Making the case for why the players on the team and the fans of the franchise deserve upgrades to the starting rotation and bullpen at the trading deadline, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Orioles potential moves as the hot August nights of Baltimore baseball are heating up.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
orioles, trade, clubhouse, talking, trade deadline, pitching, played, deal, give, move, wells, pitcher, player, bullpen, fans, andrew miller, tyler, rodriguez, october, ace
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
What about w n s t, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively into our 25th anniversary week here. We’re going to be a Costas on Thursday celebrating it again on Friday at drug city. In Dundalk. Luke has never been to drug city. I’m trying to drag him down for a big boy milkshake on Friday before the Mets come to town. We’re gonna be a Costas all day Thursday stuff to give away. I have all sorts of like sort of old school stuff here. When I’m going to be presenting Look, I don’t know if you had I’m petered out bumper sticker. But these are from 2006 We still have some of these available we have some this was our 10th anniversary on 8808. These are the actual tickets from that we have some old nasty newsletters lying around here. How good looking I used to be if you can, you can see back in the day, but we’re going to be doing all this stuff at cost us on Thursday. Then again on Friday a drug city giving stuff away give it away scratch offs in the Maryland lottery as well supporting our friends from wind donation. It has been 25 years as of Thursday, John Moran is going to come out he is the one guest I know that he was at the radio station the day it opened. So John Moran is going to be joining us cost is Thursday, Friday drug city lots and lots of celebrities and fun and guests. Be a part of it. But again, somebody new will be an Oreo right loop by by Friday. By Thursday, by Tuesday night. The Oreos are going to be transformed because I saw John Angelos and Mike Elias and they’re drinking beer and eat pizza in the skybox and they were texting and things are happening and they pulled Jordan Westberg and added they not trained him already Luke tout to fit face to towel, don’t they? I mean this Oriole thing is wearing people out on it because it’s daily. It’s not like the Ravens we get the pitch about it for six days and wait around and wait around and wait around. It’s like here and now lose to the Phillies get out of bed and play the Yankees.
8Luke Jones 01:52
Yeah, and oh, by the way, still in first place still enter the Toronto series with the best record in the American League. And yeah, there are questions and who’s going to be traded? Who’s going to arrive? Who’s going to be the perceived savior? Will there be a perceived savior? guessing we’re gonna see that extreme that dramatic of a move, but certainly with Tyler wells having been optioned on Sunday to double A buoy. You’d have to think they’re adding at least one starting pitcher, you know whether it’s going to be I don’t think it’s gonna be Justin Verlander. At this point. I don’t think the Padres are selling the way it sounds. Although who knows? That’s why I was
Nestor Aparicio 02:32
all in on Snell. Well,
Luke Jones 02:35
look, it’d be great to have him from a rental standpoint, but are the Padres selling? Right? I mean, that’s why it’s so tough talking about this. And you know, two weeks ago, three weeks ago, when we really started talking about the trade deadline. It sounds wishy washy at the time, but you’re saying, You know what? Who’s going to be a buyer and who’s going to be a seller? And we’ve seen that, okay, the the Chicago White Sox have sold we’ve seen a lot of that. And in fact, I think you’d look at some of those deals and say, you know, the Orioles they couldn’t have beaten that that trade offer, you know, for that individual when you look at some of these pieces that have been traded from the from the White Sox, looking at G Alito and Reynaldo Lopez or Lancelyn, you know, but at the same time you look at some of these teams like the padres, like the angels, for example. You and I spent so much time with the dream of Shohei Otani and the angels became buyers rather than selling Otani and selling off their other players. So, it’s just so tough to to try to project that. I mean, who would have thought three or four weeks ago that maybe longer, let’s say six weeks ago that the Mets would have been sellers, you know, and talking about, you know, trading shares or maybe trading Verlander. I mean, it’s just, it’s wild. And
Nestor Aparicio 03:47
8whatever tell you about that time that idiot Gillick who’s in the Hall of Fame tried to do for Chris widger tried to train us out on the playoffs, we made the playoffs we beat the Yankees or 96. So, these trading deadlines, it’s not my first rodeo here as to whether you’re a buyer or seller, but this is our first rodeo where the Orioles have been where they are and position where they are against the rest of the division where the Yankees not only the Yankees struggling you just beat them up. Right and they have all this sunk money. The Red Sox are a mess, that this looks like the window of our lifetime. If you’re a 55 year old Oriole fan, or a 40 year old Oriole fan, this is the window to say they better win one year in the next five years and whatever the pathway to doing that is but this is not a a go fish here. This is you’re in first place. You have the most amount of talent to deal from you can get anybody you want theoretically if you think they’re gonna help you win. But then you wake up and Tyler Wells’s and buoy and you’re like, ah, you know, I don’t know if our who’s gonna pitch for us, and what are they going to give up to get Scherzer What are they gonna give up to get Verlander? What would they have had to give up to get Otani if he really were available and what they’d be willing to do it? And what Jr. Be willing to pay the bill?
Luke Jones 05:09
Yeah, I mean, these are all the questions you’re talking about and law. I mean, we talked about the Otani thing, and he’s not being dealt Scherzer has already been traded, Verlander? Are the Oreos going to be in on that? I mean, I’d say this from the standpoint of they have one of the lowest payrolls in baseball. I don’t think it would take a ton to get someone like that in terms of prospects, because of the money, the financial commitment. I mean, unless you’re talking about the Mets being willing to dump money to try to get some better prospects. So I think the Orioles are gonna be in on that. No, I think you’re looking at best case scenario would be a Blake Snell type guy, who again, is he even going to be traded, you know, considering the Padres are suddenly playing a little bit better. And mathematically, I’m not saying it’s likely, but they’re not out of the wildcard picture. And that’s what just makes this tough because you have three wildcards now, I mean, you mentioned 1996, there’s one wildcard then it was still a very, I don’t want to say very a much more defined market of buyers, compared to sellers. Whereas I think, other than looking at the obvious teams at the top or the obvious teams at the very bottom of the standings, got so much gray area when
Nestor Aparicio 06:21
you can get to 88 wins all of a sudden, you you’re a buyer, right?
Luke Jones 06:25
Or it’s a case of Okay, maybe we’ll do a little bit of both. I mean, what can I do the Orioles proceeded last year. And again, I get it, no one really expected the Orioles to be one of the wildcards. But they were in that race until the last week of September. And they even sold off a couple pieces. So that’s where you look at some of those middle of the road teams where you say, all right, some teams might do a little bit of both, they might, they might sell off a piece that is a depreciating asset in terms of a pending free agent or an older player or an expensive player, but they might go make a move that adds an interesting young player to the mix. So that’s where it’s just so difficult to look at that look at this. And specifically, it’s difficult to look at the Orioles because we don’t know what how Mike Elias in this front office proceeds in terms of being a buyer and what that looks like. So you know I I don’t think it’s Justin Verlander to be very obvious, you know, to be very clear, but I think you look at the look at Marcus Stroman, although the cubs are looking like a team that may not sell. We’ve talked about Eduardo Rodriguez. You know, Jack Flaherty, still there for the Cardinals after they dealt Jordan Montgomery who had also been linked to the Orioles, you know, but he ends up going to Texas. So you’ve got guys in that tear? You know, I’ve heard the name Michael Lorenz and from the Tigers. But, you know, these are guys that they help the floor which by the way, I think helping the floor of your starting rotation is kind of an understated part of this given where Tyler Wells is at this point, given where they even were Dean Kramer and Kyle Bradish. And certainly Grayson Rodriguez, where they all are from inning standpoints. So it’s not as though you add a Flaherty or add a Michael urens in that it’s not going to help you at all. But is that really moving the needle for October? No, I questioned for
8Nestor Aparicio 08:22
Kyle Gibson’s would that really helped me, I guess that’s what I’m asking you.
Luke Jones 08:26
I think it helps you for the rest of the regular season, right, in terms of maybe managing some of your young guys. And you know, skipping someone if there’s an extra off day or two built in, and you kind of maintain you know that they’re the workloads that way. But is that helping? You know, is that improving your wind probability in October? No, that’s where I struggle with this. So if you’re, if you’re acknowledging that being an unknown, how much are you willing to give up to add another star or two to the mix? I’d be shocked if they don’t add one star. I mean, let’s, I think I was feeling more and more that way, even before they option wells, even before Wells had his poor outing on Saturday night. But it’s just a matter of who’s it going to be. Now, when is it going to be? You said three more Kyle Gibson said, Well, they’re not going to add three. But would it be someone else that
Nestor Aparicio 09:15
I’m saying if I had three Kyle Gibson’s would I feel better about October? I don’t know that I would. Yeah. I mean, I really, I would almost say, Give me three grace and Rodriguez and I’ll take my chances this year. Because I have three Grayson Rodriguez in the field. I mean, I don’t know what I’m gonna get out of Henderson or rutschman. Or these guys haven’t played those kinds of games, either. Right? So this is new to all of these guys. The veteran part of I’m a veteran, and I’m a five era guy. You know, I don’t, I would, I think the fans are going to be more forgiving this year in that. It’s already been fun. It was fun Sunday night. It’s going to be fun the rest of the way. I don’t know that they need to win the World Series, but if they’re putting themselves in a position To win the World Series to me, it doesn’t have to be November 3 of this year, they need to put themselves in the best position over the next three or four years to give them themselves a chance to win every year. And I think that goes without saying that they’re not going to give up the whole farm for anybody. But I’m also not of the mindset that they’re going to have enough that we’re gonna look at this and say, Oh, this is our year, no matter what he does at the training getting Verlander. Oh, this has got to be our I don’t know. One of our starters is in buoy right now. The other one in Rodriguez. I don’t know what we’re getting. Kramer didn’t make 90 pitches the other night, right. I mean, I, we don’t have an ace. We don’t have a we have a they’ve been really good for two or three months, and we’re crossing our fingers and the back end of the bullpen was phenomenal in the spring. We gotta get that back to where I’m actually they need a bullpen arm, even though that the kid from Oakland spin. Okay.
Luke Jones 10:53
8Yeah. Fujinami. This last couple times out. I mean, he was really good on Sunday night candidate. He wasn’t pitching in a high leverage spot. But missing bats. I mean, he throws 100 He’s got a good split, I think considering where he was statistically with Oakland and what the Orioles gave up to get him which was not a whole lot. I think that’s a move to me that has some promise here over the next couple of months. So definitely I totally agree with you that they need another bullpen arm because this is where we keep talking about this. How do you solve this problem in terms of alright, you start again, and you kind of work backwards, right? Felix, Batista is your best pitcher starter or reliever Felix Batista is their best pitcher, right? So you go backwards to front? How do you get to him? And is that more starting pitching? Or is that adding another reliever or two that you can make that six, seven thinning chain that much stronger? So the answer I’d to me is, I think a combination of both now, how much are they going to do? How much are they going to be willing to give up in terms of their farm system? You know, like Westberg
Nestor Aparicio 11:57
if he walked off the field Sunday night, and he was involved in a Verlander deal, how would you have felt about that?
Luke Jones 12:04
I mean, I’d have to see what the rest is. I mean, you know, Jordan Westbrook himself is a player that I think has a really good future. Is he going to be an all star? I don’t know about that. But I think he can be a really good player. And just to be clear, for anyone listening who may not have seen postgame stuff on social media. Brandon Hyde made very clear that was not a trade situation. That was the Orioles had a lead. And they had Adam Frazier playing left field. Bring in Ryan McKenna for Senator Austin Hays moves the left and then Frazier went to second base. That’s why Westbrook came out. I saw him in the clubhouse. He was packing for the trip to Toronto. That’s not to say he won’t be traded. But I don’t think that specific move was had anything to do with the trade. But
Nestor Aparicio 12:47
what that’s part of the fun of doing all this. So something like baseball rug alert, right?
8Luke Jones 12:50
You know, we’ve heard that term on social media for a few years now. Hug alert, you know, anytime someone gets taken out of a game and you see him start giving hugs in the dugout, you think that there’s a trade but but I think what’s interesting, because you brought this point up, and I think we’ve talked about it, but as we’re with the trade deadline, basically upon us, you know, as you and I are talking, we might mention some players who are being dealt or have been dealt. But to me, that’s where you look at some of these guys that aren’t just rentals, you know, like, look at Dylan sees, for example, I think the White Sox want to keep him, I assume they want to keep him, there has been plenty of indicators that for all the other players that they’ve sold off, sees who’s under control through 2025. You know that that’s going to be if they are moving him that’s going to Command much more. But if you’re the Orioles and say, You know what? We can add a legitimate ace to what we have right now. And oh, yeah, we haven’t for the next couple years, then. Yeah, that’s the kind of move that I think you take a long look at and say, okay, it helps us this year. It may not put us over the top and winning the World Series, but it makes gives us better, you know, gives us a much better chance
Nestor Aparicio 13:56
you get to put Colton Couser in that deal.
Luke Jones 13:58
Well, but that’s when you get back to you are going to have to give up something to get something right. I mean, this is one thing that’s bugged me and I even made this comment on Twitter or x or whatever they’re calling it these days over the weekend that you see some Orioles fans talk about the Andrew Miller for Eduardo Rodriguez trade. And they speak of that as though Rodriguez is a three time Cy Young Award winner. Don’t get me wrong. He’s a good starting pitcher. And at times, he’s been a very good starting pitcher. And it’d be great to add him at this current trade deadline and would be their best starting pitcher, or at least certainly their most accomplished. But you look at that trade. You look at that deal. people kind of forget the Detroit Tigers were trying to get Andrew Miller at that point in time at that moment in time and think about how that series went even though Yeah, the Orioles swept Detroit in the divisional round. But if the Tigers have gotten Andrew Miller does that series flip and it’s different and maybe we’re talking about a much
Nestor Aparicio 14:57
8Delmon young swings and misses. Yeah. actly Exactly, yes.
Luke Jones 15:01
So the point is you’re you’re trying to, you will always have to give up something to get something. I mean, I know fans constantly dream about that you’re gonna completely fleece, your trade partner. But
Nestor Aparicio 15:14
the Rex Barney phone calls because back in the 90s when you were a baby, and I was doing sports radio for the first couple years, Rex Barney was on the air, and he would take the phone call, and little Luke would call in from Shrewsbury and say, Mr. Barney, Can we trade for Barry Bonds? I want to treat Jack Foyt. And we owe Gomez. And they’d be Yeah, sure. You know, like that. That doesn’t. That’s a very sophisticated market, right? I mean, let’s call it what it is for money for years, for agents for what they’re gonna have to for needs depth and organization. Nobody knows more about what he’s doing than Mike Elias, I’m committed to that, that I’m committed to whatever he does is probably a good decision at this point.
Luke Jones 15:54
Yeah, I mean, I think that’s fair, I think it’s fair to question and ask for, you know, and I would even say this much, and I wrote this at Baltimore, positive.com and the aftermath of wells being sent down to me, you have to add a starting pitcher. And that doesn’t mean it’s going to be Justin Verlander. Let’s be very clear about that. But you need to add a starting pitcher. And I think, even from a clubhouse standpoint, forget about fans and media for a moment, just the guys, the 25 or 26. Guys, you know, more than that, really, when you count some of the guys that have been on the Norfolk shuttle, but they’re looking at this, and they’re saying, alright, we get it. Tyler was struggling, you know, he was bad his last few times out. But he’s also been our second best starting pitcher, and you guys just send them to double weigh. And, look, that’s fine. You know, I’m not saying that we’re burying them, or we don’t expect them to be back or pitching meaningful innings and meaningful games for them in August and September, and hopefully, October. But you look at that. What message does it send your clubhouse? If you option Tyler wells to the minors? And again, I don’t have a problem with that move. Let’s be clear. But if you do that, and then you don’t add a starting pitcher, or you add a very fringe kind of starting pitcher, that’s not moving the needle whatsoever. No, I’m guessing that probably won’t sit well in the clubhouse. I’m not saying not suggesting there’s a mutiny or anything like that. Let’s be very honest. But I my overall point is, yes, you want to maintain the long term health of this farm system, the long term health of this organization, you want to maintain a 567 year window of having a chance to win a World Series, whatever it ends up being. But at the same time, you do still have an opportunity and a moment right now to try to take advantage of this. And you have a team that has the best record in the American League, that these guys on this current roster and I’m talking about rutschman. I’m talking about Gunnar Henderson, I’m talking about Kyle Gibson, and some of the, you know, not many, but the few veterans that are on this team. Not only do they need some help, they deserve some help, because they played that well this year. And again, that doesn’t mean
8Nestor Aparicio 17:58
Santander and these guys, Brandon Heidecker from who’ve done a lot of getting their ass kicked on summer nights for 340.
Luke Jones 18:07
No doubt. So I think I think that’s something that you consider, again, that doesn’t
Nestor Aparicio 18:13
fan base? Well, of course, of course.
Luke Jones 18:15
And I said, I’m saying just put aside for a second. But that’s part of this. And we talked about this at the trade deadline last year. Remember, they traded Train Man Seanie. Most people expected that. But then they also dealt Jorge Lopez and look, that’s that turned out to work out nicely, because you got your kiddo and Kate Povich is one of your best pitching prospects currently, but at the time, that was a ticked off clubhouse to the point, if you recall, Mike Elias actually flew down to Texas, and addressed the team because that’s how unhappy you know how unhappy and confused the team was at that point in time, because he made some comments about basically saying, you know, we don’t think that making the playoffs is a very high probability proposition which, by the way, he wasn’t really wrong in saying that, but when you say it publicly, yeah, it’s gonna it’s gonna ruffle the feathers of your players that and you got to you have to remember that. So in the same way, you look at where they stand right now, with this opportunity, being in first place, having the best record in the league, and having just sent down Tyler wells, knowing you could definitely use another bullpen arm. If you come up empty here, and your only trade deadline activity is acquiring Fujinami who, hey, looks like has a chance to help them down the stretch. I think you’re gonna have some guys in that clubhouse in addition to the fans and media, that’s a given. But you’re gonna even have some guys in that clubhouse who I don’t think they’d say it publicly per se, but they’re gonna be kind of saying, hey, you know, what’s the deal here? Now we played so great. You know, we have the best record in the league and see the Rangers making these moves and these teams trading off pitchers and what have you. And, you know, what did we do here? So I think there that is a factor that isn’t driving Mike Elias You know, I don’t think that’s at the forefront of his thinking. But I think it’s part of it. You know, I think it’s part of you have this group that has gotten you to this point, as you mentioned, a lot of guys, you took a lot of bullets for a long time, you know, when you talk about hey, Santander, etc, that, you know, you owe it to this current team to put forth a, you know, legitimate effort here to make yourself better, doesn’t mean you’re trading off the farm doesn’t mean you’re devastating your system doesn’t mean you’re putting a major dent in your list of top 30 prospects. But there are deals to be made. And we’ve already seen some deals to be made that I think would have made sense for the Orioles that Hey, okay, they didn’t get it. You know, that’s not to say there aren’t other players that aren’t available at this point. But I think you look at this group. If we’re talking on Tuesday night after 6pm. And we’re talking about the Orioles having not made any more moves. I think you’re gonna have not just disappointed fans, and questioning media, I think you’d have a disappointed clubhouse as well, because these guys have played that well, that they deserve some help. And again, doesn’t mean it’s going to be top of the market kind of help. But I think they deserve some help here to try to fortify this thing and maintain what they’ve been able to do to get to October and look on paper. You’re right. They don’t have that ace. But, you know, 2014 they were they got to the ALCS and Chris Tillman was there ace, the Kansas City Royals, a team they played that year, who was their ace, but their bullpen was their ace, quite frankly. So, you know, there are different ways to do it, and we’ll see how it plays out. But you have to think that another starter and I would think another bullpen arm, you’d really like to see them come away with each of those. Each of those items as we’re recapping the trade deadline here in the next 24 to 48 hours.
Nestor Aparicio 21:51 I’m gonna leave John Angelo’s out of this although I did find it very interesting. David Cohen said, it’s nice to have your bank next to you when you’re out there texting. And so all the images of alias John Angelo’s buddy buddy Ian and John getting little FaceTime on TV drinking some beer on what not I leave him alone. Oh by the way, Westmore squirting people with the kid and and home plate and there’s images of he and John Angelo’s talking right on the field there. I’m sure they were exchanging lease ideas, but I’ll let that go because there was a trading deadline. And we have our 25th anniversary. We’re going to be Costas on Thursday. We’re going to be back at drug city on Friday upstairs at the fountain if you’re coming by on Friday, giving away lots and lots of historical wn S T mystical relics as well as swag all it brought to you by our friends at the lottery is some scratch offs to give away our friends a window nation on the fun floppy hat letter Rascon has given me the special a crab claw with the beer opener that I’ll be utilizing a cost is right around 4pm on Thursday afternoon 11 to four on Thursday cost us 11 to four on Friday at drug city all the brought to you by the Maryland lottery and window nation. We’re gonna make some trades. We’re gonna talk some football around here we’re gonna celebrate 25 years around here and we’ve got some Maryland crabcake tour updates as well for for the community. We’re going up to green mount station and a couple of weeks. We’re gonna be back down and Glen Burnie at Pappas very very soon a backup in Harford County as well. I am Nestor we are wn st a 1570, Towson Baltimore and we never stop talking Baltimore positive
