Our sports logo artist and fashionista Todd Radom discusses the color orange and the Baltimore Orioles’ designs of yore and now, among many other fashion faux pas in Major League Baseball this summer with the city connect jersey that have the Boston Red Sox inexplicably wearing the color of their wall. Who dreams up this nonsense?
Nestor Aparicio and Todd Radom discuss the Baltimore Orioles’ orange pumpkin jerseys and the evolving landscape of sports logos. Todd, an artist with 35 years of experience, explains the marketing strategies behind uniform changes, such as the Red Sox’s green jerseys, aimed at youth and short attention spans. They also touch on the impact of ownership on team branding, citing examples like the Yankees and the Astros. Nestor expresses his discomfort with the Orioles’ orange jerseys, while Todd defends the use of vibrant colors in modern sports. They conclude with a discussion on the importance of winning in shaping a team’s identity and the role of tradition in sports design.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, orange jerseys, sports logos, fashion, art, Red Sox, city connect, marketing, youth appeal, branding, ownership, tradition, uniforms, baseball, sports design.
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Todd Radom
8
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S, T, am 1570 tasks of Baltimore. We are Baltimore positive. Appreciate everybody following along here in the post Memorial Day, last place era of Orioles baseball. This one here, however, will be a little baseball, a little fashion, and probably a lot of art, maybe a little rock and roll. I will have the Back to the Future scratch all speaking of retro, we’re going to be at Green mount station in Hampstead, where they have a delicious crab cake, the Maryland crab cake tour, presented by the Maryland lottery. Conjunction with our friends at curio wellness as well as Liberty pure and Raskin global, and a whole bunch of other folks up in Carroll County on the fifth of June, and then the 13th, we’re going to make our way down to fade, least if I can get my equipment repaired from the Las Vegas disaster. Speaking of disasters, the Orioles season is in progress. And, you know, I keep Strange Company. I mean, I I get all of these, um, these thoughts out on social media about being an aging male and not having enough male friends and doing enough males as all these women do all these getaways and yoga retreats, and my wife’s running off with her sister and her family doing family stuff and all that. Todd rate him and I have become bros from the Philadelphia, Baltimore thing. We’ve actually had cheese steaks together with Dick Gerardi in Fishtown up in Philly. He’s not a Philadelphian, but he has decided to get filthy at this point in his life. And live in Philadelphia, he is an artist extraordinaire. He has created all sorts of logos, some he will take credit for, some he has run from. Today will be to tell the truth with you. Todd rate and because these orange pumpkin jerseys come back every time they come back, the first thing I think of all right, there’s you, and there’s received, and then there’s a couple of my buddies, like Joe Enoch, who have a sense of humor about teams, and certainly Luke Jones, who’s the fashion police here. He’s our fashionista. I don’t know what to make of it, but you look at it through the whole sports landscape of the changing, evolving tapestry of logos, and that you know, you can make a swashbuckling Buccaneer in the 1970s and make it hold up 50 years later, but somehow the city connects, and these pajamas the Red Sox were wearing over the weekend leads me back to you, because you are the Minister of all things sports, art. Well,
Todd Radom 02:26
first of all, Nestor, it’s great to see you again, my friend, and if two guys can’t bond over a cheesesteak in Fishtown. I mean, you know that just says everything you need to say, you
Nestor Aparicio 02:37
have to have a seat with a window in Fishtown. A fish town needs to be seen. You know, you don’t want to sit with your back to not that I’m making any of those kind of references, but you want to look out the window when you’re in Philly, at least, I think, and look around,
Todd Radom 02:49
8yeah, and that, and where you and I went, Joe’s stakes at the corner of Gerard and Frankfurt. Am a particularly wealthy Tableau in terms of everything. People, old school, trolleys, dogs, all kinds of stuff.
Nestor Aparicio 03:04
I ordered my cheese stick with lettuce and tomato. He called me a tourist.
Todd Radom 03:09
Well, I’m gonna tell you a very I don’t want to veer off course over here and steer us into a you can
Nestor Aparicio 03:14
go anywhere you want. Man, I’m ready for you today. Todd, I mean, I’m ready. I haven’t done radio in five days. Memorial Day. I sacked my faith, Lee’s crab cake tour. I got, I have coffee, Zeke’s coffee here, and I’m ready to listen. Let’s go. All right, well, so
8Todd Radom 03:29
I gave you the heads up, but I had some, some friends, some very dear friends from the UK, visiting here for a week. And they are big baseball fans. This is a couple one, the the guy, husband, wife, the guy did a semester in the US, okay, got it back in, back in the 80s at Plattsburgh state in upstate New York. Fell in love with baseball. Went to Montreal Expos games and so anyway, they are such Die Hard baseball fans that couple of years ago, when the Yankees and Red Sox played in London, their kids got him Father’s Day, a Father’s Day gift, of all gifts, which was tickets for that series. So they’re really into it. So anyway, we went down to Baltimore. We took Amtrak from Philly to Baltimore and went to an Orioles game. I’ll get to that in a second. But my friend Steve experienced his first Philly cheesesteak, and that was at Joe’s, looking out the window, as you referenced,
Nestor Aparicio 04:28
when’s better than going to that corner down in South Philly, which is fine, but you know, Geno’s, and like Pat said, I’ve had them all. I’ve had him at 3am I’ve had him at 3pm they’re fine, but to me, you can do better. Matter of fact, I’ll bring you down to Pizza John’s, and I’ll get you a cheesesteak down here to blow your
Todd Radom 04:45
mind. All right, I’m up for it. You know, that had to piss me off. I did. I intentionally wore this. All right, so here’s
Nestor Aparicio 04:53
8the problem, Todd random is our guest. Todd has done tell everybody about yourself in 30 seconds. You’re like a sports cartoonist. You’re you’ve written bull. Books, you’ve you’ve designed your that guy, right? You’ve done logos, you’ve done all that, right?
Todd Radom 05:04
So I always say, I’ve been, I do a number of things, but I’m working in sports design for more than 30 years, almost 35 years now, when I started doing this, there really was no, no such thing. There were very few people doing it, and people really didn’t care too much about the uniforms you’ve made
Nestor Aparicio 05:21
a lot of teas, a lot of money, just redesigning all this, because I know that it’s what it’s about. But let me just say this, and I’ll be really sincere and Frank, I don’t know you well. I know you well enough to know it’s dangerous what you know and the access you have, and you might be developing the Super Bowl logo for Super Bowl 74 right now, and I don’t even know it, right? Because that’s the way a guy like you work. So when I find these red sox First off, I I put the television on the Orioles having one in a month, it’s like the most unbelievable implosion of all implosions. We got a fired manager. Got all this going on here, right? And that’s not even anything to do with Justin Tucker, but we’ve lost the baseball season here in the time that you brought your friends from the UK down here, like eight games in a row, 18 under five. Just awful stuff happening. And while the 17th to 18th loss, you know, under 500 was happening, I put the game on, and the Red Sox are dressed like and I couldn’t figure it out. It took me a minute. I’m watching. I’m like, All right, what? What is it? And then I’m like, oh, it’s the color of the wall. They’re dressed like the green monster. And I’m like, Well, what happened to the Ukrainian pajamas they were wearing five minutes ago? And like, what happened to the sanctity of the you’re the Boston Red Sox. And like, keep your brand. And then I realized I started poop, texting you, and I thought, Oh, my God, this might have been randoms idea. And now that you’re wearing the hat I am, you’re smiling at me like maybe you were behind this, or, you know, the people that were behind this, and you can’t insult them. But I’m telling you right now, I don’t get any of this, and this is my chance to yell, get off my lawn to everybody. So
Todd Radom 07:08
so here we go. Nestor, you and I are the the old guys that all of this stuff is not aimed toward. Let’s just agree on that part. What is it aimed toward? It’s aimed for youth, and it’s aimed toward youth, and it’s aimed toward a society in which all of us have our faces in our devices, 24/7, 365, and our attention spans are so diminished that they are worn down to a nub. So let’s move it back for one second, and I will always cite the example of the NBA as the most egregious example of too many uniforms. Because if I’m watching an NBA game, not the playoffs right now, but a regular season game, I don’t know where these teams are playing, right I don’t know who’s playing who, in many cases, because the Milwaukee Bucks are out there in blue. And you know the we can just go off on a tangent with this stuff Baseball. Baseball has a great deal of inventory. Let’s just say 162 regular season games played out over the course of the majority of the year, and it’s a relatively static game compared to hockey, compared to basketball. So I think there’s room for expression. Now, let me just throw a big caveat out there this city connect marketing program, because that’s what it is. Has some hits and it has some misses, and I will be the first one to say and I have had nothing to do with this professionally. Okay, this is all a Nike joint. Some of them do back flips to make work. So the Red Sox Ukrainian uniforms, as you call them, which I’m at all down with. I call them minions. They’re yellow, and they’re minion like. They look a little bit like the
8Nestor Aparicio 08:59
bananas the savannah wing of the success of that that is this Harlem Globetrotters meets, you know, Eddie feiners all, I mean, I I Billy
Todd Radom 09:11
Bill League, like bridges the gap there between those two clubs, right? But, but here’s the thing that was, I’m just gonna, like, step back and give you their marketing spiel, which I’m not buying. That was all about being a salute to the Boston Marathon. Okay, those are the colors of the Boston Marathon. And here’s the thing, the MLB uniforms, of course, are Nike. I believe it was Reebok or Adidas, whatever that did. The had the rights to the marathon, so it’s really guerrilla marketing, but those uniforms have now become an alternate uniform, not a city connect. So the Red Sox have their white homes. They’ve got their gray traditional roads, and you know now we’ve got green entering the picture. Now
Nestor Aparicio 09:58
you’re the red. Red Sox, red, red socks.
Todd Radom 10:02
8Do the White Sox wear white socks? Nestor they? Well, the White Sox have
Nestor Aparicio 10:07
worn a whole bunch of things, nothing as good as a 69 jersey, I might add. But, but, yeah, I don’t know coming from when I’m making this argument, because the red side the wall thing to me is, like, you’re wearing the hat right now. Like, I get it. I’ve been staring at that wall since, you know, fist, you know, waved at it and T on through in front of it. Yaz defended it and, like, on and on and on. But I don’t know why you’d need to wear it’d be like the Orioles wearing bricks, like, literally wearing orange, yeah. But a
Todd Radom 10:43
lot of teams have bricks. The Colorado Rockies could wear bricks because of, instead of, like, dropping bricks
Nestor Aparicio 10:50
the I just don’t, why not just, like, really lean into your brand. You know what I mean? Lean into the orange and black. If you’re the Orioles, lean into the blue and the red, mainly the red and the white, if you’re the Red Sox. I mean, I’ve seen some beautiful jerseys, you know, like the Brewers going back to their, their, you know, we played them last week, and I thought that looks like Robin you out and Paul model are going to come get me any minute. And, you know what I mean, and, and I get that vibe of throwback for an an old guy like me, but I also get the appeal that when young people see Patriot Pat, they kind of dig it too, right?
8Todd Radom 11:28
Yeah, yeah. Or Bucha Bruce to your to your point earlier. But who digs
Nestor Aparicio 11:32
the Ukrainian? Look for the Red Sox that’s a real Red Sox fan. Any Red Sox fan looks at that and says, Dude, just give me something that looks like Yaz or looks like, you know, Kurt Schilling or something. You know, you got
Todd Radom 11:43
a generation of people who the millennials. And I’m not going to be the, get off my lawn. I try not to be well. You are young and hip. You really are well, you know, we, you and I. It’s the cheesesteaks that keep us young, even if our even if our hearts are not benefiting. But those yellow jerseys Nestor were incredibly popular among younger people. I’m just gonna put it that way. And probably some people our age, too, here and there, who just wanted a break from the usual, right? A little diversion. Now I’m not going to defend those, but I will defend the the green, because I think Fenway green and the look of Fenway and how closely that ballpark is tied to 120 years of Red Sox tradition. I think it’s a natural extension. There are no market speak linguistic backflips that need to be executed that that connect those two things. They own. It. It looks like the Red Sox. It looks like the culture of the red, SOX yellow, not so much if you’re the Baltimore Orioles and you’re going out there in black uniforms that literally just say Baltimore and white, and the sleeves have some colorful pattern. You know, I can well, by
Nestor Aparicio 12:54
8the way, the colorful pattern is meant to emulate neighborhoods like you know, it all has some symbolism that you either understand or you don’t or you have to Google, like, it took me a good like, two to five minutes to look at the Red Sox uniforms and then try to guess, and then I had to Google, and then the announcers, by the third inning, had told the story once or twice. I guess I missed the pre game, right? Because they they’d only lost nine in a row at that point, and were 17 games under 500 was a Saturday morning. I needed a freaking break from how awful the baseball’s been. But the can I like, I want to pull back the onion because Todd Radom, you really are an insider. You’ve written books, you’ve alluded to, and it’s funny to hear who the villains are and who the heroes are, and the artists and all of this. But you’ve alluded to the to the fabric manufacturers and the the Nikes and the Under Armours and the Reeboks and the Adidas is, and whomever they are in sport, and that could be anywhere from in in European soccer, where they put beer logos, you know, primarily in the on the front of their chest that becomes Carlsberg becomes the logo, right? Or air, Emirates Air, or whatever, becomes their logo to, traditionally, now baseball doing this, shoulder patches, and NASCAR being an Eminem’s machine, and whatever it would be, um, the the power that ownership would have, let’s say David Rubenstein here, and let’s, let’s just talk for Baltimore and Boston. That’s to keep this easy Red Sox and Orioles and Major League Baseball and Nike because of that, right? I’m trying to understand the real business of this to say, all right, Mikey’s paying a fortune. They’re going to design things. And every team, Yankees, Tigers cubs, they’re all nobody’s off limits here to be bastardized, right? And Jerry Jones is bastardizing the Cowboys 40 years ago, making money off of blues and silvers and alt helmets and different stuff like that. So I get the money part. I get the nifty part when it looks good, like that Raven kiss face that you and I love, it wasn’t big enough on the helmet. But like, I always thought they should have it so, like, I’ll make a modern argument. When it look dude, if it looks like ish, it’s ish. And if it looks like the Steelers, the jailbird pajamas, it’s goofy. Look like bumblebees. But somewhere between art, design, money, the teams, the league, branding, and then the decision that gets made, and the stuff appears in the gift shops, and it happens, and coaches have to wear it, and everybody’s got to Kumbaya and try to sell it. Where’s the power? Is the power Nike is the power still in ownership to say we’re not wearing those jerseys, or for the Bengals to say, Hey, I like that white. Let’s go with that after they, you know, teams that have changed a lot, my padres, the Astros, whatever, and then teams that never change at all. I would like to think that somebody with the Red Sox would be a grown up about this. And for all of these organizations that there be some sort of safety net to not have such. I mean, what the Rangers did with taitos as an example,
Todd Radom 16:09
yeah, but that’s not on the field. That was, that was a fashion cap that, you know, it never crossed the line. The moonlight gram thing applies the minute you cross those white lines. Things enter into a little bit more of a sacred territory, perhaps. But to answer your question, the power lies with ownership. And a perfect example would be the fact that the New York Yankees do not have a city connect uniform, right? I mean, the Yankees famously in 1999 when NLB embarked upon a turn ahead the clock program where teams were you remember this? I suppose to look like they were going to look like in the year 2021, which sounds quaint now,
Nestor Aparicio 16:47
Ken Griffey Jr looked like he was in the Jetsons or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And
Todd Radom 16:51
that’s kind of cool in retrospect. But George Steinbrenner famously said, we are wearing our jerseys of the future, the pinstripes that look like DiMaggio and mantle. And that’s
8Nestor Aparicio 17:01
a great quote. Yes, I love having you on for that stuff. That’s beautiful, see,
Todd Radom 17:04
I mean, so So, yeah, it is all about gatekeeping. And in the case of the Boston Red Sox, the Red Sox are not just John, Henry and Tom Werner. They are Liverpool, and they are, you know, so many other things, Fenway Sports Group. They’re a conglomerate the Pittsburgh Penguins, so they’re a marketing behemoth, and their their goal is to make money, but even better, Nestor, they want to keep local revenue stuff that doesn’t have to be shared. So when you see a mass Mutual Insurance patch on the Boston Red Sox or T Rowe Price on the Baltimore Orioles, right? I mean, you know that’s about, that’s about money that they don’t have to share.
Nestor Aparicio 17:46
Well, in the case of the decision that gets made when they lay the colors and the fabrics out in front of John angelos, in the case of the city connects. In the case of whatever this, this guy’s already made a bobble out of himself. The things we’ll get to on the field the minute. Let’s just stay with, let’s we haven’t even talked about the orange pajamas, but that, to me, feels like that probably was a John Angelo’s thing from two, because it takes 234, years to bubble this thing together to get them onto the field. We’ve seen that jersey for 50 years. They look like, I don’t know, like, like pumpkins. And, you know, Jim Palmer’s laughed about it on the air for 40 years now. Now they’ve actually put them out on the field in it. And I see gunner Henderson running around, and I keep thinking to myself, probably not a great idea. I mean, you probably could do something weird and bastardize the Oriole logo in a lot of ways. They’ve had ornithologically Correct they’ve had cartoon birds, they’ve had Angry Birds, happy birds, sad birds. They’ve had all sorts of things that they could do. The Orioles is like, I’d loved it. If I owned the team Todd, I would call you and receive and I’d say, hey, let’s do something fun. Jana, I get people involved because you can have fun with orange and black. You don’t need to the Orioles don’t need to wear bricks on their jerseys with the Oriole Park at Camden Yards logo on their like you’re the Orioles look like Cal ripke, look like Brooks. You know, I look like Frank. You know,
Todd Radom 19:12
8our orange aren’t a little bit goes a long way. I think you and I would agree on that. And the Orioles orange jerseys, which I remember texting you a couple of weeks ago. I see Eddie Murray in that I see the 1979 in 83 World Series in those uniforms, right? So you pair that with the pants, and you become traffic cones. There’s no question about it. Here’s a little piece of trivia about orange Nestor, the most suave American perhaps, of the 20th century. Frank Sinatra, Orange was his favorite color. Did you know that? I did not know that his house in Palm Springs was decked out in orange. He called Orange the happiest color. And you know what? He was, right? Orange is pretty awesome. I love orange, but I will tell you this I have. Pair of Chuck 70s that I’ll wear bright orange like, you know, blow you out. I wore em down a Camden Yards a couple of weeks ago. A little goes a long way, but I’m just going to steer it back to the marketing point. I was
Nestor Aparicio 20:14
just going to sing, baubles, bangles, right? Shiny beads, yes, happiest color, it’s the happy the orange is great, until you go to Cleveland and see a Browns game, then you’re like, oh, oh, that’s
Todd Radom 20:26
a lot of brown. You put brown in the mix, and that has to do with the Padres and giving the people what they want when they reverted back to their ups look, as I call it. We could be a little more scatological about what yellow and brown look like, but I’m not gonna go there. I
Nestor Aparicio 20:42
think of it more of as a Ray Kroc McDonald’s. You know, back back when the the Hot pies would burn the roof of your mouth properly. Remember that? Yep,
8Todd Radom 20:51
I remember it well, and I think I’m still feeling the scars on the roof of my mouth. Tom
Nestor Aparicio 20:55
randoms here. He is a sports artist and a logo guy. He What are you working on lately? Is there anything? I mean, I really wasn’t afraid, afraid that I had insulted you because you work in the industry. I thought maybe you did the Fenway thing. I really didn’t know. I know you do it. You know the people who did it. So you’re trying to be politically correct about do you have a favorite? Do you have, like, one or five modern things that you would say, Well, that just looks great. Because I don’t like, I looked at all the city connects Luke and I were looking at them and trying to figure out, like, Well, that looks okay, and that might be okay. And some are just, like, fails, like, right straight away, like, everybody hated them. But I don’t just mean city kicked is, is there anything going on that you look at and say, that’s an upgrade, and it’s new. It’s not throwback, because the throwbacks always catch me.
Todd Radom 21:43
Yeah, and me too. And I think that we’ve been stuck in this very easy place where, you know, teams and leagues have reverted to throwbacks. Because I’ve said this before to you. It’s sort of like comfort food, a big heaping bowl of mashed potatoes or vanilla pudding just tastes awesome. It makes you feel good. It’s easy on the eye. Here in Philadelphia, the world champion Philadelphia Eagles, the defending Super Bowl champions, people love that kelly green look. And you know what? It looks great. I’m going to say this Nestor. I think that consumers, that’s what we are, sports fans, consumers of all kinds, we see colors differently than we might have five or 10 years ago, and I think it’s because we’re exposed to, particularly in sports, brighter colors LED lights. You go to a stadium or an arena and that place is just blown out, and the colors are just incredibly vibrant and rich. And I think younger people in particular respond to that, because they’re kind of used to it. They’ve grown up in an atmosphere of this that you and I did not necessarily
Nestor Aparicio 22:49
8so Well, it’s funny. You’d say that because I went to a NASCAR race once in my life, and it was in 1997 98 at Dover, and I went down there, and I didn’t like it, right? It was loud, the and I don’t get it, you know, like, I don’t get it, you know, I don’t get it right? Really, really loud. And lot of people and but the thing I remember vividly, the South ass, the cars go like your eyes can’t even track how fast the I mean, it’s an amazing spectacle. It really is. And the speed and the precision television does not do it justice. But the color of the cars, they look like glowing Eminem objects in the sunlight. It was in May that I went. It was a beautiful day, and just seeing the 30 or four, however many cars were like going 300 miles an at 210, miles an hour, whatever it was in circles, the color of it jumped me to say, Oh, I kind of get like that appeal if you’re a kid, if you’re there, in the same way that the circus had color, you know what? I mean, like, in the same way that sports the green grass and the things that lured me into being a Houston Oiler fan back in the day, you know? I mean, it was something about color, right? So I would, I would subscribe to everything you’re talking about when you go to an end in NBA arena. Now, it is really a washing color. Yeah,
Todd Radom 24:12
yeah, it really is. And so, to answer a question that you, that you pose, what am I up to? I work with ice cube on his big three basketball league, and I have for eight, nine years now, and that’s kind of a a renegade league in certain respects. It’s a touring League. It’s, you know, it’s played in the summer, and you can do things there in terms of color and the look of the presentation of the game that you wouldn’t do in the NBA, because you don’t have 80 some odd years of tradition attached to it, you can take chances. And they’re going to be in Baltimore, as a matter of fact, in a couple of weeks. So that arena very, very dark, right? Very black and white, very monochromatic, Barkley center in Brook. And is kind of similar on a larger scale. So when you start injecting a little bit of color, it can it can be a very good tool to draw people’s eyes in and sell into. Let’s put it that way. But too much can certainly be too much, and it depends on the traditions of what sport you’re talking about, baseball being the most traditional game. I mean, my God, they’re wearing uniforms with buttons, these vestigial buttons that are the equivalent of an appendix. They don’t need them, right? But it’s all about tradition. Why are they wearing Why is the manager wearing a uniform? Why are the players wearing socks? Why do they look like the 1869 Cincinnati Red Stockings. By the way, I love
Nestor Aparicio 25:42
the Mike Nolan era of coaches. Throwing back that to, you know, the Tom Landry look in the NFL
Todd Radom 25:49
and Winter Classic coaches in the NHL, the leisure
8Nestor Aparicio 25:53
of basketball coaches is kind of like that’s left me after Pat Riley. And you know that there was a, you know, there was a fashion thing going on, even with fish ties back in the 80s and Don Nelson, you know. But for me, the fashion part of selling the items, seeing them in a gift shop and and Todd, I mean, you’ll appreciate this, but I don’t ever go to Manhattan without walking through Midtown and walking through the MLB store. I’m not an NBA fan, really. I mean, it’s left me for all the reasons you talked about, just the awfulness of the of the wizards aside and everything else that’s gone on, I don’t recognize it when I see it. And the game itself, much like baseball when they were shifting and stuff, the game’s not as good as it used to be for me. I think that’s why people love the women’s game, because the women’s game is a better game. Games a better game, just a physical just a better game. But I walk through those stores and see really cool Padre stuff, really cool Brewer stuff, stuff that I identify with, even the weird old mariners, Bruce Bach, the Rupert Jones kind of era of throwback stuff. And I I get why that appeals to a guy of my age, but I’m also looking to say what’s, what is the future, not just of the Yankees brand, but of other brands when they have been bastardized and I mean, I don’t know what the A’s are going to be. The age is going to roll around into three markets and keep everything it appears that way, right? I mean, I’m going back to Charlie Finley and, you know, moving the team from Kansas City and all of that, but it feels like teams have a chance that. We lost Jim Irsay last week too. So I’ll throw that in. I’ve been doing a whole lot on the life of Jim Irsay, who I got to know a little bit, but there was, there’s a whole movement in Baltimore amongst the old people of he should have given the cold stuff back when we got our team and been the racers, and they would have had a chance to do their own markings, their own colors. And I know David Modell relished to the day he died, lived for the fact that he got to make the Ravens markings and make something new, make something fresh. And for all of the franchises that have had names like the R word in Washington or the I word in Cleveland, or even the college teams with Syracuse and other places like that, to be able to rebrand and rebirth. And I’ve done it a couple times myself here. There is a point for that when I see a guy like Rubenstein come in and buy a brand like the Orioles and say, All right, big boy, you made your bobble head team. Sucks. You got to figure out how to win. But I know the things that you like to have fun. You sat on the Kennedy Arts Foundation. You’re probably, when they bring you some jerseys, you’re probably going to want to look at some of the swaths and look at the alt hats and look at the this and the that they’re spending $600 million on the stadium redesign here, and I’m hoping Janet Marie gets a piece of that, because I want it to be better kept in the left field wall has been here over the last five years.
Todd Radom 28:51
Her gifts her, you know, with that ballpark, just not to interrupt, but sure, you should be in the Hall of Fame. She should be in Cooperstown.
Nestor Aparicio 29:02
Yes, yes. Where do I get the vote for that? You know, change
Todd Radom 29:06
8the way that we see the game. And I’m not just saying that because she’s a friend, but I admire her work, and have, you know, long since, long before I knew her. But, but I’m going to jump in and answer your question. I think that if you are the owner of a team. You are the steward of a legacy, right? And I want to move back for one second, because you talked about, you know, when the Colts moved. And you know, people are still there. There are people older, people who are still ripped up about the Dodgers having left New York, right? And that took place in 1958 but the opportunity to start from scratch and to do something that represents a moving forward is a rare one. And I was just reading the other day about okay, the Oklahoma City Thunder appeared to be, you know, they are on the cusp, as you and I speak of an appearance in the NBA Finals. All that history that was left behind in Seattle, they did not take with them to ok. Oklahoma City. It resides in a museum, the championship banner from 1979 the trophy, their artifact, blah, blah, blah, all. They’re not the Oklahoma
Nestor Aparicio 30:08
City Sonics. No, they are not, and they shouldn’t, like the Utah Jazz, yeah, and it’s
Todd Radom 30:14
a different it’s a different age, like you probably wouldn’t unless there was a real reason to do that, you wouldn’t do that. I’ve certainly read enough and researched about why did the Dodgers keep Dodgers? And the Giants kept Dodgers when they moved out west in the late 50s? Well, because there was equity attached to the name, and there was no license or marketing to speak of at that moment. So it made sense for them to keep all of that. How offensive
Nestor Aparicio 30:39
to somebody from Brooklyn that they took the B and made it in? La, yeah. I mean, I mean, like, I can’t, you know, like, to how offensive that would be to anyone like, and I, and I speak as a Baltimore Colts guy that you know, in the aftermath of Jimmy Irsay, that I sat with him privately, and he said I’d do anything to change it, but I can’t change what actually happened. And the notion that we would have wanted the Colts logo back after those 12 years, I don’t think we wanted it back, but I think there’s a point for all of these franchises that have to rebrand, rethink things, try to run away from bad things, or try to seek good things. Change is inevitable. I mean, I that’s the one thing I can sit here with, you know, as I hold Houston Oilers and St Louis Cardinals stuff, you know, the change is going to happen. I just wonder what pace and the why and the WHO that decides on all this. Because it usually does happen when ownership transfers, when people transfer, when ideology transfers, and when there’s public sentiment to move things in a different direction, to run away from something like what the Washington football team has right now, right? All of that great history, all that awful history, and saying, Well, we’re commanders now we’re going to do something different, you know? Well, I mean, that’s
8Todd Radom 31:56
an unusual example, clearly, because of public sentiment, or, let’s just without diving into the deep end of something you probably don’t want to dive into. They had to make that change when they made it, and at least they kept the colors. And here’s the thing, Nestor, they have an opportunity. They were a good team. They got to the conference final last year. Winning elevates a look. So when you talk about the fact that, you know, listen in 1985 86 people in Baltimore, and you could speak to this. And I can’t, yeah, there were probably a lot of people who wanted colts back, but the Ravens go out. They make a history of their own. They win Super Bowls equity. Gets attached to that name and that look and good feelings. Result. Washington has a chance to do that. Looks like they’re going to build a stadium where RFK used to be. They’re making new memories, you know, and, and that’s, that’s a powerful thing that really is, but, but the whole city, your question about owners being fashionistas, if you want to look at that way, I’ll give you a couple of examples. First of all, every owner of fashions, they want to put their stink on this, this expensive new toy that they
Nestor Aparicio 33:07
have, our guys already made a bobble ahead of himself. Yeah,
Todd Radom 33:10
and that doesn’t have to do with the uniform, right? I mean, so don’t tell me he won’t be involved. You’re right. And you know, people, people are stunned. You remember the look of the Houston Astros at the turn of the 21st Century, that brick and black and buff color, early
Nestor Aparicio 33:26
8Bagwell Bucha, yes, yeah.
Todd Radom 33:28
And I kind of associate, you know, they’re all, well, I shouldn’t say that a couple of them are in the Hall of Fame with that broken star, with the with the navy blue and gold. But anyway, those were the colors of Drayton McLean’s trucking company. That’s why the astronauts have those colors.
Nestor Aparicio 33:43
Already said Ray Kroc and McDonald’s, right? That’s why, that’s why Dave Winfield looked the way he did the 70s. Right? Totally.
Todd Radom 33:49
And, you know, and so if you know, Jim crane comes along, buys the franchise in 2012 2013 of course, he wants to get rid of that and impart a new look on that team. And I was involved with that. And they went back to the past. They dug into the past. And, you know, winning made a big difference in terms of public perception, good and bad. In that case,
8Nestor Aparicio 34:15
you said something really brilliant to be said. Winning lifts, you know, elevates, the like, I think about what the Chicago Bulls were before Michael Jordan came along. They were just, you know, stay in love, you know. They were like, you know, like, who would, who would want that? And I think then there’s the it moved into a realm of the Yankees, the Yankees and the bulls were like, you know, and, and it really even the Patriots in recent times, even your red sox goofy brick hat you’re wearing their family wall hat you’re wearing the Red Sox thing. When they started winning and I met my wife 20 years ago, every human from any six state area was wearing a red sox B of some kind to say where they’re, Kansas City. All. My God, like the winning of the Royals into the chiefs. Just travel anywhere you will see Casey everywhere, because there is a civic, regional pride involved in winning, like, literally winning, you know, and I there, there’s nothing winning about Oriole stuff, right? You want to do any baseball. You have any because you were, like, you’re a baseball head. You were down here. Like, what the hell has happened here? You’re in Philadelphia, where they marching parades and doing all that stuff. But this thing here has, it’s sad, man. I mean, I don’t want to say, like, we, I was in Toronto, like, a minute ago, opening day. We had a real season. Then you’re 20 games under 500 Yeah.
Todd Radom 35:41
And you know, the obvious thing to say down there, Nestor is you’ve got this incredible young talent, and it seemed like they were on the cusp of something. And you mentioned Pat Riley earlier, and I remember Pat Riley talking about teams that you need to lose before you win, right? I mean, the bulls that you reference. How many times did Michael Jordan lose to the pistons before, you know, brand the Cavaliers and the cabs, right? So the Orioles certainly, and you know, they appeared to be on the cusp of something really, really special, and all of a sudden, things just blew up. And is it a non investment in pitching that would certainly seem to be a big deal, but not the only thing, it’s never the manager’s fault. 100% you can’t fire the players. But the amount of pessimism that I experienced there relative to the amount of optimism that I experienced the last time I went there, was palpable and totally understandable, and to the point where, like I said, I had these UK friends. They had never been to Baltimore before Nestor, but that was their only experience. Oh,
Nestor Aparicio 36:46
man, I didn’t go to Vegas early, and I didn’t circle back view, and I was in town that night, because I stayed home for those three days. It was the night that Gina shock and the Go Go’s played in Vegas, and I thought I was going to be there, and I didn’t go till Saturday, and I was in town, and I so, like, I can’t believe I didn’t take your friends out for some faithless crab cakes, or over to Costas and give them some hard shells to hit on. And I’m sorry, man, that would have been the real experience, but I pooped the bed on that rate. I’m terrible friend to you, man,
Todd Radom 37:16
8they want to come down next time, because, well, there you go. All right, it’s such a great city, and they they got a snoot full of it for as much as you could. Well, tell them
Nestor Aparicio 37:24
when they come next time, we’ll try to make sure the baseball team’s not in last place. Okay, what are we going to do about that? You know, when Angelo’s owned the team, they were never allowed to call it last they had to call it fifth place. That’s abs. If I said it. It’s true, believe me, there’s I write humor here. That’s not a part of my humor. I’m gonna work on my humor act because I can make stuff up there. The problem with this show is I can’t make stuff up. Tom random is here I’d like to make up the fact that I thought that those orange uniforms would look better than they do. Dude, I was solidly behind. Put them on, put them on, put them on, until they put them on, and then, and you know the argument that Luke and I legitimately have, and this goes back to Justin Tucker, but it doesn’t there’s a famous picture of Justin Tucker wearing the purple um uniform with the with the gold pants the Ravens wore them one time. And I don’t know why Tucker is the one that the picture shows up all the time, but, like, I love that look. Luke hated it, and I thought it had some Regal, Royal Notre Dame throwback kind of like, and they never wore it again. And people hated it, and I still like it, and people think I’m tongue in cheek. I really liked it. Did you hate that? Look?
Todd Radom 38:42
No, I like it. And here’s the thing, Nestor, you think about baseball pants, dark baseball pants, a lot of these city connects that are just all black. It’s an awful, awful look, because the pants are baggy for the most part, right? And it just and they’re they’re not moving around as much as in football. They look a it was a good look. I’m just going to put it that way. It’s a good color combo. Reminds me of the Lakers. There’s nothing wrong with that.
Nestor Aparicio 39:07
Yeah, alright, let’s get a cheese steak sometimes too. Todd Raiders up Philadelphia. He’s in Fishtown, working on all sorts of things, working on logos, working with ice cube, who once came on the show here in the cool Basketball League, and noting there’s not a day that goes by where something doesn’t come to your desk, right? Like there’s not a new piece of sports art, a new hat, a new all to new something for you to give a thumbs up or a thumbs down. You like Siskel and Ebert, right?
8Todd Radom 39:33
24/7 365,
Nestor Aparicio 39:36
I can’t believe you like that wall thing in Boston. Tom Radom is here. Go check him out. Google him, find him, uh, purveyor of all things and keeping the flame alive. For the Hartford Whalers logo and probably the Montreal I’m going to get an expos throwback something, because every time I see it, I think I need to own something. I need to own something that says, folks, all right, I’m Nestor. We are wnst. Am 15 70,000 Baltimore Fashion Police are going. Going to sleep until Luke comes back on here and we talk about pumpkin uniforms again. I’m.
