Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Sunday afternoon injury to closer Craig Kimbrel and the evaporating Orioles bullpen as the New York Yankees come to Baltimore ready to compete for first place in the American League East.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
bullpen, talked, kimbrel, batista, yankees, felix, craig kimbrel, play, year, cano, signed, point, orioles, weekend, good, arm, sunday, season, prospects, baseball
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are wn St. Am 5070 tastic Baltimore and Baltimore positive were positively positively taking the show back on the road at some point in Maine, Maryland crabcakes, where we’ll be at fadeless. For all the home games you were there on Friday are friends from the Maryland lottery giving us these Pac Man giveaways you gave a bunch of away, did have a couple of winners took some pictures. It was kind of fun. also did the same thing at the Greenmount station last Wednesday, you will hear those conversations about and it is Derby week this week, you’ll hear these conversations about the future of Maryland racing and the history of Maryland racing. I was delighted to meet Alan form and also chatted with David Richardson through vignarajah joined us down at fadeless on Friday and we had a conversation I will also be doing the Lexington market very, very important. Master ceremonies for the crab races on the 16th of the month. You’ll find all of that out at Baltimore positive this guy joined me on Friday. It was hectic that was so Jackson holiday ago. That was so two out of three ago that was so nine football players ago and three days of drafting ago and what Jones is telling off in the corner to our left as the Yankees come to town and Dude, I don’t even know if this weekend with all the draft picks and all this stuff. And we would always say the ravens are the king and the NFL is the king and 95 of the top 100 programs in the country are football in the NFL. But the Kimbrel things all over my timeline far much more than any of the kids that were drafted this weekend or the offensive line or how do they not get guards or who are the guard like all of that’s going on for football but the Yankees are attached. I gotta go play baseball, and the bullpen is on fire Luke Jones, You
8
Luke Jones 01:49
Are we really that surprised? I mean, I this was my concern about this baseball team going into 2024. And let’s let’s pump the brakes. Losing two out of three to anyone in baseball is not reason for panic. This is still one of the best teams in the league. This is a team that, uh, for all the current concern about the bullpen. I’m not saying that concerns aren’t valid. They very much are. But they’re 17 and 10. They still have a very good winning percentage when you stretch that out over 162 games. But Craig Kimbrel, blowing two saves over the course of the weekend, leaving Sunday’s game with upper back tightness, we’ll see how that plays out. I think it was evident that something was not right with him. I think the body language on the follow through. And I’ve seen a lot of people criticizing Brandon Hyde and Brian evil over that. At the same time that Craig Kimball is not 22 years old, if there’s something bothering him knowing that some other pitcher can come in and take as long as he needs to warm up. But you say you’re fine. Most managers in baseball are going to give you the benefit of the doubt when you’re a 35 year old, closer, who’s been to all these all star games is high up on the career saves list, whatever. So it’s a difficult situation. But he didn’t get the job done clearly. And I think it was evident that something wasn’t right with Him. So it’s disappointing. You’re talking about a series that easily could have been a three game sweep and you lose two out of three instead. It’s the difference right now of starting this Yankee series in second place compared to being in first place. So yeah, it’s disappointing, and it’s concerning in a big picture sense. I think we need to understand what Craig Kimbrel is. And we talked about this when the Orioles signed him. This is not the Craig Kimbrel of 10 years ago, I think ever anyone who had that expectation, I don’t think many people did, but this was never going to be Felix Batista. And as I said over and over and over throughout the offseason, and especially when we got to the beginning of spring training, and we knew that Kyle Bradish John means we’re not going to be in the rotation. And in turn that meant Tyler wells and Cole Irvin or whoever other, whatever other starting candidates you wanted to talk about at that point, would no longer be surefire options for the bullpen. We said there was a trickle down effect here and last September, the Orioles did an admirable job navigating a month, a little more than a month without Felix Batista, navigating a 162 games season, and then what you hope will be a long October without an all star closer of that magnitude was always going to be a different animal. So I said it before the season started. I think this team needs at least one more high leverage reliever. Whenever it happens, whether it’s April, whether it’s May, whether it’s the trade deadline, if not to arms of that ilk. And Michael is to this point has not done that. And we’ll see how this plays out because it’s important to recognize Kyle Bradish is coming back this week. John means is very threw a jam with Norfolk on Sunday. He’s going to be back in the picture.
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:04
It is weird, like good news, bad news thing all the way around and the you know, the Yankees are coming bad news. First place. Good news. You know, starting pitching good news hitting the ball. Great news. You know, there’s just, you know, that’s the curse that not getting it better. Yet you know, it’s up and down and up and down every day. Friday night feel good. Saturday, not so good Sunday really bad Monday we’ll see. Right. I mean, that’s baseball. What you know, we haven’t had these, these sort of waves in a long time here where it’s still April and the clothes are things a mess all of a sudden, right. Well,
Luke Jones 05:43
that said, they’re currently on pace to win 102 games, which is what more than they did last year. So it really is a case of pumping the brakes, realizing what this team was going into the season and again, I wasn’t. I wasn’t trying to be an alarmist talking about my concern about the bullpen at that point in time. And let’s be clear, if you look at this statistically, we’re not talking about the Orioles having the worst bullpen in baseball either, right. So yeah, but if you’re
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:12
8gonna win a World Series that has to be a strength, not a weakness, that has to be an exclamation point, not a question mark. Right. Literal. Sure.
Luke Jones 06:19
Well, and what but that’s why, and I wasn’t alone. i It’s not
Nestor J. Aparicio 06:24
an exclamation point on November 1, which is my grandmother’s birthday All Saints Day, then you didn’t you didn’t win the World Series. You know, that’s like you have to have that. Yeah. Like, oh, you get through October, you have to have somebody that can come in and get high leverage three outs, shut the door and game shake hands. drink champagne. You know what I mean? Like, they didn’t have that last year, and it sort of fell apart on them in that way. But that wasn’t the reason that a lot of the things that happened to Texas you and I witnessed that had nothing to do with the closer they would have wish they would have bad that problem. But they’re you know, when you’re going to need something. I don’t know something better than an injured Craig Kimbrel. I’ll give him all the benefit of the doubt being injured.
Luke Jones 07:04
Sure, and I see it. I think the Texas Rangers were an example of I mean, the Rangers didn’t have a dominant shut down bullpen. But you’re either going to need it with your starting pitching going deep in the games. And while this starting rotation has been mostly fine, right? I mean, obviously you have burns and Grayson Rodriguez at the top. Corbin another really good outing for him over the weekend. You know, he’s been a pleasant surprise here after it. Didn’t get off to a great start. Albert Suarez wasn’t good. Sunday had been really good. His first two starts. I think he’s someone I’m looking at right now the same, huh? I think he’s someone you could move into a bullpen role. And that might actually look really good, especially considering his Velo as a starter. Does it take up if it’s shorter outing, so I think that’s a possibility. You know, I’ve talked a lot about Tyler wells. I mean, he’s not healthy right now. But once he is does he potentially slot back in to a bullpen role? I think that’s somewhere where where that could work. So the trickle down effect that we talked about at the beginning of spring with means and Bradish being out of the picture, impacted the bullpen but now with them being back in the picture and keeping fingers crossed, of course with both those guys, but it can have a positive trickle down effect then because you might be able to put an Albert Suarez into the bullpen mix
8Nestor J. Aparicio 08:23
50 leads a week you get out of those cats that you weren’t getting before, right like good quality starting innings different Enix well, and
Luke Jones 08:32
like I said, whoever was previously starting, then you can put into your bullpen. And like I said Suarez could be a heck of a seventh or he might be this year’s Junior Cano in terms of someone that could really slot in and suddenly be an option for you in the seventh or eighth inning. You know, like I said, We’ll see where Tyler Wells is, once he’s off the IL, that returned doesn’t appear to be quite as imminent, but they do expect him back. But you know, you need we talked about this a lot last year, right. I mean, they even even with the bullpen being what it was with Felix Batista leading the way we talked about how much they had to lean on those guys and I, I would say it somewhat flippantly, but also seriously and saying, if you play a few more blowouts, you know, if you have a few more games where it’s eight to one, you don’t have to lean on Batista and Cano every night. So that still applies in the sense that not that they’re not scoring a ton of runs because they are but something else has to give because you either need your starters to go a little bit deeper. And then you’re relying on the back end. bullpen guys a little less. And we’ve talked about the fact that how many guys in this bullpen Do you fully, truly trust trust in the sense of pitching in a one run game and eighth or ninth inning? Kimbrel right now we have to see what it looks like physically, but he was never going to be Felix Batista. You look at Kimbrough over the last five years, it’s kind of in this they’ll have some stretches where he looks like the old Craig Kimbrel and then he’ll have some stretches where he can throw strikes and knees looking nice. So good. Again, just go look at the era if nothing else over the last five years, you’ve seen that there have been some seasons where it was really a struggle for him. So it’s not to say to me that don’t sign them. It just means that this was never going to be a trade off of injured Felix Batista healthy Craig Kimbrel. You’re fine. There.
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:20
That’s one thing about giving a guy that kind of money at that point he still might be he’s not an is he’s he used to be a you know, but he’s, he’s still a might be a 35 not an IS. And I think that that was the trepidation with everybody. But you would also say then, if not him, then whom? Because that’s where they are now. Right? Where they are now is okay, he’s hurt. So what are they going to do for a couple of weeks? Maybe, you know, whatever. Like, who’s going to close these games this week? In? We don’t see the Yankees as much as we used to. They appear to be really in the way in a different kind of way this year. Where? Yeah, Red Sox are not much Tampa doesn’t look right, Toronto’s. Okay. I mean, even in the early going, Houston looks to be disappearing. Cleveland looks to be emerging in some way. Even Kansas City emerging a little bit earlier in the year. But the at least it appears like, we’re going to look back in September, we’re going to whatever happens your next couple days is going to mean a lot. I mean, percentage wise, you’re the math guy, you know, against all of it, because you don’t you’re not going to see the Yankees every couple of weeks, the way we’re used to the last 50 years. This is rare opportunity. And what happens late the next couple of nights will be a measurement on Well, we signed Kimberlin and he wasn’t there. He wasn’t there. Saturday, wasn’t there Sunday. Let’s see how the rest of the week goes. Yeah.
Luke Jones 11:42
8And look. This is also part of dealing with free agent relievers. I mean, go ask the go ask the Astros, how they’re feeling about signing Josh Hader to a near $100 million contract. I mean, he’s been a disaster. He’s been way worse than what Craig even Craig Kimbrel the last couple of days. So, you know, that’s part of this. That’s why when you discover a Felix Batista, it’s gold. It’s when you discover in your keynote, even if he’s not the Cano of last May in June. It’s still gold, because you’re talking about someone that’s cheap, and there’s no real risk involved. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 12:16
yeah, I’m chasing Don Stan house and Greg Olson was making jokes the other day, but all of these guys are this long. We go back to Lopes, I was gonna make an Andrew Miller jokes, they couldn’t get anything out of him. You know what I mean? Like, just relief pitching is fleeting. And it just it probably always won’t be because it’s what it is. So you need to catch that moment. Wherever that moment is. And not the name you know, they can’t go sign and Bruce Souter right now, you know what I mean? Like, it’s the moment of where we are, and they’re always trying to figure out who the next to know is, and you’re always trying to say, well, he could project as that kind of arm to be that kind of bullpen guy. I mean, we had Zach Britton around here is pretty good for a while, and we let him get splinters out of his backside. But none of these guys are forever. And it does feel like you’re trying to find this ascending fit to get a summer out of like, Ocean City girlfriend.
Luke Jones 13:15
Yeah, I mean, for every example of Mariano Rivera are someone who does it for really long. Look at Craig Kimbrel. And let’s not throw dirt on the guy just yet. I know what it looks like right now. But look at the career. He’s borderline Hall of Famer, for every guy like that most bullpen arms are the types where you’ll get a really good season, and then a mid season and then a good season. And then it might be a really terrible season. I mean, it really is think of the highest risk stocks you can play. And I’m not, I’m not a finance guy or anything like that. But it really is that kind of unpredictability. And that’s where I will take up for Mike Elias, to hit a point. And say, it’s really easy to start trading prospects in the winter, when you’re going off of some relief, some hybrid leverage reliever that pitch for you know, just take your pick, you know what this whatever team has an example. And you say you want to sign that guy or you want to trade prospects for that guy. And then you come to realize the following year, that guy isn’t that guy who was the year before anymore. So there is something to be said, of trying to look at as many internal options as you can. One because it’s more affordable to it’s not the risk of parting with known, you know, prospects in your system, who are going to be valuable, whatever you end up doing with them, whether you play them or whether you ultimately trade them. But you’re always looking for more information. You’re always looking to assess and evaluate where any anyone is, as a player, you know, whether we’re talking about a position player, whether we’re talking about a starting pitcher or a lever. So they elected not to do more than what they did, which was signed Craig Kimbrel, which I’m still not going to throw dirt on out just yet. I think their options were limited in terms of if you were going out and signing someone, unless you wanted to go give Josh Hader $100 million, which I’m sure you could probably find lots of examples of Oreo fans calling for that over the winter. And we’re seeing how that’s working out for the Astros so far, which is not well, so, you know, you try to do the best you can with the information you have in front of you. I think it was always naive. If anyone thought this bullpen was just going to be totally fine, as it was presently constructed. And I’m not even talking about Craig Kimbrel struggling in the moment and having questions in the moment just in a big picture sense. The best case projection for what Craig Kimball was going to be in 2024 was still not going to be anywhere close to the magnitude of what Felix Batista did for them for the first five months of last season. So it was always going to be a question of Do they have enough in the bullpen? And I think we’re seeing the answer to that is very likely not. But in the meantime, they’re playing 630 ball, they’re still on pace to win 102 games, even after losing two out of three to the A’s. They’re one game behind the Yankees starting this four game set. So it’s not as though all is lost or it’s panic time. But I think it is evident that something’s going to have to give in terms of them. beefing up this bullpen. And in the short term, if Kimbrel has to go on the IL then. Yeah, you’re looking at, frankly, you asked to close his games. I think it looks like it looked last September, which was very much a committee approach. I think Cano is kind of the default, first in line, but I think it’s very much matchup based and you’re looking at who’s who’s fresh and who’s due up. Were
Nestor J. Aparicio 16:44
putting quinoa in there for a month. He can’t blow a couple. Yeah, I mean, he just doesn’t mean but but again,
8Luke Jones 16:50
who you know what I mean? Like that’s it was supposed to be Kimbrel. And that’s why I even said when they signed Kimbrel that I wouldn’t necessarily view him as my undisputed every night no questions asked, closer because I didn’t think he was that kind of guy anymore. So, again, I think it’s there’s a there is excitement and optimism from from the standpoint of reinforcements coming towards the starting rotation. Kyle Bradish. Fingers crossed, but they clearly feel good enough now that they’re putting them back in the Major League rotation. I expect we’re going to see him Thursday. That’s not official. That’s still TBA. But, Brendan, I’d said that he’s made his last rehab start. So you do you do the math in terms of who was due up, John means was outstanding on Sunday, that was really good to see because the rehab stint had not gone particularly well for John means overall, so good to see him. So again, you put those guys back into the major league staff, then who can you potentially move to the bullpen and who can you know, whose roles can you slide around a little bit and maybe you can find something that really fits. Like I said, Albert Suarez was a great Sunday, right, you know, didn’t continue this scoreless stretch that he was on, but I see an arm and stuff that to me. I think he can at least really help them from a middle relief standpoint. I certainly don’t want to try to pass them through waivers to get him back to Norfolk that much is certain, you know, he’s pitched well enough to not want to do that. So, you know, I’m not saying he’s the end all be all. Let’s be very clear. He’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:22
not going anywhere right now. Especially with an injured guy in the bullpen. And it feels
Luke Jones 18:26
like he can help and maybe he can help to a high degree and maybe that helps you out some when you’re talking
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:33
8about to injured kind of pitchers coming back into the rotation the next week and a half. These cats aren’t going seven or eight. They’re not right. I mean, they’re gonna need the night. That’s where it’s gonna go or Brad, it’s just gonna go your first night of the bullpen. Right. I mean, you hope it’s not the nights with burns and Rodriguez go Yup, you don’t need that kind of bullpen. Right. Yeah. But
Luke Jones 18:55
that said, I mean, that’s I mean, the reality is who is consistently going seven or eight innings. I mean, Corbin burns isn’t going consistently seven or eight innings and we you know, we can talk about that if you want to. But again, this is kind of how the game is. We talked about this last year. We talked about it the year before. I mean, this is where the game is at this point. I’m not saying that people have to like it. I’m not saying I love it. But it’s where we are. It’s how teams proceed. But but when you’re pointing that way you need three outputs for arises in your bullpen. Yeah, well, that’s why I said how many guys do you trust in the seventh inning one run game, eighth inning, ninth inning, you know, I mean, let’s be clear. You’re not going to have eight Felix Batista slash in your kynos in your bullpen, you’re not going to have eight Zach Britton slash Darren days and your bullpen. That’s not how it works. But you need to have it I would say a minimum of four guys that you really feel very strongly about that can pitch the eighth or on occasion, even the ninth inning when it’s a one run game and feel that they’re going to do the job more often than not, to the Orioles had that did they have that at any point going into the season? I don’t think so. And that’s not even, that’s not even taking into account the current state of affairs with Kimbrel. with not knowing where he is health wise, but certainly the performance concern, too. So, you know, I think that was always a position. And we talked about throughout spring training that whenever it was going to be May, June, July, the trade deadline, that at least one high leverage arm needs to be added to this bullpen. But where is that arm? Where’s the fit? What prospects? Are you willing to give up? Is it someone that has another year or two of club control? And that changes the math in terms of the prospects you’re gonna give up? That’s what Mike Elias has to has to figure out. Again, I don’t think we’re that he has to make a move yesterday, like, I don’t think this thing is so dire to think that it’s gonna fall apart that quickly, but I think he’s gonna be looking at it. Certainly, you know, especially if this ends up being a situation where Kimbrel is on the shelf. And you’re kind of saying, Oh, how does the rest of this thing look in the meantime. So he’s got to be looked at. And I think this, we’re at a point now where you don’t want to panic just yet, because you don’t want to make a bad move in a result of, you know, in the midst of that panic, but I think you have to be prepared to make a move sooner than later i Let’s put it that way.
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:21
Well, they’ve never been more prepared to deal in the history of the franchise than they are, they’ve never been better equipped. We talk about this. Every day, we wake up, they’ve never been better equipped to win a championship. They have a new owner who I haven’t met her I don’t know much about but he can’t, he’s got to be better than the other owner certainly has more juice to be able to make things happen. They have a smart guy running the place, you know, a smart manager, you know, making decent decisions, although he was second guessing on the injury on Sunday and the body language that you were there and saw and felt, you know, I don’t know that I saw and felt that I don’t know that Palmer, or that, you know, what we were seeing from there looked like frustration in the beginning, right, and not being able to throw strikes. But we find out it’s an injury, I take that at face value, certainly from a 35 year old guy to your point who did not tap out or say something’s wrong, or this is a little weird. That’s for him to explain, and certainly the Yankees are coming to town. We’re gonna continue our conversation about the big bats. We’re going to continue our conversation about new ravens and an offensive line and interesting draft weekend all the way around the league. It’s a busy time. It’s Derby week around here this week. We have some Maryland crab cake tours stuff going on as well as our 25th anniversary documentary. No one listens. everyone hears appreciate all the incredible feedback for me through Greg Landry over Blue Rock productions attached to travel or tasks and transfers. I keep saying travel. I think I need to get away. Also, all the great narrators that participated and I’ve said kind words over the weekend so I’m appreciative if you have not watched it. It is 36 minutes 36 seconds long. Because 36 is my lucky number doesn’t really explain much but I am Nestor he is Luke our conversations continue on baseball on football on drafting on bullpen and big bats in the New York Yankees. Stay with us. We’re Baltimore positive
