Going into October without Grayson

It wasn’t shocking or even unexpected news but not having Grayson Rodriguez over the next month could really hurt the Baltimore Orioles chances of winning the World Series. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Birds’ difficult path to the kind of playoff pitching they’ll need from Corbin Burnes, Zach Eflin, Dean Kremer and bullpen that has been anything but “lights out.”

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

pitching, bullpen, week, talking, orioles, play, pitchers, baseball, team, throwing, elias, years, series, game, corbin, yankees, injury, win, burns, batista

SPEAKERS

Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:01

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Welcome home. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, Baltimore, positive. We are a positively taking the Maryland crab cake tour back out on the road. This week, we will be at Costas in Dundalk on Friday, I’ll be wearing long sleeves, and it’s getting to be that time of the year. We got a big football game. Got a big baseball game. I will have Raven scratch offs to give away on Friday. Acosta will also be reconvening at some point during the baseball play. Also, we hope the Orioles are still a part of on October the 11th, will be at Pizza John’s in Essex. It’s Luke’s birthday next week. It’s my birthday two weeks from now, we’ve decided to eat pizza and crab cakes and cheesesteaks and those delicious crinkle cut fries, and they’ll probably get Lucas scoop of strawberry ice cream or whatever. What’s your favorite ice cream? I don’t even know you mint chocolate chip, guy, don’t

Luke Jones  00:47

I don’t know your ice cream. Oh no, no, no no, not mint chocolate chip. In fact, that’s the funny, uh, joke with my family. My dad, years and years ago, thought mint chocolate chip was my favorite, and it was it so that that

Nestor Aparicio  00:58

joke is carried. The last time you’ve had mint chocolate chip? I mean, have you when I was a kid?

Luke Jones  01:02

I mean, I don’t

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Nestor Aparicio  01:03

get you some mint chocolate chip. Then, no, no, no, I

Luke Jones  01:05

don’t like mint. I don’t like mint flavored things. I won’t need it. The only mint flavored thing that I will have is gum

Nestor Aparicio  01:14

or a little bit vanilla ice cream in a kitty cup for Luke Jones in Essex on his first birthday. I

Luke Jones  01:19

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like a regular, regular chocolate chip, ice cream I like, but I’m gonna get you whatever you

Nestor Aparicio  01:24

want. It’s your birthday. If you want pepperoni, get pepperoni. You want mushroom, you get mushroom. Eat pizza. Whatever you want. October 11, we’re gonna do that. Our friends at Jiffy Luke. They power Luke up, Luke’s kitty. I mean, like we wake up this week and I had all my old news American editors, all the guys are my serious OG the people that taught me how to teach you, right? Like, literally, these people that were huge in my life. I said, we just have these budget meetings about what’s the headline and what’s not and we wake up every day. This is one of those times where, like, you know, is it Tyler Linderman, is it the one and two raise it how good the bills are, or is it? Are we getting ready for the playoffs? And what happened to Grayson Rodriguez? And it’s been a whirlwind week for sports here, and I, I hope it continues for the next month. I hope that we squeeze something out of the baseball thing we haven’t really squeezed out of here since 1997 to, you know, play for most of the month to get to that level. But Meantime, Grayson Rodriguez, we’ve been questioning, wondering bullpen on the side, When’s he going to pitch? And it turns out, as you broke on the wnst tech service, the all new and improved wnst tech service, this is, you know, it’s problematic, but it’s not shocking. Yeah, it’s

Luke Jones  02:40

not shocking. I mean, what was it two and a half weeks ago when we started asking the question, I mean, when is this going to progress? I mean, he’d been throwing bullpens for a couple weeks now, I saw him throw a bullpen even during the last home stand. I don’t think he necessarily was a setback, as much as it’s a latch strain. And I said this at the time in early August. I mean, keep in mind, this was an injury, similar injury that sidelined him for three months two years ago when he was on the cusp of being called up to the major leagues in what early June of 2022 so I think this was always a possibility. Now, the Orioles remained optimistic, and we’re trying to get him back. And you know, if this had occurred maybe two or three weeks earlier than it did, maybe if it occurred at the All Star break, let’s say I think there was probably a better chance that he would be back. But Mike Elias, he was reading the tea leaves a little over a week ago when he spoke to the media at the or in the dugout at Camden Yards to start the last homestand that he acknowledged they were running out of time. They were running out of days. They were running out of calendar, however you want to describe it. And when he didn’t join the club on the trip, I still hadn’t been facing live hitters. I think I even said to you a couple days ago, I think we’ve reached a territory now where you don’t expect it until we hear some progress that he’s facing live hitters, throwing live BP, throwing a sim game, something like that. And lo and behold, Brandon Hyde announced Wednesday, prior to the game, that Grayson Rodriguez has been shut down for the remainder of 2024 as it pertains to his career. I think it’s probably the smart move, right? I mean, you don’t want to rush him back. He’s still important to their future, even if you continue to have some questions here about his durability and all of that. And I think this

Nestor Aparicio  04:30

decision is, if he can’t get guys out two weeks from now, you just have to admit it and say, and that’s he can’t do it, and that’s not the injuries are. I mean, Bradish can’t do it right now. And means you know, none of those guys can do it either. And I think the lat strength thing, when we talk about max effort, and we talk about max effort one time, go do anything with your body one time and see how it makes you feel the next morning. You know, at max effort and thinking about what, the shoulder, the elbow, the body, the leg strength that. Kick the back, just everything that needs to be involved in playing major league base. But once I get older, you don’t know anything about this. You’re about to celebrate a young birthday, but I’m getting older, you know, it’s like, it’s an incredible thing to be 28 and to be able to do that, and to wake up every day healthy, and whatever Cal Ripken did for 17 years, you know, whatever, how crazy that was. 14 years. Whatever it was, not missing a game, not missing a day, not missing an inning, in large cases, that’ll just never be done again. But it is weird with modern science, as much as they Jim Palmer would say they baby these guys, right? Like, literally, how troublesome all of it is from, you know, investment standpoint, pitching standpoint, fan standpoint, the the kids that are getting hurt, like, just all of it, but it, it’s really affected this franchise in a way that, like, we’re going to beat up Elias and you’re going to say you didn’t get enough bullpen, and when they didn’t want don’t win the World Series, whatever happens next month. But, like I would, it’s, it’s not uncanny. I mean, they should be figuring out how they’re training these guys and doing that across the industry, um, chewing them up in the way that Billy Martin did 30 years ago with Keo and, you know, those guys he had. But whatever this is for the Orioles, it’s, it’s, it’s a shame, that’s all. I mean, he’s their Jim Palmer, right? This is Jim Palmer not being able to pitch in 66 and Palmer had those problems back in the 60s. Pearl of the back of the baseball cards and the history that I hear and know, but it’s a shame, that’s all. It’s just a shame. Pradish, isn’t it’s a shame. Means arm fella. I mean, like, it’s a shame Batista last year, because you’ll write the book on it, you know, because you’re the baseball guy. But this really could have, this could have been crazy next week, if they might have, not have needed F I mean, just all sorts of things that happen that if they win the World Series ever under Elias. This is a heck of a story, in a storyline about this kid who was going to be the best pitcher, not just not being available

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Luke Jones  07:06

well. And it’s a lesson and a reminder that these rebuilds, and when you get out of a rebuild and you’re in a position to win, and you win 101 games, and you have the number one seed, and then you get swept to in the Division Series, and then you go out and acquire an ace in the off season, not everything goes to plan. And it doesn’t mean it’s going to be linear, and it doesn’t mean that you’re not going to have setbacks and bumps in the road. I mean, the second half of the season, just from a performance standpoint, is a great lesson of that. Butchman,

Nestor Aparicio  07:36

it better be a bump in the road for him. It better not be anywhere near what it’s going to happen for him, you know what I mean, because some of it’s been off the cliff a little bit in not just injury, but just in actual performance, and saying, Where are you going to be? And the good news is they got next week to, you know, rectify it. Gunner Henderson is trying to rectify it New York already this week. Well,

Luke Jones  07:56

I mean, we can get to Adley rutschman in a moment. But just to finish the thought, I mean, I think back to when they acquired Corbin burns, at the time, Orioles fans, and the Orioles, even if they’re at that point, there was some knowledge about what was going on with Kyle Bradish. And we had known John means had been shut down right before the postseason last year, but Corbin burns, Kyle Bradish, Grayson, Rodriguez, John means, that was imagined, that was envisioned, that was it was going to go next week, right? And literally, they literally got one of them to mid August, let alone October. So, I mean, it’s just pitching fragile. And I don’t say that to make an excuse for the Orioles specifically, but look across the industry. I mean, look at other teams. Look at the Atlanta Braves. Look at other teams that have been ravaged by pitching injuries. I mean, the Astros dealt with it a ton early in the season. It’s a big reason why they have the record they do right now, which is was still good enough to win the West. But they’re not the number one seed or the top, you know, top two seed getting a first round by even though it’s coming come to into form and looks way better now than it than it had, but it’s tough. That’s why you need as much depth as possible. That’s why, you know, one thing that we’ve talked about some and I think we’ll continue to talk about whether the Orioles make a deep October run or not, is, I do think this organization probably needs to pivot and make a put a greater emphasis on developing their own pitching at this point in time, because, you know, you kind of see what happens, and we know they’ve gone very College, hitter heavy early in drafts, so over the course of the Elias era, which, because

Nestor Aparicio  09:30

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that’s what sigma tells blackjack book tells him to do, tells him to stick on stuff, you know, I mean, like,

Luke Jones  09:38

hurt the hitters don’t. But you need pitching like you can’t just trade

Nestor Aparicio  09:42

for that. We’ll pay for that. We’ll buy Zach Eflin. We’ll buy Corbin. I

Luke Jones  09:46

hear what you’re saying, but, but

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Nestor Aparicio  09:47

now you have to pay gunner Henderson. I

Luke Jones  09:49

got you. I hear what you’re saying, but at the same time, we’re talking about a rotation that is barely holding on at this point. I mean, Zach Eflin is the number two, and he just issued a. Rear High Five walks on Wednesday night. Now I’m not saying that that means he’s hurt or that he’s doomed or anything like that, but Let’s call a spade a spade. Everyone’s optimistic because they’ve taken two from the Yankees great the bats have come alive the last couple days. But if I told you a month ago, this is what their playoff rotation was going to look like, let alone a couple months ago, you wouldn’t be talking about optimism, making a deep run and going to the World Series. It’s just it is what it is now. Dean Kramer has pitched well, Albert Suarez has been a great story. You hope that they can continue that, but we’ve also seen the last couple nights, even when you score runs, this is a grind, having to use 456, relievers and how many of those relievers are you going to trust to be able to do that multiple times as you get into this? So it’s a challenge, it’s a slog, it’s a grind, I mean, and it’s going to be even Corbin burns. I mean, it’s not someone that throws eight or nine innings every time he goes out there, even even as an ace. So my point is, with that, not that it’s impossible or not that they won’t be able to do it, but this is another blow to the upside, right? I

Nestor Aparicio  11:07

mean, they’re going to need better performance than what we’ve seen. That’s all. They’re going to have to play above the mean for a month. I mean, literally, from where they were. Dude, that being said, I look up, you know, I was at Cooper’s North grabbing a delicious chicken Sammy watching the game on Wednesday night, and, you know, Westies back and Mounties back. And I make fun of that, because it’s just like that. The more I watch the local performance. And hey, once next week starts and Ben McDonald’s not there anymore, and I got some jack wagon on TBS, or John Smoltz, or, you know, who’s not a jack wagon, by the way, I like John, but you know the the love in with the team and all of that at the it’s not Who’s that guy anymore. These guys are back now how they’re going to perform, but they are a different team than they were two weeks ago. You will admit that that westburg provides some straw that stirs a drink in some way.

Luke Jones  12:01

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Of course, I I’m not just because I’m laying out what I’m concerned

Nestor Aparicio  12:06

about. The World Series. Do you think they can win the World Series or not? Because I think they negative around here, and I can’t have that. How you going to work? Get a job in mass, and if you’re going to be down on the Orioles like this, when this thing, can

Luke Jones  12:18

they win a World Series? Of course, because anyone that’s going to be in this tournament can win a World Series, if you want my objective opinion on whether I think they’re going to have enough pitching to make that deep of a run, no, I don’t think that that said, with burns and effluent, they can certainly win a wild card series. They can certainly go to Yankee Stadium and win a Division Series, because we’ve seen them even without them even without burns pitching in games one or two that they can do that if they’re going to swing the bats. But my point about them

Nestor Aparicio  12:49

avoiding Cleveland or New York or whatever I’m thinking like, how they gonna beat Detroit next week? No how they gonna beat school, right?

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Luke Jones  12:55

But, but if you want my honest assessment, my honest opinion on whether that what they have, from a pitching standpoint, is going to hold up to win four different series or to win three to get to the World Series. I don’t feel great about that, but again, I would have said the same thing about the Texas Rangers at this time a year ago. I would have said similar I would have had off. Wouldn’t even have talked about the Arizona Diamondbacks at this time a year ago. So you don’t know. And that’s what makes talking about the

Nestor Aparicio  13:21

Detroit Tigers three weeks ago, right? And the talking about them three weeks from now, because they got a guy that can go out and stuff the bats up your ass in game one and steal game one, you know what I mean. And all of a sudden things happen when you can do that. We need to make sure Corbin burns and Zach Eckel, somebody’s gonna be that guy next week. Well.

Luke Jones  13:38

And at the same time, the Tigers have been so good in the month of September, they can have a bad 24 hours at Camden Yards next week. Or, you know, however it shakes out, because Kansas City is still right there as well and be done, right? I mean, we saw this at the Orioles last year. They won 101 games, even with the Batista injury. They held together so well, so admirably, in the month of September that you still thought, hey, they they can do this, because they’ve continued to do this the last five weeks. And then they got to the Division Series, and it was over like that. I mean, we barely had time to get barbecue at three places.

Nestor Aparicio  14:14

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Pepper. I went to Texas and didn’t get a Dr Pepper, that’s

Luke Jones  14:17

what. So, so again, that’s not to that’s not to throw cold water on it, and it’s not to say that they can’t make a deep run, but you just don’t know. And the Yankees are a great example of that. On Wednesday, Nestor Cortez set the you think is going to start the game, and he’s got a an elbow that’s barking, and suddenly you wonder if he’s going to be back for any of the postseason, let alone the Division Series, let alone certainly not starting on Wednesday night. And then you see what Marcus Stroman does, and the Orioles just tee off on him. So you don’t know. I mean, all of this is so fragile, and it’s not the same as a team losing their franchise quarterback. There’s no player even, even an ace pitcher, doesn’t hold that. Kind of a, you know, doesn’t move the needle that much in terms of their absence or their performance in general. But boy, it can change quickly. You know, it can change quickly if a team star player there turns his ankle on Thursday or Friday or Saturday, whether it’s a meaningful game or, you know, just out there trying to stay sharp. So there’s so much that we don’t know, and that’s why you asked me, Can they do that? Yeah, of course, that can happen. Do I think that’s the most likely outcome in terms of a deep, deep run with with this pitching staff, with how much attrition they’ve suffered, that’s where I have a tough time. But if they swing the bats the way they have the last couple nights. And to your point, yeah, Jordan westburg Looks like Jordan westburg and Ramona Reus looks like Ramona Reuss. And

Nestor Aparicio  15:49

yeah, so yeah, well, I

Luke Jones  15:51

was talking specifically about the offense, all these guys

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Nestor Aparicio  15:53

coming back like I I’m sort of shocked they’re all coming back and looking rounding in that they don’t look lost the way Kobe Mayo looked lost, right?

Luke Jones  16:03

Well, I mean, but Kobe Mayo had never played in the majors westburg, I agree with you, arias. I mean, Arias missed three weeks. That’s not he didn’t miss three months, right? I mean, now Castle missed about a month.

Nestor Aparicio  16:17

Just westburg made a nice play, sure you don’t want a high hop and like, just, he’s one of their best players. He’s

Luke Jones  16:22

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one of their best players. I mean, we talked about this. I mean, that’s why it was so devastating when they lost him the day after the trade deadline. You augment your roster and make all these moves, and then suddenly you lose the guy that’s been your second or third, you know, now I would say second best, because of how, how much rutchman has struggled the second half of the year, at least in terms of 2024, you know, lose your second best player position wise, position player wise, so that’s going to take a toll on anyone. So yeah, when he’s back. I mean, I feel way better about their offense, but yeah, the defense or the pitching. I mean, two, three weeks ago, you were still hoping to have Grayson Rodriguez back in some capacity. You know, the bullpen, it’s better, you know, it’s deeper with Danny cool, I’m assuming he’s right. You need Kano to be right. You know, we know that he’s dealt with the forearm a couple weeks ago he was shaky on Tuesday night when he pitched. You need, Sir Anthony Dominguez to not give up the long ball or issue walks. Hey, Gregory Soto has looked better that that’s a positive. But again, these are a lot of lot of pieces that are either unknowns or guys that you’ve doubted at different points. So

Nestor Aparicio  17:31

the little confidence is for high to say, I’m trying to get these guys more confident. I mean, in their hard hearts, they’re trying to lead these guys. I mean, it’s part of hardball on the sidelines, talking to Justin Tucker and attaboy in and trying to luff these guys up after it’s been a rough slog the last eight weeks. I’ll fluff them up by saying they look like a different team with westburg and ureas. They look like a different team when they’re going to New York and having confidence and not head hunting or being head hunted about the Indians are the best team. The Tigers are playing great right now. Royals are trying to find themselves. Yankees have similar problems. The orals. Mean both these teams go to 105 games if they were constructed. I mean, if the Yankees came out with their full $300 million arsenal, they would have, you know, they’d be further ahead than they are. But that being said, I don’t in any way. Look, I’m going to write Mr. Rubenstein and the Whistler and Katie Griggs and Greg Bader, and I’m going to write Jennifer, whatever her name is. I’m going to write all them a letter. But on the baseball side, I’m not going to be beating up Mike Elias or sigma Dell after half their not half their entire rotation is either in the infirmary or in a sling, like I don’t he built this team to have Bradish means Batista. Now, if you want to beat him up about the training program and what they’re doing to these kids arms, but it’s happening everywhere. It’s not just happening here. So, you know, I, you know, they wanted to beat Harbaugh a couple years ago about his trainer, who was an anti Vax wacko, you know? And nobody’s, everybody’s running around at their germ and each other up. That’s leadership too. Just like John Harbaugh’s penalties are leadership and they’re but the leadership for this team. I can’t blame Mike Elias or sigma del or their training methods for arms falling off when it’s going on everywhere, including my my dude, Nestor Cortez, the real nasty Nestor, with other teams, pitchers, right? The Brewers, pitcher, the rays Phillies pitcher that you know they don’t have their own because their guys arms fell off. Brad’s almost won a Cy Young last year. Means throwing no hitters came back for five minutes and looked like John. Means those arm fell off again. Batista was throwing. I mean, that might have been the best room. Effort we’ve ever seen in the history of the of the franchise, you know, forget Stan house and, you know, whatever. Go look at Zach No. Zach za Britton. Zach

Luke Jones  20:08

Britton had one of the greatest reliever seasons in baseball history. I mean, so, but you’re right. I mean, I’m not going to argue with how great Batista was last year. There’s

Nestor Aparicio  20:17

no way for me to examine them playing baseball and getting eliminated because Dean Kramer’s not good enough, although I’m buying stock on Dean Kramer because he’s got nice hair, and the girls like it, but if they don’t make it, and if Dean Kramer’s not good enough, and Suarez isn’t good enough, and efflon gives up six walks next week, and scoobel goes three hits, and Adley rutschman Looks twisted like a pretzel, and westburg can’t find his timing and like, whatever that happens. I’m not, I’m not going to be the guy. I think you’re going to be tougher on him about not getting enough bullpen. Then I’m going to be to say they got the wrong bullpen. Maybe Sir Anthony and Soto and Webb and these, you know what they have. But the real bullpen was Batista. The real rotation was Bradish, and means and and Wells was going to give him 160 innings this year. And like I, I can’t, as we go into it, I’ll probably write this next week, and I’ll talk about it in every segment. The amount of injuries they’ve had. It’s been unlike anything I’ve seen. And I would, I would put this up for all of your history with the Orioles and mine, which is a little longer than yours, dude, we didn’t have years where Quay are McNally and Palmer and Dobson didn’t pitch. We didn’t have years where McGregor and Flanagan and stone and just mean Dennis Martinez drank his way out of baseball for a little while, and you know Sammy Stewart. You know guys that had problems. We could talk about it 50 years later, but their arms didn’t fall off, and they weren’t unavailable, and I don’t even remember other than failed prospects who had $50 million arms and a 50 cent head, like Rocky Coppinger and guys that were tweeners and guys like Jeff Ballard that were five minutes, like all of these guys I’m mentioning. Rodrigo Lopez, I’m just throwing names after weighing Chad. Pick anybody? Miguel Gonzalez, they didn’t have four. Their starters hurt the same year ever, even when it was who was the pinup girl’s husband, Benson, the Mets guy. I mean, Rena pictures, all of these Doug drabeks, all of the washed up Cy Young guys. I mean, Sammy Sosa wasn’t even hurt when he came here. Raphael Palmeiro, no speaky, he could even play because he was taking steroid get hurt. But I like, I don’t remember anything in the history of the Baltimore Orioles that would look like last year’s five pitchers who were going to take us to the playoffs last year having to literally be completely extracted and sent to the hospital for surgery, and to have the general manager Have to go out and buy $20 million pitchers. Peter’s rolling over in his grave thinking about two $20 million pitchers in the same rotation, you know, with all these cheap baby birds playing like MVPs and rookies of the year and one ones, and they’re all making nothing. Um, I This is a weird thing, and I, I don’t think they’re going to win the World Series, but they can. They might, they might, because they can beat the Yankees, and somebody else can beat the Indians, and somebody else’s arm could fall off, and somebody else could take an inside pitch and have something go wrong, you know, Aaron judge could hurt his back, you know, putting the heat on in the Hilton tonight, you know, or the fourth season, they don’t say to Hilton’s anymore. Um, but I’m not going to get down on them. I just want to say that before it starts, before the Ravens do whatever they’re going to do against the bills, before we go watch baseball next week, and hopefully for a couple of weeks. I don’t want to say they can do no wrong in my mind. But if they take a face or the Tigers beat their ass because they come in with a better picture. I can’t look at michaelized and say you did as dirty and the bullpen wasn’t good enough. And I know that you feel differently a little bit, but I’m i I’m down on their ownership about not giving me a press credential next week, I’ll mention that in the 12th minute of my rant that I’m way more down on how they’re running the place then how Mike Elias is running the baseball team. That’s the best part of their operation. It’s the best part of their operation that they’ve had since I had since I started shaving 35 years ago, the fact that they have these great baseball players, and they make decisions even good enough to get them to the playoffs next week, because the old man, John A would have said, Corbin burns, how much does he cost? You’re dealing for $18 million pitchers at the trading deadline and trading my cheap second baseman away for a bag of donuts. We’re not doing that. Turn Ortiz into a left fielder, and we’ll keep him you. Like, come on, man. I mean, I that’s where I am with because I’ve watched this trash for 30 years. Mike Elias has given them a chance to win next week. So there, there’s my two cents for Mike Elias, who’s also been respectful of me when I’ve been in a room with him. So I don’t have any reason to like him or dislike him. I just think he’s competent. And I think if he’s going to be the fall guy, or Brandon Hyde’s going to be the fall guy, that’s just dumb, that’s dumb fan talk, and I don’t want to hear it. And I’m Let call the fan with that call lock and four with that trash. Don’t call me. So there’s my rent.

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Luke Jones  25:33

I mean, and I know you’re not implying this. I’ve never suggested any of that. Um, at the same time, I don’t think

Nestor Aparicio  25:40

Elias didn’t do it. You think Elias could have done with the bullpen? I’ve

Luke Jones  25:44

been consistent about that, because what I will say is, Felix Batista didn’t go down in spring training. Felix Batista didn’t go down in June. They knew this. They knew this last August. They certainly knew it. By late September and October, they made them they signed Kimbrough. I mean, it was a bad signing. I mean, now again, and I said this when they dfad him a couple weeks ago and they officially released him earlier this week, that I didn’t foresee it going that bad, to the point where Craig Kimbrell wouldn’t even be on the roster. I just told you that he’s not a shutdown closer anymore. So

Nestor Aparicio  26:14

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Thomas and still played playoff game. You know what I mean. And when, like so bad, bad signings that spark things happen.

Luke Jones  26:21

Sure I look, I’m not when I say the what I’m talking about here, this is in no way, is it implying that Mike Elias has done a poor job overall, or anything like that. Far from it. That’d be insane to suggest that at the same time, what I have said is, because of everything you just laid out, and knowing that pitchers break at the frequency that they do across baseball. You better have a lot of it in your system. You better have a lot in your system, because you need a supply. Ozzie Newsome, you can never have enough corners, right? I mean, you can never have enough pitching in your system. And that’s where I look at this and say, maybe with their organizational philosophy, not go so college hitter heavy early on in the draft, and you do need to mix in some more pitching early on in the draft. And you know what? The last couple drafts have reflected that, and now you’re not going to bear the fruit of that a year or two after drafting pitchers in the fourth, fifth, sixth round, but I think we’ve seen them start to adjust in that way. But, you know, I can’t, I’m not faulting them for the state of their rotation. The bullpen is where I’ve said I would have liked to see them do more, but they got Sir Anthony Dominguez, and that’s been a good signing overall, or a good acquisition overall. Certainly won that. You know, the Phillies, even though they have a good back end of the bullpen, they certainly haven’t gotten much from Austin Hayes, who hasn’t been Austin Hayes, who has been able to stay on the field, so a win there. Gregory Soto has actually pitched in a couple semi meaningful spots, you know, certainly very meaningful on Tuesday night and looked okay. So we’ll see how that translates. I mean, you’re talking about someone who, as we talked about when they acquired him, was an all star closer for Detroit a couple years ago. So not, not for a good team, but certainly has pitched in high leverage. So we’re going to see and again, expressing some concerns about their pitching, or wondering whether they’re going to have enough to make a deep run. That’s, you know, that’s absolutely fair, right? I mean, that’s and that doesn’t mean that you hate where they are right now, or that, you know, Elias and sigma Adele have done a poor job, or Brandon Hyde has done a poor job. It’s just, it’s where they are right and I’m actually glad you brought up some of the past examples that you did. I mean, go back to the early days of the franchise. The Orioles had a kiddie core of young pitchers, you know, with Paul Richards and, you know, you go back to the early 60s, they had lots of pictures that got hurt. That’s why I pushed back on when people always talk about all these pictures that they romanticize it through 350 innings in a season, it’s like, Yeah, you remember them because they weren’t the ones who got hurt and had season or had career ending injuries. Those injuries happened back then too. Maybe not. You know, it wasn’t as glaring, because there was no Tommy John surgery, until very recently. We was the anniversary of Tommy John. And

Nestor Aparicio  29:07

I would also bring up those Mets guys, Pulsifer isring housing they had, you know, there’s been some of that. I mean, look Nolan, Ryan and JR Richard never got it done in Houston, right? So, like pictures, that’s the industry, but it’s worse than it’s ever been. My point more money, more science, more medicine, more everything. And by far, they’ve effed up their industry because they’re there. They are not. They’ve gone the wrong way on injuries, where the NFL is trying to at least lie to you about concussion this, and protocol that, and we’re doing this, and the helmets are better, and we’re doing, you know, we’re getting guys to the field and Damar Hamlin will never happen again, like whatever they’re pitching you. I made a pun, um, my eighth grade Janice miles, my eighth grade English. She should be really happy. With that, because she’s listening now. But I would say the pitch for baseball needs to be whatever they’re doing. They need to do it better. Because they’re they’re screwing their they’re screwing their own postseason up by not having them. I’ve been watching the postseason forever, all my life. I I’ve never seen anything like this, where Nestor Cortez isn’t going to be available next week. Guys arms are falling off. You’d say it, it’s happened. But that’s not how Jack Morris had a career. That’s not how Palmer had a career. That’s, I mean, Strasburg is a great example of he should still be pitching, but, but the industry over the last 15 years, and how much they pay these guys, I mean, even, even the the great pictures for the Dodgers and the giants that fall apart every year in October and make $200 million they’re not pitching, um, it to their 38 or 40, right? I mean, like, Messina pitched pretty late, and I think that’s going to padding stats and stuff and Hall of Fame stats. I don’t know how many’s going to get the 200 wins you when? Yeah, I mean, like, literally, we were talking about 300 being at the lineator that keep that kept Tommy John and and Don Sutton and these guys out of the Hall of Fame. Dude, I talk baseball all day. I know we don’t, we don’t get after this much, but I it is disheartening being a fan of the Orioles being at this point and saying, Look at what Michael is had to do just to get major league pitchers $40 million give away the farm system, just to be able to pitch on Tuesday and Wednesday, because if he didn’t do that, they wouldn’t be here, because Kate Povich wasn’t gonna get it done, you know, right? Well, and,

Luke Jones  31:34

and let’s be clear, they needed an ace, right? I mean, they needed to go out and get Corbin burns, and that would and what you’re just saying. They drafted all this position talent with the idea that they would trade some of it for pitching. So that’s not, it’s not as though Corbin Burns was the result of any of these guys going down. It’s, you know, it ruined your upside behind him, right? Uh, Corbin Burns is an ace, a former Cy Young Award winner, has looked excellent his last couple times out. Seems like he’s, you know, he’s even talked about it, fixing his cutter a little bit, and getting it back to where it was. But, you

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Nestor Aparicio  32:07

know, all the money in the world trying to go for old kids, but, but at the end of the day, if they can’t pitch when they’re 24 I think the philosophy their sigma Dell’s blackjack is this is a better way to do it then Ben, you need pitching, though, like, I agree with you. You

Luke Jones  32:26

keep saying that, but, like, I understand what you’re saying, but that means then you’re not going to have pitching, because inherently it’s going to continue to break. And you just That’s why you need as much as possible, because not every pitcher does break, or pitchers have broken once, and then they stay healthy after that. But you just said it, this is more than a Major League Baseball problem. If you talk to James Andrews and all the different you know, Meister and go, go down the list of the, you know, I actually saw will Carroll wrote a, you know, he’s got his injury blog that he, you know, his own injury subscription newsletter. And he was writing about this the other day with it being the anniversary of Tommy John surgery. And, you know, you look at the it’s roughly about eight to 10 orthopedic sports doctors who perform all these Tommy John surgeries for professionals, you know, talking major leaguers, minor leaguers, you know, maybe even high profile college pitchers. But James Andrews has talked about this for years. I mean, go, look at the landscape of youth baseball. I mean, you have 13 and 14 year olds getting caught on right? I mean, this is, this is more than a Major League Baseball problem to solve. I mean, this is Major League Baseball, this is college baseball, this is high school baseball. This is youth baseball. I mean, it’s an entire culture of velocity and spin and break and breaking balls and look, I just saw it came across the other day. I saw a tweet, I wish I had bookmarked it, because I can’t, probably wouldn’t be able to find it at the moment, but it talked about the home run per number of pitches of a certain velocity, right? It looked at the number of home runs per 93 mile per hour fastballs, the number of home runs per 9490 590-697-9899, 100 and you know what? The harder pitchers throw, the more difficult it is to hit, the more spin they put on the ball, the more difficult it is to hit, the more horizontal and vertical break they put on the ball, the more difficult it is to hit. So I hear everything you’re saying, and I don’t disagree with you, and at the end of the day, however, these pitchers know that this is what gets them as makes them as successful as they’ve been. Tyler glass now has talked about this. I mean, someone who’s got a bum elbow again. Other high profile pictures have talked about this. I mean, where’s the cutoff this? This isn’t performance enhancing drugs in the sense that these guys are doing anything illegal or against the rules, but at the same time, it’s the same principle in terms of the culture. Or that existed in Major League Baseball from the late 80s through the early 2000s where you have enough people doing this, or you have enough pitchers that are willing to go the extra mile to throw harder and go to driveline or go to personal trainers or personal coaches to to alter your mechanics and get you throwing harder and adding two or three miles per hour on your fastball to say, Okay, well, that’s not going to be me, because I don’t want to get Tommy John surgery. Well, guess what? That guy might get left behind and may not get drafted, or he may not get out of double A or he may not last in the major leagues because he doesn’t throw hard enough. So you have a culture, and again, it’s not like steroids, steroids in the sense where there’s a clearly ethically wrong thing going on here. You know, I don’t think any of this is necessarily wrong from a standpoint of, hey, I’m trying to add two miles per hour onto my fastball if I, you know, if I tweak my mechanics, and I twist my wrist this way, and I torque my arm this way, and I work out this way, and I alter my delivery this way, I can do that, and then that’s going to make me better, and then I’m going to be able to stick in the majors longer, and guess what, I’m going to get to make more money that way. So I don’t know what the perfect solution here is, Nestor Aparicio for baseball. And you know, we’ve really gone way out into the weeds on this, compared to just talking about Grayson Rodriguez, who’s not even dealing with an elbow, but it’s a lat and, you know, that’s connected to

Nestor Aparicio  36:27

the shoulder. Wondering why the oral I think that the conversation is, if the pitching isn’t good enough next month, whose fault is it? What? Why? Why couldn’t they do better in the bullpen? It’s everyone’s fault. I think they it’s everyone sort of an amazing fire culture. It’s amazing that they’re gonna they’re gonna have five or six pitchers who weren’t even in their mind’s eye last Christmas, who they’re gonna rely on next week, and they’re gonna rely on the bats that they’ve grown and, to your point, and gloves that they feel like they kick the ball around a lot this year. They just have, they can’t kick the ball around next week, especially with the kind of pitching they might have late in games and tax as they go along. But i i Could they be better constructed, sure they all could, and I think they have a chance. And I’m going to be bullish on it’s baseball, and let’s see who’s a pile diver. That’s going to be the fun part, right? Let’s, let’s, none of these guys perform well last year, there’s, there’s nobody on this team, to me that has a clean soul to say I can count on that guy. Kind of think Westberg might be the guy that hits 429, next week, because that’s just feels like he’s the pile diver in the pack, to me. And it feels like Henderson’s going to hit 333, and, yeah, you know we’re going to have those averages. I am a little worried about the, you know, the 120 nines and the, oh, 80 fives. And you know who’s going to be the one for 12 person and runners in scoring position, dude, we’ve talked so much about the pitching, we’ll break and we’ll go do some football. Promise me that we’re going to talk about hitting with runners in scoring position after the bills and the Ravens play, and before the Orioles play, whoever they’re going to play. Because, to me, hitting with runners in scoring these this guy’s hit enough. It’s just when they hit, right? Yeah, well,

Luke Jones  38:16

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and let me leave you with one positive, because, you know, I because you ended up talking so much, in a big picture sense, about, Oh, stop, stop with that. You’re being ridiculous.

Nestor Aparicio  38:27

Are you talking that they’re gonna win the World Series?

Luke Jones  38:30

So I do crushes. You’re the one who crushes mass in any, any state run media and things like that. And then you’re, you know, you’re, you’re saying, I’m being negative, just because I’m stating obvious, obvious observations about the state of the pitching style.

Nestor Aparicio  38:43

I call you, but I call you the voice of reason here. So I don’t expect anybody to believe a word I say, although I do make them think about it, I expect you to be the voice of reason. So your voice of reason is, Vegas is going to have them as the third or fourth or fifth choice, because that’s what they are, right?

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Luke Jones  39:02

Probably. And look, I mean, there’s three months of really mediocre baseball to support that, but it’s a clean slate. And I’ll leave you with this because I didn’t, you know. I’m not trying to be negative. I’m trying to look at this and keep it real. First series win for the Orioles against anyone since they took two or three from the White Sox at the beginning of the month, first series win against a team that’s currently over 500 since they went to Seattle July 2 through the fourth. So think about this. This is their first series win against the winning team. There are a couple others that the rays are a few games under 500 for example, but their first legit series win against the winning team since the Fourth of July. So put that into perspective of how challenging these last three months have been. But also, hey, you just took the first two against the Yankees. You’re a win or a. Loss away from clinching the top wild card spot, which they better win, because I don’t know, I don’t know if the Tigers are losing again, especially they play the White Sox. Well, I

Nestor Aparicio  40:08

don’t want them to go on the road. You know what? I mean, I can’t have Monday night. But

Luke Jones  40:13

my point is, they got to win one more game. I mean, they, they should. They can’t count on the Tigers losing one more because, I mean, my goodness, Detroit’s just playing well. But hey, let’s go time. I mean, who knows? It’s a three. It’s a best of three. As I said to you the other day, you could drop the Oakland A’s into this tournament randomly, just as a gift of the city of Oakland. And you know what? They could end up beating a good team, because it’s a three game series. I mean, that’s what we’re talking about. That’s why I’ve said all along. Yes, you’d rather avoid it, that, but if you had the chance to or not, but we’ll see. I mean, we’ll see. Don’t you miss

Nestor Aparicio  40:45

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the one and dones, don’t you miss us or Zach Britton done? Yeah? No, I

Luke Jones  40:49

was it was better, yeah, yeah. It was better from a theater standpoint. But I, as I always said, that was akin to having a a football team go through a 16 game schedule and then playing a playoff game that lasts about seven minutes, you know, like, literally half of a quarter, right? I mean, that’s, that’s, that’s kind of what we were talking about with, with that.

Nestor Aparicio  41:09

Or you set them up and they play that stupid college thing at the 20 yard line, and, yeah, yeah, fades. So, you know, a best of

Luke Jones  41:16

three is still not very representative of, you know, baseball and knowing what can happen and why you play 162 games, but at the very least, I like the higher seed having all three games in their building. So yeah, that’s why it’s so important for the Orioles to secure this top wild card spot. And I think they’re going to, I mean, they’ve got burns going in the finale. And even if they don’t win this finale against the the Yankees, they, you know, going up against the twins team that might not have anything to play for over the weekend. I mean, they’re circling the drain. I mean, they did win Wednesday night, but, you know, we’ll see. I mean, this is Hey, as we said the other day. And even with questions about the pitching or any any questions you might have, let’s enjoy this. From the standpoint of, this is the first time they’ve gone to the playoffs back to back years since I was 14 years old. Nestor, think about that. Gonna be 41 next week since I was 14 years old, was the last time they’ve done this. So Baltimore deserves some prosperity and dream. Of course, it’s not impossible by any stretch of the imagination. But if you’re asking me if I feel, if I feel they have enough pitching to get through the all of October, which is, you know, to play November baseball. I I’d be lying to you if I said I didn’t have my doubts. But there’s plenty of teams over the years that people have had doubts about, and then suddenly they’re they’re raising the trophy a month later. So who knows. That’s why they play the games, and that’s why we all love October baseball. I still

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Nestor Aparicio  42:37

have all my pictures with Eric Davis and Alan mills and Mike bordick and Mike Messina and Elrod in the 1997 not nearly as goggle and viciously oriented as some of these celebrations are. It was. It was a little bit more muted back in Cal ripkens era. It was fun and all that, and there’s some fun pictures, but it wasn’t. I didn’t I got wet, but I didn’t get soaked. So I wasn’t 14 when that happened, and I was, I was in the real media. Then Luke, I know, I know. Hey, you know how that feels. Um, Luke will be covering the games next weekend. He will be covering Sunday night, the bills and the Ravens, the wnst tech service is now back to life. Is brought to you by Cole roofing and Gordian energy bill. Cole skipped out this week, but he did leave behind the tech service. If you want to get on the tech service, it’s really easy. Grab your phone right now and you text 410, 821, w n s t, that’s 9678, and just Text Join. J O, I n, that’s not J O, I N, join or wnst, which is wnst to 410-821-9678, we’re going to be giving away Raven scratch offs on Friday at Costas. I’m wearing my Coco shirt. I gotta get down to Cocos and get some of those Coco shrimp. Get a little bit of her crab soup. Get a salad, a Greek salad at the bar. But we’re going to be a Costas on Friday, two to five. I got Leonard Raskin coming by. I have, I have an opening. If anybody hears throw me an email nest at Baltimore positive.com I have these guys in the capital center who did this capital center book. I’ve been trying to get them on so that’s gonna be a little bit of fun as well. And I’m doing a lot of oysters for oyster recovery partnership, our friends at Liberty. Pure solutions, one and under clean water, making it happen. And there are also my plumbers, but they keep my water crystal clean, just like the oysters keep the bay clean. And I am attending on Thursday night the oyster recovery partnerships Gala. We’re going to talk to a lot of oyster farmers. You’re going to hear that next week. And in the coming weeks, into October, we’ll be releasing the 26 days. And 26 ways, I am on number 21 right now. I did number 20 at the the the Chaucer in Highland town the other night had some delicious fried oysters there. So it’s a lot of really cool oysters. So it’s out on YouTube, but I’ll have it to W NST into Baltimore positive. It’ll be part of our radio stick next month as well. I’m just trying to get through, like, this big football game and these couple of baseball games before the bullpen blows up and, oh, I’m. That’s right. I think they’re going to win the World Series. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We’ll come back and argue some more. We don’t really argue or fight. We just kind of intelligently discuss. That’s why he called them wise conversation. Stay with us. Do.