Lots of fans, lots of autographs and young players trying to make a name for themselves and impress coaches. Another summer of Ravens training camp in Owings Mills as Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the nuance of July “statistics” and why these practices matter.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
years, practice, ravens, play, preseason game, interceptions, football, good, lamar jackson, lamar, weeks, day, pads, find, baltimore, july, throw, john harbaugh, field, report
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor J. Aparicio
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are W n s t Towson Baltimore and Baltimore positive.com Go find that on the internet wherever you do it Ravens fans this is a purple segment about to come your way all the brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery I will very soon have revealed scratch offs I’m sure the Gold Rush sevens doublers are here for the here and now least there’s no August it’s coming in August is like soon. We’re gonna have these we get this thing back out. We’re gonna be at state fair on the 13th of August. We’ve had a complication, it’s pushing things. Angela also Brooks is going to push us into September we’re going to make that happen during the oyster tour all are brought to you by the Maryland lottery in conjunction with our friends at Liberty pure solutions. I gotta get some Liberty pure water out but this is Liberty pure water here because they keep my water crystal clear. Well water any kinds of plumbing issues? That’s what they do at Liberty pure solutions. And they’ve really they’ve upgraded my gig with my water that’s why my skin so nice because I got good water. Also Jiffy Lube, multicharacter my car runs so well. That’s why Luke gets out to ravens camp and then down to Camden yard and the Camden Yards and ravens camp and I get to sit and watch and run around and laugh about how I muck things up with the Ravens in the Orioles and I’m not allowed to go anymore, but I am a little jelly with the Padres. Yeah, because I’m a Padres guy and Machado coming back and they’re giving away stuff and no hitters, but then you’re like, Hey, dude, they’re putting on pads. And I’m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, it’s my mother’s birthday. It’s July. Oh, um, how are you? How you holding up I mean, the homestand is about to happen here. We’ve talked a lot of baseball around here, trading deadline, my Oh my It’s very, very busy. If my my mother’s up as we record this on Friday, my mother’s birthday today. And she would be let’s say 1921 105 today, and she would love herself at first place or he’ll team that scuffling and a trade deadline and football football football to Luke Jones report of Lamar not really being under the influenza, as my mom would say. Or my mom would say he had the virus. She would say he had the virus before COVID. She She didn’t live long enough for COVID. God bless her. But she’d say he had the virus. That’s any if you your nose was running, you had the virus. So he’s back out on the field. All the mysteries are solved. And hey, purple trainee can how about that Louis Jones?
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Luke Jones 02:29
Yeah. And with Lamar Jackson being back, I’ll be limited when he when he returned to the field on Wednesday, but just in time for the pads to come on for everyone else. And this is what I like to call another one of those offseason checkpoints. And look, let’s be clear. We’re still two weeks out from the first preseason game, the first preseason game where most of the starters are going to play anyway.
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:53
So we’re July it’s July. So we’re still
Luke Jones 02:56
very, very, very early in this process. But this is one of those checkpoints where I say, look, I was out there for OTAs and I was out there for mandatory minicamp and I was out there this past week in Owings Mills. And this is where I say none of that stuff that happened really mattered. It didn’t practice observations in May and June and the first week of training camp. They’re fun. It’s a football fix for anyone who’s ready for football for anyone who wanted to take a respite from the Orioles or anyone who’s not a baseball person. So it’s fun. I’m not anti observations for camp. I mean, heck come out there every day. Yeah, of course, I’m going to tell you what I see. But I also remind everyone that nothing to this point has been all that meaningful, really meaningful whatsoever beyond health, which they’ve navigated the first few days other than Omar’s illness without any major injuries. In fact, no one’s really even left the field quite frankly, over the first four days of practice. So John Harbaugh would say hey, we’re ramping up slowly we’re trying to ease guys back into football but now the pads come on. Now the practicing to me becomes a little more real in terms of the threat of contact being introduced as cam Cameron years and years ago famously talked about I think that he was talking about I can’t remember if it was Tandon Doss or one of the young ravens wide receivers, and Cam Cameron’s comment was let’s see what happens when the threat of contact is introduced. And I think that was always a an appropriate way of summing up OTAs mandatory mini camp and those first few days of training camp. Now the pads coming in now it becomes not real football 100% Because very very little tackling to the ground. It’s not as though these guys are going to be doing Oklahoma drills like you know like yester year with two days and things of that nature but business does does start to pick up. offensive line competition starts to pick up when the pads are on. And when you’re going full contact, so it, it’s, it’s, you know, it’s not exciting in the sense of thinking about it in terms of a game. But I think the app, the observations, and what you start to see does start to become a little more meaningful. And it’s kind of the next step. So it’s also, as I just alluded to, they’ve stayed healthy to this point, when you do introduce contact, that’s where the injury risk does go up. So they’re still going to be smart about it, they’re not going to go full live for two hours of a net, they pick their spots when they hit, and when they go full contact, and even when they do live, they generally just do live. But once the ball carriers wrapped up, they blow the whistle, you know, they generally don’t go live all the way to the ground, because that’s those pile UPS tend to be those times where guys get hurt. So, you know, so but there’s always some excitement. And I think for the younger guys, this is very much a litmus test if I could, if you gave me the exercise of going through my last 15 years of offseason practice coverage, I could probably name you a team of guys that looked really good in shorts and may in June, and then disappear or guys that look good the first week of camp and then disappear once the game start. It’s just how this works. So you
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:16
8guys are fit and fast and look good. Getting off the bus. Yeah, sure. Offensively defensive linemen look good getting off the bus, the god rest Sarah gooses soul, but like, he never looked at that part there. You know, there’s some guys that learn even GQ from a defensive tackle standpoint, you know? Yeah,
Luke Jones 06:33
yeah. But but once you introduce contact, once you put the pads on, it becomes a little more like real football. And that’s where you guys start to. And there might be some guys that I haven’t uttered once at Baltimore positive.com, or on our airwaves that will make a big play on one of these first days where they hit and I say, Wow, where did that come from? So there’s also some guys where that happens on occasion. So we’ll see how it plays out. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:58
John Harbaugh notes that in the postgame, usually the PostGame Report, but I do find it funny. I mean, I’ll give a shout out to Bo Smolka. Because I saw his tweet out there or something. And it was something like it was a headline, it had something to do with like the urgency of a July practice where the defense won or the offense won, or somebody’s ahead of this or that or who won the day. And I’m like, Ah, god, spare me this. And I remember the last time I was on the field, as a professional. This is after Jack steel threw me out and told me I wasn’t coming to his training camp. I was up in late Trobe with all the Steelers beat writers on like, day eight or day 10. They were late Trobe pin played yet. And it was like muddy, it was awful. And, and they were sloppy. And they didn’t have a quarterback because they had three of them. And they were all trying to figure out if Kenny Pickett was the answer, and they’re counting is interceptions, and seven, and seven, and shorts. And they’re all counted, and they’re putting it out on Twitter, and I’m watching it. And I’m like, tell Jack steal. That’s why I don’t attend these because I can’t take any of this seriously. But I know what’s important for them and for evaluation, but for how it’s reported upon for the next couple of weeks. Dude, it’s, it’s a little to Fox News for my WNS day, it’s a little too sensational for me. You know, it’s a little too rash from a practice standpoint of reporting, just to report I don’t know, I don’t wanna call it clickbait, but I would call it attention bait, you know,
Luke Jones 08:35
I’m gonna push back a little bit on that because I’m out there. I’m not going to just go out there and not talk about it. I’m not gonna go out there and just not write about it. I’m getting paid to go cover it. And while you would say that and while there are certainly plenty of fans who don’t care about training camp, there are a lot who do so that’s where I will report what happens I will note that on Wednesday, ravens quarterbacks threw six interceptions. Now Lamar threw one Lamar didn’t practice all that long on Wednesday. Josh Johnson threw three Do I think that means anything in the big picture? No, of course not. But for your football fix for your practice observation on July What was it 24th That’s There you go.
8Nestor J. Aparicio 09:16
Steelers beat writers arguing whether the interceptions were real and which ones yeah poured upon and which ones then that’s when it got to be comical on a cloudy day when the sky was about to open up in July. Yeah just found that to be hilarious because all the Steelers nation there’s fans in Japan. I don’t like them either. Who are Steelers fans and they’re hanging out on this over this over Kenny pickets first three days of practice and later Oh sure. I just find that to be I liked it Lamar signing autographs and everybody’s wearing number eight in the governor’s there and you like, you know, like I like all of that and I like practice and I think practice on like Allen Iverson I think this stuff’s really important because I’m the First guy that gets busy when they don’t show up to do this stuff, right. But all that being said, how it looks right now. And who looks good in July, I’m not as interested from the report tutorial standpoint of that, as I am the functional standpoint of what they think of it, not what I think of it, they’re the ones in the classrooms, you’re only seeing some sort of an outcome, but I just, I find it to be too judgmental for guys that are practicing. That’s me. That’s how I feel about it as a journalist, and as a, hey, the doors are closed when I report and how many free throws Larry Bird missed today in practice, and, you know what I mean? Like I, I think that that’s, that’s a rougher part of it being open. That you know, for players agents, you guys can make a name for themselves, right? Like literally, cornerback picks off a couple of LaMarcus passes, and all of a sudden the secondaries doing great this week. Right? Right? Well, the secondary has looked really good just because it’s been
Luke Jones 10:58
overwhelming. That said, it’s late July. And this is where I think we have to strike the right balance as reporters, and this is why you, you will rarely ever see me sit there and start citing statistics for practice. Like I’ll see some not so much. The Ravens beat. But I look around the league, and you’ll see stats being kept during practice. That’s where I’m like, Guys, what are we doing here? For one? We know that many of these periods in practice, have a very specific objective. It’s not like you’re just scrimmaging trying to beat the opposition. Yeah, you’re trying to you’re trying to, you know, upstage the your opponent on that specific play. But is it red zone? Is it a specific play action period where you’re really focusing on that where the defense might know that you’re running play action, right? I mean, it’s, so there’s just so much of that. So I think what it really needs to be is we need to understand context and nuance when we’re talking about reporting, talking as reporters, and also as fans who are interested in it, understanding what it really means. I love practice observations on a daily basis that I just keep track of, because there are times then Nestor, where there’ll be an undrafted rookie that will make the 53 man roster, and I’ll do a little, I’ll do a search at Baltimore positive.com. And I’ll find how many times I mentioned that guy, and hey, I mentioned them on July 28, that he made a heck of a play on the football or, Hey, he blew past Ronnie Stanley as a pass rusher, or, you know, whatever it is, so but you have to understand the context. And I always kind of view it through the lens. And that’s why I said, putting on the pads as a checkpoint for me, where everything that’s happened to this point in OTAs mini camp and the first four days of training camp. I basically forget. I mean, I really do because now it’s like, okay, now they’re starting to play something that’s a little more like real football. But but we just have to understand that as media and as fans consuming it, it’s fine. It’s good to have that coverage. It’s way better than if the Ravens just closed practice. And we’re just twiddling our thumbs for the next six weeks saying what’s gonna happen.
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:07
Your point that you know if any of that? Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know that, right. And you know, that the teams that you love it, because you get to see a whole lot more of it now. formational Lee, that paints the pictures, really, I guess, I don’t want to appreciate you more than me, maybe your audience, but like that, but there is a point in the reporting part of this or they’re out there practicing. And an interception is reported when the breakdown could have been from 21 other players on the field, trying to practice a play, that I that’s the weird part for me, because it is, especially this time of the year. And they video all of this every day, they’re ripping it apart. Every night, anybody’s watched Hard Knocks sort of knows all the ins and outs of how seriously the offensive line coaches and the assistant coaches, and the guys that are breakdown tape are watching foot movement, our movement, body movement, or alignment assignment technique, all of those things, in every one of these hot days seeing who’s seen who’s tired, who’s not who’s like all of their evaluating every part of these players, because that’s what they do professionally. And this is when to your point, you’re evaluating them. Now, this is when they get to evaluate because they all look good getting off the bus. They all are in the classroom, and you sort of know what, you know what their intellect is. And that’s why you draft it because you think they can catch on, you know, yeah, they can be a good student, because that’s what this is about. From the day I met Marvin Lewis, their teachers, these are students. Let’s go out this is this is the quiz. This is the test. The test is in September. Sure.
Luke Jones 14:44
8Well, and the test really gets later into the season. I mean, specifically for this football. So those are the finals. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, just a couple of things. And look, I mean, this every single day is just a little tiny piece of the big picture right? This is I, I’ve said this for years and we’ve talked about this for years, when you see someone show up in a preseason game, and Shamar Bridges was an example of this. There’s a wide receiver a couple years ago on the 90 man roster. He had a really nice preseason game. It was a good story. His iPad, was it his stepfather, I think had played for the Ravens in a preseason setting. 20 Some years ago, you know, never made the team or anything like that. So it was a really fun story for that. I think it was a Saturday night preseason game. It was a story for a couple days. And then guess what, he never really did another thing after that. He was on the practice squad for a short time, never made it to the 53 man roster. So you just have to understand what everything is. And for me, if someone should and John Harbaugh has even said this, I’m not talking about a turn like I’m a know it all here. I’ve just I’ve heard coaches talk about this, that when someone flashes in a preseason game, but that’s the first time they’ve really flashed, and they, in the three weeks of practice leading up to that they didn’t do a darn thing. That’s not going to get you that far. Because they’re gonna say, why aren’t you stacking and practicing? Well, every single day, you can see pretty quickly even as someone like me, and look, I’m not Eric DeCosta. I’m not John Harbaugh. I’m not one of their scouts. Okay, let’s be very clear about that. But over the years, some of the rookie free agents who ultimately made the team, you know what I can tell you, boy, they really show up and practice and you see that they’re doing good things just about every day and they’re shown, Patrick wasa was a great example of that, you know, he was an undrafted linebacker, you know, what had been a saint. I think it was a safety in college and off the top of my head.
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:35
I remember being that guy. Yeah, in one year, and it just came from nowhere. Zach aura was one of those guys. Sure.
Luke Jones 16:42
But I can remember, and this is just this is one example. There have been plenty of guys like this. But I remember a while so I don’t think we had talked about him at all. In the spring. As reporters, I don’t think we had talked about them the first couple of days. I mean, they didn’t have quite as long of a ramp up period. I mean, this was 10 years ago. But I remember it was either the first day or it had to be one of the first couple of days of the pads coming on. And it was Kyle use check called a pass in the flat. And a Waso just lit him up. I mean, it was man, where the heck did that come from? And then from that point on, he established himself now if I recall correctly, I don’t think he made the 53 man roster in week one, I could be wrong on that. But he he found his way to the 53 man roster sooner than later. And I still go back to that point. Everyone famously remembers Terrell Davis for the Broncos, right? That kickoff play where I think the Broncos were playing the 40, Niners I think it was a Japan or something like that it was one of those exhibition international games, if I recall correctly, but he sprinted down the field and absolutely crushed the kick returner. And that put him on the radar to make the team and then of course, a year later, he’s you know, becoming this best running back in football. So, you know, you always have those stories, but generally speaking for the young guys that are trying to make an impression, it’s showing up day after day after day now, so the other point I wanted to make beyond that, and it pertains to the quarterback. But it’s, it’s the easiest example because it’s something that’s measurable. But I would, I would venture to say, if Lamar Jackson goes through the rest of training camp, and doesn’t throw a single interception. I’m not sure that’s a good thing. And the reason why I would say that is not because you want Lamar just to go out there and just aimlessly throw the ball to the opposing, you know, to the defense. But this is a time where you’re trying things out. Drew Brees talked about this for years. Tom Brady talked about this for years. This is the time of year where you see if you can fit the ball into that window, you know, that coverage window and you see what your potential number four wide receiver can do on a jump ball or a 5050 proposition?
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:51
The wide receiver you
8Luke Jones 18:52
throw it to him? Yeah, exactly. So and let’s be clear, there’s a balance there. If Lamar is throwing eight interceptions every practice, then yeah, you’re starting to ask questions. But this is also when guys are trying things out. And this is why, you know, you don’t want to just look at this through the lens of all Lamar Jackson was 17 of 22 during a Lebanon 11 reps, and he threw three touchdowns but he also had to intersect that’s like, Okay, that sounds great in terms of what you would see on TV on Sundays, but that doesn’t tell me a whole lot about what they actually worked on that day. And, and what you’re not spring training are famous for this, right? Sure. Exactly. Pitchers. Yeah. So again, that doesn’t mean we don’t report on it. It doesn’t mean fans can’t hear details. But we all need to understand context and nuance to how this works. It’s not a real game, even when they put the pads on this, you know, over the weekend, and we get into more of these live contact practices. And even when they get into the preseason games, I mean, it’s it’s still not the same as lining up against the chiefs on September 5, let alone talking about what’s going to happen in December in January. So We just don’t need to understand that. And if we do, then practice observations are fun. Hey, it gives you a football fix, you know, because we know that they’re not playing a real game for another, just under, you know, close to six weeks. We know they’re not playing another, their first preseason game for about two weeks, and even then you’re not going to see many of the starters. So there’s nothing wrong with this, just understand what it is. And if we understand what it is, then I’m happy to share it to share my 12 ravens thoughts on a daily basis. But you know what I say about those 12 ravens thoughts everyday Nestor, I forget about them the next day after I write them and after people
Nestor J. Aparicio 20:34
24 hours? Yeah,
Luke Jones 20:36
I mean, it really is. So again, it’s it’s fun. And, you know, at this point in time, the only thing that’s consequential health, and just understanding the general big picture that yeah, they’re preparing for the season. And that’s again, where you go into, because Lamar Jackson threw an interception on on a specific play. That doesn’t mean he made a horrendous play, it might be an information gathering opportunity where you say, All right, I can’t throw the ball there because Kyle Hamilton just picked it off, or, Oh, maybe I need to throw back shoulder there. And that’s an opportunity to make a big play and, and Tez Walker, their fourth round rookie Pickett just showed that he can make a play on a ball like that. So you know, you just you have different things like that, where you’re, you’re learning it’s evaluation, right? It’s evaluation for the coaches and for the players. So, book show, Walter used to always say this, about his third base coach every year, he’d say, you know, if my third base coach goes through the full season and doesn’t get a single guy thrown out at the plate, he had a bad year, because there are a lot of missed opportunities there. If he’s playing at that safe, that’s why I said, if Lamar Jackson goes through a whole training camp without throwing in or any interceptions, then I kind of wonder if he’s trying to, or not trying, I wonder if he’s maximizing everything you can do on the football field? Because, you know, it’s like an artist, you know, it’s like an artist with a canvas there, you got a chance to explore and see what see what you can do there. So take advantage and if you throw a pic, who cares? You know, even if the media is out there, who cares? Again, it’s, you know, don’t throw eight picks a day, a game or a day, then I’ll start to ask questions if you’re throwing that many every day, but you throw a stray pic here or there because you’re trying something out. This is the time to do it. Not not against the chiefs, not against buffalo, not against Cincinnati, later in the sea, certainly
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:20
8not against Philadelphia, Atlanta next month and some preseason game because that’s not happening either. Right? Right. Practice these guys are gonna get as real team. Yeah, I
Luke Jones 22:29
mean, the only other opportunity that most of the starters are going to get we assume I mean, John Harbaugh hasn’t said this officially. But I’m guessing it’s not going to change. I mean, if you didn’t play your starters last year, and you lead the AFC and you had the best regular season of any team in the NFL, chances are you’re probably not changing too much on that front. But when they have their joint practice with the with the Packers, that’ll that’ll be the most meaningful on field work that the starters are going to get this summer, most likely, because that’s the chance to have a little bit of a controlled scrimmage. You know, you’re probably not doing a ton of live to the ground, but you’ll certainly go live. And you’ll have a chance to see what it looks like. And that’ll be as close as Lamar and the established veterans most likely get because I’m guessing we’re not going to see them in the preseason games. I mean, the way they played last year, I don’t see any reason why you would play them in the preseason, because they went 13 and four in the regular season. So you know, so it’s, again, it’s all about understanding context. And now it is more a little more interesting because they do put the pads on and I think you do start to find out a little more about the young guys, you start to find out a little more about this offensive line which is still very much wide open in terms of what it’s going to look like other than Lindenbaum at center and Stanley at left tackle and you know for these young pass rushers like Oh way and especially David a job Oh, and TBS Robinson, you know, we’re gonna find out about those guys in terms of are they ready to be part of the rotation? You know, what you have with Van Noy? You know that always at least the legit NFL outside linebacker, whether he’s gonna be a star or not, is certainly very much up in the air still. But you got to find out a job. He’s got to stack days. He’s got to develop, you know, he’s got to practice. You know, TVs Robinson’s got to practice these, Isaac, when he gets right with the hamstring, it’s gotta practice you know. So once the pads come on, it does become a little more real for those guys in terms of okay, it’s great to run around out in shorts, you know, in May in June, but now it’s time where football starts to look a little more real and that’s where it’s more interesting to see how those guys are doing more so than keep a track of what Lamar Jackson’s completion percentages during practice.
Nestor J. Aparicio 24:38
He is Baltimore Luka he is going to be out on the practice fields, no matter what the temperature or the conditions may be. Monitoring all thanks for Ravens fans follow him along with ravens flock at Baltimore, Luke in all of the good social media spaces, and we got baseball Padres around the Orioles hovering With this trading deadline all of that stuff available out on social media all weekend long as well as at Baltimore positive.com
