There’s plenty to debate in this Baltimore Orioles’ offseason of promise and high expectations for change and improvement. Luke Jones and Nestor begin the new year by measuring the Orioles’ acquisition of veteran pitcher Charlie Morton and evaluating the real strategy of Mike Elias under new ownership led by David Rubenstein.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Baltimore Orioles’ acquisition of veteran pitcher Charlie Morton. Aparicio expressed concerns about the timing and presentation of the signing, noting it was announced on a Friday afternoon amidst the Ravens’ playoff season. Jones defended the signing, highlighting Morton’s consistent performance and the team’s strategy of acquiring reliable, cost-effective pitchers. They debated the team’s approach to roster building, emphasizing the importance of pitching depth and the potential impact of new signings like the Japanese pitcher and the 35-year-old pitcher. Aparicio stressed the need for excitement and transparency from the team.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles acquisition, Charlie Morton, pitching depth, offseason moves, player age, leadership role, statistical algorithm, free agent signings, pitching innings, team strategy, fan excitement, player injuries, pitching rotation, team philosophy, market position
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
8
Nestor Aparicio 00:00
Yeah, welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 Towson, Baltimore and Baltimore. Positive. I know it is tough on these snowy days, especially with the purple Festivus this week and all things ravens on everybody’s minds and playoffs and Super Bowl, Lamar Derek Henry and MVP and Steelers and all of that stuff. The baseball team exists, and I am wearing my curio orange Baltimore themed shirt from foreign daughter. It’s just south of Timonium road on York Road, and I’ll bring Wendy and Rebecca on here. We’ll talk about that. But you know when I’m getting W, N, S, T texts, Luke, brought to you by Cole roofing, of course, and Gordian energy. I’m, I don’t know I’m this week. I’m all day flowered up, right? We all are. But when I get it, I’m like, what happened now? Like Sunday night, people were asking, Hey, if the Ravens announced the schedule, when are you going to get it? Well, the minute it happens, 835, boom, you’re going to get it. We send it out to everybody. It was off for a month or two. Now it’s back on. And everywhere I go, people like I’m getting the text again. It’s great. So if anybody wants to join, it is 410-821-9678, that’s old school, w n s t. Just text w n s t or join you enter. It’s easy. I don’t have the website. Remind me, Luke, I got to get the little web thing or the little QR code, and say, just zap here, and you’re on the wnst tech service we’re working on. All that is 2025 look, it’s 2025 Peter Angelo is gone, right? I mean, I don’t want to be morbid or anything, but we don’t have to talk about him anymore, right? Sure. Okay, Sam, I went through what we’d have this thing called Digital jukebox that runs the radio station, and it has all the library. I went through anything with the word Angelos in it, like Peter principles, don’t need to run that anymore. Uh, Angelo’s interview at the barn. Nah. I mean, I need to put that on the radio anymore, right? Like it’s up on the web 10s of 1000s, but like it’s over. So I’m thinking, cool, we’re on to the next thing here. And I don’t know, dude, like, you love the team, you love baseball. You want prosperity for them. You’ve invested your life and your livelihood, much like I have, even though it’s not seen or viewed in the same way I have, and I did, and I am, that we want good things for them. It’s the first thing I said to Chris Yuman that the the Angelo’s family never understood that I really wanted good things for them. They never believed that. I don’t know why. It’s just the way they were, this new group. I want good things for them. I want the community to come back. I want to come back. I’ve been holding my credit card out. Katie Griggs, if you’re hearing Hear me out. I’ll offer you the same thing offer. Chris Yuman, which is, we don’t have to talk about it on the air, on social media, like, I’m like, it’s 2025 and they’ve the text I get from you on a Friday news dump like, again, all their big announcements, moving fences in, picture signing happened five o’clock on Friday afternoon, like Greg baders running the joint. Like, I’m not getting all of this, and I know we’re going to do football, football and more football. And Lamar and Derrick, Henry, and I’m going to write Purple Rain three in my mind. But the baseball team matters so much in this time of the year, matters so much. And it runs not amongst baseball fans, amongst Orioles fans. It runs a little hot when it happens or doesn’t happen in the case of Charlie Morton, but it is easy to just not worry so much about this one. Lamar is playing for the season this weekend, right? Yeah, well, I
Luke Jones 03:48
mean, of course. I mean, they’re not playing. They’re not even showing up in Sarasota for six more weeks, or five and a half more weeks. There’s still time left in the off season. But, yeah, and it’s funny, because I was even talking about this with a couple other members of the local media just before Saturday’s ravens Browns game, you know, as I was in the press box and kind of just waiting for a game that wasn’t going to be very competitive, wasn’t really reflecting on the prospects of the Browns upsetting the ravens, and knew That wouldn’t happen, but we were talking about this, and this, this has been and we’ll get to the totality of the off season and expectations and all that. But it’s been such a strange off season in the sense that every move they’ve made in a vacuum, if you just look at it individually, move by move, I can’t sit here and say I’ve hated what they’ve done looking at each move in ice isolation, but when I look at it in its totality, I go back to what the headline was of what I wrote at Baltimore positive.com early Saturday morning in the wake of the Charlie Morton signing. It’s where. Is the upside coming from and more specifically, talking about that with the starting rotation, I think, first of all, Charlie Morton, from everything I’ve heard, it’s a great guy. I think he’s going to be cut from a cloth very similarly, similar to Kyle Gibson before that. Jordan Lyles, Corbin burns also. But burns brought the, you know, the high end production, right? The high end performance.
Nestor Aparicio 05:24
So what matters? You took the ball every fifth you an outstanding it’s what matters most.
Luke Jones 05:28
8But the other things matter too. You know, anyone will tell you Kyle Gibson mattered to the to the team that 101 games two years ago. You know, let no one
Nestor Aparicio 05:35
would respect that more than a guy who was cut his teeth on Rick suckliff in 92 Sure, sure. So. So so I
Luke Jones 05:40
don’t want to say it doesn’t matter, but because it does, but, but to your point, yeah, ultimately, you need guys who can play and play at a high level, but, but it’s funny, I was going to open with this in the sense that if you’ve been blessed enough to work in sports media, and specifically, if you’ve been blessed enough to work in Sports Media at a relatively young age, when you start out, it’s so funny how you don’t necessarily feel like you’ve changed that much. But as time goes on, the veterans in that clubhouse, you don’t view as veterans as much, because, well, you know the guys in the clubhouse. You know, move on, but, but the collective age, the average age of players, stays the same. You know, you’re still around, but suddenly you’re looking and it’s a bunch of guys that are way younger than you.
Nestor Aparicio 06:33
McCann would be a great example. Yeah, leadership guy. How old is McCann? 3435
8Luke Jones 06:39
I off the top of my head, I can’t remember, but younger than you as an example, but that’s the point I was trying to make. You get to a certain point in time where you realize, oh, none of the players are as old as me anymore, or let alone any players that are older than me. And that’s why, when Charlie Morton, you know, the signings announced, and you look at his baseball reference page, and you look at it, you say, Wow, this guy’s only a month older than or month younger than I am. It does, you know, you know, it does stand out. Look, I will say this much, and I will push, by
Nestor Aparicio 07:14
the way, while you’re on that, I’ll just laugh about it a little bit, because I was the kid who was the nerd about dates, on birthdays, on bags of baseball cards, and on rosters when I did the agate page at the paper and all that Leonard Raskin last week and I did a little on air exercise about Ovechkin and how many of the players on his current team weren’t born when he debuted. Close, really close, like there’s two or three guys that were born within 18 months of him debuting, which is crazy, and their teammates now. So, yeah, you know, when you Joe Flacco would be a great example of saying that in Indianapolis, he’s got some guys on his team were born in the mid 80s. Like he was, yeah,
Luke Jones 07:56
yeah, well, and I was, you know, just about to say when Charlie Morton made his major league debut, I think it was a couple weeks before gunner Henderson turned seven, right? I mean, that’s what we’re talking about here. So look, I want to be very clear, and I started off talking about his age, so I’m kind of, you know, not trying to sound contradictory here. I do think the low hanging fruit part of if you’re going to criticize this move for, for what it is, and all that. And look, there’s plenty to critique here. But I do think if we’re just going to say, Oh, well, he’s 41 he can’t be, can’t be good. Charlie Morton was still a pretty solid pitcher last year, right? Still average a strikeout parenting, you know, had an era in the low fours. Now is that Corbin burns replacement, of course, not right, and that that’s part of the problem. When you look at what they’ve done in its totality, you know, the the off season in its totality, in terms of looking, has there been enough upside? Upside, absolutely not right.
Nestor Aparicio 08:53
8The nerdy of me thinks that they have some statistical algorithm to talk about innings in value, and that what they’re going to get, dollar per dollar against some sort of metric, is, let’s just buy one year pitching. That’s the best thing we can do to not get killed, but to at least give ourselves a good chance for the new pitching is all one year, right? Like, let’s evaluate it, that maybe that’s what they’re doing. And, yeah, that’s going to be their secret sauce, so
Luke Jones 09:25
and, and I think when you look at it now, starting with Jordan Lyles, which was, I think, a one year, seven or $8 million deal, Kyle Gibson, the following off season, which was one year, what was it 12 i i had the numbers in front of me, and then I closed out, it starts to become philosophical. But the point is, it’s very clear that they have had a type, right? And when it was John Angelos and the Angeles family still owning the team, then you just said, Oh, they’re being cheap. I do want to point out and look,
09:56
certainly not Steve Cohen numbers. I you know, just. State the obvious, they’ve committed $86 million this year to free agents, which a couple years ago probably would have made John Angelo flush. So it’s not as though they’re not spending any money at all, but they’re not spent.
Luke Jones 10:12
They’re not not making anything beyond a one year commitment, even a three year deal to Tyler O’Neill has a one year opt out, right? It has an opt out for Tyler O’Neill, where he can hit the market,
8Nestor Aparicio 10:21
next market from Santander as well. It was sold as we signed the free agent. It’s, hey, we saved a little bit of money, maybe got a little younger, or change the right hand at bat, moving the fence in. Like, you know that these guys, I look, I don’t think they’re this isn’t bucking and Dan Duquette feeling things and giving their baseball willies. And this isn’t Sid thrift being incompetent. This isn’t Mike Flanagan and Jim Beatty, maybe knowing what they’re doing, and maybe not, because they hadn’t done anything like that before. Like this is they have a philosophy and they have a strategy, right? And where that meshes with this billionaire that comes in. It says, Just keep doing whatever you were doing. Okay? I mean, I don’t know that they can do that on the business side, and I went hours with John maroon and Marty Conway, and I’ll talk about that. But part of the business side is signing free agents that are 41 years old, and put it out of five o’clock on Friday. And it becomes a punch line whether dude, he might win the Cy Young next year, he might be there starting pitcher in game seven of the World Series A year from now, and it’ll all smell good and be fumigated and be great. And I know he’s a great guy. I know all of that, and I’ll make a leadership case and all of that, but you didn’t get anybody excited. You didn’t You didn’t stimulate what you really need to stimulate on a weekend when the ravens are playing the browns or 20 point favorite, Lamar, Lamar, Lamar King Henry, our ball Steelers, all, you know, all this stuff going on, like clap a little bit, makes it do something. And even if you’re excited about it, hold it off till Monday in the snowstorm, and bring him in and and let him sit there in front of everybody like Sutcliffe did, and say, I’m here to help these young guys win a championship. That’s why I’m here. And you need to buy in, like, Come on, man, come on. I mean, I’m not trying to be Vince McMahon in your world. You’re the Vince McMahon guy. But, I mean, if you’re, if they’re excited about it, get me excited about it, because I think you and I see this as reasonable, but I don’t think in anything they’ve done here in totality, who gets anybody excited? And I want to be excited. I really do. I don’t sports for the 30th year in a row. I want to be excited. No,
Luke Jones 12:42
I hear you. I mean, Mike Elias isn’t worried about press conferences. I mean, I understand that, but that’s part of the but that’s part of the you know what you’re what you’re presenting. I understand where you’re coming from, and I’m not even saying I disagree. But at the same time, I also don’t want them to make more out of something than what it actually is, and that’s part of the problem here, right?
Nestor Aparicio 13:07
Make more out of every move, but I don’t want
13:09
8you to lie to me either, right? I mean, Charlie Morton’s not going to win the Cy Young Award, and even if you love the signing, he’s not going to win the Cy Young Award. I mean, it’s just that that’s not who Charlie Morton at his best was, you know, an all star, right? Hey, he pitched the final four innings of game seven of a World Series and got the win right? I mean, this is a guy who has experience. This is a guy who absolutely can help them. This is a guy who the signing in isolation. Even with him being 41 years old, there’s merit to it. How many stars is he going to make? But it’s not the but it’s not the ice. It’s not the the upside move, it’s not the Corbin burns replacement, right? And that’s where it’s tough. Look. History would tell you he’s going to make 30, but at some point in time, he’s, you know, he’s 41 years old. That’s going to stop at some point in time, but taking away the COVID year, which was 60 games, you go back to 2018
Luke Jones 14:07
30 starts, 167 innings, 2019 33 starts, 194 and two thirds, 2021 back to 162 game schedule, 33 starts, 185 and two thirds, 2022 31 starts, 172 innings. And then the last two years, 30 starts. 30 starts, 163 and a third, 165 and a third. So
Nestor Aparicio 14:27
if you get 150 out of him, that that wouldn’t be 27 starts, 150 innings out of him, that wouldn’t be easy. We always talk in terms of, who’s my three, who’s my four, five, and I think that’s par Lance. It to some degree. It’s almost getting as wacky as the win loss record and like all that stuff, right? In saying, I don’t think these nerds think about it that way. I think they think about in totality of innings, and what I’m going to expect and where I can get those innings, and if I, if I, if I love that. Guy up. I can keep him healthy, keep him on turn and every fifth or sixth day, give him the ball. Four innings, five innings, almost never six innings. But he’s going to get me to a point where the day before, we had Rodriguez, the day after, we don’t have burns anymore, like I think about that we’ve been at this with burns that he would come back and rescue you every fifth day from whatever awfulness and injury and tendonitis and flare ups and, you know, something stiff and whatever, or you’re bringing up some kid from Norfolk, and isn’t, you know, can it give you Charlie Morton innings right now, they signed the picture for like, $17 million and don’t have a press cut, to my point, you know, like, he is a big lead pitcher. He does have all of these accolades. He is a grown up. He’s something they should be proud of, right? I mean, I think right. I mean, if they’re giving them this money, and they can continue to story tell, if they told stories, if they had somebody, you know what they were doing around there, that they could story tell their way through. We’re building. We’re not done. Mike Elias, stand up, hey, we’re not done. I’m not done. Well, hang on. Time out. Just like get people excited about this a little bit instead of what time is the football game and How cold is it going to be and what’s the weather on Saturday? And
Luke Jones 16:26
no one’s stopping any of their attention on the Ravens for a Charlie Morton press conference.
8Nestor Aparicio 16:29
I understand that. I hear you. I just did the floor way more into that part of it than I am. Well, I’m not either, because sit here and talk about it on a Monday in the snow and say, Well, I don’t hate it. Neither one of us hates it. But it was a punchline on social media Friday, of course, of course, it was, Well, anytime you’re going to sign a 41 year old picture, it’s going to be, look
Luke Jones 16:56
this. This kind of goes back to what I talked talked to you about in terms of Corbin burns, or going back to Kyle Bradish, the injury with him early last year. And you touched on this, we’re so inclined to think about these things in traditional ways, in terms of number one, number here’s your number two, five stars. And we do the same thing in the NFL with number one, wide receiver, number two, number three. Well, there’s the X, there’s a Y, there’s a Z, you know, there’s a guy’s gonna be in the slot. Guy wins on the outside, guy that Marlon
Nestor Aparicio 17:27
Humphrey is a great example of, like, a Hall of Fame, which was in opposition 30 years ago. Oh,
Luke Jones 17:32
8Marlon Humphrey can play on the outside. He’s, he’s, you know, more of a stud as a slot corner, right? I mean, Kyle Hamilton is a great example of this. Right now. We’ve, we’ve seen Kyle Hamilton be transcendent, moving all over the field, yet the Ravens had a very distinct need. Mid Season, they moved him to more of a traditional deep safety role. Do I think that’s going to be his role the rest of his career? No, I don’t. I think, I think Kyle Hamilton doing what he’s doing right now is much more Marshall yonda needing to kick out the right tackle because the right tackle got hurt, and they have no one else right Marcus Williams, they deemed unplayable, you know, regardless of how much money he was making. And they and they did that. So, so, you know, there’s always a little bit of, you know, from an outside perspective, we make too much of like these well defined roles that said, that said, and talking about even replacing burns in the aggregate, or we, or think back to Moneyball. And, you know, if you didn’t read the great book, you watch the movie, right? And Brad Pitt’s sitting there saying, Oh, we got to replace Jason Giambi. Well, you know, we’re not going to go out and sign a player to replace him. We’re going to, you know, we’re going to think about this in terms of Scott hattieberg, Jeremy Giambi and David justice, and then those guys all have a certain on base percentage that’s going to add up. You know, again, you get my point. But I think what you just made mention of, and this is where the messaging part gets tricky, because everything you’re saying, even though you might be more into that part of it than I am. I’m not denying its importance to the big picture, but
Nestor Aparicio 19:05
it’s what’s killed the franchise and has made it a small market for what’s killed it is that they just stunk. It hasn’t, you know, the messaging part has been a problem on top of it, but they’ve stunk for most of the last 35 years. That’s been the biggest problem. Well, even if you love the team, you can’t trust them. They’ve never had your best interest on winning it hard or trying the hardest, or they I mean, it’s been a long time since that’s been I understand the formula has been, we’re going to be cheap, we’re going to get lucky, we’re going to be bad, we’re going to be so much smarter. And, you know, this is where lock and forward gets. We’re so much smarter than everybody else, smart everybody. And we’re gonna have Tampa, Tampa and like all of that. Whoa. You know, you wanted to be the Cardinals, right? You know what I mean? Like, somewhere in
19:48
you have to, I want them to be smart and have resources, right? I don’t want them to spend foolishly. Peter Angelo spent a lot of dumb money over the years. I’m sure that’s owner already. I don’t, I’m not looking to do that. I’m really no no, and I know you’re not. I’m, but I think I’m looking for them to make a connection. I understand I’m but I’m trying to keep this in the here and now. I believe me, I I live the same history you did, like I saw I saw it, right? I understand everything, everything you’re coming from, in terms of looking at this. But for me, that’s the biggest, the biggest question right now is not that I dislike signing Charlie Morton because I think it in isolation. Fine. You know, if you value another Kyle Gibson kind of a guy to fill out your number three or number four starter spot. Hey, last year should have taught every Orioles fan how important pitching depth is when you look at the number of injuries they had, and look you’re not going to be able to even if you had endless payroll. Look at the state of the Dodgers rotation at the end of last year, and now they still found a way to win a World Series because they had the lineup that they did. And hey, that might that’s going to be a big part of how the Orioles win. Right? It’s going to continue to be their young position talent continuing to get better, right? I mean, that’s that was always going to be a big part of this. That’s why they faltered so much. It wasn’t that they didn’t have enough Corbin behind Corbin burns. It was way more their offense faltered the way it did. So when you look at this thing,
Luke Jones 21:19
signing the Japanese pitcher, fine. You know, they see something that they like in a 35 year old on a $13 million contract. And you
8Nestor Aparicio 21:28
and by the way, I gave last week, my whole week, made an hour long case that, if he’s Suarez, and I went through Suarez numbers, which look like a fifth starter, looks like 18 starts, 24 appear, you know, like, like, all of that kind of thing that that’s what that guy is. We’re okay with that, because I’m always trying to replace last year with this year, especially when you’re good, when you win 95 games or whatever, you know, whatever the number one they win, 9090, 9191 91 whatever, 90 enough, not, you know, I mean, it doesn’t even matter in the playoffs, yeah. But to me, every fifth day or six day when there’s no rest and you’re playing double headers and all the crap that’s going to happen July and August, after it rains in April and May. I I want to know deep depth, eight pitchers, nine pitchers, because you’re going to have to go that deep. Now you don’t have a burns on the front, and you thought he’s a stud. You feel like at some point, Rodriguez is either tricky or going to figure it out and get you 200 innings like and be fully healthy and fully operational and take the ball,
Luke Jones 22:28
take 160 at this point, you know, to 200 I mean, just stay healthy, right?
Nestor Aparicio 22:33
But, but from a money standpoint, and I don’t mean this to even be money bags, Rubenstein or chief skate Angelo or even trick on the radio Aparicio, right? Because, I mean, I do study this stuff, because I know Eric, the cost is studying it from baseball, from Moneyball. It’s how they figured out everything that they’re doing there with the ravens, quite frankly, is this animal, this analytic dive on value, draft. Value is capital. Everything’s capital, right? Like, you know, and then how we it’s like a game of Monopoly, how I use my resources, the baseball side of their money, and whatever their money is, whatever the mystery of Mr. Money Bags saying, I’m going to be 125 this year, 145 next year, 185 the following year, because that’s the year we’re going to onboard, you know, get westburg Signed, or whatever it’s going to be, whatever their algorithm is, they’ve said to me with this Japanese pitcher and a 35 year old who’s never pitched it’s never thrown the ball in the big leagues, which is crazy, correct? A 41 year old who’s thrown a lot of balls in the big leagues, and whatever their profile and their stature and best case scenario, their ceiling. And it’s not glass, it’s rubber, pulverized rubber, concrete, something like that. Mississippi Valley, river, mud. A 35 year old pitcher that’s never thrown a pitch, a 41 year old pitcher that we profile is whatever that is right. We’ve gone through this four innings, four and a third. Hope he’s not a meatball guy. Hope it’s not Craig Kimbrel, which is this friggin sure PTSD everybody here has about that, and Marcus Williams and Earl Thomas, and goes through any Bruce Davis, you know, whatever the can’t perform when it’s a one year deal. How pissed can you be about Kimbrel? Pretty pissed in June, when he can’t figure it out. Really pissed in August, when everything else is falling apart, and then into October, when you can’t even put him on your roster. You have to retire him, right? Charlie Moore, 41 the other guy’s 35 and I’ll give him all the benefit of every doubt that, yeah, a hopeful guy wearing orange in January, still banned as a media guy and mistreated, but with holding a credit card out because I live your rules. Um, I would just say, like it is a little laughable. I mean, I could be the prick on the radio beating this up and take the Jason locket for JLC role of being Stephen A Smith and being a jerk. I mean, I’m not. About that. It says to me that the value that they’re putting on these starts is looking like $700,000 and, you know, I don’t know they’re putting a lot of money on the 25 starts. Charlie Morton’s gonna get look. They making love to him. They marrying him on the beach in Jamaica, right? Or Sarasota. Sorry, got Heather Sarasota? Where they go like, this is a rental, and it’s a rental of a good dude who on a team that’s going to hit the ball, they’re moving the fences in to hit the ball more signed ground ball pitchers take a chance on the Japanese kid. Nobody else wanted at that price. Overpay, overpay, overpay for a short profile. I’m going like a business guy. Need it now. We’re in a little bit of duress. We need to get the parts right now. Let’s get it overnighted. Let’s get it overnighted, something reliable. 4135 Okay, now let’s hope the young kids figure it out. But to your point, this isn’t core, but this isn’t what they did last year, which is saying we’re going to have Cy Young guys at the top of our rotation, and we’re going to go three deep into six inning, seven inning territory. We’re chasing cease. We’re chasing screwball. We, you know, we, we, we got birds like, look, we’re serious. I don’t know. I don’t know where that’s I don’t think that’s in their hat right now that I know of, but they have such deep depth in their organization that I know is unavailable, right, right? I mean, yeah. I mean, after the year the Tigers had, I mean, I’d be shocked, right? Yeah. I mean, so like the things that were available. Then I remember that period of time where they were chasing the sale for sale, early on that maybe Red Sox would end up buying that, renting it, cutting the jerseys. So.
