Importing Alonso means we’re talking baseball in March

It’s always a wind-ranging flow when we invite Baltimore Magazine senior editor Ron Cassie by on the Maryland Crab Cake Tour but baseball was bound to be the main course this time at Gertrude’s in the aftermath of a New York Mets’ slugger signing to become a Baltimore Orioles hope this offseason. From MLB labor to The BMA art, spring into a long conversation about Pete Alonso, Frank Robinson, race and the future of the sport.

Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the history and significance of Baltimore Magazine, which is celebrating its 100th anniversary. They delve into the 1966 Baltimore Orioles, highlighting the impact of Frank Robinson, who faced racial challenges in Baltimore. They also touch on the current state of the Orioles, expressing optimism about the team’s potential with new acquisitions like Chris Bassitt and Pete Alonso. The conversation shifts to broader baseball issues, including the potential work stoppage, the challenges of fan engagement, and the need for a competitive balance in the sport.

• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – Talk with Anne about bringing John Waters back as a guest on the show, given his recent work and connection to the city.
• [ ] @Nestor Aparicio – If John Waters returns as a guest, invite Ron Cassie to sit in on the show to join the discussion.

Baltimore Magazine’s History and Archival Efforts

• Nestor Aparicio introduces the show and mentions the Maryland lottery and Harlem Globetrotter scratch offs.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the history of Baltimore Magazine, which is celebrating its 100th anniversary.
• Ron Cassie mentions the archival efforts of the magazine, including old covers and photographs.
• Nestor Aparicio expresses interest in seeing archival content from the 60s, 70s, 50s, and 40s.

Frank Robinson and the 1966 Baltimore Orioles

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the significance of 1966, including the acquisition of Frank Robinson and the trade for Milt Pappas.
• Ron Cassie shares his admiration for Frank Robinson and his impact on the Orioles and baseball as a whole.
• Nestor Aparicio mentions Pete Alonso as a latter-day Frank Robinson, highlighting the cultural impact of baseball.
• Ron Cassie talks about his live-tweeting of the 1970 baseball season during COVID-19 and the extensive research he conducted on the Orioles.

Racial Integration and Cultural Impact in 1966

• Ron Cassie discusses the cultural and racial significance of 1966, including the acquisition of Frank Robinson and the challenges faced by black players in Baltimore.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie talk about the housing segregation faced by Frank Robinson and his family in Baltimore.
• Ron Cassie mentions the impact of Frank Robinson and Paul Blair on the African American community in Baltimore.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the broader cultural and social context of 1966, including the civil rights movement and the integration of sports.

The Role of Baseball in American Culture

• Ron Cassie emphasizes the importance of baseball as America’s game and its role in cultural integration.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the historical significance of black and Latino players in baseball, including Willie Mays, Willie McCovey, and Ernie Banks.
• Ron Cassie shares insights from Frank Robinson’s autobiography and the challenges faced by black players in the minor leagues.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie talk about the impact of Frank Robinson as a player and manager, including his contributions to baseball history.

The Future of the Baltimore Orioles

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the current state of the Baltimore Orioles, including recent acquisitions and injuries.
• Ron Cassie expresses optimism about the Orioles’ potential to compete for a playoff spot, citing the signing of Chris Bassitt and other players.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the challenges faced by the Orioles, including injuries to key players like Cedric Mullins and Austin Hays.
• Ron Cassie emphasizes the importance of having a strong lineup and the impact of Pete Alonso on the team.

The Business of Baseball and Work Stoppage Concerns

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the business side of baseball, including the challenges of attracting and retaining fans.
• Ron Cassie mentions the impact of Kurt Flood’s challenge to the baseball reserve clause and the introduction of free agency.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie talk about the potential work stoppage in baseball and its impact on the sport and fans.
• Ron Cassie emphasizes the need for a competitive balance in baseball and the challenges of revenue sharing among teams.

The Role of Media and Fan Engagement

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the role of media in engaging fans and promoting the Orioles.
• Ron Cassie mentions the challenges of finding baseball games on different networks and the impact on fan experience.
• Nestor Aparicio talks about the importance of creating a welcoming environment for fans and the need for better communication from the team.
• Ron Cassie emphasizes the importance of dedicated ownership and consistent performance in building a loyal fan base.

The Impact of Historical Moments in Baseball

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the impact of historical moments in baseball, including the 1966 World Series and the 1983 World Series.
• Ron Cassie shares personal memories of watching baseball games and the emotional connection to the sport.
• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie talk about the challenges of maintaining fan interest and the importance of creating memorable moments.
• Ron Cassie emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to baseball, combining historical significance with modern innovation.

The Future of Baltimore Magazine and Baseball Coverage

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie discuss the future of Baltimore Magazine and its coverage of baseball.
• Ron Cassie mentions upcoming articles and features in the magazine, including profiles of John Waters and other notable figures.
• Nestor Aparicio expresses interest in continued coverage of baseball and the Orioles in the magazine.
• Ron Cassie emphasizes the importance of staying connected to the community and providing valuable content for readers.

Final Thoughts and Closing Remarks

• Nestor Aparicio and Ron Cassie wrap up the conversation, expressing mutual appreciation for the discussion.
• Ron Cassie shares final thoughts on the importance of baseball and the role of media in promoting the sport.
• Nestor Aparicio thanks Ron Cassie for his insights and contributions to the conversation.
• The conversation ends with a focus on the upcoming baseball season and the potential impact of the Orioles’ new acquisitions.

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

Baltimore Magazine, Frank Robinson, 1966 Orioles, baseball history, integration, racial segregation, Orioles’ acquisitions, Pete Alonso, baseball culture, work stoppage, fan engagement, Orioles’ injuries, baseball analytics, John Waters, media coverage.

SPEAKERS

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Ron Cassie, Nestor Aparicio

Nestor Aparicio  00:00

Hello, welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, AM, 1570 towel, Baltimore. We’re Baltimore, positive, positively here at Gertrude, at the B, M, a, it is a. It’s always great day to be here. Certainly the Amy Sheryl exhibits been amazing. We’re here to promote, no means city, Baltimore, 1966 Dan Rodricks, my life of friends doing a show upstairs here. Yes, there’s a theater here, but we’re gertrudes, where I had a ridiculously delicious catfish lunch with grits, cheese grits and collard greens, and these little shrimpies on there. They’re like a shrimp creole was delicious. We’re here on behalf of the Maryland lottery. I have Harlem Globetrotter scratch offs to give away Ron Cassidy’s my guess. He’s the senior editor. I keep wanting to call you executive editor, senior editor of Baltimore magazine. Be more. You know, how long? How many years of Baltimore magazine? 80 for me, what year did it come out? 70 some, 80 something. How many years have been for

Ron Cassie  01:00

the magazine itself. Oh no. We’re coming up in like, our 100 and 20th anniversary. This is the longest City Region running city know about, into the countries. In the country.

Nestor Aparicio  01:10

You know what would be neat it would be to archive stuff from the 60s, 70s, 50s, 40s, and I’ve never seen what it looked like.

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Ron Cassie  01:18

I’ll say, I’ll suggest you keep an eye out. Keep an eye out. I did not even something in the works long Well, glad I asked about that because of the time we’ll post cover, old covers, okay? And they’re just awesome. I mean, like, you know, especially when

Nestor Aparicio  01:33

you go back, like Life magazine or time,

Ron Cassie  01:36

you know, there’s one of my favorites is a, you know, all the cars that we import right at the Port of Baltimore. There’s a great old photograph of VW beetles down at the Inner Harbor from like the 1960s right? VW beetles, just 1000s of them at the at the portable they were new. They’re new being imported.

Nestor Aparicio  01:55

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But he bought one. Now you go, you know, Cabbage Patch, no. Everybody wanted one, right?

Ron Cassie  01:58

But you know all the cars that we imported the Port of Baltimore, right? It’s a huge we’ve we were, like, one of the biggest importers of cars when the Key Bridge went down, yes, so, but when you go back into the VW beetles, the different colors and everything, it’s really, it’s really fun. Well, the reason I

Nestor Aparicio  02:14

ask is I’m promoting a 66 thing, yeah, and you’re writing about 66 this month. Yeah, I didn’t know that Baltimore magazine existed in 66 right? Yeah, great. So the fact that you’re doing sort of an archival piece on a Baltimore Time Capsule now yours was more about the baseball team, or is it more like Dan show, which is more about race and integration?

Ron Cassie  02:36

I haven’t seen Dan show. Obviously, this story has been on our storyboard for, you know, at least a year. I mean, I, I’ve wanted to do this story for a long time, I guess, I guess it’s not a surprise that, I guess, like Dan, I have been around for a long time baseball fans, that you realize what, how meaningful 66 was the acquisition of, of the trade for Frank Robinson, shout out and Bull Durham, remember Annie Savoy, Susan Sarandon, right?

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Nestor Aparicio  03:05

And shout out to Pete Alonso, who is the latter day Frank Robinson,

Ron Cassie  03:08

well, maybe, but this culture is not going to have the same impact. I’m a big polar bear fan, but culture not have a big impact. But yeah, this story has been on the board for a long time. I mean, I during covid, I live tweeted the 1970 season like game by game baseball been canceled, so I created an anonymous Twitter account. See that, like 6000 followers, I tweeted like a sports writer out of burner account. I miss I had a burner account. I miss baseball so much. Home by myself. I was live tweeting every game and anonymously, the kitkey councils exist. But partly from that I did so much research into the Orioles, right? So 1970 not 1966 I did so much research because you’re like, well, whatever happened to Curt plefery or Steve barber Luis Aparicio? Yeah, you dig back when they acquire this guy. And one thing you realize is how much, like, injuries are a part of the game, like, how many young guys come up promising, make a contribution, and then they’re forgotten because they’re just out of baseball in two or three years back then especially. But, you know, Luke

Nestor Aparicio  04:12

Jones brought up Nolan rhymes to me last week, so I, you know, that came up, yeah. So I’m thinking, there’s a guy there, you know, well,

Ron Cassie  04:19

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Wally bunkers, the, you know, we’ll talk about 66 he’s the quintessential, I mean, he was Mickey Mantle, said he’s the one that toughest guys Mickey Mantle ever faced, and he’s, like, out of baseball, like he’s really washed up at like, 21

Nestor Aparicio  04:30

the Steve dal Koco’s key stories, also,

Ron Cassie  04:33

that’s whose bull dorm is based on, right? That’s right, because the the guy who wrote, who did the movie, Shelton, was a, was an Oriole farm. It was

Nestor Aparicio  04:42

a dal Koco’s Key book that came out a couple years ago. Good, yeah, the guy on the road,

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Ron Cassie  04:46

yeah, it was good, yeah. But yeah, 66 is, you know, I It’s, I tried to meld the baseball with the cultural stuff, you know, because Frank Robinson was Baltimore. Orioles, really? First black superstar, right? First black player. Bob Boyd played first base for a couple years, but, you know, he comes the Baltimore. It’s almost 20 years, 19 years after Jackie Robinson and Frank had played here in the 50s and faced the racism and segregation,

Nestor Aparicio  05:17

there were three black players on the 66 team. I learned that from Vanessa yes earlier, yeah, right.

Ron Cassie  05:21

And they were young. I mean, Paul Blair and the third guy’s gonna escape me, but, yeah, he broke ground. And listen, in 1966 Frank Robinson, famously, his family had trouble buying a home in Baltimore. They were there was legal segregation, you know, housing segregation. He was threatening to leave the Orioles down in spring training come back. His wife Barbara, was ready to move back to California. They couldn’t find a home. The Orioles had to step in. They ended up renting a house in Ashburton, you know, so face tremendously great. He and Paul Blair couldn’t get a drink or go out to eat in every restaurant Baltimore, 1966 right? Meanwhile, as as fans are cheering on the World Series, the guy most responsible for it, Frank Robinson, can’t go out and get a drink at any bar, get a dinner in any any restaurant, or buy a house in a neighborhood. So it’s really a, you know, a seminal moment in the city’s history, the the Afro American. I brought one of my show and tell Ron show and tell I brought, I brought my biography of autobiography of Sam Lacey lacy Sure, from the Afro American, you know, Sam lace hit, the Afro American Hall of Fame baseball sports writer the N double.

Nestor Aparicio  06:30

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Sam was in the press box all the time. When I was a young person, I spent a whole lot of time. I should have spent this year.

Ron Cassie  06:36

Yeah, history with him. But, you know, he was pushing too dumb. Was pushing for the oral assigned black ball players. The NAACP was local civil rights organizations. It was Baltimore. Was a colts town in 66 and they had Lenny Moore, Jim Parker, you know, get John Mackey, Willie Richardson, a bunch of other black ball players. Buddy Young was there, and the Orioles had nobody. And what baseball was, you know, less so today it is in America. But then baseball was America’s game, you’re sure, and and yet, you know, I interviewed for my story Reverend Alvin Hathaway, who went to City College and worked at Memorial State of the rev, right? Well, he was at the game when Frank Robinson is a home run out of Stadium.

Nestor Aparicio  07:18

My parents were there. Mother’s Day. Mother’s Day, 68 sold out.

Ron Cassie  07:21

6666 sorry, was sold out because, yeah, Frank was new. I mean, it was your was hurt, I think, yeah, it was, you know, huge moment for that year. But, yeah, Reverend halfway was in high school. He was, he dropped his box of pop. It was selling popcorn. Oh, just tumbled out, you know, dropped the whole tray. Everybody turned their head and but he Oh, he was saying, when they got Frank, a home run hitter, and you coupled him with Paul Blair, exciting gold Glover. Now, African Americans in city were becoming tentative to the Orioles and the oils. It’s documented. I mean, it’s in our story. They they were looking for a black ball player to sign. They were losing at that point. Baltimore is the sixth biggest city in the country.

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Nestor Aparicio  08:08

Well, hofburger had also been through the Holocaust. It was his family and stuff. From what my understanding is that there was a real understanding about management to be I hate the word liberal. It’s so dumb. What, what has been done to the word liberal, but what, I guess that would be the word time business.

Ron Cassie  08:24

It was a business decision. There’s the city is the sixth largest in a country. 35 to 40% are African American, yet they don’t have any black ball players. And you know, this is long after Jackie Robinson. And so they wanted that audience. They wanted to appeal to the customers and that, you know, that was they were looking for to sign a superstar at the same time. So it wasn’t. And they’re also looking to find great players, also looking to find great players. So you right? Yeah. I mean, we know why the nationally dominated the 60s in baseball,

Nestor Aparicio  08:58

right? Willie Mays, Willie mccudal, Matthew

Ron Cassie  09:02

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man, because on the heels of Jackie Robinson, the National League moved first the signed black players, Orlando Cepeda, Latino ball players, you know, black and Latino players from Cuba, Rico, cardi Vita, pin, all the great players, Willie mccovey’s, Ernie bank, Dickie Allen. Dick Allen Philadelphia, who went through a horrific experience there, Reggie Jackson has talked about the race, and he faced like like Frank Robinson did when he was in the minor leagues. You know, in Utah, which was very segregated, the Mormon church had a really backwards view of black Americans. Individuals thought they were inferior. And then he went to Columbia, South Carolina, which Frank Robinson says one more

Nestor Aparicio  09:46

got a frank book. Hold on my life. A baseball look at that with that. Indians gear on. Look at that in the first

Ron Cassie  09:51

black man during baseball course. But he writes about house. You know, Columbia, South Carolina was improvement on Ogden, Utah, in terms of race relations. That’s. Tough. Utah was then. And, you know, one of the interesting things I think about Frank Robinson, I just share a couple of books you I read for our story. But if people are interested in baseball, both of these books, fighting for fairness, families on there, over here, the cameras and Frank Robinson’s autobiography are both great reads, great baseball reads for a fan. But, you know, Frank becomes the first black, black manager, and is every bit the kind of ballplayer. Well, I mean, when he retires, he’s, he’s fourth all time in home runs. That’s, you know Brooks 660,

Nestor Aparicio  10:42

Brooks, 586, 586, six years old. Willie, Mae, sorry.

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Ron Cassie  10:45

Brooks, Boog, Jim Palmer, all say is the best player they ever saw. Now, they didn’t play. They didn’t see much of Aaron and Mays because they’re in a different league then. But all star games, all star games. But you know, Frank was extraordinary player, extraordinary acquisition. You just can’t say enough about his impact. And so your stories in the April or May wouldn’t be the April issue come out in usually comes out. We do a previous for this baseball season. It comes out at the end of being news stands like the end of March, okay? And soon month, yeah.

Nestor Aparicio  11:17

And if you subscribe, as you should, get it earlier. You get a little early. Ronnie Cass is here. He is a senior editor at Baltimore magazine. You know, there’s a million things you and I’ve talked about renaissance of the city, and we talked about travel, and you riding your bike places, and I get maximum we talk movies in Baltimore, different things like that. The baseball side, I know you’re a baseball story. And quite frankly, this time of year, little oxygen to talk about the season, the offseason you already mentioned. You love the polar bear. I haven’t had you on since this happened, and I have you on maybe twice a year. We wind up inevitably talking about baseball and winding up moving into some weird social issue or something like that, or Trump or something. I want to stay on baseball with you a little bit and get your vibe on this, because the Orioles have been through this tumultuous couple of years now, right? Ownership, change manager, change leadership, change down a half a million customers last year, the television network mass and being split up now, and maybe labor stoppage, right, coming up in nine months, right? That’s at the top of my list all the time. Where are you on the baseball there? You’re a pure, a pure baseball fan. The Pete Alonso thing. This has been good for the Orioles. I think, I think, I think they got a good guy. He seems like a decent human. You’re already a fan of his. Now he’s gonna hit 40 home runs, I don’t know, but I check off on the effort. If that man and I couldn’t always do that, not, I could never do that with angelos, almost, right? They never looked like they were really trying all that. Yeah, they look like they’re true. They bought a $19 million starter in February. That’s good. That’s yeah, that’s an investment. The Angelos didn’t buy $19 million pitchers in February.

Ron Cassie  12:57

Yeah, you know about Chris Bassett, yes, yeah. Chris pass used to play for the Mets too. So there I was. I could tie Frank Robinson to my New York Mets because I was born in North Jersey. My dad was a Brooklyn Dodgers fan, so I was just I was five, turned six, when the Orioles and Mets met

Nestor Aparicio  13:16

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your out of defiance for the Brooklyn Dodgers basically.

Ron Cassie  13:20

Well, that’s who and Andy Yank. Nobody could root whoever was a Brooklyn Dodger fit or New York Giants fan, right? Could root for the Yankees.

Nestor Aparicio  13:28

Okay, so this is same thing. When I lost the Colts, we were never going to root for that team in Washington. The words burger and go, No, it just wasn’t I saw I

Ron Cassie  13:38

58 my dad’s in high school when the Dodgers go senior year, when they go to Los Angeles, and he, for swears off baseball for like, the rest of his life, but then he has a kid who likes baseball, and so we all adopted the Met, and they lost 150 games in 62 and next thing, Mets had the Brooklyn Dodgers and Giants colors. That’s where the blue orange comes from. But there’s a long way of saying that. Like I’ve always followed the Orioles, because I go back to that 69 World Series. How old were you then? Well, I was, I turned six shortly afterwards, but I was the kid with three years old was watching the whole games his dad and grandpa. I was a kid at five who was throwing baseballs,

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Nestor Aparicio  14:14

but I was just

Ron Cassie  14:15

four years behind, yeah. So 63 Yeah, all right, I’m 65 years behind you. Okay, good. So I was more rusty Staub, yeah, that 73 like that era. I mean, they are wrong, like my cousin Dave, I would be in the street, you know, I played first base in the manhole cover. You I was, I was left hand, so I got first base Don Claude, Dennis, and he was buddy Harrelson. And, yeah, so, but I follow the words forever, but I

Nestor Aparicio  14:41

wanted to be Felix. Me on in 73 but I’m gonna choke up.

Ron Cassie  14:47

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Well, Tommy, speaking of early black Walters. Tommy, aging Cleon Jones, friends who played left field and center field. They grew up together in Alabama and Mobile, Alabama, and they were like that generation. This was gonna mention Mobile, Alabama, and was there. One thing about Frank Robinson, I’ll get to polar bear one second. I can just say this. One thing about Frank Robinson was Jackie Robinson kind of had a silently and was venerated for silently taking the abuse that he took. Frank Robinson was not a turn the other cheek ball player. You know, they were, you know, emancipated by then. He slid hard with the spikes up. He got into fights on the field. He leaned over the kangaroo. He was a leader. Yeah. I mean, he led the National League and hit by pitch six out of his 10 years there. I mean, he was a fierce, fierce player, as it was ever played, a legendary competitor. I’ll so I’m gonna jump gears. This isn’t a sec not is a non secular, I guess, to pub the polar bear, watching him play for the Mets, which I have the MLB after watch the Mets, and I get mad and to watch the Orioles. But you are Mets fan, though? No, it’s right down the middle. Oh, okay, I watch the bolt. And who’s, yeah, I’ll say this. Who’s ever having the better year? I probably watch a little bit more on but, you know, practically watching a game of night, one of them for sure, following I’m on everything.

Nestor Aparicio  16:03

No, I mean, I won’t bother you between seven and 11 last 35 What’s that beer?

Ron Cassie  16:08

3540 years, I’ve been to, you know, 100 oils. You’ve been to, like, three Mets games. Okay, so, but we do watch the polar bear religiously. I’ve got a lot of family. My brother, Chris, right? I mean, the emotions. I mean, it couldn’t handle as if you’re a Mets fan, you just wrecked. I mean, how am I supposed to one? No, but they steal. Why? Why did the one team had to steal and be the Orioles during it breaks your heart. I’m glad I get to see him play. I’ve got yours gone, but you’re like, he’s gonna leave anyway. Wanted to met sign him. I mean, this is so here’s the Frank Robinson connection. He’s like, the same age, right? He’s like, lean to NL in Homer’s Frank Robinson was, was, you know, hit like 33 homers in a pitcher Dominique, era, 296, and Bill DeWitt, who was the owner of the Reds at the time, says he’s not a young 30, not a young 30. That’s a famous quote, little little fire. And in Frank, he won the Triple Crown in 66 in a different jersey. So I don’t know why the Orioles didn’t the Mets. Didn’t sign the polar bear. He’d a huge year. Last year, he did a bigger year than Juan Soto. And he from beginning to end, he carried the Mets. You love this joy to watch. He’s a joy to watch. He loves the him and Francisco Lindor are two of the most fun players to watch in the in sport. Love Frankie Lindor. They’re unbelievable to watch. They’re great at the interviews. Are great at the game. They’re team guys. I mean, Alonzo spent his career there. I don’t know how the Mets say. You know, we can’t pay him, but the orals can afford to pay him. That makes no sense to me. That said, I’m glad he’s here. I’ll see him more. I hope he hits 40 home runs. Camden Yards, not necessarily a right handed hitters friendly Park. Still, it’s about average now as a ballpark, but it doesn’t matter for him. I mean, Citi Field wasn’t a home run hitters Park, either, and I think what polar bear will do. Pete Alonso for the Orioles, that Frank Robinson did was you just put him in there. You just bat him forth every day, and it takes the heat off everybody else. He’s the lightning rod. He’s the guy they’ve got to pitch around. They don’t want to walk the guy in front of them. They don’t want to see him come up in dangerous situations. They don’t want to walk Alonzo. You got something behind him, because now you got two or three guys on base. He he’s the guy in the clubhouse that, you know, how does reporter I knew I was

Nestor Aparicio  18:26

gonna get pissed off, Mets fan and happy Oriole fan all in wall.

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Ron Cassie  18:29

It’s the jumble of emotions. I can’t sort it out. But you know, when reporters go into locker room, and you’ve been there, they tend to go to like an Adam Jones. There’s usually one veteran ball player that they go to a lot. It happens in the season, right? And I think it takes some the heat off the other guys, and Pete Alonso is also that guy. You know, there’s no pressure on gunner to be the spokesman for the team. Pete Alonso as more years and paid to be that is being paid to be, that he’s being and that, I think it’s one of those things like in sports, I think in a lineup you put a guy in, and other pieces seem to fall into place. You know, nobody else. Adley doesn’t have to hit home runs, just get him on base. You know,

Nestor Aparicio  19:11

are they a playoff team in your mind right now? I mean, I’m scuffling with Kittredge going down earlier and westburg and holiday I mean, I’m the guy that fought with Luke three weeks ago, four weeks ago, before the injuries got the blaze, Alexander deal, that we didn’t understand at the moment when they gave bullpen away for that and at that moment, they’re they’re over under. I looked it up. Was in, it depends on where you’re in Vegas. Was 86 and a half to 89 that was the over under. And I said to Luke, I’m like, I’ll bet the over. I’ll take the over and 89 I’ll take 91 I like, I’m okay with that. When they signed Bassett, when it feels like Rogers and now see Bradish, they look like they’re at least sharp enough. This whole World Baseball Classic thing is going to be weird for all of these teams splitting off. And I thought, you. They don’t have to play the Yankees and the reds. They say, well, the divisions loaded, yeah. But they don’t. They don’t play each other like they used to, in a way where that would really matter and beat them down. Yeah. So for that, I looked at it and said, All right, they’ll have a bounce back. Year. They have a new manager. Seems like they’ve signed some players. They’ve addressed some needs, even the ward. Thing for Rodriguez didn’t make as much sense to me at the moment, is it probably will. So I’m good with their off season, but apparently I’m more optimistic then a lot of people are. When I talk to other people, they’re like, yeah, come see come sell us a way. I think they’ll

Ron Cassie  20:38

compete for a playoff spot. I hope. You know, I think 90 wins, like you said, is probably the top end. You know about that, right? I think, I think the guy, I think

Nestor Aparicio  20:47

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Henderson, get it 35 home runs in Alonso get a 35 runs, and Rogers can make 28 starts in Bradish, like the ball. Enough pieces here, and young players, the holidays, the westbergs, the cowsers. I don’t call Richmond young anymore, but he’s a friggin one one. So I mean, you know, there is a level of productivity that I’m still waiting for that light to go on for him and for him to be healthy, but health has been

Ron Cassie  21:13

daunting for them a lot of ways. I think West Bergen holiday, that’s a little why I’m cautious. They’re gonna miss time. They’re not going to come back and be themselves.

Nestor Aparicio  21:23

I thought there was 1000 great prime at bats they were going to get this year from two aspiring all star to Hall of very good players that I’m not sure we’re going to get 600 at bats out of the two of them this year that are going to be of quality, and that’s just me, and especially westburg, when I get anything out of him.

Ron Cassie  21:46

And I really like Westbrook as a ball player, you know, I think he’s just a throwback kind of gamer, you know, he’ll, you can put him anywhere in the lineup, put him anywhere in the infield. He’s, he’s a guy who makes great contact, you know, he’s not a strikeout guy. He’s gonna get a runner in from third. He’s gonna move a guy along. Yeah, I think it’s, I think it’s tough with the injuries, and I think the, you know, I don’t, I’m not a huge cold and cowser guy. I haven’t seen him hit high, you know, good enough average anymore. I think one thing talking going, talking about Frank Robinson and Brooks and Boog and those guys, those guys also hit for average. You know, Frank at 296

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Nestor Aparicio  22:29

the year before, he came different air with strikeouts. And I mean, literally,

Ron Cassie  22:33

yeah, but listen, but you know, Frank was in a picture dominated era those your race. So when Bob Gibson was posted like a 1.19 era in the 60s. That was a pitching DOM. A year after 68 they lowered the mound. They were so

Nestor Aparicio  22:46

down Well, I mean tion and Sam and all that. So, yeah, so

Ron Cassie  22:49

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he hits 49 home runs in 66 for oils. 319, 296, he considered down year with the reds, and he was a home run hitter. And the only reason I bring this up is I think when guys don’t hit for average, it gets tough when you get into against a better pitching to get in the playoffs, because you’re, you’re not, you’re not going to get enough hits off the top pitchers. You know, if you’re, if you’re only batting 240 but you’re in a lot of home runs, well, that batting average is going to slip further when you get against the top, number one or two pitcher on staff gonna slip further into playoffs when you’re facing the best bullpens. And if you’re not hitting for average, you’re kind of not hitting. You know, it’s not to get through a season and hit 235, and but you hit 30 home runs, you drove in a lot of runs. You’re making a lot of outs, and key situations, you make a lot of outs. And again, it’s gonna get worse in the playoffs, and against the better teams, it’s gonna get harder. So guys who hit for an average, I have a lot more confidence. And so I think, you know, cows are is not young anymore. Westbrook is not young anymore. Holiday certainly is. Gunner certainly is, you know, superstar potential. I mean, you just stand next to gunner Henderson, and you can see a guy who could play free safety in NFL. I mean, just as that kind of physique and natural power and grace,

Nestor Aparicio  24:02

and we’ll see if Kobe Mayo can play third base too. We’ll see if Kobe May.

Ron Cassie  24:06

There’s, there’s questions, but I love, I love Bassett. I love the I love the pickup of a veteran starter like you said.

Nestor Aparicio  24:12

Well, Ron Cass is here. I’m choking to death. It’s Baltimore magazine, and He is the executive. Executive keeps, want to say senior editor doing a 1966 piece. What else is going with the magazine? As we get into you doing more baseball this summer, we have a kind of welcome. Craig Albernaz, we don’t have one yet,

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Ron Cassie  24:29

probably when the season starts, yeah, at least for our website. We have a couple little smaller baseball stores, I think coming coming into print. You know, we we try to pick our spots. I think in the magazine, well, you’d

Nestor Aparicio  24:41

write all baseball every month if you could

Ron Cassie  24:44

March to October. Told Jim. I told Jim Henneman, our old friend, you know, who got I went somewhere real games with that. I would love to be an oils beat writer for like, a year, just to do that whole thing for a year, to really get the ins and outs and the ebb and flow from spring training all the. Way to the end. I don’t know I’d want to do it like, longer than that, like, stay in it longer, but I for a year. I think it would be.

Nestor Aparicio  25:08

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I ran rail for 25 years till they threw me out. And it’s all good. You know, I’ve been okay. I’m in the 20th anniversary being thrown out now, after being credential for 23 years, I bet that

Ron Cassie  25:16

I will say that there was a very gracious with us, that when they have made the playoffs to get us press passes and

Nestor Aparicio  25:24

the press box, I can only laugh about. It’s not funny. It’s it’s actually, yeah, cruel and weird, but the new ownership you bought in that that they know what they’re doing. I’ve had a lot of conversations on and off the air about Katie Griggs, who I’ve interacted with now enough that for her to tell me, I’m not a real media member. But they lost attendance last year. The television thing, the Birdland memberships, the subscription side of subscribing to apps. And who’s more want to do that? You’re a baseball guy. I’m a baseball guy. We’re going to do but the people that aren’t, there’s not a real invitation to let them in. And there was a headline I shared this today. Actually took a screenshot of it and I shared it in the athletic about baseball doing everything it can do to be not as good and fan friendly as it could be. Here it is. The athletic MLB has been revitalized by rule changes, but according to our readers, not everything about the fan experience has gotten experience has gotten better. No League has actively made it more difficult to watch their games the Major League Baseball over the last 10 years, it discourages fans from tuning in. That’s just a fan comment, but it’s it’s not something I’m not unfamiliar with. On a Friday night when I’m in Toronto and the games on Apple TV, and I can’t even watch the game. Yeah. So there is a point where who’s running the business, and then this work stoppage thing that you’re familiar with, I’m familiar with. We’re more familiar than the most fans, because we’re journalists kind of guys and study this, and red Lords of the Realm and all of that, which I’m sure you have. I these new guys, I don’t do they have a strategy for a work stoppage. You know, do they have a real strategy for what the little city around Camden Yards and their little battery that they’re trying to siphon money in? I don’t sense anything from a media perspective, fan perspective, not even on their own website, where they have people giving them foot rubs, who work for them, getting their messaging out about the messaging that we’re not. Peter angelos, I hear that the messaging that Cal Ripken is involved, okay, he’s in the commercials. The messaging that we’re gonna get bobble heads away and to give away. Okay, great, and we get cheap beer and cheap food, blah, blah, blah. The messaging for me, with the team and making people love the team and get into the soap opera and loving baseball and all the nerdy you and Chris real were having a nerd conversations because you were part of the nerd society that looks part of that they always want me to be a part of, right? The analytics groups,

Ron Cassie  27:55

right? Yeah, yeah.

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Nestor Aparicio  27:58

Janet Marie tried to get me down for a beard. Yeah, we

Ron Cassie  28:01

were, I get the hung. We hung out a lot during the convention was here.

Nestor Aparicio  28:06

So I’m seeing from a baseball perspective. There’s us, yeah, in our own little nerdy where I mentioned rusty Staub and Felix. Me on and you get turned on by a grain pool. And then there’s somebody that’s never watched baseball or went away years ago, yeah, or inclined because of race, the knee, the ravens, the league, whatever to say, oh, I want to be a baseball fan again, and I want to come back. How much? Where’s the game? How do I find it? It’s It’s on every there’s a lot of built in things about baseball. You and I accept to get in on the soap opera, to get new young people of color, different people, they have their work cut out for them. They above and beyond you and me. They do. There’s and there’s a lot to unpack. You bring up a lot of half of us to the point where, yeah, I don’t want to be involved

Ron Cassie  28:50

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a lot. Some of it is ball to based on baseball some of his Angeles. I mean, there is, you know, I came here like 86 right? So I first moved to Waverly, sort of walking the game Memorial Stadium. They were not good. You know, we had they were not good. They had Fred Linda we had 89 season, Fred Lynn’s a wonderful guy. 89 season, Frank Robinson, the manager the why not team? It was a blast, right? But all those losing seasons, like 14 a row, the firing of John Miller, thing. Maybe we’ve talked about some of the stuff in the past. You lost a generation

Nestor Aparicio  29:25

every minute of every day of, yeah, but you’ve lost John Miller crying, you and I

Ron Cassie  29:29

would remember like that 80 years ago. You remember the 83 World Series of 79 World Series. But how many people do you lost generation or two of fans, but not even feeling a competitive team.

Nestor Aparicio  29:40

Luke loves baseball his whole life. He was born two weeks before the World Series in 83 Yeah. What does he have to hang his hat on, other than Cal Ripken night a couple of the Jeffrey Mayor game, the Delman young double, and the night I got thrown out of that press box in Arlington two years ago, like I. Uh, but people talk about the Delman young double like it’s the 66 World Series, and it’s way far away from that. You know, if Delman Young’s all you got, and the Pope showing up at Camden Yards 32

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Ron Cassie  30:13

he was, of course, the Delman young thing. Don’t like this for people like the Andino slide against the rest of the Indian I was there, and I was there for Dylan young in the bleacher behind him plate. The eruption of noise in the sound was like nothing I’ve ever heard. And it was partly the generations of never having to cheer for like this repressed, you know, Buck short, we’re back, we’re here. We’re gonna win a playoffs. It was just an explosion of sound. But I think with the Orioles, you know, I I’m somebody that’s probably gonna bring in a bottle of water, my own peanuts, it’s expensive. Go the ballpark, it is. And I think, you know, I’ve seen, you know, Baltimore banner Sun reporters tweet out, well, you know, the attendance is down, and all this stuff. Where is everybody? Well, you have all this losing trajectory where you weren’t even competitive. You had covid, no baseball, you know, it takes more than one season of hitting the playoffs to bring to develop a fan base. You know, it’s not just like, Okay, where is everybody? It takes a long time dedicated ownership. It takes being competitive, you know, kind of year in and year out, feeling good team develops

Nestor Aparicio  31:23

a presence. Take a real price and real press, and Larry lakino And you and I maybe not, didn’t even notice that in the 80s, and there was a presence there that got Camden Yards built, that created that Oriole magic, yeah, created that, why not? Season that made it feel like to a jersey guy, to come down here, to adopt the Orioles and be you felt like you could be a part of it. I don’t know that that’s on the menu anymore for professional sports, that you’re really going to be a part of it. You’re going to be a gambler on it. You’re going to be a customer. Think you’re right, your customer, you’re a number. You’re not

Ron Cassie  31:52

a fan. I am. I all that this is not just baseball. I’ve heard Charles Barkley complaining he’s on the road at a hotel. He can’t find the NBA game because, you know, is on TNT, where is it? NBC, so I’m peacock. Where am I find the game. It’s the same in baseball, you know, the or the Orland mass, and they are there in Fox, and they’re an ESPN,

Nestor Aparicio  32:11

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you’re just gonna do whatever. You’re gonna wait in line three hours for a bobblehead and 100 just, it just, just, I don’t think they treat people.

Ron Cassie  32:18

It’s a trade off to get the money for these networks. I love base as a as opposed to the fan. It was always a game that people went to or right, as opposed to just watched on TV. The place you went to was affordable. That’s that’s been lost. I, you know, obviously the TV stuff. I think the bigger thing is the biggest thing with baseball, you mentioned the work stoppage and, by the way, Kurt flood, give him a shout out. Right, the guy who basically changed all of professional sports by challenging the baseball reserve clause in 1969 right black center fielder for St Louis Cardinals. It was a golden Glover, Colin Kaepernick of his era 285, 31 years old, and the only team we could possibly resign was with the Cardinals, and that launched free agency. He grew up with Frank Robinson in Oakland. By the way, so did Bill Russell. That’s some game changers from the high school they went to, by the way, in sports history, Bill Russell, Frank Robinson and Kurt flood. But I think where baseball has dropped as failed compared to football and basketball you do need, right? You do need some type of market, some type of revenue sharing stream that puts that can put teams on the same playing field competitively, or at least close. I don’t think we can just like

Nestor Aparicio  33:33

everybody’s gonna take a side on this. You’re taking the owner side in this. Now I want to think of the ball players for the ball players, I’m not saying like the players don’t want a salary cap, and that’s what you’re proposing. You know, like, literally, that’s going to be the conversation amongst fans in the offseason. Is, I want it to feel like the Packers and the Giants doing football, yes, and that means the players are going to lose the battle. Or, I don’t know how that would always be a last

Ron Cassie  33:58

month, it doesn’t seem to be that the NBA players or NFL players salaries are taking a huge hit.

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Nestor Aparicio  34:04

Talk to this Meyer guy who just took over for the Clark guy, because I talked to the Don fear guys and the Marvin millers, and it’s going to be a war. The price, by the way, your guy, bassett’s in on this, right? He’s one of the big union guys. Yeah, that’s here, you know, as well as Bryce Harper, what not so as much as I want to talk about what’s on the field, and you and I will do that all summer, yeah, this is going to be percolating. The layer is going to be percolating.

Ron Cassie  34:29

Yeah, it’s, it’s as of as a, you know, monopoly, you know, and you’re a fan. It’s like, we want to see the best product and grow this, grow the game

Nestor Aparicio  34:41

and next guests. Oh, great. Oh yes, yeah, I’m gonna wrap

Ron Cassie  34:46

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up with you. Okay, good. I’m only good. I love aunt Maddox from the BMA. I’ve been to the Amy Sheryl exhibit, but I think sat her down as a fan, the sport has to figure that out, that just can’t have the Dodges by the. Pennant in the World Series every year. I mean it it subtraction the game overall. I don’t think it hurts the pie, the players salary pool. Why does that? Why does it necessarily do that? Think it’s kind of short sighted.

Nestor Aparicio  35:14

I’ve been through three strikes here, right? Four strikes, three work stoppages while I’ve been on the air. Yeah. And when I make this point that that is, I always call it Adam and Eve and the original sin in the Garden of Eden is the Yankees and the Dodgers were never going to get online with any of the pirates and the Royals, yeah, and the players were never going to have it. And how the structure of the union is for the players the battle drums this summer, and whether Gunnar Henderson is going to say, I’m willing to walk a picket line, you know, when I’m I’m in a arbitration year, when I could be making $20 million this year, whatever the number is going to be. That’s always the hardest part for the older guys to talk to young guys in the holding.

Ron Cassie  35:58

Why does revenue sharing necessarily reduce the pool of salaries? Well, you’re gonna have to ask the I guess. The idea is that the Dodgers and Yankees just drive the bidding up so high everybody supposed to ask to go along behind them. I think the idea

Nestor Aparicio  36:11

is that the pirates and the Royals, they would never have enough money to fund them in a way that they really would spend the money, and they would pocket the money the way all the owners have in baseball. The luxury tax money was a scam, system set up for people like that creep down in Miami to steal all the money, right? I mean, that’s really what happened Luria while I’m in an art house here, you know, like doing all that.

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Ron Cassie  36:32

It’s a, you know, we go back to what we the conversation started like 619, 60s baseball, the pirates were so exciting, you know, the San Francisco Giants,

Nestor Aparicio  36:41

that’s what they thought 92 to until they stopped spending money. Right up until

Ron Cassie  36:45

92 they were great with Van Slyke and bonds with me and that whole crowd. But, you know, going back, you know, to the Clemente, Willie stargill saying, Guy and Al Oliver, unbelievable hitter, that whole era, you know, all the way through 83 and you know, the San Francisco Giants had great teams with paid and Mays and McCovey and the aluminum. Oh, my God, sure. But we don’t, you know, we don’t have that anymore.

Nestor Aparicio  37:11

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I’m gonna let you go focus. Frank Robinson, book up one more time. I love my borrow that my life is baseball. Frank Robinson, my life is Ron Cassie, Baltimore magazine, April during the 1960s what’s on the cover.

Ron Cassie  37:23

Cover right now is best restaurants. If you want to see that on the newsstands, I got tasting this, and if you want to go to April, Okay, the next issue, it’s John Waters, 80th birthday, and Mr. Waters is on the cover.

Nestor Aparicio  37:35

And another benefactor, wonderful BMX friend,

Ron Cassie  37:38

Max Weis, wrote the profile to go with John Waters.

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Nestor Aparicio  37:42

So, so Max Weiss was hanging out with John Waters. Yeah, pay for that. Yeah.

Ron Cassie  37:47

I want to they were hanging out, and we got it. We the photos are John are great.

Nestor Aparicio  37:51

And I’ve never met John. I’ve had him on my show. He did the show, like, three years ago when he did the sex Valentine thing that he was doing, yeah, and I asked him to come on, and he agreed, and he came on. It was a big deal for me. I did my hair, you know, I shaved, having John Waters on. And I’ll talk to Anne about this too, because I know he’s done a bunch of stuff. And you want to come sit in Come on. Ron says he knows you. I’m gonna let you in here. So I’ll just, you know, I’m gonna, I’m gonna go old school here and do it this way. So.