Longtime NFL insider Mike Silver returns to tell Nestor the roots of his new book, “The Why Is Everything,” exploring the history of the Shanahan family football tree, with roots in the franchise of Dan Snyder in Washington more than a decade ago. Silver praises the talent of Lamar Jackson and still wonders how the Ravens ever let him test the free agent market last spring.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Lamar Jackson, Derrick Henry, Shanahan tree, NFL coaching, Ravens offense, Washington rivalry, Mike Silver, book promotion, Kurt Warner, Raven scratch offs, birthday celebration, football strategy, journalism career, San Francisco Chronicle, NFL Network
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Mike Silver
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
8
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, tassel, Baltimore and 1570 we are out doing the Baltimore positive thing. And big week here. We thought we’d be playing some baseball this week. I thought I’d be buying Luke’s and Peter Luger’s up in New York and taking them for some legit Korean barbecue. Instead, we’re sitting here eating Essex pizza. It’s our birthday week. Luke’s birthday last week, my birthday next week, we will be giving away the Raven scratch, also in the Maryland lottery in Essex. Yes, not Dundalk Essex at Pizza John’s will be there on Friday afternoon, celebrating a lot of birthdays, a lot of fun, as well as the history of Washington versus Baltimore this week. I’ve been waiting to have this guy on for a while. He kept saying, Yeah, we’re dudes and all, but I got a book. I’m gonna get my book. We’ll come out. And I’m like, why don’t we play the 40 Niners? Oh, we don’t. So at some point, Mike silver was going to return to me, return home to the east coast here, or home, as we say here, because I know you’re a Van Pelt guy. We welcome Mike silver back. Author, Sports Illustrated when it was really illustrated as well as well written, not AI, as well as NFL Network and now authoring, how are you? I miss you. I miss concerts with you. I miss laughs with you, and just in general, who you are. Mike silver,
Mike Silver 01:19
bro, I don’t think I’m caffeinated enough, and the three hours are not helping me here, but you are, man, you are on one and I’m just here trying to process another day of football. Yes, I have a book out. It’s right here. It’s called The why is everything? It’s about the Shanahan McVeigh coaching crew and all their offshoots and all the petty rivalries. It’s killer. Everyone should read it and, yeah, just doing, doing the journalism thing. But
Nestor Aparicio 01:48
while we get into that, let’s talk about Lamar and Jane Daniels this week, because I had John Eisenberg on earlier, dude, I’m seven hours into doing radio. This is, this is what I look like when I’m unrested, and been up all night as well. So you should see me when I’m Spry, but three and two and three wins in a row and a very unlikely victory for the Ravens on Sunday in Cincinnati, where they were down 10 points late. A lot of folks didn’t think Lamar could do that. A lot of folks thought Lamar couldn’t do a lot. Same thing with Jane Dios, but in this new coaching tree and the way people were seeing the game differently now than maybe the way Shannon’s father saw the game, or needed to see the game. Back in that era, we saw the Elway sort of Joe burrow, traditional quarterback thing, boy. There’s just a lot of cases to be made for different and new ways to do offense. Yeah,
Mike Silver 02:36
and you know, Lamar is a guy who, you know, I’ve never understood why people doubt him. I never understood how the Ravens were willing to let him technically be a free agent and expose him to possible signing elsewhere for two ones, or probably willing to listen to teams that would have said, Look, we’ll do a sign and trade and negotiate with you. And I know that’s a whole bigger issue, but you know, to me, he’s one of the most transcended players I’ve covered in my 30 plus years. He’s awesome. He has not won the big one, but he’s won a lot of big ones. And I would also say Derek Henry, you know, all the talk about running backs, they get older and you can get another one. First of all, you can’t get another one of him. He’s one of the best running backs ever, and he’s not aging in the way that they told us he would, because he’s still faster than anybody when he gets to the open field and still busting up breakaway runs to win games. So I would put Derrick Henry right now in the early MVP conversation with Lamar. I think he’s been that impactful.
8Nestor Aparicio 03:51
Um, did you see that coming? Because I and I’m patting myself on the back as Luke and I get together, we do this every day of the week, right? Like we talk football, baseball, we had the Orioles, but the Derrick Henry thing from the minute that it was clear that he was not long term in Tennessee, that he would play elsewhere, there was conversation, this time two years ago, about trading deadline, and the Ravens with the other one got roquan Smith. So if you could say, well, they get roquan Smith at the trading deadline, why can’t they get Derrick Henry? There was some thought about that, the JK Dobbins thing was he going to work out Keaton Mitchell last year and the GUS boss and all these other things I kept saying to Luke, nobody respects the running game. They respect Lamar. They’re not worried about the other running backs beating them. But more than that, this offense, when it’s really worked, Mike has been in second and one, second and two, because they fall forward for seven or eight yards back in 19 when they had Marshall yonda Last year, when they’re winning MVPs. It’s really about that first down being able to just grab distance every time you’re on first down by growth grading. And I don’t want to see Lamar running the ball 225 times a year. You know what I mean like and I it’s. Just been a crazy amount of runs for him, and I think that Derek Henry thing was just a hell of a prescription to try to win a Super Bowl year, especially when I look at them getting off the bus in January, if they’re all healthy, and that’s always knock on wood, I think they’re a different team in January with him. I
Mike Silver 05:16
mean, to me, it’s just simple, right? There are great players and there are transcendent players, and the more of those you have, the better your chances. So instead of people fixating on things like, well, you can go get another running back. They you know, they don’t deserve second contracts. They get old. Well, the 40 Niners went out and got Christian McCaffrey two years ago, and they had a rough start to the season. And because of his versatility, and because of what Kyle Shanahan is able to do with multi positional players, and certainly with him more than anyone, it changed everything. And they gave up a two or three, a four and a five, and it looks like a steal, though he is now hurt this year. You know, the Ravens getting roquan Smith. That’s not only a great player, that’s a classic Raven. And I would, I would say the same thing about Derrick Henry, right? So the bears had roquan Smith there. He wanted to get paid. They somehow decided we’re not going to pay our own a guy who is homegrown and represents everything we would want to represent about the standard of the franchise. He did everything we would want. He approaches it the right way. We’re going to take care of him and send that message. They let him go, and then went out and got a worse player at that position and paid him. And the Ravens smartly said, Oh, that’s not only a transcendent player, but a classic Raven, like perfect profile change the team. So yeah, when the Ravens could get, and I know some of these guys have been older, but like when the Ravens could get Anquan Boldin or Steve Smith when they were older, it had some wear and tear. Yes, do that. That’s a classic Raven. So Derrick Henry, to me, not only is one of the best players of his generation, and you can’t get another one of him, just like you can’t get another Christian. McCaffrey, yeah, go get him and bet on the fact that he might be an outlier. We’ll get
Nestor Aparicio 07:17
on the Jane Daniels and Baltimore and Washington and you’re so far removed. Think Cal Stanford to get your blood boiling a little bit. And think about, um, let’s just say,
Mike Silver 07:28
8the bad time to bring up Cal to me. Well, I’m saying, think
Nestor Aparicio 07:31
about Stanford chasing out of football for 12 years, and there is no Cal Golden Bears, and there was no, let’s say even Kyle bowler, even one of my
Mike Silver 07:40
dude. It’s not like that. I mean, I disagree with you. I think Baltimore, Washington has a cool thing going, and there’s a rivalry, but it’s actually, I think you’re overselling,
Nestor Aparicio 07:52
dude, we weren’t in the league for 13 years from the time I was 17 till I was like, it’s good.
8Mike Silver 07:56
You want to be like, do you think like, there are Cal fans who would rather go Owen or go, you know, be one and 11 but beat Stanford than go 11 and one but lose to Stanford. I’m pretty sure the Ravens fans aren’t like, man, if we could just beat Washington. The season is like. It’s not quite used
Nestor Aparicio 08:18
to be that way, but it’s only for old people. Nobody cares anymore. Now they really don’t like, we’re the DMV. You when you fly in, you fly into Baltimore, Washington, you think we’re one thing. So, I mean, I
Mike Silver 08:29
don’t think that, but I also don’t think it’s like, I think it’s cool though, that the the commanders have a guy that looks legit and you know this this quickly, and they’re four and one, and, you know, I think it could be really cool the next few years, if this guy’s as good as we think he is.
Nestor Aparicio 08:50
8Why let’s not write your book a little bit, because your book is about offense, obviously, the way the ravens are doing things, the way the league and the West Coast, and just all of those things. Give me the layout of the book because I want to promote the book for you, because I love your writing. Don’t tell anyone, but I’m a fan. I was a fan of your writing before I even knew you. And how you know, cool you are some of the time.
Mike Silver 09:14
Well, you have impeccable taste, so that’s good. You know, look so back in the early 90s, I was covering the 40 Niners as a young beat writer. Mike Shanahan shows up as the offensive coordinator from outside the walls tree, and he was in a battle guy. He’d been fired by Al Davis ingloriously as the Raiders head coach. Then he went to Denver, was fired by Dan Reeves and accused of insubordination. Basically, Dan Reeves was like man Mike Shanahan and John Elway are running their own stuff without me in the loop, which, which is a pretty strong charge, and he had to, kind of, you know, salvage his career. And then you had Steve Young, who was playing for the injured Joe Montana, who, for all his transcendent talent. Was also embattled in San Francisco because he wasn’t Joe. He ran too much. He didn’t read defenses that together, they fused and made incredible music together, culminating with that Super Bowl 29 six touchdown pass performance. And then Mike goes to Denver and takes outside zone and fuses it with the Walsh offense, and that becomes the Shannon offense. So that’s kind of the jumping off point. Then you go to Washington, very close to Baltimore, some would say the DMV. You go to Washington in the early 2010s like Shanahan is there. He’s got five coaches on his staff who are now NFL head coaches is sun Kyle, Sean McVay, Mike McDaniel, Raheem Morris and Matt Lafleur, and they, at one point in 2012 are presented with a problem. They’re going to have to play Robert Griffin, the third, who’s only run things out of the pistol formation and isn’t ready to, you know, adapt to their system on the fly. So they change their entire system and transport it to the pistol, which is harder than it sounds. We get into all that in the book, and because of the dysfunction in DC, it blows up. But then they all go off into the world and make their way, and along with their offshoots, they’re kind of taking over the league, and they are competing and in all their petty splendors. So there’s it is about scheme and offense and a different way of thinking, for sure, but I don’t want to, I don’t want readers to think it’s just some nerdy, analytical book. There’s lots of drama and pettiness and dirt and stuff where you’ll go, Whoa, he did what? Who doesn’t
Nestor Aparicio 11:50
like who for what? Because I look that whole DC thing, when you start talking about that era where the shades were pulled down, they wouldn’t even let you in the building back then, you know, I mean, like Snyder’s doing whatever he’s doing leaders. I mean, well, I’m just saying, like, you must admit that was a different show down there 12 years ago than anything else you saw anywhere else, because they were doing stuff that was, quite frankly, against the wall, needed to be investigated. Yeah, all sorts of people. That’s
Mike Silver 12:14
a different that’s a different book. But what I’m talking about is young creative innovators who, instead of the traditional football, hey, just do it because it works. Don’t ask why. They were creating systems that in which every move had to be justified, and then in turn, explaining that justification to their players and wanting them to know why. And they did something epic. It just because of the dysfunction and Dan Snyder and that organization, it blew up a year later, and they all got fired and and, you know, except for McVeigh and had to go do it a different way. But
8Nestor Aparicio 12:55
my point in all that is they were working in that and went other places and saw how not to do it. You know that it was that was
Mike Silver 13:03
amazing. Had went right to Cleveland. So actually, he saw even more glaringly where Ray farmer was texting down to another one of his coaches against NFL rules and telling him to put Johnny Manziel in the game. But again, it’s all there in the book. It’s killer. I don’t get into Dan Snyder the cheerleaders. That’s a different that’s that’s a book for somebody else to write. But there is some cool Dan Snyder stuff in there. I mean, you’re going to be surprised at some of this stuff in 2012 after that. RG, three season, where he’s rookie of the year, over Andrew Luck, over Russell Wilson, nobody in the league really caught up to what they were doing. Mike Shanahan goes into Dan Snyder’s offense his office, and says, We need to trade him. And Dan Snyder’s like, what? And he’s like, the league hasn’t figured it out yet, but it’s not going to be like this. They’re going to catch up to him. He’s not what you think. We can get incredible value now and play kirk cousins, and we also drafted, let’s trade him. The move was not greeted with warmth, but that’s what Mike Shanahan was thinking after 2012 or
Nestor Aparicio 14:10
maybe it is a great week to have you on. Mike silver is here. He’s going to catch his breath. He’s got a book out the why is everything. We’re going to talk about that. But there, there really are some Washington football roots during a week when the ravens are taking on this new thing, you know, that’s out there that I think everyone on the outside will compare to RG three and say, Oh, they caught lightning in a bottle for five minutes. Look at that.
Mike Silver 14:35
8Yeah. You know, I explained it all in the book, so if anyone’s interested, they can understand it a lot better. I think they will be enlightened and totally get it for people who just throw throw stuff out and are like, this is good, this is bad, I would say that. Jane Daniels, it’s early, and there will be growing pains and bumps of. Bruises, but like that pass he threw on that night game where he’s getting clocked at the end, and he drops it in the bucket for Terry McLaurin, I’m sold he’s a real dude. It might not always be amazing, you know, it’s they’re going to be ebbs and flows. It’s hard for any quarterback. Lamar had to deal with it, too. But like to me, that looks like a real dude, and that’s great news for them. And, you know, it’s football. Weird stuff happens, including injuries, but they’re not the dysfunctional disaster they were during the Snyder years, and they have a chance to build it around them in a much more, you know, much more functional way.
Nestor Aparicio 15:42
My friend Mike silver is still writing books. He’s still covering the 40 Niners. He’s still out in the world, after a stay at NFL network, as well as sports illustrated for many, many, many years, still covering the game. At you’re not a Hall of Fame voter, right? I want to make sure that that’s correct. You weren’t, I’m not a Hall of Fame voter, yeah, because we got sugs up in Marshall yonder, and you know what difference is your opinion, in my opinion, to make, if we’re not voting on it, but the the MAR Jackson, what you’ve seen happen here over six years, and you have a long standing relationship with John arball and Eric the cost and players that have been in and out and West Coast, guys like Marcus Peters and, you know, guys that have been in the locker room here, you sort of unearthed a really big story during Super Bowl season that wound up being a whole chapter in my book about quarterbacking and Flacco and taking over the locker room and angry players. I mean, you’re a journalist, journalist on all of this, but the Lamar thing, trading back into the first in the first round, jettison its Super Bowl MVP quarterback deciding to completely rip up, I don’t say the history of the sport. I don’t want to be that crazy, but taking something that had never won a Super Bowl and saying we’re going to draft around that we’re going to build around, that we’re going to build a running game and an RPO game around that we’re going to build defense around, that we have the best kicker on earth, all of those things that Harbaugh and Decosta and Ozzy in his last five minutes, because Ozzy gets charged with that last draft pick. It was at the end. But all of that has added up to two MVPs playoff games, division like all of that. Where are you on the Ravens trajectory for what’s expected of Lamar and what they’ve done around Lamar, and, you know, running the ball three times in an AFC Championship game to lay a turd Right? Like they it was all sitting there, but at some point, to your point, he’s got to get it done. They have to win a championship here with him in order for this to be what they’re saying. It is, which began with John calling it a revolution.
Mike Silver 17:33
First of all, I wouldn’t short change Ozzy like when we talk about Hall of Famers. And by the way, my opinion kind of mattered for eight years on NFL Network, as I was on every Hall of Fame show, and says, better be a Hall of Famer or I will continue to yell and scream. But I mean, Ozzie Newsome is, if you combine playing career and executive career, probably the most successful person in the history of the National Football League. He was one of the best players ever to play, because he’s in the Hall of Fame as a player, and he’s arguably the best GM I’ve covered. I mean, and I don’t know, yeah, that was his last draft, but he’s still there. And so, like, I don’t know, I don’t think, I feel like a lot of the good things that are still going on, Ozzy gets some glow on that too. I mean, like, you just want him, if Lamar
Nestor Aparicio 18:27
went to Super Bowl, that’s three eras, three Super Bowls, three decades, and Ozzy was, they don’t know. So, yeah. I mean, it’s his story still not fully written to your point, yeah. I
8Mike Silver 18:37
mean, like, to me, yes, Ozzy, like I would just say this, they get high marks for all of that, for taking them, for building it around them, for changing when they thought it got stale with Giro and putting bringing a new coordinator for all that stuff. And they’ve always had dudes in that locker room who they let be their own guys and be strong personalities and everything about the Ravens is cool. The one thing I’m not letting him off the hook for is, how did you let him even nominally be free? Because you could say, well, we had a, you know, wink wink deal with all the other teams who weren’t going to give him a guaranteed contract, and we just knew. But you’re taking a chance like you’re playing with dynamite, bro, someone could have come in and just said, like, if the dolphins didn’t think tua was going to hold up, for example, they could have just been like, yo. And I know Lamar would have been about it. Yeah, the Ravens could have matched, but you could have made it hard to match, or just tried to trade instead of a match, all I’m saying is, I will ding them for that, as far as what Lamar has to do. I mean, obviously they are trying really, really hard to win the big one and more than one, and he has lost playoff games. He’s also won some playoff games. I think if you just keep. You know, chipping and swinging and doing it the right way with a good culture, you you know, maximize your chances. And I certainly think he’s got at least one in him, maybe more. And, you know, I think other than mahomes, you couldn’t tell me, there’s a guy I would want over him. I mean, I know Josh Allen is incredible, you know, and does amazing, physical things, and seems to be a really good leader. You know. I know some of these young guys like what Stroud did last year. It’s crazy enticing, you know, baby Rogers, just because he’s been literally one of the greatest players of all time. So even at this age, I’d maybe take Aaron for one season. But, you know, other than mahomes, I don’t think there’s a player in the league I would take over Lamar, as is you mentioned it
Nestor Aparicio 20:53
being out in the market. I mean, the Colts could have had and that would have been sensible for them as well, and they wouldn’t have Joseph. Everyone.
Mike Silver 21:01
But the Chiefs should want them. I mean, you could make an argument, the Texans would be like, Well, we think our guy will be that great, or maybe now the the commanders have Jaden fever, they’re like, no, but yeah, unless you’re the chiefs, you should have tried to get Lamar. He would have been better than the guy you have. I’m sorry. I’m gonna go
Nestor Aparicio 21:21
8try and get to get your book. It is available all where all good books are sold. I still love that there are folks like out you out there writing books that I might want to read about things and strategies around football, above and beyond all the bubble gum that’s sort of out there in regard to football. Mike Silver’s been my friend for three decades. Uh, no one writes him up better than he does. Can’t believe you’re not a Hall of Fame voter, but that’s the that. That’s for the rare and elite. What are you doing these days, besides just writing the book you cover the Niners, you’re still out in the bay area. What? What gets you out of bed in the morning?
Mike Silver 21:51
Well, I am covering, I am a columnist for The San Francisco Chronicle, and having a great time doing that. I, you know, I have three grown kids and lot of time at home now with my wife. That’s been great. And I’m just trying to do journalism this book, because my first in a long time, I did books with Dennis Rodman and Kurt Warner. Got made no movie and swimmer Natalie Coughlin, back in the day, it’s good to get back in the book writing business and just trying to go out to journalism. And you know, see what’s up.
Nestor Aparicio 22:29
I’ve spent a grand total of one hour of my life around Kurt Warner, and he’s one of my all time favorite dudes. Like just if you spend any time with him, you see why that book is interesting because he is, in the other era, one of the world’s most interesting men from, where he came from, and what he did with his career, just really in a story that was that’s was meant to be a movie, right? Yeah.
Mike Silver 22:53
And what’s crazy is, like, it got made into a movie 21 years later, and was pretty faithful to the book and watching it, and, you know, at the premiere at Chinese Theater in Hollywood, giant screen, and you’re kind of like, wow, this is so corny. But then you’re like, but it’s true corny, like it’s, it was, you know, I had to even go back and look in the book, like, did he really run out of gas in the snow and have to walk like, while his family froze in the car. That can’t be, right? I’m like, oh, no, that actually did. Like, you know, it’s a movie, so they may be schmaltzed up a little, but all that corniness in that movie happened. It’s the crazy people talk about Purdy, who I cover and love and is a great story last pick on the draft. They’re like, Oh, this is the craziest story ever. I’m like, none of it is the craziest story ever. Kurt Warner is the craziest story ever. He was stocking supermarket shelves on the night shift overnight at the HyVee in Iowa and telling the other dudes in the night shift or women. Yeah, I’m a great quarterback, man, I can make it to the NFL, and they’re like, bro, you’re stalking like the CANS right now at three in the morning, like they’re thinking like, yeah, you’re totally going to make it to the NFL. Probably end up being MVP and Super Bowl MVP your first season as a starter, and then win another MVP and go to another Super Bowl that’ll totally probably happen, and then take another team to the Super Bowl, so you’ll actually go to three and and by the way, take two underperforming franchises that never do that to that point, you’ll be the guy who elevates those crappy franchises and takes them either to a championship or to the brink of a championship. Yes, totally believe you good idea.
8Nestor Aparicio 24:51
I had him on the show back when he was oh one, back when I was syndicated, and ran into him in Arizona and through all that, when he made his comeback and all that. But I was on a field with him out in LA Warren Moon’s high school through four years ago, whenever the Super Bowl was in LA three, four years ago, and we were part of the wounded warriors. But there were special football players that came out, and he played football with them, and to sit and watch him throw passes to special needs people. It was just, I’ll cry talking about it. Just that hour with him was like, that’s what it’s all about. That’s what it’s Kurt Warner, Mike Silver’s a good man too. He writes great books. Go buy his newest book on the Shanahan tree and all of the the interpersonal workings of the National Football League. Sooner or later, you’ll not get to a concert together, brother, I hope you’re doing okay. It’s always great to hear you and see and read your work. Man, right? I
Mike Silver 25:43
mean, thank you for having me. Mike silver,
Nestor Aparicio 25:45
the man, the myth, the legend, the author, you can find his work. Add on the everything, the why is always everything that’s the most important thing is the why, and we’re going to get to the why. And that’s, that’s not John hoey’s Why. Here in the YMCA, our friends at the Maryland lottery giving me Raven scratch offs to give away. It’s my birthday this week. It’s Luke’s birthday. Last week, we’re celebrating over pizza and crab cakes and crinkle cut french fries with gravy, the stuff that they don’t have out in the bay area, like real Maryland crab cakes and the good stuff that we have here, and some delicious pepperoni pizza. We’ll see you on Friday, our friends at Liberty, pure solution, sending us out on the oyster tour as well as Jiffy Lube, multi care powering us up. I’m Nestor. We’re wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, we never stop talking Baltimore positive.
