As the losses mount and problems arise daily for the Baltimore Orioles, Luke Jones and Nestor discuss what possible changes could be coming for this disappointing and under-performing squad – and what it means to the big picture of growth for new ownership amidst turmoil on the field.
Nestor Aparicio and Luke Jones discussed the Orioles’ poor performance, noting a four-game losing streak and a 22nd ranking in runs per game. They criticized the hitting coaches, citing only Jackson Holiday as a positive performer. The team is 9 games under .500 with a -66 run differential. They debated potential changes, including firing hitting coaches and considering new voices. They highlighted the need for better performance from young players like Adley Rutschman and Gunnar Henderson. The conversation also touched on the broader issues of ownership, management, and the overall direction of the franchise.
SPEAKERS
Luke Jones, Nestor Aparicio
Nestor Aparicio 00:01
Welcome home. We are W, N, S T. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We are Baltimore. Positive. Always hoping you’re setting a spot on your radio dial. I see the traffic’s a little bit more out on 695, you know how I know that I was in White Marsh on Wednesday for the Maryland crab cake tour. All of it brought to you by our friends at the Maryland lottery had the Back to the Future scratch on future. Scratch offs had just the greatest conversation ever with Bill blocker had a beer, little beer. It wasn’t a big one. And Katie, his daughter, and was just a beautiful day. Nick Stewart, who was running for Baltimore County Executive, came on to talk about all sorts of really important Baltimore County things. If you live in Owings Mills, you live in Catonsville, Dundalk, Middle River, Essex, White Marsh, wherever. Parkville, wherever it may be and wherever you may be. I left red brick station. I said, Ah, you know, oh, real baseball, and they’re playing in Minnesota. My My dear friend Russ letra, was at the ballpark on Tuesday night, bringing the Orioles No luck, seeing three hits and 17 strikeouts it I felt like it had to get better. It was competitive for a while. Luke got I, you know, I don’t know where we go with this, but this is once you start losing. They’ve they’ve caught the bug, and it’s hard to stop losing. Man, yeah.
Luke Jones 01:19
I mean, they’re spiraling. I mean, there’s no other way to put it. I mean, they’ve lost four in a row. This is a bad baseball team. We’ve said it over and over and over. And, you know, Mike Elias has done multiple interviews now where he’s given the vote of confidence for Brandon Hyde and and look, I mean, this all starts with Mike Elias. I mean, he he’s the one most responsible for what’s going on right now. But I don’t know how you look at this club right now. And you know, even if you’re not going to change the manager, I don’t know how you’re not looking at your three hitting coaches and the fact that you’re 22nd in runs per game with a team that was supposed to be really good in that department. I mean, the pitching, as I’ve said, is the proverbial D student that’s getting F’s right. I mean, we expected the pitching to not be very good, and it’s been horrible. And we know how many pitchers are on the injured list, but I’m sorry. I mean, I can’t continue to look at this offense night after night and say that this is remotely acceptable. I mean, you have three hitting coaches, and out of all your young players, you know the young core, there’s exactly one with the arrow pointing up right now. It’s Jackson holiday. Everyone else is either plateaued or never proven themselves or regressed. I mean, that’s what we’re talking about here. So, I mean, I don’t know, man. I mean, they’re nine games under 500 they’ve got a minus 66 run differential. What more proof do you need to shake things up on some level? And you know me, I’m not someone who’s going to casually start throwing out names of guys losing their jobs. But they’re not
Nestor Aparicio 02:58
firing Adley rutschman. They’re not firing gunner Henderson. They’re not firing Jackson holiday. They might fire Charlie Morton, you know, I don’t know, right? They just hired Kyle Gibson. So I they just hired Charlie Morton, you know, like we’re five weeks into the season here, six weeks into the season, I don’t I mean, if you want to shake things up, I mean, there’s nothing Kade Pope which is pitching, right? I mean, like, you know, I don’t Kyle Kyle Gibson is pitching. They’re spent, they’ve spent more of Mr. Rubenstein’s money, and now Mr. Rubenstein’s like, whoa, hold on. Wait. Trading prospects, there’ll be no Connor Norby and Kyle Stowers deals outbound. Now I, you know, you’ll start thinking about this mount castle. Have any, you know, valued anybody else, I’m just saying, and I don’t know that won’t be the case, because he’s into whatever one night, night, you know, Mendoza, whatever it is, dude, this is stuff to talk about every day. It’s not what I want to be talking about as much as Katie Griggs may think that I like, we put a season together. I get a flight for you and me out to San Diego, in like San Francisco, to see oleo Labor Day. I thought, yeah, well, Luke and I, we had a good time in Toronto. Well, one of us did, oh, I had to blister and but I, you know, this is like baseball’s on again. Angelos is dead, right? I mean, team’s good. We have all these great picks. We have all these great players. This is, I mean, we’re not going to stop speaking about it every day. We’re not going to stop covering it every day. We’re not going to stop opining on it. But, man, I there have been some dark times here over 34 years where it just it wasn’t worth discussing in April, let alone discussing in May. And I don’t know what June holds because, like, this is a really, really, really bad season right now, and it feels like a television show I turn off a book I’d stop reading.
Luke Jones 04:50
Yeah, and unlike so many of those seasons, I mean, so many of those seasons were dead on arrival, right? I mean, so many of those seasons never had
Nestor Aparicio 04:58
expectations. Most of it. I mean, most of it for somebody your age, really, sure, but,
Luke Jones 05:02
but, but even say 2008 I’ve used 2018 as my only point of comparison, because really, nothing else really compares in 1998
Nestor Aparicio 05:14
1998 Yeah, you know, because in 97 I that’s, you know, I thought, sure too. And then I also thought, when Palmeiro was here and they had that 190 day stretch with Hargrove, 1005 right? I mean, they were like, there was hope. I mean, people were like, in 2000 people, like, Hey, this is the surprise season where they’re good. We didn’t think they were going to be good, but they were better than we thought they were for 90 days. I mean, dude, we’re going back 35 years, or I’ve been on the radio, and we’re handing out two or three at seasons where maybe there was some hope, but nothing like this, dude, nothing like this. I remember sitting over Planet Fitness last year with my wife, and I said to her, this is the best team they’ve ever had. It was this time last year. It was May after the Preakness, but before one pratish came back and like it looked like these guys were going to be okay, I said to Herman Omar, and they were bringing holiday up at that point, maybe he could be like this, right? I said, this is as good as it gets. And now I’m here 12 months later, like everybody else. I mean, I’m perplexed the injury bug and all of that, but just players that are supposed to be on one kind of trajectory, and they turn out to be, and I’m not pissing on Matt leaders, I’m not even pissing on Nick marques or whatever, but they just wind up being good, you know, good. And somebody has to be great. Somebody needs to be Eddie Murray. Somebody needs to be Cal Ripken, you know, hey, you need to buy your Jimmy keys and your you know you’re not growing your mike Messina. You’re not growing your BEN McDonald’s and, and there’s a great example back in the 80s, you stink. You lose all these games. You draft a picture, right? I mean, they drifted Ben McDonald they don’t do that anymore. And this is what happens when you have no pitching in the pitching you have in the pitching you bought doesn’t work out. I mean, it is like spoilt milk, as we’d say in Dundalk. I
Luke Jones 07:07
mean, sure, the pitching stinks. What about the offense? I mean, this is what it’s built on. Man, like that. You know, you keep talking about the pitching, and look, I get it right. I mean, they’re 28th and er, or runs aloud per game? Charlie Morton, well, it’s like a cloudy
Nestor Aparicio 07:23
day. It’s demoralizing when you don’t have pitching for the hitters too, and it’s no excuse. But when you’re when you’re losing seven at two or whatever, that wasn’t
Luke Jones 07:32
the case. You’re using examples
Nestor Aparicio 07:34
that don’t apply to Wednesday, Tuesday night. That wasn’t Wednesday. Yeah,
07:37
yeah. I mean,
Nestor Aparicio 07:41
I’m reverting to comedy, just so you know, I understand. I’m doing Mickey
Luke Jones 07:46
funny. I can look the pitching. If you had told me in the third week of March that they’d be 28th in and I’m looking at runs allowed per game right now, which, which, obviously
Nestor Aparicio 07:59
they’re 20 something. If you had told me that,
Luke Jones 08:03
I would say, Oh, wow, it’s probably not going as well as they’d like it to go. But I can’t say I’m stunned by that. They’re 22nd and run scored per game that I’m very surprised by at some point. I mean, that’s what, that’s what your entire rebuild was based on. Was drafting all these hitters and developing all these guys. And like I said, Jackson holiday is the only one of that group that’s trending upward right now. I mean, Adley rutschman batting 212 gunner Henderson has looked painfully ordinary. Pest and curse dad’s gotten this golden opportunity to play with Colton cows are on the IO and obviously Colton cows are being out. Has not helped. I’ll acknowledge that they’ve had injuries. We’ve all acknowledged injuries. That’s why I wouldn’t expect this team to be 22 and 13 right away.
Nestor Aparicio 08:50
Dude, spot on with you on Tuesday night’s broadcast of the previous loss, saying, hey, West Berg’s not here and cows is not here, but curse, that’s here and Mayo’s here, and they wouldn’t be here if, you know, like, this is opportunity, and you know this would be Connor Norby would be stepping in, or Kyle Stowers, if they still were here, they’re not. They bought it, tried to buy a picture, and, you know, the deadline. So, mean, you trade one bag of donuts for another bag of bagels. But I’m with you, dude, like, if Cody Mayo is going to be a ball player, let’s go, Dude, you’re not 19. None of these guys are 19. Watchman now has a season of ick,
Luke Jones 09:29
yeah, yeah. I mean, I just so, so for me, if you’re not going to make a change to your coaching staff, and look, I’m not sitting here blaming Cody ashy and the two other hitting coaches exclusively, right? You know me, I’m not, I’m not someone that’s just going to give the players all the glory when things are going well and just, you know what, all over the coaches when things going bad. I mean, it’s one of the things I really dislike about sports fandom in the modern age, is that mindset that it’s always the coaches or someone else or the appreciate.
Nestor Aparicio 09:59
Take phone calls on this dude. I mean, I couldn’t do it the first time around. It’s both.
Luke Jones 10:03
It’s both. But to your point, you’re not going to fire Adley rodsman, you’re not going to fire gun or Henderson. You’re not going to fire all your young players. Because, you know, I mean that that would be completely irrational. But at the same time, what is Cody ashy and Sherman Johnson and Tommy Joseph bringing to the table right now. And if you want to get and look that, to me, is the kind of the bare minimum thing you have to be looking at at this point. That’s not to say that if someone said they need to move on from their manager and fire brand and hide and bring in an interim or promote Buck Britain and see if that sparks anything here, I’m fine with I’m fine with any of these options, right? Everything has to be on the table at this point, because that’s how bad this is. At this point, there’s this team, in terms of what we’ve actually seen manifest on the field, has shown no redeeming qualities whatsoever. There have been a few players that have played well, few individuals like Ryan O’Hearn, Cedric Mullins until the last two weeks, but still, overall, having a good season. You know what?
Nestor Aparicio 11:06
Baker, have been okay? Sure, sure. It’s been okay.
Luke Jones 11:12
Gave up a home run on Wednesday night, but, but, yeah, but, but overall, there is no phase of this baseball team that’s playing well. The starting rotation is a disaster. The bullpen, over the last two and a half weeks, after a pretty good start, has been lousy. The hitting is poor, the defense is poor, the base running is at best. Man,
Nestor Aparicio 11:33
situational head. He throw that in. I mean,
Luke Jones 11:35
the situation. Man, don’t even get me started on the situation, situational hitting, or how they’re playing against left handed pitching, but to me, the minimum and and I’ll give you a couple examples, and I think I’ve mentioned this to you. I mean, we have so many of these conversations. They all run together. But, you know, made mention of Matt Holliday and him helping out Jackson holiday with a recent adjustment that’s really allowed him to start hitting. And by the way,
Nestor Aparicio 12:01
mass has done a nice job with that sure the bat and showing it all and having Palmer explain it, which is awesome, sure, and
Luke Jones 12:07
I’ve said it tongue in cheek, maybe they should make Matt Holliday their hitting coach. But I’ve used a couple examples with you. I’ve cited a couple examples of the Seattle Mariners who were and still are, an analytics minded organization with Jerry de poto and they brought in Edgar Martinez. Late last summer, they started hitting better. They narrowly missed the playoffs and go, Look, they’ve been one of the one of the better offenses in baseball this year with largely not like this drastic change in personnel in terms of their lineup, the Texas Rangers, just, you know they are. They’re hitting coach from their World Series team departed in the off season. They replaced them. Didn’t work out. They fired him. They brought in Bret Boone. Now I have no idea if that’s going to work out. Let’s be clear. I don’t I’m not suggesting what
Nestor Aparicio 12:58
makes a good hitting coach, right? You know what I mean. I’m not around the game like that. But I knew Rick down really well. I knew Greg B Genie really well. My dad was very, very Ted Williams, science of hitting, you know, nine quad, you know, like the whole deal. So I like talking ball with those guys at a cage was unbelievable in regard to hit. I mean, I talked to Walt riniak back, you know, like when he was the hitting coach of the the White Sox, he come in here, old gruff dude, and, you know, just all of it, but like the modern part of this, and the disconnect between what Terry Crowley, right, who, I’ll see him three weeks from now, up at Green Mountain station having a crab cake, what Terry Crowley would say about hitting, and what some 27 year old kid that looks like he doesn’t shave, who’s the hitting coach? Has all this science and all the magic and all the analytics and all the, you know, probably AI in regard to swing, and in regard to everything I’ve seen golf games as well, but they’re also secretive about it. I mean, you, you have the breast potential. You tell me, I don’t know that they ever give a dissertation on this, other than on MLB Network. When they go behind the scenes, or a team would go behind the scenes and talk to somebody, but there feels like if I went back, I wouldn’t recognize it. Or am I wrong? Um,
Luke Jones 14:18
I mean, certain elements, yeah. I mean, obviously these teams use much more technology, much more data, but, you know, and in fairness, I want to point this out. Cody Ashley did play in the majors. Tommy Joseph did play in the majors. I mean, these aren’t, you know, these aren’t just Ivy League, like nerds that never played professional baseball. Thank you, however, yeah, I just want to point it out, because I want to be fair here, especially when I’m kind of drilling down on the hitting coaches. Because, well, you know, we could talk about that. We could talk about drew French next. We could talk about Brandon Hyde again, dude. Yesterday,
Nestor Aparicio 14:49
we talked about Cal Ripken running the franchise, right? Like, sure, and let me just say this. I’ll let you get into your thing. But for 30 years here, when anybody would call, when little Luke would call, in 99 United said, what’s going on with my Orioles? And it was always the owner. I mean, honestly, like, I look back through all of it and say, was the owner? I mean, like, it wasn’t Mike Hargrove or Mike Flanagan or Jim Beatty or Sid three. It was just poor ownership. I don’t look the owners got a bobble head. They’re 10 games under 500 everybody wants everybody hung right now. Like, we’re talking about the hitting coaches specifically right now we’re gonna, we can go through all of it, but, like, I can’t blame it on Rubenstein right now. Now it does come down to, hey, we’re gonna talk about all of this all of a sudden. Sure, we didn’t talk about managerial decisions when Juan Sam, well, and Dave Trembley and Sam prolazo were running the team because the owner stunk, and everybody knew it for 30 years. But now we got a real this is a real story. This is a real situation where they have all these talented players and they can’t even figure out how to hit. Hitters can’t figure out how to hit so I just want to leave it at that. But I just, I wanted to pile on and what we talked about eight minutes ago, sure,
Luke Jones 15:58
sure. And again, this isn’t when we’re talking about the hitting coaches. This isn’t anyone suggesting that’s the only problem. There are multiple problems. There are multiple layers to this. Part of it is, yeah, they’ve been injured, but you’re at a point where you’re playing such poor baseball that even as Zach Eflin is going to return this weekend in Anaheim, they’ve already confirmed that even as Tyler O’Neill has played a couple games in Norfolk is and is expected to rejoin the team in Anaheim. Jordan westburg Shouldn’t be too much longer after that. He’s already working out at Norfolk. Should be starting a rehab assignment, but they’ve played so poorly that I’ve already talked about this. I mean, just to be in a position to win 87 or 88 games, which may or may not be good enough for a wild card. I mean, they’ve got to play like a 95 win team the rest of the way. I mean, does any, even if they start hitting, does anyone really expect them to be able to do that with the state of their pitching and Okay, Eflin coming back some major win, right? That’s, that’s a major win, but he’s one guy. He’s not three or four guys. So, so, but to bring it back to the hitting, I mentioned Cody, ashy, Sherman Johnson, both promoted from within. Tommy Joseph was hired away from Seattle. As I mentioned, Seattle made changes late last season. Started to hit better, but it was clear they were going in a different direction. But you look at these coaches, and I actually heard a great conversation about this on MLB now, on MLB Network on Tuesday or Wednesday, and they were kind of getting into this, you know, they’re talking about Edgar Martinez, who had never been a hitting coach, but obviously knowing his craft, but also carrying so much clout right, carrying so much really meaningful experience as a guy, won batting titles, and, you know, had amazing numbers and all of that, in terms of, you know, talking about a Hall of Fame hitter, coming into a coaching staff, coming into an organization that, yeah, still looks, has analytics and all of that, but now you maybe you’re looking a little more on the human element, psychological side of things, to inspire better performance. Again, the Rangers, you know, they just hired Brett Boone. I don’t know if that’s going to work out, but I will say this. I mean, the Texas Rangers are two years removed from winning a World Series, and they just made a change of that nature. Now it wasn’t their hitting coach who was their hitting coach when they won the World Series Two years ago. He had left in the off season. Think he’s with Atlanta now. But the point is, if you’re not going to make any change here, like, What message are you trying to send? Either you think everything’s right and you’re just unlucky, which? Look, there’s been an element of bad luck. You know, again, you look at the batted ball data for the Orioles would probably indicate, not, probably would indicate that they’ve hidden to some tough luck in some situations. But at some point, production has to matter. At some point you can’t just keep looking at expected stats for months and weeks and all of that and say, Oh, well, we’re fine. So you tell me, then that either you think your coaches are doing a great job and then the players are the problem, which, if that’s the issue, then, boy, this team has way bigger problems than 2025 let’s put it that way. But if it’s a case of maybe you need to make some change. And this isn’t me sitting here saying that I think Cody Ashley Sherman Johnson and Tommy Joseph are incompetent and should never work in baseball again. That’s not at all what I’m saying. Sometimes you just have to make changes. Sometimes you just need to bring in a new voice. Sometimes you need to shake things up. Sometimes you need to pivot. Sometimes you need to be introspective and realize, look, maybe we’re not quite as smart as we all thought we were as a baseball operations, as a front office as a coaching staff and make some changes. Is that going to make everything 100% better? No, probably not. I’d say that probably less likely than more likely that it drastically improves things. But at the same time to your point, especially when you’re looking at the schedule. And ownerships looking at this from a big picture standpoint of attendance and fan interest and your brand and selling mass and plus subscriptions and all those different things. And that’s not me saying David Rubenstein should be calling Mike Elias said fire the hitting coach. That’s not what I’m saying. But if everyone’s looking at this in a big picture sense, are you really just going to continue to just bang your head against the wall and hope the results change? Or are you going to make some changes here? And if you’re going to make changes, there are only a few things you can do in season. There are only a few things you can do while you’re in the midst of, you know, the storm, and that’s the coaching staff. And again, you know, I’ll hear Brandon Hyde, right? I mean, but because at this point, what is going so well? Where you say, man, we, we don’t want to lose that guy. I mean, who, who can the hidden coaches point to right now as a success story? You know, Ryan o’hearns Having a good year Ryan o’hern’s been pretty good the last few years, though, you know Jackson holiday, but how much of that is what they’re doing or what his father looked at? Because his father is a borderline Hall of very good player, at least. But you know, I just look at this and again, people listening right now, that’s not to say that I’m happy with the job drew French or the assistant pitching coach. Have done either. But we didn’t really have high expectations for the pitching staff. We had very high expectations for this hitting, you know, this lineup, this group of young position players, and they’re wildly underperforming at this point in time. I mean, I’ve said it. I’ve used the analogy, the pitching is the D student that’s getting F’s right now. The hitting is someone you thought was an honors kid, and he’s got a D plus average at this point. Which one is more alarming to you? I think it’s the latter. Other people can continue to dwell on the pitching, and that’s fine, too. The pitching is unacceptable, let’s be clear. But I put way more of that on Mike Elias to begin with, and certainly their injuries have been, you know, much more stacked up on that side of the ball. But, I mean, I just we can keep watching the same thing over and over and over and hope that it’s going to get better. But we’ve kind of been saying that since last July, haven’t we? I mean, that’s and that’s where this is even more frustrating, because it’s on the heels of what happened in the second half last year. But it’s not getting better, it’s getting worse. And that’s where you look at this thing and say, How are you not taking a long look at this and saying that you need to make some changes? You know some coaches. You know coaching tweaks at the very least, heck, if you’re so determined, you don’t want to fire someone and make someone a scapegoat, just bring another person in then, right? Bring someone in and and you reshuffle responsibilities a little bit. You know that it’s kind of a cop out way of doing it, really, if you want to, right? But, I mean, I’ll take anything at this point to show that there’s an awareness here, that there, that there’s a major problem, and that this team, even with some of the things that they can’t control, like injuries, is still performing to, you know, underperforming to an unacceptable degree. Luke
Nestor Aparicio 23:12
Jones, spitting facts and truth, the Orioles play an early game on Thursday afternoon, back at it, late at night on Friday, late at night on Saturday at an Anaheim. You can find Luke out in Baltimore. Luke, we’re doing our thing everywhere and anywhere. All of the pieces we’ve done all week are up, analyzing Cal Ripken coming in to save the day, analyzing David Rubenstein, analyzing Mike Elias. We do this every single day here. Appreciate all of you following the journey. I I just finding this thing falling off in this way and wondering this, the hitting coach thing we just took on for 15 minutes. It’s optics, right? I mean, it really is like that. Really takes the light off of Heston kerstat. It really takes the light off of Adley rutschman. It really takes the light off of how hurt was gunner Henderson, and where was he? How hurt was Adley rutschman last year. Where is he now? And also the general vibe of, there. Are they happy here? What could you know, what’s going to get them? Because it feels like a body language issue, and it feels like even when they’re laughing at each other and hitting the sprinkler and lorenas out there, you know, adjusting his crotch and they’re all laughing, it’s like losing is really, really contagious. I’ve seen this. It’s bad. It’s bad for young guys that have never experienced it, or only experienced it, right? I mean, or had a taste of success, like Cedric Mullins, where he seen the worst of the worst here. So is Mount castle. They remember Rio Ruiz and Dan strailey, and you know everything that went on here. But so does Brandon Hyde. You know what I mean? Like this is and, and, look, man, they get on the bus every night knowing the. Is not good enough. And that’s where I keep coming back to you and saying, well,
Luke Jones 25:03
then they should just give up. Then, you know, because if that’s their mindset, then, well,
Nestor Aparicio 25:08
they’re not going to do that. But also the optics of like, we’re going to just throw heads around here, there is a togetherness that you understand being around these sports teams about foxholes and who’s in and who’s out, and if Elias fires high then he becomes a guy who wasn’t loyal to his guy. Do I want to go work for him? I mean, that’s the way modern jobs work, right? Because it used to be George Steinbrenner and Peter Angelo’s pissing off people and getting people all riled up in the back page of The Daily News had to be the Yankees or the Mets. These places are run much more corporately and much more Rubenstein’s a billionaire. He really does sit at the top of this. Nothing’s going to happen without him. I mean, that’s where we are now. He’s going to, he’s going to get the phone call from you think Mike Elias runs the place. I mean, I’ll hear that, but if Michael is wants to fire Brandon Hyde, he got to sit and talk to Papa about that, and Papa’s gonna talk to the board about that, and it’s $2 billion now, like these people don’t operate like that dude. This is not Peter Angelo sort of Bender in the middle of the night on the phone with Peter schmuck or Tom Boswell. This is a different we’re in a different place here, and that guy doesn’t know anything about baseball. I promise you, the people around him know nothing about baseball. I don’t know if Katie Griggs knows anything about baseball. You know what I mean? Like, I really don’t know this or not. I don’t know what Mark fine knows about baseball. I don’t know what their sales guy, who came from the Falcons and flipped like, the only one around there that knows baseball is Mike Elias and Angelo’s always had, Rick Dempsey, Mike Flanagan, Jim Palmer, although I don’t think Palmer really relished that role. Brady Anderson wanted that role, got it and bought in. So like, I don’t know who there are no old ball players running around Rubenstein other than Cal, which is why Cal’s name gets brought up. And you and I and I got John maroon sat here in December saying, Cal is not doing 90 Cal’s not going to do Mike Elias job, nothing. I mean, just, it’s like the people calling me back in the 90s want Johnny united to be the offensive coordinator. It’s like, no, no, no, no, no, you know, like no, that’s not. You’re living in a cartoon. That’s not. That’s fantasy land. What’s reality is, they have a neophyte billionaire owner who expected more than this. He’s probably privately pissed off, right? I mean, I guess could he not? I would hope so.
Luke Jones 27:29
If he’s not, then, you know, okay, you know, enjoy your bobble head, but I hope
Nestor Aparicio 27:37
I don’t see him throwing freaking hats out there. Now they’re going to come back to an empty stadium the rest of the year. It’s going to be empty, other than when they have giveaways. Yes, yeah. I mean, that’s who they are. Katie dessert doesn’t know that she takes a job from Seattle. Comes here on a flyer, on a recruitment assignment to get an all star game, thinking she’s got a good baseball team. Now they all got to go get a shovel, and they’ve already shat upon me. I ain’t here to help them. I’m here to hold them responsible, which I would have been doing anyway, but they’re not good enough people for me to do that. So I don’t even know they. Don’t know anything any of these people. And we’re worried about the hitting coach, I’m worried about the thing going ass over 10 cups and like them complaining they’re not making any money. And this was a bad investment, because it probably was, and they have a deteriorating television network with ratings and sponsors buying in and people buying in and people coming downtown, and this level of expectation for this team amongst its own base, amongst its own Birdland insiders and people who buy it, I’m not. I’m an insider, but I’m an outsider. But the people that invested in this invested in the dream that there’s going to be a World Series and Adley rutschman’s A pile diver, they want somebody’s head. And I’m hearing you in this segment as saying that. I’m saying like I I don’t know what to expect. These are all new people. I remember what to expect last time, hell, last time. They never they only got good once or twice, even to talk about a season like this, like literally, so we didn’t have these discussions with the ownership was so awful and the bar was so low. Now the bar has been raised, and I don’t know where the floor is. I don’t know where the sky is. I mean, I’m disoriented in this because I don’t know who would hire the next baseball genius, because it probably ain’t David Rubenstein. And if the whole thing’s broken, we’re gonna hire a search firm to go get a baseball guy. Are they gonna get Cal Ripken? I mean, I don’t know. I mean, I really don’t know. The other guy was so screwy in all the thing, he went and got Mike Flanagan. And, you know, I mean, he went, he trusted who he trusted. Flanagan was ready to hire Eddie Murray to be the manager. I mean, like, and then they hired missilely. I mean, they made so many mistakes that this is a critical time. And if you don’t trust Mike Elias, and you don’t trust. Brandon Hyde, and you don’t trust the lieutenants that they brought in from Seattle, and you don’t trust your one ones and all of these golden eggs. I don’t even know who is going to be responsible for putting Humpty Dumpty back on the wall. I really don’t know. I mean, that goes for the business too. They hired a woman from Seattle that came in that doesn’t want to shake my hand. Like I don’t even know. I had to write a letter about getting a lot of feedback on that. But I’m like, I don’t even know what to say if you don’t want the people that are here to support the thing, and you think the people that and look dude at the top of all of this, if Rubenstein’s upset, and he’s a billionaire. He doesn’t know his dude. He doesn’t know his ass from his elbow. He made a bobble head two weeks ago. Nobody talked him out of it. He thought it was a good idea, terrible, like, I haven’t met anybody that thinks that’s a good idea. That, being said, he owns it. He’s invested in it. If he’s pissed and wants to make changes, he will. I don’t think he’s going to be like George Steinbrenner, I think he’ll trust what somebody else says about getting a baseball guy in here. But I don’t know that that makes it any better either, because I’m with you, dude, they can’t change the players. They just can’t the players are gonna play and until they get hurt. And that’s that’s what should be troublesome here, is that if you don’t trust the baseball guy, and you’re Rubenstein and arrogy, and I shook that guy’s hand. I mean, Lord knows, I don’t I have no idea. But, like, if those guys are pissed and they wanted to flow down the factory in their line of business that made them billionaires, because they all know more than anybody, ask them, all of them, that kind of change would be without done, without any expertise. You know what I mean? Like it used to be like it was for a long time. And what concerns me is everyone has to answer for this. Katie Griggs made promises about how much money they were going to make. The guy they brought in from Atlanta made promises about what he was going to sell in suites and what they were going to do. That’s the money side. And I’ve watched everybody play cya on that forever. Everybody’s covering their ass forever on all that. Greg baders Trying to keep his job, keep the network running, get the ads running, get the royal farms money, like all of that, and if it was all predicated on the baseball being good and it and it’s just not you and I as experts, you as an insider, me as an outsider, can look at all of this and say, Who’s going to fix it? Who’s the genius? And that’s what I’ve been asking all along, because at heart, at heart, if you’re a billionaire and you bought this and it’s effed up, and all you’re doing is reading spreadsheets and memos, and like the Whistler, is reading inter office memos, because you don’t aim at baseball. None of them know anything about baseball. So if that’s where they are, they look at the standings, they look at the seats, they look at the results. They say, We’re billionaires, we’ll find, we’ll find another genius. Let’s, let’s have a hiring search because, because, like, Elias is John Angelos guy. They’re all John Angelos guys. This is a disaster inside with cover your ass and pointing fingers and like we’re on the radio talking about it, like the pitch, the hitting coach, the pitching coach, the players, like all of that, I think, at an executive level, for the amount of debt they have, for where they are financially, for what they’re trying to do with rolling out what they’re going to do with the left field bleachers, and how they’re going to fix things and how they’re going to make everything better. That’s really hard to do when you’re 20 games under 500 it really is. And that’s I never thought they would be in this position, and I don’t, I’m starting to question who’s really going to make big decisions. Because I I don’t think David Rubenstein came in to do that, I don’t think Cal Ripken came in to do that, and I think they’ve been put his figureheads to do that, and Elias is John Angelos guy. And when it goes bad at a company like this, and you’re the other guy’s guy, it becomes very, very easy to say, I’m smarter than this,
Luke Jones 34:04
fair enough. And look, I mean a lot of what you said, as far as him being John Angelos guy, they’ve kept plenty of other John Angelo’s people in the organization. So I don’t know if that matters that much to them, to be honest, however I want again, there’s plenty of time for that. They’re not, they’re not, nor should they even be thinking about firing Mike Elias when it’s May the eighth. Right now, if this team loses 105 games, and you have conversations with the man who’s running baseball ops, if you’re the the ownership group, and you start to have significant doubts, I think you know. And let me be clear, I would not at all advocate firing Mike Elias. I would give him at least another year. But I need to see what this looks like. I need to see how you’re pivoting. I need to see how you’re fully recognizing that this isn’t the rebuild phase anymore. Like you need to be a big boy in terms of like. Uh, building a contender and shaping a contender, and pivoting and making difficult decisions, what I’m presenting, you know, and again, the hitting coaches that that’s an entry level kind of move to make, right? That that roster moves like, you know, if you DFA, Jorge Mateo, right? Uh, not that I think Jorge Mateo. I mean, Jorge Mateo barely plays, but you know, if you’re dfing him, you know, Charlie Morton would be a next level up because he’s $15 million but the $15 million is spent either way, right? So, but you either have moves like that, or you have making changes to your coaching staff. And like I said, even if you want to do it in a cop out way, and you don’t want to embarrass Cody as she or Tommy Joseph or Sherman Johnson, then you bring someone in and you make up another title. Because we all know that baseball has so many different titles for all these different coaches now. I mean, it’s really the football mentality that’s that’s trickled into baseball with how many coaches they have. But I mean to me, I mean a team like the ravens, and it’s a different sport, but obviously has an infrastructure say what you want about anything from a personal standpoint. But what they’ve done football wise, has been very, very successful. They’ve fired position coaches and coordinators on the regular so if you’re Mike Elias, and you’re sitting here and you say, Oh, well, we can’t fire our hitting coaches, then okay, if they’re so good, then why aren’t they getting any results? Right? Because you’ve told us that these, all these players, are so young players are so promising and talented, and we’ve all believed that, and in some cases, we’ve seen them be that. You know, Gunner Henderson has looked like an MVP candidate at his best. Abby rutchman, even though it’s been quite a while now, has looked like a fringe MVP candidate when he’s been at his very best. Jordan westburg has been an all star. You know, go down the list as far as these guys and how promising they are. So,
Nestor Aparicio 36:56
so you blame the hitting coaches, and you say, say, well, Mullins is getting it. Rhino hurts get it. Look at what we did for holiday. But we can always add takes the COVID.
Luke Jones 37:04
We can always do this thing. Well, it’s something else. It’s something else. And you know what happens? Then, when you do that, nothing, nothing gets better. So if that is the mentality, then, yeah, I have major concerns about Mike Elias in the direction of this baseball operations, sometimes you got to break some eggs, right? Well, we’re going to find out,
Nestor Aparicio 37:21
right? I mean, this is because when you’re winning, it’s all Wine and Roses and chocolate, right? I mean, literally, now we’re going to find out what kind of owner, Mr. Rubenstein is patient, you know, he’s my guy. He’s not John Angelos guy or Mike Elias. And say, Brandon Hyde, I’m not firing my guy. 10 games under 500 May. I’m not doing it. That’s my guy. You know that I’m sticking with, you know, like I said, Tammy last week in the Ravens released Tucker on Monday. So you want me to sing some Tammy Wynette, but you know who’s going to stand by who and who believes in what? And we’re going to find that out, because they are absolutely under duress right now. They are. They are on fire. The whole thing’s on fire from the business level, from the baseball ops, from ownership, to your point. I hope David Rubenstein’s pissed. I don’t know he’s a billionaire. I mean, it’s like watching bashati Laughing hardball and saying, you know, it’s live or die for you. It’s not for me. You know what? I mean, I’m a billionaire. I mean, it’s a toy for Rubenstein, he’s got a bobble head.
Luke Jones 38:20
And again, for me, it’s not even at a point where he needs to step in. But I agree with you. I’m not saying that’s the last thing I want to see, because, again, I don’t think we’re at that point with Mike Elias. But that’s not to say that I’m not down on everything that, I mean, I’m down on the entire operation at this point in time, front office, player development. But because, you know, we see these guys thrive in the minor leagues, and they get to the majors, and, you know, some are continuing to look like, you know, it’s been a very small sample. Let me be
Nestor Aparicio 38:51
clear. Knows, I’m upset with the communications department, but, you know, but
Luke Jones 38:55
COVID Mayo, you know, it’s a very small sample. Again, has looked like he doesn’t belong. He’s in over his head. But for that, how can he
Nestor Aparicio 39:03
look like he’s in over his head? He’s, he’s king calling the triple A. You know what I mean? Right? This, this is an instruction thing, and that’s,
Luke Jones 39:13
that’s where I that’s where I start to wonder, not that your player development is broken beyond repair or has no redeeming value whatsoever, far from it. But are you missing something? Did, did oppose, and I’m not smart enough to figure this out, because I’m, you know, I’m not a major league scout or executive, but this team was thriving, absolutely thriving, offensively, through the first three months last year, and then it changed. Now it had it wasn’t as bad as it’s been this year the entire final three months of the season, but was there an adjustment? Was there something that teams figured out about what makes the Orioles tick offensively, that teams have figured out and the Orioles have had no answer for? Answering back to that right? I don’t know
Nestor Aparicio 40:01
what the record is, but Jordan Westberg in the lineup, without him like I want to look that one up. That’s
Luke Jones 40:06
and look, and that’s, if you’re looking for any semblance of hope right now, it is that there is some help coming back. Do I think that Zach Eflin, Jordan Westberg and Tyler O’Neal are going to and Andrew Kittredge should be back in the next week or two. Should I would say back? He’ll debut after having knee surgery in the spring. And you know, he was the Orioles prize bullpen acquisition. You know, those guys should help. Does that mean it’s going to save their season? They’re already nine games under 500 and they and headed toward a dozen very, very much, very much have pitching deficiencies that even on paper, I just don’t see it getting that much better. I think it can get better, but I don’t think it’s a very high ceiling for one. It’s not just the poor performance the pitching and I saw the athletic did a piece on this, just looking at numbers from the first six weeks of the season. They have a stuff issue too. Their pitching isn’t very talented, and that’s, you know, you keep harping on you’ve, you know, as our little Abbott and Costello routine here, in a way that doesn’t make anyone laugh, makes you want to cry, but makes me laugh, you make me laugh, but, but there’s not a whole lot of upside to their pitching. There just isn’t, I mean, who on their staff right now that’s healthy has much upside, Felix Batista, couple other bullpen arms,
Nestor Aparicio 41:28
Eflin efflin comes back. That’s not
Luke Jones 41:33
like an upside guy in the sense that, like, oh my gosh, he’s going to be, you know, EFF is what he is, right?
Nestor Aparicio 41:40
Yeah, what you’re asking is they’re going to play games next April, who’s on the team next April, and their pitchers, and even if the bats wake up, who are their pitchers? Right? Like, literally, but, but
Luke Jones 41:50
on the offensive side, they’re supposed to be all this upside, and yet we’re not seeing it. So that’s again, that’s where I keep I’m pointing to the hitting coaches. I’m pointing to the manager. I’m pointing to your player development, behind the scenes, your analysts, your advanced scouting. What is going on here? These guys are I don’t expect the pitching to be good. I expected the pitching to be below average, and boy, has it been that big time. But no one expected the offense to be this. And I get it. Jordan westburg Missed time. Colton cows missed time. But as I pointed out to you, in that Tuesday lineup, you go top to bottom, one through nine. Dylan Carlson was really the only guy there where you’d look at that and say, Oh, well, things clearly aren’t going the way they want them to, because he’s in the lineup. Everyone else was either a starter or someone that you have been waiting to kind of kick the door open and say, Hey, make a spot for me. You know, Heston, kerstag, COVID, Mayo, etc. And yet, we’ve seen a team now that scored three or fewer runs in 12 of the last 15 games. They’ve gone four and 11 over that stretch, and they’ve now scored two or less 14 times this season. They’re scoring two or fewer runs in 40% of their games this year. I mean, that’s a that’s a bad offense, period. That’s not underwhelming. Underwhelming is kind of in the, the nice way that we’ve described this. Their offense has been poor. And you can’t fire all the young, the young position core, you know, the core players. So, yeah, I am looking at
Nestor Aparicio 43:24
the lineup up, and it’s, you know, it’s like the left thing. Them just getting their ass kicked by left handers is unbelievable.
Luke Jones 43:32
And the numbers with runners in scoring position. And look, I’m not saying this is all Cody Ashley’s fault at the same time. I don’t think Cody Ashley is the next Charlie Lau, and if someone wants to say that you need you need to make a change with Brandon Hyde. I don’t think Brandon Hyde is the next Tony La Russa or Tommy Lasorda or Earl Weaver, right? So if you can’t even make those kind of decisions, if something needs to be something needs to change to try to salvage this 2025 season that people are going to end up losing their job anyway, if you end up just playing out the string and things don’t get better, you know, if you can’t even make those decisions, if you’re Mike Elias, then, yeah, I do question if you’re going to be able to pivot and make bigger changes that might need to be made here in terms of getting this team back on track. Because, you know, where this team’s gone over the last calendar year is very, very, very concerning. That’s the captain obvious statement, that even if we don’t know the answers, we certainly know The problem we’ve identified, that that this thing is going in a really bad direction.
Nestor Aparicio 44:30
What did Roddy Piper say? Change the you get the answers. I changed when you think you have all the answers. I change the question I get a little, little Piper spit there, like that little old school nasty Nestor for you. Had a great time over at red brick station on Wednesday with my friend Bill blocker. Had a beer, had a crab cake. He brought me this sandwich. It was as big as my head, and also sent me home with some sandwiches. Our friends at the Maryland lottery said, this afternoon, the Maryland crab cake tour, we’re going to be next weekend out in Las Vegas, at the pool, at the Encore, with a big. Leadership thing. You can look it up. It’s called the Maryland party.com my pal Howard perlo just literally did the show last week. Invited me to do the show out there, so I’m gonna sit poolside sipping champagne, actually, probably just be hydrating with water out there with Sammy Hagar, maybe little tequila. Who knows. We’ll be out in Vegas next week doing the Maryland crab cake tour, and then we’ll be back for faith leaves on the 28th the Cardinals are in town. I don’t I just thought it’d be fun to be there. And there’s OTAs with the Ravens later on in the month, before we get to Memorial Day as well. And then on the seventh of June, we’re gonna be back up at Green mount station in Hampstead, beautiful Carroll County, God’s country, as we say. It’s delicious crab cake up there. I might even, might even go next door and bowl a few frames, because I like doing that at Green Mountain bowl. Luke will be around all weekend. We’ll be up late, up all night, like the Boomtown Rats, Saturday, Friday and Saturday night with the Orioles in Anaheim, California. Orioles, circling the drain, had some good guests around here, Baltimore positive. I wish the baseball stuff was a little bit more inspiring and a little bit more uplifting. It’s not, but we keep watching. I’m Nestor. He’s Luke. We are wnst. Am 1570 Towson, Baltimore. We never stop talking. Baltimore. Positive, you.
