You aren’t the only one seeing a lot new faces in the Baltimore Orioles dugout. Manager Brandon Hyde is a week into managing an unfamiliar roster that has a whole new lineup of possibilities and different humans in a pennant race. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the managerial decisions and pieces to the World Series puzzle that Mike Elias hopes he’s assembled.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
orioles, lineup, hyde, year, hitting, baseball, bullpen, week, play, players, lefty, team, slater, pennant race, nestor, feel, brandon, elias, point, holiday
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
8
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Luke Jones 02:11
I was just going to say, I mean, the tone of this conversation would have been much different if you and I had met on Saturday morning, talking about what happened on Thursday and Friday, but a good finish to the weekend, and you said a different lineup from May and June. How about two weeks ago? If the lineup, if someone had told you what Saturday’s lineup looked like two weeks ago, you would have said, like, did we go back to spring training suddenly, or something like that? I mean, you have Austin Slater at the top of the lineup, who I’m guessing most Orioles fans had never even heard of before, and Eloy Jimenez and go down the list. So it’s a really odd time Nestor, because you’re tied for first place, you’re now just under 50 games to go. I mean, we’re not quite at Sprint mode yet, but we’re getting close to that mode.
Nestor J. Aparicio 02:59
But when you were playing the team, you’re probably going to have to beat more so than the Yankees. Well,
Luke Jones 03:04
I mean, you’re going to whoever you whatever your draw is. I mean, this is a team that’s going to be in the mix somewhere. Now, if someone else knocks them off, then you’ll have to deal with that team, because Cleveland’s pretty good, and we talked about this when the Guardians came to Baltimore not that long ago. But you know, the question for them has been the quality of their starting rotation. And what’s ironic is, the Orioles actually got to their bullpen a good bit over this weekend. But that’s a really good baseball team. And I think what’s so unique for the Orioles at this point, and you alluded to it with a different lineup, but you know the bullpen as well. I mean, they have two new starters. It’s this strange time that it’s late in the season, yet it almost feels like early season watching this team, because of how many new parts they have that you have this, at least I do as a baseball fan, as a reporter, as a writer, all of that, where I kind of want to see this breathe for a little while to like, how’s this going to settle in? What’s the different team?
8Nestor J. Aparicio 04:04
This is a different team than the one that was playing 650 ball eight weeks ago. I mean, like, and the wheels coming off the cart in July. I mean, this is an interesting season, all the way around as to how Elias is going to manage this, Rubenstein’s going to own this, Hyde’s going to manage this, and then how the players actually go out and perform, because, like, you think Adley rutschmans and is, and you want to, you know, bronze him and send them to and then he has a bad month in the middle of a pennant race. And then you’re like, Well, what do we have here? And you have a lot of guys with holes in their swings. You have a lot of guys that strike, you know, swing and miss. You have a lot of strikeout you don’t have a lot of walk guys. So you have a speed team, though you at least you did, you thought you did when Mateo was so I don’t know what they are anymore, because when I look at them, I’m like, I don’t know what I’m getting at a Jackson holiday and Kobe may, let alone Slater, yeah. What do I know? Am I going to get out of these guys have been in the big league? A week, I look up holiday sitting 120 I mean, I know it’s a baseball card, but I look at it, I’m like, you know? I mean, I know a lot of that’s residual from earlier in the summer, but there’s no is. There’s only my bees in these bats, in these humans, right?
Luke Jones 05:16
I mean, to address Jackson holiday, Jackson holiday has been one of the bright spots since he’s been called up. I mean, he’s, what, seven for 18. I think it is. He’s had a couple home runs. He’s the strikeouts he’s had have been more a product of he’s got rung up on a couple really, really bad calls. Segment on,
05:35
on umpiring. Oh,
Luke Jones 05:36
8my goodness. I mean, I mean, and you know me Nestor, I don’t like complaining about umpiring. I don’t like complaining about officiating. I I noted it. I think it was Sunday, early in Sunday’s game. That weekend series was a clinic in favor of the automated strike system. Because, oh my gosh, that was just a lot of bad misses. Anyway, going back to Jackson holiday. I mean, Jackson holidays, you know, April’s in the in the dis, you know, that’s a long, long time ago. I mean, in the rear view mirror, and he looks a lot more comfortable. That doesn’t mean he’s going to just hit 300 the rest of the way. Let’s be, let’s be understanding of a 20 year old player in the midst of a pennant race. But he’s actually been one of those guys that’s given them a little bit of a lift here. I mean, they’re if there’s something you could say about this weekend series and what the Orioles have done over the last week, even though they’re still major questions about the pitching, even though their defense still needs to be better, and we’re still seeing too many defensive lapses, I do feel better about what what their offenses look like over the last week. I think it’s come come to life again. It’s been some unexpected contributors, like Jackson holiday, like Aloy Jimenez, you know, coming over from the White Sox and and having some big games over the weekend for them. And you know, you’re still going to expect you mentioned Adley rutschman. I fully expect Adley rutschman to start hitting again. You know, I don’t have any doubts in terms of who he is as a player, other than he’s really struggled over the last five months, five weeks, and that’s something that any player can can deal with. Go back and look at what Aaron judge’s numbers were for the Yankees the first month of the season, and how big of a story that was. And now look at what his numbers are. Now you know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:18
once you’re him, they don’t send you back to Norfolk. They let you play through it. And sometimes that can be scuffly Ugly. I mean, ask Ryan mountcastle At various points, and you know his on and off again. You know offense. But in the case of of rutchman, it is. It was alarming. But more than that, moving them down in the order of the lineups, different the entire they’ve changed the structure of what was making them successful. And if I were writing a column about that, it’s a Be careful. Be careful. You had a lot of success the way it was now you’re second guessing what you have. At least it feels that way to me through the slump, it feels like they’ve changed a lot, and that’s fine. You should change when things are broken, but they didn’t feel broken the first 90 days, right? Yeah.
Luke Jones 08:04
And, and, look, I mean, we’re not talking about drastic changes other than, I guess, Adley rutschman, who hit first or second from about what was it late June, or something like that, of his rookie year, until being lowered to fifth in the order here recently. That’s not like they lowered him the ninth, but it’s been that and Colton cowser, who’s moved into the leadoff spot, and he’s had, he has a long hitting streak, and he’s looked at as good as he’s looked at the plate since that two week Babe Ruth like stretch that he had back in April. So those have been good changes. I mean, I think if Adley rutschman starts hitting again at some point here, and yeah, we’re seeing some signs. Had some knocks over the weekend, had some RBIs over the weekend, so that was good to see. He’ll be back in the number two spot before too long. I would assume, unless everyone else is hitting so well that you just say, Hey, we’re just, we’re going to keep it that way. But I don’t
Nestor J. Aparicio 08:59
understand modern lineups, by the way, you know, I the modern analytics of Al bumbury batting first, and the guy that’s going to take pitches Batting second, and the second best player batting third, and the cleanup hitter being your guy, and the fifth guy being the third best guy. Like, that’s the way baseball was for 100 years. It doesn’t work that way anymore. Um, really, first and
8Luke Jones 09:20
foremost batting order doesn’t matter that much. I mean, it doesn’t beyond typically, the analytics would tell you you want your absolute best hitter hitting second. And that’s something that kind of became a thing with, I guess, Mike Trout with the angels, what, 12 years ago now, at this point in time, and now that’s kind of become the norm. That’s why Adley rodsman was hitting second for the Orioles. You always wanted
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:44
your fastest guy batting first, too. That was kind of the fastest guy that got on. I mean, we’re going back to baseball 1972 and my dad taught it to me, and I had to answer to me as to why who batted where. I’m not sure I really understand it anymore. When I see lineups, it doesn’t make the same sense. Said the first 50 years did to me,
Luke Jones 10:01
I think what you said still applies, except in the past, I think a fast guy was considered the top priority for the leadoff even if he had 220 right, even if he had an on base percentage of 290 and I think in this day and age, you’d prefer to have a fast guy look. I mean, Cedric Mullins, at one point in time, was the Orioles leadoff guy because he got on base and was a much better hitter. Much better hitter than what he’s been, but can’t justify that anymore. So that’s why he hits at the bottom of the lineup, or bottom third of the line up. And they were using gunner, and that was, remember last year they were using rutschman in the leadoff spot because of, hey, he’s your on base guy. But that was something that I know he didn’t love because, especially, even just coming back from catching and having to take off your whole
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:45
8point, Adley rushman would have never a bad lead off in any lineup that, yeah, Hodges or Earl Weaver, Casey single or Joe Torrey would have ever filled out. Sure,
Luke Jones 10:53
sure. But, but really. And I just, you know, I pulled back the curtain on a couple little things there, and yes, there are a couple spots here and there where you you kind of want guys in certain pockets of the lineup. I think Jordan Westberg was hitting seventh a whole lot for the Orioles this year. Was kind of almost like he was the prime run producer the bottom half of the order, so to speak. Well, you always wanted
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:15
lefty, righty, lefty, righty because of pitching, yeah. And that’s changed a lot too, because you can’t have one batters anymore. Well,
Luke Jones 11:21
well, there’s that. And also the Orioles are just so left handed, heavy and maybe not quite as much now, but they generally that’s what they’ve been over the last few years. I mean, their best hitters have been left handed or switch hitters, so but really Nestor. I mean, there’s one principle I think anyone should really subscribe to when it comes to batting order, you want your best hitters at the top of the order. Why? Because over the course of 162 games, that can equal 70 more plate appearances than they might have gotten if they’re hitting fourth, fifth, sixth every other
8Nestor J. Aparicio 11:52
night, they’re going to get a fifth or sixth at bat when the other rest of the lineup gets a third or fourth, right? So, so
Luke Jones 11:57
it’s really a big picture kind of thing. So I’m not someone who puts a whole lot of stock into batting order, but when you are scuffling, sometimes it’s just as simple as, hey, change up the look. And I think Colton cows are being someone who can draw some walks. Yes, he’s a swing and miss guy, but we’ve seen swing and miss guys in the leadoff spot before as well, but that’s been, I think that’s been a welcome change for him, and it’s allowed them to move gunner Henderson down to the number three spot. And we’ve seen gunner Henderson start swinging the bat. Not that he was awful, not was not that he was having a slump like Adley rutschman has had over the last five weeks, but we’re starting to see the power start to come again, which is obviously a great sign for this Orioles. He’s gonna hit 40, huh? You would think so. I mean, he’s what, 29 now. I mean, is he going to go on a tear like he did a couple months ago? I don’t know about that, but he’s going to hit home runs, and he’s, he’s got a heck of a shot to finish with 40, and you’ve got Santander. I mean, you might have 240 home run hitters in this lineup, which is even in this day and age, pretty impressive. So, you know, I think it’s it’s been much more encouraging seeing this offense start to swing the bats better. Is it perfect? No, are you still waiting on Kobe Mayo to get his first hit and for him to get his feet wet and kind of get acclimated, sure, and I think that’s to be expected. But if you have seven or eight other guys in the lineup that are swinging the bats better and swinging the bats, well, then you can, you can handle that, because, as it stands right now, I’d rather have Kobe Mayo’s upside in there, and, you know, kind of feeling it out and figuring it out over Ramon arias. Because, okay, maybe Mayo is not going to swing the bat at a high level in the month of August, but that could pay dividends for September and maybe October. We
Nestor J. Aparicio 13:43
better learn to hit the curveball. You better. You better the outside part. I mean, they’re not, they’re not going to groove and they’re going to make them chase pitches. And then when you have umpiring, like you did over the weekend, where the strike zones got an extra eight inches on the outside. Um, yeah, yeah,
Luke Jones 13:59
8there was, man, I definitely had some memories of Eric, Greg and the 97 NLCS with a few of those calls. But, well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 14:07
I’m going to coin this when we play them in seven games in October, after we take care of the first round and we’re in the ALCS against them, I’m going to coin it to Cleveland strike zone. We’re going to call it a Cleveland strike zone. Yeah, yeah. And
Luke Jones 14:19
look, I mean, there are. Certainly, there’s something to be said about pitch framing and different things of that nature. Sometimes just luck, you know, sometimes some teams. There are even statistics kept now Nestor, and I’m not sure how much stock I always put into them, but there are statistics that will even try to break down how teams have benefited from calls from umpires, you know, and not just ball strikes, but just kind of in a general sense. And it does feel like Cleveland, you know, I feel like I’ve seen Cleveland very high, if not at the top of that list. They’ve been, you know, higher on that list, but they’re a really good team. I mean that that Cleveland team is legit. And we talked about this a few weeks back when they came into Baltimore, and that lineup, it’s not. Not a lineup that wows you with 30 home run guys from top to bottom, but it’s a good lineup.
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:07
Ramirez, a great player. Oh, he’s a munch that last week, like seeing him at the All Star game and seeing where his career has come. Um, you know he’s, he’s, he’s a guy you take,
8Luke Jones 15:16
yeah, and Steven Quan, I mean, what’s been so interesting about him this year. I mean, he was a high contact, few strikeouts, but also hadn’t walked much this year. You know, he’s added a little bit more walk Pro. I mean, he walked twice on Sunday, for example, but he’s got an on base percentage of 392, now he’s hitting 333, so it’s primarily been the batted ball that that has that on base percentage where it is, but, but he’s gotten a little more on base ability, and he’s hitting for more power. I mean, he’s slugging like 480 so you have two players like that. They made some nice additions. You know, nailer certainly has a big power profile, and they have a closer, yeah, well, not just a closer. I mean, they’ve even though it didn’t, if this wasn’t the best, best showing for that bullpen, and the Orioles actually did some damage against their relievers, but it’s an excellent bullpen. I mean, they’ve got four or five guys that, to me, you feel good about using in just about any spot, and that’s what I’ve been saying, and what I’ve been desiring to see for the Orioles, in terms of, you need that group of four or five that you can use just about any time. And yeah, there’s going to be certain roles or certain slots or points in the game where you kind of ideally pitch someone, but you also know that your closer can’t pitch every night. Your setup, your primary setup guy, can’t pitch every single night. So that’s where you need depth, and that’s where you need that. And even in October, even though you’ve got off days baked in, and that helps things. From a workload standpoint, you still want to have four or five guys that you feel really, really, really good about. And I think that’s another interesting factor for the Orioles right now. And we saw this Dominguez, even though it wasn’t a save situation, he pitches the ninth inning on Sunday, we saw yen your canoe pitch. You know, get the save on Saturday. I thought that was interesting. Kimbrell had pitched the night before. But there’s a case where, if you have arrested Cano and you just say, hey, go for it. You know, we feel good about the matchups in the ninth inning and do it. That’s why I’ve said, you know, really, since early in the season, Nestor Aparicio, it’s never been, Oh, you’ve got to get Kimbrough out of the closers role. For me, it’s been, you’ve got to have at least another guy or two that you can trust in the closers role, depending on the night, depending on how Kimbrel is pitching at the moment, all of those things you just you need to have more flexibility. I think the worst thing you can do with a bullpen is to try to be too rigid with your roles, because sometimes the eighth inning might be more important than the ninth inning. If the heart of the orders do up in the eighth inning, and it’s a one run game, and that might be the time where I use my best reliever, and then you know what, I’ll take my chances with my second best reliever in the ninth inning, because I know that in the eighth inning I’m facing, you know, whether you’re talking about Jose Ramirez or Soto and Aaron judge, or whatever team you’re talking
Nestor J. Aparicio 18:07
about. So in Batista’s case, you’d have him just pitch the eighth and the ninth. Well, sure, sure. Right? Ideally,
Luke Jones 18:11
I mean, you have someone like that. And you know, there are a couple teams around baseball who might have a guy like that, but for the most part, you’re not asking guys to go multiple innings. But you know, I think it’s going to be fascinating. And we talked about this last last week with the trade deadline. And, you know, adding Sir Anthony Dominguez to the picture, and adding adding Gregory Soto, although, you know, certainly his debut was very, very rocky, but you’ve got a couple other really lively arms that have been added to the mix. And now you’re trying to figure out exactly what is this pen going to look like down the stretch, and that’s also including the hope that Danny coulomb is going to be back in September, and knowing what he’s meant for them. But I feel like you have a number of options. But for me, it’s how exactly is that going to look, how exactly is Brandon Hyde going to settle in, in how he uses these guys, and it’s going to be fascinating. That’s why I said it’s it’s so odd because we’re into August, but in some ways, it feels like April again, just because you have all these new pieces and you’re trying to figure out exactly how it’s going to look. So, you know, good to see them finish the series on a high note and get a split, because I don’t think anyone was feeling very good about how things were going going into Saturday, and then you see the order that they used on Saturday. Yeah, I’ll still say this. I’m still not too keen on Austin Slater as a leadoff hitter, but hey, he got two knocks when he was leading off, so it worked for one night anyway. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:34
8no, no, give me the skipper when it works. Man, sure. And sometimes it’s just a matter of,
Luke Jones 19:39
hey, we’re struggling. Let’s get nuts. Let’s get crazy. We’re going to do something a little bit differently tonight, and that worked out for them. But, you know, it’s just, it’s a really interesting dynamic, because to your point, when you have a team that was on pace to win 100 plus games for the first three months of the season, and then they go through this kind of 10. Nail spin that they went through over the last month, and obviously they played better over the last 10 days or so. You know, it’s been better Thursday and Friday in Cleveland. Aside, it’s been better, but you just have so many new parts. And I was even hearing some of the MLB Network guys talking about this, I think it was said Friday evening. It might have been before the game, and they were just saying, you know, it’s very unusual to see a team that had as much success as the Orioles had had through the first three three and a half months, make as many changes as they did. And, you know, I it’s not even saying that it was wrong or they shouldn’t have done it or anything like that, but it’s just a lot of new lot of new moving pieces, new moving parts. And with that, even if it works out, even if come mid September, they’re looking as as formidable as they did back in April, May and the first half of June, it’s still going to take a little bit of time to let the dust settle and see what that looks like. And obviously Jackson, holiday, you’re hoping, is a big part of that, and he’s certainly looking much better. I mean, it’s night and day, what he looks like at the plate now compared to what he looked like in April. And in the case of Kobe mayo, with the unfortunate injury to westburg. I mean, it kind of forced their hand a little bit, but let Mayo play. Let him go out there, as long as it doesn’t this doesn’t morph into what holiday looked like, where he’s just striking out every at bat and so much swing and miss and looks clueless and all that. And I thought Mayo his first couple games. I thought the at bats looked better Sunday. Struck out, what three times. So you know, that was a rougher go at it. But just let him play and let him figure this out, let him get acclimated within reason, right? I mean, if he’s completely overwhelmed two weeks from now, then we’ll have a different conversation at that point. But I think you have some really interesting young players that you’ve added to the mix now and now, Aloy Jimenez, who, as I said to you, you know, if things work out. He might be there. Delmon young, right? He’s not gonna play every special relationship
Nestor J. Aparicio 22:04
he had with Hyde, right, like and you know, you could discuss him. But my next question for you was just an evaluation of Brandon Hyde, or whether we can listen. You’re around the team. I’m not. I’ve never spoken to Brandon Hyde. I sat in two of his press conferences in my life. I don’t even know what his job is anymore. In regard to filling the line up out I watched Moneyball. I read Moneyball. I don’t know whether Elias is making out the card or hide. There’s all of this secrecy around baseball and around people like you that even have credentials to figure out who who really is calling shots in organizations? I’m going to go traditional and say Brandon Hyde really manages the team, and when the game starts, Mike Elias has nothing to do with that, although, as a fan, 20 years into this, I don’t believe that. But that being said, I don’t do they speak every day about lineup, dude does hide. And how do we judge Brandon Hyde? Because I do think there’s a point now where I look across dugouts and I see who he’s managing against, and I start to think to myself, all right, who’s the genius here? I saw the PC with him and espada and their friendship, and the sisters in laws and and espada almost became the Orioles manager. He was sort of, had there been Vegas odds five, six years ago, he would have been one of those guys that was named. But the new generation of managers that came up this way, to have these wacky lineups, to have half of Norfolk up here, excuse me, Norfolk up here in the middle of the pennant race when you have no choice, you have no options. This is what you got. And then you’re dealing for Eloy Jimenez that he may have had a role in that. I’m sure he did to some degree. But um, boy, they the thing for me that I would say today, for all of our listeners and anybody, boy, they’re managing a lot of change in the middle of something that they want to be special. Playoffs start in seven weeks, you know, and I look at the lineup and I’m like, you said spring training, I didn’t get that vibe because, you know, Kobe Mayer’s not wearing number 87 or whatever, like he was down in Sarasota. But there is a point where I’m like, this would really be something if they go win the World Series in Jackson holiday and Kobe mayor or in the starting lineup and Austin Hayes is gone, and they’re doing it with guys that we we didn’t know their names eight weeks ago, or they weren’t a part of the operation, as we discussed it, the first 120 days of the season. Yeah. I
Luke Jones 24:38
mean, and I think, in fairness, I mean, I think everyone expected Jackson holiday to be back at some point. You know, whether it, whether it’s gonna be June, whether
8Nestor J. Aparicio 24:45
it’s gonna be July, I think I even said he’ll be in the starting lineup tonight. They have a playoff game. Yeah, they, they, they believe that, that they made us believe that. Yes, right,
Luke Jones 24:55
right. So I think, and obviously, when you trade Norby as part of the Trevor Rogers trade. To, obviously, that forced their hand a little bit to call him up a little bit more. But I think that was coming at some point anyway, right? I don’t think if they didn’t trade Conor Norby, I don’t think I’m not buying that he would have just been there starting second baseman the rest of the way, or until Jorge Mateo came back from the dislocated elbow, if he’s coming back before the year’s out. But I think with mayo, I think that was always a little more, not that I didn’t think he was going to be here, because I thought he was going to be up at some point, but I think his role would have been different. And obviously this was forced by the fact that they lost Jordan westburg. Jordan westburg, who has been their number two most consistent hitter, behind gunner, Gunner Henderson over the course of the year, in terms of just being the best, you know, and just counting on them and everything. I mean, you would have said rutschman Until the last week of June, but I mean, westburg, that kind of player is an all star for them. So you lose an all star caliber player. It doesn’t mean your season’s over, but sure, you are going to be looking at some other people to step up and to step in. And not that anyone’s expecting Kobe Mayo to put up Jordan Westberg numbers immediately, but I think everyone is aware of the power upside. You’re talking about a guy who’s been a top 15 prospect overall in baseball, pretty much, pretty much the consensus for him going into 2024, and now it’s a matter of, Okay, how’s it look at third base? And the long term question with him is, is it third base? Is it first base? Is he going to be a DH, so you know that that’s that’s part of what you’re figuring out. But you know, in terms of Jimenez, in terms of Austin Slater, I mean, these were, we’ve talked about it in terms of them wanting to have a little more oomph from the right hand side and to have a little more success against left handed starting pitching, which had really become an issue for them recently. So you add those guys, and let’s face it, they didn’t give up anything for those guys. I mean, these were cash considerations, minor league arm that was considered more filler than real prospect. And in the case of Jimenez, I mean, the White Sox are paying for most of it. And it’s really a, you know, I don’t, I don’t even know if I want to say high reward, but certainly, you know, it’s a low risk kind of Proposition, even if you get it’s a moderate reward out of it. So, you know, I think the thing that I would admire them on and this is hide and Elias, you know. And more specifically, Mike Elias is, you know, they say, I don’t want to say if it’s bold, because it’s not like you traded half your farm to bring in Major League talent. You know, that would have been really bold to go do something like that, where you where you traded a mayo, where you traded a Samuel bisayo for major leaguers to come in and in the midst of a pennant race. So we’re still talking about more. So role guys, you know, Eloy Jimenez, I don’t think is going to become their everyday DH, but become their DH against left handed starter, sure. You know, I don’t think Austin Slater is going to play a whole lot, but start against some lefties, sure if he produces. So you know, you’re, you’re talking about trying to add as much as they’ve added. That’s that’s a challenge to go back to what you said about Brandon i But the lineup and managing the bullpen, all that look, I think we have seen enough of modern baseball, and the curtains been pulled back enough, even if not with the Orioles, with other teams and other books written and going back to the A’s back in the early 2000s or talking about the Astros, or even, you know, the Pittsburgh Pirates a decade ago. There was a interesting book written about them in their front office at that point. But I think we know that it’s much more collaborative than it used to be, you know, I think there was a perception years back that you kind of had the general manager and the manager at the top of the pecking order, and they were kind of arm in arm, right? They were in lock step. General Manager made all the moves, all off the field, you know, to bring the guys into the organization, and the manager took care of everything on the field. And it’s not like that in the general manager did the grocery shopping, right? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I and
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:04
the manager cooks the meals, yeah, but, but even with that, I mean, it’s, I
Luke Jones 29:08
8think, you know, the perception has been that the field manager is much more middle management now, and the general manager is at the top of the food chain. And obviously, yeah, where the owner fits in there where the team,
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:21
when I see this batting order, and I see things, I’m like, is this Hyde’s decision, or is this Elias saying, Hey, I just got Slater. Put him in. Yeah, I’m thinking, if you got Slater, why didn’t you just keep Hayes? But that’s just me. Well, because
Luke Jones 29:33
you wanted Sir Anthony Dominguez. I mean, really, so and, and, let’s face it, I mean, Austin Hayes. Had he been better, sure,
Nestor J. Aparicio 29:41
but I didn’t think he wanted to be here anymore at one point, right when he wasn’t playing, and that was the vibe I got when he got to Philly. It was time for change for him, for the player who was sitting on the bench four days a week, five days a week, yeah, I
8Luke Jones 29:53
mean, and let me be clear, I don’t think I myself, and we talked about this a week and a half ago. Oh, I mean, with, you know, whether there was anything going on behind, behind the scenes, anything like that. I never got any whiff that mount, that Austin Hayes is a malcontent, or was miserable, or anything like that. But I think he wanted to play. And I think there was a case of, and Dave Dombrowski talked about this when they, when the Phillies acquired him, they had inquired about Austin Hayes the last couple of years, actually, you know, Dave Dombrowski flat out, said we tried to get this guy the last two years. And, you know, the price point didn’t add, didn’t align between the Orioles and us. Deal
Nestor J. Aparicio 30:32
them last year was an all star, right? Sure, sure, exactly more like giving him money and signing him last year, right? Right? Well, I
Luke Jones 30:38
mean, some people were talking about it. I was never thinking they were going to do that. Well, not just you like Austin Hayes. Like Austin Hayes. I didn’t like Austin Hayes enough to extend him, and I think, you know, that’s proven out, but I wasn’t. There are lots of people who felt that way. And you know, you can like players without wanting to marry them long term, right?
Nestor J. Aparicio 30:56
8There’s a C Anthony of Santander. He’ll be that guy, right? How? Well, I
Luke Jones 31:01
think there’s a more interesting conversation about him, but, you know, we’ll save that for at least closer to the end of the season. But I think with the lineup construction, with how you use your bullpen, I think for an analytically minded team like the Orioles, I would, I don’t know this for certain, but I would assume they look at the matchups, they look at how all their guys are faring. They’ll look at history against pitcher. I think the way that Brandon Hyde proceeds with his lineup construction, I think it really lends itself to the Orioles. And I don’t think this is Brandon Hyde doing this in isolation. Because I think if, if Michael Ayas and sigma Dell and the other upper level lieutenants in baseball operations disagreed, I think it would be shared with Brandon Hyde. So I think it’s collaborative, but they care a lot about righty lefty splits and getting the match up there. You know, they don’t necessarily care about what the short term righty lefty numbers look like. I think just in general, they want to have a platoon advantage in terms of right handers facing left handed pitchers and left handed bats facing right handed pitchers. I think they just, they think, in a big picture sense, that’s the best way to go. So I think what you end up seeing is there is most likely a lineup that is kind of suggested or spit out from a computer for a lot, lack of a, you know, lack of a more specific, sophisticated way of putting it, and I think they go from there. And I do think Brandon Hyde ultimately makes out the lineup, but I think that’s done with a lot of information that’s presented to him, if that makes sense, I think it’s not 100% collaborative. I think he has the final say on something like that. But I do think there is other people. There are other people involved in that. There are computer models and statistics and everything that goes into that. I
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:59
know with pitching, it’s an if this, then that, I know they need it two o’clock in the afternoon and say, All right, we’re in the sixth inning. We’re ahead, we’re behind. We go lefty, righty. This is what we’re going to match up. This guy’s tired, can’t pitch Kimbrel tonight. He’s this guy’s who’s available, who can we pick through? If this, then that, let’s, let’s, let’s, you know, let’s scrimmage it earlier in the day. He scrimmage it. He’s a manager the team. He scrimmaged it in hotel this morning in Toronto, right? Like, literally, but that’s, that’s how this works these days, right? Sure. I
Luke Jones 33:30
mean, there’s a lot of collaboration. I mean, they’re in, and frankly, there should be, you know? I
8Nestor J. Aparicio 33:35
mean, it’s,
Luke Jones 33:36
I don’t care if you’re a first year manager, I don’t care if you’ve been at it six years, like Brandon Hyde at this point, or if you’re someone who’s been doing it for 25 years, I mean, don’t, don’t shy away from information. You know, don’t shy away from more information and more statistics that can help you figure things out. And look, that doesn’t mean that that’s the end all be all, either. And sometimes there is some gut that has to go into it, and you do have to have a feel for it. And, you know, I’ve talked about this, I’m a Brandon Hyde guy, but there have been times where I’ve liked, I would have liked to have seen him leave the starting pitcher out there to try to get another out or two, or there have been times where I’d like to see him stick with a reliever for another batter or two, rather than going to the next guy and feeling like maybe you’re using a little bit too much of your bullpen, especially if it’s a four or five run game. But we could say this about any manager. I mean, you can second guess anything in it. That’s part of why we love baseball, right? It it’s a slow enough pace where you can kind of think about those things on the fly and say, okay, he’s got this guy up in the pen, right handers do up, but they also got this lefty on the bench that they could pinch hit for. Keep in mind that next two guys you got to think about, because it’s the three batter minimum. So you know, from that standpoint, no, Brandon Hyde’s not infallible. I mean, he’s certainly makes his share of decisions that I kind of look at and say, Hmm, that that’s not what I would have done. But to your point. And to the point I’m trying to make here without saying it definitively, because the Orioles are very secretive when it comes to these processes and proprietary information and what they view as okay, there’s the commercial, mainstream stats that are out there that anyone can get at baseball reference or ESPN or fan graphs or whatever, but we also have more information, and some of that’s just the narrative in terms of How’s Craig Kimbrell feeling, or, you know, does CNL Perez have a sore back or something like that? You know, I mean different things that that go on over the course of a season. But it is collaborative. There is a lot of scrimmaging. There is a lot of computer modeling that that kind of gives them an idea of, you know, what a lineup might look like, and then you go from there and you tweak that, I don’t think, not at all suggesting that the front office makes a lineup and Brandon Hyde has no autonomy whatsoever. No, that’s not how it works. And in the midst of the game, he’s making bullpen and pitching decisions right now. They might have scrimmaged that. They might have talked about that in their, you know, beginning of the series meetings, or meetings earlier in the day. But you get to that moment, it’s not as though Mike Elias is calling him on the bullpen phone and say, Hey, bring in Sir Anthony Dominguez, right here. No, it’s not. You
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:14
better hope they talked about that earlier, right? Exactly, exactly. So,
Luke Jones 36:17
8you know, I’m
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:18
pretty stratomatic, Luke, you’re too young for stratomatic baseball.
Luke Jones 36:22
I’m aware of it, but no, I never played it. I never played it. So the things you
Nestor J. Aparicio 36:27
kids missed out on by not being born too late, being born in 83 you know, totally so well. I made a lot of stratomatic lineups, is what I guess I’m after. And we all make lineups, but I’m not nuts to think that this last week or two has been a little screwy. And certainly we don’t talk about the lineup much, right? We didn’t talk about rutchman and Henderson when they went to the top of the lineup last year, right? Or to say how or why, or what happened to Al bumbury And you know what happened to Brady Anderson and but that being said, the lineup has been something that, at least from the fan base perspective, especially when anybody who’s not perceived as going to the Hall of Fame, anybody that’s not holiday Mayo rushman, you know, they can’t start westburg anymore, he’s going to the Hall of Fame. Now, nobody could have told me that a year and a half ago, he went from rich dower to to Scott Roland overnight, like literally, right? And but that being said, the lineup has been something that the Twitter types, um, by the way, I’m glad I’m not on Orioles Twitter, whatever that is, I’ve seen pictures of these people, and for the last 15 years, I’m like, I’m glad I’m not in that daily argument of rushmanship at third, not like on and on and on and on, but on The nights when there’s a lesser lineup, it is, it is perceived as heights just giving up tonight. And it’s, yeah, sort of absurd, like people that haven’t watched baseball, you have all these players. It’s not stratomatic. You don’t have the same lineup every night.
8Luke Jones 37:53
Yeah, and guys do need nights off and got and you do want to keep some of your bench players in the mix a little bit more, because at some point in time you might be calling on them the pinch hit. And if, by the way, if they’ve sat on the bench for the last six days and they haven’t moved and they’re collecting splinters, they’re probably not going to be good in that pinch hitting situation. So I hear some of it, and look, there are times where I’ll look at a lineup like, for example, would I have put Austin Slater in the leadoff spot on Saturday? No, and I understand starting up against the lefty, sure, but the idea of him in the leadoff spot, and I get what his career numbers look like against left handed pitching, but go, look at what his left handed splits are this year. You know, against lefties this year, it hasn’t really hit anybody. That’s why he was available for nothing, basically for cash. So, you know, but beyond that, I mean, I don’t make too much of it, and I do think the thing that, and we even talked about this a couple weeks ago, and obviously it’s changed now, because they’ve made some trades, obviously injuries. But the thing that I always see that would always kind of make me laugh, is people saying, I just want Hyde to play our best nine, to which I would reply, who exactly is that right now? And you know that would be at a time where I feel like people were saying that a few weeks ago, when Colton cowser was kind of scuffling, and people wanted to see Heston kerstad Rather than him in the lineup, and
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:16
some of these guys struggle, other than Henderson, right like almost everybody else in the lineup. We’ve including rutschman right now. We’ve looked at Mullins. We’ve complained about all of these guys westburg Before he went out. I mean, last year was sort of early on, and Mayo’s not hitting the ball now. Holiday was awful in April, like, like, we can go through all of these players, and Andrea
Luke Jones 39:38
had a stretch where he didn’t really at
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:42
8one point, right? Some of them are one dimensional. They only get right handers or left handers, right,
Luke Jones 39:46
right? And that’s the other factor, too. I mean, some of these guys are, are meant to be, guys that aren’t going to play every day, and they’re going to, you know, for example. I mean, I think we’re seeing more and more Cedric Mullins doesn’t play against left handed starters anymore, you know. I. I think you want, not that cows are great against left handed pitching, but I think it’s an opportunity to have him still get at bats against lefties and hold his own, and then he can play center field, and he plays center field at a high level as well, and then you get Austin Slater, or before that, it was Austin Hayes or or whoever, in the in the lineup. So, you know, I think a lot of this look, a lot of this is just baseball. And I think every market you have fans that are going to question fans and media are going to question the lineup, or wonder about the lineup and wonder about bullpen usage and whether you should have pulled your starting pitcher at this point. Should you have pulled them earlier? Should you left them in there for a little bit longer? So that’s that’s baseball. That’s the everyday grind of baseball. And when you just consider, think about how we react to the Ravens who play once a week, compared to the Orioles who play every day, and the number of decisions that any head coach or any manager or any pitching coach or offensive coordinator or whatever, the number of decisions that they make. The sheer volume of decisions in baseball is just so high that, yeah, it’s going to lead lend itself to some second guessing. Some of the second guessing, to me, is more legitimate than most of it, which I think most of it is just fans being emotional at that point in time. And that’s okay. Look, I mean, that’s fine. I don’t have any problem with that. But I think, you know, the Orioles are like any other team in that way, where, yeah, you’re going to question some some moves, and they’re going to be some times, like on Saturday, where they’re mocked, and that lineup ends up doing a nice job for them, or they’re going to be times where it’s a lineup that you like, and they go out there and they get three hits and they only manage two runs. So you know that a lot of that is just baseball, and there’s a lot of failure baked into this game. I mean, a lot of failure baked into the game. And I think more more often than not, we overrate the influence that a manager has, it doesn’t mean a manager doesn’t have influence. It doesn’t mean he’s not important. But you know, over the course of the last month, do I think Brandon Hyde was the biggest reason why the Orioles were struggling? No, far from it. I think the biggest reason why the Orioles were struggling is their players weren’t producing at a level that you’ve come to expect them to produce how they produce. So, you know, it feels like they’re getting back towards that and but now it’s a little more unique, because I think Hyde and Elias and, you know, the front office, and anyone that’s involved in game theory and strategy right now, they’re, they’re feeling it out right now. So you might see a couple different lineups here and there, and some things that look a little bit weird on paper, but I think, as I said, and again, spring training probably wasn’t the right description. But I think there is very much a sense of, you know, it has a little bit of an April May vibe to it, just because of so many new parts, and you’re trying to figure that out. You know, you’re trying to learn about your new players, whether you’re talking about your rookies coming up to the majors for the majors for the first time, or some of these veteran players that have now been dropped into a pennant race after languishing elsewhere. You know, we’re going to see how it all plays out. But good way for the Orioles to finish the weekend after what was a pretty ugly Thursday and Friday, and very frustrating Thursday and Friday in Cleveland
Nestor J. Aparicio 43:21
six division games ahead here, Toronto, Tampa this week, six more opportunities to complain about Brandon heights, managing, the pitching, the hitting, the defense, decision making, rookies making mistakes, umpires with poor strike zone evaluation. All that ahead on your your massive dial here this week. Luke can be found at Baltimore. Luke. He is out in OAKS, Mills all week. Ravens playing on Friday night against the Eagles. It must be August, because everybody’s offering tickets all over my my Facebook free tickets for everyone to go to the ballpark on Friday night watch fake football. Strangely enough, I might be at the nationals ballpark watching this. Teddy swims character on Friday night. He is Luke. We’re going to be down at fatigues on the 23rd of the month. That is our next Maryland crab cake tour. It’s all presented by the Marilyn lottery or Gold Rush seven stoppers. We’ll have these as well as Raven scratch offs come out this month. I’ll be talking to John Martin about that later on in the week, as well. Our friends at Jiffy Lube multi care powering you up. Power and Luke up as well. Uh, make sure you get your oil change and more, all your vital fluids taken care of from our friends at Jiffy Lube, MultiCare, and the most vital fluid, water, taken care of by our friends at Liberty, pure solutions, keeping the water in my cup clear, as well as the water in our shower and our drain, very, very safe with a safe well water at Liberty, pure I am Nestor. He’s Luke. We got plenty of baseball ahead. Orioles teetering on first place. They’re trying and the Ravens trying to get right here this week, we are wnst am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We’ll be in Ocean City of Mako next week, talking politics. But hang around. I won’t be sticking to Sports.
