With the Orioles surging on the field under new ownership, our favorite local sportswriter and columnist John Eisenberg returns to discuss his continued findings amidst a 25-year-old collection of tapes and stories with former Birds of yesteryear who contributed to his book on franchise history.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
earl weaver, talking, baseball, orioles, tapes, years, hit, eisenberg, interview, pitching, john, work, find, story, bird, earl, pitcher, players, grand slams, baltimore
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, John Eisenberg
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are wn S T am 1570, Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore positive I got my my PacMan scratch offs here. I’m supposed to do the waka waka waka thing we’re going to be giving these away. On Wednesday at Hampstead green mail bowl we’re going to be Greenmount station watching the Orioles take on the angels in the afternoon on Wednesday and then on Friday, we’re going to be rekindling our downtown memories of the old Hooters shows some 30 years ago. We’re going to be distributing all that and the 25th anniversary documentary that comes out on Thursday night and on Friday will be fake news from two to five Luke Jones will be with us live from two until three the It’s a big day first off draft night Thursday draft night Friday, Luke is headed back out to the castle not to the Oreo game up my Oriole credentials are under review. So we’ll see if I get there on Friday night. But we do have two seats we have to be in on Friday, and we’re going to be fadeless giving away the PacMan scratches all the courtesy of the Maryland lottery in conjunction with our friends at Liberty pure solutions, keeping our water clean as well as Jiffy Lube multi care this guy is a defending champion around here repeat offender. And you know that Susan Ford off on this week talking old baseball stuff. I reached him I do John Miller not that John Miller, the other John Miller, who’s doing the book on Earl Weaver and there’s Earl Weaver stuff because my phone listens to me John Eisenberg and when I say Earl Weaver into it suddenly pictures of Earl Weaver and these old St. Louis Browns uniforms sort of show up and he looks like little rascals. And it shows up on my timeline. And then you’re like the are Weaver tapes are being delivered today. And I’m like, All right. Your bird tapes are all over my feed dear mentor, John Eisenberg, former columnist and scribe during the Golden Age of newspapers, back in the day, and I’m trying to relive a little bit of that in my documentary this week. What have you on earth and these baseball tapes you told me about a month ago that you didn’t know a month ago because I feel like you’re peeling back the onion because when I talked to you and even listened to some of this stuff,
8
John Eisenberg 01:59
I had not listened to some of it. And yeah, I still haven’t listened to some of it. I mean, it’s, it takes a little bit of doing to get these things up. And as you well know, to get them up and maybe edited a little bit for clarity and then out to the public. So I’m scrambling as fast as I can and I got some help. I got a guy helping me and Jim big word and and so the great job
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:27
is helping you that GYMPIK went to the gym big what do we know know that guy? Good with it was in Dan Rodricks place gonna say he was just fantastic. And Dan Rodricks play right. That’s how I’ll always remember Jim despite he has many. He’s worn many hats around town and MPT and other places in order to park he’ll always be the actor and dance play to me.
John Eisenberg 02:47
Yeah, yeah. Well, he’s a tremendous audio guy, and he’s really helping me. And so I’m learning. I just sitting in and listening. And there’s so many stories that I’ve forgotten. I listened to two hours at Brooks Robinson and I love the story. He told, I completely forgotten it that when he signs up in the commissioner’s office, he’s in trouble because he thought he gotten they thought he got money under the table. The Cincinnati Reds were mad that they didn’t get him. And, and so they went straight to the commissioner’s offices. It was the bonus baby era of baseball, there’s no draft. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:24
8this is 1957. Literally 55 Even before that, okay, and
John Eisenberg 03:28
so that’s a crazy story. Certainly as you know, with Earl an hour with Earl. I mean, one thing after the other, I had him as I wrote in my post at the bird tapes, it’s bird tapes. substack.substack.com he, you know, I interviewed him on a on a morning of fall morning in 1999. He was sort of lukewarm about the whole thing. I mean, I knew him and and we got along all right, but he’s kind of like we’re driving to breakfast where he’s gone. I’m gonna interview him and he says, how much how much are you paying me for this? And I said, Earl, I am not paying you a dime. And he goes ah, you know he’s mad. But so he’s such a piece of work and he just had many stories once he kind of calm down you know, just on and on about different things I peeling back the onion I’m finding unbelievable stuff. I mean, next up in the barrel I think I’m going to do Paul bleyer I’ve got like 90 minutes with the late Paul Blair talking about how he got to the Orioles and what it was like to be you know, a black athlete playing in Baltimore and it’s it’s pretty intense stuff and there’s gonna be a lot that’s all I can say. I’m holding back some guys I’m holding back Frank Robinson. I’m holding back cow Jr. Boog Powell. I got Dennis Martinez talking about how the oils got him out of the jungles of Nicaragua. There’s so many stories Is it and I am excited about it. And it’s a lot of fun to be bringing it to people
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:04
that you were late to get to bland. You’re correct.
John Eisenberg 05:07
Yes, I missed him. Yeah,
8Nestor J. Aparicio 05:09
I’m trying to think of who you missed and who you got and like, was there a Don Baylor or Bobby Grich Doug de senseis. I, I just go through names. And part of this is the same thing for me like I reached the Don Stan house this week. Don is going to come on the show next week. And I keep relationships Greg Olson and I are still close all these years later, and I reached out to him and different players and different people, but I can’t reach them. Like Flanagan right now. Neither can you. And I have some archival Flanagan stuff. But Flanagan never sat on the air with me in an archival way. It was always as the General Manager or tonight’s game, or last night’s game in the same way I could talk to you about Albert Suarez right now. But I’m talking to you about the history, oral baseball, I’ve sat with most of these people that you talk about, but I don’t know how much of it was when I’m sitting with Brooks, that we’re really talking about those kinds of things, because Brooks was always talking about tonight starter pumping gasoline and crown gasoline. But it was always a current thing. This retrospective thing, I mean, a lot of these guys to your point, would poopoo it and say like hardball is always what I don’t want to talk about. We don’t talk big. I don’t want to talk about big picture comparisons or this or that. And all of a sudden you start you went to them specifically to what did you What was your entree to them? What did you say I’m writing a book on Orioles history. And I want to talk to you about what
John Eisenberg 06:34
it I wanted to talk about it. I wanted to talk about everything you experienced in an Orioles uniform. And I know there’s not enough time for that. But I’m going to do what I can. And so yeah, I have a long interview with Elrod Hendricks, who, of course in many ways was sort of, you know, was was there was a lot of institutional memory with Elrod Hendricks, I have my plan again. This is interviewed in 1999. I can’t remember where he was. He wasn’t a GM yet. I think he was a coach.
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:05
But might have just been the television broadcaster. Right. It just been there. And
John Eisenberg 07:10
8you know, it’s Mike Flanagan at his best, you know, funny. And Ryan, he’s talking about the late 70s When you know, his glory as a pitcher. And how I can’t wait
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:19
to hear that now. Like, I mean, for me, for my heart for my relationship with him. I didn’t do a lot of that with him. You know, we were friends in the real world. And we didn’t do a lot of that he would recollect things. But like, that’s just, I mean, that’s gold. That’s gold. John, you have that it is
John Eisenberg 07:37
it is and I’m, you know, trying to be trying to do this in a, you know, a manner where I don’t just throw everything at people. I mean, let’s let’s bring it out a little bit at a time. And it’s a lot to sift through. Certainly I put up with my Earl Weaver tape yesterday. And, you know, I heard from a lot of people and and there’s a lot of different ways to go with this. Somebody asked me I was doing in an interview, they said, Did you have any of the general managers? I said, I think I have all of them. I have. I mean, I have Lehman fail. You know who was in the early 60s? I have Harry Dalton,
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:16
early Hunter.
8John Eisenberg 08:16
Pardon me,
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:18
Billy Hunter.
John Eisenberg 08:19
Billy Hunter I interviewed for my book. Yes, I do have Billy Hunter. Try Jim Frey. No, did not have Jim was still
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:29
8alive and living here in sort of kind of that era. Right. I mean,
John Eisenberg 08:36
I missed some guys. You know what, Blanchard certainly was a big miss. He was already sick when I was doing this in the fall of 99. I mean, that’s the year he died. And so he was sick. And that wasn’t going to happen. calcein year I missed calcein year would have been unbelievable. That’s also the year he died, I believe. So. And I didn’t get some people. I didn’t get John Miller this in the broadcast or this was right after he left and and I of course have a great relationship with him. But so there are definitely so
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:07
I could still call him if you want. Yeah.
John Eisenberg 09:10
Oh, absolutely. Well, I
8Nestor J. Aparicio 09:12
mean, it’s never listen, I mean, what I do with Baltimore positive. Now we took phone calls here forever. I’m way more about these kinds of conversations. The kids call them podcast, John. But their conversations, reciting the history as people see it and their points of view, and they’re all like little books in themselves. And I was conducting a series of interviews 15 years ago, before Jan got sick. I was working on a book on Baltimore leadership. So I sat with anybody who had had a leadership role, and I still have all of these tapes. They’ve never been on Earth. They weren’t meant for radio. They weren’t that sort of format. They were, I guess maybe they’re meant for like what we do now, which is just talk to each other. But it wasn’t miked in that way, professionally or anything like that. It was more be written in a book. And at some point, I’ll whip it all out and I’ll be like, Oh my god, I can’t believe Jim or se said that or I can’t believe Jim Schwartz said that. I but you have this from all of these years and some of these people are here or not, but the resurrection of Oriole baseball and the sale. Give me your ideology on the last 90 days of you unearthing this because it is gold. I’m encouraging everybody to go follow John Eisenberg who listen to this stuff. It’s right in my lane. I think it’s in the lane of people who want to fall in love with Oracle baseball again, and realize the last 30 years they’ve been so great, but we won’t be reaching to Miguel to hada for his recollections or Jeff Cohn, you know what I mean? Like it just it just won’t work that way. Not even Adam Jones or Manny Machado, I think there’s a different part of that part of oral history that no one will ever have the way you have it right now.
John Eisenberg 10:49
Yeah, could be Well, I appreciate you giving it the shout out. And, ya know, it is one thing that it does make you realize, doing all this now and and I’m not gonna lie part of the reason I’m not sure I’m doing this, I’m not sure I would be doing this if they weren’t gonna be 50 games under, you know, 50 games out in America at least right? It’s just a better vibe about the team now. And And honestly, when I started thinking about doing it, the vibe has exceeded expectations because the team got sold. You know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:25
what a bonus, huge bonus.
John Eisenberg 11:27
8Just a massive upgrade and terms of the vibe about the team and what it’s all going to mean and where we are going forward. And there’s no doubt they have a real nice team on the field right now. And it’s games are fun to watch. And they went a lot of them. And certainly when I was watching the series with the Red Sox, wasn’t last week, maybe the week before when they went up there and swept and my thought, Callie, I was watching these games. And it’s like, well, the oranges are like, way better than the red. So I told
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:58
my wife, I’m like, no, they’re really good. Like they’re better than I’ve ever seen. You would agree with that. You’ve been here 40 years, man like this. There’s not there’s never been anything just for the field just for where they are. Forget the owner. But that’s important. I mean, not forget it. But But that’s, that’s tertiary if not secondary, just the fact of what they are and how they’re comprised. And this opportunity where the Red Sox think and the rays are figuring it out and the Yankees are old and sort of brittle. And here we are man a month into the season. And I guess part of this is putting the thermometer in and saying all right, Jackson Holliday this and Colton Couser that and Jordan West. I mean, it’s typical baseball. That is the reason we love baseball because we really don’t really know how it’s gonna go. But as I’ve said the Luke a couple of times, they went to the west coast this week, and they’re coming back to take on this issue of the Oakland Athletics this weekend. And I’m doing a lot of what that is in the mess of that for Major League Baseball, as opposed to the potential of this and what this can be in this rebirth. The team has been on the field for the first month, advertisements playing 700 ball out of the gate, some good some bad some pitching up some pitching down some bullpen problems, but some of the young talent I mean rutschman hadn’t even hit yet. You know, some of these guys aren’t even having gotten hot yet. But the cows are Westberg thing in the holiday thing. The fact that we’re talking about those kinds of guys, it reminds me of when I hated the Oakland A’s and 73 and 74 and we had my dad schooled me on this early on. Coggins Bumbry. Grich Ballanger. You know, that baler? Oh, my God, all of that not body bail or Donda. All of that was coming into that pot in 73. Four and Five before the Flanagan did before the trade before McGregor any of that happened. And this is the only thing I can compare it to. But they did make that deal for Earl the big Katt Williams and that didn’t work out well for Earl Weaver.
John Eisenberg 13:54
Well, Earl and I were we were talking about that in my interview with the mate said, really ashamed but just wasted a lot of talent there. He said he didn’t want to catch just didn’t want to catch. So it’s it’s so interesting to listen to Earl talk, talk about this stuff. And he did also very interesting to hear him talk about something that literally is where the orals are right now he was talking about not after 1971 where he’s in the they’re in a World Series with Frank Robinson and Davey Johnson and, and you know, it’s like what we’ve we’ve got, you know, Don Baylor and Grich sitting in AAA, with nothing left to prove, and what are we going to do with them and Errol said, you know, we did with him, you find a place for him to play that trade Frank and, you know, in Davie goes and the next generation comes and I think that’s probably a lesson to learn that resonates today, you know, Colton cows or give him a little bit of a shot. Look what happens. I mean, his second time in the major leagues, he’s really good, and he ain’t coming out. And so these Young guys, what do you do you find a place for him to play? You know? It’s is it easy? No. But you can’t really deny the young talent and so it’s gonna come. So there’s a lot of hand wringing and oh, what are we gonna do? And where’s curse dad gonna play? And I wouldn’t want to be Austin Hays right now because, you know, you’re wavering even just a little bit. And he’s been a good player and a good citizen. But these young guy, you know, the young talent is going to win out well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:26
and financially, it’s going to win out. And you know, and look, you and I talked business a couple of weeks ago, just about where the money’s coming from, you know, as I declined to spend $14, for a beer in Syracuse the other night at a Springsteen concert. It’s, you know, it’s the $14 beers, it’s buying tickets, it’s the subscriptions. It’s the media, it’s all of that that will keep these players here, but for the here and now, and for new ownership that can afford whatever he wants to afford, quite frankly, at this point. We’re in a summer where the pitching part of this is going to really become the story for how means develops and Norfolk whether he gets here, whether Bradish comes back healthy whether these guys get in the rotation or not. And whether to your point, the deep depth of the Kobe, Mayo’s and the guys they have on the farm, whether some of Austin ace weather, some of these pieces, talked about dealing mountcastle, two years ago, now he feels like he’s a part of this O’Hearn part can’t get rid of those guys. But at some point these at bats that the current stats and the counters are picking up like the fire under the Mullens in the Santa on dares. But the trade part of this and the amount of artillery and financial wherewithal to take on a great player and a real salary for eight weeks if you’re going to rent a player. The Orioles are in play the way the Yankees were or the way any franchise would ever be. They are as in play as they’ve ever been, because they have this. And that’s something they never had at a trading deadline, where they’ve got a five game lead to chance to get a number two starter and really go into October with the kind of pitching that they’re going to need. Because this is an October. I mean, it’s crazy, dude, it’s April 28. And we’re talking about them. Definitely being in the playoffs if we’re worried about the starting rotation in October, but I’m already obsessed with that part of it. Yeah,
8John Eisenberg 17:11
well, you got Corbin burns, pitching game one who’s gonna pitch Game Two is the question right now Grayson Rodriguez, really, his numbers are pretty good. I mean, he’s getting to be most nights. You’re in the ball game. He’s leaving in the seventh inning, they’ve given up two runs and he’s settling in. And so yeah, they meet just a tiny bit more. And very honestly, someone made this statement and kind of took me aback but it’s true. It’s they could or maybe not Otani. But the oils can trade for anyone they want anyone, anyone in baseball, who do you want, they can go get in because that’s how good their young talent is. Interesting thought. So that has
Nestor J. Aparicio 17:53
never crossed your lips in the history of your columnist, you know, status for 25 years at the sun like that. That’s just not something we could have ever, ever said. Even when they were like 9697 98 when they were good enough or 1213 1415 when they dealt Eduardo Rodriguez right. And we lost a few years of him pitching for the for the relief pitcher Miller but they haven’t. They just haven’t had this kind of talent. And certainly not below the swim line of maybe one pitcher and maybe one outfielder or whatever. And we even see what the L haul and the Keegan Aikens and the Dylan Bundys even all of these young players, it’s very hard. I mean, we feel like he came Machado away for nothing but every time Kramer takes the ball, I’m like, we’ll get you got a picture out of it. Yeah, we might not a number one, but he’s a pitcher.
John Eisenberg 18:42
Yeah, and it does show you the Machado deal. A lot of those just I never loved those deals. I you almost always regret them those July trades. Like you mentioned, you know, Andrew Miller that they traded for in 2014. It made sense and it and it got him it it should have gotten into the World Series in 2014. It made sense. And I understood it he was a good pitcher. And boy, you know, it was a really good team should have been to the World Series and that would have made it probably I can see worth it. But look what they gave up a pitcher who has had a long career and, and a lot of times, I’m not sure you’re coming out ahead of those deals in the long run. So I just sort of hate them.
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:24
8I’d make that deal all over again July 29 with Andrew Miller this year, if it’s that if it if we get a Batista in a deal, like a guy demand date, that’s going to be the differentiator and the differentiators. They have the money. They have the talent Oh, they have a genius running the team too. So like that on top of that? I am I’m a believer that they’re gonna pile dive here, John, I mean, you know, are they’re really gonna have a chance to do that. And it’s the first time in 32 years on the radio that I can be bullish about that and I don’t even know if the new owner is going to be creepy. Let me back in. I’m under review whatever the hell that I should ask you a real journalist what does that mean that I’m under review but whatever they are, they’re gonna the next three October’s they have a real window here even if they don’t sign any of these players or invest in a will they have a real chance here to row the brand 35,000 people there last Sunday John I
John Eisenberg 20:19
know I know the attendance is way up and and it’s great it’s really fun it’s a fun day at the ballpark and and things are rolling you know they’re they’re really good i i will tell you I went away for the weekend last weekend I went to Pittsburgh and I’m sorry I’m glad you came home had a great time in Pittsburgh honestly it was a lot of fun but the went with some friends of ours and I did take in a ball game they were playing the Red Sox and the pirates they have a beautiful ballpark set against the river their view of the downtown skyline and and the Orioles went in there a couple of weeks earlier and they had a tough time I think they lost the series but you look at it at things even out over time that they have a nice young team in Pittsburgh not as good though not as good as as the as the Orioles and, and they had a decent crowd. They’re not as big. So you know things are things are rolling here. There is no doubt and you can see it and some when you say some other places. So it’s pretty exciting times. Can’t Have
21:25
you mentioned Pittsburgh beating Baltimore in a baseball series without asking you if you you found grant Jackson, did you find grant Jackson? No. Grant, you know, he
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:37
was a pitching coach for five minutes in the 90s with the team and I met him your left hander and he you know, he was on the he also pitch for the Yankees. So he was part of the deal. So like, you know, there was a guy there that you know, Buford, Buford?
8John Eisenberg 21:55
Buford, I interviewed I’m not I’m gonna have your testimony here. I got a shoebox full of tapes and I got to dig through some I have Jackie Brant. I can tell you that all
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:07
right. All right. All right. That’s good. Did you do treon dosha. And those guys do have that arrow Genteel.
John Eisenberg 22:13
genteel, I have on tape. Gentlemen, Chad,
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:17
8my dad’s favorite players right there genteel and Triano. So it’s my dad’s guys. Triano.
John Eisenberg 22:22
So I did on the phone and I so I don’t think I have it on tape. I did interview him for the book. genteel I went to his house and Oklahoma, drove to his house. I was down in Dallas, seeing my family and drove up and interviewed Jim genteel and he told me the great story about when he had to a grand slam in the first inning and a grand slam in the second inning in Minnesota, and added to the story, don’t be I’ve been out all night. out all night before he hits the two grand slams. He said, Yeah, I didn’t think I was gonna play and I didn’t honestly think I was sober. But, you know, hits two grand slams by the second inning. So the
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:04
best part of that story is I’ve stood at the plate where he hit those grand slams right there in the middle of the Mall of America. I have you know, right there under the Harmon Killebrew statues, that’s perfect. John Eisenberg is here. They should have a statue for him in his tapes. He’s got the bird tapes. You can go find him out on substack correct is the best way to do this job. Yes,
John Eisenberg 23:24
bird tapes.substack.com. That’s, that’s where it’s that’s where it’s pinned. That is, that’s the home. I’m
8Nestor J. Aparicio 23:32
wearing my curio, a wellness and foreign daughter shirt here after 420 with the the bird on it. So the bird the bird tapes? How many hours of this? I mean, do you even know? I mean, you literally have tapes in a box. I told you, you should be transcribing this stuff on otter because that’s really helped me doing the documentary The last couple of weeks and finding pieces of stuff I want I on Earth some I have you talked about archival stuff. There’s a message from Brooks Robinson in my 25th anniversary documentary that I almost didn’t find and even insert and for your pleasure for your pleasure. I found using otter Lost Tapes of John Steadman and I chatting and John Steadman said something very, very poignant about me and my career. In 1995, before the football team came here, this was at the barn. He came out to the barn and did the show with me before we even had the team because I didn’t you know, we didn’t have we didn’t there were all colts then there were there were there were two kinds of guests then old Orioles and old Colts. That’s what there was. And, you know, just going through archival stuff and finding these gems, like just you hearing URLs voice and you being there, put you on that golf course and hearing the birds again and wherever it was. There’s a time and place for all this and I think that’s the beauty of what you’ve on earth is that we can all sort of go back in time with boo Oops, or Brooks are with Earl, you know, people that’s maybe still here like Jim Palmer and Bucha people that aren’t here anymore. But this is truly gold. And I’m, I’m, I’m really looking forward to continuing our conversation as you continue to unearth this stuff. So I can come to you and say, What’s your fine this week? John, you know?
John Eisenberg 25:21
Well, I’m good to some degree finding along with everybody else. That’s what makes it fun. I it’s there’s more than I can do at one time. I mean, I have a shoebox full of tapes. I am cataloging and going through who I’ve got, and now trying to decide who want to order. What’s the batting order here. That’s a big decision. And I want to hit different eras and different things. Certainly. You know, Paul, I mean, I’ve sort of been focusing on the earlier years, obviously with Brooks and then Ernie Harwell, and now Earl, after it’s 50 Hummer thing. And so, you know, so I have a lot of stuff from different areas, and I’ll move it around some.
Nestor J. Aparicio 26:07
Well, John Eisenberg has the bird tapes. I hope everybody goes and checks it out. Like I would talk ravens and drabs, the Ravens gonna be fine, right? That’s what you’re gonna say about them. Just leave them alone. They’ll pick some lime in this weekend, they’ll pick a wide receiver, and they’ll say they’re all going to be great. And we’ll all gather a couple of weeks and they’ll still have a quarterback, a linebacker, a special safety and all pro center, a tight end coming back. I’m just going through the list of their assets because we will be discussing their weaknesses this week. Right? Yeah,
John Eisenberg 26:35
8no, that will add some it’s really important that they hit on some of these picks. I mean, they’ve lost some guys but they they’ll they’ll find they have some guys from last year that yes, to answer to agree with what you said the Ravens will be fine. They know what they’re doing.
Nestor J. Aparicio 26:50
You worried about Jackson Holliday, you got anything to say on that?
John Eisenberg 26:55
Let him hit let him Let him wait till it happens and just keep playing. He’s, he’s got great talent, he didn’t suddenly lose his talent. I’m not that worried about his psyche. This is a kid fully expects to be here and hit 300 and kinda knows that he will. So just keep rolling with it.
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:12
There you go. And there’s there’s that piece with Brooks back in the early part of the tapes where he like, couldn’t hit his weight. 1957. And look at that. That’s like all of these guys have that serif. And all of these great players tell that story. All
8John Eisenberg 27:25
of them cow was what four for 32? Or what was it and Brooks, he’s told the story. You know, it was many times it gets two hits in his first game. He calls his mom that night. Hey, this is easy. And then he goes like, Oh, for 25. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:39
Palmer to Palmer’s career was in jeopardy early in his career. Definitely.
John Eisenberg 27:43
He was available and what was the rule five draft back then, you know, basically that nobody took it? So yeah, you know, Major League Baseball is hard. It is very hard. And so it is a major leap from AAA. That’s that’s the lesson.
Nestor J. Aparicio 28:02
8Every single night. I hear Ben McDonald and I know you were there. The day he was drafted. You probably interviewed his father, Larry, he just lost recently. I found Ben as a star when I came in the locker room in 1992. When I worked with you with the paper in the 80s. There, we’ll see you this in the documentary this week. But I mean, we found Ben McDonald to be the Savior for the franchise at that time, and it didn’t work out that way. I find it just fascinating. 35 years later, he’s on the broadcast, and he’s so good at it. He’s the best sense like Lowenstein, like he’s just so good at it. But more than that, some nights I hear is all shucks and all that. And I think, what does he know about? Oh, he was a 1111 didn’t fail, but didn’t succeed. Right. I mean, like, had a nice career would have been nice under any circumstance. If he was drafted 23rd In the first round, you’d say had was good and whatever. But when you’re one one and your hammer BJ, sir, off you sort of where that forever that you go to the Hall of Fame, or, you know, the 15 year career you had somehow wasn’t, you know, was Andrew Luck. It wasn’t Peyton Manning, you know? Right.
John Eisenberg 29:06
Right. Yeah. And that has been the fate. He’s pretty funny talking about it. I mean, he has a great attitude, it obviously didn’t crumble him. And he did have a good career didn’t get hurt, too. He got injured. And
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:19
he makes the games better, right? Like, I mean, the games as a fan at home, which is the way most of us, I mean, all of us get all the road games that way, right? Like the broadcasts are really really important. And, and seeing it now when the team’s good, it’s even more important. And I think it’s more important that you get educated I think Kevin Brown always talking about Well, I was talking to Mouni in the cage today, and we were talking about launch angle and see you know, spin rate and like all of these things that you and I never talked to Greg biagini and Dick BOSM and about it the cage because it thinks didn’t exist. Yes,
John Eisenberg 29:51
well, that all has changed. I mean, it was the it is the science of baseball, the nuts and bolts of baseball, and of course there’s a lot more science, so they’re used To be, you know, a little too much, I you know, there’s there’s a little too much always, always laugh when the pitching coach comes out you know and and you know, it used to be you go back 30 years pitching coach would kind of amble out there and you know, you know, scratch his shoulder and say, you know, are you flying open your shoulder and you know, don’t do that anymore. And yeah, that was it that now they come out and guarantee they’re talking technique and spin and all this stuff. So these, these conversations have gotten a lot more complicated and Sure hope there’s an interpreter if he’s speaking Spanish. So it’s gotten more complex.
8Nestor J. Aparicio 30:36
You and I geese out and I had Susan going off on this week talking about Dave Kingman and the rat and her being a female in the early 80s, and the news, American, all this stuff that plays into, you know, the documentary and plays into like what you’re doing with bird tapes. And what I’ve done with trying to archive 40 years of doing this for a living and meeting you when I was a snot nosed 16 year old kid in the press box Memorial Stadium one day Mr. Eisenberg. I had a close relationship with Tony Gwynn. I mean, like it just I spent a lot of time in San Diego chasing girls staying with my aunt, you know, going to baseball games. There was never anybody there was Jack Murphy. There was nobody there. I mean, I would walk into three o’clock and and I knew everybody because Mel proctor was there. The Padres people were there. And I befriended people and Tony Gwynn would sit with me and and I was in his It was literally a closet. It was a closet with video cassettes. They were stacked up, they were all sloppy. And he had a VHS machine that he used to hit. And this was in 1994 567 This was science. This was this was my dad getting a copy of Ted Williams the science of hitting which he gave me when I was six years old. My dad used to get the slide projectors on technique and Rod Carew and how he like my dad was really into baseball and really into the science of baseball and Ted Williams and Sam usual and had a hit for a better average and walks are good as a hit. You know, all those kinds of Earl Weaver stuff, my dad love that stuff. But Tony Gwynn, I went through the tapes and art and archive to see if he said my name or said something that I could use. He didn’t. But I sat and I looked at the part of it. And I thought, man how far we’ve come where he was the only guy doing it then really the only guy doing it. And then there was a room that the Orioles had where they would bring guys in and start to before they threw me out and those six, the CO nine Ziggy era by then five, six years later, they had a video room and they would study video. But come on man, you were down in Fort Lauderdale in the early 90s We Cal and surf off and paint any video and any of that stuff. They had it they had a ball on a tee in a cage and some hot coffee there and mice running through the place you know
John Eisenberg 32:56
Yeah, yeah, no, it was a little crappy stadium and now it was it was it was pretty sad. But you know where the Orioles were in the early 90s Before Sarasota so yeah, they didn’t they didn’t they did not have there just wasn’t the science to it that there’s so much more information now. And it’s pretty amazing, honestly, and that’s sort of lost in all this. I think the Orioles as much as they deserve credit for hitting on all these draft picks who are who are now here or knocking on the door. They’re also really good at finding guys mid level on the Suarez is the latest guys who are on the quote unquote scrap paper that you know their team would be willing to get rid of them that might have something within their talent that the Orioles think they can maximize, whether it be spin rate or a certain pitch. They’ve done it all over the bullpen I mean CNL Perez and Webb who was in and and you know, there’s tons of guys oh,
Nestor J. Aparicio 33:54
cool, long Batista canal, we just go through this. And we can talk about Fuji and the guys that have failed, but that’s the other thing. They’re fearless. I mean, you know, not
John Eisenberg 34:02
8gonna be it’s not going to be 100%. And I knew why they brought Fuji and I mean, I mean Fuji some, but I just couldn’t quite harness it. But But yeah, so they’re there they find these guys. And Suarez, my goodness. I mean, that’s pretty good to find a guy that’s pitching the Korean League and to talk him into it. Don’t go back there. Come here and we’ll work on. We think we can unlock your heater and you can throw four miles an hour faster and be a major league pitcher and he’s like, Well, okay, and
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:31
you know, I’m 34 Maybe he’s better as well and he might be 38 I don’t know.
John Eisenberg 34:37
But I know I can’t remember how I’ve used the phrase. At one point last year well, we’re gonna go put him in the lab. They call it the line. Oh,
Nestor J. Aparicio 34:45
that’s what I’m saying about these cats. If they let me back in and give me a press pass. I am too inquisitive. And way way way too old and having done this forever and ever and ever having had a press pass for 22 years all Over the sport and like all of that, to see the changes, because I’ve talked to modern coaches, and I talked to one coach, specifically, who I befriended maybe a decade ago, who was old world manager, current world, coach, bench coach kind of guy in the big leagues. And he just told me how much it’s the sport has changed. I sent it to meet us for three and a half hours 10 years ago, and he’s like, You won’t believe what analytics is done. And now the analytics and all of that has made its way to the broadcast. I guess what I’m saying where I’m getting a little more educated than if I go in there. I am, to your point of silver hair, where I really don’t understand that part of the science of the sport. And having explained the way Tony Gwynn could explain moving his wrists or the way a pitching coach, or could explain what we hold the ball in the seams like this, where it’s not like that anymore. There is completely rotational science in regard to all of this that Luke loves that part of it, my dad would have loved it. To your point, you and I are like, yeah, just you know, just give me nine endings. You get it in two and a half hours. But there’s there’s a deeper dive to be taken, I think in modern baseball, and Earl Weaver would love this back back to your birthdate. Earl would eat this up, right?
8John Eisenberg 36:15
Oh, well, he would have been for me, he was sort of the first and foremost dummy. He, in my interview with him, he talks about how the index cards got going, you know, he goes to Bob Brown and it and it was it’s how his mind work. It’s all it is, hey, how do you give me How does boot pal hit Jim lawn board? You know, Can you can you get me that information? He asked Bob Brown, how long would it take for you to get me that information? And he said, Oh, it’s easy. Bob Brown, like Bob Brown said it’s easily done. So that’s where it started. And really, that’s almost the ground of the ground zero for modern Analytics, you know, is there a waiver saying can you tell me how x hits y, and I’m gonna make my lineup up on, you know, with that under consideration. And so it’s pretty crazy, where they that it’s come from there to that point.
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:05
It’s amazing to me all these years and Rubenstein bytes. And we say something like Bob Brown, Bob Brown of me. He loves me. You know what I mean? He loved me because I was in Aparicio. He loved me because I love baseball. He loved me because we could sit and talk about like, all Bob Brown was the historian of or like literally write like, of all the names you’d mentioned if it’s lost than anybody else. That was Charles Steinberg may be the next version of that. And Rick Vaughn and some of those folks that really carry the history of Oriole baseball in them that we Cal and Billy right now with their father, but they’re we’re losing a lot of folks that can’t speak that language. Right. And that’s why you’re keeping this alive, honestly. Yeah.
John Eisenberg 37:46
Yeah. Well, it’s a lot of fun. I’m enjoying it.
Nestor J. Aparicio 37:48
8All right. Well, I love you, you know that. I appreciate you John Eisenberg, mentor, friend, colleague, Ally, sometimes foil and foe, when we’re discussing things maybe we haven’t talked about the designated hitter. And we’ll do that in the next segment. You can go check out the bird tapes that he has out there and and support him and what he’s doing at substack. As always, we’ll be supporting good local journalism around here. And great wise conversations, John. Oh, you’re crabcake we’re gonna get to the ballpark at some point this year. All right. Sounds good.
John Eisenberg 38:17
I appreciate it. That’s always they’re too
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:19
good to ignore. I am Nestor. We are wn St. am 1570, Towson, Baltimore. Luke and I are going to fade these on Friday. Oakland A’s in town. Lots of wise conversations coming your way here at Baltimore positive
