructed, they need their offense to show up every night, and if they donโt, theyโre probably going to lose because, again, theyโre just not a team that youโre going to look at that bullpen and say, Oh yeah, one, nothing or or two to one, thatโs not going to turn out that way, in a way that youโre feeling overly confident theyโre going to get the job done. And weโve seen that bear out time and time again. So Iโll continue to say it, if they donโt swing the bats, if they donโt hit the ball, if they donโt score runs, itโs going to be extremely different difficult for them to win most nights.
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:39
Weโll get to the bullpen in a minute. How about that? How about since you went down this river, Iโll do the high decisions on 95 pitches. Iโll do Perez and where he is, and I donโt think we call him sir. Anthony more, just sir, just sir. Itโs kind of like the peanuts, like a peppermint patty, sir, the hitting and taking pitches, swinging the bad pitches. Coby Mayo kind of in over his head so far. But theyโre timid, maybe even to put him out there a little bit little time off here, you know, get the little downtime. I mean, I said to my wife last week when they had a day off, Iโm like, they donโt get days off. They donโt they donโt give them days off. They just play 162 in a row. You know, when it rains, they make it up tomorrow, but they, you know, a little time off, but home, home cooking this week. The amazing part of all of it was they still woke up Sunday morning in first place despite Phillies guardians, Yankees pick any of these teams, cheatstros are coming in here next week. Um, theyโve still been better than any of the rest of them over the whole of it. But the thing I keep pointing out, and the thing that Iโll keep pointing out, theyโre a different team than they were at the All Star break. And to your point, if theyโre going to win the World Series, itโs going to be because of rushman, Henderson, Santander, all the guys are playing the All Star Game burns. You know, itโll be those guys that will be the difference makers, but these other spare parts and for Elias to be picking up heat about um Sotoโs failures, or the fact that Rogers isnโt what anybody else may have thought he was going to be, but under team control, as they keep saying, we can fix him. We can make him better. Heโs the Steve Austin of their of their projects, but hitting the ball and the Menace is okay. They picked him up. But these are different at bats in different circumstances, in different ways. And Austin Hayes is gone, and you know, Connor norbyโs not coming back, and Jordan Westbrook is unavailable, and we can go down the list and say, whatโs out there right now is this 105 win team, maybe not, certainly not with the rotation without Rodriguez, right? Like I donโt know what they are the next six weeks, but they are a diminished version of what we perceive them to be, what we wanted them to be, and how we all thought that the pitching needed to be the strength, because thatโs what Earl Weaver told us, right? I mean, the pitching has to be the strength in October for this to work. You know, Iโll buy that until I donโt see it. But thereโs a point with these bats where approaches moving runners solo home runs for home run riches, too many of those and and not getting runners on and not hitting when you got runners and scorpses. So thereโs just some thereโs some things weโre seeing that youโll say, well, over the season, theyโre blank, no, no, no. What have they been the last month? Because theyโre a different team. Now theyโre different lineup. Now itโs like when I see people comparing the Orioles all time series with the black I donโt care about what happened 2009 I donโt even care about what happened in April. Itโs this is different now, and Iโm measuring them for what they are, not for what they used to be, or what the potential was with Bradish, or whatever. Iโm trying to figure out who these guys are and what they can do in the offense to to. Tweak some things to get to not be looking to hit home runs, hitting five home runs and scoring eight runs and win an eight to four. I
Luke Jones 10:08
mean, I hear what youโre saying. Tell me what great offenses in baseball donโt hit home runs, though. You know what I mean, like, itโs such a baked in huge part of the game. And Iโll continue to point to look at how many home runs the Rangers hit in October last year. I mean, I, I donโt. I reject the notion that home runs arenโt a big part of how you win in October. I think it absolutely is. I think itโs more so than ever. That said your points well taken. Look this offense is still one of the very best in baseball. And if people want to sit here and just yell at the moon that itโs not then I just donโt know what to tell you, because when you just look at the numbers, they all just has to be four out
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:50
of seven days. Sure,
Luke Jones 10:54
and look some of that is baseball. And what you said, Tell me what it is. Over the last month in July, it did struggle. They did struggle to score more runs. But, I mean, even look at Sunday. I mean, they scored four on Friday night. They ended up scoring seven on Saturday. Now that was a game where, thank goodness for remote areas, because of how that played out, as everyoneโs wanted to ship him off to wherever in with new guys coming in, but he did the job for them there, and then, obviously they didnโt score on Sunday. So look, I mean, Colin cows Sunday, over five aside, has excellent lead off role. I think thatโs given them a nice jolt. Itโs allowed them to lower gunner Henderson in the order, and now itโs just a matter of waiting for gunner to start hitting home runs again. Heโs hit. He had three hits on Sunday, but we havenโt seen him hit the long ball the way he did the first three months. And look back in June, if you would ask me, is he going to hit 55 home runs, as he was on pace to do at one point in time? I would have probably told you, probably not. You know, when youโre talking about a shortstop thatโs playing every day, even at age. Someone whoโs in their early 20s, itโs still a long grind of 162 that youโre going to wear down a little bit, at least for some some periods of time. So, you know, Santander has done what heโs done. You know, theyโre not getting much power from the outcastle. You know, he he hit clean up on Sunday and go look at his home run numbers over the last two months. I mean, itโs just not something not something that heโs done a whole lot of. Jimenez, to your point, has been a nice addition. Austin Slater, two hits aside, you know, heโs not someone whoโs playing every day, nor do I want him to play every day. But, you know, I Coby mayo, itโs feeling might be getting close to a reset for him, going down the triple A, as weโve seen them do with other guys. Itโs not writing him off, but doesnโt look like right now. Heโs ready to contribute, especially he never would
Nestor J. Aparicio 12:51
have been here had it not been for westburg, right? Sure, sure. I
Luke Jones 12:55
mean, thatโs the thing. I mean, because you mentioned some, you know, you mentioned Austin Hayes. Austin Hayes wasnโt playing a whole lot anyway. Connor Norby had just become a regular for the week leading into the trade deadline. I mean, theyโre missing an all star infielder in Jordan westburg who was really solid defensively and was there probably their second or third most consistent offensive player this year. So theyโre missing that. I mean, you donโt easily replace that. Theyโve come close to doing it with how good Jackson holiday has been. But thatโs not an easy thing to do, and thatโs putting a lot of pressure on some of your other guys to try to step up. So I mean, I I still canโt sit here and say that Iโm overly concerned about the offense, because I donโt know, like, what? What does that do? Like, who do you want to see instead of who theyโre trotting out there on a nightly basis? Right? They just brought up mayo and heโs what, oh, for 15 with 10 strikeouts, or whatever it is. Holiday has been one of their two or three best players since being recalled. So thatโs been good. I mean, it just comes down to, whatโs the strength of this ball club. Where are they? Much healthier than the their pitching. Itโs their offense. So when they donโt hit, itโs very simplistic. I mean, you canโt, youโre not going to win games, one nothing, most of the time, even to your point, if theyโre the 1997 Atlanta Braves or whatever. So it you know, I there are times where theyโre not going to swing the bats quite as well, just like any team, itโs baseball, but by and large, theyโre going to have to hit. And Iโve written this, Iโve said this, I say I feel even more strongly about it, even after some of the updates over the weekend that were encouraging, but not the most encouraging outcome for Grayson, Rodriguez and Danny coulomb, and go down the list, Jacob Webb sounds like, you know, thereโs no major concern with his elbow, but they need to get those guys back. But in the meantime, and even after they get those guys back, and hopefully theyโre pitching the way that we know theyโre capable of pitching, theyโre still gonna have to score runs, because Kyle Bradish isnโt walking through. That door, right? John means, is not walking through that door. Tyler, well, same thing, theyโre gonna
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:04
score some games too. You know what? I mean. So when they score one, theyโre gonna lose. I mean, sure, 98% of the teams in history baseball are gonna lose if they score one run. So to your you know, I donโt know what to say about the hitting, other than itโs an IS, not a might be. The bullpen isnโt an IS, and Iโm not even sure itโs a might be, you know, like thatโs why weโre talking so much about the bullpen and Brandon heights management of it, in that circumstance, in that game, you have to win. I donโt agree with pulling Suarez there all that being said, itโs because it didnโt work, right, right?
Luke Jones 15:47
Well, and youโre talking about someone that, I mean, how many times has he thrown? Itโs not like this guyโs thrown 110 pitches per start, right? I mean, it typically the best heโs been has been where they pull him somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 to 95 and thatโs when heโs been at his best. So Iโll hear it if people want to say, Yeah, I would have let Suarez finish the seventh inning. Full disclosure, I didnโt. I was at Ravenโs practice, so Iโm just catching up and going off of the box score and some highlights and all that. So Iโll hear that, but you still come back to Suarez isnโt going the distance, right? Heโs not throwing a complete game there, so youโre still coming back to youโre going to have to pitch two more innings of effective bullpen work to get the win there. And Dominguez wasnโt available, and Cano wasnโt available, and Craig Kimbrough is still this version of Craig Kimbrell that you have no trust in. So, oh, that
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:36
came next. But yeah, hereโs where I think fans, and certainly people that Iโd like to think all of you who listen and watch this programming, 33 years into this, I got to change my my cupcake are the intelligent ones to realize, sort of like, okay, the way They measure this, as baseball scientists is saying is CNL Perezโs next five pitches, first five pitches better than what whoever the starter is, and in this case, itโs Suarez. Do we want pitch 96 through 100 of his or do we want pitch one through 10 of reliever x, it could be anybody, and thatโs the decision theyโre making in that moment, as well as match up and lefty, righty and all the baseball stuff like that. I donโt want to. We can go down the you know, weโre not writing Keith Hernandezโs book here. We all sort of understand baseball a little bit, at least, I think we do, until I go out onto the toilets of the social media in the aftermath of all a fire. Brandon Hyde, I mean, itโs hilarious, but all that being said, thatโs how they do it. And I donโt know that you argue afterward, when the manager sits in the dugout after they lose tough games. And look, you were around five years ago when every night was a tough night. You were there when he had to sit and talk through losses with Rio Ruiz. And we go through the names of all of that. And Iโm paying more attention now, you know, like the mass and broadcast and what theyโre giving me, and you know what I can see as a fan, not the personality part of the Olympics. Iโm talking about, like, what I see, the baseball part of it. The baseball part for me is heโll say, it just didnโt work out. You know, thatโs what it thatโs what a manager I say it just didnโt work out. Like we played the match up, we brought in a guy whose first pitch has to be better than that guyโs 96th pitch, no matter how you feel about it, no matter how you and and the other part of weโre not going to overwork that guy and overtax that guy, because we need him. Um, and this other guyโs here, heโs getting paid too, whomever it is in this case weโre seeing, and certainly in the case of Kimberly, how much money heโs making and what you know, how the level of expectations on the seesaw. I mean, look, dude, Iโve been doing sports radio a long time. I remember when Glenn Davis had to hit the ball better than everybody else because he got paid more. Thatโs just the way people think, right? You get paid more, you have to be better. And I donโt know that baseball really works that way. If youโve been watching the Yankees the last 50 years or the Dodgers the last 20 years. But in this case, this is where the analytics come in. And when the manager has to sit in the dugout the next day and say, it just didnโt work out. It means, dude, we put a lot of effort into this. It didnโt work out. Itโs baseball,
Luke Jones 19:40
yeah, and look, I mean, I understand that they pinch it when Perez comes in, but you kind of look at his numbers for this season, and his splits are fairly even now, I know in past years, you could certainly look at that differently, and Iโll hear it again if you. To say that you would leave Albert Suarez in for that final out and what he had gotten two outs on four or five pitches. Itโs not like he was laboring or it had a long inning. Iโll hear that, and I agree. I agree with that at the same time seeing al Perez needs to come in and do his job right. Ultimately, manager, head coach, offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator. Go down the list any sport you want to talk about, whether youโre talking about the head coach, the manager, or a specialty, you know, a specialization kind of coach. Ultimately, you put guys in the position to go do their job, and they got to go do their job. And the problem with this bullpen at this point is you just do not trust nearly enough of these guys to do their job. So that being said, that is, to me, thatโs an argument to leave Albert Suarez in there. But Iโll continue to go back to even if you leave him in there and he gets that out, I donโt think youโre bringing him back out for the eighth then, right? I mean, youโre talking about, heโs probably at 100 pitches, or somewhere very, very close to that. You know, he already was close to 100 pitches. So youโre not
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:06
trying to prove a point. Youโre trying to get the next batter out. Well, sure,
Luke Jones 21:09
but my point is, you were still gonna have to get six outs there. Now, you know, because they were gonna have to pitch the ninth inning if they had the lead right? So, so youโre still, how are you getting through that without using Perez, Craig Kimbrel, you know, I saw some people saying, Oh, they would, should have taken Kimber out. Itโs like, okay to go to who, you know, Keegan Aiken, right? I mean, weโve been down that road. I mean, do you trust him more than Kimbrel? Maybe you do right now. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:36
point is, this is where youโre reaching for Jacob Webb and youโre reaching for, you know, Cologne coulomb and, yeah, youโre reaching for guys that arenโt there anymore. And, and itโs
Luke Jones 21:46
just not ideal. Itโs just not, I mean, you donโt trust these. We talked about this. Weโve talked about this over and over and over. Itโs kind of, I donโt want to say miraculous, that would be hyperbole, but it is pretty incredible that theyโre in the position that theyโre in, and their bullpen held up actually, as well as it did for as long as it did, considering just donโt have a lot of trust in this group as itโs presently constructed. You know when you obviously subtract Felix Batista at the end of last year, and yes, you signed Craig Kimbrel, but Iโve been consistent on Craig Kimbrell. I told you this back in when they signed him, I said, you know, I donโt hate the signing, but this isnโt Craig Kimball of 10 years ago. This
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:27
is going to be on the team in October. In your mind. Yeah, okay. Because
Luke Jones 22:31
who are you? I mean, you still have to, and Iโve seen people say, Oh, Iโd release my DFA. You donโt have another for what? For what? Exactly I mean, like, get an era under four for the year, right? Look, I donโt trust them right now at all, either. But right now is in October, right. Right now is in August 30, which isnโt September 15, which isnโt september 30, which is an October 15? Yeah, you
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:57
hate camera. Try bringing Kate povidge out of the bullpen in September. I mean, youโre not doing that
Luke Jones 23:03
right well, and itโs not even, itโs whoever, like, who are the alternatives, you know, Brandon Hyde or not? Brandon Hyde, Mike Elias, over the weekend, was asked about Batista, because there have been some video about Batista starting to continuing to ramp up and heโs throwing. But he once again, dismissed that, hey, heโs not pitching, you know, heโs not pitching until 2025 so because that, not that anyone was seriously thinking that. But I think there was some curiosity there, when you look at the timeline of when he had Tommy John, and wondering if there was some small, non zero chance that he could pitch it, you know, at the very end of the season. And they dismissed that. But, I mean, I talked about this last week, you know, in the in the wake of Grayson Rodriguez going down, you know, Chase McDermott was put on the AAA IL, and heโs someone who I thought had the kind of arm, not that I thought he was going to replace Craig Kimbrel, letโs be clear. But heโs the kind of arm that I at least thought that thatโs the kind of guy that maybe, maybe he could do what Tyler wells did at the end of last year, which, if you recall, by late September, Tyler Wells was pitching some high leverage late coming out of the bullpen. So thatโs the thing. I mean, you still have to look at Kimbrel and try to ride this really ugly stretch and try to get him situated again, because weโve already seen it, it, it worked out that, you know, after that stretch in late April, in the first 10 days of May, he was excellent for close to two months, you know, week a month and a half. Now, whatโs scary about that is Nestor. Even if that works out and he gets back on a roll, youโre still wondering every time he takes the ball, is this going to be the time when he goes back into a funk? Because weโve seen it multiple times now. But the point is, I mean, no, itโs different
Nestor J. Aparicio 24:54
than Mount Castle going into a slump or Adley rutschman Go. Well, you know, these guys have gone into slumps. You. You donโt have any latitude to have you your slump. Canโt be two batters in a one nothing ball game, independent race when you and the Yankees wake up tie for first place. I mean, like, yeah, yeah, this is, you know, it is not cut time right now, and theyโre gonna have to go with what theyโve got. And I think we all agree what they have isnโt good enough. Theyโre gonna have to hit their way out of it. But that being said, somebodyโs got to get outs in the seventh, eighth and ninth inning, no matter whoโs hitting, and they really need to figure that. Thatโs job one. I think the hitting will come around. Iโm with you, like theyโre not going to score one runs much, and if they do, theyโll theyโre going to lose right? Simple, yeah, yeah. And
Luke Jones 25:42
thatโs the thing. I mean, thatโs why I said youโve got to try to ride this out with Kimbrough and look, theyโve already adjusted. I mean, itโs not as though Brandon Hyde is just putting them in in the ninth inning of save situations. Kimbrough hasnโt had a save since, what, early July at this point in time, so itโs been clear that they pivoted there, but they were in a position Sunday because of using the bullpen Friday and Saturday the way that they had to that you were, you were short handed in terms of your best guys, so you canโt just not pitch half the guys in your bullpen. I mean, it just doesnโt work that way. Thatโs why I said to you over and over and over leading up to the trade deadline that you need at least four or five guys that you feel really confident about using in most situations, because your closer is not going to be available every single game, your primary eighth inning guy is not going to be available every single game. So youโve got to have at least four guys. And right now, I feel good about where Sir Anthony Dominguez is overall, I still feel good about where Cano is. We know Cano hasnโt been as dominant as he was last year. In the first three months weโve talked about that. That was the case even going down the stretch last year. I mean, beyond that, itโs dicey. You know, Perez, at times, has looked good, and then other times, you get the version of CNL Perez that we saw on Sunday. Gregory Soto is what he is right now. I mean, Iโm not pitching him in high leverage until he can at least string together some good outings. So they were kind of at a point with Craig Kimbrell where who else really in that spot? And I think with Kimbrel, they had kind of seen him look better in some of his more recent outings, albeit lower leverage, as heโd been pitching recently. And they tried to give it a whirl in the eighth inning on Sunday, and well, unfortunately, couldnโt throw strikes so and but in that spot, and I hear you, I think the key, and this is what theyโre going to have to do with Craig Kimber. And Iโve said I, I was even thinking this before he went into this latest funk was, and this is where I credit Brandon Hyde. You canโt let the ship go down with him. If he struggles, youโve got to make a move. But again, Sunday, they were short handed to the point where,
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:58
yeah, whatโs the next move?
Luke Jones 27:59
Who you turn the next move. Again, Dominguez was unavailable, canoe was unavailable. So itโs just, itโs tough. And again, many on the third team at that point, right? And this brings us back to,
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:10
itโs like asking to back up quarterbacks with the Ravens on Monday morning too. Weโll get to that later. But yes,
Luke Jones 28:15
this brings us back to, you gotta score more than one run. I mean, like,
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:19
well, you know, I went back to the traffic at you a little bit a minute ago. I was laughing you because Iโm thinking it goes back to your recipe last year, which is, they need to blow more teams out, right? You know, that makes the bullpen, but I donโt know when theyโre winning seven to three and give up three in the seventh and make it seven to six and, yeah, and then youโre holding on for dear life, or, you know, whatever it is, I would say that donโt fall asleep on this team when they have a lead. That was something that was not an issue last year when they won 101 games. Is that, ah, theyโre up six to two. Burns. Had a good outing. Itโs the sixth inning. Theyโll be fine. No, they wonโt stay awake. Have Ben McDonald keep you awake, or Brian Roberts, or Jeff AR, whoever theyโre putting me on somebody keep you keep me awake because it donโt turn it off, because anything can happen with the bullpen. Not a good feeling at all. And I went back, and I looked last year, and you know, I remember when you had the clubhouse passed, and we had to fight six innings to get and they didnโt let me in. And we had our tail between our legs. And we walked back to the hotel. We were discussing the end of the season and the little hotel we had right by Jerryโs world there and whatnot, and the late night beers, we snuck playoffs last year. You know, I looked up what happened in the playoffs last year, there are three losses. Three, two, right? Got good pitching. Couldnโt hit the ball. 11, eight, essentially got, you know, sort of blown out, right? Um, you know, and then hit the ball. Seven to one. They werenโt even in the game. They scored one run. Didnโt hit or pitch, right, right, right. So, so. Two runs, eight runs, good. Give you a chance, but gave up. 11. Was that the? Was that the Rodriguez game? No, yes, yeah, okay, yeah, Game Two was Rodriguez, yeah, yeah. And then, and then Rangers seven, Orioles one and outer and could be Rangers two didnโt matter, right? One runs, one run. They didnโt have to worry about that blink, bro. It happens quick. And it happens quick when you donโt hit the ball, and you donโt hit the ball for 48 hours, you do what, uh, Steph Curry you, you know, did to the French, you go to sleep. And so we can, and weโre going to when we when weโre not talking about the ravens, and when I not having Ben Cardin and Chris Van Hollen and Wes Moore and all these people on from Mako this week in Ocean City, but, but weโre going to talk to her blue in the face about all of this and how it sets up. But I still go back to my original premise at the beginning of this conversation, which feels like two hours ago, that theyโre not the same team they were a month ago, and that team that was on fire in May into June, and they are what they are right now, in the same way that the Yankees are with there. And weโre going to see what the Red Sox are this weekend when they get here. And theyโve had their own problems, certainly with their own players being Jack wagons. But this team here, hmm, you know, no Grayson Rodriguez. This is, itโs a 91 team. This is an 88 win team. This isnโt 110 win team, as per as currently constructed with no Westburn with mayo that you know is going to have to go back. And, by the way, pizza Johnโs is back home with us in sponsor, I always recommend the mayo and the cheese steaks. I get throw that in anytime we say covid Mayo, itโs making me think of pizza Johnโs getting me hungry for some pepperoni and some pineapple, maybe some little sausage on there. But nonetheless, for me with this team and hitting the ball, Iโm just going to check that box and say, if we spend six more months and we walk out of wherever we walk out of, if they lose feeling bad about it, itโs going to be because they didnโt hit the ball, but the pitching part of this on a day by day basis, and what, how theyโre going to cobble this together without Rodriguez, until it happens, and Iโm going to trust and say itโs going to happen, and wherever they Are with coulomb and wherever they are with Webb, seeing this and talking about this dude, this is going to be all we talk about until Lamar plays in three weeks.
Luke Jones 32:29
It is. And you know what else Iโm going to say, even after the series loss or not the series Lost, it got a series win, even after the season or the series finale defeat, tied for the rest best record in baseball. Theyโre
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:43
winning a lot of games.
Luke Jones 32:44
I mean, they havenโt won as many over the last six weeks, obviously, right? I mean, theyโre, they were at one point, 24 over, and they finished the weekend 21 over. So since the since the final week of June, or thereabouts, what was it? June 20? June, 21 whatever it was, the final day in the Bronx, theyโre theyโve played three games below 500 since then. But thatโs not 20 below. Thatโs middling. Itโs mediocre, obviously a little, you know, itโs bad, but not horrendous. Measure
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:14
this out over seven weeks if, if I said theyโre a 90 win team, itโs because theyโre both pens gonna piss games away, you know? And weโve already seen that the offense is going to have some nights where itโs not going to be awakened at all, and some nights theyโre going to score four and give up seven, and theyโre going to waste good starts because of the bullpen, and furns are giving them a real chance. And so would Rodriguez if heโs back and heโs right and the lats right, and you know that? I mean right now, Suarez giving him a chance, right? Sure. Um, Kramer, yeah, yeah. Weโll talk about him after the next start and just keep going, uh, see where we get with that. But there, as much as weโre bagging on the ball, pen bagging on the board, 40 minutes into Craig Kimbrel, and they got a couple guys at the top that are special right now?
Luke Jones 34:04
Yeah, I mean, itโs and Iโll keep going back to this, see what the record is. And look at these other teams. All these other teams are dealing with issues. I mean, Yankees ended up getting a series win over the weekend, but they just lost the series to the angels. The angels stink, right? They were at home, and they lost Boston, having their issues, and just hasnโt the Mojo that the Red Sox had right before the all star break. They just havenโt recaptured that. You know, they have no great team right now against ball. I mean, Cleveland, for as impressive as they looked, and they really took it to the Orioles the first two games of that series, the Orioles kind of broke them. They ended up going on a losing streak, and, you know, they regrouped a little bit to finish the weekend, but weโve talked about this, and okay, Houstonโs on a winning streak now. Theyโve won five in a row. Oh, wow, theyโre up to seven games over 500 I mean, who are the who are the dominant teams? So I. Donโt say that, meaning that always completely fine with the Orioles. I say that in terms of weโre down to, you know, weโre at what, right around 4243 games to go. Weโre roughly a quarter of the season to go at this point in time, and weโre getting very close to that point where itโs sprint time, but itโs wide open. This
Nestor J. Aparicio 35:21
will not be their best quarter. Itโs, oh,
Luke Jones 35:24
it hasnโt been, no, no. I
Nestor J. Aparicio 35:26
mean, theyโre, theyโre not going to go 30 and 10 the rest of the way. I
Luke Jones 35:29
mean, itโs tough to, you know, itโs tough to predict anyone doing that, right? I mean, thatโs 750 ball, but theyโve got to, you know, theyโve got to figure out. Theyโve got to piece together. They were capable of
Nestor J. Aparicio 35:41
that earlier in the year, I donโt think theyโre, I mean, sure. I mean, I lower my expectations on what theyโre going to do, as well as for the Yankees, as well as for the guardians who were playing over their heads, right, like the way Tampa did last year, whatever. And I donโt think the Orioles were playing over their heads or out of their mind, playing 630 ball. I thought thatโs probably the measurement of where they should be, if they had a healthy Bradish, if they had a, you know, if they had things working and percolating, and Webb was getting better in the bullpen, and they were finding answers. And, I mean, Dominguez might be an answer, right? I mean, I gave to no roses last week, and heโs been flowers ever since, right? So, um, I mean, they have some assets here, and they are the best team in baseball, and Brandon hogs not an idiot, and they have multiple all stars all over the diamond that can crush you. And one thing I wanted to say about the hitting that I didnโt get in, and I donโt know that weโre gonna, you know weโre at the nationals in town, the Red Sox. Weโll talk about that. But the hitting for me, all of these guys, when I say theyโre trained to hit home runs, as I talked about three hours ago with them, and the home run riches. And, you know, everythingโs a big theyโre taught to hit one way and hit line drives. And, you know, hit the ball 108, miles an hour, right at somebody right thereโs a little bit of that going on. Thatโs all that they go back and measure in regard to a good at bat is that, did I get good wood on it? Am I getting ahead of the bat out that I have good did I offer at a good pitch? A pitch thatโs my pitch, and you hear them talk a whole lot more about it, but all of these guys can hit the ball, 420, feet at any minute, on the turn of a wrist, if they get their pitch in their zone, in their ballpark. Thereโs no mark Belanger or Rick Dempsey in this lineup. You know what? I mean, all these guys can hit the ball, including mayo, even though he hasnโt
Luke Jones 37:37
Well, I mean TBD, because until he has a major league hit. I mean, itโs tough, but how about Cedric Mullins? Is a good example of that, right? Cedric Mullins having a bad year at the plate. Letโs just call a spade a spade. Heโd be the first to tell you that. But one, he can run down a ball and make a big play at a crucial point in a game, and we saw that over the weekend, and he can still hit the ball out of the ballpark. You know, he still has had his leading as they may be. Heโs had his stretches where heโs hit the ball a little bit better now, Cedric Mullins is of your regulars. And look, heโs not even playing every day anymore. You know, weโve seen that transition as far as him being more of a platoon kind of player, and at times, not even, you know, sitting against some righties even. But again, look around baseball, even the best teams. The Yankees have been a great example of this, right? And the Yankees are an extreme because they had the two of the absolute best players on the planet at the at the top of that order. And, you know, okay, theyโve added jazz Chisholm, and thatโs, you know, thatโs well and good, but theyโre still in a position where half their lineup, if not more, is an issue for them on a nightly basis. I mean, you look at these other contenders, other teams that you consider you would hold in high regard, theyโre not deep one to nine, right? I mean, the Orioles are about as good as it gets in terms of lineup depth. So that doesnโt mean the Orioles are perfect. Doesnโt mean that theyโre in your that worst player
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:03
might be going to the Hall of Fame Jackson holiday, right? Their last guy on the boat. You
Luke Jones 39:08
know, heโs not their worst player anymore. I mean, heโs Fair enough. Fair enough. I mean, I mean, if weโre trying to judge it on where it is right now, and Mullins, itโs been, you know, weโre four and a half months into the season now, and heโs heโs their worst offensive player
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:25
every day, too, right now, yeah, well, I
Luke Jones 39:27
mean, look, I mean Arias, and Iโm glad you brought him up, because, look there, heโs
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:33
a regular now. Heโs right, yeah,
Luke Jones 39:35
he has been. And look, in an ideal world, he wouldnโt be and he wasnโt, because Jordan westburg was our third baseman or was going to be with holiday coming back up. So it is what it is, but heโs still a major league player. He hit a big home run on Saturday, you know, kind of saved them at a point where, you know, there was an example where their offense jumped out to an early lead. They had an opportunity to add to that. They did not. And then burns runs into some trouble. So thereโs an example of even a game where the overall offensive production was good, more than acceptable. But at the same time, you know, they could have had a 10 spot, you know, they could have had an eight, eight or nine spot, because what it was second and third, nobody out. I want to say in what the fifth inning, I think it was, and they squandered that. So I want
Nestor J. Aparicio 40:20
to do my best Earl Weaver. And, you know, give you a hey, after I left out the belly, won a World Series with Todd Cruz and Floyd Rayford at third base, right? So, yeah, hereโs a little bit of that, right? I mean, sure, sure. I do think Westberg will be back. I hope youโll be back based on the kind of injury had. I donโt know what the rehab would look like in September or whatever, but he reminds me of surhoff, who I ran into last week at the blowfish concert, where, you know heโll, heโll, heโll, heโll do what the doctors tell him, heโll be heโs a gamer. Heโll be ready to play. Heโs not feeling sorry for himself. I just donโt I think heโll be okay, and I I think I would count on and even though I just channeled a pretty good Earl Weaver for you there, and I probably could channel A Davy Johnson on Todd zeal at third base, you know, in the 90s, you know, as well as some Mark Reynolds and some people. Maybe we donโt want to think about right now as replacement players, but as a replacement player for this period of time theyโll be okay because they didnโt throw them on the scrap heat, like you and others said. And Mateo, like, I mean, you know, thereโs, thereโs a little bit more of a cavalry on that side of things, if Mayo has to go back to pizza. John, yeah, you know,
Luke Jones 41:37
I mean, I think, where Iโm just concerned, and itโs not sitting here saying, Oh, I think Mike Elias is underselling these and these guys arenโt coming back, yada yada yada. I think itโs much more the case of and weโve talked about this a lot in recent years, when the Ravens would have players coming back from major injury, right? Thereโs a difference between being healthy enough to come back and play and being healthy enough and locked in again and thriving and being the best version of yourself possible. And thatโs where I have a little more concern with. You know, if Westberg misses six weeks, it comes back the last week of September, and Iโm just throwing it out there. I
Nestor J. Aparicio 42:15
donโt know strength is to grab a bat. I donโt, you know. No, you know, the day that that happens is a press conference that he could grab a bat, let alone swing it, torque it, and take a ball coming on to it with whatever the that that thing that happened to him was a nasty pitch. We all saw it. Oh, and again,
Luke Jones 42:33
for me, itโs not even, I mean, if he canโt grab a bat, heโs not gonna play, right? If heโs 100% healthy, thatโs still not the same as being 100% effective and locked in and ready to be dropped back in in the midst of a playoff run. Right? Same thing for Danny cool, Iโm on the pitching side. Same thing for Grayson Rodriguez, you know, Jacob Webb, it sounds like maybe heโs not going to miss a whole lot of time, so maybe thereโs a little less concern there. But itโs still elbow inflammation. You know, itโs, it sounds structurally like thereโs not a concern. But that doesnโt mean that heโs gonna drop, you know, be inserted back into the mix and be the best version of himself. So, so thatโs where you just look at, you know, you mentioned Mateo. Iโm a little less confident as far as whether heโs going to be back, you know, because, you know, the elbow, the dislocation. Thereโs been some conjecture and speculation about whether heโs going to have surgery or not. Thereโs been swelling. You know, Iโve seen him in the clubhouse. He was in the clubhouse last home stand, albeit wearing a big, bulky brace on his elbow. You know that one. Iโm not as convinced that heโs going to be back. So and look, Jorge Mateo is probably not going to be the the X factor in making a deep October run, but these other guys are important, and they need to have them back, and not just back, but theyโve got to be effective. So thatโs where I am. A little more, I want to say pessimistic, but concerned, right? Not not so much that Jordan Westberg is not going to going to come back before the seasonโs over, but what version of Jordan Westberg Are you going to get? Because heโs really important to what you do, and especially cool on and obviously Grayson Rodriguez and what they can mean because of just the need, the sheer need that they have in their bullpen and their rotation right now. So weโre gonna have to see. And again, itโs not as though they have an abundance of alternatives at AAA Norfolk right now. So thatโs where I just look at this. And believe me, I hear the frustration Iโm not confident in Craig Kimbrel coming out there right now. If you heard his comments after the game on Sunday, he fell on the sword, you know heโs not sitting there saying, oh, you know, Iโm going to be fine. You know, heโs saying I havenโt been nearly consistent enough, and Iโm hurting the team, and itโs really frustrating. So itโs not as though these guys want to do poorly, or theyโre being flippant about it, or, you know, complacent, but youโre just, you get to the point where you look at your options and youโre just like, Okay, you. Whatโs really going to how are you going to get better, in terms of making changes, right? I mean, who at Norfolk Are you bringing up that you feel better about? I mean, rotation wise, are you bringing Cole Irvin back? You know? Are you bringing Cade bovid back? I mean, thatโs why you just you need Dean Kramer to pitch better, because he has a track record of at least being better than heโs been this year, which is a 4.7 era. I mean, the last two years before that, he was much more of a league average starting pitcher, which, if heโs league average, youโll take that in the back half of your rotation. Itโs not ideal, but itโs better than what heโs been. You know, you need Trevor Rogers to be better, be what he was for the Marlins over his last eight or nine starts before he got traded. Weโve talked about Suarez and hoping he holds up, because heโs been such a godsend for them in whatever role theyโve asked him to fill. Heโs done a nice job, but it still comes down to you need your best guys to be at their absolute best. So Corbin Burns, who I would even say burns since the all star break. Letโs be clear, still, the race still one of the best pitchers in the American League. All of that, all star game starter, all of that, but have we seen the absolute best version of Corbin burns over the last month? Probably not. They need him to be an absolute. I
Nestor J. Aparicio 46:17
was laughing a little bit because Iโm like, well, we feel good about our fifth starter. The weird thing to say, Sure, well, I
Luke Jones 46:26
mean, Albert, but Albert Suarez, isnโt he? He? Heโs our third starter right now. Heโs been way better than Dean Kramer. And you know, Trevor Rogers has only been here five minutes so, but point is, as I was making with burns, weโve seen f be excellent for them. He needs to continue this. This is way more than Zach Effen we saw for the rays last year, which was a guy that got Cy Young votes more so than the guy that was closer to average this year for the raise. But, you know, they, they need those two guys to do the job and bullpen. I mean, itโs, this is where Iโll Iโll stick up for Brandon Hyde a little bit, because itโs just, I donโt if we can sit here on our couches and not know exactly how they should proceed with their bullpen. How do you think he feels in when the bullets are flying for real and the pressure is on for real in terms of, okay, well, Dominguez pitched the last two nights, so heโs not available today, and same thing with Cano. I think Iโll go with CNL Perez here, and they might pinch hit, though, as the rays did on Sunday. And obviously thatโs a factor. You know, Kimbrel has been better in some of these lower leverage situations of late. I kind of donโt have a choice. I need to use Craig in the eighth inning today, and, well, it didnโt work out. So, you know, can be bad at Brandon Hyde. And look, I took Brandon Hyde to task for his mishandling of the Toronto game last week. That was bad managing. Iโll call it what it was in that situation. But I think a lot of times we just judge it based off of what the end result is, and even if you thought Suarez should have been left in and Iโll agree with that, Iโll concur with that, I would have left him in there at the same time, seeing how Perez came in with two outs and nobody on. Gotta do your job like that. Thatโs not, itโs not like they put CNL Perez in an impossible position. And, you know, bases loaded, Noah helps that he gave up a run, right? I mean, so itโs a little bit of everything. And when youโre talking about a pennant race, when youโre talking about the division, we talked about what the landscape of the Al is, I think, even more so with with no dominant teams and so many teams just kind of jockeying to be in the playoffs, even more so it makes winning the division that much more important, not because of home field, because you want to avoid the best of three. I mean, you just do and thatโs why Iโve said it over and over and over. Iโll take my chances with that weird rest week that the Orioles dealt with last year, and the Dodgers and the Braves have had some issues with the last couple years. But, you know, theyโve got to figure this out. And a lot of this is, unfortunately, on the bullpen side. A lot of this is trial and error at this point in time, like, whoโs going to emerge? It might be Anthony sir, Anthony Dominguez being their clothes or down the stretch. I mean, at this point, after seeing Kimbrel struggle again, Iโm not ready to put him back in that role. So might be him. Maybe itโs Cano, maybe itโs complete committee. Maybe Danny cool on comes back mid September, and maybe heโs closing some games when itโs lefties due up in the ninth inning. So itโs not ideal. I have my concerns. There are definitely things about this team I donโt love right now, but I will revert, once again, best record in baseball that top tied with the Yankees for the best record in the American League. And we can sit here and say, well, thatโs not who they really are. Well, Bill Parcells said what you are, what your record says you are. And as much as it doesnโt feel that way, the Orioles are still right there. So hey, theyโve got, theyโve given themselves the luxury of still being in great position, still having, I donโt want to say cushion, because they donโt have cushion when youโre tied for first place, but theyโre not in danger right now, right? So theyโve got to try to figure this out. And Iโd like to sit here and act like Iโm smart enough to say, I have the answers, but really donโt. I really donโt know.
Nestor J. Aparicio 50:24
Theyโre a little bit like Roddy Piper, you know, they change the questions, right? Yeah, you know so exactly and the questions do change. I mean, thatโs it, Luke and I will be back after talking baseball all week, the birds, of course, hosting the Nationals, I have some Washington folks on John Feinstein joined us this week, as well as Howard balls is going to come talk some football with us this week. Iโm going to be at Mako later in the week. Next Friday, weโre going to be down at fade, Leeโs and Lexington market. I like to say the new Lexington market. Itโs beautiful. Come on down next Friday, cheatstrozer in town. I will have gold rush sevens doublers to give away. I might even have Raven scratch offs by then. I might cannot see Roz because the Raven scratch offs are out. I want to see what they look like. I bet theyโre purple. Weโre going to be Iโll find out, maybe on Thursday, Friday. Then at Mako, John Martinโs going to join us down there. Wendy Brown, fine for curio and foreign daughters going to join me down at the beach, as well as our senators, Ben Cardin, Chris Van Hollen, lots and lots of guests coming on. Zeke, covid is coming by. Just a bunch of people going to be coming by. Odette Ramos says sheโs coming by. And I got some Ocean City people, Al Hondo, handy, Eastern Shore legend, basketball player and long time rec Council leader and coach, written a book. Heโs going to be dropping by Ocean City over the weekend. Oh, Mayor me hand is going to be coming by. Tom prolazo is going to be coming by. That Samโs brother. So itโs gonna be a big weekend in Ocean City. All of it brought to you by our friends at Royal farms. Real fresh, real fast. Iโll be gassing up and chickening up. Luke is going to be Owings milling. Heโs going to be Camden yard. Zing, weโre all going to be together here this week, watching the birds take on the Red Sox over the weekend as well. All of it. Brought to you by our friends at Liberty. Pure solutions, keeping our water clean and Jiffy Lube, MultiCare, putting us out on the road. Plenty of ravens. Conversation ahead, some injury concerns. Falcons ahead. I hate fake football. Thank God for real baseball. Iโm Nestor. Heโs Luke. We are wnsd, hey at 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Baltimore. Positive. You.