With the Maryland Terps back on the hoops radar all week, it was time to bring our old pal Walt Williams back to discuss the wizardry of The Crab Five and the pending portal for Kevin Willard and every other other college basketball coach. Let The Wizard tell you about the state of the game and adapting to changes in College Park and throughout the sport.
Nestor Aparicio and Walt Williams discussed the Maryland Terrapins’ prospects for the upcoming March Madness tournament. Williams highlighted the team’s versatility, noting their ability to score from both inside and outside, and their potential to pose a threat to any team with five players capable of scoring 20 points. They compared the current team to past greats like the 1973-74 team and discussed the impact of the transfer portal and NIL on college basketball. Williams emphasized the importance of defensive consistency and bench scoring. They also touched on the changes in college basketball, including the role of boosters and the influence of money on player decisions.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
March Madness, Maryland Terps, Walt Williams, college basketball, transfer portal, NIL, coaching changes, defensive consistency, bench scoring, player recruitment, team versatility, tournament seeding, basketball history, Maryland crab cake tour, college sports.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Walt Williams
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We call it Baltimore positive. We call this March Madness. Time of year. We’re going to be mad about some pizza on Friday at Pizza Johns. We’re going to be gathering over there in the pre preparation for Terrapins. I’d like to say it’s play into the tournament. We all know all these games are dangerous. All that brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery. I will have the magic eight ball scratch offs to give away pizza John’s this Friday, next Friday, we’re in Toronto, Canada with the Orioles. We come back the following Wednesday, on the second of April, will be down at fade Lee’s in Lexington market, before the Orioles take on the Boston Red Sox, the Maryland Terps are on everybody’s tongue. Here is a real chance, and they got some good players and an interesting seed going west. I got a guy I’m trying to reach the people might know a little something about Maryland basketball. And I, I’m wearing my state fair shirt with the Maryland flag on here in Catonsville. And we’ll be over in Catonsville in a couple of weeks as well, on the Maryland crab cake tour. But The Wiz is here to school me. Walt Williams played for the Maryland Terps back in the day, and the no lights of plenty of action, and we’re I don’t know what the hell happened to the cameras back then, but then had a nice career in the NBA. He’s been calling the action with Johnny and Chris and everyone for a long time. Wiz, how are you? How’s life? Everything? Everybody feeling good and feel a little bit of confidence about maybe playing it at least next weekend.
Walt Williams 01:27
Oh, absolutely. You know, when you talk about this Terp team, they’re versatile, not in the individual place, not just in the individual play, but as a team. You know, collectively as a team, they can play up tempo, they can play half court, they can score from the outside, score inside. So I would guess that they pose a real threat to anyone in the country when you’re talking about five different guys who can give you 20 plus on any given night? Well,
Nestor Aparicio 02:01
we’ve had some Final Fours around here. We’ve had some lefty runs and some Gary runs. And where do you put the crab five up against the group, just in a general sense, of five players. And I think it takes more than five. I think we would all agree on that at some point. Um, but where do you put this group against anything you’ve seen here in your lifetime, or even I’m a We’re the same age. Man. Do you remember the 7374 Terps? You remember those games
Walt Williams 02:29
I, you know, I was three. I was three, four years old. So I do not.
Nestor Aparicio 02:34
I was five and six, and I total, I had McMillan on two weeks ago. And if I find Lenny and Lucas, all of them, I remember the 74 team and 24 teams and all of that, but like so I go back a minute before that was a really special team, and I talked to McMillan about Moses Malone, maybe having would have been a part of that, and the UCLA of the East, but this in the new world of n, i L and all of this, um, this is kind of remarkable willard’s been able to do, including getting yourself a contract extension. Well,
Walt Williams 03:03
yeah, I think that in this day and age, it’s just year to year what you can do in that portal, and you’re recruiting, you know, being able to, I mean, it’s just crazy, but recruiting your players who you can get to return, you know, and making sure those key players are there. When you’re talking about putting a team together, it’s tough nowadays because you never know who’s going to be there. So last year, very, very good defensive team, I say in the past two years, very, very good defensive team, but struggled offensively, and then in one year, you get guys who to score at the magnitude that they can now. And so now you look at them going into this tournament, and it’s just about, what can they do on the defensive end? Can they be consistent? And you haven’t, you haven’t said that in will it’s since he’s been, since coach Willer has been here. And so you gotta take your head off to the coaching staff as a whole, being able to recruit and turn things around in one season.
Nestor Aparicio 04:11
What Williams is our guest. He is the wizard. Uh, he calls action from time to time on the radio dial, as well as just a great historian for the Terps. And, I mean, I think you’ve been calling it for 20 years. I mean, you’ve seen everything here from back through Gary, through Turgeon, through all of this, all the changes. And anytime I talk to a guy your age, they all say the same. It’s crazy. This is crazy. This is great. And I remember two years ago, Gary Williams doing a business event up here. And he’s like, well, at some point there’ll be some guard rails. At some point they’ll put some rules in. There’ll be some guideline. I don’t know. I you know, I think when we talk about it, we say, This is crazy. I had coach scary on from Towson recently, and, you know, I’m Coppin, and I do a lot of business together up here, so I have Stu one. And Coach Woods on on the lady side as well. I think for all of these coaches, the business has changed dramatically. And I think even for guys like you that have lived your life in this or you remember what was like to be recruited and wanting to go to Maryland and wanting to stay there, even through tough times as you you know, you were a part of that, that had there been a portal and Georgia Tech came calling, or a school of Texas, or whatever, I mean, on a year by year basis, it’s just not something that entered your mind, or any of our minds, and now it’s the genies out of the bottle.
Walt Williams 05:29
Yeah, at most, you know, I had one year of just trying to figure out and making a decision where I wanted to go, or something like that, but every year, year to year, and then you talking about the money that’s being paid, that’s, that’s an absolute big factor, huge factor, in a lot of these, these decisions that’s being made. So, man, I just couldn’t imagine playing in this kind of environment, especially the kind of person that I am, I don’t know if I fit in this type of environment. Where you’re talking about transferring and guys getting paid money and stuff like that in college, I think it opens the door also for college coaching to be able to two things. Now you don’t recruit high school players hardly anymore, because you can look at going to the portal and get a guy who’s college proven already, you know what he has at this level, you don’t have to guess. And so you can see who fits into your your team, fits with your team, and then make those decisions. So it’s tough for high schoolers now being able to play in a major d1 but then, and then also, now, coaches now, at the end of seasons, they ask players to go into that portal because maybe they’re not a good fit, or can help them win right away, you know. And so a number of those kids that are in the portal is not because they want to make that changes, because they’ve been asked to. And, you know, in my day, that was unheard of. You could, you wouldn’t be able to recruit another kid if, if you offered a scholarship, and then that next season you take it back. And so, you know, I think it’s just the wild wild west right now. You have to get some type of regulatory body to start regulating things and and putting some type of rules in place to be able to protect not only the coaches, but the these players as well, because they all are vulnerable. What
Nestor Aparicio 07:40
would you say to a young man? I mean, I mean, where’s that people come to me all the time at journalism and, you know, press credentials and just all the things that I’ve had to learn the hard way as a 56 year old guy. You played in the league at a tough time in the ACC and big I mean, everything about it has changed. I think the same thing about media like, when young people come to me, I’m like, I don’t know the world’s different now. I don’t know that world. I know this world. I don’t even know Do you have any sage advice when because you talk to young people and they admire you, and they should for the path that you’ve walked in, the kind of man you’ve been, but they come and say, Hey, Wiz, I can play ball. My dad said you were great player. Tell me, you know, tell me what you think. Give me your wisdom. I wisdom. There you go. Give me some wisdom. Wiz,
Walt Williams 08:25
you gotta be able to gage the school you you interested in, or that’s interested in you. First of all, you gotta love who loves you, you know, love them back, you know. And so if it’s a school that that you want to go to, or what have you, but they’re not recruiting you. Hey, it is what it is. Yeah, if you have other schools that are interested, love one of them, okay, and so, but at this at the same time, you gotta look at the roster and see where you fit in. Will you be able to play right away? Is there a high chance that you’ll be able to do that, to be able to display your skill set. I know in this day and age when you’re getting money, when I was an NBA player, that was the first time I was receiving money to play, right? And so when I was in that environment, and everybody around me, it was for the most part, who wants to offer me the most money? So when you’re talking about these kids now, in a college scenario, it’s foolish for me to think to myself, Oh, be loyal to the school. And you know that that going down that road when it’s when I know when I was in that position, and any guys that I knew around me that were in that position of receiving money. You know, that was a factor. It wasn’t just about the loyalty to that particular team or that program or what have you. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 09:52
you needed minutes, especially when you’re a young player, right? Like, if you weren’t getting minutes, you couldn’t get paid at the professional level, and you wanted minutes. When you were a kid, just because you wanted minutes and your ego, and I want the scholarship, and want all that, but then once you start getting paid, and that’s the scale of your minutes that I mean, we talk about this crab five, we say, well, not a lot of depth on the bench. Well, I don’t who’s going to go anywhere and not play and sign up for that,
Walt Williams 10:17
and that’s it. The biggest thing is, you have to be able to play it, because no matter how much money you’re getting, right, if you don’t perform, then hey, that’s going to be in jeopardy. So you gotta make sure you’re in a place where you have the opportunity to perform. And then, you know, start to make all that. And then they’ll weigh in all the other factors that go along with it, in this, in this day and age, depending on what your family situation is, what your environment is, because everybody’s personal situation is different. So that’s a part of it, too. So it’s a lot of different factors that go into it. And you know, you gotta listen to folks that have your best interest at heart. You know, whether it’s things that you want to hear or things you might not want to hear. So it’s just about what you need to hear. And so you gotta be able to surround yourself with folks that you trust, that that can help you navigate these, these new waters.
Nestor Aparicio 11:15
Walt Williams is the wizard. He is here talking little Terps basketball on the eve of March Madness. We hope it’s a long ish run, and Grand Canyon on Friday, we’re going to be pizza Johns if you catch this on the backside of that. I want to make it at least sensible for the big picture of watching these changes from, let’s be honest, Gary and what that was in the ACC detergent. And we’re going to go to the Big 10. And now the Big 10 includes USC and God knows who, whoever else. And and then the whole paradigm shift of COVID, the N i L, paying players, and then a coach, not really being as much a coach as much as being a general manager and an executive in regard to money. And n i L, and the whole notion that had you decided to go into coaching instead of broadcasting and being private citizen Wiz, that your whole life would change. And I think we seen that with Larry nega and, you know, I see all these coaches on TV now on the weekends, and I’m like, That guy’s in the prime of his career. Why is he not in Villanova? Oh, he didn’t want to do this anymore. And I know Gary’s, you know, made mention of the wins of money changing the game and players changing and all of that. But do you recognize it whiz? You’re much more on the inside of it. Does it feel as different on the inside as it does to me on the outside I only watching on television these days?
Walt Williams 12:38
Oh yeah, it definitely feels different. You know, it’s a new team year to year. You know, you’re used to watching a kid like like Juju. He’s an anomaly in this day and age, but you used to before this environment. You used to watching kids come in as a freshman and watch them grow and ultimately finish up as a senior, or maybe go on to the next level in their junior senior year or something. But you definitely feel a connection with them. You identify with having them, having been there, seeing their career happen. But that doesn’t happen nowadays. It’s just, you know, it’s such a transition. And I think the biggest thing is, if you could just go into the portal and you had to recruit players and and be able to fill in your roster that way. I don’t think that’s such a big deal. I think the biggest thing is that you have to recruit your own players. I mean that that has to be an incredible environment to be in to after the season, you know you have to recruit your your player, all over again. I mean, I think that will have to affect the way you coach, knowing that at the end of the season you have to renegotiate, or what have you, whatever it is you do. I mean, you know, it’s just crazy that you hit that you hit it on the head. You need a general manager at the at the college level, to be able to manage the money that you have, the pool of money that you have to be able to give to these kids from year to year, and manage that process. I mean, it just takes it to a whole another level. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 14:15
I think Under Armours involvement in plank and what it’s meant for Maryland, and even rich guys like Bucha that can throw money in if he wants to, to make the team good. And that’s boosters. I’m just talking about Maryland boosters, right and but for where the program is and where college sports is, Maryland’s uniquely position, you know, to at least be able to compete at a level we can sit here March Madness weekend to talk about four seed West escaping, getting through it all, but Maryland has a chance to win, you know, Towson and cop and don’t, to win a national champion. You know what I mean? Like a little bit of that George Mason, a little bit of that Butler, a little bit of that where Gonzaga came from, has changed now. I’ve had two saint. On adventures of grads on this week, in regard to, you know, bringing woes there and and how little places, even little Duke back in the day and little George down before John Thompson got there, that there, this is a little bit of a fire starter in a different way for money and sports and universities to put themselves on the map, but it does feel like in football, Alabama and Oklahoma are, you know, going to have a hell of an advantage, and the same thing would be true. And for basketball royalty,
Walt Williams 15:31
yeah, well, I think that when you’re talking about at the basketball level, you have these mid majors that are, you know, when they come, when it comes tournament time, they show that, you know, it’s not that that big of a drop off. You know, the parody is, is just unbelievable, and it’s because of the day and age. You go into that portal. Guys are sitting there who, who are not getting picked up. You know, every one of them can’t get picked up. So some just sit there. And so now you can pick off guys who are d1 players, maybe major d1 players, but now they have to play at the mid major and really showcase that they are a level up. And so you have those guys now playing at the mid major level, and then you combine that with most of those guys at that level are not leaving. They’re not one and dones. So those teams tend to have older, more mature teams, you know. But sometimes there’s the anomaly because of, like a Auburn, I mean, that’s a that’s a old team right there, you know? And so sometimes you can get have these major d1 teams, have these really old teams like that as well.
Nestor Aparicio 16:45
Has it changed it for you, when teams come into college park, you know, like, I don’t just mean Iowa or Nebraska or whatever, just in a general sense, because I think the Michigan State thing’s real, you know, I mean Michigan’s real. There’s a little bit of the, you know, I think Penn State on in a minute, one way or another, because of the rivalry part of it. But I, you know, I miss it like you probably missed the traditional ACC. I think older folks would say it that way, but it’s never going back, but where it is right now, and familiarity, and seeing the gym not always empty down there, and seeing kids that may or may not be interested. I worry for all of it, whiz. I mean, seriously, I’m less interested than I’ve ever been. As I get older. That should worry them, because I’m, yeah, I’m a guy here talking about Elmore and and McMillan and, you know, back in the day, and, you know, Reggie Jack, just those teams in the 70s. And then when you came along, I, you know, I want to see them prosper, but I want to see everybody around me in on it. And I don’t know that I feel that way about it anymore.
Walt Williams 17:46
Well, yeah, I think that. I think they go to just like I said earlier. You know, when you when you see a kid come from his freshman year to a senior year, you become more attached. You know, in this environment, when that the team changes from year to year, there’s really no attachment to it. And so now, and it’s, you know, hey, the school. And so I think that’s where you know, to just kind of go off a little bit, and then another, another. Go off on another
Nestor Aparicio 18:17
road. You go on any road you want. Wiz Go ahead. No, I believe that I like learning from you, to be honest with you, really, you know, I think when
Walt Williams 18:26
you compare women’s basketball in college as compared to men, I think you know that gap has been closed so much over the last few years. I mean, I argue that you have just as many folks watching, you know, the tournament with the women’s and women’s colleges men. And I believe the reason why they’ve closed the gap is because, on a men’s side of the equation, I think they believe that people you know, watch because of the school and the tradition of the school. That’s very rare, right? I think, and I think that’s reserved for people who went to that school, who are alum, but to the masses, people gravitate to the individual. And I think the women know that. You know the individuals in women college basketball along with the team, but you know individual players, and on the College men’s side, not so much. You know, you don’t know these guys as individuals. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 19:24
I told my wife, Caitlin Clark’s playing down at the CFG Bank Arena for Indiana. She’s like, wow. And I’m like, and, you know, Towson played down at their little gym, the mystics Gym, in the CAA tournament a couple weeks ago. And I went saw Angel Reese play over Coppin. You know, year you’re two months ago, whatever it was. I mean, I have been, I have been to as many women’s games as men’s games, and I don’t know that I covered women’s game basketball back in the day, but I can’t say it’s been a minute, and I would agree with you on that, that it certainly comes to news programs and commercials in that sort of way, in a. Way that women’s soccer came on board after brandy Chastain, right? Hey,
Walt Williams 20:04
look the Terps. The people around the country are talking about the Terps. You know, why crab five not University of Maryland? I mean, I love the school, believe me, I love the University of Maryland. But nobody cares if you’re not an alum, it’s about crab five that name is marketable. Now you’re talking about these five individuals and what they’re doing out here, and the special thing that those individuals are doing out there collectively as a team too, because it’s five guys, but it’s not the university that’s being marketed to the masses. It’s that those guys, and I think that if they were to do things like that, you could see the college level, the college viewership, just go to another level, because these guys can play, you know, it’s an athletic game. It’s an exciting game. But I tell you what, you know, I think the women, they do a better side on that, that side of the equation of marketing, those individuals, and it makes you go, Oh, man, I want to see, I want to see Juju play. I want to see Paige play. You know, hey, of course, we’ll see Yukon who wins the game. But that individual is who I want to see. Well, Walt Williams
Nestor Aparicio 21:22
is here. I got him just on the front end. When he goes into the it’s like the back cave, the wizard cave. To do nothing but watch basketball, wall to wall all weekend long. Do you have it? You do have, like, a little thing that you do every year, because, you mean, you’re real basketball guy. I would think this is, you know, like a high holy holiday this weekend, right?
Walt Williams 21:40
You know, hey, I just going to in the living room right there, behind me, back there, man, and get it up on the big screen and, you know, flip channel to channel, just watching all the games, because it’s, it’s an unbelievable time the year. You know, it’s nothing like it. It’s, you know, all day type of thing, man. So I do that from time to time myself, or sometimes I’m in the office, I might have my TV on in the background, being able to take care of business, but also get a peek at what’s going on. Now
Nestor Aparicio 22:11
look, man, it’s been 30 years plus for you, but you know, you were here during a time when things were a little tough for Gary. People could Google that, look all that up if they want. Man, I’d like to think that if Dean Smith came calling in a portal, or coach, you know, shefsky, that you would not have left Maryland, but you would have had a whole different thing going on, right? I mean, it would have been crazy, especially player like you, because everybody would, you know what I mean, you you were a special guy on a team that didn’t look, you know, like you would have been vulnerable in the in the old way, right? So check
Walt Williams 22:41
this out right here. When I was going through that situation, the choice was being able to be seen on national TV with with the teams that were recruiting me all over again, or staying with the team that brought me here. And you know, the real shit won’t be there as much, but I’m with my boys, and we’ll get it done anyway. You know, that was, those were the decisions for me then. But if you, if you throwing into the mix like, hey, look this, this, this school can give you 1 million, and this school give you 4 million, or things like that. I came from humble beginnings, you know, and so well, wouldn’t
Nestor Aparicio 23:22
have been any different than being a free agent when you were 25 right? Want to give you this, or, you know, Detroit wants to give you, you go wherever the money is, right, but, but
Walt Williams 23:30
absolutely, the church would have had a serious advantage. They they wouldn’t had to match, match the match things. But, you know, it had been pretty close, like I said, you know, just coming from humble beginnings, just trying to make a living and and do wonderful things for my family. That’s a part of the decision making process as well. So I didn’t have to make that type of a decision that wasn’t a part of my process. So I, you know, I couldn’t, I couldn’t say what 100% certainty, what I what decision I would have made under these circumstances?
Nestor Aparicio 24:02
Did you have a number two? Was there another place you were going
Walt Williams 24:06
to go? I grew up a Georgetown Hoya fan, you know, but they didn’t recruit me until, you know, after my sophomore year, when we went through those situation in Maryland, the sanctions and things. So they recruited me then, but not out of high school. So by that time, you know, I saw Len Baez, I became a big, big Turk fan. And you know, I had my brothers, I had went into the battle with for two years. So it was no way I was leaving him. Walt
Nestor Aparicio 24:36
Williams is here. He never left. He’s still here. I still run into all the streets of Baltimore. You can listen to his work and follow him everywhere. He’s always doing good things out in the community as well. And I love the conversation. I you know, before I let you, they have a chance to win, right? I mean, what’s the pathway for them to navigate this? I mean, they’re clearly good enough, and then they get the floor driven on them. I’m over Costas in Dundalk when that happened. In the Michigan game. I’m like, you know, I mean, that’s college basketball. I mean, Game of runs 19 in a row, and they get back in, they almost win the game, but they just got to be more consistent than that.
Walt Williams 25:10
Yeah, you look at a team like Michigan, I mean, they’re pretty rare in that you subbing five guys in at a time, at times, and you don’t lose anything. There’s no superstars on that team, but they all bring the same thing to the table in terms of what they can do offensively. Of course, Izzo teams are going to give great effort on the defensive end and be tough and rebound the ball and do the Grammy work. And so when you can run five guys in and then a new five. And you I think that’s a problem for the Terps when you’re talking about having a crab five who have to do majority of the work. But other than that, you know, I think that the bench scoring, to me, is minimal. If the bench can come over and play solid defensively, rebound the ball, run the floor, finish. Finish when, when they have opportunities in transition, or when, when you break the defense down, because you always want to have a start or two or three on the floor majority of the time. You know, I don’t care who, what team you’re playing for. It’s just that this the starters do the bulk of the scoring. So you have two or three guys on the court at all times that is capable of giving you 20 plus points. I think that’s unique. I don’t think you have a starting five or five guys on the team that can do that, you know, and so I think that’s what the church pose on the on the offensive end. I think they match up and and can adapt to any environment. The key to me is defensively. What? What are they doing defensively? If they can be consistent on a defensive end like they’ve been in the previous two years? And will, it’s since will it has been here. Coach will have been here then, man, I think they can cause a problem for anyone. Interesting
Nestor Aparicio 27:07
draw out west, you know, Florida out there, St John’s, Texas Tech, you know, some other teams, I sort of they’re going to have to win some big games. And certainly over the weekend, we saw him try to do that out in Indianapolis. Wall Williams is here. He is forever, the wizard, forever a tarp. And I’m not gonna, you know, make you sing the Maryland fight song or anything like that, but, but this could be a fun little run, and I think that everybody realizes teams good enough, certainly interesting enough, that we’re gonna be tuning in on Friday, hopefully into Sunday, into next week, where’s always great to visit with you. Man, it’s been a little it’s been a minute, and I don’t get down to College Park as much as I used to, but maybe I’ll bump into you like Timonium Hunt Valley, maybe somewhere per top side of the beltway. Um, we’ll, uh, we’ll catch a game together. I get shot and have a crab cake one day. All right, absolutely, brother, I see you around. I’m always intimidated by these tall guys like you. You know, I had this great picture of you and me and Jim McKay, do you remember this? He was in the studio over at the Sheridan in town. He came to he Jim McCain, listened to my show, and he wanted to come in and do the show. And the day he came in, you were there, and I have this picture of us, and I think you were wearing a bunch of feely gear. I think if I remember back in the day, yeah, back in the
Walt Williams 28:18
day, this is back I didn’t have a contract then. So, you know, I was wearing whatever
Nestor Aparicio 28:22
free agent baby, just like they do in the n i L, you know, early n i L, uh, what way I’m gonna share that? I’m gonna find that picture, meet you in the Great Lake, Jim McKay, and share that out long friendship with Walt Williams. We go back last century. It’s been about 30 years. And much like, Hey, before we go, do you have anything you want to say with John Feinstein, I was all ready to wrap it, and I thought, Oh, my God, I’ve been talking about John this week. Anything on John,
Walt Williams 28:47
you know, John? John is a incredible, incredible person, man, you know, I thought that he was someone who, someone to be respected in this business, you know. I mean, you know, I can’t say enough. I, I didn’t know him that well, but I had a couple of opportunities to be around him, and he’s always been cool guy to be around in my presence, man. So, you know, hats off to him for sure.
Nestor Aparicio 29:17
Yeah, he was, you know, always around the Terps program, and Gary, and I had him with the Ravens in the book, and I’ve been paying tribute to him all week. And I figured, I figured you had robbed elbows with John Feinstein at some point. Walt Williams, the wizard Go Terps this weekend, we’ll see you. Peach Jones on Friday. I’m Nestor. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stopped talking Baltimore. Positive. You.
