It’s a big week for the somewhat-surging, last-place Baltimore Orioles who have shown some vital signs in recent weeks and now arrive in The Big Apple to face scuffling the scuffling New York Yankees at The Bronx. Luke Jones and Nestor discuss the Birds finding some semblance of momentum to keep the season alive this summer.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Orioles’ recent performance and upcoming series against the Yankees. They highlighted the team’s split with the Rays, noting Colton Cowser’s three-run home run and Charlie Morton’s strong start. They emphasized the importance of winning games against division rivals and the need to chip away at their 10 games under 500 record. Jones criticized the team’s recent losses, particularly Wednesday’s game, and discussed the potential trade value of players like Cowser and Heston Kjerstad. They also touched on the importance of developing young talent and the need for better pitching depth.
Luke Jones and Nestor discuss … momentum to keep season alive
Fri, Jun 20, 2025 7:52AM • 43:18
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
Orioles, Yankees, momentum, trade value, Colton Cowser, Charlie Morton, pitching depth, young players, division rivals, road trip, injury recovery, trade deadline, Mike Elias, playoffs, rehab assignments.
8
SPEAKERS
Nestor Aparicio, Luke Jones
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 TAs, Baltimore. We are Baltimore, positive. Cool down out there. Whatever you’re doing, it’s starting to heat up. Finally, it’s complaining about it being 50 degrees. Now it’s a finally heating up. The Maryland crab cake tour is heating up. We’re going to be at readers, first time ever at Reisterstown. At this location, we used to be abatements A million years ago, and lights went off and smari Roll was there. That’s what happens when you get to be old. But when you get to be old, you get to give away the Back to the Future scratch offs. I gave these away last week at the Y in Randallstown. I had some great conversations there as well. We’re out on the road, man, we’re going to be a Costas and Timonium soon. We’re going to be out in Eldersburg at 1623 brewing. We’re going to be at Zeke’s coffee on a Friday morning with SIG and his coffee mafia. We’re also going to be doing deep pasquales in middle of July as well, talking about sausages, one of my favorite things, and Italian food and pastries and all sorts of good things. Down in Canton, we’re going to talk some Orio baseball here this weekend. I sort of lost my mind earlier this week. I stand behind every fact that I displayed, as well as accusations and feelings and all of that. I wish we were going to Yankee Stadium this weekend. Actually, lovely in New York this week. I was there last week, the first place New York Yankees somewhat scuffling the Mets. You’ve sort of the toast of the town as well, and the Orioles arriving as a last place team. Hey, split in Tampa got a big hit from Colton cows. Or ever since, I sort of, sort of mysteriously wanted to put him in a trade, he’s hitting the ball this week. Great. Charlie Morton, good start. Batiste in the bullpen. O’hern got to hit like, you know, when they win, we can sit here and say good things, but there’s still 10 games under 500
Luke Jones 01:45
Yeah, and that’s where it’s frustrating. What happened Wednesday night? Because you had an opportunity, a real opportunity, and this isn’t just pie in the sky. They should have taken three out of four from the rays. And if you take three out of four from the rays, then you’re looking at this weekend and saying, Hey, take two out of three, which is, should be the goal, anytime you play a series, to win a series, and you’re talking about a five and two road trip, then now you still have an opportunity to go in to the Bronx. This weekend, the Yankees just snapped their six game losing streak. Their offense has really been scuffling. It’s been very good overall. But of late, it’s scuffled. So, you know, you have an opportunity to go into New York and play good baseball, right? And at this point, you’re just trying to chip away, chip away, chip away. You know, we talked about it when they were 18 games under 500 and the season feels completely shot. Well, you get back to 10 games under 500 which is kind of been the new threshold they’re trying to get past. Oh,
Nestor Aparicio 02:46
8that means you played eight over so, like, that’s good, you know, play eight over again over a month or two, right? I mean, that’s how this app, I mean,
Luke Jones 02:53
that’s how you have to do it, right? I mean, as much as you’d love to win 10 in a row, or to win 15 in a row, or to win 19 of 20, that generally doesn’t happen in baseball often. So it is this mindset of trying to chip away. But on the flip side, that’s also why Wednesday was so frustrating, because you don’t have the margin for error to drop games that you have no business dropping, right? They need to be winning games that they had no business winning. They need to be the team that’s coming back from an eight nothing deficit and winning, not having that’s
Nestor Aparicio 03:21
how you win 101 games. You all saw that two years ago, no question. But
Luke Jones 03:25
I will say this, as awful as Wednesday night was, I mean, worst loss of the season you talked about, you know, your rant, everyone was saying how bad the loss was. I give them credit for coming back and getting the start they got from Charlie Morton and playing a cleaner brand of baseball, and Colton cowser hits the big three run, home run. How many times did we see this team the first two months of the season where you’d have a bad loss, like the Easter game, for example, and things just snowballed after that, and things would get worse, and you’d lose five of your next six or, you know, eight in a row, like they lost at one point. I mean, so, so it was good to see that, at least, I was very curious to see how they were going to respond on Thursday night, and they responded in a way that you’d like. Now that that said, it’s a split, the rays have played very well. There’s nothing to be ashamed about with the overall result of a split, but we’ve also talked about it, when you’re 10 games under 500 you’ve got to find ways to make hay, right? You’ve got to find ways to make up ground, even against the best teams and even against the best teams in your division, because those are the ones that mean the most, right? I mean, that’s not just making yourself better, but you’re bringing other division rivals closer to you in the process. So still a long way to go. Not going to be easy this weekend whatsoever. I mean, they’re going to see Max freed Friday night. Clark Schmidt’s had a good year on Saturday. You know, Warren that? That’s a little bit of a different story. But you know, for the for the Orioles, you’ve got Sugano, who’s been there, Ace Eflin, who you. It was supposed to be their race has looked good at times, and hasn’t looked so good other times. You know? I mean, he’s has an era of four eight right now. He goes Saturday, and then Kramer on Sunday. So you got to find a way to win two out of three. But the big key, I think, is don’t let the Yankees just get back on track here. I mean, they had lost six in a row, and things had looked so ugly, and there was a little bit of panic there. I mean, you know, they’re, they’re 12 games over 500 that’s, hey, the Orioles would love to be in that spot. We all know that. But it’s not as though they’re completely running away with this thing. They’ve been vulnerable, you know, they, they haven’t looked dominant to the point where, you know, I think the rest of this division, with the rays, kind of taking the lead at the moment, are looking at this thing and saying, Hey, can we make a run? Can we make a run? Now, the Orioles aren’t in that space, right? I mean, the Orioles re, you know, even if you’re trying to be somewhat realistic, you know, maybe have a chance to get back into it from a wild card perspective, but to do that, you’ve got to beat your division rivals. You’ve got to beat teams in your division, and we’ll see if the Orioles can win two out of three and and have a winning road trip and come home and keep chipping away, chipping away.
8Nestor Aparicio 06:15
And I was in New York last week. I told my wife one of my regrets was I didn’t get on the train and go get my favorite Indian food up on 100/9 and go to 161 because I’m figuring like stands and all of those places will will have nasty Nestor shirts at a deep, deep discount at this point. So I’m trying to pick some of that stuff up. But for the Orioles, going from this little, tiny minor league ballpark up to Yankee Stadium, just sort of the juxtaposition, even the lighting on television of a minor league Park the last couple of days, and sort of this spring training. Feel you the split part of it and blowing the eighth and nothing lead the other night. There is a point where, like, you feel like the car might be able to go fast, right? What? You know? What I mean, like when they’re winning eighth and nothing the third inning, and things are going right, and the offense is going right, and all these young guys get a hit, and you’re making another pitcher real, and you’re on the road and there’s fun in the dugout, everybody’s squirting off and drinking the hydration station and all that stuff. It was amazing to see how high it got. Wednesday, how low it got. Thursday, it gets evened out a little bit. But there is a point where, like I mentioned, putting Colton cows are in a deal to get a real pitcher, and everybody loses their mind the way they lost their mind last year when we talked about Jackson holiday being in a deal for school. I mean, you got to give to get at some point, and he hit the home run, first thing, I think, is John Martin’s got to go get some money for the mayor of the lottery for the home run riches. And I’m thinking to myself, well, that’s that. Mean you keep them. You mean to trade them, you know. And I’m not saying that even for cows or I’m saying that for any of these guys, that if they’re going to be 10 games under 505 weeks from now, from now, or even five games under 505 weeks from now, you know the thought that good the good young players coming on, that’s a good thing in a lot of ways, because, like, I don’t even want to be thinking about Signing athletes long term or trading Adley rutschman for anything when the stock’s low. You know what? I mean, like, one of the reasons the Stowers thing worked out last year and the Norby thing worked out a they were healthy, they were upright, to make a bad deal, as we could talk about with the with the Rogers deal. But there is a point where, like, getting these guys at bats and getting them going and, I mean, cows are sitting one room the other day like that’s not why I want to trade him. I want to trade him because he’s on fire and he’s still going to strike out 200 times a year on his best day. That’s not doesn’t mean I want to trade him, but I want not everybody to look like a failed prospect in the organization, which is exactly what it looked like about three weeks ago. Look like Ryan O’Hearn was the only prospect to graduate, and he won’t even ours. He’s a Kansas City prospect. So I keep thinking about trade value, even Charlie Morton going out and looking serviceable. I know you don’t want to give the farm away, and you were a guy the other day like and other people said, Hey, ethlyn, he might be the guy. You got to give a couple years. You got to have somebody pitching next year, no matter how this year turns out, his name can’t be Grayson Rodriguez or Bradish, or guys who don’t even have arms right now, or Suarez. But I keep thinking about the value of all of these players, and when they go out and hit home runs and play well, I don’t know that that means they’re here forever, but I do know that that makes them more attractive, that if you’re trying to get somebody else’s real pitching, which they really should be thinking about doing, because I saw how they bought it in the off season, you didn’t like it. I didn’t like it. I think we’re both of the mindset that Elias is going to survive this. I think he is. I don’t know. Maybe, if they, if they, if they’re 18 under at the end of the year, maybe he doesn’t. But it feels to me like Elias is still going to be running the show. And if that’s the case, holistically, you better be thinking about pitching somehow, some way, and Colton cows written three run home runs, a long version of me saying they better trade for I don’t want to trade Colton cows or I want you want to trade Kobe mayo. Somebody else wants trade curse that can’t trade curse that for a bag of beans right now,
Luke Jones 10:27
right? Quite frankly, I want them to sign pictures. I mean, because for $200 million or $30 million or what? No, in what way the middle class Nestor, I’ve talked about this for three or four years. I mean, I the Nathan of Aldi kind of deals that they have not done any of those, you know, no, I don’t want them to go out and spend $300 million on a pitcher. But that doesn’t mean you, you’re you limit yourself to one year $13 million deals, which is all they’ve done on the pitching front. So my thing with looking at it through the lens of cows, or someone who is at least semi established as a major league player at this point in time, right? He’s not Heston cursed at he’s he’s actually had success in the major leagues. He’s not Kobe mayo. He’s had success in the major leagues. Because okay, and you can do that. And look, this isn’t about me saying Colton cowser is untouchable. But if you trade Colton cows or what’s your outfield moving forward?
Nestor Aparicio 11:22
Well, then you’d have to believe in cursed at, right? I mean, you’d have to believe in somebody else, right? That
Luke Jones 11:27
8sounds like a way more foolish proposition at this point than 100% right? And that’s so, that’s where, that’s where I’m coming from with that. All that said, I think I have two guys right now. I I mean, it’d have to be such an extraordinary, Blockbuster deal that I couldn’t even visualize gunner Henderson and Jackson
Nestor Aparicio 11:49
holiday. They’re not going anywhere. I agree exactly. They’re not going so and if they’re going anywhere, they better be going on to a two, $40 million ledger, because that’s what you or maybe more, yeah, I don’t know, but, like, I that’s the part of this that is going to bankrupt them. You know what? I mean, that’s going to be the thing that’s going to be like, Okay, we got $80 million into two players, or 6070, something. That is extraordinary, by their math, by what $140 million whatever their payroll. I don’t know. I don’t talk to money bags. You have access. They don’t. They don’t ever show up to even ask. They have no front face. We’re just sitting here guessing and spitballing and being goofy fans. But we’re not goofy fans. You and I are not. We’re like, like we’re thinking, like they’re thinking, and I’m wondering how they’re thinking, and I’m thinking, you ain’t getting nothing for nothing. You ain’t, you ain’t sending Kobe mayo and Heston kerstad and a bag of baseballs off to get a real pitcher. And to your point, you think it’s a money proposition in the off season for them? Well,
Luke Jones 12:52
it all depends. I mean, you know, these aren’t absolutes. All of this has nuance. All of this, all of it is nuance. And, you know, we always think, and I don’t mean you. And when I say we just in a general sense, whether we’re talking about media or fans pundits, you know someone who fancies himself as a knowledgeable fan, we, we tend to look at these as like, yes or no propositions, and there’s a lot of gray area with a lot of this right with pitching,
Nestor Aparicio 13:16
especially in the modern era, talking to Jim Palmer about stuff 40 years ago when a guy’s arms didn’t fall off. Look, dude, off season, let’s go perfect here. The thing was an ish show. They got their ass kicked in October. Mr. Moneybags is out. They’re doing their off season. They signed burns. Burns decides to come for four years, 250, I don’t know, make it up, whatever. So it starts to bankrupt them. Now they got 40 million into a pitcher. Okay, great. So now what do they not do? Do they not sign Sagano? Do they certainly wouldn’t have signed Charlie Morton, right? So then they have burns. Then they they listen to Luke Jones, because looks really smart, and they want that Bueller guy,
8Luke Jones 13:54
and they go get the Bucha. Bucha, that wasn’t smart. So
Nestor Aparicio 13:58
they go get the Bueller guy, and they do what everybody else wants to do, get give more money to Nate Snell. So now Money Bags comes in and says, I’m, I’m the new Cohen. I’m 180 million deep into this. We haven’t even bothered we’re worried about Henderson right now holiday. I’m money bags. Don’t worry. We got this handled you. Just get your Birdland memberships in, and you get down here and buy the hot dogs, right? I mean, just come, to get your mass in. Get Greg Bader out. Get the get the mass and subscription. We’re all in. We got burns, we got Snell, we we got Grayson healthy coming back. We’ve got Eflin for a year, and we’re really invested. We don’t want anybody on the radio pissed off, not even our own employees, not even Melanie and Rob can say beautiful things about what we did in the off season because we signed established pictures, we spent money, we did and we’re still going to spend money on our young players, but they’re not ready yet. You know, Scott Boris says he’s a jerk. So now you have burns, you have Bueller, you have Snell, you have Rodriguez, you have Suarez, I guess, yeah. I mean, I’m trying to think of the other bodies. Kramer, the other people that they would have had around here. What would they have? They’d have a big payroll and a bunch of injured pitchers, and they would have had a parade around here, parading those guys around during the Birdland caravan. They probably could have put a Fan Fest on and signed some autographs. And what would you have? You’d have a lopsided payroll, you’d have a bad team. You’d have money sunk into pitchers that Elias would say this offseason I spent last year, and no presence for you under the tree this year from Santa, because we ain’t got nothing. So there is a point where I can make that case right. And that’s very fair case that I made, that I laid out, right?
Luke Jones 15:37
Yeah, well, I mean, I can’t fathom a world where they signed Corbin burns and Blake Snell. But what your point is? Well, taken, their pitching staff would be a disaster right now with that, but, and that’s why I’ve said I’d like to see them,
Nestor Aparicio 15:51
8their franchise would be a disaster because they would have Chris Davis on their hands to give you what I
Luke Jones 15:56
mean, like, literally, those pictures will be coming back. But, yeah, you’re looking at it in the meantime, and you’re saying, Wow, what a mess. I mean, maybe they would have signed saga you know, Sagano was a one year deal. Maybe they still would have
Nestor Aparicio 16:07
done that was two years ago. Look at how good Bradish was two years ago. If they were in any sort of peril or option, the Orioles would have lopped on 60, $80 million for either one of those cats to keep them around here long term. If that’s where they were in their you know, in the germination of where the contract has
Luke Jones 16:25
valuable, that’s That’s why young players are so extraordinarily valuable. I mean, that that’s just the truth. I mean, that’s
8Nestor Aparicio 16:31
why you don’t deal Colton cowser And I get shamed,
Luke Jones 16:34
generally ashamed. I mean, I it wasn’t. We
Nestor Aparicio 16:38
want controllable years in the guys we get to That’s right, right? Well, but,
Luke Jones 16:42
8but I guess what I was saying to you at the time and again, I don’t want to fixate on Colton cows, because it’s just the one example of a player. It’s
Nestor Aparicio 16:48
just an example of a very player who may or may not be untouchable, I just may stink, who may be a 180 hitter at the he
Luke Jones 16:56
doesn’t stink. He doesn’t Fair enough. He already. He currently has an over an 800 ops? Yes, he strikes out too much. Do I think he’s going to hit for an incredibly high average? No, but the power is there? The defensive profile, he’s a plus defender in the outfielder or the Tigers might want him saying, but that’s why I’m saying. Why the Orioles would want him too, right? Anyway, let’s stop talking about Colton Casper.
Nestor Aparicio 17:22
Well, I just found the fascinated that was such a hot button. You know, with people, it’s because it’s unthinkable, and I’m thinking, well, who are you gonna deal?
8Luke Jones 17:29
What do you but I think it’s because you look at the state of their outfield, right? I mean, because if you trade him, what do you have coming back? You’re counting on Tyler O’Neill. I mean, Cedric Mullins is a free agent. Laureano is a free agent. They’re not guys you want to invest in long term, really, at their age anyway. I mean, they’re more guys that are. They’re complimentary pieces, not like someone that you anchor. Well,
Nestor Aparicio 17:51
Tyler O’Neill’s going to be the poster boy for, why not to go shopping when the red lights on after 2am
Luke Jones 17:58
but also, hopefully, also the poster boy of when it’s a three year deal, one year will be a dud. That doesn’t mean the other three years or the other two years will be a dud. So they’re gonna have to hope for that, right? I mean, I’m not giving up on the idea that Tyler O’Neill can be productive for them at some point. If you would ask me, would I have done it, knowing what happened in year one? Of course not. But you can’t do that. So you have to pivot. You have to proceed from this point in time. That’s why I’ve said with I’ve said with Mike Elias is, you know, I’ve never thought that he’s definitely gone at the same time, I’m not going to sit here with 100% conviction and say that he’s absolutely going to be back. We have to see how the rest of this year plays out. I want to see what the draft looks like. I want to see what the trade deadline looks like. We’ve talked about it that they are most likely going to be in some kind of a hybrid state of selling off some expiring deals with an opportunity to buy some pitching. Or maybe it’s not even pitching. Maybe it’s just the player you really like, that you really COVID, that you think has some hidden value that you can untap. I don’t know, right? I mean, maybe maybe they add another outfielder in that way, I don’t know. But the point is, you’ve got to see what they do here, because this team’s obviously in a very critical spot, regardless of what happens on the field over the next month. But the trade deadline is going to be an opportunity one way or the other, right? Either, either they make the kind of hey that they’re back within a game or two of 500 or maybe even a little better than that by the trade deadline, and you say, hey, the American League’s wide open behind the Tigers. We’re not going to throw in the towel here, because look at how we played since the third week of May, right? That’s the argument you make there. You’re not going to do anything foolish, but you can make some moves on the flip side, if you are still somewhere in the neighborhood of 10, nine, eight games under 500 or maybe you backslide and you’re even worse. And then it’s a complete, you know, fade to complete. Oh, we’re definitely going to
Nestor Aparicio 19:55
8be sellers. I’d like to think they’re going to play better if they stay healthy. You hope so. I would like to think that every night. Eight if holiday Henderson, Rush Smith, these guys are in the lineup. Westberg, who’s my favorite cowser, who’s not my least favorite, by the way. You know of all these players that there’s more of the good cows or than the bad cows are. There’s more of O’Hearn doing what he was doing. Mullins, being healthy. I mean, they are, dude, we thought they were a 91 win Team A month ago, like, I mean, it wasn’t that long ago that as comprised, we thought this could be good. And if they’re getting five innings out of Charlie Morton every fifth day, and Bradish really is maybe coming back, and they really could put together a deal to get another pitcher to put into this thing that which an F Lynn, somebody that would bolster them the rest of the way, to give them hope every fifth day to be a real pitcher and be on the team next year. And they sink money into it. But look, you and I have seen enough of Ortiz for burns towers and Norby for Roger. You know all of this sort of quad A motioning back and forth to say, what do we project our prospects to be? And the guys that are here are the guys that Elias like the best, right? I mean, you know, that’s it, like he’s got to hand pick his favorites and the ones that he wanted to get here, and the ones that had graduated Mayo curse that for better or worse, whether they failed or not, holiday failed last year, he’s back. He’s fine now, but getting all of these guys on track, that’s always been at the bottom of your mantra, and the top of everything you always say is, you know, they got all these one ones in first round draft picks, and they’re all hitters. None of them are pitchers, and they all need to hit. And if we get to swap one of them out, whether it’s cows or curse or whoever it is, to get another effluent, to get another pitcher, to get another guy that somebody else is trying to get rid of because they’re no good, they want to get rid of their money the way they got rid of Devers two weeks ago in Boston, I there’s a lot of players and a lot of money out there. And to your point, the Orioles don’t have a lot of dead we’re sitting here crying our hearts out about Tyler O’Neill. Hey, man, Diamondbacks are on the hook for $200 million with a guy who might not
Luke Jones 22:07
be able to pitch Well, and that’s why look for that to be their biggest move in the off season. Yeah, that’s where I’ll criticize the Tyler O’Neill deal. Were there other ways that you could have gone about addressing, replacing Anthony Santander, who, by the way, has not. There’s another one you could have added resigning Santander list. And not necessarily a mistake, but at least a year one not working out, not giving you a return, right? I mean, you never know, like I said, If Tyler O’Neill’s great the next two years, you’ll even look at this year and say, well, it really stunk in 25 but he was good the last two years. Or it’ll be a complete wash. Who knows, right? I mean, I’m not. I’m just speaking in hypotheticals. But it’s funny. I I pulled this up because it’s also it goes in line with what you were just saying about this team with all their young guys. Now that you know whether it’s a good cows or a bad version of cows, or it’s cows are on the field, right? Whether it’s good westburg or bad westburg, at times, it’s Westberg on the field. I mean, those guys weren’t even on the field. For most you know, cows are at all.
Nestor Aparicio 23:13
Let them be whatever 242, 5260 hitter they’re going to be, but let them be that, right, like they can’t develop, or let them fail if they’re cursed at her mayo, and just let him quack out, right? Yeah.
Luke Jones 23:23
And that’s, you know, that’s where I kind of am with mayo at this point. Like play him. He played one game in the in the four game series. Look, I’m not saying he has to play seven days a week, but at the same time, I’d like give him a chance to fail. And part of that was also he, I thought last Saturday and Sunday was maybe the best two games he’d put together, as far as his at bats, you know, at a multi hit game, he had an RBI double so, you know, anyway, but, but it’s funny, as we’re kind of thinking about this through the lens of the trade deadline, you know, Who is emerging, who, I don’t know if I’d say their best trade ship, but is really starting to look like he could be a trade ship for them. You know, Charlie Morton over his last 36 and two thirds innings, this is going back to late April. So, so even before the club started playing, he really stunk the first five stars. He was horrible the first six games. He had a 10 plus era since then, in 36 and two thirds innings, it’s 10 games now, there were a couple relief appearances in there mixed in. So I’ll fully acknowledge that he’s got a 3319, era. He’s averaging well over a strikeout per inning. I mean, he’s he’s pitched quite well for going on close to two months now. Now that’s not to forgive the first month. The first month was such a disaster, and that was a pretty significant part in the way this team started. I mean, they literally lost all six of his first starts, right? You know, his first six starts, they lost every single one right there, even if you flip a few of those games. Games and say, Okay, go three and three. This team’s a few games closer to 500 right now. Like even just that, taking throwing everything else out the window, let alone other
8Nestor Aparicio 25:10
first start in Toronto, he gave him a chance to win. The other games they had their chance
Luke Jones 25:13
to win. I mean, he even that start. He was, I mean, I remember, I remember leaving the ballpark and catch him back up with you. And I said, Man, he that could have been even worse. He wasn’t good. I mean, he just wasn’t, but he’s figured it out. And that’s not to say that he’s going to be this version of Charlie Morton the rest of the year. But you know, you look at the deal a little more differently now, from the standpoint of man, just what happened that first month? Because, again, it’s one of those, those situations where, even if he was just mediocre the first month, man, you’d be looking at that deal entirely differently. I mean, he’s already at a point now where he his era is, you know, it’s going where it had been. Is it under six yet? Yes, he’s got a 564, era, okay, which, again, I’m not throwing a parade for that meaning, like the whole body of work, but when you know what the era was in late April, that’s saying that the guy, they
Nestor Aparicio 26:09
never gave Cal Gibson a chance to get straightened out to people. Well, well, yeah, see,
Luke Jones 26:13
8but the difference with those two, as I said to you all along, and that’s why I think Morton himself was so con just baffled by this was the stuff was still there. I mean, the fastball below was fine. The movement on his pitches was fine. He just the curveball, which is his tent pole pitch. I mean, it’s what has made him Charlie Morton, the guy that’s pitched until age 41 over the second half of his career. Because, you know, even as recently as a couple years ago, and I would even say over the last month, I mean, that curveball is great. I mean, it is, you once again on Thursday night, another situation where a raise left handed hitter swings at a back foot curve ball that hits the guy, you know, it hit him in the foot and he swung at it. That speaks to the movement that that pitch has. So is he going to continue that? I hope he continues it, at least to the point where, if we’re going to talk in more realistic terms that the Orioles are more seller than buyer, come a month from now, I think Charlie Morton, let’s be clear, I’m not going to get a top 20 prospect or anything crazy, but you might be able to move them right, and you might actually get something that maybe helps you at some point in time. Or if they play better baseball over the next five weeks, and they’re in position to, at the very least, go for it, you know that they’re not giving up on being a wild card, then Charlie Martin might be a big factor into that who knows, but he is a perfect example of everything we’re talking about, with how bad it’s been, and even ranting about how awful Wednesday night was. It is a long season. It really is, and that’s where so much of this, whether we’re talking about decisions at the top, like is Mike Elias going to continue to be the general manager all the way down to you know, what’s going to happen with the your bench players or the back guys on your roster, or guys on your 40 man roster? What’s going to happen with the coaching staff? You know, do I think mancellina is going to get the job permanently? No, but if they make the playoffs, I think you’re going to look at it. Look at him differently than you did when he replaced Brandon Hyde and looked so far in over his head the first few days when he was talking to the media. So it’s a long season, and so much of this is just letting this play out, but you made mention of it, and I’ve said this over and over, at the end of the year, I care way more about all of their young core players, as many of them as possible, with the arrow pointing up again, I care about that much more than what those
Nestor Aparicio 28:50
are not winning the World Series,
Luke Jones 28:52
right and right? I mean, that’s, that’s how I kind of and look if they make the playoffs great, and maybe, maybe this would be the year they make the playoffs and they actually make it to the ALCS as an underdog
Nestor Aparicio 29:01
by August 15, Grayson Rodriguez is six strong, and Bradish is back in and Morton is still here. And cows are the player you think he can be, and Westberg is the player I think he can be, and rutchman has become the player everyone believed him to be, and Henderson is straight up. And you know what I mean? Maybe COVID Mayo looks like all of these guys on their best days. Mike Elias has gotten up every day as a genius. Just ask Him and believe that all of these guys and what their potential is and what their ceiling is, and you know who else has believed in it, everybody with an orange bird head on, and everybody in the Birdland club, because that’s what Melanie’s told him, and Rob’s told him, and Brett’s told him, and Palmer’s told him, and just on and on, all of these guys are going to be at least as good as BJ serhoff, if not Nick Mark ACUs, and they’re all going to and none of them are going to be Matt weeders, and none of them are going to really disappoint you. They’re all going to play to their number, whatever their number is, Henderson, that’s the Hall of Fame. Game in holiday that’s the Hall of Fame with ruchman. That’s the Hall of very good with Colton cowser. It’s the Hall of Gary renicky and John Lowenstein, right? So like thinking these guys are going to be a core Adam Jones, if any of these guys are as good as Adam Jones, that’s pretty good.
8Luke Jones 30:19
What’s that you do cartwheels. I mean, Adam Jones is a was a heck of a baseball player for a long
Nestor Aparicio 30:24
time. Any these guys stick around six years and you got to pay him real money or whatever. But you think all of them are going to stick around like they did for the cops for a minute? Not you. I’m just saying, if you’re Elias, you believe that you have pile divers. You believe this all along, from the minute you drafted them, from the minute you fell in love with Colton cows are down in Texas, from the minute you drafted Grayson, right? You believe in all of these guys. There still is a point in June as they go to Yankee Stadium where most of these guys are breathing it in the lineup, much more so than Corbin burns, right? Batista is back Brad. She’s on the pace. Rodriguez is wherever he’s going to be. And then you know, all the rest of these guys are in Richmond’s playing Henderson’s playing holidays blossoming, Westbrook’s back. Cows are there. Mayo’s in the lineup and healthy. So there is a point where you say, we can go win two out of three, Yankee stay when two out of three, or two out of three, and then beat a bad team, and we look up, we’re eight over 500 again, which would put us two under 500 and it’s the all star break. Go home, take a break. We’ll come back, and we’re not going to deal Charlie Morton away. We’re gonna, like, figure this out, or if you know, I mean, we’re gonna figure this out. And I don’t know that that’s me being optimistic after ripping into their ass on Wednesday. But that’s the stupidity of being optimistic about it, because I don’t the body of work here is not great. It
Luke Jones 31:45
isn’t, no, it’s not. I mean, there’s still 10 games under 500 right? I mean, you keep stepping back and you look and and that’s where it is frustrating. When you lose you drop a game like you did Wednesday night, where, I mean that those are the games that are so critical, right? I mean, they can’t afford to drop games they should win, right? They need to be winning games that you’d say, man, they stole that one. They had no business winning that one. They need to get some of those along the way, not be doing that. So again, it’s still such a long road to even talk about that scenario. But in the meantime, you like the fact that young guys are back and healthy. And, you know, Grayson Rodriguez is starting to throw bullpens this week. Kyle Bradish is on track to be back sometime, you know, mid August, late August, I don’t know, you know, and and Grayson Rodriguez at this point, even if all goes well with him. You’re talking all probably early August. I mean, he’s got to have a full ramp up, a full minor league rehab assignment, you know all that, because you still need there’s nothing about this season right now, as it’s constructed that says you’re going to take any unnecessary risk with those no rush at any of these guys. Exactly because, first of all, what’s Is there enough of an upside play that that it’s even going to work and and more importantly, you don’t want to, you don’t want any setbacks, right? Don’t get me wrong. I’m not Brad. He’s already had that. Well, I mean, I mean not, not. He’s had us no setbacks
Nestor Aparicio 33:13
8from Tommy John recovery. No, no, no. I’m saying he’s already been up and down once. Oh, sure, no. He thought he was back and he wasn’t. And that wasn’t right, and
Luke Jones 33:21
that, and that’s honest, honestly, that’s how it goes a lot of times. I mean, right? I mean, you try, you try to rehab a UCL injury. It does work sometimes.
Nestor Aparicio 33:30
But theory, but theory, rushing the guy a little, yeah, yeah. Well, and especially when the season’s on, you don’t rush guys in October, but once you get into May, like they were last year, they’re like, hey dude, you know we’re gonna pitch this year. Let’s go pitch. You know what I mean,
Luke Jones 33:43
so and what’s And what’s crazy about it. Go look at his numbers. He really, he pitched really well, you know? And part of it was, it was he, I think he threw the, yeah, it was against the Phillies when he got hurt, and then they shut him down for good, and he had Tommy John surgery. He threw the fastest pitch of his career that night. Now, you’re hoping, with the Tommy John surgery rehab that’s now gone on, but we’re about a year right now,
8Nestor Aparicio 34:08
Rush backs to make money too well, sure. I mean, I mean, they all
Luke Jones 34:13
pitch. Well, he also wants to pitch. And he and he was on 100 he was the ACE for a 101 win team the year before, and he wanted to pitch. I mean, I’m never gonna begrudge someone for for trying to do
Nestor Aparicio 34:24
that, right? I’m just saying the second time around, they might be a little slow down. He might want to be a little slower that. That’s a
Luke Jones 34:29
8question. And I would say this, whether they’re in it in August still, or they’ve sold off everything, I am looking at it through the lens with him, of if he is ready to, truly ready to pitch, and he’s checked every box, then, yeah, I’d love to see him make four starts in September, right? But if there’s any question, if there’s any hint of, ooh, I don’t know if we should push him right now, don’t
Nestor Aparicio 34:56
you? Don’t do it, send it to the Arizona fall League, yeah?
Luke Jones 34:58
Or, you know what? You. Send them to Sarasota. I mean, you know, it’s funny, they haven’t had their guys rehabbing in Sarasota because they’re, they’re building a, you know, new performance center down there. That’s why, that’s why everyone’s been rehabbing with them, you know, until they’re ready to go out on a rehab assignment. So it’s kind of been unique in that way. But, you know, with Bradish, I mean, whatever he’s going to look like at the end of the year. I mean, it’s all for me, that’s all about getting him to a point where he’s all systems go next. That’s
Nestor Aparicio 35:26
just organizational depth at this point. That’s just the guy. You talk about 25
8Luke Jones 35:31
for 2025 but I don’t think that way. About 2026 Oh, you think he’s in the rotation? Yeah, okay, why? Why wouldn’t you? But you’ve got to handle it the right way, right? You’ve got to trust the full process of a Tommy John rehab, you know,
Nestor Aparicio 35:44
see, so that’s one thing about I want to stop you for a minute, because right now I haven’t thought about their rotation next year as Rodriguez and Bradish are just in it. Now maybe they think that way. I haven’t thought out loud. Maybe just hearing you for a minute makes me think like, oh, you really believe that. So you believe their rotation next year with or without Eflin, with or without Suarez, I’m just throwing other Kramer, the other guys, you believe they’re already fortified in their minds, thinking we got two more major league arms in Rodriguez and Bradish, who will be a part of March next year that, you know, Mr. Rubenstein, these guys are going to be okay in their major league pitchers. They’re better than Charlie Morton on their best day, right? So, and we don’t have to pay them, they’re here. That’s a different way of thinking about it, and that’s the way we thought about it last Christmas, right? A little bit. And I don’t know, I don’t I think I’m not a believer in Rodriguez and Bradish right now, as their darts to me, they’re no longer I’m not penciling them in. But you
Luke Jones 36:52
said the same thing about Felix. And look at how he’s pitched this year. You know what I mean? Like, fair enough. So, so
Nestor Aparicio 36:58
8now I want to be surprised by that not count. Let me Oh, right,
Luke Jones 37:01
no. And, and there’s, here’s the caveat with that. First of all, I’m not I need to see Grayson Rodriguez pitch at some point the second half of the season and look like so, you know, because that we’re coming up on close to a calendar year since he’s pitched, right? I mean, it was late July when he made his last start last year. That’s a different that’s a little bit of a different animal right now, because you’re talking about someone who’s had these issues without reconstructive surgery of anything so like, Is he truly, truly healthy in Bradish case? Now, yeah, I’ll hear that there are exceptions, like John means, right? But the return rate for Tommy John surgery is very high at this point in time. I mean, it is so am I penciling him in for next year? Sure that said I am not thinking about that in a way of, oh, we don’t need an ace Kyle Bradish is back, right? You’re thinking about it. And in terms of, I have a high confidence level that he is going to be one of my five, and if he is right, I think he can be one of my top two or three. But that doesn’t mean that I don’t need to address my rotation in ways more meaningful than Jordan Lyles, Kyle Gibson, Charlie Morton, even Sugano right, because we didn’t know what Sugano was, and Sugano still doesn’t profile as an ace in in terms of stuff and the guy that’s going to go out and give you eight innings and strike out 10 guys and not be dependent on on good batted ball lock and all that. And I don’t say that to be disparaging of him, but he’s he’s much more of a guy that all things being equal, you’d love him to be like a mid rotation guy for you if you had a truly good starting rotation or back half, let’s say so. But I think it’s okay to look at Bradish through that lens, right? But hey, we’re still speaking in terms of, he’s got to get back and he’s got to show that he’s healthy. He’s got to show that his arm is right. He’s got to show that he’s got command and all that. So, you know, I think it’s okay to think in those terms. But no, you cannot fall into the trap of what happened this past off season when you know they were they were counting on Grayson Rodriguez to to kind of be that tent pole guy for them. And not only could he not answer the bell in terms of performance, he hasn’t even been able to make a start. And I don’t say that to beat them up. I’m empathetic of any of these pitchers who start having arm problems, but that’s why you need It’s why you need depth. That’s why this organization as a whole needs to start committing more resources to pitching not not just at the major league level. Mind you, I’m talking in terms of also how they draft and develop. I’m fine if you’re not going to draft pictures in the first round, but if you’re waiting to the the fifth, the sixth, the seventh, to make to take a pitcher for the first time in a draft, man, I mean, you’re gonna have to get really, really lucky to develop arms in your system then. So they’ve got to find them. Ground, and this is part of where I’ve talked about it, bringing it back to Mike Elias. You know, the need to recalibrate, right? You’ve got to figure out, not that, you know, I’m not discrediting everything he did, from the fall of 2018 until the end of June last year, when they were coming off of winning the division and having the best record in the Al, and looking like they might be the best team in the Al again, and everything is kind of falling apart since then. I’m not going to judge him solely on what’s happened since late June, but when you’re talking about a calendar year, year’s worth of time, where things have gone in the wrong direction in a lot of ways, you’ve got to recalibrate, right? You’ve got to make adjustments. You got to look at some of your process and say, Oh, that’s something we need to look at. That’s something we need to change, that’s something we need to throw out, because that’s not working for us. But it also speaks to you also had a lot of injuries and we and it brings it back to the position core, you know, you’re at a point now where let these guys play, right? I mean, going and see how it plays out. And yeah, they played a lot better over the last month. Is it going to be enough? Probably not. But in the meantime, you’re evaluating, you’re seeing what these guys look like. You’re seeing what how the trade market is going to develop, and they’re in a unique spot as buyers and sellers, potentially. But you know, I think you still need to look at it through the for me, it’s still the most pertinent. The most critical element is still getting those young guys all pointed in the right direction. You’re not going to are you going to get all of them pointed in the right direction? Probably not. I mean, Heston kerstad might be a lost cause at this point, not ready to give up on him, but he’s back in Norfolk and deserved to be back in Norfolk the way he had played the last two months. But if you can get as many of these guys pointed in the right direction, man, the off season feels a lot different. Next year feels a lot different, if you get at least a good number of these guys back on track and looking like the kind of players that we thought they were going to be. Then 26 feels a lot more optimistic than 25 feels at the moment and trying to trying to figure out what this is all going to look like moving forward. Luke
Nestor Aparicio 42:11
Jones will be monitoring baseball all weekend. We did a little turn with the Ravens. You want to go hear about gyre Alexander or DeAndre Hopkins. Luke was in Owings Mills all week. I was at the Y earlier this week. Why? Why not? I was in Randallstown. They had the pool. Why not? Why not have my swim trunks? Next time I go, the Maryland lottery has man on the road doing the Maryland crab cake tour. Will be at reader’s crab house in Reisterstown on Thursday the 26th lots and lots of dates ahead. We’ll have the Back to the Future scratch offs to give away our friends at curio wellness, now open in Pikesville, as well as Timonium and Elkton with FAR and daughter and our friends at Liberty, pure solutions, getting us out on the road, doing the Maryland crab cake tour, getting ready for the Fourth of July. Luke and I will be monitoring baseball Orioles back home next week, Tex ass Rangers. And also, you know, we got the we got games happening here, and the heat will be on down at Camden Yards, 300 degrees in the middle of next week. So make sure you get the air conditions working out there, and have a cool, cool weekend. He’s Luke, I’m Nestor. We are W, N, S T am 1570 Towson, Baltimore, and we never stop talking Oriole baseball, Baltimore, positive.
