Finding the bright spots – and concerning realities – in Orioles awful season and last place finish

With the arms of Trevor Rogers and Kyle Bradish seeking to play Yankees spoiler in The Bronx on the final weekend of the season, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the end of an awful Orioles campaign and look to next year and wonder where the level of optimism for the fan base should be amidst all of the awfulness – on and off the field for David Rubenstein, Michael Arougheti and Catie Griggs. First up: who is Mike Elias going to hire?

Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ disappointing season, highlighting the team’s poor performance and the potential for changes in the offseason. They noted the strong finishes by pitchers Trevor Rogers and Kyle Bradish, and the promising performances of young players like Dylan Beavers and Kobe Mayo. However, they criticized the overall lack of production from key players like Gunner Henderson and Adley Rutschman. They also discussed the need for fresh leadership and significant investments in talent and infrastructure to improve the team’s prospects for the future.

Action Items

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Monitor the Orioles’ free agent signings and trades in the offseason to see if they are making meaningful improvements to the roster.
• [ ] Analyze the Orioles’ offseason plans and assess whether they are making the necessary changes to improve the team.
• [ ] Evaluate the Orioles’ managerial search and whether they hire someone with the experience and credibility to lead the team.

Outline

End of the Orioles Season and Looking Ahead

• Nestor Aparicio introduces the show and mentions upcoming crab cake tour dates.
• Nestor and Luke Jones discuss the potential end of their baseball conversations for the season.
• Nestor highlights the walk-off hit by Dylan Beavers and the performance of Kobe Mayo in September.
• Luke Jones compares the Orioles’ season to other major league teams, mentioning the Yankees, Blue Jays, and Cleveland Guardians.

Historical Context and Team Performance

• Luke Jones discusses the historic comeback of the Cleveland Guardians and the Yankees’ performance.
• Nestor and Luke reflect on the Orioles’ poor start and Brandon Hyde’s dismissal.
• Luke mentions his MLB TV subscription and the drama of the final weekend games.
• They discuss the potential playoff scenarios for the Yankees, Blue Jays, and Cleveland.

Local and National Drama in MLB

• Luke Jones talks about the Orioles’ chance to play spoiler in their final series against the Yankees.
• They discuss the performances of Dylan Beavers and Kobe Mayo, with Luke noting Mayo’s excellent September.
• Nestor and Luke reflect on the overall disappointing season for the Orioles’ young core.
• Luke mentions the need for fresh ideas and changes within the organization.

Player Performance and Future Outlook

• Nestor and Luke discuss the lack of 20-home run hitters on the team.
• Luke praises Dylan Beavers’ performance and his potential as a leadoff hitter.
• They talk about the disappointing seasons of players like Colton Cowser and Adley Rutschman.
• Nestor expresses frustration with the team’s overall performance and the lack of positive news.

Ownership and Leadership Challenges

• Nestor criticizes the ownership and leadership, mentioning the decline in attendance.
• Luke acknowledges the need for meaningful changes and fresh eyes within the organization.
• They discuss the impact of injuries and poor off-season moves on the team’s performance.
• Nestor expresses skepticism about the team’s ability to improve without significant changes.

Future of Key Players and Team Strategy

• Luke Jones discusses the importance of players like Trevor Rogers, Kyle Bradish, and Gunner Henderson.
• Nestor and Luke reflect on the need for the team to spend money and make smart free agent signings.
• They talk about the potential for trades involving players like Adley Rutschman and Colton Cowser.
• Luke emphasizes the need for the young core to improve and the importance of a strong off-season.

Managerial Changes and Team Identity

• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for a new manager and the importance of team identity.
• Luke mentions the need for a manager with credibility and experience.
• They reflect on the impact of Buck Showalter on the team’s identity and performance.
• Nestor and Luke discuss the challenges of attracting top talent to the Orioles.

Fan Reactions and Team Commitment

• Nestor shares his frustration with the team’s performance and the fan base’s anger.
• They discuss the potential impact of a poor start on attendance next season.
• Luke emphasizes the need for the team to inspire confidence and make meaningful changes.
• Nestor expresses his skepticism about the team’s ability to improve without significant changes.

Player Development and Off-Season Goals

• Luke Jones discusses the importance of player development and the need for fresh eyes.
• They talk about the potential for players like Kobe Mayo and Dylan Beavers to improve.
• Nestor and Luke reflect on the need for the team to spend money and make smart free agent signings.
• They discuss the importance of the off-season for player development and team improvement.

Final Thoughts and Future Outlook

• Nestor and Luke discuss the potential for a strong finish to the season.
• They reflect on the need for the team to improve in all aspects of the game.
• Luke emphasizes the importance of the young core looking themselves in the mirror and improving.
• Nestor and Luke agree that the team has a lot of work to do in the off-season to improve.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Orioles season, final weekend, Yankees, Blue Jays, Cleveland Guardians, Detroit Tigers, Houston Astros, playoff race, young core, Adley Rutschman, Trevor Rogers, Kyle Bradish, Gunner Henderson, attendance decline.

8

SPEAKERS

Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones, Speaker 1

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 tasks in Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. And yes, I do have crab cake tour dates coming. We’re going to be faithless on Tuesday of next week, and then the following week it cost us. We’re making our way through October, my birthday month. We’ll hopefully have some lucky ones. Hopefully somebody wins 20 grand to one of my grand on one of my Raven scratch offs. Luke Jones joins us now we have this might be the end of the road for you and me right like after the Ravens game, win or lose to the chiefs. This might be our last baseball conversation of the regular season, and certainly the walk off of Dylan beavers, you were among the few in the faithful there on Thursday afternoon to watch the season come to an end. You know, we did a lot of pitching earlier in the week, about Rogers and about Bradish, but and we talked, we beat up on a lot of the position players, but this is the point where maybe we what do you say with time for count, when the dealings done? We’re almost done the deal in here this weekend. And by the way, they can deal the Yankees out of first place, which is kind of interesting,

Luke Jones  01:05

right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it’s across major league baseball. It’s an incredible final weekend when you look at the Yankees and Blue Jays, when you look at Cleveland and Detroit, which I mean the guardians with this historic comeback, when you look at

Nestor Aparicio  01:20

8

Yankee 78 right? I mean

Luke Jones  01:22

this, this is throw in it, whichever one you want to. I mean the 1960 right, the New York Giants against the Brooklyn Dodgers and 51 I mean, they were 15 and a half back on July 8. They were eight games under 500 on July 6. I think it was. I mean, you think about where they stood at that point. And, yeah, the Orioles had fallen further below 500 which led to Brandon Hyde’s dismissal in mid May. But when you just look in terms of the standings, and you think about what we viewed the tigers as being, for most of this 2025 season, being the best team in the American League, or at least being very close to, you know, in that conversation, and to see how they’ve fallen apart, to see what Cleveland has done, I have an MLB TV subscription where you can catch all the games, and I’ve so I’ve been able to catch a few innings here and there with that series that just finished up. But I mean, it’s the drama is great, and especially in these cases, like it’s one thing to talk about, Yankees, Blue Jays, both teams are going to be in the postseason. Now we know the difference between having a first round bye and then being a wild card is is vastly you might want to play Monday and Tuesday, sure, sure, but, but at the same time, you think about the consequences that if you are playing you know right away, and what that means for your pitching, depending on how you use it over the weekend. But in the case of this Cleveland, you know this Cleveland, Detroit race, and then you have Houston fighting for that last wild card as well. I mean, whichever team doesn’t win that division, there’s still a chance they could miss the playoffs entirely. Yeah. I mean, right. I mean, so, and you still have, like you mentioned, alluded to that last wild card spot in the NL, but got some really fun races here. So, yeah, here locally. I mean, the Orioles have a chance to play spoiler, you know, and that’s fun. And and Rogers and Bradish are going to pitch two of these three games. So they’re going to kind of give the Yankees, you know, put their best foot forward, at least as much as they can at this point in the season. But lot of fun. You know, it was a lot of fun for the home finale on Thursday. To your point, not many people in the building. I don’t, can’t blame anyone for a Thursday afternoon game, but you get the walk off from Dylan beavers. Kobe Mayo hit a home run. He’s Mayo’s quietly had an excellent September. He’s been their best hitter in the month of September. Is that enough to fully commit an everyday job to him next spring? You know, that’s highly debatable, but certainly has been good to see those two take some you know, in the case of beavers, hit the ground running from the moment he arrived. In the case of mayo, look much, much better in September than he did in August. That’s an understatement, but you know, you said it. I mean, the rest of the young core, you know, Tony mancellino even acknowledged it again through

Nestor Aparicio  04:19

the bubble gum card the other day, and it’s like, not good well, I mean, even if you want to talk about Mayo having a good month or whatever, I look around, I’m like, holidays got more home runs than Henderson, which isn’t good for him. Don’t have a 20 home run guy. I mean, like, think about that, that in the history of the franchise, even some of their worst teams, generally speaking, had a couple guys that hit Yeah, 20 to 25 home Mark Reynolds, yeah, yeah. It’s been such a bad here the last 30 years. I could give you some names, but

Luke Jones  04:50

yeah, no question so and look, I mean, home runs aren’t everything, believe me, I’ve had enough people tell me, Oh, the Orioles are too relying on the home run at different. Times over the last 10 to 15 years. And I don’t necessarily disagree, but when you look at at that alone, you know, you look at the strikeout numbers that they’ve had down the stretch, you know there’s a lot of work to do. There’s no doubt about it. It’s why I’ll continue to say they need fresh eyes and some fresh ideas coming into this organization, it doesn’t mean every single person needs to go, but they need some meaningful change as well. But you know that said, I have really liked what I’ve seen from Dylan beavers. He brings something that’s different to the table from the rest of these guys, not saying he’s necessarily going to be a guy that hits 30 home runs or anything like that,

8

Nestor Aparicio  05:42

be the craziest thing if he’s the guy that winds up being here for 10 years, because he’s the guy we heard the least about,

Luke Jones  05:48

yeah, but it’s not like he was, I mean, it’s not like he was a stiff I mean, it’s not like he was a 11th round pick or anything like that. But you’re right. I mean, he wasn’t a first round pick, but, I mean, the thing I love about him, he’s got a walk rate around 19% I mean, this is a guy who’s profiling fully acknowledging it’s been six weeks, it’s six weeks of baseball for him, but he looks like the kind of guy that could walk 80 or 90 times a year. I mean, if he does that, then he’s my leadoff hitter. I’ll tell you that. So that’s been good to see. But, you know, in a year where there’s been so much disappointment from from that young position core, when you’re talking about, you know, all the way up from gunner Henderson losing his ability to hit the ball in the air and drive the ball out of the ballpark, even though he’s had a still had a really solid year overall, you know, In a vacuum, all the way down to Adley rutschman, and where the heck he is right now. You know, the fact that Colton cowser is hitting around the Mendoza line and has for most

Nestor Aparicio  06:51

of the second half might have been the worst year of all of them. When I look at the back of the bubble,

Luke Jones  06:55

8

yeah, it’s disappointing. I mean, it is. And, you know, I mean, you and I kind of used him as, like, the case study, you know, kind of became a bit that we did. But, I mean, he’s had an increase, extremely disappointing gear. I mean, value months ago,

Nestor Aparicio  07:07

last off season, versus this off season. It’s just a tremendous that not saying that I’m looking to deal everybody. Yeah, Elias is. Elias is looking to get, you know, squeeze all the ripeness out of every fruit that he has there before he has to pay it, and that’s going to be the way this franchise is going to operate, I’m pretty sure, based on what I’ve seen with Rubenstein and what I’ve seen just in general, by the way, do you see that he got picketed the other day? Who Rubenstein? I did not Rubenstein and Glenn youngkin were doing something, and Wes Moore

Luke Jones  07:38

was there. All right, I covered two. I cover two sports teams. I don’t have time for politics.

Nestor Aparicio  07:43

Well, the governor of Maryland and the governor of Virginia were sitting, and there was a young, outspoken group that infiltrated a billionaire luncheon. And you could go on my Facebook and see it, and they were doing stick. They’re doing tele, you know, they’re, it’s very political, very we have a camera on us, very performative. But it was about Rubenstein wrecking Alaska, basically, in regard to his money and in regard to fossil fuels, and in regard to what he says he is and what he is. So, yeah, Rubenstein’s got that going on to it. Well, billionaires got their nose into everything, right, but, but I saw that that was happening for him in the off season. And I think about Elias, and Elias is now the chosen one which can like it, dislike it. He got the team in the first place two years ago. I’m not going to call Elias the village idiot, but it’s going to take a real effort here, of money, intention, people, all of that I saw, attendance was down. 500,000 people this year, right? Yeah, it’s

8

Luke Jones  08:51

not a small thing, not a small thing, but also not a surprise when you talk about how incredibly disappointing the season was and where the absolute worst moments were in the first seven weeks of the season, right? The first eight weeks of the season. The season was shot by Memorial Day weekend, right? I mean, if you collapse in August and September, you know, you might have the same record, but at least people had hope from April through July, right? Whereas this team had no hope from the time they you know? I mean, I think back to what it was Easter Sunday, when they had that colossal loss to the reds, you know, where they gave up 20 plus runs. So, you know, that’s really early in the season. I mean, all the injuries they had early on certainly didn’t help either. But they’ve got a lot of work to do. I mean, that’s that, that’s the Captain Obvious state, half a

Nestor Aparicio  09:41

million tickets. If it’s worth 50 bucks a throw, you’re talking about 25

Luke Jones  09:44

it’s a lot of less revenue, lost revenue, no question. So, I mean, it’ll be interesting to see how they proceed based on that. I mean, okay, if you’re gonna play it by the books, then, yeah, don’t spend money. Then see how, see how far attendance drops next year. Then too, right? I mean, that

Nestor Aparicio  09:58

8

Ara Getty comes. In because he’s really running things. You know, the David Rubenstein is just the front guy. Katie Griggs. These people are going to be hiding off all season. I mean, like if I speak of them with spit on my my breath, it’s because they’re a last place team. We don’t have anything good to say about them, other than the two pitchers coming to life the last six weeks, we don’t really have any, I don’t have any great news report. Besides, you got signed then he got hit. You know, Gunner Henderson. I don’t know if this is what he’s going to be next year, and the year after that, and the year after that, it’s not good enough. It’s not good enough to be where they want to be. I don’t know what they have that is good enough right now, including their disposition and their reputation and the way they treat people and their pricing and the way they have upon everyone who’s an Oriole fan, just in regard to how much money they’re going to have to pay to be an Oriole fan next year. So there’s my I’m not angry at the Ravens this week, even though they might be one and three on Monday, there might be two and two on Monday, I don’t know. But when it comes to the Orioles, honestly, I don’t defecate upon them enough. I mean, honestly there, there really isn’t okay. There really isn’t you do it quite a bit, I mean, and I’m not, I’m not saying there aren’t reasons too. But anyway, go ahead. Sorry. I’m just trying to bring a little little they’ve been a last place team all year, like I don’t I’m trying, honest to god, dude, if I’m going to be a prick, I’ll be a prick here. I’m a prick. Okay, it’s off season. What do they do? Well, go.

Luke Jones  11:45

They have Trevor Rogers, they have Kyle Bradish. They have gunner Henderson, who, at at least at you know, maybe not as much this year, but has been an MVP candidate for a half of the season before, has certainly been an all star caliber shortstop for three years now, and that even includes this year. They have Jordan Westberg, who certainly did not stay on the field this year, but was an all star infielder last year. They have Adley rutschman, who I don’t know what’s happened to him over the last 14 months, but was a two time All Star catcher. Then he’s not 35 years old. So they’re telling

Nestor Aparicio  12:20

me now is that they were in last place a bunch. You got a bunch of one ones, and they’re they’re still crossing their fingers, because that’s really where they are, right? Sure, that’s

Luke Jones  12:28

really, I’m not going to sit here and paint like this extraordinarily rosy picture. I’m also not, by

8

Nestor Aparicio  12:32

the way, you mentioned players. I’m saying, what do they do? Well, what does the ownership, the leadership? What?

Speaker 1  12:42

What do they do? Well, what do they do to

Nestor Aparicio  12:46

inspire any confidence that this will be different next year? I don’t know, unless you really believe in Mike Elias, and you really believe they’re going to throw $100 million at this in the off season, right? That they’re really going to add payroll, add people that isn’t whatever the left field, right fielder’s name, is it? I don’t even remember the Canadian kid. He didn’t played enough even remember his name, muscles, Tyler O’Neill. Yeah, him. There you go. Didn’t play enough for me to even know his name. And I’m not that’s not even,

Luke Jones  13:17

8

oh, he’s been around baseball. I know. I know. I know, you

Nestor Aparicio  13:20

know, let’s Peter King gave me the scouting report on him in the off season, Peter King sent me a text. It’s been a wild disappointment. Play 80 games,

Luke Jones  13:31

but, but even that outcome has been even worse than anyone you know that then you reasonably could have expected. I mean, he’s played, what, 50 games, right? I mean, even if he played 100 games, we’d still say that’s not enough, but he would have had twice the production. You know, he’s the biggest investment of Mr. Rubenstein money, sure, so far. Well, I guess technically, Samuel basayo Now, but, but, but even that, you’re really, truly talking about two years of, what, three years of free agency being bought out, or two years, I guess so. No, they’ve got a lot of work to do. Gonna sit here and paint this extraordinarily rosy picture? You know, I’m not going to sit here and go over Mike Elias entire resume that goes back to the fall of 2018 they did a lot of things to rebuild the organization and put them in a position where they actually signed international players. One of them has arrived in the majors, and they’ve even extended in basayo. He’s young. He’s not this established guy just yet, by any stretch of the imagination, they’ve had a farm system that has produced Major League talent. They’ve found a way to, you know, have some reclamation projects in the bullpen that have panned out over the better part of the last three to four years.

Nestor Aparicio  14:49

I’ll tell you what, with Bradish and Rogers, if they didn’t bloom as we sat here July 15, we would have nothing, you know. I mean,

8

Luke Jones  14:58

like, like, finger. Gunner Henderson’s not nothing.

Nestor Aparicio  15:01

Man, no, no, no. I mean, we’d have nothing right now at the end of the year, Gunner Henderson had a lousy year for gunner Henderson, or for anyone who thinks he’s gunner Henderson, or anyone who thinks he’s getting $500 million so I didn’t want to like that

Luke Jones  15:13

still more than a five win player. But go ahead,

Nestor Aparicio  15:17

8

all that’s fine. It better be better than this. It better be better. That we better,

Luke Jones  15:21

I agree, but, but to say he’s had a lousy season is just kind of hilarious. But for him, for

Nestor Aparicio  15:27

him, okay, ask him about his season and his expectations back in March, versus where he is for

Luke Jones  15:33

allowing a lousy season is what Colton cowser is doing, you know, Okay, fair enough, that’s your right. No gunner, gunners. But gunner’s talked about it. He needs to get his swing. Has not had the lift to hit the ball out of the ballpark. That said. He still has 33 doubles, five triples, 16 home runs. He has 29 stolen bases. He still has a 783 ops. Now, am I disappointed by that? Of course, I am, but I’m also not going to sit here and say it’s been a lousy season. It’s been disappointing. There’s no question about that. And I’ll still say that probably going back, I’m guessing, having the intercostal rib issue or whatever in spring training probably impacted his, you know, his strength might have impacted his swing. And here’s

8

Nestor Aparicio  16:21

if I were, you know, if I had to have this conversation with Rob long or Rocco Baca, they’d have to be Kay Fabe on how they speak about their own players. But that’s part of the issue, is that I think at the end of this, if you gave Brandon Hyde the serum test, the truth test, he said, Well, everybody got hurt, and that got me fired. We’re in last place because everybody got hurt,

Luke Jones  16:44

and injuries were a big part of it. And don’t say a Mr. Mass and saying that because of this

Nestor Aparicio  16:52

season, when you look at say, How the hell did that happen? You’d say, well, they got hurt. That’s part of it.

Luke Jones  16:59

8

That’s all of it. I would say, you know, if you wanted me to say they had a poor off season in terms of their starting pitching, and they put way too much reliance on their young core, when Tyler O’Neill and let’s, let’s also be, in the interest of fairness, Ramon Laureano was a fantastic pickup. But when those are your big moves to augment your your young offense. When you said goodbye to Anthony Santander, and you kind of knew where you were with some of the other veteran guys that were kind of on their way out, and you knew Burns was leaving. You know that it was a poor off season. On that front, their starting pitching is what absolutely killed them early in the season, and their young core has been a wild disappointment, collectively, right? And from gunner Henderson’s relative disappointment on the way all the way down, you don’t

Nestor Aparicio  17:51

have one player that I look at other than Rogers and say, All right, I want more of that. I want exactly that, more of that, that’s going to be good enough, that’s going to make the bell ring. And that doesn’t mean Mayo over three weeks, or cows are over his best three weeks, or Henderson two years ago, or ruchman Three years ago, or any of that. It’s collectively, all of it has really stunk this year, from the ownership through the leadership, through Mark fine, through the attendance, through the television, through just all the way through just all I can’t think of one thing they’re good at except bullshitting the people that already still go, and they’ve they’ve screwed that up by sending people. People are angry. I’m not the angry one on Twitter, dude, I read Twitter. Everyone’s pissed at them now, whether that’s going to hold, whether they’re going to get money from people who’ve been giving them money, or whether what I’m seeing on my timeline this week. And I mean this, dozens of people on my timeline saying, Well, it’s the end of my season ticket run with the Orioles. This is the end of my 13 game plan, my 20. Mm, you know, whatever I’m done next year I’m going to go as I go. And you know what? They start two and 10 and five and 14 and seven and 18 and, you know, whatever, if they start bad, I don’t know where they go from losing a half a million people in attendance to next year. What the excuse would be if they’re a third place team that’s a five under team that’s just okay, but not great, not good, not in it, I the jump back to 101 wins with this outfit right now. We’re not gonna be talking about them the next five months the way we talked about them the five months last year, despite the outcome in the playoffs last year, because you’re not gonna You can’t sell me on it, Luke, I’m gonna be the angry prick all off season when you start gunner Anderson and Anthony. You mean all the names that we’ve had for the last five years, they don’t mean the same thing to me now. Trevor Rogers means something different. Brad is she’s always been your guy. We’ve been waiting founder Henderson should

Luke Jones  20:10

still mean a lot to you. I mean, like, I’m sorry, I’m not going to continue to just sit here and act like gunner Henderson stinks. You know,

Nestor Aparicio  20:17

he’s going to get his 650 at bats next year, and you’re going to pencil but I agree with you four home runs, you’re going to pencil him in for 34 home runs and 110 RBIs, because that’s what it’s going to take, right? It’s going to take 33 more doubles. It’s going to take all of that. And I’m going to say to you until further notice, he’s Nick Marquez until I see

8

Luke Jones  20:39

I guess, because the two previous years don’t count at all. They can’t we only go off. Let’s bring them back. I’m just, I’m just saying I’ll still go with

Nestor Aparicio  20:48

what have you done for me lately? For all of course it is a body of work. Of course it is, but he has a body of work that was much better two years prior to that trading gunner Anderson. But this isn’t the off season. I’m offering a 500 million either, and fans aren’t going to get probably

Luke Jones  21:03

not going to take it, even if you offer right exactly because, because, in all honesty, I think he’s hitting 45 next year. Well, I think part of it would also be he probably wants to see the direction of the organization, just

Nestor Aparicio  21:14

8

as much as anyone else are. We were at the Machado point of I might not want to be here. That’s true. I mean, could you blame them? Well, you wouldn’t said that this time last year. You wouldn’t have said that this time last year. They’re the Cardinals. They’re like they have destroyed this thing in six months for the way even I could talk optimistically about maybe getting my press pass back and going back again. I’m not talking like that anymore. I think these people are incompetent. I think that they’re not good people. I think that the wrong people have bought the team. I guess there’s no time and well, I mean, I’m just saying I’m going to be the guy to sell it. Let Rocco Bacco sell it, let Rob long sell it. They’re paying him to sell it. I’m not selling it because I don’t see it, because I don’t believe it, because I don’t believe it. I believed it last year. So I sold it, even though they’ll say they’ll they’ll forget that I praised them, and they’ll forget how they locked me out of the playoff game. I flew 2000 miles to get to right. So I was on their train when they sucked. I was on their train when they’re good. I’m on their train in the off season, the offseason. But I’m not lying to my people, and I’m not lying about what my eyes have seen this year, my eyes have seen incompetent people. David Rubenstein, Michael aragetti, Katie Greggs, I see people who don’t know what they’re doing. That’s what I see. That’s my observation on the baseball side. You know, I don’t know how committed the ownership is to really being committed. They’re committed to having their kids in the hot dog races and running around. They’re committed to I’ve gained so many autographs my arms hurts, and look at my bobble head, isn’t it awesome? They’re committed to that. I don’t think they’re committed to baseball, dude. I’m being honest with you, I mean that this is two years into this now they’re not committed. They’re committed to being famous and using their money for a toy and saying it’s a philanthropy that’s ownership. Now, what that means the gunner Henderson’s off season, or Adley rutschman, or Jackson holiday, with his parents out hitting baseballs in his house, and in the off season, how strong he’s going to get and how much better I will buy that Henderson holiday? Um, I’m not buying cows, are. I’m not buying Mayo yet. I’m not buying anybody with holes in the swing. And that’s most of these guys who strike out a lot. And because that to me, I don’t know, you don’t hit the ball. I that’s me being an old guy. Get off my lawn, then you’ll laugh at me for that. But just

Luke Jones  23:35

saying, most people around baseball strike out, but I hear you. I hear Hey, they’ve struck out way too much in the second half. I’m not, you know, or especially down the stretch, when it was kind of like, Hey, listen, you know, horns gone. Mullins is gone. Laureano is gone. All right, Ramona RIAs is gone. Young court, it’s been disappointing. Been last in baseball and run scored since the trade deadline. I’m not going to sit here and excuse that. I’m not going to sit here and say that it can’t and won’t be better next year, but they’ve got a heck of a lot of work to do. There’s no question about it. That’s why, to me, you need fresh eyes, you know? I i Actually, to be totally honest, I think more of Tony mancellino now than I did two months ago, but not, not enough, not enough to make the permanent manager, right? I, I think he for anyone who’s paid attention on a daily basis, and God bless if you have, because it hasn’t, hasn’t been easy, although I will point out, and amidst all the negativity, go look at what the record is. In September, they’ve actually played some pretty decent baseball, you know, on the they pitched, that’s kind of been what’s

Nestor Aparicio  24:42

what’s crazy about it weekend they would be looking to knock the out of the playoffs, right? They have an opportunity before Monday, to be sure.

Luke Jones  24:50

And again, it’s September, and I’ll go back to Buck show Walter 15 years ago saying, you know, spring training in September can be great fuller so I’m not going to sit here and, you know, I’m not throwing them a parade. Let’s be. Clear, but they have won some games in September. There have been some good things to see. There have been a lot of things that have still been really disappointing. I mean, Jordan Westberg has come off the IO and hasn’t hit at all the last what 10 days, or whatever it is, some 10 days, but, you know, you’re kind of open to finish on a high note. I mean, Adley ruts back. You know, it’s only been a couple games, so I’m not judging one way or the other, but, I mean, you’re at a point now with him, what’s his future?

8

Nestor Aparicio  25:25

Yeah, the organization’s catcher positions, weird, right? With but like, how we’re going to slice that up next year? Who’s going to catch and when and why? Yeah, who’s going to look the way they need to look in March. I mean, spring training is good, a big deal for this team all of a sudden, right?

Luke Jones  25:39

Sure, no question. I mean, especially hoping that they’ve made some meaningful additions. I mean, they need that, right? I’ll continue.

Nestor Aparicio  25:47

It’s 175 in spring training. I do go to Norfolk and hit a bit. I mean, like, literally. I mean there, there’s some guys here. I They have not earned opening day. I’ll see holiday in Russia, and I’ll see holiday and Henderson here next year, you know, I guess westburg on reputation alone, you know, but the rest of these guys, I mean, what you’re going to give Kobe Mayo opening day bats, is he absolutely, I don’t know. I don’t know.

Luke Jones  26:15

8

I mean, I think, I think, I think Mayo is one of the more fascinating individuals of their offseason, because, you know, he’s had, let me, I’ll pull it up as I’m talking here. But let’s face it, I mean, he has failed and struggled far more than he has thrived over his first, what, 350 plate appearances in the major leagues now, in fair or 330 plate appearances in the major leagues going into the final weekend. Now, that’s been splintered, you know, that’s been kind of broken up. That was his cup of coffee last year when he didn’t play a whole lot, and when, you know, when he came in and played, it’s kind of like he’s starting twice a week, or something like,

Nestor Aparicio  26:53

cups of coffee never go well, which makes this beat that’s wearing so interesting,

Luke Jones  26:57

yeah, sure, but that’s where you look at Mayo, you know, at the trade deadline, one of the Silver Linings was, all right, he’s going to play every day. He was absolutely awful in August, but he’s been excellent September. You know, look at his slash line. In September, he’s hit 300 you know, he’s hit for some power. He’s drawn some walks. It’s looked way better. I mean, he’s

Nestor Aparicio  27:18

something more that profiles the way Norfolk did for him, sure, sure.

8

Luke Jones  27:22

So I know he’s put in the work. I mean, you know, I It’s interesting. And I know we were talking about mayo, but Dylan beavers was asked after he hit his walk off on Thursday. You know what he’s learned from his first six weeks in the majors? Like, what stood out? You know what? What has been his impression compared to what he might have dreamt the Major Leagues being. And I’m going to read his quote because honestly, it’s what a lot of these guys are dealing with. And I don’t say this like in a boo hoo for them, like it’s JV baseball way, but it’s just the reality of it. His quote was, it’s hard up here. You know, you’re never going to have an at bat that’s comfortable, especially when it’s not going good, that’s when it really gets challenging. It’s just remaining confident and trusting my process and preparation. I think that will ultimately lead to success here. I mean, that that’s the theme for so many of these guys right now, right? I mean, even gunner has like Zig Mitel wrote that down for him, right? I mean, I mean, I mean, I

Nestor Aparicio  28:20

think an answer that you’re gonna as a fan, I like that. Yeah, right.

Luke Jones  28:25

You know, it’s, it’s a mature answer. And look, it is really I, I say this all the time, and I don’t say this because I quote, no more than the average fan. You know, there are plenty of baseball fans out there who know even more than I do when you talk about getting into the weeds on statistics. Or different things like that. But what my biggest takeaway in my 15 years, you know, covering baseball, and I’ll say this for the NFL as well, is when you’re up close to it, you have an appreciation for just how difficult it actually is, just how even the worst player in baseball, or the last player on the Ravens practice squad, just how incredibly special These athletes are, just in a general sense, to get to that point, let alone to get to that point and have success the way that the very best you know, the the Lamar Jacksons. You know which Lamar is. You know, as unique as they come, but you know, a gunner, Henderson, having the success he’s had. But like when you hear someone who’s even had success over the last six weeks, you know, who has been kind of the exception, not the norm, as far as their young players, when they’ve been called up, where, you know, beavers has scuffled the last couple weeks, but you know, still has over an 800 ops, you know, he’s got a walk rate that’s excellent. You know, he’s got an on base percentage that has me thinking, you know, I kind of see him being a better fit for the lead off spot than Jackson holiday. And that’s more a compliment to beavers than a knock on holiday. But you know, to hear him say that, I mean it just it reminds that you. You know these guys, you know they go through college or high school ball, and they they get drafted where they do. They go through the minors. Most of them just tear it up at every level. And you get to the majors, and it’s like everyone else is really good too, like everyone else is the best of the best. All those guys were great in the minor leagues, too. And it’s just, I think there’s, you know, we and we’ve talked about this, that’s why I think it’s important for them to hire a manager that has some cachet, that has some experience you know, someone that you know it’s not, obviously it’s not Buck Showalter himself, but someone who brings something like that you know, that you know, maybe you know, commands a little more credibility, but also has a little more credibility, not just in terms of demanding better from these guys, but maybe can, you know, be relatable in a different way that you know that when they need an arm put around them, it’s like, hey, it’s going to be all right, you know. So I don’t know, you know, there’s,

Nestor Aparicio  31:02

8

I think there’s not hiring Jim Leland or Tony La Russa or, you know, like, that’s over with, I don’t know, you know, and that’s, and honestly, like, spot, his name was the guy that they threw around the last time when they hired Brandon Hyde, right? So, I mean,

Luke Jones  31:16

I think, you know, and for me, that’s a big part of, you know, with the managerial hire, you know, we’re going to find out if Mike Elias has learned anything from what’s happened the last couple years. You know, is it going to be, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be the guy out there that has the absolute most manager Major League managerial experience. You know, they could hire skip Schumacher. You know, he was a manager of the year the same year Brandon Hyde was, you know, does he? Does he carry a buck? Showalter like factor? Not, no, not really. But would be someone that it’s like, hey, we, we hired a legit Manager. This isn’t just some unknown, right? It’s not just the promotion from within, you know, and I don’t say that to to bash Brandon Hyde or to bash Tony mancellino, but they there’s a human element to all of this that I think they’ve really short changed. And I think that’s, I don’t think that’s the leading factor. I think the leading factor is that these guys have just struggled and not performed. And we can talk about, you know, player development and what they emphasize, or we could talk about the mental part of it, or we could talk about guys not being healthy, or guys not being in the best condition, causing them not to be healthy, right? I mean, there’s never just one thing we know that, right? I mean, even though we try to break it down in in such lowest common denominator form a lot of times in sports talk. But, you know, they need, they need someone that’s I thought it’s funny. I went back, and I don’t want to go off on a tangent too much here, but I went back and I found something written the day that buck Showalter was introduced. Andy McPhail made the comment that we felt like our club needed an identity, and we think Buck Showalter can bring that for us. Now, the Orioles did not win the World Series or have a dynasty under Buck show Walter, but boy, did that come to fruition in terms of an identity for that core over the next five or six years, which included three playoff appearances now, yeah, it’s a confidence level for the fan base, sponsors, and that’s players. Yeah, everyone. Think about buck. Think about him being introduced at the savannah bananas game, and the incredible, extraordinary Ovation he got, the Ovation he got when he was the one who introduced Adam Jones going into the Hall of Fame back in August. Well, he’s one of the few things that brought any respect to this organization over 30 years, over 30 years. And let’s be clear, it’s not like Buck had these great ties to Baltimore before he arrived. He was known most as b Oh, he was the Yankees manager. Oh, he was the Rangers manager. Oh, guy from Seinfeld, he started right, exactly. So, you know, I again, it’s not that it has to be that dynamic of a personality. For one, I don’t think they’ll hire someone that would not really align necessarily with analytics and things like that, which Buck really didn’t.

Nestor Aparicio  34:14

Well, Buck needed a gig at that point. He had been on TV, desperate for the job. No one in the world was going to hire Buck. Buck was thought to be prickly and hard to get along about it. They did his own way, like all interested in Bobby Valentine, right? And Peter Angelos was thought to be why would Buck work for that guy like at that moment? So it was shocking that buck showed up, and Buck got talked into it by McPhail, because McPhail talked Buck into the old man’s gonna let me, leave me alone. And for the most part, that’s the way it rolled. I mean, by that point, Peter was out eating pudding and Done, done with him, done with being a tyrant at that point. And then was really never heard from again. You ran into him in the locker room that day after the Yankees game at 14. And that was, again, was that was 12, actually, 12. Yeah, the division long, long time ago. So there’s never. From again. So it was different in that era. It was because they couldn’t hire anyone, because no one wanted to work for that jerk. So like, in a general sense, or many, many, many qualified people that just said, That’s North Korea, I’m not taking a job there in the same way that I wouldn’t take live money from the Saudi Arabian government. So I would say in this case, they don’t have that reputation. They don’t have that going on. They could hire Joe, torni LaRue, they can hire anybody they want, because they don’t have to go through the list of who won’t work here, which was 30 years of that. It doesn’t really, I mean mark to share a would not play here no matter what. So they couldn’t they just couldn’t get players. They couldn’t get coaches. They don’t have that problem anymore. They shouldn’t jump top shelf. They can buy a real manager. They can deal for real players. They have real minor league talent, like Colton cowser that they could deal off here in the island, not Hadley ruchman, those high draft picks. They could get some value for if they want to go in that direction, if they’re done with some of these guys, because they’re definitely a feeling in the fan base of if they traded Adley ruchman On January the 10th, we’d all scratch our heads here. What did they get for him? Did we give up on him too early? Did they? Did they fail in getting him to where he needed to be as an organization? I don’t know. I mean dealing any of the names of all of these names that we’ve thrown out, they still all feel so young to me. But in baseball terms, been a one one anymore. Adley rutgerman is a failed prospect right now based on the back of his public um card. I mean,

Luke Jones  36:41

not failed in the sense that he was a two time all star. But it’s like, what has happened the last 14 months,

8

Nestor Aparicio  36:46

giving anything for him, and what are you getting for him? And what’s, what’s, I mean, I I

Luke Jones  36:50

don’t think his values, none by buddy, by any stretch of the imagination. That said, Would you be trading them at peak value? Of course, not. Nobody’s going to build around and I would also say, I mean, at the same time, let’s also not be hasty from the standpoint of, what are you doing at the catcher position? That right? I mean, okay, you just drafted two got, you know, drafted one pure Catcher in the first round this past draft. And, you know, but Ike Irish probably going to profile a little more like Messiah, right where he’ll catch, but also, you know, play, you know, he’s, he plays some right field, you know, he’s kind of almost like a BJ sur Hoff kind of guy in that way. But, but the fact that we’re even having the discussion speaks to how disappointing he’s been going back to July of last year, right? So, I mean, for me, for him, get healthy. I mean, when you have an oblique injury on either side, that tells me you’re not in peak condition, or you’re you’re over swinging, and we’ve kind of seen that, you know, with the dramatic uppercut, and you know how he started hitting the long ball more first half of last year, and how I think that had a negative impact on his overall offensive profile. Well, he was taking less pitches, so yeah, I mean, the walk rate dropped in the process. So look, they’ve got a heck of a lot, and, you know, obviously I push back on some of your criticisms, but so a heck of a lot that they have to do this off season. They’ve got to spend money. They’ve got to be smart as much as I love Rogers and Bradish in my top half of the rotation. They need at least one more high impact starting pitcher and probably another guy to fill out the back end of the rotation. You absolutely need a legitimate everyday caliber outfielder. I think, you know, even with my praise for Kobe Mayo for how he’s played in September, you know, I’m not ready to hand him the everyday first baseman job, so maybe it becomes Kobe Mayo ends up being the guy that’s dealt with the full understanding that I think there’s a good chance he’s going to blossom into a really nice Major League hitter. But when you look at the timeline for that, you know, Chris Davis didn’t really blossom and become Chris Davis, and I mean him at his peak until like, age 25 or 26 Kobe Mayo is 23 if it were 2021 Sure. Trot him out there every day. But this team has three years of gunner Henderson left, club control of gunner Henderson left, and there’s a work stoppage likely in the midst of that, you know, whether it’s going to cost games, or at least the long the entirety of an officer. We went 45

Nestor Aparicio  39:26

minutes in this one, we finally mentioned the fact that they probably aren’t going to have a World Series next year, right?

Luke Jones  39:32

8

So, so, well, not next year. No, it’d be the year after that. It’s after

Nestor Aparicio  39:37

2026 next year is going to be contentious year if they don’t, no,

Luke Jones  39:41

but I’m just, but I’m just saying the work stoppage is, you know, the CBA expires at the end of next year. There’ll be a World Series next year. Now, the year after that is the is the question. But, yeah, I mean, it’s, there’s a lot to be done. Look, they spent $72 million last year, last winter on free agents. Didn’t spend it well. So. So for me, yeah, of course they have to spend money. How much money are they going to spend? That remains to be seen, but they have to spend it more wisely than they did this past year. So yeah, they’ve got a lot of work to do, but I’ll bring it full circle, and I’ll leave you with this last point. A lot of that is the young corn needs to look themselves in the mirror. What are you going to do to get better? Because this hasn’t been good enough. And yeah, I’ll throw gunner in there, even though, like I said, I’ll, I’ll stick up for him in terms of how his season’s been described, but certainly been disappointing. There’s no question about that. But at the same time, you have other guys that you’re starting to question, if they’re everyday players. You know, Colton cowser was second in rookie of the year last year. This year, he’s looking more like a platoon guy or fourth outfielder. You know, that’s not what you’re looking for from the what fifth overall pick? Oh, there, yeah. So just give me above average player, like dependable, more consistent everyday contributors, right? Well, they’re

Nestor Aparicio  41:02

going to go for the next four months, go off and pray and lift weights and drink milk and eat cookies and do all the things that they should be doing in the offseason, try not to get themselves arrested, like all of that, and come back and everybody in the place is going to need to be better. We’ll agree with that, right? Including 1000 I don’t

8

Luke Jones  41:19

know if you can expect Trevor Rogers to be better than a 135, era, but he needs to pick up where he left off in terms of looking like a guy that’s a number one or number two starter, same for Kyle Bradish.

Nestor Aparicio  41:31

All right. Football ahead. We’re done with baseball. You could call Katie and call Mr. Rubenstein and tell him, I’m jerk that I always was, especially when the team’s in last place and doesn’t feel like there’s any hope in the offseason. And especially, and this is my I’ll leave it with this. It’s nice to be important, but it’s so much more important to be nice. I’m Nestor. We are W, N, S, T, A, M, 15 70,000 Baltimore. We never stop talking Baltimore Ravens football. Let’s get to two and two. You.