He disappeared from Baltimore four decades ago to become a decorated Philadelphia Daily News sportswriter following in the footsteps of his father who was a Sports Illustrated legend, author Mark Kram Jr. admits his lifelong Orioles addiction to Nestor from the land of the first-place Phillies.
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
orioles, years, game, players, baltimore, sports, baseball, days, people, money, philadelphia, jim palmer, pitchers, week, wrote, mark, baseball team, media, columnist, team
SPEAKERS
Nestor J. Aparicio, Mark Kram Jr.
Nestor J. Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home we are W n s t test Baltimore and Baltimore positive we are positively into the summer months where, you know, we had a little respite during the all star break. I’ve talked to a lot of rock stars and business people. We’re doing a lot of politics as we get up onto the very, very important election. We’ll be scrolling folks so our friends at the Maryland lottery was sent us out with the Gold Rush sevens doublers on the Maryland crab cake tour. I will be at State Fair I have my state fair shirt on and Catonsville if you don’t know how to pronounce it, if you’re from out of town, Katyn still if you do be great and you want to to eight, we will have Angela also Brooks who was the Prince George’s County Executive running for Senate on the Democratic side against Larry Hogan. We’ve invited Governor Hogan also on the program. I don’t know when or where that’s going to happen, but I do know, we’ll be doing Angelo’s reports on the 13th also brought to you by our friends at Liberty pure solutions, keeping our water crystal clear, especially in my orange colored glass these days, as well as Jiffy Lube, multi care, putting Luke out on the road, putting us out on the road and powering us up with our folks at the Royal farms and these wise conversations that we have summer in baseball. My last name is Aparicio I’ve been at this for 25 Cupcakes about the become 26 years. Next week we’ve done 33 years now of baseball strike tall Cal Ripken tall Camden Yards talk let’s steal a football team like okay, we got a football team. Let’s win a championship oh my god, the owners of maniac for the baseball team like all this stuff has happened here do all of this and it’s not chronicled as much as maybe it used to be when great sports writers like Buster Olney and Tim Kurkjian and and the people that I worked with John step in in the 80s. And there were legendary characters that grew up in Baltimore went to other places. One of them I’m having a cheesesteak with on Friday named Victor already in Philadelphia, Joseph Joe steaks and Fishtown before seeing the great REO Speedwagon he Campton and people escaped even to Philadelphia and do things with their lives, especially when they have old men that were great sports writers as well. Mark Kram joins me from the city of brotherly love. We love them we hate them. I had Todd rate him on this week he’s living up in Fishtown they imported his sports logo dumb in I don’t know what it is like Baltimore’s one of those places if you’re a Peter Schmuck, you come here and you Scott Garcia calm you live. You put down roots you stay, Markram tell me what takes a soul out of Baltimore to fill and plants himself down. But we finally got a baseball team to talk about me now up mo for him.
Mark Kram Jr. 02:34
It’s just great. It’s just it’s great to see you again this year. It’s been a while. I’ll tell you it’s it’s been an exciting summer. It was an exciting summer last year. The Orioles are appointment TV for me, I’m there every night watching them. They’re exciting, interesting team. And I love their manager brand. And I I really think he He not only communicates well with his players, he communicates well with the media. You know, I grew up around well in my journalism career around Earl Weaver, and this guy is a totally different type.
Nestor J. Aparicio 03:18
What will give me your background, give us your background, I’m foggy on some of it. No other parts of the legend not only have you but your dad don’t want to feel it. But I don’t know how you escaped. And I’ll be really honest. I had Gerardi and man Dick and I are 40 year friends. And I finally like sort of talk because we’re always talking about the derby this week in the Preakness that week, whatever. You know, I bring him on. Now we’re old farts and we’re gonna go to the polestar one day and shoot hoops. You know, when I bring them on? And like how did you get there? What happened and you know, a lot of it is sort of the journalism business that jobs were gone. You had made a name for yourself here. We swam in the same circles I had Susan Ford off on a couple of weeks ago. I’m just sort of old school. And then this old news American sports first picture resurrected itself after the Death Race. Two weeks ago, you are in the bloodstream of me and other people and Jack Gibbons and other people, but I don’t know how you got where you got and where you got to, because I don’t know you nearly as well as I do some other.
Mark Kram Jr. 04:25
I grew up in Baltimore. My dad started as a columnist for The Sun sports columnist, and went on to Sports Illustrated 1964 and covered boxing. But did many dad
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:38
was a columnist at the Baltimore Sun when what period 59
Mark Kram Jr. 04:42
to 59 or 263.
Nestor J. Aparicio 04:47
So he covered the period before like Louis got here but Brooks was here. United said one he caught probably covered the championship or was in on that he
Mark Kram Jr. 04:56
did his own. It did sort of an offbeat sports calm so He wasn’t really firmly attached to the teams. But anyway, he went to Sports Illustrated covered the ALI Frazier fights and went on to write books. After that, I grew up in Baltimore, went to the University of Maryland. And then dropped out and got a job at the News America and they were hiring young people. And it was a chance for me to get some professional experience. And I spent four years there, and then basically,
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:29
what years those?
Mark Kram Jr. 05:30
What’s that?
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:31
What years were those?
Mark Kram Jr. 05:33
That was 19, fall of 1978 to early 1983. Now, in those days, a
Nestor J. Aparicio 05:41
man legendary people came through there, Russ Brown, right.
Mark Kram Jr. 05:46
He’s the sports editor. And the, you know, in those days, they were recruiting talent papers from around the country. And I had a competing offers from the Denver Post in the Detroit Free Press. And I went out there for a nice pay bump, and spent four years there. And then to me, the paper, one of the few papers in the country, that where you could really let your hair down and write was the Philadelphia Daily News. And I was able to get, you know, as a sports writing feature writing job at the Daily News and stayed there for 27 years. That kind of scenario is impossible today. You know, people don’t stay in jobs that long. But, you know, it speaks to the way that our society is fractured, that you can’t plant your feet, and have a career, have a family and basically live a productive life, you know. So anyway, that’s sort of the nutshell of what went on. I left the Daily News in 2013. And I wrote, well, at that time, I had written a book called like any normal day, which is about a young football player that broke his neck. And his how he spoke to me a he convinced his brother to to help him and his life at the hands of Dr. Kevorkian of all things is pretty dramatic story. And then I did a biography of Joe Frazier. So you and
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:24
I have discussed that long form people could find that out of Baltimore positive about your experience.
Mark Kram Jr. 07:28
Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Right. And that was that was well received. And right now I’m, you know, basically watching the Orioles every night. And I guess you could say I’m sort of semi retired. Well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 07:40
I’m, I’m gonna try a lot of things I want to talk to you about. And we’ll get to the baseball team. But I do want to hit on the news, American and our bloodlines and sort of, you know, the horses that came from the courses and how we were all taught by Bob passed in for me, and a lot of the same people that you know, rich Pietro passed away a couple of weeks ago. Oh, Daddy. Yeah, that we’re in this incredible picture. Rich’s son Dominic. You know, I’ve been friends with Pete forever. I took he took me out to buoy rent. He took me to my first racetrack and I got caught the form I got taught the form at the top of the Pimlico press box by Ekman Vinnie Perone at the post rich Pietro Chris Thomas used to have me written like Charlie lamb Ross paddock, hoard all those guys. My monkey claw McCall, your baby doll club. Oh, forget about it. Um, so? Yeah, so people that I have
Mark Kram Jr. 08:45
well, those days. Yeah, that was those were great days. You knows for a young person in their first reporting job. What a lot of fun that was you had all these old timers, you know, who were just just unbelievably colorful, and it was very much of we didn’t make any money. But it was. It was a it was a lot of glory mark there really was it was a great environment. I really love the and we had some really talent on that. On that news, Americans,
Nestor J. Aparicio 09:21
Samsung incubator for people like you and Bernie Nicholas and Jeff Gordon, and John Hawkins and Nestor Aparicio. And we’re on and on and on, right.
Mark Kram Jr. 09:32
And non sports. It was Mark Bowden, who wrote who wrote Black Hawk Down. He went on to the Enquirer and has written numerous books. Just John Farrell, who has been a biographer, he wrote a biography of Nixon and Clarence Darrow, people have gone on to do some substantial work. So it was really was they had an eye for talent. And it was a great place to Jack McCallum. We Don’t forget Jack McCallum was on those American sports staff covered the Colts. And really, I mean, Gila Breton was another guy went down to Texas. So we had a lot of talent to pass through there. And it was not to
Nestor J. Aparicio 10:17
mention competing with Clark judge and, and, you know, I guess Dan Shaughnessy was here for five minutes as well. Every time he comes on, he talks about Weaver and 7879. I mean, that was an incredible past rally. Right,
Mark Kram Jr. 10:29
Oscar Elia Jeter? Yeah, Peter, I mean, it just had a lot of talent. That was it was here. Ron Borgess, of course, went on to a substantial career at the Boston Globe. So but, you know, it’s, it feels like a million years ago is given how the media has evolved or devolved, depending upon your view of things. So, you know, it was a memorable time. That’s all I can say. When I walked in the news, American there were, you know, that the old AP machines that were clacking and you know, and you know, they’re, you know, ringing bells and stories were coming over to the teletype and I mean, it was really out of a out of a different it was right out of the front page, you know, you remember it
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:23
was hot metal type. They’re still when you were there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Opposing
Mark Kram Jr. 11:27
room. Yeah. And yet, you know, I’m in Detroit, when I went to Detroit, you had bookies working in the composing room. And it was just like, you know, all the all those days have passed away. Now. It’s just the it’s sad. You know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 11:47
like Kerouac and unrest, Thompson are left for us. Mark cram is here. He’s up in Philly, but don’t let that fool you. He spent a lifetime up there. And that’s why I’m glad that I got your story because that can bring the full color into your initial comparison of Brandon Hyde to Earl Weaver and your childhood and your old man, being a great sports writer, and then you become an one yourself and but there was such institutional knowledge in those rooms of sports writers. Oh, just I mean, I saw Lulu you know, Bob Clark in the back and I’m like, Oh, my God, he’s been there, people just forgot that you’ve forgotten more about sports than any and that’s where my DNA and people like you and I were, I can take a deep dive on how you’re feeling about the team, not from a fanboy perspective. But from a Hey, Mark, I got a gig for you. It’s become the columnist for Baltimore positive, come and write a column three days a week and to cover the team every day. There would be real criticism, real analysis, because of your background. That’s just impossible on Barstool Sports. It’s impossible in the modern era, but it’s something that I crave real analysis, and it’s something that I Yeah, so do I want a trading deadline week? You know, I want people that know all the aspects of the money, the finances, what these young prospects represent to an organization financially, especially a challenge when like the Orioles that’s going to probably continue to stay challenge given the new media and all that so for me my first thing with the Orioles this week and I’ll bring you to adult school on this Markram is here by the way, Philadelphia, all of this this week that Elias is doing and everything that Rubinstein can and will and must do to grow the team is about getting you to get your 13 game plan back start spending money with the team getting businesses to buy in. And you have seen this in Philadelphia, where that thing was a toilet 20 years ago they built the stadium they started the win and now they have this modern thing that’s even better than what they had at the vet 40 years ago when they had Pete Rose oh sure that they have a thing there that’s institution I was up in Wayne Pennsylvania for Tommy Conwell show. Everybody’s got Phillies gear on you know like it, it’s become a Phillies town until it’s an Eagles town but but you’ve seen it blossom and you love the Orioles and I love the Orioles. There there’s a lot of growth potential here.
Mark Kram Jr. 14:08
Right there is but there’s another side to that argument and that is the the ticket prices are just in I looked into getting some tickets to an upcoming Phillies series. I was astonished. They’re almost the cost as much as an Eagles ticket now, for a single baseball game. I mean, you know the dynamic pricing that they’re doing now, I understand that they have to squeeze every dime out of their product that they can but they’re there. But you know the stadiums are full. So you know they have they are successful and succeeding with this. But I just am astonished that people can afford these these prices for ballgames. It just seems to go up it is astronomical, you know,
Nestor J. Aparicio 15:01
it’s an expensive ticket in Philly. And that’s why all the Philly people came down here when we had Fleet Week a couple of weeks ago really took, I mean, I did my show at Coopers and it was all Phillies fans in there on that Friday. Yeah. And, and these were people spending real money. And I talked to Tom rate about this this week, he’s, these are people, these were grownups coming down, they were drinking, they were leaving money behind. And they were really enjoying being in Baltimore, these Philadelphia. And I’m thinking these are people that have fallen in love with baseball, and I saw that happen here with the football team or ever was the flavor of the month and everybody wanted to travel and everybody wanted to go baseball’s got a chance to be that again here. And it needs to be that in a town that has a lacrosse problem has a football problem has a Forbes not a Forbes uh, you know, top 500 businesses in America. We don’t have that we don’t have that sort of affluence here that I saw out. in Wayne, Pennsylvania, you know, so well, they there’s more money in Phillies in the race here. Well, they’ve
Mark Kram Jr. 15:56
got to Baltimore, they have to support the team that way, because they got some dynamic young talent that they’re going to have to pay for at some point soon. And to keep them in town. I mean, they’d be crazy if they ever let Gunnar, how to Anderson sign a contract with anybody else than the Orioles. I mean, they shouldn’t let him you know, out of their sight. And regimen to these are two generational type players, in my view. Now, they got some other problems that they got to address. And I think they’re aware of it there. At the moment, they’re fraying at the edges, it seems there. They had that run in June that just what was it 40 straight games or something, I think they blew, they blew up, they blew some tires. During that scratch, they lost three pitchers. And they lost three pitchers and they just don’t have enough pitching to, to hold this thing together. And the other thing too, is they got some position players and that that need some work Houser after that fabulous start. He had his been a has been a flop. He’s he’s, he strikes out way too much. You know, so they’re in an interesting position. You know, I don’t know that they’re gonna get a frontline pitcher, that they, you know, the Tigers pitcher are some of the other. I don’t think they’re going to cash in holiday at this point. I think they’d be crazy to. But
Nestor J. Aparicio 17:33
for mayo or besides, right, like,
Mark Kram Jr. 17:36
yeah, I wouldn’t cash in Mayo effect. I get Mayo up here to play. I don’t know what they’re holding back on him for
Nestor J. Aparicio 17:44
Oh, and this is where this week could mean mountcastle or haze or mods that they deal other players out to try to make room for curse that for cows? Or if they believe in him or deal him out? Or sow or I mean, do they have an outfield problem? And they have a pitching problem? And yeah, and that and that is, you know, Mark, I mean, I’ve been waiting 33 years to have the problem of they’re going to make the playoffs. Let’s just see how good they can be. Because I mean, we I’ve been on here 33 July’s and and ever. And I promise you that. And that speaks to the wildcard and all of that. But this is such a pivotal week at the trading deadline to do or not do or not do well. Last year on on SES, right and wind up getting burns. Right and but burns isn’t gonna be here next year unless they pay him a fortune. And I don’t think they will. And I don’t know. But they better figure out who the wrote me. Daystar is gonna be next year.
Mark Kram Jr. 18:38
Well, absolutely. And you know, I’ve heard mountcastle as they mentioned, in trades, I wouldn’t trade now counsel, I wouldn’t move him. He’s a he’s a very reliable hitter. Very, very tough hitter. You know, they got some real good bats in the lineup, but they’ve got some real holes as well. I mean, as I say, Couser Mullins has been off for him this year. You’re not You’re not going to get anything for Couser and Mullins. So they’re going to have to, to to move some of their lives, perhaps second tier prospects. I mean, they’ve got a farm system is loaded. So But interestingly, the pitching is just not I’ll make a bet I think they might be able to get Scherzer from Texas, I think they might be able to put a deal for serger but they’re not going to get the guy from Detroit or any of the other you know, frontline pitchers they talked about the price would just be too high.
Nestor J. Aparicio 19:41
Well and the price on young talent as we’ve learned here on the football side and we played with Lamar on the cheap and Joe after you speak in Philadelphia and you know the the other side of you know, Jersey over an ottoman, but you know there’s playing cheap and then there’s plan expensive and Ravens fans are gonna find that out with Lamar and Alan’s Trying to circle the talent and how do you pay Kyle Hamilton? How do you pay these other players? Baseball, no salary cap, but a real cap on how much money there is and a new owner who’s filthy wealthy and, you know, wants to win, but we’re gonna find out but from Elias his standpoint to say, Look, man, we’re gonna have to pay Henderson 40,000,004 years from now, we have to have some Jackson holidays and some Kobe Mayo’s make it and play on the cheap the way Westberg and Henderson and, and rutschman are right now. And I think they’re also at a point right now trying to figure out their revenue. All the baseball’s trying to figure out its revenue with this free. I mean, you’re in a weird spot, dude, you’re in Philadelphia, where things are just rosy and gray, one of eight spots that like the things really booming, and then there’s 10 spots, trying to figure it out. And then we’re playing games in Miami this week. And it’s like, they’ve never figured it out, even when they when they never, you know, so they have a thing they can figure out here in Baltimore, and I’m sensing this energy for the team. But I’m not sensing new fans or people going down there and laying a lot of money out remember,
Mark Kram Jr. 21:03
Nestor I remember when I was a kid, I was I went to Calvert Hall High School, and I’ve heard oil of Yeah, I was loyal a coward Hall. And I used to go to the games. You know, you look back at the beta or baseball retros. See, look how many people attended those games? You’d have Jim Palmer pitching against, I don’t know, Vita blue. And there would be 5000 people in the seats. It’s incredible. Well,
Nestor J. Aparicio 21:27
some of that as a kid as a nine year old. I wonder why Reggie didn’t sign here. And why stop Baylor playing there and what happened at the senseis. And, you know, like, all, you know, the angel sign guys, why can’t we? Well, I didn’t really realize this till I wrote about in the 90s. And this is an admission to Jack Gibbons, who once looked at me like this. When I sat in the office and I said, Jack, nobody cares about the business of sports, they care about the players. 19 year old Nestor 19 year old and Jack Gibbons offices, you know, on the fifth floor, and he looked at me with you know, and but that taught me that all of this is the business and that’s what led Bobby Grich out of town. It’s why my cousin never stuck in Chicago or Bob is always about money and pitching about money. When you’re a little Latin player and you’re selling tickets and you can’t get paid and there’s a reserve clause, you had to be chippy, like Steve Carlton was and with Augie Busch to get sent to Philadelphia, which was L so like that school baseball, new school baseball is Scott Boras, just waiting around to cash this thing in for two of the clients he has on the team here. And fans clamoring what you got to sign in Mr. Rubenstein, you
Mark Kram Jr. 22:36
got it. I gotta tell you a funny story. You might you might be aware of it. You might not. I just happened to cross this looking at some looking on the baseball retros sheet. In 1965. I think it was when the draft. The Orioles had I think the 33rd Pick. And the Reds had the 34th Pick. And the Orioles picked it with the 33rd pick. I think it was they picked a catcher from Dartmouth and a college player. And the with the next pick the Reds picked a high school player out of Oklahoma named Johnny Bench. So they missed out on Johnny Bench, right? Possibly because, you know, they wanted a guy who had some college experience and would be closer to the big leagues. But it kind of says well, if you’re willing to go take a gamble with a high school player who knows what they can be it can you imagine what that team would have been with Johnny Bench catching on those Oriole teams in 6970 71 they might have won five or six pennants more. You know, I mean, it would have been incredible you know I had no
Nestor J. Aparicio 23:58
lock on I had a leak click on then you can go check this out as well. He just wrote a book on Harry Dalton. Yeah, that would be you know, you’re always famous for your hits you know remembers the missus right you know, yeah, when you get a star player, but this Oriole run is uncanny. Right? And these guys go Astro system and the cardinal system and the analytic side and sigma del and what’s happening for for a dude like you mark to write a book on this to write the Astro ball, the modern Oriole ball as to how all of this happened, how John Angelo’s on Earth Mike Elias and it during a dinner with Eric the caster by the way, Eric, the caster was friends with Mike Elias through analytics and recommended to John Angelos that the Orioles that if they were going to do something they should look at this guy down in Houston. And what makes Elias in my Dell special in this department of identifying talent. Fun you can identify talents Syd thrift once told me he discovered aerobars but, but then it’s it. They say nurturing it, training it teaching it. Marvin Lewis once told me, we teach football players when I coaches, that’s all Bourgeois. We’re teachers, we’re, we’re, you know, we give them quizzes, and they answer the quiz on Sunday when they show up and do what they’re supposed to do. Baseball was so done, Zimmer and Schumann come and go see in your ERA and even puck show, Walter throws back all of that. And then I would sit with Tony Gwynn out in San Diego, when he had a little video machine analyzing everything, what the Orioles are doing to take players and make them better. It is an incredible story.
Mark Kram Jr. 25:45
It really Yeah. And they gotta as I said earlier, I think they got a great manager. You know, he’s got a lot more bandwidth than we’ve ever had. I’ve you what I mean by that is, Weaver was entertaining. He was instinctual. He was a great manager in his way. And he has the record to prove it. But Hi just handles things with such a shorthand, you know? He’s just, I can’t tell you how impressed I am with the guy and alias as well. I mean, there really is sharp organization. I’m really glad that they’re doing well. In Baltimore. One beef I do have with, with way baseball is being presented on television is this business of making players during the game itself. I never thought I’d live to see the day that they would do that. I remember a few weeks ago when they had a mic on the gutter Henderson. And on Sunday night game. I mean, they were asking them questions like, which of your teammates would you like to be stranded with on a desert island while he’s trying to play the game? While the pitches? I mean, he’s trying to concentrate on the game. You know, I think that it gives me the feeling that baseball will sell any piece of itself for a few extra bucks. You know, they went into gambling in a way that I thought was distasteful and troublesome. And as all sports are everybody around oh,
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:24
by the way, it didn’t take long did yeah. And
Mark Kram Jr. 27:26
they’ve got these they’ve got these T Rowe pet T Rowe Price patches on their shoulders. I mean, they look like NASCAR drivers these days. I mean, you know, that, since I, you know, grew up with the game and was very fond of it. I mean, it’s you had none of that stuff. But I guess the the economic pressure these teams are under is must be just immense.
Nestor J. Aparicio 27:51
Well, if T Rowe Price is giving them 10 $15 million, that doesn’t even buy a middle infielder. That’s right. It doesn’t even buy a number two starter like it’s it’s just an amazing amount of money that’s flowing around because of football at this point. And all of sports and media while these regional sports networks, I mean is Masson, an asset I add, it’s not an asset. It feels like a, you know, a ball and Shane and Angelo squeezed all the family squeezed all the money out of this. And now Mr. Rubenstein is coming in here. And he’s finding this cupboard full of great baseball players that one day they’ll have to pay and this broken media model, and this marketplace that quite frankly mark as a media member that’s been exiled for 18 years, and has been told to shut up by the new ownership and locked out. Well, my Caucasian employee has immediate past this weekend, and has to cover two teams. So I have immediate beef as a grown up about all of this. But yes, there is a point for Mr. Rubenstein coming in here that there’ll be no tough questions in the early days, but I want you to put your column this hat on and be a hard ass about things and really take a realistic view of how does this thing they might steal a championship this year next year, they might want a couple of times because they’re that good right now. But if they start paying players and they have to start filling up sky boxes, and they have to stop giving away $60 All you can come for a month packages and have what Philadelphia has, which is money to pay Bryce Harper in a lot of ways, right? But they had such a, the Angelo’s family torched the reputation of the brand here while the Ravens came in and stole everything. And Katie Griggs is coming in from the mariners on a you know, one of those internal hires and they’re bringing her in to fix she’s a fixer. She’s gonna fix this place. They’re gonna get an all star game here. They might want a couple of World Series. I do wonder, Mr. Rubenstein nobody is interviewed and nobody can find him given out hats dancing on the dog, then he he doesn’t sit down and I implore you as a political man, and I follow you on Facebook. So now I know who You’re not voting for this year, which good for you. Um, but go watch his act on MSNBC a couple of weeks ago. CNBC Squawk Box, yeah, it was on Squawk Box for eight and a half minutes where they he befriends both the President and the former president. The the insurrectionist. The lie? Yeah, he’s friends with both of them. And he’s down that used to be Democrat, but he’s not anymore. But he doesn’t do anything with politics. He tells you. Now, I have nothing to do with politics, although I’m friends with like all and then he says he bought the baseball team. So this is holding them accountable. This owner is in a honeymoon period. And he’ll never be interviewed never be heard from other than by his employees, no different than Angelo’s. And then he says, On Squawk Box, he said, Well, no one’s ever lost money buying a baseball team. It’s a great investment. This is his pitch to get more people to give him money to invest in it, which is why he was taking Cal Ripken ran a couple of weeks ago. And then he says, but I did this to be philanthropic. I mean, this is because I’m a great guy, and I’m a philanthropist. But of course, we’re here to make money. He said all of that in a sentence. And and this is a guy that’s never gonna sit and be interviewed by me or you or any legitimate journalist. And and he’s being he’s handled, he’s a billionaire. At some point, tough questions, come mark your column. Remember, the tough questions are going to come because it’s not going to just be as easy as steel in a championship. And the trade this week is going to be controversial one way or another because that’s baseball. That’s the way
Mark Kram Jr. 31:27
baseball I will say one thing about this, and you can read into what you want. Remember, Nestor, he is a creature of the hedge fund world. And that should tell you something, you know, if you do a little reading into that hole how the hedge funds have a stranglehold on America and in sports. You know, the owner the commander’s is now as a hedge fund, he owns the Sixers as well. You know, these guys?
32:08
They don’t have any immunity. Yeah,
Mark Kram Jr. 32:11
not every spirit of community,
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:13
not for the same reasons. Mr. hockberger was fighting to try to figure out how to get a million dollars to give the right to Jack.
Mark Kram Jr. 32:17
Right. Right. Right. So I think that in the enthusiasm that they have about the new ownership, I think that this part of it’s over being overlooked. And I think you what you’re seeing is the media. A more robust media would be looking at all of this, this aspect of his of his background,
Nestor J. Aparicio 32:40
a more robust media would chase Sean Angelo’s ragged, right, all those names we mentioned 40 years ago would have chased Angeles, especially after He shat upon Dan Connolly and pointed at him and demeaned him and all of us, but we can’t possibly know anything, but he’s going to open his books. And I mean, dude, we’re nine months away from Governor more standing there doing the PAP away that they had a deal that they didn’t have, like, there’s been so much bourgeois going on that the dancing on the dugout and given out hats and skirt and fans with Joe and Chad had and winning, quite frankly, winning has fumigated, all of the Angelo’s thing, except the part where they get your money, and that you know, people have to go back and, and literally like Big Papi with the hose, be willing to buy $15 beers and $80 tickets and the orange club and be down there 20 or 30 times a year and be able to afford it or have businesses that can afford it. There’s a lot of questions here that are legitimate after the Angelo’s debacle, despite the fact that it’s great because it’s great right now. But if this guy is going to cash out five years from now, and get an all star game and get a 600 million from the people into the stadium and then blow it out for 3.5 trillion or billion, whatever it would be a couple of years from now. The i He’s 74 years old, he’s not moving to Baltimore, like Tom Benson and running around with an umbrella and saving the city. I I don’t sense that at all. I sense that this is an ego baseball play and nothing more nothing as a columnist, and that’s okay. I mean, he’s already made the place better despite being here. It can’t be worse.
Mark Kram Jr. 34:17
Cheese, isn’t it? You know, baseball is still the greatest sport to me, between the white lines, everything outside the white lines. As to me. It’s very difficult to countenance some of it, a good bit of it, particularly the gambling part of it. I really find that to be how baseball and all sports have embraced gambling after being so vociferously opposed to it for so long and with good reason. And with good reason, of course, I mean this, this is ruinous to families. So you’re taking money out of one pocket for these for the high cost of attending a game By participating in the game that way, and you’re going to take money out of their other pocket that they use for groceries and, you know, keeping their families going. And, and putting the one of the most addictive things imaginable in front of them tying in this, the dopamine hit that you get from gambling into the motif of the game. It’s really really bad. It’s a terrible situation in my view.
Nestor J. Aparicio 35:32
And listen, you know, I work with Hollywood casino people that I’ve talked about and I tell people to do it responsibly if no one around here ever bet on baseball, it was this was not a as much as this was a baseball town I did sports radio 30 years I worked at the paper you mentioned guys gambling and at the at the paper in the composing room or whatever, nobody ever gambled on baseball, you know, so but but now it’s $5 on mountcastle, go to Home Run tonight attend to one or whatever. Like that’s almost like in the outfield, you and me and nine friends taking a player for $1 in a pool and play and I hear all of that. But the problem I have fundamentally about this where I put my column this hat on where Johnson channels through me enactment channels through me who referee these games and bet on him right? would be this Otani situation compromising players part of it you know, Pete Rose thing was bad guys were chasing him and Michael Jordan had a gambling addiction that always led to the rumors of he owed the wrong people the wrong kind of money. And how would that go down. But more than that, there is the point where if Mark and Nestor got together and decided to create a game and say we’re going to we’re going to open it up for people to gamble on it. We’re going to control the dice. The dealer’s the rules, the outcome literally they yes adjudicate the outcome of the bets that is a real problem. In any forget baseball, hockey to do any sport, black, white Mars earthiness, the solar system wherever you want. In that world, the government has really lost its mind to allow a modern day craps game that’s adjudicated, I mean, I have I pimped the lottery and John Martin comes on. The difference is John Martin doesn’t pick the winners, and no one there. You know what I mean? Like literally no one there is refereeing what’s a ball and a strike or a catcher, not a catch or a foul or not a foul that that moves games? And that’s the part that blows my mind. Is it that anybody else would go to government and the Internet and say, we’re going to open up this game that we’re going to make all the rules, and we’re going to decide who wins and loses? That’s insane. That’s an insane proposition. It really is. Well, yeah,
Mark Kram Jr. 37:36
it’s like it’s monetizing every aspect of it. I mean, it really is, it’s gotten absurd. Now, even with baseball cards, people spending 1000s, untold 1000s of dollars for baseball cards, as if they’re pieces of art, you know, and memorabilia, it seems like every aspect of sports has a price tag on it. And that, to me, that detracts from kind of the, the what’s the word?
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:06
The track liveness maybe the attractiveness
Mark Kram Jr. 38:09
of the, you know, just the simplicity of the games, you know, I mean, the games were not meant to be an engine for this economic, you know, growth I don’t think you know, it’s, but you know, what can I tell you it’s right, you still owe between the lines. I love the game. I love it. It’s it’s one of the great games outside of the lines. It’s you know, it’s you know, just there’s a lot of aspects as I’ve just discussed, that lead me very cold about the game.
Nestor J. Aparicio 38:50
Yeah. Cram is our guests. I want to reintroduce you for audience today’s came in on the radio. Mark’s a longtime sports writer, author in Philadelphia, but a Baltimore guy so your love of the Orioles every day is through the TV screen, you come down sometimes I see you with kids, family, friends, you just come down to once in a while you had a 13 game plan. I think maybe I did. Yes. During the really bad years. What are you doing down here watching? You know, real third base and you know,
Mark Kram Jr. 39:18
yeah, it was. It was not a good year. I mean, they’d be out of the game. I remember Wade vilely walked 12 batters in a game and you know, I just was furious watching these guys. So I bought the tickets in the wrong season. So
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:36
but what’s your engagement? Now you watch them every single night which is why I brought you on Yeah, you can discuss the Orioles with incredible fluids wife and
Mark Kram Jr. 39:43
I my wife and I watch it every every night. Yeah, it’s just that we talked about it over breakfast. What are they going to do? Well, you know, you know, it’s a source of great conversation with us. So I still
Nestor J. Aparicio 39:58
love it. You know, like you that way because it’s really it’s harder for me, given the discrimination that’s been shown right direction in regard to whether I’m a real journalist or not. I am. But But for you, and I see your Ali Frazier thing over your shoulder. And you know, cosell had his text card moment, famously and saying, This isn’t good. I’m getting to that point with football with head trauma and having been Oh, yeah. And seeing people I knew, and like the lot have happened with John Mackey happened here, and other players that are in the struggle that played for the Ravens many years ago, or have left us tragically. We lost Jacoby Jones last week at the age of 40. So I’m seeing this as a 55 year old guy in a different way. But I do see the romance of Gunnar Henderson singing Scooby songs, and Adley rutschman Being a leader and the end even though I’m locked out of it, I enjoy watching Ben McDonald call the games it’s great job, like and I know Benwell so like all of the removal of me probably makes me a better columnist. But there was a point where they’re pettiness and more than that they’re they’re just lack of integrity to answer hard questions and answer legitimate legitimate fan media business you took $600 million. So I have some staleness for all of it. But there is a point where I think of you with Frasier and thinking like we romance these boxers. All we romance these football players that got hit in the head, right. And we I had the great Jerry Eisenberg on I go, did you I call them the greatest living sports writer. You know, yeah, I’m one of Ali’s, you know, and you were one of Frazier’s insider, so was your dad. And, you know, he said to me, when he took a job back in the 60s, you know, Jerry is, he said, My, my boss told me don’t got him up, though. Golf got them up. Because I’ve been asking people like you what makes a great columnist, what makes a great and I think I’m trying to be that I aspired 55, that channel, all of you and all the great men that I’ve mentioned, and women that I’ve mentioned, Molly Donalyn, throw her in there. She’s my boss, to look great writer, great person, and channel that to cover this Rubinstein and this Lamar Jackson era when you’re being locked out. And you can’t ask the coach questions that he lied to you about if he could. So I’m trying to figure out the new way to cover this without being cynical or jaded. But being really realistic about what Baltimore is, what the economics of all of this are, and what their lack of transparency from what we used to choose. Well, when when guys are getting hit in the head and die. And I guess there’s really a humanity point of this that’s been lost in sports, I think in a big way. It
Mark Kram Jr. 42:55
has been I mean, back in the day, you had all the big papers had two and three colonists that would really be all over, be all over the subjects you’re talking about, and really held the teams and not just the teams and sports but politicians and what have you held them accountable for their actions and what have you. Now we’ve kind of migrated to this place where the players make so much money, the owners make so much money that they can afford to be exclusive, or, and just keep keep the media at bay. You know, you almost get the feeling that the media is kind of really hamstrung. They got to watch what they say when they say it when they can see the players or they’ll throw you out. Or they’ll throw Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I even had it towards the end of my career. I came down to Baltimore, what once and I was going to do a kind of a major piece on Jimmy key remember Jimmy key the pitcher? Sure. I mean, not a Hall of Famer, just a really good pitcher. And he said to me, how much time do you need it? I said, you know, whenever I get that question, I say, Well, you better keep it low and hope you can get more. I said, Oh, I don’t know, 10 minutes. And that was ridiculous. I needed more than that. And he said, Oh, 10 minutes. That’s a lot of time. You know, that’s where they feel like they can you know, in back in the day, they would sit with you, you know, and
Nestor J. Aparicio 44:34
Greg Olson would sit on the couch with me for an hour and a half in the middle of that clubhouse and tell me his story. And you know, if you wanted to hear Jimmy key story from Clemson to Toronto, and you know, like you just want to tell their story, and they’re not interested in having their story told him you know, I
Mark Kram Jr. 44:49
said because they don’t they don’t need you. They don’t need you. They don’t need you know, they’re so they’re in this such a bubble that you You know, I remember once the back in the 90s, I was one of the Cal Ripken for peace actually traveled to Minnesota to see him. And the first thing that it words out of his mouth were What’s your angle? I mean, what is he my editor? You know, I mean, I’ll tell you what. The fans just don’t know the other side of these players. Many of these many of these heroes that they they have. You mentioned Tony Gwynn. He was a rare exception. In my view, I mean, the guy who was just a wonderful, wonderful ambassador for baseball, and a great great player, a great hit heart. There’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 45:45
one Jersey I pulled all my jerseys out for raid him the other day, and write them away. Because it’s wrong time of the season. And I’m not wearing my polyester Oriole jersey and I’m not going down there anytime soon. But the the jersey that literally is out facing in my closet is Tony Gwynn and the night. Yeah, like Grantland. That’s, that’s the jury. That’s my favorite jersey.
Mark Kram Jr. 46:06
I mean, it’s like, you know, in basketball, Magic Johnson, he was a guy that always got it. You know, I went out to LA to for when I was in Detroit, to do an interview with Magic Johnson and I ended up spending three days with him. You know, he just sort of let me tag along to wherever, wherever you went and was at his house and this and that. I mean, these are rare exceptions, but they understand why why the media is there. Well, there’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 46:37
a point of just knowing how to treat people like your mother told you, right? There’s, you can say no, and be polite. You can say, you know, there’s a I’ve been, I’ve been rejected plenty of times happily. But there is a an arrogance. You said exclusivity. I’m going to call it arrogance. Eric that is and that all that being said, all that baked in, I don’t punish Adley rutschman or Jordan Westberg, or any of these guys in that circumstance. But that is the culture that’s been created. i You often talk about Chad’s deal with the ravens, and from the minute they get there, but it’s way in football. This starts with their high school coach, and then they’re special. And then Nick Saban tells them, we’re rat poison, and then their agent gets old, like by the time they get here these days, 30 years into this Raven’s thing. It’s a it’s a different world. And I would say that to anybody, and it’s a 55 year old I don’t want to be in any more. I’d rather be talking to Senator potential Senator Angela alsobrooks, about making the community better. And the baseball team to me used to stand for those things locally. And when Rubenstein bought the team I thought it would be more of a I would hoping it was more of a low I mean a shot he was a local player until he moved to Florida and it’s never around anymore. And that’s just an unfortunate part of sports and billionaires who buy to your point that hedge fund managers that buy these teams now more
Mark Kram Jr. 48:04
right right? Well, this Oreo group seems like a pretty good bunch of guys. I don’t know I don’t have any first first hand experience.
Nestor J. Aparicio 48:14
But I’d like to have my press credential back so I could find that out for myself. Yeah,
Mark Kram Jr. 48:19
well that’s that’s that’s ridiculous what they’ve done to you. That’s ridiculous. Well, that’s neither
Nestor J. Aparicio 48:24
here nor there for the team itself more cramped juniors are guests with Philadelphia for the team and for the trading deadline do you find this week to be that important? Because when I talked to Luke looks like if they win the World Series is going to be because of the guys they got not because of the guy they’re gonna get or the guys are gonna get they need bullpen help and eat starting help. What’s your as a fan? What’s your expectations? But you already said you don’t expect them to get screwable
Mark Kram Jr. 48:45
No, I don’t I don’t think they’ll get stonewalled the Tigers would be actually crazy to let them go. They got to control over for two more years. I I think that they’re well they’re taking a shot with this chance McDermott tonight. They’ve got Cade Povich down in the minor leagues. I expect both of them to be in Baltimore in September. I think they’re going to have to patch you know, patch go patch things up as they go along. I mean, they have an unfortunate situation. Where I mean, these pictures is this is kind of an aside, but these pictures are breaking down more than racetrack race racehorses these days. It’s astonishing. I think the sport has to look at itself. Really, every major pitcher that you can think of has had
Nestor J. Aparicio 49:39
Tommy John surgery, spin rate, max effort and risk doing things they shouldn’t do. That’s right.
Mark Kram Jr. 49:44
But that to me is they’re not doing they’re not doing right by these pitchers, these young men that come into the game. The pitching is not being taught properly, in my view, and you’re Marketing this 100 mile an hour fastball the same way that they marketed, the home run back in the late 90s. The steroid fueled homerun raises this 100 mile an hour fastball is to the detriment of the players, the players arms. You know, they’re losing pitchers. There’s no reason the Orioles should have three pitchers down at this point with Tommy John for tape Batista throw him in there. Yeah, but tasto and is Bradish. And means and who’s the other one? Wells? Wells, of course. Well, I mean, that’s absurd. I mean, I think baseball has to take a real hard look at itself. You know, I mean, you had pitchers workhorses in the 60s and 70s. Guys that would pitch 300 innings, and would do it year after year. I keep waiting for Jim Palmer to to really address this, this situation. I mean, he alludes to it. But I mean that I’ve never interviewed
Nestor J. Aparicio 51:02
Jim Palmer. He’s never been allowed to speak to me and then decided not to so like, to your point, this is the stuff I would talk to Jim Palmer about this is what I want to hear Jim Palmer talk about.
Mark Kram Jr. 51:11
That’s right. I mean, the idea was the guy was a workhorse. And he had arm trouble early in his career. He had problems. And
Nestor J. Aparicio 51:20
he saw the Dow kowski and the other guys go to the wayside, right? Sure. So guys drink themselves out of the big leagues to hurt themselves out of the big leagues, not take care of their body. And you know, he’s trying to mount that comeback back in 88. For crying out loud enough. Yeah, well, he
Mark Kram Jr. 51:34
was like a guy that the he had 820 game seasons, three Cy Young awards. He’s
Nestor J. Aparicio 51:41
the greatest Oriole of all time. Like I’ve said, all respect to Brooks and Kalin at anybody want. But there’s nobody that’s ever been better than Jim Palmer.
Mark Kram Jr. 51:50
What is 5050 or 60 is 60 shutouts stuff when you look
Nestor J. Aparicio 51:54
at the back of his baseball card. It’s absurd. Even when you put it next to Kofax or Gibson or, or Seaver or any of the rest of Mark, I gotta wrap things up with you I hate because I got a window here and I got other phenomenal guests like Mark cram Jr. Joining us here. Formerly the Philadelphia Daily News. You know, one day I’m just going to have you on we’re just going to talk old newspaper crap because that’s what I love talking about. And you could tell me some old Phil Jasnah stories and we could talk about a young Stephen A and you can do all of that Philadelphia stuff with me. We can even compare best to cheese steaks and pretzels like I do with Charlie, but come by more often. Let’s talk a little bit more baseball. I love having you on I love loads that you bring. And we pick your book. Of course anybody out there that wants to learn more about the Fraser Ali thing from a fascinating perspective. Your book certainly portrayed a I mean, you’re a hell of a writer, man and just really deep dive into what you saw in front of you in Philadelphia.
Mark Kram Jr. 52:48
Right? Well look, say hi to dec when you see him Friday. Maybe
Nestor J. Aparicio 52:51
I’ll have you join us for some cheese steaks over there. Before that train concert over candidate Mark grant Jr. Defending champion. And his dad was as well here in Baltimore in a columnist and I’m trying to be a column nests out of Baltimore positive.
Mark Kram Jr. 53:06
Stay with us. All right.
